Today’s guest is the writer Mary Gaitskill, whose novels and short stories have been adapted into motion pictures and nominated for major literary prizes like the PEN/Faulkner award, the National Book Award, and the National Critics Circle Award, and if you’ve read any of them, you know why, you know how her characters make you feel seen, for all the cruelty and strength and fragility and beauty and ugliness you possess, how they remain alive within you long after you turn the last page, and change the way you move through the world. We first met when she interviewed me for it, actually, to talk about incels — with whom she feels a kinship for many reasons that we get into today... ———————————————————————"Hallelujah" (cover) performed by Jeff Buckley. 1994. Courtesy of Columbia Records. ——————————————————————— Read Mary's brilliant essays from "Out of It": https://marygaitskill.substack.com/ and listen to our first interview if you missed it: https://marygaitskill.substack.com/p/only-the-lonely ——————————————————————— Please check out my Patreon channel for bonus content, newsletters, community, and early, ad-free episodes on www.patreon.com/naamakates ——————————————————————— INCEL is created and produced by Naama Kates for Crawlspace Media. Music by Cyrus Melchor. —————————————————————— If you or someone you know is struggling emotionally, or having a hard time, please call someone, or contact one of the excellent resources provided below. —————————————————————— Suicide Prevention Lifeline w: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ t: 1.800.273.8255 —————————————————————— Samaritans Website: https://www.samaritans.org and telephone (UK): 116.123 —————————————————————— Please contact Naama at INCEL with any comments, inquiries, or just random thoughts: e: [email protected]