Billy Innes, Chris Burkeybyle aka Burkey, and Joe Holmes join us the day after the February 2020 symposium and the conversation starts with a bang, "When does the practice of sport become counter-productive? When does it go so far that fitness becomes injury?" We examine the concept of play being different than competition, and that it is the competitive aspect and the demands of being better than someone else which make one more susceptible to injury. The conversation also explores various uses of the mirror, and the accuracy (or not) of the reflections seen by different subjects. Around 30 minutes in Burkey asks, "What happens to a fist when you open your hand? A fist is not a thing it's an action ... but it's also a thing. (Then) Are we trying to be an action or are we trying to be a result?" Take the deep dive with us.