This is a conversation with a money manager in Scotland who has given a great deal of thought to why many of us feel confused and ashamed about our financial lives.

After the What Class are You? shows, I often receive interesting commentary, and I’m always frustrated that this commentary can’t become part of a wider conversation. So after receiving two fascinating comments from EM in Scotland, I asked her if she’d be willing to share some of her thoughts on the economy on the phone. She said yes, and then we had a conversation longer than she ever could have imagined.

EM responded primarily to two shows. One featured a woman called Trudy, who worked all kinds of jobs in her life, and toward the end of her working years, she realized that she was not going to have enough money for a comfortable retirement, but she would have a little too much to qualify for services that would make her retirement more comfortable, so she made sure that she retired with little enough money that she could qualify for services. The other story that EM responded to was about Kaye, who talks about how not having money makes her feel like a child, and that all the people with money seem like the adults.

Fair warning, I ask a lot of dumb questions in this show, because I don’t know much about the economy. But I’m figuring that maybe there are some people out there like me. And even though I don't know much about economics, most of what she says here has deep resonance. She is naming something I feel but don’t understand.