After The Tones Drop

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In this deeply personal episode, host Cinnamon is joined by her friend and colleague, Lieutenant Kenny Schroeder, to explore the profound impact of losing someone to suicide within the first responder community. Together, they share their intertwined stories of grief, vulnerability, and the emotional aftermath of Cinnamon losing a client and friend.

Cinnamon opens up about the self-doubt, guilt, and questions that haunted her after her client’s death, while Kenny offers the perspective of a peer supporter and witness to her pain. Their candid conversation breaks down the myth that helpers are immune to grief, and highlights the importance of support, compassion, and honest dialogue in the healing process.

Listeners will hear about the ripple effects of suicide, the challenges of carrying on in the face of loss, and the lessons learned about letting go of blame and embracing humanity. This episode is a powerful reminder that no one is alone in their struggles, and that hope and healing are possible—even in the darkest moments.

Trigger Warning: This episode discusses suicide and its emotional impact. Please take care while listening, and reach out for support if needed.

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

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What if the very traits that helped you survive your childhood, your career, and your trauma are now the same traits keeping you lonely, exhausted, or shut down?

In Episode 133, I sit down with Jimmy Portner and Dr. Nate Tomcik — founders of Radically Open Connections — for a powerful conversation about RO-DBT, the therapy model designed specifically for people who are too controlled. The perfectionists. The high achievers. The rule-followers. The leaders. The “I’m fine” responders. The people who hold it all together on the outside while quietly burning out on the inside.

Jimmy and Dr. Nate break down the real difference between standard DBT and RO-DBT, and why so many first responders and veterans fall into the over-controlled category. More importantly, they explain how RO-DBT helps people open up, reconnect, and rebuild the parts of themselves that got buried under duty, discipline, and decades of holding it all in.

We get into:

• Why emotional over-control leads to loneliness, depression, rigidity, and burnout
• How RO-DBT uses social signaling to shift the nervous system out of threat mode
• The “Big Three + One” — the small body-language cues that increase connection
• Why vulnerability, curiosity, and openness are learned skills, not personality traits
• How group work creates a sense of tribe and breaks lifelong patterns of isolation
• How this model is transforming mental health for first responders, military members, and high performers
• What “flexible control” looks like in real life — and why it feels so uncomfortable at first

Jimmy and Nate also share practical tools you can start using today, whether you’re a clinician, a responder, or someone trying to repair old relationship patterns.

If you’ve ever been told you’re “too serious,” “too rigid,” “too independent,” or “hard to read”… this episode will feel like turning on a light switch.

If you’ve ever struggled to let people in or admit you’re hurting… this episode is for you.

If you’re tired of surviving by shutting down… this episode might change the way you understand yourself forever.

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

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This week I sit down with Chicago Police Officer Carrie Matthews for one of the most honest and needed conversations we have ever had on this show. Carrie talks about living on both sides of suicide. She is a cop, and she is the daughter of an officer who died by suicide. Her story is raw, human, and filled with the kind of truth that too many first responders are carrying in silence.

Together, we talk about the load you carry that no one sees, the pressure to stay strong, and the way humor becomes a survival skill. We talk about what real courage looks like and how to ask for help before you reach the point of collapse. And we talk about the simple power of checking in and really listening to each other.

If you have ever lost someone, struggled in the dark, or felt like you had to hold it all together alone, this conversation is for you. You are not alone. You matter. And your story is not over.

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

Send us Fan Mail

In this powerful episode, Cinnamon sits down with David Dachinger, a retired fire lieutenant, Grammy-nominated music producer, cancer survivor, and mental wellness advocate to explore the intersection of trauma, healing, and transformation in the first responder world.

From a stage-IV cancer diagnosis that changed his life’s direction to his groundbreaking work with Responder Resilience, Igniting the Shift Within, and the nonprofit 22Zero, David’s story is a masterclass in post-traumatic growth.

Together, they discuss how mindfulness, movement, and gratitude can become lifelines for those on the frontlines, and how simple tools can rewire how trauma is processed (without having to relive the pain). This episode offers practical insight, heartfelt honesty, and hope for anyone walking through their own healing journey.

🎧 Tune in to hear how David is helping responders reclaim their peace, refile their memories, and remember that healing is possible.

Learn more about David’s work:

• Responder Resilience Podcast: respondertv.com
  
  
• Igniting the Shift Within Podcast: podpage.com/igniting
  
  
• 22Zero Peer Coaching Program: 22Zero.org
  
  
• Book: Helping the Helpers
  
  
• LinkedIn: David Dachinger

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

Send us Fan Mail

Episode 130: Out of the Warzone and Into the Water — Gage Hall on Stoke Therapy, Joy, and Healing in Motion

What happens when the battlefield follows you home?
 In this powerful conversation, Cinnamon sits down with Gage Hall—Army veteran, firefighter, EMT, and founder of Stoke Therapy—to explore what real healing looks like when traditional therapy isn’t enough.

After years of combat service and the invisible wounds that came with it, Gage discovered that healing doesn’t always happen in an office. It happens in motion—on the water, on the trail, and surrounded by people who understand.

Stoke Therapy blends adventure sports, nature, and mental health principles to help first responders and veterans rediscover joy, connection, and purpose. Gage shares how the ocean became his therapist, why community matters more than perfection, and how play can be one of the most powerful medicines we have.

This isn’t just a story about surviving trauma—it’s about rewriting what recovery can look like.

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

Send us Fan Mail

Episode 129: Rick Markley on CRACKYL Magazine, Wellness, and Why Every Firefighter Should Register for the NIOSH Cancer Registry

Rick Markley doesn't just talk about firefighter wellness—he's building the infrastructure to support it. As Executive Editor at CRACKYL Magazine and a volunteer firefighter himself, Rick brings a unique perspective on what it really takes to thrive in the fire service.

In this episode, we're cutting through the noise and talking about things that actually matter: the National Firefighter Registry for Cancer (and why you need to register even if you're healthy), the power of meditation for Type-A personalities, and why CRACKYL Magazine is changing the conversation around first responder health.

This isn't your typical "drink water and stretch" wellness talk. We're diving deep into the science behind cancer prevention, the data that could save your life, and practical strategies for mental and physical resilience that you can implement today.

What You'll Learn:

• Why the NIOSH Cancer Registry needs YOUR data (diagnosis not required)
• How CRACKYL Magazine approaches whole-person wellness for first responders
• Meditation techniques that actually work for busy, stressed-out minds
• Why volunteering is one of the most powerful mental health tools available
• The truth about alcohol, sleep, and long-term health outcomes

Key Takeaway: Your participation in the NFR matters. Whether you've been diagnosed with cancer or not, registering takes 15 minutes and could change the future of firefighter health forever. Register at nfr.cdc.gov.

Rick Markley is the real deal—a journalist, firefighter, and advocate who's using his platform to make the fire service healthier, stronger, and more sustainable. This conversation will challenge you, inspire you, and give you actionable steps to take control of your wellness.

Stop surviving. Start thriving.

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

Send us Fan Mail

Episode 128: From Burnout to Breakthrough — How Kory Pearn Built CRACKYL Magazine and a New Model for Firefighter Wellness

When passion becomes overdrive, the crash can be devastating. In this episode, Cinnamon sits down with firefighter, captain, and CRACKYL magazine founder Kory Pearn, who shares his story of burnout, recovery, and rebuilding from the inside out.

Kory opens up about the moment his body forced him to stop, how he redefined strength through boundaries, and why real resilience starts before crisis hits. Together, they talk about the slow boil of stress in public safety, the cost of self-neglect, and how CRACKYL is changing the conversation about firefighter wellness—one honest story at a time.

If you’ve ever given too much of yourself to the job (or to anyone), this episode will hit home.
 🎧 Listen now: afterthetonesdrop.co/kory-pearn

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

Send us Fan Mail

In this powerful episode of After the Tones Drop, Cinnamon sits down with retired NYPD detective Tom Smith. Tom is a man who’s lived through the kind of calls most of us only read about. From growing up as the son of an NYPD cop to spending 30 years in service and leading on the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force, Tom’s story is a masterclass in resilience, leadership, and the next chapter after the badge.

Together, they talk about breaking the stigma around mental health in policing, the culture shift happening inside law enforcement, and why storytelling has become one of the most powerful tools for healing.

Tom also shares how his podcast, The Gold Shields Show, is giving detectives, veterans, and first responders a platform to speak their truth, and how conversations like these can change lives.

If you’ve ever wondered what happens when the mission changes but the heart to serve doesn’t, then this one’s for you.

https://www.afterthetonesdrop.co/tom-smith

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

Send us Fan Mail

Let’s not pretend. Leading is hard! Especially when you’re carrying your own scars. In this episode, I sit down with Matt Davis, a law enforcement leader and former crisis negotiator who’s walked through the fire and lived to talk about it.

We get honest about mental health in law enforcement. The kind that sneaks up on you, fills your bucket drop by drop, until you’re drowning and nobody else can see it. Matt doesn’t sugarcoat his story. He talks about asking for help before hitting rock bottom, the messiness of relationships, and what it’s like to feel like an imposter even when everyone else thinks you’ve got it together.

We talk boundaries. The kind you set for yourself, not to keep people out, but to keep yourself whole. We talk about leadership that’s more than rules and rank. We talk about leadership that’s about showing up, being real, and building trust, even when it’s uncomfortable.

This is a conversation about the real work: facing your own pain, owning your story, and finding the courage to lead yourself first. Matt shares what he’s learned from crisis negotiation, from heartbreak, and from rebuilding his life one honest conversation at a time.

Let’s talk about what it means to lead the brave way.

No bullshit. Just truth, heart, and hope.

Connect With Matt Davis on Linked In HERE

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

Send us Fan Mail

Healing isn’t some mysterious thing that happens “out there”; it’s built into who you are. In this solo episode, I talk about what I call The Stitcher: the part I play and how our body is always working to repair, reset, and bring us back to balance.

From my first set of stitches as a kid to the way our nervous system cries, sighs, and sleeps to restore itself, I share how healing shows up in everyday life—and why sometimes we need a little help bringing the edges together. Therapy, support, and even tools like ART don’t “fix” us. They create the conditions for our bodies and brains to do the healing they’re already wired for.

You are not broken... just wounded. And with the right support, you can mend.

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE