Mark and Kenny continue the Season of the Bitch w/ this bratty lost demo from the Rebel Heart era.  Topics include Natalia Kills, Rosalind Shays, STDs, Anne Sexton, Brahim Zaibat, Nicole Winhoffer, the allure of vindictive cleverness, hooking up in a sauna, knowledge as power, Orville Peck, Khloe Kardashian’s podcast, Paul Mescal, French theatergoers and Tennessee Williams, not applauding Cate Blanchett, karmic betrayal, Mark’s neighbor Florinda, and whether or not there is a ‘no fraternization’ policy in the Inner Circle.  Plus, Kenny has a bathroom emergency at BAM and Mark calls out a basic bitch in the audience at AStreetcar Named Desire.  “This is a special time.”

f you want more Shadow Season Episodes, join the Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/c/alliwant2doistalkaboutmadonna

Mark and Kenny get their Reggaeton swagger going to discuss the sassy shoulda-been-a-single from Rebel Heart.  Topics include Toby Gad, Garcia & Teenwolf, the primal urge to get up and go out post-break-up, Justin Bieber, ex-boyfriend group texts, shooting weekends with Guy Ritchie, Kieran Culkin, The Weekend, tsunami alarms, Bette Davis, James Baldwin, and a surprise encounter with a favorite bitch (and pioneer) … TINA!  Plus, a detour into that deranged Bond tribute at the 2025 Academy Awards and Mark writes a fan letter to his spirit animal Stockard Channing ahead of his trip back to the UK. 

Kenny and Mark celebrate the return of the power ballad with Boy Culture himself (and author of the essential Encyclopedia Madonnica) Matthew Rettenmund!  Topics include: nepo babies, Celine Dion, potential cover albums, illegal downloads, the value of spite, Jason Derulo, My Two Dads, vocal “edging”, lyrical warnings and promises, bringing a golf club to an apocalypse, Stevie Nicks, Terrence Howard, Ariana Grande, mature dance breaks, resistant industry tides, Taylor Swift, the Ellen residency, Andy Cohen and Sandra Bernhard, and Matt makes a strong case for Rebel Heart as the ultimate embarrassment of riches.  Plus, Matt shares the inspiration behind Encyclopedia Madonnica, his evolving embrace (and flexibility) of the fandom ride, rejecting the binge mentality, and another encounter with the legendary (and witty) Liz Rosenberg.  “I don’t want to focus on the hair."

Matthew Rettenmund’s BoyCulture website & blog

Mark and Kenny break out the guitars, the oracles (and the glue) to examine the folky, funky - even freaky - second track on Rebel Heart.  Topics include the arrival of Aviccii, the Animals’ “House of the Rising Sun”, The Rake and Appalachian folk tunes becoming global anthems, the Madonna rhythm, walking as inspiration, getting high, karaoke voice memos, Emily Witt, higher consciousness, rubber cement, lecturing and hectoring, and protection from the Devil.  Plus, Kenny and Mark take mushrooms “We can get STONED!”

And on the "shadow season” HEART REBEL - a lost protest song that hints at the direction the album really could have taken.  Join the Patreon to listen! https://www.patreon.com/c/alliwant2doistalkaboutmadonna

Kenny and Mark welcome Billboard Magazine’s Keith Caulfield (co-host of the Billboard Pop Shop podcast) to discuss the vibrant - yet troublesome - first song and lead single from Rebel Heart.  Topics include THE LEAK and technology foibles, demos on hard drives, launching a “leak lead” hotline, multiple album versions (and covers), Sebastien Tellier, unending teasers, unusual suspects, the power of pivoting and musical chaos, Jonathan Ross, Prince, the endless curiosity of Diplo, Mozella, Sky Ferreira,“Where are the stems?”, bringing in the gospel choir at the Grammy Awards, THE FALL (or “The Yank”) at the Brit Awards, the Nietzsche quote, Megan Lawson, Danny Tull, JACK, diamond encrusted bull horns and fussy matadors, and the subtle nods to nostalgia.  Plus, Kenny converses with Chat GPT and Keith helps Madonna find her light and reminds her of “Rescue Me”!  Mark, Kenny, and Keith trades Liz Rosenberg “The Validator” stories, Guy Oseary meet-ups, and podcast best-practices and music industry dish.  AND in 2015, Mark and Kenny meet … for the very first time.  Love’s gonna lift us up!

Please join us on the Patreon for our “shadow season” - discussing the lost demo tracks from the Rebel Heart sessions - in conversation with this season.  It’s messy and magical, y’all - just like REBEL HEART.  XO

Mark and Kenny begin Season Seven: Defending the Crown with a detailed discussion of Madonna’s most politically urgent (and last - for now!) film project, in collaboration with Steven Klein as well as the debut of a now oft-covered Elliott Smith song.  Topics include channeling the source and upping security, Instagram, VICE and BitTorrent, cutting edge lingerie, Danny Tull, troublesome rollouts and surprise drops, the illusions of the mid-2010s, the Daddy Syndrome, Jean-Luc Goddard, The Night Porter, David Lynch’s influences, rebirth and performance, Anne Sexton, Ariana Grande, the Gagosian Gallery, Rocco Ritchie, Anderson Cooper and the GLAAD Awards, the importance of props, Amnesty International, Pussy Riot and the continuing struggle and fight to protect human rights and the freedom of speech - globally.  Madonna’s in the kitchen getting dragged across the floor and getting sued for one million dollars!  Thank you - as always - for listening.  We are so excited to be resuming our conversations with each and every one of you.  It’s a Revolution of Love! 

Join Kenny and Mark for an ultra-thick FOUR HOUR conversation about the Mount L’Olympia of Madonna tours - 2012’s MDNA Tour.  Topics include the legacy of Christopher Ciccone, trading recipes, the first selection for the Alain Delon Film Club, new faces on tour, fighting (already) with Interscope, transgression, FREEDOM, Australia, Zoey Bartlett and The West Wing, cosplay, the return of the Pussy Posse, priests under beds, the perfect hotel room for $45, a polarizing “Hung Up” and “Like a Prayer”, Baby Jesus on Sixth Avenue, “Born This Way”, batons, unshackling one’s self from old ideas, Ryan Murphy’s inspiration, George Michael, Miley Cyrus, masturbation, gas masks, slavery, zip lines, trust falls, Yankee Stadium, a goth Monte Pittman, David Crosby’s benefit, the evolution of gender-bending, Mark’s obsession with drummers, Wilco, Madonna as PTA President, the Williamsburg in Virginia, Kevin Antunes, harmonizing with the Kalakan trio, the Golden Triangle bitches, Kenny’s thwarted trip to Dallas, lip-syncing to “Justify My Love”, plastic surgery, musical checking of the box, the return of Gus: Floor Mopper, Joan Ciccone, the lackluster Nicki Richards, the blend-able Kiley Dean, the fickleness of the Generation Gap, the waste of a social media nude, keeping your finger on the zeitgeist, and whether it’s better to show your ass or show your feelings.  Plus, a comping through of all that bootleg pre-show rehearsal footage from around the world and Madonna makes a run for the car!  As Season Six: BUSINESS, WOMAN (2010-2012) wraps, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU to every single listener to the show - and to Madonna herself for keeping Mark and Kenny on their toes.  “This is a song about LOVE!”

Mark and Kenny decode the restlessly bold and confessional final track on the deluxe edition of MDNA.  Topics include the final return of the Benassi Brothers, the slender difference between friendship and romantic love, Sheridan Smith, Alex Rodriguez, the vocal pushing away and the pulling in, the specters of 2012, confessions and celebrations, lyrical bread crumbs and evolutions, Bjork’s “Hunter”, and we phone a friend and reach mega-listener Vernon to discuss his special connections with this song, and who was ultimately Madonna’s most successful relationship.  Plus, Kenny blows his Madonna narrative up into epic proportions, a tribute to the long-suffering significant others of Madonna fans, and an extra special announcement to share at the top of the episode - does it really have to end?

Kenny and Mark light some candles to celebrate one of the most frequently-streamed song in the Madonna canon - and the return of M.I.A.!   Should MDNA have had THIRTEEN official album tracks?  Topics include: M.I.A.’s “Come Walk With Me”, the joys of silliness, Sixties Mod-sters, The Beatles, secret final tracks, Stevie Wonder and the other anthemic birthday songs.  Plus, Mark works at Chi-Chi’s and Tina makes a brief (and topless) cameo!!

Mark and Kenny bust out their decoder rings to interpret the diaristic lyrics on this bonus track from MDNA and fight over what constitutes a “bonus track.”  Topics include swimming pools, Madonna’s art collection, Rocco’s canvases, Madonna going hiking, lyrical exorcisms, fantasy roads not taken, potential duets, and whether or not we can forgive (and forget).  Plus, Kenny introduces a new catch phrase into the conversation, and Mark offers to join Shawn Mendes in performing their break-up song at Madison Square Garden.  And who’s still sending email?