An Equine Conversation

I’m excited to introduce our next topic & guest on our Special Edition Season of An Equine Conversation, focusing on ‘What Else Is There?’ besides riding.

I suspect some of your will be familiar with the work of Maja Bagdziun. Maja shares a heap of beautiful, inspiring training videos through her Facebook page: Hear Your Horse Whisper - science based information and education and two Facebook groups: Enrichment for Horses and No Drama Pony Training.

Once again, An Equine Conversation is giving me an excuse to speak to yet another individual who’s work I have been admiring for some time. I find Maja’s training lovely to watch, very creative and inspiring, using the environment she has to work with and a bunch of lateral thinking.

I love enrichment as something we can do with our equine’s that has loads of benefits and is a pretty easy and can be very cost-effective activity. I know how much I enjoy working with my herd on different enrichment activities & I wanted to share this with you. I know that Maja too is passionate about using enrichment as part of her ponies lives… and I imagine too for her new goat additions – you’ll have to watch her Facebook spaces to see more of goat training fun as well.

I strongly suspect that some of you are already using enrichment with your equines, whether you give it that label or not, and those who aren’t will likely be heading outside to play after listening to this episode.

I’ll stop here and introduce Maja and let her tell us a heap more.

Maja Bagdziun:

Maja is an animal lover who has committed time to explore behavioural science, ethology, cognition, affective neuroscience (emotions), calming signals and enrichment in dogs and horses. She uses an evidence based approach to work with animals and positive reinforcement is her main tool of interaction and training. 

Having had graduated with Educational Psychology she has the academic background that helps her to understand how not just humans but also animals learn.

She's passionate about modern horse training that  incorporates cognition, emotion, ethology, biology and attachment theory which allows her to consider an animal in front of her in a holistic way.

She's passionate about sharing her knowledge and skills with the others and runs a Facebook Page and Groups that are dedicated to education, science based training and interactions with horses as well as providing everyday enrichment ideas to help make horses lives better.

‘Enrichment For Horses’ Facebook group:

Maja set up her Enrichment for Horses group in 2019 with the original aim to share her own experience of exposing her rescue ponies to enrichment items to  stimulate their natural SEEKING system, curiosity and cognitive skills. 

She started off with introducing a novel item each day but quickly learned that this was not an appropriate approach for her rescue pony Charisma who needed predictability and consistency to learn to trust the humans and his new environment. This lead Maja to abandon the original idea of introducing items everyday and instead she's opened to group to public audience and invited people to share their own ideas while taking a slower and more predictable approach in her own enrichment journey with her ponies. The group has since grown massively and has now got over 35k followers. 

In this episode we discuss:

1:21 - episode introduction

2:13 - introducing Maja & the Enrichment For Horses Facebook group

9:40 - what is ‘enrichment’ and what is it for equines?

10:57 - how did Maja get interested in enrichment for horses

12:27 - the rescue ponies: Cracker & Charisma

14:03 - more about the ponies

17:36 - what motivated you to set up the Enrichment For Horses Fb group

20:06 - why provide enrichment?

26:42 - enrichment in the Zoo world

30:39 - building curiosity, focus, & the importance of teaching horses to participate in enrichment

32:23 - ‘real-world’ benefits of equines engaging in enrichment

35:32 - enrichment with or without food

43:00 - giving fearful horses the opportunities to learn & needing to help the animal learn how to engage

48:36 - behaviour modelling

52:39 - enrichment activity examples

1:01:47 - another benefit & more examples

1:05:59 - safety warning - common sense required

1:09:42 - where to find out more

1:10:47 - episode wrap-up, keeping in touch & what’s on next week

Links from Maja:

• Hear Your Horse Whisper - science based information and education - Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063798690549
• Enrichment For Horses - Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2609672455794356/?ref=share
• No Drama Pony Training - Facebook Group: https://m.facebook.com/groups/1588766501481423/?ref=share

Enrichment topics:

• Working for food as Enrichment - Contra Free Loading: https://www.facebook.com/share/v/WTUUSg29PCaHB2B6/?ref=share
• Cognitive Enrichment - Problem Solving: https://fb.watch/rqcBZXdCtZ/
• Environmental Enrichment - life on tracks: https://www.facebook.com/share/v/uj1yrKF1JUXyU4ee/
• Environmental Enrichment - feeing in multiple places: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/XmvFvpWEmnjH8Ghh/
• Combining training with Enrichment: https://fb.watch/rqcHDFdF1i/
• Play in Enriched Environment: https://www.facebook.com/share/v/4Pm9BMiQ2E5wpNcK/
• Enrichment Playground: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/Vqacq9Gzx8gzxH9t/
• Jonny enrichment: https://www.facebook.com/share/v/HWVfpoueQUF4WWmQ/

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Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at [email protected]

This episode of our Special Edition Season on ‘What Else Is There?’ we are connecting with the far west coast of Scotland to speak with today’s guest Nicky Ross, owner of the business Horse Play.

I first discovered Nicky some years back through a training group we were both in on Facebook and I saw some of the lovely videos she was sharing of her work, teaching one of her ponies to go in harness, purely training using positive reinforcement. Nicky was based in England at that point, and then I watched from afar as Nicky and family moved to Scotland – much jealously from us, except for the midges – to the far west coast. Since then, Nicky has evolved her activities with her ponies and her human learners to work with the amazing environment there.

I really enjoy seeing what Nicky and crew are getting up to – things that I can only dream about where I am. Once again, the beauty of having a podcast means I could reach out & was so pleased to have the opportunity to speak with Nicky and hear more about her background, approach, the diversity activities that go on, and what makes Nicky’s heart smile & feel true in how she connects and helps her human learners connect with equines. I really resonate with a lot of Nicky’s approach and I’m delighted to share some more inspiration with you, our listeners this episode.

Nicky Ross:

Nicky Ross an equine behaviourist and teacher living in the Highlands of Scotland with her family, a little herd of Shetland ponies and 5 rabbits! Nicky has always loved all things horse and began teaching horse behaviour to children, adults and professionals 10 years ago. Nicky has a passion for improving equine welfare through giving people the knowledge, skills and understanding to view the world through their horse's eyes.

Horse Play:

Originally founded when Nicky and her family lived in Yorkshire, Horse Play is all about sharing a passion for equine behaviour and wellbeing with others. Through fun, practical experiences with the herd, we explore the Highlands whilst gaining amazing insights into the horse’s mind.

In this episode we discuss:

1:26 - episode introduction

3:03 - introducing Nicky & Horse Play

4:25 - the landscape that forms a large part of the adventures

7:10 - actively choosing the place

9:39 - the story & evolution of Horse Play - the amazing learning experiences

16:12 - Nicky’s horsie origins

20:07 - learning the most from the horses

22:10 - Nicky’s equine team

24:39 - small versus riding horses - the conversations possible

27:32 - Pixie’s driving

31:28 - the diversity of activities

39:48 - the word ‘liberty’ & what that means in Nicky’s world

45:21 - similarities & differences between big and little

48:42 - people facing their own (long-time, intergenerational) learning history & the challenge with choice & the paradigm shift

57:12 - how you can get involved

1:02:57 - even more adventures

1:06: 05 - episode wrap-up & what’s coming up at Abbey’s Run & next week

Links from Nicky:

Website, https://horseplay.horse/

New Online Course: Horse Play At Home, https://www.horseplayhighlands.com/pl/2148332144 

Free Webinar sharing the secrets of how we're able to work with our horses at liberty with only minimal training, https://nicky-ross.mykajabi.com/pl/2148295556

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Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at [email protected]

This episode of our Special Edition Season on ‘What Else Is There?’ takes a little bit of a different view. Today, instead of us meeting with those who engage in this space in a more professional capacity, it is my pleasure to introduce you to a couple who are horse-owners and to share their, very personal but very inspiring journey.

I connected with Chris and Michael Fallon, based in the United States, as a result of the post I put up and shared into the Non Ridden Equine Facebook group, asking what fun, non-ridden activities were people getting up to with their equine friends. Chris posted a comment that included the most delightful video montage of a bunch of tricks their horse Pirate was doing, many with her husband Michael. The video, especially Michael’s joy as he played with Pirate & Pirates engagement, made me chuckle, filled me with joy and I made a point of showing it to Benn, for him to see another male having fun in this way. We were both tickled.

So I reached out to Chris and invited her and Michael to join me for a conversation, to share their experiences with you as other owners who are not professionals in the ethical horse world. To my delight, they were happy to chat with me so that their story could inspire others. I think a really key part of Chris and Michael’s story is that their horse Pirate CAN be ridden at this point, unlike Vicki’s Kez that we spoke about last week. Pirate can be ridden and still they are having a fabulous time with him from the ground.

I am incredibly grateful to Chris and Michael for meeting with me and so openly sharing this personal story with me and now you. I hope it leaves you feeling inspired about what’s possible with your equine friends.

Chris & Michael Fallon:

Chris and Michael currently live in Garnet Valley, Pennsylvania. Chris has two children; Bobby and Melanie and two grandchildren. Chris received her bachelor’s degree in Elementary Education/Psychology from Millersville State University and her master’s degree in Strategic Leadership from Neumann University. Chris is currently the Cooperative Education Coordinator at Delaware County Technical High Schools and has been in that position for 19 years. Chris has played the piano since she was 3 years old and enjoys music, photography, traveling, spending time with her grandchildren and wastes time buying things from Amazon and returning them. Michael received his degree in Hotel and Restaurant Management from Penn State University and is a construction superintendent for a general contractor. He has been an indentured servant for way too long and is hoping to retire if he hits the lottery. Michael enjoys collecting junk, traveling and snoring.

Pirate:

Pirate is a 14-year-old black, quarter horse gelding. He is boarded at Cloverleaf Stables in Chadds Ford, PA. His favorite activities are eating everything in sight and training his owners to scratch him and play with him. He likes to search everyone’s grain bucket hoping that there could be some kernels left behind. Pirate has also become a connoisseur of fine fruits and vegetables. He has taught his Mike and Chris to forget the crappy supermarket food; only expensive fruits and vegetables that have been organically grown will suit his refined palate. Pirate has also been Chris’ therapist which he does free of charge. After Chris sustained a severe, non-horse related injury, Chris enjoys just sitting in the pasture with Pirate and doing nothing. The therapist that Chris had to pay suggested that she find ways to “stay in the moment” to help cope with the mental effects of a permanent disability. Since horses live in the moment, just hanging out with Pirate has helped her to relax and not focus on her injury. Pirate has owned Chris and Michael Fallon since February, 2019.

In this episode we discuss:

1:25 - episode introduction

3:30 - introducing Chris, Michael & Pirate

5:47 - podcasting in PJs & snow

8:09 - the montage video & becoming horsie folk

12:31 - Skittles

15:20 - Pirate

16:17 - Chris’s (non-horsie) accident & the flow-on impacts

19:11 - Michael’s influence & finding clicker training, the spark & the fun

23:06 - how what’s done with Pirate relates to working with kids & the importance of setting them up for success with the environment, especially equipment

25:12 - using your imagination & wandering the toy aisle

26:18 - where we train: giving choice & capturing behaviours

31:08 - unexpected but good things that positive reinforcement training has let to

33:13 - wanting to overcome the fear & the shift that the changed training can give

33:36 - applying the same training approach to ourselves as we would our horses

37:44 - Pirate’s story

42:56 - seeds planted & the barn’s response

47:28 - what gets the strangest looks

49:08 - Pirate’s ‘voice’

51:25 - talking through the video montage & other activities in Pirate’s repertoire

1:01:17 - different relationships

1:04:48 - the snowball rolling down the hill - learning how to learn & the speed of learning that leads to

1:06: 05 - episode wrap-up & what’s coming up at Abbey’s Run & next week

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Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at [email protected]

In this episode of our Special Edition Season on ‘What Else Is There?’, I’m delighted to introduce you to Vicki Jayne Yates and the Facebook group she established with her husband Steve, ‘The Non Ridden Equine’.

This free group that continues to grow weekly with a current membership of over 32,000 people from around the world. I’ve been a member for a number of years now and love being part of such an inclusive, welcoming group and a place where I can draw inspiration on ideas of what activities I can be doing with my horses besides riding.

I wanted to showcase this community to you because I think we can sometimes feel isolated and perhaps lonely if we’re not riding. So much is focused on the ridden world and there can be peer-pressure to ride, I know I’ve faced it. I want you to know that if you are not riding your equines or even if you are, that there is this amazing, international community out there that you can be part of if you’re not already. There are SO many people around the world who have equines that they don’t ride & enjoy in other ways. The Non Ridden Equine Facebook group is somewhere that you can find connection and possibly some inspiration too (listen next week for more on this).

I also find Vicki and Steve’s story with Kez, which inspired the establishment of the group very powerful and wanted to share that with you too.

Enjoy & see you in The Non Ridden Equine Facebook group soon.

Vicki Jayne Yates:

Vicki is an artist, Reiki healer, animal communicator and founder of the original Non Ridden Equine Facebook group. Vicki has many years’ experience in the equine industry. Her horsemanship approach has been showcased many times in published articles in magazines. Vicki is passionate out non ridden equines and the many lessons we can learn side by side from equines. 

Vicki’s passion for non ridden equines comes from years of seeing first-hand how disadvantaged they are in a world in love with riding. Vicki and her husband Steve’s own horse Kez cannot be ridden due to his health conditions. He is a daily reminder that more must be done for non ridden equines. Not all are lucky to have guardians who love unconditionally. 

Vicki and Steve set up the original Non Ridden Equine Facebook group. Tens of thousands of people have joined. It was clear that social media is a fantastic way to connect and share stories. 

Kez has his own social media page and Vicki has also created free non ridden resources for all and called it Kez’s Club. 

On a very personal level Vicki has been on profound and life changing journeys with my own equines. Each has gifted her insights and knowledge. Lessons can be deep, personal and take us out of our comfort zones into new learning. The bond between 2 souls is real and spiritual. 

The Non Ridden Equine Facebook group

This is the original Non Ridden Equine group on Facebook and is the pioneer in raising the non-ridden agenda and influencing change. It has gone global with members worldwide. The group is not an anti-riding group.

Horses are not born with tack. Plenty cannot be ridden or driven for many reasons. Some people choose not to ride. The non ridden equine is often over looked and under-valued. This Facebook group has been created to celebrate the many joys non-ridden equines can bring to us. It is a place people can exchange ideas and experiences of enjoyment of the non-ridden equine. Plus show off their beautiful equines. People who ride are also welcome. As everything non-ridden is great for ridden equines too. Riding is wonderful if it is ethical and FUN for both horse and human.

In this episode we discuss:

1:21 - episode introduction

3:23 - introducing Vicki & The Non Ridden Equine Facebook group

5:46 - a thank you & Vicki’s story of finding this passion

8:36 - the personal journey that led to the group’s creation: Kez’s story

12:22 - setting up the Facebook group, & going global

14:06 - who is Kez?

15:56 - the importance of persevering to figure out what’s going on to know what you’re dealing with & being aware of who any treatment is actually for

18:54 - the group & how it ‘ticks’

23:00 - importance of a safe space to share personal journey’s & a long intergenerational history

26:00 - how young it starts & a different way

30:34 - diversity in the group

32:39 - what do people share in the group - what are the diverse activities do people get up to?

38:21 - how to find the group to join in & the benefits of non-ridden activities to ALL equines

40:35 - episode wrap-up & what’s on An Equine Conversation next week

Links from Vicki:

The Non Ridden Equine Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thenonriddenhorse

Website: www.VickiJayneYates.co.uk  

Kez’s Club: www.vickijayneyates.co.uk/kezs-club.html

Kez’s Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/kezthenonriddencob

Our links mentioned this episode:  

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Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at [email protected]

I’m so excited to introduce today, our first guest of our Special Edition Season on ‘What Else Is There?’ (besides riding).

I’ll be straight with you and say that one of the joys of podcasting is having a reason to speak to some awesome humans in our industry, because uh, I want to connect with them myself, and today is no exception. 

Ellen Cochrane came on my radar a couple of years ago, when someone shared the footage of Ellen’s mule Inara, pushing a soccer ball around an S-bend of poles. It was posted on Ellen’s page that follow’s Inara’s journey, ‘It’s a Mule’s Life’ and it was amazing. This was clearly someone who was a very clever trainer and able to achieve awesome things, and so I started following Ellen’s work. 

In parallel with this and probably even before I knew of Ellen, I had heard about Equine Agility and was captivated by the idea. There is so much I love about this as an activity we can be doing with our horses for fun, that hones our training skills broadly with lots of real-world positive impacts, and it also facilitates those who have a competitive drive to compete, while still keeping their horse comfortable as possible as the entries are submitted from home. It’s something that can be done un-mounted on lead and off-lead and also done mounted. There are so many options and the creators have made this opportunity inclusive for so many equines and their humans. I can’t wait to explore it with my equine team. 

But, let me stop there as Ellen will explain so much more in the conversation you’re about to hear. 

I will just say that I’ll be speaking with Ellen again soon in a future Season of An Equine Conversation as there are so many more things we want to share with you.

Ellen Cochrane

Ellen Cochrane, based in England, first discovered Horse Agility when working with a client with a disability who wanted something safe she could do with her new horse. Ellen thought it was brilliant decided to get involved herself as a way of providing some focus into training her rescue mule, Inara, and to help build her confidence. Inara and Ellen both really enjoyed Agility and progressed through the levels with Ellen then stepping into the role of a Horse Agility Accredited Trainer. This meant Ellen could coach other people officially and run clinics. Over the years, Inara & Ellen had won a few titles, but in 2022, they hit the big ones and became Horse Agility World Champion both on-lead and Liberty. Ellen then chose to retire from competing to instead get involved from the other side, joining the Horse Agility Club as a judge, course designer and certificate course coach. Ellen also teaches Horse Agility in “real life” and runs clinics and camps. Ellen is also a positive reinforcement trainer working with various clients, and is the owner of I think it was also 7 equines, just like we have here, although unlike us, Ellen has a mule in the mix.

Photo of Ellen & Inara thanks to: Catchphrase Photography

International Horse Agility Club

The International Horse Agility Club was founded by Vanessa Bee in December 2009, and has become a fast-growing equine sport. Horse Agility sees you navigate a series of obstacles with your horse with a focus on working together as a team. The club runs monthly competitions in both on-lead classes and liberty classes, as well as Equagility classes which are ridden. We also have a special Junior course for our young members, a Young Horse class for our young horses, and even an Any Other Animal class for anything from a guinea pig to a llama and everything in between! The main competitions are online video competitions which means you can compete from the comfort of your horse’s home. We also have special Walking Only classes for those equines or people who have difficulties going faster than a walk. The Walk Only classes are not easier – but rather focus on more technical movements. The Horse Agility Club also have a 10-level certificate course program, for those who might not want to compete, or those who want a bit more support in their journey as they work their way through with a mentor.

In this episode we discuss:

1:23 - episode introduction

3:23 - introducing Ellen Cochrane & the International Horse Agility Club

6:05 - welcoming Ellen & how clever our animals are

8:44 - what even is 'equine agility’ & how is that different to dog agility?

12:22 - competing from home versus travelling = inclusive

14:00 - how did Ellen get into agility?

18:04 - winning rosettes, Inara’s progression to the top & transitioning to the ‘other side’ of the Club

23.13 - options for competition participation

29:39 - course program

31:41 - giving training a focus & can you miss a month?

33:21 - are there equines that can’t or shouldn’t do agility - catering to different abilities

36:05 - how many people are involved & from where

37:42 - the community

39:31 - a growing activity & inspiring other people

43:20 - how the judging works

47:05 - coming up with the obstacles

49:38 - ‘real-world’ outcomes as a result of the agility training

55:21 - thanks to Vanessa for establishing the Club

56:42 - the potential for equine agility to be done within an existing group or club

57:44 - where to find out more

58:35 - episode wrap-up

59:33 - activities happening this month with Abbey’s Run Equestrian & what’s on An Equine Conversation next week

Links from Ellen:

Website: https://www.thehorseagilityclub.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheHorseAgilityClub

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/horseagilityclub/

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Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at [email protected]

I have spent many hours thinking about bringing this Special Edition Season of An Equine Conversation to you, and then of course planning & sourcing guests & editing episodes.

The more I thought about it, the more and more important and the clearer the WHY for this episode became to me. And it seemed more than what was sensible to fit into the already long Season Trailer, so here we are at Episode 1, talking about the why. Why we are producing a Special Edition of An Equine Conversation on ‘What else is there?’.

In this episode we discuss:

1:43 - episode introduction

2:15 - first, some cool podcast stats & thanks to you

6:22 - the problem for the horses

10:22 - the challenge the humans can face

12:32 - what we want to do this season

13:56 - the list we heard from you so far

17:03 - episode wrap-up

18:21 - April 2024 activities & what’s on next week’s episode

Links mentioned this episode:  

Sign-up to our email list

Sign-up to our free 90min workshop on the 10th of April

Finessing the Fundamentals: 2-day, in person workshop in April

From Green to Growth: developing positive partnerships for the future

Abbey's Run Equestrian website

Abbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook

Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at [email protected]

Hello lovely listener!
I am so excited to be back & bringing you this, our first Special Edition Season of An Equine Conversation.

Just like previous Seasons of the podcast, Season 4 includes 8 episodes, the first of which will drop next Wednesday.

Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production and consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at [email protected]

Here we are at our final episode for Season 3 of An Equine Conversation. The months & months of recording & editing have all finally finished & you now have the whole season to listen to & what an epic season it has been too.

Stay tuned at the end of the conversation for some announcements.

I’m delighted to bring you this final episode with the 4th inspirational women in the horse world I’ve had the pleasure of speaking with this season.

This is yet another conversation I’ve been so looking forward to having and to sharing with you. Dr Dorothy Heffernan is based in Scotland, my favourite place in the world besides where I am in Victoria, Australia, but grew up in Ireland. I mention in the conversation, an Irish documentary that was on TV when I was a child about horses in Ireland and so I always wondered what it would have been like growing up horsie in Ireland. You’ll never believe it, but someone’s put that 53 minute and a bit documentary, which must have been made in the 1980’s or even 70’s onto YouTube. I almost fell off my chair when I thought to look and found it.

I digress…

Dorothy first came on my radar a number of years ago with her insightful responses to questions on some of the equine behaviour & positive reinforcement Facebook groups & it seemed Dorothy liked mine too & we connected over a like-minded approach.

Since then I’ve been following Dorothy’s journey with both her training work with humans & horses in Scotland, and with her own little herd of horses. I knew Dorothy grew up in Ireland and I wanted to hear what that was like & I love Scotland so am always happy to speak with anyone there.

I know some of you lovely listeners had really resonated with & appreciated hearing Julia Inglis story with her EMS horse and you wanted more information around EMS – a growing challenge for many horse owners. Dorothy has an EMS pony Rio – whose story I wanted to share with you as well, so we delve into the trials and tribulations of managing an EMS pony in Scotland.

It was such a fun conversation with Dorothy who is a great story-teller. Even listening back to edit the episode, I laughed and I almost shed tears at different points. I hope you enjoy listening as much as Dorothy & I enjoyed recording this for you.

Dorothy Heffernan:

Dorothy Heffernan, PhD was born and raised in Dublin in the Republic of Ireland, where she was a horse and pony mad child. She moved to Scotland to study psychology and took her love of all things equid with her.

After graduating with a PhD from the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow, she chose to specialize in equine behavior and has been working as an equine behavior consultant for 17 years, helping people solve behavior challenges with their horses, ponies, donkeys and mules. In 2021, she joined with three other force-free equid trainers to launch Positive Equine Training Scotland, offering support and training to people in Scotland who want to learn about new gentle and compassionate ways of working with their equid friends. Getting to meet and work with a variety of equids, big, small, long and short eared has been Dorothy’s dream all her life, and now she’s living that dream.

As well as teaching and helping with equid behaviour issues, Dorothy supervises research projects for the University of Edinburgh courses in Equine Science and Animal Behaviour & Welfare. She has her own three lovely equid friends who take up either far too much (or not nearly enough) of her time, all trained using force free positive reinforcement methods.

In this episode we discuss:

1:24 - episode introduction

4:15 - introducing Dr Dorothy Heffernan

4:47 - Scotland: the Scottish summer, loving Scotland & accents/dilects

14:09 - growing up horse-mad in the suburbs of Dublin

16.29 - riding lessons in the middle of Dublin city

18:36 - making the most of horsie extended family

19.55 - eventually Dad bought the horse - perseverance pays off

23:60 - enter Rio

28.11 - enter Mal

30.18 - enter Jackson

25.41 - how studying & teaching in Psychology has informed a change in horse keeping & training

43.56 - Rio’s EMS: the background

52.10 - the laminitis diagnosis, the management & the recovery

54.16 - round 2

56:52 - Rio’s current status: ditching the fat pads & ‘the knife edge’

57.59 - Dorothy’s insights: forage/feed importance, what exercise does

59:28 - a positively trained, EMS pony, the need for exercise & how that was managed

1:00:53 - the positive ripple effects of the exercise training

1:03:16 - Rio’s living set-up & management now - balancing behavioural & health needs

1:05:38 - exercising ‘relatively hard’ - what is hard enough to have a positive impact

1:06:52 - the broader impacts of exercise

1:09:27 - the evolution in the herd dynamics as Rio’s EMS has been managed, his living conditions have been stable & his training has progressed

1:10:37 - Rio & Mal’s earlier relationship & working to train that

1:16:19 - top tips for managing an EMS pony

1:23:57 - episode & season wrap-up

Link from Dorothy:

• Find Dorothy via her Facebook profile
• Or at Dorothy’s website: Light Touch Equine

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• Tell us what you thought about Season 3: CLICK HERE to share your thoughts via our short feedback form.

Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: https://www.mbpod.com/

Let me invite you today, to come for a little journey into the wine cellar with me, which is kind of ironic, given I don’t drink alcohol, but hey, I can still appreciate the amazingness that is a wine cellar… so come on this little journey with me.

Why are we going to the wine cellar? Well, for very, very good reason: 

Because, we have a tendency to start training our horses on the ground floor or somewhere above it, so, in the middle instead of at the beginning, instead of starting down in the gloriousness that is the wine cellar. 

I think we do this for a variety of very legitimate reasons, but it often leads us into a pickle in lots of ways with training our horses where we get ourselves stuck or facing problems. 

I hear some of you cry here, ‘but but but, I am not a horse trainer, I am an owner and I work with a trainer so this episode can’t be for me’… and I’m here to tell you that anyone who works with or cares for any animal, anywhere is a trainer – regardless of whether we’re conscious of it or not. So yep, if you care for a horse or any other animal, you are a trainer & this episode, this visit to the wine cellar is for you. As if you don’t want to go to the wine cellar anyway!?

In today’s episode I’m going to speak to the training that comes before the training. Because that piece is inextricably connected to just how successful any training, which I say in inverted commas, is.

So let’s head down the stairs into the cool of the wine cellar together and get started.

In this episode we discuss:

1:22 - episode introduction

3:10 - we so often miss the (training) things that come before & start training somewhere in the middle instead of at the start (or in the wine cellar)

5:37 - there’s a whole lot of training that doesn’t seem like ‘training’ but IS training and has a direct impact on our ‘training’

7:37 - the things that come before the wine cellar - the ‘site preparation’

8:46 - problems in training: symptoms versus causes

9:58 - what’s falls into the category of training that doesn’t seem like training but is training, for you

13:19 - setting up the classroom for student success

14:19 - wine cellar foundations are not something most of us were taught

16:49 - the role that peer pressure (direct or in-direct) plays

19:34 - it’s not rocket science, but we mostly miss them and/or need permission to go there

20:23 - an activity you can do that doesn’t seem like training but absolutely is training

23:30 - another activity to think about how you’d approach in your circumstances

25:54 - episode recap

30.22 - episode wrap-up & what’s on next week

Links mentioned this episode:  

• Sign-up to our email list
• Abbey's Run Equestrian website
• Abbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook

Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: https://www.mbpod.com/

From the age of about 10-11 years old, it was my dream to have my own children’s riding school. I started instructing at 16 and taught a lot of young people. Initially at riding schools & then at Pony Club where I often taught the youngest members, the more junior groups.

In my mid-to-late 20’s, I’d had enough of teaching young people, of dealing with their parents and so I chose to focus on working with adults.

I didn’t realise at that time, that part of the reason I’d had enough was because of the more conventional way I was having to teach people & that this just didn’t sit right with me. At that time, I didn’t know of or see another way. I wasn’t aware of alternative options.

Fast forward to a few years ago, and my initial dream started to re-kindle in a fashion, with sparks, ignited by the work of people like the lovely Bex Tasker from Positively Together in NZ. I started to see a handful of people around the work, having learning adventures with young people that looked absolutely amazing.

This, their approach, different from that conventional way, really got me & I started to have hope that my initial dream, could, in some way, happen in future. For now, this is something that’s still in my future, something I have bubbling along in the back of my mind, but now I have hope. I have hope for amazing alternatives for ways of working with young people and horses, and moreover, I’m so excited by what I’m seeing is possible to support young people learning about working with horses and other species in very cool ways that I wish were around when I was young.

I couldn’t go past inviting Bex to come and have a chat with me here on An Equine Conversation, to share about her own learning journey and how she evolved her career to working with young people & animals, totally busting the myth that it’s something that we shouldn’t do. Bex does amazing work with young people as the learn about training animals and in turn, that’s giving them a bunch of personal development, teaching them invaluable life-skills on how they engage with their peers, families & humans around them. This includes learning about compassion, boundaries, choice & consent. Hugely important life-skills for us all.

I find this work of Bex’s incredibly inspiring, as do others & Bex has more recently started to support other positive reinforcement focused coaches who work with and want to work with young people through her Shaping the Future membership.

This is an episode for anyone who’s involved with young people, not just those in the animal training space. I hope you enjoy and find inspiration in this conversation.

Bex Tasker:

Bex and her family live on a small farm in beautiful Bay of Plenty, New Zealand. Under her business Positively Together, Bex teaches humans in NZ and around the world how to inspire behaviour change in their horses and dogs. Bex is a Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner and has been training with positive reinforcement for over 20 years, being best known for her long-standing passion and speciality in teaching humans about clicker training for horses. However, Positively Together also runs programmes in which youth experience the power of positive reinforcement and see learning and communication in action, as they work hands-on with friendly trained animals (currently there are sheep, horses, chickens, dogs, cows, pigs and rabbits!). The youth programs and multi-species focus have been growing rapidly since 2018 and have become a special passion for Bex and her team.

Positively Together offers a "Junior Animal Trainers" programme, and “PupStars” classes for kids and their dogs. The flagship “Next Gen Trainers” membership for tweens and teens remains the heart project, with the monthly workshops and strong community providing a safe anchor for kids during the challenging teenage years. The focus for all the youth programs is on animal welfare and trainer skills, and the underlying values of compassion, consent, confidence, resilience and respect – for animals, and for humans.

Over the years the videos of these kids classes posted on Positively Together social media pages have prompted enthusiastic enquiries from trainers around the world wanting advice on how to design and launch similar programs. Bex has guided many people through this process one-on-one, but as a firm believer that, as Dr Friedman says, “All of us are smarter than one of us”, a new idea was born. "Shaping the Future" was launched in early 2023. It is an online coaching collective and community where those of us who are passionate about teaching kids and animals can come together to share ideas and advice, gain support, get inspired, and ultimately get started with changing the world! If you have a special interest in this field, in any capacity, Bex and co would love you to join in!

In this episode we discuss: 

1:24 - episode introduction

4:40 - introducing Bex Tasker

7:30 - Bex’s horsie start & the realities of paying your own bills

9:21 - reflections & learnings

10:19 - dogs & the return of horses to the forefront of life

11.39 - the disconnect that can exist in how we train dogs versus horses & how Bex started training with the same approach with both

15:43 - the beginning of a career working with training animals

19:44 - a challenging time & a change in career away from animal training, into Criminal & Fraud Intelligence

20:09 - shifting back to training with humans & animals full time & the similarities this has with Intelligence work

24:24 - starting out & forging a new path

28:12 - the advantages to having minimal outside influences

30:06 - building a new community/tribe

32:55 - the irony of the isolation leading to dedication enabling creativity & a better training approach - which led to the creation of community to enable a better training approach for more people (so they don’t feel lonely or isolated) & finding your tribe

34:54 - ‘good training is good training’, the importance of understanding how behaviour & learning works

35:45 - the difference between true isolation & isolation among a group of others when you have different ideas & views, the need to at times create your own community

38:22 - the importance of us being visible so people can see an alternative - ‘just doing what we do & being who we are is actually enough’

41:43 - starting to work with young people in the animal training space - finding what makes your heart smile

44:13 - a collaboration, creating ‘Mane Priority’ events including ‘Dream It, Be It’ - an animal careers expo to show young people & their parents options

46:13 - mentoring teenagers & developing ‘Next Gen Trainers’ in collaboration with a Youth Worker friend

47:15 - trying other things to see which worked best & finding what lights Bex up

48:19 - evolving to add in more species, beyond horses (including the ‘wool puppies’)

51:32 - the learning we can gain from working with multiple species & taking best-practice from outside of the horse world & cooperative care

55:57 - developing young people into nimble trainers: the difference (or not) between training sheep and training horses & learning to adapt training to different species (humans included)

59:49 - we humans are ‘training’ one another all the time, consciously or not & learning to do it well is a great thing - the world would be a better place with more compassion & kindness - bringing the influence we’re having on others to a more conscious level

1:04:00 - animal training teaching young people critical thinking skills

1:05:55 - importance of young people understanding choice & consent & how animal training supports this learning - respecting every species right to say ‘no’ & having your own boundaries

1:11:17 - feedback on the program from students, parents & other observers

1:17:15 - a run-through of Bex’s programs - both for the young & the young at heart (see links below for more information)

1:22:33 - Bex’s top tips for you: have compassion, stay curious, just be you, follow your gut & look outside the horse-world for learning

1:26:26 - resources that Bex likes right now

1:30:23 - episode wrap-up, notes & what’s on next week

Links from Bex:

• Website: www.clickertraining.co.nz
• Virtual communities and courses: www.positivelytogether.app
• Facebook: facebook.com/positive.reinforcement.training
• Instagram: instagram.com/positively_together

Our links mentioned this episode:  

• Sign-up to our email list
• Abbey's Run Equestrian website
• Abbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook

Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: https://www.mbpod.com/