Drawing from her background in decision analysis and teaching experience at Stanford, Michelle shares how this framework evolved from complex decision trees into a more accessible tool for everyday use. She explains how the framework helps people who worry about making decisions they might regret, offering a structured approach to thinking through uncertain outcomes.

Through a personal example of managing multiple commitments during a busy period while fighting illness, Michelle demonstrates how to apply the Relief-Regret framework to real-world decisions. She walks listeners through the process of using this tool to evaluate options and make choices with greater confidence, even in the face of uncertainty.

1. Evolution of the Name [00:01:00] 
2. When to Use Relief-Regret [00:02:00] 
3. About Decision Trees [00:04:00] 
4. Understanding Risk Components [00:06:00] 
5. Origins of Relief-Regret [00:09:00] 
6. A Real-World Example [00:11:00] 
7. Framework Implementation [00:14:00] 
8. Framework Evolution and Feedback [00:29:00]

Michelle begins by explaining how her framework has evolved through different iterations and names. What began as the "seven question shortcut analysis" became known informally as the "Happy Face, Sad Face Analysis" by her Stanford Continuing Studies students before its current iteration as the Relief-Regret framework.

"I'll admit, I'm still playing with what to call this thing. I've called it a number of different things over the years, and I'll admit that this framework is still evolving," Michelle explains, noting how the framework continues to develop through practical application.

The evolution of names reflects how different audiences have engaged with and understood the tool, from decision analysis students to coaching clients facing real-world decisions.

The framework is specifically designed for decisions involving radical uncertainties - situations where outcomes cannot be known until they occur. Michelle emphasizes that this tool is particularly valuable when people express concerns about potential regret.

"And when they say something like, I don't want to make a decision that I'm going to regret. Because there's something there around, you are facing the type of decision where there are some what-ifs," Michelle explains.

She outlines the three core components present in every decision: objectives (what you want), options (ways to achieve what you want), and information (how options deliver against objectives). The Relief-Regret framework is most useful when dealing with radical uncertainties - situations where information won't be available until after decisions are made.

Michelle introduces decision trees as the foundational concept that informed the Relief-Regret framework. She describes how decision trees help visualize choices and their potential outcomes through a branching format.

"Decision trees are really useful tools for visualizing. Remember, a lot of the work that I do is all about capturing often in a visual nature what is happening in our decisions or decision processes," Michelle explains.

Using her own example of deciding whether to try for pregnancy with health risks, she demonstrates how decision trees map out initial choices, uncertain outcomes, and subsequent decisions that might arise. However, she notes that teaching proper decision tree construction requires more time than is typically available in coaching sessions or workshops.

When analyzing risk, Michelle emphasizes examining both what's at stake and the likelihood of various outcomes. She explains that risk assessment involves identifying the objectives that might not be achieved and understanding both the magnitude and probability of potential outcomes.

Risk has multiple components:

• What is at risk (objectives that might not be achieved)
• Magnitude (how significant the impact would be)
• Likelihood (probability of different outcomes)

"Whenever you're thinking about risk, there are a few things going on. So one, it's useful to think about what is at risk, and it's usually, oh, I'm not going to achieve my objective," Michelle details.

Michelle explains how she developed the Relief-Regret framework while collaborating with Stanford's Life Design Lab. She recognized that traditional decision-making tools like decision matrices weren't sufficient for decisions involving radical uncertainties.

The framework emerged from listening to common concerns in coaching sessions and workshops. Michelle notes how people frequently expressed worry about making decisions they might regret, signaling a need for a tool specifically designed to address uncertainty.

"One of the things that I kept hearing over and over and over again was, I don't want to make a decision that I'm going to regret," Michelle shares, explaining how this recurring concern shaped the framework's development.

Michelle demonstrates the framework's application through a personal example involving multiple commitments at the end of October: a 20-year college reunion, completing Halloween costumes, attending a nephew's birthday party, and teaching responsibilities, all while feeling the onset of illness.

She describes her decision-making process: "I had to make a decision around how do I move through all of these things that are on my calendar throughout the end of this month... and then I was thinking like I don't want to risk getting really sick for the events that matter."

The example illustrates how phrases like "I don't want to risk" or concerns about regret can signal when to use the Relief-Regret framework.

The Relief-Regret matrix consists of three columns and four rows, designed to make complex decision analysis more accessible.

Matrix Structure:

1. First Column: Row labels
   • Relief
   • Regret
   • Response
   • Reduce Risk
2. Second/Third Columns: Options being considered

Steps for Implementation:

1. Draw the matrix (3 columns, 4 rows)
2. Label rows (Relief, Regret, Response, Reduce Risk)
3. List options in column headers
4. Fill in relief scenarios for each option
5. Document potential regret scenarios
6. Plan responses to negative outcomes
7. Identify risk reduction strategies

"The way that this works is you draw a matrix on your piece of paper. So grab a piece of paper if you have a decision, and you're going to first start out by drawing three columns and four rows," Michelle instructs.

Michelle discusses how the framework continues to evolve through feedback from colleagues at the Life Design Lab. She shares how her colleagues have suggested expanding the emotional range of the framework beyond just relief and regret.

"Usually I work with people who do place a lot of focus on risk mitigation. They're trying to minimize the downside versus people who are looking to maximize the upside," Michelle explains, acknowledging potential areas for framework expansion.

She notes colleagues' suggestions about including broader emotional ranges: "Maybe there's ‘Rejoice’ on the upside as opposed to just ‘Relief.’ And then on the downside, not just ‘Regret,’ but ‘Remorse’ or what if, what if there's even ‘Reject.’"

• The Relief-Regret framework helps navigate decisions involving uncertainty
• Look for signals like "I don't want to risk" or concerns about regret to know when to use the framework
• Consider both magnitude and likelihood when assessing risks
• Map out relief scenarios, regret scenarios, responses, and risk reduction strategies
• The framework is flexible and continues to evolve based on user feedback

• Decision Trees
• Relief-Regret Matrix
• Decision Making Components

• Michelle’s Stanford Continuing Studies course
• Check out Michelle’s self-paced course Decision Toolkit for Personal Decisions
• Her Decision Toolkit Coaches and Counselors virtual workshop on Maven

Michelle Florendo is a distinguished decision engineer and executive coach who specializes in helping individuals navigate complex decisions in both personal and professional spheres. With a Bachelor of Science in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford University and an MBA from UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business, Michelle employs a sophisticated blend of decision engineering, design thinking, and lean startup methodologies to assist her clients in charting their optimal path forward. She has guided hundreds of driven professionals in applying decision engineering principles to achieve greater clarity and reduce stress in their decision-making processes.

She currently teaches a decision-making course for Stanford Continuing Studies and has played a pivotal role in enhancing the curriculum on career decision-making in Stanford's renowned Design Your Life course. Her expertise has been recognized by various prestigious organizations, as evidenced by her involvement with Seth Godin's altMBA program, her founding membership in the Forbes Coaches Council, and her position as a faculty coach for the Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute. For those interested in exploring Michelle's coaching and speaking services further, additional information can be found on her professional website at poweredbydecisions.com.

Michelle reflects on the value of tools like decision trees and introduces the Relief-Regret Matrix, a framework she developed to evaluate future scenarios. Through this candid conversation, Michelle illustrates how thoughtful processes and clear priorities can guide us through life’s most difficult decisions.

This episode offers actionable insights for balancing risk, agency, and values in decision-making, providing listeners with tools to approach their own challenges with clarity and confidence.

1. Introduction [00:00:00]
2. Setting the Stage: A Major Family Decision [00:01:00]
3. Decision-Making Frameworks in Practice [00:04:00]
4. Mapping Scenarios with a Decision Tree [00:08:00]
5. Introducing the Relief-Regret Matrix [00:13:00]
6. Risk, Agency, and Confidence in Decisions [00:18:00]
7. Reflecting on Outcomes and Process [00:22:00]

The episode opens with Michelle and Shanice discussing the intricacies of making significant decisions, especially those involving health and family. Shanice shares how listening to Michelle’s past episodes inspired her to think critically about her own decision-making processes.

Shanice reflects, “I really am struggling with some big decisions and your podcast has been really helpful.” This sets the stage for a deep dive into how decision-making frameworks can guide individuals through complex and high-stakes situations.

Michelle emphasizes that decision-making is as much about clarifying objectives as it is about navigating uncertainty. Tools and frameworks, she notes, are there to guide us—not dictate answers.

Michelle shares the context of a pivotal decision involving her chronic health condition and her family’s wish to have another child. Diagnosed with a condition requiring treatment incompatible with pregnancy, Michelle faced the challenge of balancing health risks with her family’s aspirations.

She explains how she and her husband had open, honest conversations about their shared goals and non-negotiables. While they both wanted to expand their family, her husband made it clear that it could not come at the cost of her safety. This collaborative approach laid the foundation for navigating such a complex choice.

“We wanted to have another child,” Michelle recounts, “but my husband made it very clear: trying to have another child would not be worth it if it put my life at risk.” The stakes of the decision pushed them to rely on structured frameworks and clear communication.

Michelle introduces the core components of decision-making: objectives, options, and information. While she often refers to these as “wants, ways, and wisdom” in her teaching, she acknowledges this phrasing as a work in progress. This framework allowed her to break down a complex situation into manageable parts.

She emphasizes that her doctor’s role was to provide information, not dictate the decision. “The doctor wasn’t there to tell us what to do but to help us understand our options,” Michelle explains. This distinction highlights the importance of using experts as sources of wisdom while maintaining ownership of the decision.

By focusing on the decision-making process rather than rushing to an outcome, Michelle was able to align her choices with her family’s values and health priorities. She stresses that frameworks are not prescriptive but rather tools to guide clarity and dialogue.

Michelle shares how she used a decision tree to map out potential outcomes and decisions over time. This tool allowed her to visualize how choices, uncertainties, and new decisions could unfold.

Steps for creating a decision tree:

1. Identify Decisions: Outline key choices, such as when to begin treatment or attempt pregnancy.
2. Map Outcomes: Visualize possible results, like treatment success or pregnancy viability.
3. Anticipate Follow-Up Decisions: Plan for new decisions that might emerge based on different outcomes.
4. Weigh Risks and Benefits: Assess each pathway by balancing safety and family goals.

Michelle explains, “A decision tree lets you play out potential scenarios and consider what new decisions might emerge from each path.” This approach helped her evaluate the timing of treatments and pregnancy attempts while managing risks to her health.

To complement the decision tree, Michelle developed the Relief-Regret Matrix, a tool for evaluating future scenarios by considering potential feelings of relief or regret. This framework was particularly helpful in weighing emotional responses to different choices.

How to use the Relief-Regret Matrix:

• Step 1: Identify possible future scenarios and consider where relief or regret might arise.
• Step 2: Assess the likelihood of each scenario occurring.
• Step 3: Plan how you would respond to regretful situations.
• Step 4: Take proactive steps to increase the likelihood of relief-inducing outcomes.

Michelle notes, “Risk has two components: magnitude—how big is the badness—and likelihood. A balanced view helps us make better decisions.” The matrix provided a structured way to evaluate not only risks but also emotional outcomes, enabling her and her husband to feel more confident in their choice.

Michelle and Shanice discuss the role of agency in navigating uncertainty. For Michelle, this meant focusing on what she and her family could control while acknowledging external risks.

She emphasizes the importance of clearly defining objectives. “Risk is all about the possibility of not meeting your objectives,” Michelle explains. By clarifying these objectives, she and her husband could weigh the potential downsides alongside their shared family aspirations.

“Identifying where we still have agency helps build confidence to move forward,” Michelle says. This empowered perspective allowed them to mitigate risks and approach their decision with resilience.

Michelle reflects on the eventual outcome: they successfully expanded their family, welcoming a healthy second child. While there were unrelated medical complications during the birth, her chronic condition did not interfere with the pregnancy.

However, Michelle cautions against equating a good outcome with a good decision. “At the point that we made the decision, we felt good about it because of the process we went through—and that’s what matters,” she says. This distinction underscores the importance of focusing on decision quality rather than outcome quality.

By sharing her experience, Michelle demonstrates how thoughtful processes can guide us through uncertainty and allow us to adapt, regardless of how things turn out.

• Break complex decisions into components like objectives, options, and information.
• Tools like decision trees and the Relief-Regret Matrix provide clarity and structure.
• Risk includes magnitude (severity) and likelihood (probability), both of which guide choices.
• Focus on the process rather than the outcome for better confidence in decisions.
• Understand your agency and prepare for uncertainties to build resilience.

• Decision Tree Framework
• Relief-Regret Matrix
• Alexis Gonzales-Black on Group Decision-Making

• Michelle’s Stanford Continuing Studies course
• Check out Michelle’s self-paced course Decision Toolkit for Personal Decisions
• Her Decision Toolkit Coaches and Counselors virtual workshop on Maven

Michelle Florendo is a distinguished decision engineer and executive coach who specializes in helping individuals navigate complex decisions in both personal and professional spheres. With a Bachelor of Science in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford University and an MBA from UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business, Michelle employs a sophisticated blend of decision engineering, design thinking, and lean startup methodologies to assist her clients in charting their optimal path forward. She has guided hundreds of driven professionals in applying decision engineering principles to achieve greater clarity and reduce stress in their decision-making processes.

She currently teaches a decision-making course for Stanford Continuing Studies and has played a pivotal role in enhancing the curriculum on career decision-making in Stanford's renowned Design Your Life course. Her expertise has been recognized by various prestigious organizations, as evidenced by her involvement with Seth Godin's altMBA program, her founding membership in the Forbes Coaches Council, and her position as a faculty coach for the Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute. For those interested in exploring Michelle's coaching and speaking services further, additional information can be found on her professional website at poweredbydecisions.com.

By distinguishing between acting from emotion and being aware of emotion, Michelle equips listeners with tools to embrace emotions constructively. This episode dives deep into the nuances of emotions in decision-making, making it an essential listen for anyone navigating big life choices.

The episode unpacks this tension by exploring how emotions can act as signals rather than obstacles in decision-making. Drawing on years of coaching experience, Michelle offers actionable advice and frameworks to help listeners navigate their emotions, integrate insights, and move forward with clarity.

1. Introduction [00:00:00]
2. Listener Question: Balancing Emotions in Decision-Making [00:03:00] 
3. Emotions as Data: The Key to Better Decisions [00:06:00] 
4. Common Emotional Challenges in Decision-Making [00:09:00] 
5. Framework: Circles of Control and Concern [00:22:00] 
6. Sneaky Emotions: Sadness, Grief, and Impatience [00:27:00] 
7. Practical Steps for Noticing and Naming Emotions [00:30:00] 
8. Conclusion: Emotions as Allies [00:35:00] 

Big decisions often evoke strong emotions, ranging from fear and anxiety to excitement and hope. These feelings can either cloud judgment or provide valuable insights—depending on how we approach them. This episode of Ask a Decision Engineer centers on a question from Natalia, a listener in Scotland, who asks, “When making big decisions, there are a lot of emotions involved. How do you distance yourself from all these emotions and, at the same time, take them into account?”

Michelle opens by acknowledging the significance of this question. “I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who was telling the truth and saying that they had no emotions in the face of big decisions,” she notes. She highlights the tension many feel between wanting to make rational decisions and recognizing the inevitable role emotions play.

Natalia’s question about balancing emotions and rationality in decision-making sets the stage for the episode. Michelle applauds Natalia for acknowledging the presence of emotions in big decisions. “So I’m glad that you’re acknowledging that they’re there,” she says, “and then you pose such an interesting question: how do you distance yourself from all these emotions and, at the same time, take them into account?”

Michelle notes that societal sentiment often promotes rationality as the hallmark of good decisions. “There’s definitely a sentiment out there that is wary of bringing emotions into decisions,” she explains. Yet she challenges this view, emphasizing that emotions, when understood and integrated properly, can enhance decision-making rather than detract from it.

Michelle introduces the distinction between acting from emotion and being aware of emotion. “I’m definitely advocating for the latter,” she says, “because it’s in being aware of our emotions that we can use them as valuable data in our decision-making.” This distinction underpins the advice and strategies explored throughout the episode.

Michelle explains that emotions are not just noise—they are signals pointing to our needs and values. While aspirational emotions, like joy or fulfillment, can serve as a North Star for decision-making, emotions such as fear or overwhelm offer immediate feedback on what matters most in a given situation.

“Emotions can play a really important role in pointing to our needs and our wants,” she explains. However, these signals can only be harnessed if we pause to observe them. Michelle encourages listeners to take a moment to notice their feelings, creating the space needed to integrate emotional insights into the decision-making process.

The key to using emotions as data lies in reflection. Michelle advises listeners to ask themselves, “What are these emotions trying to tell me?” This simple act of inquiry can turn overwhelming feelings into actionable insights, aligning decisions with personal values and goals.

Michelle explores common emotions that arise during decision-making, including overwhelm, fear, and anxiety. These feelings often reflect the weight of competing priorities or the uncertainty of outcomes.

Overwhelm: Overwhelm arises when we try to process too much internally. Michelle recommends externalizing these thoughts: “Write things down, talk them out, or find a way to organize your thoughts.” By getting emotions out of your head and into a tangible format, you can reduce cognitive overload and approach decisions with greater clarity.

Fear of Being Wrong: Many struggle with the fear of making the “wrong” decision. Michelle reframes this fear by differentiating between decision quality and outcome quality. “The quality of your decision is not equal to the quality of the outcome,” she explains. Outcomes depend on numerous factors beyond our control, so focusing on the decision process itself is key.

Michelle also discusses the fear of hurting others or being judged, emphasizing that these feelings reflect what we value. She advises examining these fears closely to determine their relevance to the decision at hand.

Michelle introduces Stephen Covey’s Circles of Control, Influence, and Concern to help listeners identify where to focus their energy.

Key Components:

1. Circle of Control: What you can directly influence, such as your actions and decisions.
2. Circle of Influence: Areas where you can have a partial impact, like relationships or team dynamics.
3. Circle of Concern: Factors entirely beyond your control, such as external events or others’ opinions.

“If you’re feeling hopeless or trapped, ask yourself: Am I focusing on something in my Circle of Concern?” Michelle advises. Redirecting attention to the Circle of Control can help reframe challenges and reduce feelings of powerlessness.

Michelle also incorporates the concept of “gravity problems” from the Life Design Lab at Stanford, reminding listeners not to expend energy on issues they cannot change.

Michelle discusses subtle emotions that often go unnamed, such as sadness, grief, and impatience.

Sadness and Grief: Sadness often stems from mourning opportunities not taken. “By choosing this other one, that means I’m not going to be walking that other path, at least for right now,” Michelle notes. Acknowledging this grief allows for closure and prevents indecision.

Impatience: Impatience can lead to hasty choices driven by discomfort with uncertainty. Michelle advises listeners to recognize impatience as a signal and avoid rushing decisions prematurely.

Michelle outlines a practical process for engaging with emotions:

1. Pause and Reflect: Take a moment to observe your emotions.
2. Name the Emotion: Assign a label to what you’re feeling.
3. Examine the Root: Ask, “What is this emotion trying to tell me?”
4. Define Peace: Complete the sentence, “I can move forward feeling at peace with this decision because…”

Naming emotions creates clarity and space for constructive decision-making. “It’s in that simple act of creating just a little bit of space to observe your emotions that you can use them in a constructive way,” Michelle explains.

Michelle concludes by reframing emotions as allies rather than obstacles. By noticing and naming emotions, individuals can access a richer data set for decision-making.

“Emotions are simply another source of data that comes to you quickly,” she says. This data, when deciphered and integrated, can lead to more thoughtful and confident decisions.

• Emotions are signals providing valuable data for decision-making.
• Notice and name emotions to create space for reflection.
• Differentiate between acting from emotion and using emotion as a guide.
• Focus on controllable factors and let go of concerns outside your influence.

• Stephen Covey’s Circles of Control, Influence, and Concern
• Stanford Life Design Lab

• Michelle’s Stanford Continuing Studies course
• Check out Michelle’s self-paced course Decision Toolkit for Personal Decisions
• Her Decision Toolkit Coaches and Counselors virtual workshop on Maven

Michelle Florendo is a distinguished decision engineer and executive coach who specializes in helping individuals navigate complex decisions in both personal and professional spheres. With a Bachelor of Science in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford University and an MBA from UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business, Michelle employs a sophisticated blend of decision engineering, design thinking, and lean startup methodologies to assist her clients in charting their optimal path forward. She has guided hundreds of driven professionals in applying decision engineering principles to achieve greater clarity and reduce stress in their decision-making processes.

She currently teaches a decision-making course for 

Stanford Continuing Studies

 and has played a pivotal role in enhancing the curriculum on career decision-making in Stanford's renowned 

Design Your Life course

. Her expertise has been recognized by various prestigious organizations, as evidenced by her involvement with 

Seth Godin's altMBA program

, her founding membership in the 

Forbes Coaches Council

, and her position as a faculty coach for the 

Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute

. For those interested in exploring Michelle's coaching and speaking services further, additional information can be found on her professional website at 

poweredbydecisions.com

.

Michelle Florendo is a distinguished decision engineer and executive coach who specializes in helping individuals navigate complex decisions in both personal and professional spheres. With a Bachelor of Science in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford University and an MBA from UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business, Michelle employs a sophisticated blend of decision engineering, design thinking, and lean startup methodologies to assist her clients in charting their optimal path forward. She has guided hundreds of driven professionals in applying decision engineering principles to achieve greater clarity and reduce stress in their decision-making processes.

She currently teaches a decision-making course for Stanford Continuing Studies and has played a pivotal role in enhancing the curriculum on career decision-making in Stanford's renowned Design Your Life course. Her expertise has been recognized by various prestigious organizations, as evidenced by her involvement with Seth Godin's altMBA program, her founding membership in the Forbes Coaches Council, and her position as a faculty coach for the Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute. For those interested in exploring Michelle's coaching and speaking services further, additional information can be found on her professional website at poweredbydecisions.com.

Drawing on her decision-making expertise, Michelle used frameworks and emotional clarity to create space for constructive conversations with her family during this challenging time.

1. Introduction [00:00:00]
2. A Year of Pause and Reflection [00:01:00]
3. Planning an End-of-Life Retreat [00:05:00]
4. Facilitating Emotional Clarity [00:08:00]
5. The Four-Phase Framework for End-of-Life Planning [00:09:00]
6. The Role of Emotions in Decision-Making [00:11:00]
7. Decision-Making as an Ongoing Process [00:15:00]
8. Practical Advice for Navigating Family Decisions [00:22:00]
9. Honoring a Legacy of Agency [00:29:00]

This episode takes a deeply personal turn, offering a rare glimpse into how Michelle applied her professional insights to one of the most challenging and transformative moments of her life. Her decision to plan and facilitate an end-of-life retreat is a testament to the power of clarity, collaboration, and intention in guiding families through difficult transitions.

Michelle reflects on the emotional weight of this experience: “I hope this episode not only helps others navigate similar situations but also honors the memory of Joyce.” Whether you are facing a similar situation or seeking inspiration for navigating life’s complexities, this episode provides both practical advice and heartfelt insight.

Michelle begins by reflecting on her unexpected break from podcasting in 2023. Her mother-in-law Joyce, a vibrant and active 78-year-old, was diagnosed with stage-four pancreatic cancer—a diagnosis that redefined her priorities.

Michelle shares how she and her husband, as Joyce’s primary caregivers, faced a whirlwind of logistical and emotional challenges. Her background in decision-making became a key asset, but the personal nature of the situation introduced new complexities.

"I needed to trim down all of my obligations to really focus on my family," Michelle explains, emphasizing the importance of centering family and values during life’s most difficult transitions.

Michelle describes how her professional expertise inspired her to organize an end-of-life retreat for her mother-in-law. Combining reflection with celebration, the retreat gave the family an opportunity to make space for and honor Joyce’s wishes for her final months while also cherishing the time they had together.

During the retreat, Michelle began by giving everyone Post-its to write down thoughts, questions, and decisions they had been carrying. This exercise allowed the group to set these concerns aside temporarily, creating space for deeper conversations.

"I realized I was in a position to help my family have constructive conversations about how to approach the inevitable decisions that would need to come," Michelle explains. The retreat created a balance of joy and reflection, blending milestone celebrations with intentional planning.

At the heart of the retreat was a focus on emotional clarity. Michelle asked each family member to identify how they wanted to feel during the various stages of Joyce’s journey. This activity highlighted not only Joyce’s priorities but also the needs of her support circle.

For example, Joyce expressed a desire to feel unburdened and calm, while others emphasized wanting to feel helpful, supportive, and eventually at peace. Michelle notes that this focus on emotions allowed the family to align their decisions with shared priorities.

"One of the things that I’ve found, especially when it comes to personal decisions, is that it almost always ends up with, ‘Because we want to feel a certain way,’” she explains.

Michelle introduced a structured framework to guide the family through Joyce’s diagnosis:

1. Digesting the News: Addressing medical logistics, communicating with extended family, and absorbing the shock of the diagnosis.
2. Adjusting to Change: Preparing for the physical and emotional toll of treatment and adapting to the new reality.
3. Final Days: Focusing on comfort and presence during Joyce’s last moments.
4. Afterward: Supporting the surviving family and navigating the emotional and logistical aspects of her passing.

Michelle emphasized that each phase required unique considerations and allowed the family to clarify their priorities for each stage. “We needed to delineate the phases because different stages brought different decisions and emotional needs,” she explains.

Michelle explores how emotions play a central role in guiding decisions during challenging times. Rather than ignoring emotions, she views them as signals that point to deeper values and needs.

This perspective proved vital when Joyce’s chemotherapy began to take a severe toll on her quality of life. The family revisited their earlier discussions and decided to transition to hospice care—a decision rooted in clarity about how Joyce and her family wanted to feel.

"The emotions surface because they often point to needs,” Michelle underscores.

Michelle highlights the dynamic nature of decision-making, particularly in emotionally complex situations. The family regularly revisited their priorities and adjusted their plans based on Joyce’s evolving needs.

For example, the clarity gained during the retreat provided a foundation for decisions made in the months that followed. Michelle emphasizes the importance of remaining flexible and building in checkpoints to reevaluate priorities.

"Anytime there might be big shifts in your objectives, the options, or what data you have, you have opportunities to make new decisions," she said.

Michelle offers actionable advice for those navigating similar challenges:

1. Ask Key Questions: Start with, “How do you want to feel?” to clarify priorities.
2. Externalize Thoughts: Write down emotions, questions, and decisions to unburden mental load.
3. Create Space for Rest: Balance heavy discussions with moments of joy and connection.
4. Collaborate with Empathy: Engage all stakeholders to ensure shared understanding and support.

"Even the simple question, ‘How do you want to feel?’ can be so powerful," Michelle notes.

The episode concludes with a heartfelt tribute to Joyce, celebrating her agency and courage. Michelle reflects on how Joyce’s ability to articulate her wishes inspired the family to approach life’s transitions with intention.

"She moved through her entire life with a sense of agency, an ability to articulate what she wanted, and to make decisions to bring that to fruition," Michelle says. Joyce’s story serves as a reminder of the power of clarity and choice in shaping life’s most meaningful moments.

• Emotional clarity serves as a guiding compass during difficult decisions.
• Decision-making frameworks provide structure for navigating complex situations.
• Collaboration and open communication transform tough conversations into moments of connection.
• Flexibility and checkpoints help adapt plans to evolving circumstances.

• Michelle’s Stanford Continuing Studies course
• Check out Michelle’s self-paced course Decision Toolkit for Personal Decisions
• Her Decision Toolkit Coaches and Counselors virtual workshop on Maven

Michelle Florendo is a distinguished decision engineer and executive coach who specializes in helping individuals navigate complex decisions in both personal and professional spheres. With a Bachelor of Science in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford University and an MBA from UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business, Michelle employs a sophisticated blend of decision engineering, design thinking, and lean startup methodologies to assist her clients in charting their optimal path forward. She has guided hundreds of driven professionals in applying decision engineering principles to achieve greater clarity and reduce stress in their decision-making processes.

She currently teaches a decision-making course for Stanford Continuing Studies and has played a pivotal role in enhancing the curriculum on career decision-making in Stanford's renowned Design Your Life course. Her expertise has been recognized by various prestigious organizations, as evidenced by her involvement with Seth Godin's altMBA program, her founding membership in the Forbes Coaches Council, and her position as a faculty coach for the Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute. For those interested in exploring Michelle's coaching and speaking services further, additional information can be found on her professional website at poweredbydecisions.com.

Decision-making is a fundamental part of our daily lives, yet many people find it increasingly challenging. In this episode, Michelle Florendo addresses a question from Jacob in New York about why decision-making feels so difficult and whether he's the only one who is having a hard time. 

Michelle shares her insights from years of coaching and teaching decision-making, revealing that many people face similar challenges but often hesitate to discuss them openly.

1. Introduction [00:00:00]
2. The Hidden Nature of Decision-Making Struggles [00:02:30]
3. Why Decision-Making is Hard: The Impact of Technology [00:05:45]
4. Decisions as Reflections of Identity [00:11:30]
5. The Influence of Social Media on Decision-Making [00:15:00]
6. The Erosion of Tolerance for Uncertainty [00:18:45]
7. Conclusion [00:22:30]

Michelle introduces the episode by addressing Jacob's question about why decision-making feels so difficult and whether he's alone in his struggles. She emphasizes that many people face similar challenges but often hesitate to discuss them openly. This reluctance to share difficulties with decision-making creates a false impression that others don't struggle, leading to feelings of isolation.

"Sometimes I feel like I'm terrible at decision-making. I spend a lot of time overthinking and straight-up agonizing over decisions. Am I the only one? Why are decisions so hard?" Michelle said, quoting Jacob’s question.

Michelle responds: "You are not alone. And thank you for asking the question." She explains that her experience in coaching and teaching decision-making has shown her how common these struggles are, despite the lack of public discourse on the topic.

Michelle shares an anecdote about a LinkedIn post she made asking about decision-making challenges. While the public thread received few responses, her direct messages were flooded with people sharing their struggles privately. This experience highlighted how many people are uncomfortable discussing their decision-making difficulties in public forums.

"I remember the public thread was like crickets. No one was responding. Maybe there were one or two responses... At the same time, I remember my DMs were blowing up," Michelle said. This stark contrast between public silence and private outpouring illustrates the hidden nature of decision-making struggles.

She explains that this reluctance to open up about decision-making challenges stems from societal expectations, particularly in corporate environments, where decision-making skills are often taken for granted. Many people assume they should already be proficient in decision-making, leading to a hesitancy to admit struggles or seek help. 

"Decision-making is often taken for granted. Decision-making is something that people assume you already should be good at," Michelle adds.

Michelle delves into how technology has significantly impacted our approach to decision-making. While technology has made more information readily accessible, it has also created new challenges:

1. Information Overload: The vast amount of available information can be overwhelming and lead to analysis paralysis.
2. Illusion of Perfect Knowledge: Easy access to information has created an unrealistic expectation that we should be able to predict and control outcomes perfectly.
3. Increased Pressure: The abundance of information has raised the perceived stakes of decisions, as people feel they should make the "best" choice with all the available data.

Michelle points out: "More data has seduced us into thinking that it's possible to have perfect data. There's this illusion that we should be able to control the outcomes of our decisions through pre-knowledge." This expectation of perfect knowledge and control sets an impossible standard for decision-makers.

She emphasizes that good decision-making isn't about predicting the future with certainty, but rather about managing uncertainty and risk effectively. Michelle states, "I'm here to tell you that good decision-making is not about clairvoyance. And if predicting the future or knowing the future is the standard you're holding yourself to, you're just setting yourself up for frustration and failure."

Michelle discusses how decisions have become more than just practical choices; they've become reflections of our identity. This shift has made decisions feel more high-stakes and emotionally charged. She references Barry Schwartz's book "The Paradox of Choice," explaining how decisions now often relate to higher-level needs like belonging and self-actualization, rather than just survival.

"Decisions are no longer just about fulfilling needs for survival. But now for fulfilling needs higher up on Maslow's hierarchy of needs like belonging and self-actualization. Decisions have become a vehicle for expressing identity," she explains. This transformation of decisions into expressions of identity adds emotional weight to our choices.

She further elaborates on how this change has intensified the decision-making process: "The rise of social media has made this even more intense. As our lives and the decisions within them have become more public and visible." The increased visibility of our choices amplifies the pressure to make decisions that align with our desired identity and social image.

Michelle explores how social media has intensified the pressure around decision-making:

1. Increased Visibility: Our decisions are now more visible to a wider audience, increasing the perceived importance of each choice.
2. Comparison: We're constantly exposed to others' decisions, which can lead to doubt and second-guessing our own choices.
3. External Judgment: The fear of what others might think adds weight to our decisions.
4. Information Overload: Social media exposes us to an overwhelming array of possibilities and options.

"We worry about our decisions, not just for how they impact us. But for how other people may view them. Including your old crush from high school who might've seen that post about your new job," Michelle explains. 

She stresses the importance of developing stronger internal judgment to navigate these external influences effectively. Michelle advises: "It's even more important to develop stronger internal judgment in the face of external influences. Decision science has been used to design the social media apps that demand our attention... I think it's time to use decision science to improve the experience of decision makers instead of manipulating them."

Michelle explains how technological advances have reduced our tolerance for uncertainty and open-ended situations:

1. Instant Gratification: The ability to get immediate answers and quick solutions has decreased our patience for uncertainty.
2. Reduced Practice: We have fewer opportunities to practice sitting with tension and uncertainty.
3. Increased Anxiety: Lower tolerance for uncertainty leads to increased anxiety when faced with decisions.

Michelle reflects on the change: "We live in an on-demand era. And with its close to instant gratification, it has decimated our ability to sit with the absence of resolution." 

This diminished capacity to handle uncertainty makes decision-making more challenging and anxiety-inducing. She emphasizes the importance of building the "muscle" to tolerate uncertainty and tension, which can lead to more effective decision-making over time. 

"Sitting with tension, as Seth Godin used to call it in the altMBA, is a muscle. If we are not continually exercising it and building it, it atrophies,” Michelle adds.

Michelle concludes by reassuring listeners that if they find decision-making difficult, they're not alone and it's not their fault. She acknowledges the many factors that contribute to making decision-making challenging in today's world. Michelle expresses hope that by understanding these challenges and learning effective frameworks, people can experience relief and make decisions more easily.

"So if you've ever had that thought. Asking. Why is this so hard? And wondering, ‘Am I the only one?’ I want you to know. You're not alone. And it's not your fault," she stresses. 

• Many people struggle with decision-making but hesitate to discuss it openly.
• Technology has made more information available but has also created new challenges in decision-making.
• Decisions have become reflections of identity, making them feel more high-stakes.
• Social media has intensified the pressure around decision-making by increasing visibility and comparison.
• Our tolerance for uncertainty has decreased due to technological advances and instant gratification culture.
• Building the ability to tolerate uncertainty is crucial for effective decision-making.
• Understanding the challenges of modern decision-making can provide relief and lead to more effective strategies.

• "The Paradox of Choice" by Barry Schwartz
• “Hierarchy of Needs” by Maslow
• Seth Godin’s altMBA program

• Michelle’s Stanford Continuing Studies course
• Check out Michelle’s self-paced course Decision Toolkit for Personal Decisions
• Her Decision Toolkit Coaches and Counselors virtual workshop on Maven

Michelle Florendo is a distinguished decision engineer and executive coach who specializes in helping individuals navigate complex decisions in both personal and professional spheres. With a Bachelor of Science in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford University and an MBA from UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business, Michelle employs a sophisticated blend of decision engineering, design thinking, and lean startup methodologies to assist her clients in charting their optimal path forward. She has guided hundreds of driven professionals in applying decision engineering principles to achieve greater clarity and reduce stress in their decision-making processes.

She currently teaches a decision-making course for Stanford Continuing Studies and has played a pivotal role in enhancing the curriculum on career decision-making in Stanford's renowned Design Your Life course. Her expertise has been recognized by various prestigious organizations, as evidenced by her involvement with Seth Godin's altMBA program, her founding membership in the Forbes Coaches Council, and her position as a faculty coach for the Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute. For those interested in exploring Michelle's coaching and speaking services further, additional information can be found on her professional website at poweredbydecisions.com.

Michelle Florendo is a distinguished decision engineer and executive coach who specializes in helping individuals navigate complex decisions in both personal and professional spheres. With a Bachelor of Science in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford University and an MBA from UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business, Michelle employs a sophisticated blend of decision engineering, design thinking, and lean startup methodologies to assist her clients in charting their optimal path forward. She has guided hundreds of driven professionals in applying decision engineering principles to achieve greater clarity and reduce stress in their decision-making processes.

She currently teaches a decision-making course for Stanford Continuing Studies and has played a pivotal role in enhancing the curriculum on career decision-making in Stanford's renowned Design Your Life course. Her expertise has been recognized by various prestigious organizations, as evidenced by her involvement with Seth Godin's altMBA program, her founding membership in the Forbes Coaches Council, and her position as a faculty coach for the Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute. For those interested in exploring Michelle's coaching and speaking services further, additional information can be found on her professional website at poweredbydecisions.com.

In this special episode, Michelle Florendo reflects on five years of hosting "Ask a Decision Engineer." Joined by her friend Shanice Webb, Michelle shares insights about the podcast's evolution from a maternity leave project to an international resource for decision-making advice. They discuss overcoming fears, measuring impact, and the journey of adapting content to fit a global audience. Through moments of vulnerability, Michelle illustrates the importance of determination and continuous growth in her work.

What began as a simple experiment during maternity leave has evolved into an invaluable resource for listeners around the world. In this episode, Michelle candidly explores the emotional highs and lows of building the podcast, from the validation she received from decision-making experts to the challenges of balancing work, family, and personal growth. Michelle and Shanice also discuss how impactful moments, like a listener binge-listening to episodes, inspired Michelle to push past doubts and continue making a difference.

This reflective episode gives listeners a behind-the-scenes look at the evolution of Ask a Decision Engineer and provides valuable insights into how Michelle measures success beyond metrics. The conversation covers themes such as recognizing limits, prioritizing self-compassion, and creating meaningful content that reaches people where they are. Michelle also shares a preview of what’s to come in Season 5, including new frameworks, listener questions, and stories from her own decision-making experiences.

Table of Contents

1. Introduction and Origins [00:00:00] 
2. Unexpected Reach and Impact [00:02:30]
3. Pushing Through Fear [00:04:30] 
4. Measuring Impact [00:09:00] 
5. Seasons and Structure [00:12:00] 
6. Evolution and Growth [00:13:30] 
7. How to Engage with the Podcast [00:16:00] 
8. Looking Ahead to Season 5 [00:19:00]

Introduction and Origins [00:00:00] 
Michelle begins by setting the stage for this reflective episode, inviting Shanice Webb to help unpack the podcast’s journey. She recounts how it all started as a test during a podcasting workshop, when she was expecting her second child. A wise friend suggested podcasting over writing a book, given the looming sleep deprivation. Michelle recorded five prototype episodes, queued them up, and went on maternity leave. To her surprise, the episodes resonated with listeners, motivating her to continue producing more content.

"I come across a lot of people who may feel stressed out, whether it's about decision-making in general or about a particular decision that they need to make. Maybe it's keeping them up at night. Maybe they're feeling really stuck, maybe they're feeling overwhelmed, and my hope is that this podcast can provide a way that they can feel more equipped to deal with whatever decision they have in front of them," Michelle revealed.

Reflecting on the early days, Michelle describes the chaos of balancing a newborn and a toddler while the pandemic unfolded. Despite the challenges, she felt inspired to keep going because of the positive feedback. The organic growth of the podcast reaffirmed that even simple prototypes could lead to something impactful. “People enjoyed it and wanted more,” she shares, underscoring the unexpected success that made her realize how significant her content had become.

Michelle shares how reviewing the podcast's stats revealed a global reach she hadn’t anticipated. Listeners from countries like Brazil, India, Australia, and various parts of Europe regularly tuned in. This unexpected international audience helped Michelle broaden her perspective and realize that decision-making issues are universal, transcending cultural and professional boundaries. She notes, “Seeing that heat map with listeners from all over the world was kind of fun and humbling.”

Her global impact also prompted a shift in how she presented content. As someone with a U.S. tech background, she had to adjust her lens to ensure the podcast was accessible and relevant worldwide. This awareness challenged her to avoid U.S.-centric perspectives and think inclusively. Michelle emphasizes the importance of reaching people beyond one-on-one coaching, recognizing that her podcast could democratize decision-making knowledge.

"I measure success in terms of like, how many people can I reach? How many people can I reach and provide with even like one little gem or one little nugget that helps start to shift how they approach decision making," she adds.

Pushing Through Fear [00:04:30]
A major turning point in Michelle’s journey came when a respected professor and former president of the Decision Analysis Society reached out with an unexpected email. He expressed admiration for the podcast, noting how her emphasis on the emotional components of decision-making enriched the field. Michelle recalls, “I remember reading that email and crying because it dispelled the fear I had: Who am I to be doing this?” This validation was profound, showing her that her contributions mattered.

Despite her expertise, Michelle has often battled imposter syndrome, questioning whether she was qualified to lead conversations about decision-making. However, the professor’s encouragement changed everything. He even connected her with professional organizations, leading to her involvement with the Society of Decision Professionals, where she now chairs the decision education interest group. This journey illustrates how external validation and community can play crucial roles in pushing through self-doubt.

Measuring Impact [00:09:00] 
Michelle admits that the success of the podcast has taken on a deeper meaning than just numbers. Initially, she was surprised by the over 20,000 listens the podcast accumulated, an achievement that would have been impossible through one-on-one coaching, especially with her parenting responsibilities. Yet, she highlights that true success lies in the impact—whether she provides even “one little gem or nugget” that shifts someone’s decision-making approach.

For Michelle, impact stories have been far more rewarding than metrics. She shares, “I still get emails about people binge-listening, devouring it like that professor did. It tells me to keep going, that there’s something here.” Her dedication to reaching people during a period when she couldn’t travel for speaking engagements exemplifies how accessible content can create lasting influence.

Seasons and Structure [00:12:00] 
Balancing podcasting with family life, especially during the pandemic, required strategic thinking. Michelle’s solution was to adopt a seasonal structure, allowing her to manage her capacity and give her best. “Sometimes I have to say no to be able to say yes later,” she explains, emphasizing the importance of prioritization. This approach helped her maintain energy and creativity, even amidst the demands of raising two young children.

Michelle also shares that 2023 was a year when she had to pause podcasting due to overwhelming responsibilities. Recognizing limitations and giving herself grace became essential. Her story resonates with anyone juggling multiple roles and emphasizes that it’s okay to step back to recharge. She hopes that her transparency about these challenges empowers others to be kinder to themselves.

Evolution and Growth [00:13:30] 
Reflecting on the podcast’s evolution, Michelle acknowledges the growth in both her content and herself. Early episodes often make her cringe, but she chooses to keep them available as a testament to her ongoing learning journey. She explains, “I’m still learning, and that’s okay. I don’t know everything about decision-making, and that’s part of why I bring other experts onto the podcast.” Her approach mirrors the core tenet of self-compassion in decision-making.

Michelle’s seasons reflect her audience’s needs: Season 2 offered practical “painkiller” tips for urgent decisions, Season 3 explored emotional complexities, and Season 4 featured guest experts. This season-based structure allowed her to adapt and experiment, demonstrating how even decision engineers evolve. She invites listeners to witness her growth, emphasizing that every decision-maker is on a lifelong journey of improvement.

Michelle offers listeners guidance on how to engage with her content based on their needs. For those experiencing decision-related stress or needing immediate solutions, she recommends Season 2, where she shares practical, step-by-step advice. “If you need a painkiller, Season 2 is for you,” she says. This season provides concrete tools to navigate pressing decisions effectively.

For a broader perspective on decision-making, Season 4 showcases best practices and expert interviews, while Season 3 dives into the emotional aspects that often complicate choices. Michelle encourages listeners to start where they feel most drawn, offering flexibility in engagement. She concludes with a coaching mindset, “Meet yourself where you are and choose what serves you best.”

• Season 2: For immediate decision-making help ("painkiller")
• Season 3: For understanding the emotional side of decision-making
  Season 4: For broader perspectives and best practices
• Current Season: Start here for the latest insights

Looking Ahead [00:19:00] 
Season 5 promises to be an exciting blend of new content and reflective insights. Michelle will answer listener questions collected over the years and share how she’s applied decision-making frameworks in her own life. She teases the introduction of new models developed in response to listener feedback and hints at guest appearances that will expand on different decision-making angles. “I’ve learned so much from listeners’ questions, and this season is about giving back,” she says.

Listeners can look forward to a season that explores real-world applications of decision theories and frameworks, with practical examples from Michelle’s experiences. By featuring guest experts and discussing emerging topics, she aims to keep the content fresh and engaging. Season 5 is set to be a rich resource for anyone looking to deepen their understanding of decision-making.

Season 5 will feature:

• Answers to questions received over the years
• Personal applications of frameworks
• New frameworks developed from listener questions
• Guest conversations on various aspects of decision-making

• Sometimes the desire to help others has to be bigger than our fears - as Michelle discovered when her imposter syndrome met with a professor's unexpected validation
• Life happens (like having two kids under four during a pandemic!) and it's okay to structure your work around it rather than the other way around
• Whether you need immediate help with a decision, want to understand the emotional side, or are looking to learn from experts, there's a season designed for you
• Just like decision-making itself, creating content about decisions is a journey of constant learning - Michelle still cringes at some old episodes, and that's perfectly okay

Michelle Florendo is a distinguished decision engineer and executive coach who specializes in helping individuals navigate complex decisions in both personal and professional spheres. With a Bachelor of Science in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford University and an MBA from UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business, Michelle employs a sophisticated blend of decision engineering, design thinking, and lean startup methodologies to assist her clients in charting their optimal path forward. She has guided hundreds of driven professionals in applying decision engineering principles to achieve greater clarity and reduce stress in their decision-making processes.

She currently teaches a decision-making course for Stanford Continuing Studies and has played a pivotal role in enhancing the curriculum on career decision-making in Stanford's renowned Design Your Life course. Her expertise has been recognized by various prestigious organizations, as evidenced by her involvement with Seth Godin's altMBA program, her founding membership in the Forbes Coaches Council, and her position as a faculty coach for the Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute. For those interested in exploring Michelle's coaching and speaking services further, additional information can be found on her professional website at michelleflorendo.com.

• Management Leadership for Tomorrow's Senior Executive Leader Fellowship
• Decision Analysis Society
• Society of Decision Professionals
• Society of Decision Professionals - Decision Education Interest Group
• Akimbo Podcasting Workshop

• Michelle’s Stanford Continuing Studies course
• Check out Michelle’s self-paced course Decision Toolkit for Personal Decisions
• Her Decision Toolkit Coaches and Counselors virtual workshop on Maven
• Speaking/Workshops: Available for organizations

Michelle Florendo is a distinguished decision engineer and executive coach who specializes in helping individuals navigate complex decisions in both personal and professional spheres. With a Bachelor of Science in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford University and an MBA from UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business, Michelle employs a sophisticated blend of decision engineering, design thinking, and lean startup methodologies to assist her clients in charting their optimal path forward. She has guided hundreds of driven professionals in applying decision engineering principles to achieve greater clarity and reduce stress in their decision-making processes.

She currently teaches a decision-making course for Stanford Continuing Studies and has played a pivotal role in enhancing the curriculum on career decision-making in Stanford's renowned Design Your Life course. Her expertise has been recognized by various prestigious organizations, as evidenced by her involvement with Seth Godin's altMBA program, her founding membership in the Forbes Coaches Council, and her position as a faculty coach for the Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute. For those interested in exploring Michelle's coaching and speaking services further, additional information can be found on her professional website at poweredbydecisions.com.

New episodes drop in Fall 2024 – subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

Michelle Florendo is a distinguished decision engineer and executive coach who specializes in helping individuals navigate complex decisions in both personal and professional spheres. With a Bachelor of Science in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford University and an MBA from UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business, Michelle employs a sophisticated blend of decision engineering, design thinking, and lean startup methodologies to assist her clients in charting their optimal path forward. She has guided hundreds of driven professionals in applying decision engineering principles to achieve greater clarity and reduce stress in their decision-making processes.

She currently teaches a decision-making course for Stanford Continuing Studies and has played a pivotal role in enhancing the curriculum on career decision-making in Stanford's renowned Design Your Life course. Her expertise has been recognized by various prestigious organizations, as evidenced by her involvement with Seth Godin's altMBA program, her founding membership in the Forbes Coaches Council, and her position as a faculty coach for the Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute. For those interested in exploring Michelle's coaching and speaking services further, additional information can be found on her professional website at poweredbydecisions.com.

So often in the midst of change or the unknown where our mind goes first is what are we going to do? 

But what if the key to being able to navigate change and uncertainty was less about doing, but rather a way of being? 

Today, I'm in conversation with April Rinne, a futurist, speaker, and author of the book, Flux: 8 Superpowers For Thriving In Constant Change, where she shares what she has found is the most effective way for navigating the current world of rapidly accelerating unexpected change. 

We talk about the illusion that keeps us from seeing things as they are, why cultivating a flux mindset now is more important than ever before, and some of the superpowers that can empower you when responding to change and making decisions.

Topics Covered

03:03 How did you start down this path

04:08 April's three lenses on change

07:14 Shifting from doing to becoming

08:16 Are you viewing change with hope or fear?

11:33 We don't like change that we can't control

13:05 Now, more than ever, we need to learn how to be with change

16:18 The history of the illusion of control

17:40 What would be possible when we choose to lift the veil

20:24 Flux mindset as a key for navigating change

21:56 How does Flux mindset relate to Growth mindset

23:15 The 8 superpowers of the Flux mindset

25:24 The superpower that makes you cringe may point to where your relationship to 

change needs extra attention

26:19 Superpower 1: Run slower

26:44 Superpower 2: See what's invisible

27:09 Superpower 3: Get lost

27:33 Superpower 4: Start with trust

28:04 Superpower 5: Know your enough

28:10 Superpower 6: Create your portfolio career

28:40 Superpower 7: Be all the more human

28:53 Superpower 8: Let go of the future

29:44 Know your enough / Know you're enough

38:10 The benefits of embracing getting lost

43:10 Parting words

Guest Bio

April Rinne is a “change navigator,” speaker, investor, and adventurer whose work and travels in more than 100 countries have given her a front-row seat to a world in flux. She is ranked one of the 50 leading female futurists in the world by Forbes and is a Harvard Law School graduate, a Young Global Leader at the World Economic Forum, a Fulbright Scholar, a member of the Silicon Guild, and the author of Flux: 8 Superpowers for Thriving in Constant Change. April is a trusted advisor to well-known startups, companies, financial institutions, nonprofits, think tanks, and governments worldwide, including Airbnb, Nike, Intuit, the World Bank, the Inter-American Development Bank, AnyRoad, and Unsettled as well as governments ranging from Singapore to South Africa, Canada to Colombia, and Italy to India. Earlier in life she was a global development executive, an international microfinance lawyer, and a hiking guide. As a certified yoga teacher, she can often be found upside-down, doing handstands around the world.

Resources

• Flux: 8 Superpowers for Thriving in Constant Change

To learn more from Michelle about decision making, check out

• The Ask A Decision Engineer website
• Her Stanford Continuing Studies course
• Her self-paced course Decision Toolkit for Personal Decisions
• Her Decision Toolkit for Coaches and Counselors virtual workshop on Maven

Michelle Florendo is a distinguished decision engineer and executive coach who specializes in helping individuals navigate complex decisions in both personal and professional spheres. With a Bachelor of Science in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford University and an MBA from UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business, Michelle employs a sophisticated blend of decision engineering, design thinking, and lean startup methodologies to assist her clients in charting their optimal path forward. She has guided hundreds of driven professionals in applying decision engineering principles to achieve greater clarity and reduce stress in their decision-making processes.

She currently teaches a decision-making course for Stanford Continuing Studies and has played a pivotal role in enhancing the curriculum on career decision-making in Stanford's renowned Design Your Life course. Her expertise has been recognized by various prestigious organizations, as evidenced by her involvement with Seth Godin's altMBA program, her founding membership in the Forbes Coaches Council, and her position as a faculty coach for the Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute. For those interested in exploring Michelle's coaching and speaking services further, additional information can be found on her professional website at poweredbydecisions.com.

Whenever I teach about decision making, inevitably, the comment comes up, "These frameworks are great and all, but what do I do about the other people in the room?" 

Decision making in groups definitely adds a layer of complexity. That's why I invited Katherine Rosback, an expert decision and risk analysis facilitator and a colleague of mine from the Society of Decision Professionals onto the show.

We'll be talking about the science behind asking questions, how to lay the groundwork for shifting someone's perspective, and strategies for facilitating more effective meetings. 

Topics Covered

02:35 How Katherine came to do this work

4:28 What do I do about organizational politics?

5:14 The science behind questioning

9:16 Look at the system, not the individual

11:07 Facilitate what is happening, not what you think ought to be happening

12:08 Asking > Telling

14:10 The mountain peak vs the tectonic plates

15:10 The bridging technique

20:42 Center meetings around questions instead of objectives

24:20 Meetings are the most expensive form of communication

26:24 How to think about who should be in the room

30:33 Be mindful about ensuring people are heard

32:54 After we've solicited these different perspectives, then what?

35:13 Islands, bananas, and keeping the boat from turning around

38:30 Two key lessons to take away

Guest Bio

Katherine Rosback is an expert in coaching decision and problem-solving teams and facilitating the messy, ambiguous but must-succeed meeting. She has a BS in Chemical Engineering and an MA in Organizational Communication. Katherine has over 25 years’ experience facilitating decision teams, cross-functional strategic planning workshops, and teaching team facilitators and decision boards how to improve decision quality by asking the better question and navigate the inevitable behavioral complexities. Katherine works with Fortune 500 industries such as airline, oil & gas, and pharma. She is the author of Asking is Better than Telling and host of the podcast, What’s Another Question.

Resources

• Asking is Better Than Telling book
• Katherine’s website

To learn more from Michelle about decision making, check out

• The Ask A Decision Engineer website
• Her Stanford Continuing Studies course
• Her self-paced course Decision Toolkit for Personal Decisions
• Her Decision Toolkit for Coaches and Counselors virtual workshop on Maven

Michelle Florendo is a distinguished decision engineer and executive coach who specializes in helping individuals navigate complex decisions in both personal and professional spheres. With a Bachelor of Science in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford University and an MBA from UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business, Michelle employs a sophisticated blend of decision engineering, design thinking, and lean startup methodologies to assist her clients in charting their optimal path forward. She has guided hundreds of driven professionals in applying decision engineering principles to achieve greater clarity and reduce stress in their decision-making processes.

She currently teaches a decision-making course for Stanford Continuing Studies and has played a pivotal role in enhancing the curriculum on career decision-making in Stanford's renowned Design Your Life course. Her expertise has been recognized by various prestigious organizations, as evidenced by her involvement with Seth Godin's altMBA program, her founding membership in the Forbes Coaches Council, and her position as a faculty coach for the Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute. For those interested in exploring Michelle's coaching and speaking services further, additional information can be found on her professional website at poweredbydecisions.com.

In all my years of teaching about decision making, no topic generates more angst than the need to know. But how do you know what you know? How do you know when you know what you know? And how do you integrate this knowing into some of the most important decisions of your life?

In this episode, I invited Dave Evans onto the show to talk all about these topics of knowing and discernment. Dave is the co-author of Designing Your Life and Designing Your New Work Life. He co-founded the Stanford Life Design lab and holds the title of discernment lead for a social impact accelerator.

He shares a number of things he's learned from sitting with thousands of lives via the Designing Your Life programs, including how to go beyond cognitive knowing, the important distinction between certainty and faith, how to approach when things go wrong, and exercises for honing your discernment.

Topics Covered

1:01 A story of how Dave ran smack up against this discernment topic

2:27 It's ok to not have it all figured out

4:40 Defining discernment

5:58 You're not just a brain on a transport system

7:36 Overcoming resistance to tapping into the emotional center of knowing

10:11 The peak-knowing and trough-knowing exercise

10:59 Your brain announced it, but your brain didn't do it

12:21 The importance of articulating and reflecting on what's happening

12:54 Surrogation vs. analysis

14:47 We are humans, not robots

15:26 There is no knowing. Simply give it your best possible shot.

17:40 But what about when things go wrong?

21:16 Where the bias toward causality gets us in trouble

22:46 The falsehood of knowing and distinction between certainty and faith

24:55 The philosophical underpinnings of human-centered design

26:05 Faith and acceptance

28:41 How growth and collaboration factors into this

30:50 Most big decisions are a bet on your future self

33:48 Improve decision making by using multiple ways of knowing

34:10 The Odyssey plan as a tool for tapping into how various futures feel

36:01 In hard decision making, it's not about deciding the right thing

38:19 There's no elimination of risk, just reduction of risk. Know your threshold.

41:14 How to tune into other ways of knowing

42:51 Three levels of discernment: transaction, practice, and formation

45:08 The be-do-become cycle

Guest Bio

From saving the seals to solving the energy crisis, from imagining mice to redefining software — Dave’s been on a mission, including helping others to find theirs.

Starting at Stanford in the 70’s with dreams of following Jacques Cousteau as a marine biologist, Dave realized (a bit late) that he was lousy at it and shifted to mechanical engineering with an eye on the energy problem. After four years in alternative energy, it was clear that this idea’s time hadn’t come yet. So while en route to biomedical engineering, Dave accepted an invitation to work for Apple, where he led the mouse team and introduced laser printing to the masses. When Dave’s boss at Apple left to start Electronic Arts, Dave joined as the company’s first VP of Talent, dedicated to making “software worthy of the minds that use it.”

Having participated in forming the corporate cultures at Apple and EA, Dave decided his best work was in helping organizations build creative environments where people could do great work and love doing it. So he went out on his own working with start-up teams, large corporate executives, non-profit leaders, and countless young adults. They were all asking the same question. “What should I do with my life?” Helping people get traction on that question finally took Dave first to Cal and then Stanford, where Dave is co-founder of the Stanford Life Design Lab in the Stanford Design Program.

Dave and his partner Bill Burnett made their popular Stanford course Designing Your Life into a New York Times #1 Bestselling book of the same name, released in September 2016, followed by Designing Your Work Life in February 2020 and Designing Your New Work Life in October 2021.

Dave holds a BS and MS in Mechanical Engineering from Stanford and a graduate diploma in Contemplative Spirituality from San Francisco Theological Seminary.

Resources

• Designing Your Life website
• Designing Your Life book
• Designing Your *New Work Life book

To learn more from Michelle about decision making, check out

• The Ask A Decision Engineer website
• Her Stanford Continuing Studies course
• Her self-paced course Decision Toolkit for Personal Decisions
• Her Decision Toolkit for Coaches and Counselors virtual workshop on Maven

Michelle Florendo is a distinguished decision engineer and executive coach who specializes in helping individuals navigate complex decisions in both personal and professional spheres. With a Bachelor of Science in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford University and an MBA from UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business, Michelle employs a sophisticated blend of decision engineering, design thinking, and lean startup methodologies to assist her clients in charting their optimal path forward. She has guided hundreds of driven professionals in applying decision engineering principles to achieve greater clarity and reduce stress in their decision-making processes.

She currently teaches a decision-making course for Stanford Continuing Studies and has played a pivotal role in enhancing the curriculum on career decision-making in Stanford's renowned Design Your Life course. Her expertise has been recognized by various prestigious organizations, as evidenced by her involvement with Seth Godin's altMBA program, her founding membership in the Forbes Coaches Council, and her position as a faculty coach for the Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute. For those interested in exploring Michelle's coaching and speaking services further, additional information can be found on her professional website at poweredbydecisions.com.