Audio Branding

“And it’s also a progression, right, that you don’t know why that progression did it for you. Like, there is a moment in this one song by Manchester Orchestra where they hit this C [note], and I, the first time I listened to it, just ugly cried, and I had no idea what they were saying because I wasn’t listening. It’s this one note, and the way they hit it as like, a quote, like just as a unit, as a band, they come in together, and it just does something in me. And I recognize that I then hold the power to be able to do that when I create content.” – Matt Borck

This episode is the second half of my conversation with Partner, Chief Listening Officer, and co-founder of The One Group Agency, Matt Borck, as we discuss Matt’s experience with the healing power of music and his strategies for breaking through social media algorithms to reach listeners.

And if you like what you hear and you want to support this podcast, there are a bunch of ways to do that at audiobrandingpodcast.com, including subscribing to the YouTube channel, the newsletter, writing a review, or buying me a coffee. Because this takes a lot of coffee. Thanks so much.

(00:00) – The Emotional Power of Music

The second half of our conversation starts as Matt shares his thoughts on the connection sound fosters between people, and how AI fits into his branding strategy. “People want to get to know the human behind the brands,” he explains. “They need to feel that moment. That’s why I encourage people [to] get the people that you’re working with to do the voiceover if they’re comfortable, and if they’re not, kind of choose somebody else that’s close to it as best as you can. And at this point in my life, AI would be the last resort.” We discuss his experience with the healing power of sound, and the backdrop it forms to our lives and memories. “People talk about having a soundtrack to their life,” Matt says. “They’re able to look back and go, oh, I remember, right. I remember exactly where I was when that song came on. I’m actually better at that than I am at remembering my own memories.”

(14:30) – Authenticity in Storytelling

Matt shares a clip from a travel tourism project in Bermuda, and we discuss the dangers of letting social media be a substitute for connecting with the audience. “That aspect,” he says, “I really feel is something that is disheartening. I feel like we’re not actually honoring the audiences. What we’re doing is just creating a whack load of slop and hoping that at one point somebody bites. But is our whole intent then of being on social just to sell?” We talk more about the role of social media and the algorithm in marketing, and the value of creating trust with the listener. “Being able to build that trust,” he explains, “what ends up happening is… they’re going to come back and become your greatest marketing, because they’re going to say it’s unbelievable. It was worth every penny.”

(28:25) – Creating Genuine Connections

As our conversation comes to a close, we talk about the challenge of reaching out to different listener demographics, not all of whom are on every social media network. “The way that I talk to my daughters is completely different than the way that I’ll talk to, say, somebody in their 60s,” he explains. “But yet at the same time, we might have a product that might work for both. It’s just going to completely fall flat with one, so which one are you willing to leave?” Matt tells listeners how they can get in touch, and shares his thoughts on the power of sound in our lives. “There are moments where I’ve walked into our living room and a song has come on,” he says, “and what it’s done in that moment has been very healing… It’s been there for me to feel. It’s been there for me to encourage emotions to come out. It’s been there for me with groups to celebrate. It’s been there for me to just sit in the silence of something. Like, there is so much that it has been there. And I think of going back to the movie that you love and putting it on mute, and I can’t imagine my life on mute. I just can’t.”

Episode Summary

• We discuss how music helps listeners process their emotions.
• The importance of real voices in branding and marketing.
• Matt talks about the therapeutic aspects of music and sound.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

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Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“That’s sort of how we, like, when we started the agency, then we started with just the two of us, and my role alongside Jared was everything. We did everything. And then as we expanded and grew, like, we realized, actually, like, not only my partner at the agency, but I am the chief listening officer. It starts with listening, and everything flows from there. And I think that one thing that makes our agency unique is I’ve worked with every other agency, like when we worked as creators, and we were getting hired. So you see the uniqueness of, and I’ll actually even say too, like, the power of listening, and I think that’s something that, again, going back to what I say is, I can say that, like, Jodi, I see you, or I can say, Jodi, like, I see you. And there is a massive difference. And when we can take our brands, our business, or the people that we work with and say, like, I really see you, then we start creating content, including brand music.” – Matt Borck

This episode’s guest is a partner, Chief Listening Officer, and co-founder of The One Group Agency. Driven by a deep curiosity about human behavior, he believes that companies must put their audiences first, speaking with them rather than shouting at them. Using empathy and deep listening to find the human truths buried beneath standard data, he helps organizations transition marketing teams from basic internal request departments into true strategic business partners.

His name is Matt Borck, and if you’re tired of chasing empty metrics and want to build genuine, profitable relationships, Matt’s perspective shows that it all starts with listening.

And if you like what you hear and you want to support this podcast, there are a bunch of ways to do that at audiobrandingpodcast.com, including subscribing to the YouTube channel, the newsletter, writing a review, or buying me a coffee. Because this takes a lot of coffee. Thanks so much.

(00:00) – The Importance of Listening

Our conversation starts with Matt’s earliest memories of music, and how much the power of sound influenced him as a child. “As a kid,” he recalls, “I always felt music that’s just… even now, even as I say it, like, I get shivers. I. When I would hear something, I felt it, and I felt what my nervous system was doing.” He shares more about his journey from music to marketing, and how his role as the One Group Agency’s chief listening officer evolved. “Great listeners don’t say they’re great listeners,” he adds. “Usually people tell you you’re a great listener. But one of the things it taught me so much about is how to truly be present, how to make [and] save space, how to truly listen.”

(13:18) – From Music to Marketing

Our conversation turns to Matt’s approach to harnessing the emotional power of sound in branding to build a sense of trust with listeners. “That’s where I would get to know as best as I can and choose something that also doesn’t feel out of place with the content that we’ve created,” he explains, “but it makes you feel something. If I can instantly put you at ease, I believe that you’ll be prepared for the rest of what we’ve got.” We discuss his work on a new study that focuses on music, community, and culture, and how he reaches beyond his own perspective to connect with his audience. “If I’m sent something to review from the agency,” he explains, “and, all of a sudden, I review it, and it doesn’t do anything for me, that’s actually a good thing… It takes me a little bit more to get into because it’s not my natural style, but if I want to honor the target audience, I’ve got to get over myself.”

(26:22) – AI and the Future of Voice

As the first half of our discussion wraps up, Matt talks about his two daughters and the role of music in their lives, and he illustrates a point about AI’s uncanny perfection with a story about U2’s concerts after they went big. “They were trying to figure out a way to get that [early] connection back,” he says. “And so they staged things like little screw-ups in their set or like an amp breaking, where they had to replace an amp. But what it did was it made them human again.” We talk about AI’s role in sound and audio branding, and the subtle imperfections that help set human performances apart. “We can train [AI] to do things like that,” he explains, “but it’s not the same, where, even the breath that you took, like, there are different breathing patterns that we all do as human beings.”

Episode Summary

• Matt discusses how deep listening shapes marketing strategies.
• Matt explains his transition from musician to marketing expert.
• Discussion on the impact of AI in voiceover and sound branding.

Tune in for next week’s episode as we continue discussing AI’s role in sonic branding, Matt’s latest musical and marketing projects, and his approach to building an authentic brand strategy.

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“I would say they really need to not position themselves as a recording studio or a music studio, but to position themselves as a sonic branding agency and to understand that the first, most important part of the process is understanding the brand that you’re working with. If you’re coming into the industry as a freelance composer and that’s your approach, I’d suggest trying to work with a sonic branding agency at first to understand the process, then maybe venturing off and figuring it out by yourself. But we’re not a music studio. That’s a position I think is important to understand.” – Sami El-Quqa

This episode is the second half of my conversation with the CEO of MusicGrid, Sami El-Quqa, as we discuss how he works to incorporate visual and sonic elements into a unified marketing approach, the role that he sees AI playing in the industry as it starts to compete with licensed music, and which companies he believes can benefit most from an audio-focused brand strategy.

And if you like what you hear and you want to support this podcast, there are a bunch of ways to do that at audiobrandingpodcast.com, including subscribing to the YouTube channel, the newsletter, writing a review, or buying me a coffee. Because this takes a lot of coffee. Thanks so much.

(00:00) – Positioning in Sonic Branding

As our conversation continues, Sami tells us about his work with MENA-based airline Flyna, and how he created a unified sonic brand across every aspect of the customer experience. “It’s a lot more than just a sonic logo,” he says, “which is like that short piece of music, or a sonic DNA track, an extended brand anthem. We’re creating everything from the boarding music, and the boarding music changes depending on where the plane is flying.” We discuss his workshop approach to building a brand and the process of aligning an effective sonic strategy to the client’s brand image. “It’s important to try to remove yourself emotionally from how you’re reacting to the music,” Sami explains, “to sit back, to give it a few days. We always think it’s a good idea to let the music resonate for a little bit and then come back and really try to analyze if it fits the brand, if it fits the consumer or not.”

(09:48) – AI’s Role in Sonic Branding

We discuss his company’s work with the popular food app Jahez, and how the digital age has pushed sound to the forefront of branding. “They’re one of the biggest ones in Saudi Arabia,” he says, “and their most important touchpoint is when you order food on the actual app. More important than their visual branding on their social media or their television commercials, the most important consumer touchpoint is the app itself.” Our conversation turns to the increasing role of AI in the industry and how it’s making human content more valuable than ever. “Even if in X amount of years,” Sami suggests, “AI becomes the most common way to create music or to listen to music, I think there’s going to be even more value on a human presence… People want that human involvement as well.”

(18:46) – The Power of Sound in Branding

Our discussion comes to a close as Sami offers his advice to musicians looking to start their career in sonic branding. “I would say they really need to not position themselves as a recording studio or a music studio,” he explains, “but to position themselves as a sonic branding agency and to really understand that the first, most important part of the process is actually understanding the brand that you’re working with.” We talk about how listeners can get in touch with him, and the foundational role sound plays in our lives. “When you come out and you’re a newborn,” he says, “I’m pretty sure you don’t really see very much. The first thing is, you hear. Even when you’re still in the womb, you don’t really see anything, but you can hear your mother’s laugh or other noises. So I think it’s just one of the most powerful [senses]. It’s incredibly powerful, sound, and it’s everywhere.”

Episode Summary

• Sami gives his insights on building a career in sonic branding.
• We discuss Sami’s thoughts on the impact of AI on the audio industry.
• Sami reflects on the emotional power of sound in branding.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

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Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“You know, the Dr. Pepper jingle, a year ago, there was that jingle. So I’m not going to make any claims that the jingle itself isn’t great. It’s a great jingle. And I do think if you analyze it, there are a lot of ways you can dissect it to actually properly represent Dr. Pepper. But I do think that the main reason it became so viral and people are still linking it to Dr. Pepper is the roll-out strategy, even though it wasn’t intentional. I believe she was an influencer or an Insta or a content creator on social media who recorded a song on her phone. And there was this whole thing. It went viral and they published it in the Super Bowl or whatever it is. But I really think it’s the roll-out that made it so big.” – Sami El-Quqa

This week’s guest is the founder and CEO of MusicGrid, a leading sonic branding agency serving brands across the GCC and wider MENA region. With over a decade of experience in the music industry, he blends creative expertise with strategic business insight to help organizations translate their brand identity into sound. A graduate of Berklee College of Music in Contemporary Music Composition and Production, he also holds a Master’s degree in International Business Management, specializing in music licensing and intellectual property in the digital age.

He’s worked with over three hundred brands across government, financial, and commercial sectors, leading projects that position sound as a core driver of brand recognition and emotional connection, and he’s contributed to copyright legislation in Kuwait while regularly participating in regional industry events as a speaker and advisor, shaping the future of sonic branding in the Middle East.

His name is Sami El-Quqa, and in this discussion, we’ll be discussing why sound is a brand’s most unavoidable tool. He’ll reveal how to cut through marketing noise, the psychology behind sounds we can’t forget, and the secrets to blending cultural heritage with modern tech. Whether you’re a CEO or a creator, you’ll learn how to stop being just ‘seen’ and finally start being heard.

And if you like what you hear and you want to support this podcast, there are a bunch of ways to do that at audiobrandingpodcast.com, including subscribing to the YouTube channel, the newsletter, writing a review, or buying me a coffee. Because this takes a lot of coffee. Thanks so much.

(00:00) – Sami’s Early Memories of Sound

As our conversation starts, Sami shares an early memory of sound that helped spark his musical career. “There’s a TV channel that, during Ramadan, would play this jingle,” he recalls. “It was called the NBC Ramadan jingle. And I’d say that’s my earliest memory… of music that not just moved me, but music that I could attach to a specific calendar day on the year.” He tells us about his studies at Berklee and how he made the jump to music licensing, and how his father’s advice helped convince him to focus on sonic branding in the Middle East. “He said, ‘You know what, this is a market that doesn’t really have that. If you stay in the UK or if you go back to the US, it’s a saturated market. You may not be really filling a gap there,’” Sami recalls his father telling him. “There’s a need for culturally relevant Middle Eastern music or Saudi or Kuwaiti music, but there was nowhere to really find that.”

(11:28) – The Secret to Creating Sonic Identities

Sami tells us more about culturally authentic sonic branding in the MENA region vs the West, and his perspective as someone who’s been on both sides. “Even Hollywood movies,” he says, “sometimes for us here in this region, when we watch a clip of a Hollywood movie and they’re in the Sahara Desert, the music is often off. We call it Orientalist or Aladdinesque.” We talk about his early career in sound and how hiring an orchestra helped give a sonic brand launch an extra boost. “For the launch,” he explains, “they wanted something grand and prestigious. So we worked with an orchestra in Europe to record and film a launch film and a performance of that sonic identity…. people not only became more aware of the brand Trolley, but they are able to remember it more because of the launch film.”

(20:16) – Blending Heritage with Modernity

The first half of our conversation comes to a close as Sami tells us more about the branding process and how it can change depending on the industry. “When we work in finance,” he says, “a lot of brands are looking to be digital first. That’s a big initiative when it comes to finance, because their most important touchpoint is their phone app.” We discuss how each campaign’s approach can depend on its region, and how the younger generation is increasingly blurring those geographical lines. “There’s a large cultural influence everywhere from North America, from England,” he explains, “so often [being] modern means being attractive to the younger generation who doesn’t only speak Arabic, but their second language is English, and they’re also influenced by Western culture.”

Episode Summary

• Sami shares his early memories of impactful music and jingles.
• The process of developing sonic identities through client workshops.
• Sami discusses how to merge cultural heritage with modern soundscapes.

Tune in for next week’s episode as we discuss how Sami fused traditional and high-tech sound for the Kuwaiti Stock Exchange’s sonic logos, his approach to implementing an effective branding strategy, and the dramatic changes he’s seen in the audio industry just within the past seven years.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

Book your project with Voice Overs and Vocals by visiting https://voiceoversandvocals.com

Connect with me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jodikrangle/

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Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“My grandfather used to say, aim for the moon and you might catch a star on the way down. And at his funeral, I gave a sort of eulogy and told everyone this story and said, ‘I assume everyone’s heard this one from him because he was a storyteller.’ There were about a hundred people there, and they were like, ’ No, we’ve not heard that story. But afterwards, fifteen, twenty people did come up to me and say, ‘He sent me a letter, and he told me this, a different thing. And he told me that…’ And I guess one of my biggest inspirations, which is why I try and mentor, because I think he mentored me without saying, ‘Greg, I’m mentoring you.’ But I’ve realized that I need to mentor people, and actually, I think all of us need to mentor and to be mentored.” – Greig Watts

This episode is the second half of my conversation with author, songwriter, and music publisher Greig Watts as we discuss bridging the gap between creativity and the practical side of business, his tips for dealing with the inevitable rejections that come in the music industry, and how a teacher who literally washed kids’ mouths out with soap influenced his own approach to teaching students.

And if you like what you hear and you want to support this podcast, there are a bunch of ways to do that at audiobrandingpodcast.com, including subscribing to the YouTube channel, the newsletter, writing a review, or buying me a coffee. Because this takes a lot of coffee. Thanks so much.

(00:00) – Balancing Art and Business

As the second half of our conversation starts, Greig tells us about some of the early influences that turned him both towards and, to some extent, away from sound. “I remember having my school’s careers interview,” he recalls, “and they said, ‘What do you want to be?’ ‘A songwriter and a business person.’ And they were like, ‘No, you need a job.’ And I was like, ‘songwriter.’ And eventually I sort of said, ‘Well, you know, I am running my own business, and I am writing songs.’" He talks about the wisdom his grandfather shared with him and how he now mentors other musicians, including teaching them that rejection isn’t a personal failure. “It’s not that you’re not good enough,” he explains, “it’s that someone else’s song fitted [the project] better than yours. That means you could have had the best song, but their song fitted the criteria, so [your] song can still go somewhere else.”

(12:51) – Keeping the Dream Alive

Greig tells us about his first book, originally written during COVID-19 when he wanted to share what he’s learned with his children. “It’s called Keeping the Dream Alive, [because] I’m a dreamer. So that’s the main thing. But then it has the subtitle of A Songwriter’s Guide to Overcoming Rejection, Finding Success, and, most importantly, I think, Enjoying the Journey Along the Way.” We discuss the power of sound and one particularly poignant memory of his grandmother, who suffered from dementia in her later years. “They’d just done their Christmas nativity play,” he recalls. “So I said to them, ‘Why don’t you sing ‘Silent Night?’’ And so they sang ‘Silent Night,’ and up she sat, and she sang it with them. And then at the end, when we’d finished, she sang a verse that we never even knew.”

(24:06) – The Difference Teachers Make

As our conversation wraps up, Greig shares his own thoughts about the power of sound, and how deeply it can connect us with the past. “As a 35-year-old man,” he recalls hearing the 1970s Incredible Hulk theme for the first time in years, “I started crying, and I was like, ‘Why am I crying? I don’t know why I’m crying.’ And then I remembered I used to watch this when I was seven, and I always used to feel sad at that point. So the memory thirty years later triggered the same emotion.” He talks about the impact teachers have made on his life, both good and bad, and how he strives to use the lessons he’s learned from them while teaching the next generation of songwriters. “They will never hear me shout at them,” he says. “I might shout an instruction across to just make sure, but not an aggressive shout because that’s not my job. My job is to give them instructions, then they go out and do it.”

Episode Summary

• Greig shares how his grandfather inspired his mentoring philosophy.
• Our conversation about how neurodiverse people can excel in creativity.
• The importance of understanding the business side of songwriting.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

Book your project with Voice Overs and Vocals by visiting https://voiceoversandvocals.com

Connect with me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jodikrangle/

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Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“I’ve been, so one of my writer friends who I published, a guy called Ian Kerner, he was one of the producers behind “Never Gonna Give You Up” by Rick Astley and “Stay Another Day” by Seventeen and Kylie. He was a big producer, and I took him to Eurovision. He was the first person I went with, and he turned to me and said, ‘This is the biggest thing I’ve ever done.’ And I’m sitting there thinking, ‘But you were number one in America with Rick Astley.’ Yet he’s saying that he meant the show. The show was, ‘I’ve never been, it’s like the Olympics. It’s that big.’ And then you want to go back every year. Every time I take someone new, they’re like, ‘I’ll come back next year. I’m trying to get in next year.’” – Greig Watts

This episode’s guest is one half of the UK-based writing, production and publishing team DWB, and in recent years, he’s successfully hosted several songwriting camps, catering to Asia and Eurovision. The triumph of these camps and the songs they produced has established him as an expert in the fields of songwriting for the Eurovision Song Contest. Since 2016, he’s supervised eighteen Eurovision entries across eleven consecutive years, along with approximately 80 national finalists within that time frame. His expertise has also led to him becoming a sought-after conference speaker, panelist, and moderator; he was the Music Consultant for Eurovision for the BBC for 2019, and he’s just released his first book, Keeping the Dream Alive, which has already become an Amazon bestseller.

In this conversation, we explore the moments when he nearly walked away from music, the power of reconnecting with the sounds that first moved him, and why he believes creativity is less about ego and more about connection. His name is Greig Watts, and we talk about using Eurovision as a strategic launchpad and how understanding the business of music can protect the soul of it. If you’ve wondered how sound becomes strategy, or how resilience turns into resonance, this episode is for you.

And if you like what you hear and you want to support this podcast, there are a bunch of ways to do that at audiobrandingpodcast.com, including subscribing to the YouTube channel, the newsletter, writing a review, or buying me a coffee. Because this takes a lot of coffee. Thanks so much.

(00:00) – Greig’s Transition to Songwriting

Our conversation starts off with Greig’s early memories of sound, particularly how, as a toddler, Manfred Mann’s “Do Wah Diddy Diddy” became part of the soundtrack of his life. “Whenever I hear that song,” he explains, “my great-grandmother Goodman pops back into my head, and I can only have been three at the time, but it’s a real, definite memory, and I think I’ve got lots of those memories.” Greig tells us how his career in sound began, including how he turned down a record deal as the lead singer to follow his true passion. “What I really wanted was the songwriting,” he tells us. “It wasn’t to be a front person… I was kind of getting engaged to my first wife, and I was like, I don’t really want to go to Japan and be a front person in a band. I want to be a songwriter.”

(14:05) – Eurovision and the Global Market

Greig tells us about his work with Eurovision and what it’s taught him about bringing new musical acts to the world. “We organized our own songwriting camp,” he recalls, “and asked people to come. Probably had thirty people out there, and that’s how we got our first entry for Norway. And since then, we’ve had an entry every year, and actually we’ve had 18 entries in 11 years.” We discuss his work with boy bands, J-pop, and K-pop artists, and how the international pop scene’s shifted in recent years. “Japanese [artists] don’t tend to come out of Japan so much,” he explains. “It’s a big market, they’re not so bothered about that. But Korean culture, the government is funding Korean culture coming out. That’s why we’re getting, you know, Squid Game. That’s why we get lots of Korean films.”

(28:41) – Greig’s Reflections on Creativity

We discuss how Greig’s career almost took a turn away from sound, and what it took to bring him back into the industry. “Eventually, I kind of felt I needed to take a year off,” he tells us, “but I wasn’t going to say that. I kind of knew it, and eventually, about two years later, my wife said, ‘You need to finish now. You need to go and take a year off.’" He talks about his foray into banking, and the breakthrough that cemented his career as a songwriter. “We did say, give me a year and if I’m not making money by the end of the year, then I go back to the bank… On month twelve, I got offered a job to set up a publishing department of a record label, which meant as a songwriter, I suddenly had income.”

Episode Summary

• Grieg’s shift from band member to songwriter and music consultant.
• His insights into the Asian music market and its dynamics.
• Our discussion on how sound influences our feelings and memories.

Tune in for next week’s episode as we discuss the valuable lessons his grandfather shared with him and others in his life, how neurodiversity can almost be an advantage when it comes to certain industries, and why being the best songwriter doesn’t necessarily lead to the most success.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

Book your project with Voice Overs and Vocals by visiting https://voiceoversandvocals.com

Connect with me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jodikrangle/

Watch the Audio Branding Podcast on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/JodiKrangleVO

Connect with me on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodikrangle/

Leave the Audio Branding Podcast a review at https://lovethepodcast.com/audiobranding (Thank you!)

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“And I did get to do a session with Count Basie and his orchestra. You know, it’s a lot easier to record people that play well than people who can’t play well. Because, I mean, it almost records itself. I mean, yeah, you got to set up the microphones, you got to use the right techniques and so forth, and don’t overload the microphones. But these great players are much easier to record than mediocre players with the same equipment.” – Robin Gulcher

This episode is the second half of my conversation with sound designer Robin Gulcher as we discuss how room tone can make or break recording quality, Robin’s advice to film students on making the best use of sound, and his memorable recording session with a bagpipe-and-jazz band.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(00:00) – The Importance of Dynamic Range

As the second half of our discussion begins, Robin reveals when and how commercials became so much louder than the shows we’re watching. “That was sort of intentional,” he explains, “because back when radio and television were broadcast through the air, the way they could increase their advertising rates was getting to more people. And since the [signal] of a compressed commercial is denser, it could travel through air farther.” He tells us about his work with film directors, and the dangers of overlooking the importance of room tone in a recording session. “The director that I was working with said, ‘You know, in this digital age, we don’t need to stop and take the time to do the room tone because you can just do your digital stuff.’ I said, ‘Yeah, but the problem with that is, what do the actors do between sentences? They breathe. So that’s not room tone – that’s breathing.’”

(12:39) – Robin’s Most Memorable Sessions

Robin tells us about some of the artists he’s recorded over the years, such as Count Basie and the Orchestra, and what he learned from setting up the microphones for a bagpipe-and-jazz jam session. “I’ve recorded a lot of, you know, great instrumentalists,” he tells us. “And it’s just, when you’re recording great players, and the Count Basie Orchestra was full of great players, it’s just an easier job.” He shares the lessons he gives his students about the power of sound in marketing, and why jingles aren’t necessarily his go-to branding approach. “It really cramps creativity,” he explains. “Clients say, ‘Well, I spent all that money on that jingle, and I want to hear it. I want to hear my name sung.’ And so it sort of limits the agency’s creativity options by selling them things like jingles.”

(24:26) – Cinematic Soundscapes and Sonic Logos

As our discussion comes to a close, Robin tells us about what his work in cinematography has taught him about the power of sound. “In films, whether it’s animation or drama or comedy, I think it’s more environment branding,” he explains, “putting them in a space. And you know, if this particular space is seen in other areas of the movie, it sounds the same because it’s the same space.” We discuss how brands can take the same approach to sonic logos, and talk about the art of creating impossible sounds. “They were in that big castle,” he recalls a climactic scene from Peter Jackson’s The Hobbit trilogy, “and the dragon was in there, and no one had ever been in that space before. And the sound design team had to create something that nobody had ever heard before for that environment.”

Episode Summary

• We discuss Robin’s sound design approach at Columbus College.
• The importance of dynamic range in sound design and commercials.
• Exploring the untapped potential of sound in film and advertising.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

Book your project with Voice Overs and Vocals by visiting https://voiceoversandvocals.com

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Connect with me on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodikrangle/

Leave the Audio Branding Podcast a review at https://lovethepodcast.com/audiobranding (Thank you!)

Share your passion effectively with these Tips for Sounding Your Best as a Podcast Guest!

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/tips-for-sounding-your-best-as-a-podcast-guest/

Get my Top Five Tips for Implementing an Intentional Audio Strategy

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/audio-branding-strategy/

Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“I think that making images come to life with sound helps the audience with the story and with the emotion of the story. It puts them in the right place. They know what it is they’re supposed to pay attention to. We talked earlier in our first meeting about this line-of-sight editing, that is, a video editing thing that they do to get the audience’s eyes to move to what’s important on screen. And we can do the same thing with audio. We can tell them, ‘OK, this is important over here.’ And whether or not they saw it, now they know it, if that makes sense.” – Robin Gulcher

This week’s guest provides sound design, mixing, and recording services for Advertising Agencies, Film/Video production companies, Publishing Companies, Independent Filmmakers, and Corporate clients, and he’s been the production sound mixer for countless commercial and film shoots over the years. Through his work at audibleRicochet, he’s rescued imperfect recordings, crafted immersive soundscapes, and helped brands and filmmakers bring clarity and emotion to their projects. And as an adjunct instructor in the Cinematic Arts Department at the Columbus College of Art and Design, he continues to further his craft, as well as the future of the filmmakers and animators he teaches.

His name is Robin Gulcher, and in this episode, he shares how sound can transform the ordinary into something memorable – and why what we hear often matters more than what we see.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(00:00) – Navigating the AI Landscape

Our conversation starts as Robin shares his experiences with AI sound and voices, including the surprising impact it made after one recent session. “It was a long, educational VO thing,” he tells us, “The client asked for this particular voice,… they directed it, and the voice talent sent the invoice and an AI disclaimer after the fact, and so they fired us all.” He recalls his own use of AI in a very different situation, and how it helped avoid a recording crisis. “She picked up the phone, and she was in labor,” he says about a voiceover artist scheduled to record that day. “But she picked up the phone, you know, and so what I did was, we sampled her voice, and the sentence that had this person who was coming up on stage with [a] mispronunciation, we put that in phonetically and did it a couple of times.”

(13:50) – How Robin’s Audio Journey Began

We circle back to Robin’s early memories of sound, and what inspired him to begin his career in audio. “Music was always in my house,” he says, “whether it was, you know, on the RCA phonograph or whether it was a couple of live players that stopped by the house and jammed and stuff. And I just grew up around it.” He tells us more about how he formed his remote studio, audibleRicochet, and how its timing coincided with the COVID pandemic. “Things had changed so much,” he explains, “and I had actually had facilities here at the house. And so, you know, if there was a snow day, I’d stay home and work and stuff. And it just became more obvious to me that we didn’t need that facility.”

(24:32) – The Emotional Impact of Sound

As the first half of our conversation wraps up, Robin shares his thoughts on how the power of sound shapes our cinematic experience in ways we don’t fully realize. “Sometimes with sound design, you can do things that are unexpected that also help the story,” he says, “but they have to believe it, and you have to do it in a way that they’ll believe it.” He gives us an example of a memorable use of sound in filmmaking from the 2014 film A Most Wanted Man: “The talking and stuff, that faded away, and the only thing you heard was his footsteps… As he got to the door to the elevator, the footsteps stopped, and then the crowd and the background went back to normal as if we went back to reality.”

Episode Summary

• Our conversation about the voiceover challenges and opportunities posed by AI.
• An exploration of the audio techniques that help guide audience focus.
• Robin and I discuss how sound enhances storytelling and audience engagement.

Tune in for next week’s episode as we discuss the surprising history behind why commercials are so much louder than television, why Robin advises his students against writing jingles, and what sonic logos can learn from the techniques used to create consistent cinematic soundscapes.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

Book your project with Voice Overs and Vocals by visiting https://voiceoversandvocals.com

Connect with me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jodikrangle/

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Connect with me on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodikrangle/

Leave the Audio Branding Podcast a review at https://lovethepodcast.com/audiobranding (Thank you!)

Share your passion effectively with these Tips for Sounding Your Best as a Podcast Guest!

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/tips-for-sounding-your-best-as-a-podcast-guest/

Get my Top Five Tips for Implementing an Intentional Audio Strategy

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/audio-branding-strategy/

Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“I don’t think AI quite has us figured out yet because, as human beings, we’ll listen to sad songs to feel better. I don’t think it understands that. That’s true, it’s contrary… Yeah, I mean, I think that AI has its place. I’m not all against it, just as a matter of course, I just think that it shouldn’t replace our creativity. That’s what makes us human, and I don’t want to see a computer replace that. Yeah, I want it to clean my house and cook my meals so that I can create.” – Jodi Krangle & Laney McCormick

This episode is the second half of my conversation with music supervisors Laney and Matt McCormick as we talk about how AI music’s changing the way human musicians approach their work, striking the right balance between playing it safe and making a memorable sonic impression, and how COVID and the rise of social media have changed sound editing and our approach to sonic branding.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(00:00) – AI and Creativity

Our conversation continues as Laney and Matt talk about the impact of AI on their industry, such as how fast musicians who find themselves competing with AI feel they have to work. “The speed’s definitely an issue,” Matt says. “It’s not easy to crank out an authentic song, and it’s not even easy to crank out an inauthentic song. In a lot of ways, it’s even harder.” Laney notes some of the trends she’s seen in music marketing and how positive messaging is making a comeback. “I see more for that whole motivational lyrical content,” she explains, “They want rap and hip hop beat, female vocal, clean lyrics, and we see a lot of requests come in with female vocals. I think that’s really cool.”

(12:45) – Trends in Music Licensing

The discussion turns to pop culture and how sound is becoming more and more important in making a strong impression. “Stranger Things has a huge budget for music,” Laney tells us, “and they’re using huge tunes, and those are, you know, those are the supervisors acting as influencers in many ways. ‘Running Up That Hill’ was a B-side, and here it is, huge again.” Matt adds his thoughts on the musical risks brands are willing to take in order to stand out. “Everybody always wants to do something different, but that’s a risk, right?” he explains. “I mean your large brands, whether it’s Coca-Cola, Amazon, Nike, Taco Bell… Are those brands willing to take, like, a really huge risk with music and with sound? And the answer for me is, I don’t know. But I don’t see it very often.”

(20:00) – The Role of Sound in Advertising

As our conversation comes to a close, Laney and Matt tell listeners how they can get in touch, and they both share their thoughts on the power of sound and its importance in our lives. “Music specifically for me is a therapy of sorts,” Laney says. “It doesn’t matter what my problem is, what my mood is, or what activity I need to do, want to do, or have to do. There is a genre and a record that will make that easier for me.” Matt talks about sound’s ability to connect us to one another, and how it creates a common ground for people from every walk of life. “Sound moves you,” he tells us. “And it can be a common ground for everybody in a way. It’s hard to listen to an emotional piece of music and not be emotional and not feel that with the person that’s next to you or multiple people next to you.”

Episode Summary

• Our discussion on how AI affects human creativity in music.
• Laney and Matt reveal the current trends in music requests and licensing.
• Matt and Laney discuss why they prioritize authentic music in their work.

Connect with the Guest

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

Book your project with Voice Overs and Vocals by visiting https://voiceoversandvocals.com

Connect with me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jodikrangle/

Watch the Audio Branding Podcast on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/JodiKrangleVO

Connect with me on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodikrangle/

Leave the Audio Branding Podcast a review at https://lovethepodcast.com/audiobranding (Thank you!)

Share your passion effectively with these Tips for Sounding Your Best as a Podcast Guest!

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/tips-for-sounding-your-best-as-a-podcast-guest/

Get my Top Five Tips for Implementing an Intentional Audio Strategy

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/audio-branding-strategy/

Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“That’s one of the biggest things that scares me the most about composing with AI. It’s that, whatever AI model you’re on, how was it trained, and was that material copyrighted? And was there any kind of permission for that to happen? And you, as the end user, don’t know.” – Laney McCormick

This episode features a pair of guests who are passionate about helping creatives elevate their stories through music. As the founders of Scene Support Music, they specialize in pairing authentic music with visual media, ensuring that brands and stories stand out. As former music educators, they prioritize education in every collaboration, guiding filmmakers and musicians through the creative and legal intricacies of music licensing. Based in the Midwest, outside the traditional film and advertising hubs, they bring a fresh perspective to the intersection of music and storytelling. Between them, they hold multiple advanced degrees in conducting, education, percussion, and communications, but they believe their most valuable lessons come from lived experience, along with the occasional failure.

Their names are Laney and Matt McCormick, and, beyond their work in music and licensing, Laney serves on the board of Women in Film Cincinnati and Cindependent Film Festival. Together, Laney and Matt continue to perform as musicians on stages across the country and internationally. If you’ve ever wondered what makes music truly move us, this is a conversation you’ll really enjoy!

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(00:00) – From Teaching to Music Licensing

Our conversation starts as Laney and Matt recall their earliest memories of sound and how they got into the business of music licensing. “Hearing that band play for the first time,” Laney says, recounting a memory from elementary school, “and seeing her band director, who was… very proper and wearing a black suit, and I thought, ‘I want to make that sound in this environment with those kind of people.’ Like, I want to be a band director. And that’s what I did for a really long time.” Matt shares his experience as an indie musician and how it segued into commercial music. “I remember this is the exact one where light bulbs started to go off in my head,” he recalls. “A music supervisor had reached out and said, ‘I need thirty seconds of upbeat, positive music for an apparel commercial that’s for the holidays, but it doesn’t have to be holiday music.’ And he was like, ‘money’s kind of low for it, $7,000.’ And honestly, for me at the time, and even now, $7,000, that doesn’t sound too low.”

(10:00) – The Challenge of AI in Music

Laney and Matt tell us more about their role as music supervisors and how it ties into the process of music licensing. “A sync agent represents a catalog of music for licensing,” Laney explains. “A music supervisor can contact sync agents to find music and make playlists for a director, and then a clearance specialist, which is what we’re doing, like one-offs for ad agencies who will come in and say, ‘I want this specific song.’ There’s no searching involved. ‘Will you just get me the rights for that?’ And a music supervisor will use the skills of both other things at the same time.” Our conversation turns to how AI is impacting their side of the music business and the differences between traditional musicians and AI artists. “Some artists will contact us and be super odd,” Matt adds. “And it’s like, ‘Hey, I’m an AI artist,’ and I don’t want to be like, ‘Hey, AI is a bad thing. We’re not going to do it.’ And I’ve only talked to one person, but when that artist contacted me, and he’s like, ‘I’m an AI artist,’ I was like, I definitely want to have a conversation because I want to know what is going on there.”

(25:00) – The Importance of Authenticity

As we wrap up the first half of our discussion, Laney explains the different processes involved between licensed tracks and licensed covers. “That can drastically affect your bottom line,” she tells us. “Like, my cover of a Beatles song is not as expensive as the original recording. But the publishing is going to be the same whether you use the original or whether you use a cover.” Matt talks about the explosion of the licensed cover market in recent years and how it’s helped streamline the process for finding the right song track for the right client. “There are so many covers that are already out there,” he explains, “that chances are, like, if we’re working on a film and we need a cover song, my first thought doesn’t go, ‘Hey, let’s get somebody to record that.’ My first thought goes, ‘I’m going to send an email to every catalog holder that we know to see what they already have of that.’"

Episode Summary

• Laney and Matt share personal stories about how sound influenced their lives.
• Exploring the implications and challenges posed by AI-generated music.
• Laney and Matt discuss why they prioritize authentic music in their work.

Tune in for next week’s episode as we discuss how sometimes even the best composer might not be the right composer, how vintage songs and positivity are making a surprising comeback, and what shows like Stranger Things have taught us about both following and setting musical trends.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

Book your project with Voice Overs and Vocals by visiting https://voiceoversandvocals.com

Connect with me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jodikrangle/

Watch the Audio Branding Podcast on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/JodiKrangleVO

Connect with me on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodikrangle/

Leave the Audio Branding Podcast a review at https://lovethepodcast.com/audiobranding (Thank you!)

Share your passion effectively with these Tips for Sounding Your Best as a Podcast Guest!

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/tips-for-sounding-your-best-as-a-podcast-guest/

Get my Top Five Tips for Implementing an Intentional Audio Strategy

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/audio-branding-strategy/

Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/