Awkward Silences

What company isn’t “customer obsessed”? Well, a lot, as it turns out. 

That’s not for lack of caring—but building a customer-centric culture is easier said than done. And how you do this depends on whether you’re starting from square one or trying to change a company’s culture from the inside.

According to Prayag Narula, CEO and Co-Founder of Marvin, changing a culture towards customer centricity requires starting from the bottom-up. Building something new? Leaders should be obsessing over customer feedback, actively placing research and customer insights front and center from the very beginning. 

In this episode of Awkward Silences, Prayag sits down with Erin and Carol to discuss his strategies for building a customer-centric product culture at Marvin. Tune in to learn more about what it means to obsess over customers, doing research versus using research, how customer centricity is put into practice at Marvin, and more. 👇

Highlights: 

[00:00:31] The origins of Marvin

[00:04:40] Building a culture around customer centricity

[00:08:35] Why leaders should obsess over a customer centric culture

[00:13:59] How the rest of the team can keep customers front and center

[00:18:04] Balancing doing research and using research

[00:21:46] “Capital R” versus “lower case r” researchers 

[00:28:21] Getting researchers more involved in strategic conversations

[00:30:35] Practicing customer centricity at Marvin

[00:39:36] The Marvin repository

[00:46:53] Prayag’s parting words of wisdom: talk to your market

Sources mentioned in the episode:

• userinterviews.com/awkward
• heymarvin.com

About Our Guest

Prayag Narula is an entrepreneur and trained researcher with a passion for building technology he always wished for when conducting user research. He is currently the Co-Founder and CEO of Marvin, a qualitative data analysis platform and research repository for user-centric teams across the globe. He is further the Co-Founder and a Board Member for LeadGenius, a demand generation automation company automating and accelerating outbound sales and marketing for mid-marketing and enterprise companies across the world. 

AI is a big part of Notion's strategy for the future of knowledge work, and they're exploring ways to use AI to make people's lives easier.

Linus Lee, a Research Engineer at Notion, spends his time researching and learning about AI—how users interact with it, the challenges of building trustworthy AI systems, and its - potential to help people work more effectively.

In this episode of Awkward Silences, he sits down with Erin and Carol to discuss Notion’s approach to designing interfaces for Generative AI tools. 

Tune into this episode to learn more about the challenges of instructing AI, the importance of user feedback to the AI design process, security considerations, use cases, and more. 

Highlights: 

[00:05:03] Tools Linus is excited to see come to market

[00:06:50] Generative AI and its function at Notion

[00:10:22] Recognizing AI is useful versus finding the use cases for it

[00:13:58] Lessons from the Notion design process

[00:22:09] Breadth versus depth in workflows

[00:26:10] Learning about models in the wild

[00:28:52] Security considerations with AI products

[00:32:13] Understanding the difference between AI generated and human written text

[00:36:34] Should we be scared of AI?

About Our Guest

Linus Lee is a Research Engineer at Notion, prototyping new software interfaces for augmenting our collaborative work and creativity with AI. He has spent the last few years experimenting with AI-augmented tools for thinking, like a canvas for exploring the latent space of neural networks and writing tools where ideas connect themselves. Before Notion, Linus spent a year as an independent researcher in New York City. 

According to Andrea Amorós, Associate Principal Research at ADP, giving research a seat at the big table is all about building meaningful connections with the people you’re presenting to.

Andrea joins the Awkward Silences podcast to provide insight into how she learned to make research meaningful for stakeholders at higher levels of the organization. Having been hired to conduct discovery but with no plan set up for her, she took the initiative to interview the leaders within the company to understand their needs and identify opportunities for strategic research. 

Tune into this episode to hear Andrea’s advice on building relationships with stakeholders, approaching push-back, and creating meaningful change in the current research landscape.

Highlights: 

[00:00:50] Andrea’s motivation to give research a seat at the big table

[00:07:46] What bringing research to the big table really means

[00:11:06] Presenting research to bigger audiences versus smaller audiences

[00:14:08] Making presentations meaningful to the audience

[00:17:47] How Andrea made it to the big table

[00:22:26] How product-specific research can be escalated to the big table

[00:24:53] The marginalization of research today

[00:30:27] How changes in research apply to other fields

[00:32:23] Andrea’s advice for building courage

[00:36:17] The possibility of getting to the big table without presentations

[00:38:46] Navigating push-back

Sources mentioned in the episode:

• 📘 Awkward Silences blog
• 🔗 Andrea's LinkedIn
• 📘 Andrea's article: How to Present Research Insights to Executives with Ease
• 🎁 Get 3 free participants for your next research project with User Interviews
• ✍️ Take our survey to let us know what you want to see next

About Our Guest

Andrea M. Amorós is the Associate Principal Researcher at ADP, a payroll solutions provider leader globally. She has always been a really deep thinker, curious about understanding human behavior and the unconscious mind. Her expertise lies in conducting strategic research and discovering patterns at scale to improve people's lives. She has a background in Design Engineering and has worked in various startups, consultancies and large-scale corporations.

134 episodes. 

That’s how long Awkward Silences has been going with Erin and JH as hosts.

But now it’s time for something new.

JH says goodbye to Awkward Silences as he kicks off a new chapter in his career. Today, he and Erin reflect on the years. They share a bit of the original background to the podcast, their favorite memories, and even some behind-the-scenes aspects and outtakes that may surprise you. 

Tune into this episode to learn all about Awkward Silences and bid a fond farewell to JH 👇

Highlights: 

[00:02:01] Why did Erin pick JH as co-host?

[00:05:03] JH’s favorite part of the podcast

[00:06:52] A look back to when the podcast first felt “real”

[00:10:07] Favorite episodes, memories, and guests

[00:13:26] Secrets of the intro

[00:14:50] JH’s podcast future

[00:17:01] Where is JH heading?

[00:20:25] Funny outtakes and memories

As a researcher, you know the value of using research to drive business decisions—but other stakeholders might not. In order to drive action from research, you need to create alignment with key decision-makers and the research you do. 

Pejman Mirza-Babaei joins the Awkward Silences podcast to discuss how to transform research insights into actionable design decisions by collaborating with stakeholders. With over fifteen years of experience doing UXR and interaction design on various applications, Pejman shares insights on the importance of effective communication and collaboration; the need for actionable and cost-effective research; and the challenges and biases that can arise in decision-driven research.

Tune into this episode to learn all about the intricacies of decision-driven research 👇

Highlights: 

[00:01:53] Pejman’s extensive experience with games and user research

[00:04:40] Making good, directed, actionable decisions from research

[00:08:53] The inspiration behind The Game Designer’s Playbook

[00:13:14] Collaboration with stakeholders to determine research necessity

[00:16:53] Ensuring alignment between decision-makers and researchers

[00:23:30] When decision-centric research backfires

[00:27:31] Avoiding marketing your company to your participants

[00:30:07] Specificity in context 

[00:32:28] Navigating difficult decisions stemming from research

[00:37:03] Successfully seeing research insights through to action

[00:43:46] Life motivations mirrored in games

Sources mentioned in the episode:

• userinterviews.com/awkward
• The Game Designer's Playbook

About Our Guest

Pejman Mirza-Babaei is a UX research consultant, author, and professor. His latest book, The Game Designer's Playbook, was published in September 2022. He also co-edited the Games User Research book (2018), a compendium of insights from over 40 experts on UX research in games. He has over 15 years of experience doing UXR and interaction design on various applications, from mobile apps to VR games and everything in between streaming content, console, PC games, and even delivery robots! He worked as the UX Research Director at Execution Labs (Montréal, Canada) from 2015 to 2017 and was a UX Researcher at Vertical Slice and Player Research (UK) from 2009 to 2013. 

Competition can be scary. But in UX, competitive research is insightful.

You don’t want to chase your competitors, but you need to know what they are doing to know how you can improve.

Rachel Miles joins the Awkward Silences podcast to discuss the value of competitive research in UX and design. As the UX research lead at IBM, Rachel integrated competitive research at IBM to measure their products’ performance and to align their existing internal measures with external measures. She shares insights on selecting benchmark competitors or metrics, communicating competitive insights, and navigating legal challenges. 

Tune into this episode to learn how competitive research can inform your product development and strategy 👇

Highlights:

[00:00:41] Rachel’s interest in competitive research

[00:02:27] What makes up competitive research?

[00:05:54] Choosing your competitors to benchmark against 

[00:10:08] Determining benchmarking metrics

[00:16:33] Rule #1: Avoiding over fixating on the competition

[00:21:37] Opportunities for non-researchers to do competitive research

[00:23:28] Creating and sharing benchmark assets

[00:27:95] Managing participants for competitive methods

[00:30:11] Navigating legal challenges

[00:34:56] Priming participants for fake scenarios

[00:38:05] Teamwork makes the dream work in competitive research

About Our Guest

Rachel Miles, UX Research Lead at IBM, is a user experience researcher and strategist. A self-proclaimed nerd of all trades, she loves to learn about everything that crosses her path. In her spare time, you might catch her reading, drawing, traveling, or working on her blog where she talks about where technology meets wellness. 

In design and UX research, context is king. 

Your work doesn’t exist in a vacuum; it’s a part of a wider ecosystem of stakeholders, beneficiaries, and more.

Sheryl Cababa, Chief Strategy Officer at Substantial, recognized a clear gap in design methods that only addressed the individual user and the immediate product benefits: designing beyond the product with a systems thinking approach. As the author of Closing the Loop: Systems Thinking for Designers, Sheryl says, 

She joins Erin and JH today to discuss how systems thinking can address the complexities and interconnectedness of products and their ecosystems, sharing practical strategies for integrating it into your own design practice. 

Tune into this episode to learn actionable advice on adopting a systems thinking mindset when designing user experiences 👇

Highlights: 

[00:01:18] The appeal of systems thinking

[00:08:45] Ethnography as a bridge between traditional UX methods and systems thinking

[00:14:29] Understanding when a problem calls for systems thinking versus when it does not

[00:22:37] Avoiding “chaos” when integrating systems thinking

[00:28:04] Systems thinking as a mindset rather than a set of tools

[00:31:30] Recognizing when methods are producing valuable results

[00:36:17] Utilizing systems thinking for speculative design

[00:41:34] The importance of multi-disciplinary groups in systems thinking

Sources mentioned in the episode:

• Closing the Loop: Systems Thinking for Designers

Want a copy of Sheryl Cababa's book?

Use discount code: [cababa-awkwardsilences] for 15% off your purchase of Closing the Loop: Systems Thinking for Designers at https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/systems-thinking-for-designers/.

About Our Guest

Sheryl Cababa, Chief Strategy Officer at Substantial and Author of “Closing the Loop - Systems Thinking for Designers,” is a multi-disciplinary director with over two decades of experience in product design and consultancy, mainly focusing  on systems thinking and evidence-based design. Her current role at Substantial, a design and software development consultancy, involves conducting research, developing design strategies, and advocating for human-centric outcomes. In her book, “Closing the Loop - Systems Thinking for Designers,” Sheryl introduces readers to a powerful systems thinking mindset.

There are 6 key qualities for great facilitation:

• Starting with your core beliefs
• Maintaining neutrality
• Standing in the storm
• Honoring the wisdom of the group
• Upholding the agile mindset
• Honoring the group’s agenda

According to Marsha Acker, Founder, and CEO of TeamCatapult, 

In this episode, Marsha sits down with Erin and JH to discuss the art and importance of facilitation in group settings, focusing on the 6 key principles of great facilitation she wrote about in her book The Art and Science of Facilitation: How to Lead Effective Collaboration with Agile Teams.

Tune in to hear her approach to facilitation, including methods, the preparation process, and how to build your facilitation skills.

👇

Highlights: 

[00:01:05] Defining facilitation: the art of leading people through a process towards a goal

[00:04:50] Reading the room and speaking the language of others

[00:06:08] Maintaining neutrality as a leader

[00:14:24]Standing in the storm of conflict and handling differences

[00:20:43] Honoring the wisdom of the group

[00:23:25] Enhancing agile processes with intentionality

[00:28:54] Honoring the group’s agenda 

[00:33:12] Familiarity versus externality: the pros and cons of different facilitator types

[00:35:57] Guidelines for facilitating workshops

[00:44:56] The importance of navigating invisible team dynamics

Sources mentioned in the episode:

• userinterviews.com/awkward
• userinterviews.com/awkwardsurvey
• The Art and Science of Facilitation: How to Lead Effective Collaboration with Agile Teams 
• Build Your Model for Leading Change

About Our Guest

Marsha Acker, CPF, CPCC, PCC, is the author of Build Your Model for Leading Change: A guided workbook to catalyze clarity and confidence in leading yourself and others, available now. She is the founder and CEO of TeamCatapult, a leadership development firm that equips leaders at all levels to facilitate and lead sustainable behavioral change. She is also the author of The Art and Science of Facilitation: How to Lead Effective Collaboration with Agile Teams and the host of the Defining Moments of Leadership podcast. 

How can UX researchers enable other teams to do research? Show, don’t tell.

According to Helen Devine, UX Research Manager at The Economist, upskilling product people to do research means letting them observe, sit in, and be present during each stage of a research project—not just being told what to do.

Helen went from doing scrappy research with 0 researchers to supporting 50 product people at The Economist to conduct great research with the help of 2 other UX researchers.

Tune into this episode to learn how she established UX research as a valued discipline at The Economist, plus how to balance developing research as a craft while supporting non-researchers at the same time. 

👇

Highlights: 

[00:04:11] From 0 researchers to 3 UXRs and 50 product people 

[00:13:30] The art of observation and note-taking during moderated interviews 

[00:18:59] Generative research? Bring in a pro researcher

[00:24:34] Helen’s biggest wins in instructing others on how to do research better

[0:31:07] Researchers develop the craft, but they don’t own it. 

[00:33:54] Actionable tips on setting guardrails for non-researchers’ research

Sources mentioned in the episode:

• userinterviews.com/awkward
• userinterviews.com/awkwardsurvey

About Our Guest

Helen Devine, UX Research Manager at The Economist, is a user-focused research expert with experience in insight, ethnography, design, and user research across commercial, government, and non-profit sectors. Her current role involves telling user stories that uncover opportunities and inspire action across the organization’s portfolio of digital properties. Before joining The Economist, Helen has had an illustrious career involving positions at The Guardian, a housing and homeless charity shelter, Lloyds Banking Group, and Asda. Recently she spoke at the Insight Innovation Exchange 2023.

What does good “scrappy” user research look like?

According to Varun Murugesan, Co-founder of Apple and Banana,

Being good at scrappy user research is like being the Jason Bourne of research: being effective with what you have, even if you’re shot down by a tight research budget or limited in bandwidth.

Varun joins Erin and JH to discuss his tips for doing scrappy research, advice for finding and utilizing creative techniques in research, and the potential positive and negative effects of the AI explosion.

Highlights: 

[00:01:38] The value of “scrappy” research in tough economic times

[00:05:50] Being “scrappy” is about speed

[00:08:51] Innovating with scarce resources during the pandemic

[00:17:33] Enhancing creativity through messiness

[00:21:40] Sources of inspo for creative research

[00:25:07] Re-evaluating your work and success

[00:31:03] Research during the AI explosion

[000:35:55] 7 years strong doing research, plus new opportunities for the future

Sources mentioned in the episode:

• userinterviews.com/awkward
• fruitful.appleandbanana.org

About Our Guest

Varun Murugesan is the Co-Founder of Apple and Banana, a UXR training and development company helping to build better products through fruitful research. He is also the author of Fruitful, an online UX research library and toolkit of resources for researchers and UX teams aimed at conducting user experience research that drives impact. He is also the Senior UK Researcher of SeatGeek, a mobile ticketing marketplace. Before these positions, Varun worked in UXR roles at Best Buy and Facebook. An entrepreneur, author, and researcher, Varun has spent his career immersed in psychology, technology, and design, and has been featured on a various media platforms sharing fruitful research and his personal UXR career journey.

A gift from Apple & Banana and Awkward Silences

Interested in trying Apple & Banana for your next research project? Use our code AWKWARD-FRUITS-35 to save 35% on Fruitful, an advanced UX research repository used by 100s of teams around the world.