July 29, 2025

Back to Basics Series: Is Economics Moral? (with Heather McGhee)

35 minutes

For decades, orthodox economics has treated morality as irrelevant—as if economic decisions happen in a vacuum, separate from our values and social bonds. But that approach has failed spectacularly, giving cover to policies that divide and exploit us.

In this episode, Heather McGhee joins Nick and Paul to argue that morality must be central to how we think about the economy. They explore how racial division has been weaponized to undermine collective action, why “structural racism” can’t be addressed without naming the powerful actors behind it, and how inclusive economic policies lead to more prosperity for everyone.

Part of our Back-to-Basics summer series—essential listening for anyone ready to reject trickle-down and reimagine the economy as a moral system built on trust, justice, and cooperation.

This episode originally aired April 2, 2019.

Heather McGhee is a policy expert, author, and advocate for economic and racial justice. She is the former president of the progressive think tank Demos and currently serves as a Distinguished Senior Fellow. Heather is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, The Sum of Us, and her work has appeared in outlets such as The New York Times, The Nation, and NBC News.

Back to Basics Series: Is Economics Moral? (with Heather McGhee)

35 minutes

Part of our Back-to-Basics summer series—essential listening for anyone ready to reject trickle-down and reimagine the economy as a moral system built on trust, justice, and cooperation.

This episode originally aired April 2, 2019.