While everyone's obsessing over digital lead gen and automation, veteran marketer David Mundy argues the best companies are going back to basics - building actual relationships and cutting through the noise.

George K and George A talk to David about:

• Not hiring marketers with playbooks, and hiring hunters who understand the market is dynamic AF
• Why SDRs should work under marketing (yes, really) for that crucial feedback loop
• Why early stage marketing teams need to know how to explain your product's implementation
• How storytelling isn't optional, it's the skill that separates good marketers from great ones

Plus: Why the most technical sellers are winning, how to manage up when founders think it's still 2016, and David's exact hiring playbook for early-stage companies.

This one's packed with tactical gold for anyone in go-to-market. Worth a listen if you're a marketer trying to break through the saturation or a CISO tired of getting bombarded with irrelevant pitches.

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🏳️‍🌈 It's PRIDE month! ALL PROFITS from all sales of the Pride collection during the month of June will be donated to scholarships for LGBTQ+ students in cybersecurity.

And this year we have generous vendor sponsors who will match our donation!

Shop swag, help students. You can shop the collection here: https://bkbtpodcast.shop/collections/pride-in-cyber

Erik Bloch, security operations expert and longtime infosec leader, joins the show to talk about the real problems plaguing SOCs and why the industry keeps missing the mark!

George K and George A talk to Erik about:

- The massive disconnect between what vendors think SOCs do vs. reality - spoiler alert: most founders have never worked in the trenches

- Why we're still fighting the same problems from 20 years ago - false positives aren't even 10% of the actual work, so why do we keep obsessing over them?

- The real burnout formula: high responsibility + low control + endless busywork that has nothing to do with catching bad guys

- Business alignment that actually works: Stop talking about theoretical $48 bazillion losses and start tying security outcomes to actual business growth

Whether you're a vendor or an executive leader, there's gold -- and data! -- in this episode. The "AI will solve everything" narrative is misleading, hear what actually works in security operations!

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🏳️‍🌈 It's PRIDE month! ALL PROFITS from all sales of the Pride collection during the month of June will be donated to scholarships for LGBTQ+ students in cybersecurity. 

And this year we have generous vendor sponsors who will match our donation! 

Shop swag, help students. You can shop the collection here: https://bkbtpodcast.shop/collections/pride-in-cyber

This conversation hits different. Mohammed "Moh" Waqas, CTO Healthcare at Armis, joined us to talk about burnout, mental health, and the hidden costs of our "always-on" cybersecurity culture.

George K and George A talk to Mohammad about:

• Why perfectionism in cyber is literally making us sick
• How epilepsy taught Moh to recognize burnout triggers before they hit
• The real cost of saying "yes" to every sales deadline
• Why your team needs mandatory disconnect time (and how to make it happen)
• Leading with radical transparency during layoffs and industry chaos

This isn't just feel-good advice – it's business-critical. Burned out teams cost more, perform worse, and leave faster.

Drop a comment: What's your biggest burnout trigger in cyber? Let's normalize this conversation.

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🏳️‍🌈 Pride Month is just around the corner! We're once again running our t-shirt campaign to raise money for scholarships for LGBTQ+ students in cybersecurity programs.

In the month of June, all profits from any Pride gear purchased from the BKBT Swag Store will be donated.

Set your reminders for June, and check out the collection: https://bkbtpodcast.shop/

Quinnlan Varcoe, founder of Blueberry Security, joins the show for a raw conversation about building a security startup!

Quinn takes us through her wild ride from SOC analyst to founder - including how she shut down her business only to relaunch it stronger than ever. 

George K and George A talk to Quinn about:

• Finding your true product-market fit in the security services space
• The brutal reality of B2B sales cycles (hint: they're WAY longer than you think)
• How literally ONE client call changed everything while she was recovering from surgery
• Her narrative-based approach to security operations training

Plus, Quinn opens up about her experience as a trans founder in cybersecurity, navigating both professional challenges and today's political climate.

This episode is PACKED with insights for founders, security practitioners, and anyone interested in the human side of building something from scratch. 

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🏳️‍🌈 Pride Month is just around the corner! We're once again running our t-shirt campaign to raise money for scholarships for LGBTQ+ students in cybersecurity programs.

In the month of June, all profits from any Pride gear purchased from the BKBT Swag Store will be donated.

Set your reminders for June, and check out the collection: https://bkbtpodcast.shop/

Dr. Kashyap "Kash" Thimmaraju joins the show to talk about a new study on burnout, wellbeing, and flow state in security operations.

• New research using psychologically validated scales to measure burnout in cybersecurity professionals
• How "flow state" might be the key to better performance AND preventing burnout
• The impact of remote work and isolation on security teams
• Practical techniques security leaders can implement TODAY to support their teams

Protecting our human resources is just as important as protecting our digital ones.

Dr. Thimmaraju and his co-authors' research points to a significant gap in how we understand and support the mental wellbeing of security professionals. It's time to start changing that conversation.

Mentioned this episode:

• Human Performance in Cybersecurity Operations Paper: https://flowguard-institute.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Human-Performance-in-Security-Operations.pdf
• Human performance in cybersecurity survey: http://flowguard-institute.com/hpcs
• Flow Guard Institute: http://flowguard-institute.com

Recorded LIVE at RSAC 2025: Don Jeter, Chief Meme Officer at Torq returns! He breaks down how Torq built a cult brand in cybersecurity around their "SOAR is Dead" campaign.

George K and George A talk to Don about:

• Harnessing creativity in an era of algorithmic optimization: “You're not remembered for the safe ideas ever"
• Building internal excitement with your team (especially sales) before launching campaigns
• Creating something people actually want to be part of, not just another product
• His beliefs that brand leads to demand

If you're tired of AI-generated content, algorithm chasing, and the same old B2B tech marketing playbook, this episode delivers practical advice on standing out in an oversaturated market.

This episode is presented in partnership with Torq.

Check out the full video version of this interview on YouTube.

George K and George A are off to San Francisco for RSAC 2025 this week. Here are some short musings on what they think they might see...

Mentioned: 

• Chase Cunningham has built an app that lets you rank vendor demos in real time! If you'd like to join the effort, you can do so here: https://10ringvendors.glide.page

“When you look at cybersecurity…we've got to be constantly thinking about how we disrupt ourselves in order to actually solve the problem."

Casey Ellis is a hacker, a founder, and an advisor and investor. Occupying a lot of different vantage points in cyber has given him a very unique perspective on the industry.

George K and George A talk to Casey about:

• How Casey went from hacker to solution architect to entrepreneur, creating a marketplace that connects ethical hackers with companies who need them
• Why security startups focused solely on acquisition are hurting the industry (and why defenders deserve better)
• The reality check on AI in security - separating hype from actual value
• Why human creativity will always be necessary in security (automation is great, but humans build systems and humans break them)

It’s real and it’s raw. As always.

👊⚡️🏳️‍🌈 

Our Pride campaign kicks off in June, and we're looking for a brave vendor sponsors! Queer communities are facing backlash and corporations are shrinking back into the shadows. 

We’re looking for courageous vendor partners and individuals who will consider matching donations to help us multiply the show's contribution. If you’d like to remain anonymous, that’s fine, too. After all it’s about getting resources to those who need it.

If you're interested, get in touch: [email protected] 

Jake Bernardes, CISO at Anecdotes, brings a uniquely adventurous spirit to this week’s show! And his ethos of “Don’t be an a**hole” is certainly one we can get behind.

George K and George A talk to Jake about:

• Jake's "inherent risk-taker" philosophy that's guided his career moves
• Why the best CISOs are "repulsed by the idea of being bored" and how that drives innovation
• The changing face of security leadership - from risk-averse consultants to today’s disruptive problem solvers
• His refreshingly honest take on how CISOs should interact with vendors: "Just don't be an a**hole"

Whether you're in the trenches, pitching security tools, or running a whole damn cyber program, Jake drops serious insights you can use.

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👊⚡️Support the show!

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

George K and George A are out this week to keynote SecureWorld Toronto and host the Cyber Pitch Battle Royale. Catch up on interviews you may have missed with:

• Stacey Lokey-Day on collecting experiences to build your career
• Candace Williams on the keys to networking
• Allan Alford on the best ways vendors can engage with CISOs and ensure they stay in good graces
• Jessica Andree on how to build loyalty and performance through better talent acquisition
• Kate Wood on the top 3 pieces of advice for advancing your career

———

👊⚡️SUPPORT THE SHOW!

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!