Jade O’Brien was a stock broker (equity sales)  for over 7 years. She then retrained as a teacher and has taught in both the state sector and the private sector in the UK.

Jade used to pitch me stock ideas and speak about the investment world. I was very curious on why she decided to change careers to become a teacher.

We chat about what drove Jade to the world of finance. What she viewed as the pros and cons, and what it is like as a woman in a male dominated world and advice she has.

Jade outlines her experience of finance which has many positives as well as challenges, and what might have changed over the decade.

(Ben) So what would you say to women wanting to make it in the city or in financial services?

We discuss the factors that made Jade change her jobs. How we might think about death and how she found teacher training.

We chat on how we might “value” teaching and why it’s hard to rate teachers. Why some people ask for more homework, and others ask for less homework and how both views can have merit.

We address:

This was an amazing long form conversation addressing many of the debates within education today.

Transcript and Video available here: https://www.thendobetter.com/arts/2023/2/2/jade-obrien-from-stockbroker-to-teacher-being-a-woman-in-finance-schools-and-teaching-podcast

Kanjun is co-founder and CEO of Generally Intelligent, an AI research company. She works on metascience ideas often with Michael Nielsen, a previous podcast guest. She’s a VC investor and co-hosts her own podcast for Generally Intelligent. She is part of building the Neighborhood, which is intergenerational campus in a square mile of central San Francisco. Generally Intelligent (as of podcast date ) are looking for great talent looking to work on AI.

We get a little nerdy on the podcast but we cover AI thinking, fears on rogue AI, and the breakthroughs of Chat AI. We discuss some of her latest ideas in meta science based on the work she has done with Michael Nielsen (previous podcast here) and what are the important questions we should be looking at.

We chat about the challenge of old institutions,  the value of dance and creativity and why her friends use “to kanjun” as a verb.

We cover her ideas on models of trauma and why EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing therapy) and cognitive therapies might work.

We discuss why dinosaurs didn’t develop more.

We chat around “what is meaning” and “what is the structure of knowledge”, what are the strengths and weakness of old institutions; culture vs knowledge vs history  and other confusing questions.

Kanjun gives her advice on how to think about dance (dance like you are moving through molasses).

"Dance is inside of you. It just needs to be unlocked."

We play underrated/overrated on:  having agency, city planning, death of institutions, innovation agencies, high frequency trading; diversity

Kanjun thinks on how capitalism might want to be augmented and what excites Kanjun about AI and complex systems.

Kanjun asks me questions and I offer my critique on Effective Altruism. 

This is quirky long form conversation on a range of fascinating topics.

Transcript and video available here: https://www.thendobetter.com/arts/2023/1/17/kanjun-qiu-ai-metascience-institutional-knowledge-trauma-models-podcast

Florence Evans is an art dealer, historian, curator, collector and mud larker.  We chat on what does mudlarking tell us about history ? What does art tell us about being human ?

Florrie chats on the cultural history of mudlarking, the stories found objects represent from the both the darker side of human history such as beads and the slave trade, as well as the lighter sides of found items.

We discuss one of her favourite finds, a whole child’s shoe from the Tudor era.

We chat on what we’ve puzzled out from our river finds including a hand blown glass apothecary bottle from the 1600s.

We discuss: bottles, beads, coins, stories, Roman items, buttons and costumes and more…

We touch on her philosophy as an art collector and what art means to us as humans.

What art Florrie likes and collects and the challenge of modern art.

Florrie gives her advice on art collecting and life.

Transcript and links available here: www.thendobetter.com/arts/2022/12/27/florence-evans-mud-larking-art-collecting-and-art-dealing-podcast

Michael Nielsen is a scientist at the Astera Institute. He helped pioneer quantum computing and the modern open science movement. He is a leading thinker on the topic of meta science and how to improve science, in particular, the social processes of science. His latest co-authored work is  ‘A Vision of metascience: An engine of improvement for the social processes of Science’ co-authored with Kanjun Qiu . His website notebook is here, with further links to his books including on quantum, memory systems, deep learning, open science and the future of matter.

I ask: What is the most important question in science or meta science we should be seeking to understand at the moment ?

We discuss his vision for what a metascience ecosystem could be; what progress could be and ideas for improving the the culture of science and social processes.

We imagine what an alien might think about our social processes and discuss failure audits, high variance funding and whether organisations really fund ‘high risk’ projects if not that many fail, and how we might measure this.

We discuss how these ideas might not work and be wrong; the difficulty of (the lack of) language for new forming fields; how an interdisciplinary institute might work.

The possible importance of serendipity and agglomeration effects; what to do about attracting outsiders, and funding unusual ideas.

We touch on the stories of Einstein, Katalin Kariko (mRNA) and Doug Prasher (molecular biologist turned van driver) and what they might tell us.

We discuss how metascience can be treated as a research field and also as an entrepreneurial discipline.

We discuss how decentralisation may help. How new institutions may help. The challenges funders face in wanting to wait until ideas become clearer.

We discuss the opportunity that developing nations such as Indonesia might have.

We chat about rationality and critical rationality.

Michael gives some insights into how AI art might be used and how we might never master certain languages, like the languages of early computing.

We end on some thoughts Michael might give his younger self:

Transcript/Video available here: https://www.thendobetter.com/arts/2022/11/15/michael-nielsen-metascience-how-to-improve-science-open-science-podcast

Saloni Dattani is a founding editor at Works in Progress, a researcher at Our World in Data and a commissioning editor at Stripe Press. She has recently been profiled by Vox as part of the Future Perfect 50. Saloni is an excellent thinker on progress and science with recent articles for Wired (on making science better) and Guardian (on challenge trials). 

Saloni tells me what are the most important questions in science that we should be working on.

We discuss making science better and thinking around challenge trials, making science more open source, reforming peer review and thinking around experimental clinical trial design.

We talk about vaccines, why Saloni tends to optimism and what risks and opportunities she is thinking about.

Borrowing from Tyler Cowen, I ask: 

How ambitious are you ?

Which of your beliefs are you least rational about?”  (Or what is she most irrational about?)

What is something esoteric you do ?

We play over rated / under rated on:

Substack, Misinformation, Doing a PhD, Women in Science; Vaccines and Drugs

We end on Saloni’s current projects and advice.

Transcript and video available here: www.thendobetter.com/arts/2022/11/8/saloni-dattani-improving-science-important-questions-in-science-open-science-reforming-peer-review-podcast

Jérôme Tagger is CEO of Preventable Surprises. Jérôme is a thinker on long term ESG trends (a catch-all phrase for extra-financial environment, social and governance) and systemic risks. He was a Director at the Global Impact Investing Network, the founding COO of the UN-backed Principles for Responsible Investment, Head of Research at Eurosif and Chief Revenue Officer at ImpactAlpha.

Link to video and transcript: www.thendobetter.com/investing/2022/11/2/jrme-tagger-sustainability-esg-as-a-negotiation-impact-investing-podcast

We chat about the differing roles of companies, civil society and government. What Jérôme thinks about the most important levers and theories of change.

Why ESG could be thought of as a form of negotiation.

Whether we have an idea on what the neglected issues or under rated ESG challenges are.

What you should be thinking of as the chief exec of a think tank start-up. How we should think about building institutional capital. The importance of relationships and “social capital”.

Whether we should consider “less democracy, technocractics rather than democratic decision making.

What Jérôme thinks about billionaire philanthropy.

What Jérôme is hearing about views on regulation on greenwashing and, in particular, on SFDR (Sustainable Finance Disclosure Regulation, EU).

Jérôme ends with advice and current projects.

Mark Koyama is an Associate Professor of Economics at George Mason. Mark researches comparative national state economic development and the rise of religious tolerance. He is interested in how historical institutions functioned and in the relationship between culture and economic performance.   

Transcript:  www.thendobetter.com/investing/2022/10/9/mark-koyama-how-the-world-became-rich-economic-history-intangibles-culture-progress-podcast 

I ask why it has taken economists and historians so long to form central views on how we have become rich?

Mark discusses what historic progress might tells us about economic development today.  I ask about the interaction between the main factors behind economic progress such as: institutions, culture, infrastructure, geography, energy. 

I question the role of common law and ask about living constitutions. Mark discusses his reading of the literature and how the UK is relatively unique in its living constitutions. 

I query the role of intangibles and the patent system and briefly lay out the case (after Brad De Long) for importance of industrial labs and the corporate form. Mark discusses these factors and their importance from the 1870s but also what was important pre-1870.  

We chat about culture (using Joe Henrich’s terms) as a set of heuristics. Mark discusses the literature on the importance and role of slavery (probably not the most major facotr in the UK’s industrialization, but still heavily argued), and the role and roots of social progress such as women’s rights.   

We cover impacts of war and also the black death from an economic history view and we discuss the challenge on climate.  

We play over/underrated on : GDP, carbon tax, representative democracy governance mechanisms, universal basic income.  

Mark ends with current projects and advice.  

"….So podcasts; everything is online basically. The young person who's ambitious and interested can actually get to speed quickly. So you can teach yourself econometrics by watching tons of YouTube videos. Most people won't because there's other stuff to watch on YouTube, there's other stuff to do. I could be teaching myself foreign languages on YouTube and I'm not doing it because my opportunity costs I guess is maybe high. But if you're young and wanted to study this stuff, you can get a huge head start just by use of the internet cleverly. Tyler Cowen’s advice is find the right mentors. Find some people and learn from them. But you get a huge amount early on to give yourself a head start before you go to university because to be honest, the university experience isn't necessarily going to be all that…"

Jacob Soll is a professor of philosophy, history and accounting. His latest book is Free Market: The History of an Idea. Jake has works on the history of accounting, The Reckoning: Financial Accountability and the Rise and Fall of Nations (2014); the influence of Machiavelli, "The Prince" (2005) and Louis XIV’s First minster, Jean-Baptiste Cobert, The Information Master (2009). Jake works on accounting standards and financial transparency as well as the history of ideas.

Transcript, video and links here: https://www.thendobetter.com/investing/2022/9/24/jacob-soll-the-history-of-free-market-ideas-cicero-adam-smith-hamilton-machievelli-podcast

We discuss is better accounting can save the world by looking at externalities, natural capital and human capital better.

We chat about the central role of Cicero and stoic thought in the history of free market thinkers, and how Cicero was in this respect more influential than Aristotle.

Jake talks about how Christian thinkers, and Franciscan monks thought about free markets and also Alexander Hamilton and Machievelli.

We discuss the role of institutions in shaping thought. Jake argues for the importance of patenting ideas and if UK’s patent office gave the country an edge when the industrial revolution started.

We debate if “idea” or “dream” would be a better word to encompass the historic thinking on free markets.

We discuss the role of culture, to what extent protectionism and some tariffs helped economies develop historically.

We play underrated/overrated on: GDP as a measure, carbon tax, standardized sustainability measures, and UBI, universal basic income.

We end on Jake’s current projects and life advice. Study more serious humanities books!

Naomi Fisher is a clinical psychologist. She has written a book: Changing Our Minds: How children can take control of their own learning. The book is an excellent look at self-directed education also known in the UK as home education, or in the US as home school or unschooling.  

We discuss her background as a psychologist and her work with autistic people. We chat about her experience of eleven schools and why she has ended up asking questions about control. Why we control people and particularly why we control children.

Naomi discusses the different schools of thought on education and why progressive doesn't necessarily mean child-led education and why she likes the idea (Alison Gopnik) of a child as scientist.

We chat about what Naomi views as  the problems of the current system such as the overuse of exams and why behvaiourism only covers a tiny slice of what learning is in the real world. Naomi highlights some of the benefits of a self-directed education process and what home education can bring.

We talk about the amount of time we have spent in the world of Minecraft. Why parents may be overworried about the use of technology and screen time. Why YouTube might be more beneficial than not.

Naomi answers my question on how to deal with child meltdown and outlines the idea of zones of tolerance. I pose a question on to what extent we should influence a child’s learning “syllabus” and Naomi outlines her view that a child should always have agency and not be forced into “learning” but that does not mean we should not seek to give a child a rich environment and opportunity to learn.

Naomi answers listener questions. First, if home education is only for rich people, and, second, the impacts of the pandemic on home educators.

We play overrated/underrated and Naomi rates: the government setting the curriculum,  the role of exams, social media and technical colleges.

Naomi talks about her latest projects including a second book on neurodiversity and self-directed education, called “A Different Way to Learn” available in 2023.

Naomi ends with advice:

Transcript available here: https://www.thendobetter.com/arts/2022/8/31/naomi-fisher-home-education-unschool-agency-in-learning-meltdowns-child-led-learning-cognitive-psychology-podcast

Kana Chan is living in Kamikatsu which is Japan’s first “zero waste” village in rural Japan.  She writes a substack at Tending Gardens and runs INOW which is an educational homestay programme to stay to at Kamikatsu. In 2021, she was selected as an Emerging Climate Leader Asia-Pacific through the ProSPER.Net Leadership Programme.   She has lived and worked in Bangladesh, and travelled widely as a photographer and story teller. Kana cares deeply about climate action, sustainable tourism, and education.

I ask Kana about how she arrived in Kamikatsu.

I ask what people should understand or misunderstand, how Kana finds Japanese culture and how it differs between rural and city. What she misses about the city.

What people have learned coming to Kamikatsu, all the farming knowledge she has learned growing and harvesting her own food, and what the process of tea farming (awa bancha) has been like.

Kana explains that zero waste currently means here that 80% of all waste in the village is recycled (in 45 different categories!) and how the villagers manage their waste systems.

We play overrated/underated on toilets that play music, sitting in hot baths and Japan train journeys.

Kana ends on her latest projects and her advice on what can be learned from disconnecting from a culture of convenience.

"I think being able to just see a diverse amount of the way people live and seeing how people choose to spend their time, how people choose to spend their money, I think can be just a really enriching experience. And so you have those things to contrast and see, "Oh, that's probably something I can take into my own life or not." I don't think the countryside is necessarily for everyone, but I do think that people can incorporate aspects that bring more nature into their lives or bring more self-sufficiency into their lives and I think a good starting point for that is spending time in the countryside and then being able to see what you can take back to wherever home is for you.

If you do decide to move to the countryside, just changing your frame of mind and seeing the things that are inconveniences as opportunities for you to spend your time in other ways, and disconnecting from a culture of convenience can be just a really personally enriching thing. That's what I've found for myself and so, yeah, I hope everyone gets to spend some time in the countryside; whether it's permanent, temporal, or just transient. If Kamikatsu interests you in particular or sustainability from a countryside perspective, I'd be happy to welcome you here to Kamikatsu"

Transcript and link to video available here: www.thendobetter.com/arts/2022/8/1/kana-chan-living-in-a-zero-waste-village-in-rural-japan-kamikatsu-podcast