Better Words

Elise Esther Hearst is a Melbourne-based playwright and author, working and living on Boon Wurrung country. She studied Creative Arts at Melbourne University and playwriting at the Royal Court Theatre in London. Upcoming productions include A Very Jewish Christmas Carol (Melbourne Theatre Company) and Yentl (Malthouse Theatre). One Day We’re All Going to Die, published by Harper Collins Australia, is Elise's debut novel. Elise is currently working on her second novel.

Our interview begins at  18.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: The Boyfriend Candidate by Ashley Winstead

Alexis, a school librarian, gets caught in a fake relationship with local political candidate Logan. A fun slow-burn romance with heart.

Caitlin read a copy of this from Harlequin.

Michelle recommends: Factory Girls by Michelle Gallen

A novel that's perfect for fans of Derry Girls. It's 1994 and Meave is waiting for her final exam results and praying it's enough to see her out of her small Northern Irish hometown.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Being compared to Sally Rooney and Meg Mason as part of the 'sad girl lit' trend
• Writing about living as the descendant of a Holocaust survivor and exploring Australian Jewish culture
• The inspiration Elise took from her own grandmother in writing the character of Cookie
• The Pandemic Skip and not having our shit together
• Elise's journey from playwright to novelist and the differences between the two forms

Books and other things mentioned:

• Big Girl, Small Town by Michelle Gallen
• Sorrow and Bliss by Meg Mason (listen to our interview here)
• Secrets by Jacqueline Wilson
• A Very Jewish Christmas Carol
• Yentl

Follow @eliseestherhearst on Instagram

One Day We're All Going to Die is available now. Thank you to Harlequin for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Please note that we choose podcast guests independently of Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers. Although her job does help put us in touch with authors, we choose our guests based on what we've enjoyed reading and think you'd find interesting.

Clare Fletcher was born and raised in regional Queensland, Australia. Her debut novel, romantic comedy Five Bush Weddings, was published in 2022, and today we're discussing the follow-up, Love Match. Clare also co-hosts That Rom Com Pod with fellow author (and previous Better Words guest) Karina May.

Our interview begins at  00:28

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: Straight Expectations by Calum McSwiggan

After a huge fight with his friends, Max wishes for an 'easy' life like straight kids enjoy. But he gets way more than he bargained for – waking up to find he's straight and suddenly without best friend Dean.

We loved the way this book explores male friendships and the way Max learned so much about himself in the parallel world. A fun and quick queer read.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Writing an 'extended love letter' to the small town Clare grew up in – even when she chose to leave
• How Love Match developed out of the characters in Clare's debut and the alchemy of writing and ideas
• Why Clare wanted to tell part of the story through seven vintage dresses (and the real-life collection that inspired them)
• How Clare's return to sport in her early 30s inspired the team sport storyline in Love Match and the emotions involved in seeing women's sports represented in media
• The differences between women's and men's sporting teams
• Clare's writing career and her journey to publication

Books and other things mentioned:

• Audiobooks are now included in Spotify Premium!
• Michelle's bookshelves
• Trans author recommendations
• Strong Female Character by Fern Brady
• Becoming Us by Jake and Hannah Graf
• Palm Springs (film)
• Hotshot by Clare Lyndon
• Rachael Treasure (author)
• Maya Linnell (author)
• Penelope Janu (author)
• McLeod's Daughters (TV series)
• The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo by Taylor Jenkins Reid
• Girls Don't Play Sport by Chloe Dalton
• Mel Buttle's mixed emotions around Matilda's success
• Cleat Cute by Meryl Wilsner
• Spotlight (film)
• Why are Deb Balls still a thing?
• The 'Eagle Drop' to Eagle Rock by Daddy Cool
• Duck à l'Orange for Breakfast by Karina May (listen to our interview)
• Love on Campus (podcast)
• That Rom Com Pod (podcast)
• You're Wrong About (podcast)
• Just the Gist (podcast)
• The Castle (film) "it's the vibe"
• Puberty Blues (TV series)

Follow @clarefletcherwriter on Instagram

Love Match is available now. Thank you to Penguin Books Australia for providing us with copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Lex Croucher grew up in Surrey, reading a lot of books and making friends with strangers on the internet, and now lives in London with an elderly cat. With a background in social media, Lex now writes historical-ish rom-coms for adults (Reputation, Infamous) and historical fantasy rom-coms for teenagers. We're discussing their debut YA novel, Gwen and Art Are Not in Love.

Our interview begins at  34:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: Fish Out of Water

We are going full spoilers with this book because we found it quite problematic and wanted to fully discuss our thoughts.

The blurb makes it sound like swimmer Finn may be questioning his sexuality, but the book takes a dark turn into emotional abuse and coercive control with no thorough questioning representation and a problematic ending.

*We read copies provided by Text Publishing for review.

In this interview, we chat about:

• What is 'authentic historical fiction'? Why Gwen and Art is a blend of fantasy and history
• The difference between writing Regency romance and Gwen and Art
• Cover art to drool over – including a special edition proof with scratch-off gold foil heart
• Why Lex sought comfort in reading and writing queer YA during London lockdowns
• An overview of Trouble – which basically asks 'what if Maria in Sound of Music was coming to the house with nefarious intentions'
• The beauty of 'unlikeable' protagonists
• The madness of having two books released within months of each other
• Lex's journey to publication (both non-fiction and fiction) and what it takes to make money as an author

Books and other things mentioned:

• After the Fall by Louise O'Neill (listen to our interview)
• A Knight's Tale (film)
• Georgette Heyer (author)
• Bridgerton (series)
• Gideon the Ninth by Tamsyn Muir
• Any Way the Wind Blows by Rainbow Rowell
• Double Booked by Lily Lindon
• 'Dumb bitch lit' with Genevieve Novak

Follow @lexcanroar on Instagram

Gwen and Art Are Not in Love is available in Australia and the UK now. Trouble will be released in July.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Ashley Kalagian Blunt is the author of Dark Mode, an internationally published psychological thriller. Her earlier books are How to Be Australian, a memoir, and My Name Is Revenge, collected fiction and essays, which was a finalist in the 2018 Carmel Bird Digital Literary Award. Her writing appears in the Sydney widely across Australian publications, and she co-hosts James and Ashley Stay at Home, a podcast about writing, creativity and health, and teaches creative writing. Originally from Canada, she has lived and worked in South Korea, Peru and Mexico.

Our interview begins at  18:00

*Please note this book includes graphic descriptions of sexual and physical violence. Our discussions in this interview about true crime and the manosphere may also be triggering*

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: Yellowface by R.F. Kuang*

A scathing exploration of cultural appropriation and publishing. A compelling read you'll race through.

*Caitlin read a copy through her role at Harper Collins Australia

Michelle recommends: Dancing Barefoot by Alice Boyle*

A delightful YA that puts a queer twist on the classic high school romance.

*Michelle read a copy from Text Publishing.

Bonus recommendation: In Search of a Shepherd by Dave Burton

In this interview, we chat about:

• How this fictional thriller was inspired by The Men Who Hate Women by Laura Bates and the 'manosphere'
• WTF *is* the dark web?
• Ashley's approach to her online presence and how it influenced the book (and why you need to change your passwords)
• The Black Dahlia and how true crime podcasts inspired Ashley's writing
• The surprising links between Ashley's research into genocide and the manosphere
• The move from memoir and essays into writing and publishing fiction

Books and other things mentioned:

• I'll Be Gone in the Dark by Michelle McNamara
• Redhanded episode 291: The Silk Road
• Root of Evil (podcast)
• The Somerton Man was finally identified after decades of being a fascinating unsolved mystery (ABC feature)
• Gunpowder (TV series)
• Triflers Need Not Apply by Camilla Bruce
• Women in Crime (podcast)

Follow @AKalagianBlunt on Instagram

Dark Mode is available now. Thank you to UQP for providing us with copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Karina May is a Sydney-based former magazine journalist turned digital marketer, avid reader and writer of lively love stories that span the globe. When she's not dreaming up her next meet-cute, you'll likely find her rescuing her paperback from the bath, or out guzzling espresso martinis in the name of research. We're discussing her new novel, Duck á l'Orange for Breakfast.

Our interview begins at  21:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

It's been a real week for us reading-wise. Michelle's been abandoning books left, right and centre and we couldn't settle on a book club. We're both in a bit of a reading slump!

So, this intro is slightly chaotic with a moving-to-the-UK update from Michelle, plus book and TV recommendations from both.

Caitlin recommends: Happy Place by Emily Henry and Queen Charlotte (TV)

Michelle recommends: Double Booked by Lily Lindon and Blue Lights (TV)

In this interview, we chat about:

• How Karina's own experience undergoing two brain surgeries inspired the novel
• In contrast, how Karina wrote what she didn't know using the help of a French chef to create recipes for the novel
• Why IKEA became such a focal point of Max's story
• Karina's love of travel and how it helped shape the novel
• The journey to publication and why Karina has a second book coming out this year

Books and other things mentioned:

• The Fault in Our Stars by John Green
• 500 Days of Summer (film)

Follow @karinamaywrite on Instagram

Duck á l'Orange for Breakfast is available now. Thank you to Pan Macmillan Australia for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Trang Thanh Tran writes speculative stories about food, belonging and the Vietnamese diaspora. When not writing, they can be found over-caffeinating on iced coffee and watching zombie movies. She Is A Haunting is their debut novel.

Our interview begins at  00:19

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: The Trial by Laura Bates

An intense survival story about a group of teens stranded on an island after a plane crash. You'll be hooked from the start.

Michelle recommends: Homecoming by Kate Morton

A beautiful and moving novel exploring dark family secrets across parallel timelines in 2018 and 1959.

In this interview, we chat about:

• How 'zombie ants' inspired so many elements of the haunting explored in the novel
• How Trang revises her novels with a reverse outline spreadsheet and how this keeps tension and suspense throughout the novel
• The ongoing consequences of families being split by an ocean
• Feeling like an outsider in the country your parents called home
• Weaving in historical research (without it taking over the story)
• Exploring the relationship between 'expert' outsiders and marginalised communities
• How music inspires Trang's writing process
• Trang's journey to publication – within the year she'd allowed herself to explore writing
• How it felt to see a full Vietnamese name on the New York Times bestseller list

Books and other things mentioned:

• The Burning by Laura Bates
• Just the Gist's episode on the Trashman Yacht Sinking
• See the three covers of Kate Morton's Homecoming here
• The Last of Us (TV series)
• The She Is A Haunting playlist

Follow Trang @nvtran_

She Is a Haunting is available now. Thank you to Bloomsbury for providing us with copies in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Claire Christian tells stories: she is a writer, theatre maker and facilitator. She has three novels published with Text publishing. Beautiful Mess won the Text Prize in 2016. It’s Been A Pleasure, Noni Blake was released in 2020. She has had the great joy of directing Michelle Law’s smash hit comedy Single Asian Female since 2017. She is a proud member of the Mama’s Boys theatre collective whose hip-hop theatrical explosion Brothers Book Club premiered in 2022. Her Plays Lysa and the Freeborn Dames, Talking to Brick Walls, Hedonism’s Second Album and The Landmine is Me are available through Playlab. Today, we're discussing her third novel, West Side Honey.

Our interview begins at  26:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: Friendaholic by Elizabeth Day*

In this memoir meets conversation, Elizabeth Day explores what it means to be a good friend versus being good at friendships (no matter the cost). We both really enjoyed this and loved the way various friendships were explored in the book.

We read copies provided by Harper Collins Australia.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Subverting traditional romance tropes and creating realistic characters
• Exploring self-love and self-acceptance in West Side Honey
• How Claire's experiences online dating inspired conversations between characters in the novel (and the dating profiles)
• How to write great sex scenes – and not get embarrassed when your editor reads them
• The big changes Claire had to make to her first draft
• Why Claire chose to explore some dark and deep feelings in what is otherwise a super uplifting book
• Claire's journey into the arts and theatre world, before her publishing deal
• Why Claire wanted to show a single mum with a great sex life in Cleo's story

Books and other things mentioned:

• Michelle's writing on grief when it doesn't 'feel right'
• How to Be Happy by David Burton
• Listen to our chat with Nina Kenwood on the re-read session
• Loner by Georgina Young
• Listen to our chat with Sarah Ayoub
• Social Queue by Kay Kerr (listen to our chat)
• Loveless by Alice Oseman (listen to our chat)

Follow Claire @claireandpearl on Instagram

West Side Honey is available now. Thank you to Text Publishing for providing us with copies in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Josh grew up on a farm in the Lake District before moving to Manchester with his family, where he spent his teenage years loving the city. He moved to London to train at RADA as an actor and has performed in the West End and on Broadway. After deciding to change careers, Josh began training as a mental health nurse and, at the same time, started writing his first book. Josh lives in Manchester with his husband* and their dog Dodger.

*Since we recorded this, Josh and David got married! Congratulations! (Take a look at their handsome pics here)

Our interview begins at  [time]

Before you dive into the interview, be sure to listen to Michelle's brand new audio documentary, The Great Australian Camel Race for ABC RN's The History Listen. Listen here.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: The Grandest Bookshop in the World by Amelia Mellor

A magical and captivating older middle-grade novel about two girls growing up in a brilliant Melbourne bookshop in the 1890s.

Michelle recommends: The Secret Life of Albert Entwistle by Matt Cain

This is one friend of the podcast Laura Kay recommended back in early 2021. A gorgeous contemporary novel where you just want to befriend all the characters. I was enchanted by Albert’s story and utterly invested in making sure he found himself again.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Creating the dystopian setting of HappyHead
• Josh's career change from actor to mental health nurse and how his experience inspired the novel
• How Josh's experience of growing up gay is mirrored through the challenges the main character Seb faces in accepting his sexuality
• The impact that seeing things like Strictly Come Dancing's first male/male pairing had on queer communities (see one of their dances here)
• The deep and ongoing impact that shame around sexuality has on people
• Josh's drama school and acting experience (and the hangovers from that, which also influenced the book)
• How Josh got his publication deal and what's next

Books and other things mentioned:

• The Portable Door (film)
• Becoming Ted by Matt Cain
• Drag Addict (musical)
• The Hush by Sara Foster – our interview also included a lot of Sara's research into the dystopian genre which is fascinating in the context of our chat with Josh.
• The Handmaid's Tail by Margaret Atwood
• The Great British Bake Off
• The Institute (play written by Josh's husband David Dawson)
• My Policeman (film)
• Queer As Folk (TV series)
• Jules Von Hep's incredible white bridal suit
• Cats (the movie)
• Back to the Future (musical)
• Matilda (musical and movie)
• The First Time I Thought I Was Dying by Sarah Walker (listen to our interview)
• Moulin Rouge (movie)
• Dear Evan Hansen (movie)
• Dumplin' (movie)
• It's a Sin (TV series)
• In Our Blood (TV series)

Follow Josh @smudgecotton

HappyHead is available in the UK and Australia now! Thank you to Bloomsbury for sending us copies to read in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Genevieve Novak is a writer from all over, but who now lives in Melbourne on Wurundjeri land. She writes romantic comedies, women’s fiction, and columns for The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald that make men on Twitter very upset. Her first novel, No Hard Feelings, was released in 2021, and her second novel, Crushing, is out now.

Genevieve's corgi Victor also joins us and you'll hear him in a few places.

Our interview begins at  20:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: Janice Hallett's The Appeal and The Mysterious Case of the Alperton Angels

Janice Hallett's mystery novels feel truly fresh and unique. They're always in the style of 'found documents', a collection of emails, texts, briefings and other documents.

Both are intriguing and totally gripping novels that you can get swept up in over the course of a few hours.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Why Genevieve calls her books 'dumb bitch lit' and why the main characters of both her novels make kinda infuriating decisions
• How Marie's past relationships are represented in Crushing and how she needs to rebuild her sense of self outside these men
• Genevieve's writing process and whether the character or plot comes first
• The ugly reality of jealousy in friendships and between siblings
• The overwhelm/strangeness of building modern relationships over text and apps
• How we value ambition and career 'success' and how it's explored in the novel
• Striking the right balance between observations, wit and humour in writing
• Genevieve's journey to publication with her debut, No Hard Feelings

Books and other things mentioned:

• Wrong Place Wrong Time by Gillian McAllister (Michelle's recommendation)
• Michelle's Substack review of The Mysterious Case of the Alperton Angels
• The Twyford Code by Janice Hallett
• Cultish by Amanda Montell
• I'll Be Gone in the Dark by Michelle McNamara
• Janice Hallett's success discussed in The Bookseller
• Well-dressed and distressed: why sad young women are the latest book cover trend via The Guardian
• Shameless Media weekly newsletter (sorry, we can't link to the specific edition we mentioned)

Follow Genevieve @genevieve.nvk

Crushing is available now. Thank you to Harper Collins Australia for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Please note that we choose podcast guests independently of Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers. Although her job does help put us in touch with authors, we choose our guests based on what we've enjoyed reading and think you'd find interesting.

Karen Comer is a freelance editor and presents writing workshops to children and adults. Earlier in her career, she worked in educational publishing and was the editor for the children's art magazine BIG. She lives in Melbourne. Grace Notes, a YA verse novel, was published in February 2023 with Hachette. Her MG verse novel, Sunshine on Vinegar Street, will be published in June 2023 with Allen & Unwin.

Our interview begins at  00:12:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: One Night with You by Laura Jane Williams

One Night With You has an excellent rom-com premise: Nick is new to London and needs to buy a couch. Ruby is moving to Manchester and needs to sell her couch. They meet on Facebook Marketplace and end up having a one-night stand. That should be it, but no! They keep crossing paths and stay in each other’s lives as Nick explores his new life and Ruby is working on a documentary for her masters. A brilliantly fun, classic rom-com.

Caitlin read a review copy through Harper Collins Australia.

Michelle recommends: In Case of Emergency by Poorna Bell

After a traumatic accident, Bel has to face the reality that her independence may have pushed many of her loved ones away. So she sets out to reconnect – first with a former best friend and then with her sister. A beautiful contemporary novel exploring growing up British Indian, sisterhood and friendships.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Why Grace Notes was never meant to be about the pandemic
• How Karen researched the art forms in the novel (graffiti and violin) and why it evolved from just Crux's perspective to a dual narrative
• The fascinating story behind the Grace Notes cover
• How the pandemic experience in Melbourne shaped the storyline
• The delicate process of drafting verse and how Karen combines emotions and story in such a small space
• Karen's MG verse novel, Sunshine on Vinegar Street
• The journey from manuscript to two book deals – and the 13 years of hard work behind it
• The beauty of editing and shaping our words

Books and other things mentioned:

• Stronger by Poorna Bell
• In Search of Silence by Poorna Bell
• Laura Jane Williams on Better Words
• Yinka, Where is Your Huzband? by Lizzie Damilola Blackburn (listen to our interview)
• Leanne Yong's interview for Two Can Play That Game
• Sarah Crossan's verse novels

Follow Karen @karen__comer

Grace Notes is available now! Thank you to Hachette for sending us a copy of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod