Life is a series of moments strung together, colored by experiences that mark our journey from one milestone to the next. Join hosts Holli and Robert as they celebrate their age and talk fondly of their six decades lived as a testament to their resilience and positivity.  They share insights on marriage, parenting, and the value of a strong support system. Spanning topics like career transitions and entrepreneurship, personal growth, and family dynamics, the duo candidly shares the wisdom garnered from their own experiences, shedding light on the trajectory from their youth to the seasoned perspectives they now hold in their sixties. The episode doesn't shy away from discussing the significance of growing older with gratitude, maintaining health, forging and nurturing relationships, and embracing change. This episode of 'Between Over & Next' will inspire listeners to lead a life brimming with joy and fulfillment, irrespective of their age.

• Age is just a number; mindset and embracing every moment are the true determinants of a fulfilling life.
• Investing in personal and professional growth in your twenties lays a strong foundation for the future.
• The thirties and forties are pivotal for balancing family life with personal aspirations and maintaining strong relationships.
• Reflection and reevaluation become more intrinsic in one's fifties, setting the stage for a focused and intentional approach to the coming years.
• Lifelong learning, self-care, and giving back to the community are essential practices for a happy and meaningful life.

"Time seems to move so much faster as you get older.""Invest in your relationships over and over and over again.""We are the architect of our happiness.""I am grateful for the abundance in my life."

In today's rapidly evolving world, the concept of a lifelong career is no longer the norm. The journey between where we are, where we have been, and where we want to be can often seem like a complex maze. However, as the insightful podcast "Between Over and Next" reveals, it also offers a rich space full of possibilities for personal and professional growth. Hosts Holli and Robert introduce us to the inspiring story of Shannon Mayernik, who at 41, discovered her passion for herbalism and transformed her life by leaving the confines of a loathed publishing job to create a business bursting with purpose. 

Shannon reminisces about the pivotal moment that shifted her career trajectory - a spontaneous visit to a local farm that led to her epiphany and decisive career shift from a twelve-year stint in publishing to pursuing herbalism. The narrative unfolds as she shares her explorations in herbalism and the joys of working harmoniously with nature. Shannon deconstructs the idea of plant medicine, touching upon how common herbs like ginger, lemon balm, and chamomile can be used as natural remedies for the body's well-being. This podcast episode illustrates the power of embracing one's true calling and how nature, entrepreneurship, and personal well-being can intertwine to foster a meaningful life.

1. Shannon Mayernik took a significant leap from a career in publishing to founding her own herbalism business, emphasizing the importance of following one's passion.
2. Plant medicine and herbalism offer natural alternatives to conventional medication for common ailments such as colds, sleep issues, and digestive troubles.
3. Herb gardening can be both a therapeutic pastime and a sustainable way to cultivate personal health remedies.
4. Educating oneself and being financially pragmatic are crucial when transitioning to a passion-led career.
5. Starting small and growing one's passion for natural health into a business is possible with dedication, patience, and support.

 "I went to a local farm just to pick up eggs in the morning. And as I was driving out, it just hit me. I said I had to quit my job. This is not what I want to do.""I followed my passion. I fell in love with herbalism and really just followed it." "You don't want to just grow all of these plants and then come fall, they die. You want to be using them throughout the year.""Dandelions? Everyone looks at it as a weed. It's not a weed. It could be used medicinally from flower to root. And it's great for your digestive system. It's good for immunity, it's good for the liver.""You're always going to be thinking about work... It just comes with owning your own business."

Shannon is an herbalist and plant medicine maker who started her green journey back in 2012. She graduated from Chestnut School of Herbal Medicine and became an herbalist under the apprenticeship of Robin Rose Bennet. Shannon graduated from the Academy of Culinary Nutrition in 2015 and became a Master Food Preserver in 2019. In 2022, Shannon became a Level 1 Certified Aromatherapist through the School for Aromatic Studies & in 2024, Shannon became a Flower Essence Practitioner. In 2015 she launched Mayernik Kitchen with her husband Matt, a Modern Day Herbal Apothecary in Pompton Plains, NJ. They are committed to producing pure herbal preparations and educating others on the art of growing and making medicine from plants. They offer a wide spectrum of plants and herbal medicines, integrating and preserving the sacred bounty. They create more than 75 products, created from many of the herbs sourced from their New Jersey farm. 

Courses Learn about gardening, growing flowers, & maintaining house plantsHerb Farmer Apprenticeship  The Mayernik Kitchen Table embraces natural wellness and sustainability while enjoying video lessons, live events, conversations, and Q&A sessions

In this episode of "Between Over & Next," hosts Holli and Robert sit down with Jill Frechtman to delve into her journey from creating a popular office party snack to becoming the powerhouse behind a nationally admired gourmet brand, Fretzels. The episode promises a blend of personal storytelling, practical advice, and inspiring entrepreneurial insights that are bound to engage listeners from various walks of life.

Known for her innovative approach to marketing and her expertise in branding, Jill articulates the challenges and triumphs of starting and scaling a business, touching on key moments such as receiving overwhelming support and the serendipitous feature on Daily Candy that skyrocketed her sales. She provides a candid look into the evolution of a business, the strategies deployed to thrive in the competitive market, and the bittersweet but necessary decision to close the doors to her venture. As a bonus, listeners will gain an understanding of how personal experiences and professional expertise can pivot to seize new opportunities and guide others.

1. Jill Frechtman shares her story of transitioning from advertising to entrepreneurship, building the Fretzels brand from scratch.
2. Serendipitous opportunities, such as being featured in Daily Candy, can significantly boost a new business.
3. Transitioning a product from direct sales to retail requires a rethinking of packaging, branding, and distribution strategy.
4. The importance of excellent customer service and personal touches in building brand loyalty and standing out in the marketplace.
5. Closing a business can be a complex emotional journey, yet the experience gained is invaluable for future endeavors and mentoring others.

“I never invented chocolate-covered pretzels, but nobody was marketing it as a high-end gourmet gift item." "I just leaned into what I knew and what was available to me when I started." "Say yes and figure it out later." "Attention to detail is really important. It's the little things that are important." "People just want to be seen and heard and understood." "I certainly knew nothing about the food industry."

Jill Frechtman is an award-winning entrepreneur turned brand strategist and trusted startup advisor. Her journey from advertising to entrepreneurship embodies the spirit of resilience and reinvention.

Inspired by the acclaim her homemade chocolate pretzels received at an office holiday, Jill launched Fretzels by Jill in 2005 as an online gift business for just $300. Her creative ingenuity propelled Fretzels into a nationally recognized brand, featured on The Today Show and in The Wall Street Journal. Navigating the challenges of the 2008 recession, Jill pivoted to wholesale distribution and secured retail partnerships with Nordstrom, The Fresh Market, and various independent specialty food shops.

Beyond her entrepreneurial success, she played a pivotal role in expanding Chocolate Works, a second-generation chocolate company, into a national franchise. Her roles at organizations like TIGER 21 and Russell Reynolds Associates further honed her branding, marketing, and community engagement expertise.

Today, as a consultant and educator, Jill shares her insights with aspiring food entrepreneurs, teaching brands to stand out and set themselves up for success. She recently co-founded and launched The Aura Project, a community for women leaders navigating a period of personal reinvention due to a career transition.

In this inspiring episode of "Between Over and Next," hosts Holli and Robert sit down with the seasoned writer and journalist, David Noonan, to discuss the transformative journey of a writer across the decades. From the typewriter era to the digital age, David shares the evolution of his writing career and offers profound insights into the art of storytelling, the craft of writing, and the ever-changing landscape of the written word.

David unpicks some of the most memorable jobs he's had and how these experiences have shaped his approach to writing. He illuminates the complexity of translating medical and scientific information into accessible, engaging feature articles. Later, he delves into his short stint in screenwriting, describing how it honed his appreciation for visual storytelling. Then, David reminisces about his foray into songwriting - a new boundary in his creativity - and expounds on the exhilarating process of capturing stories within melodies.

1. Discovering and nurturing your talents early in life can lead to a fulfilling career - David knew he wanted to be a writer since 7th grade.
2. Diverse experiences across various jobs can enrich one's approach to storytelling - from the assembly of toys to screenwriting.
3. The transition from typewriter to digital platforms has opened up more avenues for writers to publish and share their work, lowering barriers to entry.
4. Songwriting presents a unique and mystical form of storytelling that combines personal memories, feelings, and the sensory experience of music.
5. Artificial intelligence is seen as both a potent tool for writers and a non-threat to the inherently human experience at the core of storytelling.

"One of the good things about getting older... there's more to write about." - refers to David's treasure trove of experiences to draw upon in his writing. "I learned more outside of these structured systems than I could ever learn in school." - this relates to the wealth of knowledge David has accumulated outside traditional education. "The secret of being a writer is that basically, you spend your life learning." - this emphasizes the continual learning process inherent in a writer's journey. "I just remember things that never happened." - David's unique approach to fiction writing, where he visualizes fictional events with as much detail as memories. "It's so purely creative... when I'm playing my guitar and I'm trying to write a song, I'm strumming away... it's happening to me more than writing novels and nonfiction stories." - this describes the organic and enveloping process of songwriting.

David Noonan is an accomplished writer with an extensive 50-year career in the writing industry. He has established himself as a seasoned journalist, feature writer, and author. Notably, David has contributed to prominent magazines with his works published in notable outlets such as the New York Times Magazine, Scientific American, Esquire, Sports Illustrated, Smithsonian, and Newsweek, where he was the Health and Medical Senior Editor for 10 years. He was also the National Affairs Editor at Readers Digest. He has explored various writing genres, including screenwriting, and his versatility encompasses a wealth of subjects from science and medicine to sports and fiction. David's ability to adapt his storytelling across various platforms showcases his lifelong commitment to the craft of writing.

David is the author of two books, the critically acclaimed novel Memoirs of a Caddy, and the non-fiction Neuro. His Kindle Single, Attempted Hippie, was named one of the Top Ten e-singles of 2013 by Thin Reads. David is currently working as a freelance writer and communications consultant, specializing in science, medicine, and healthcare.

38 Jobs A Life’s Work by David Noonan Fun Facts: Besides pumping gas, burying people, and caddying, he has worked as a plumber's helper, a dishwasher, a cab driver, a diamond weigher, and a roustabout. GIA stands for Gemological Institute of America, where David worked part-time in the 70s running the diamond scale at their main lab on 47th Street in NYC, the diamond district. He got the job by answering an ad in the NY Times. Green Tent was a company based in Wharton where David and his brothers worked college summers putting up tents for county fairs, weddings, horse shows, etc in NJ, LI, and sometimes New England.

ARTICLES Newsweek Boomer Humor: The Way We Laughed Published (Feb 18, 2007) Sports IllustratedLou Gehrig  Losing Athlete’s Hearts Scientific American 

EsquireInside the Brain American Weed...It Satisfies

NYT Magazine Profile of Larry David 

In this emotionally charged episode of 'Between Over And Next,' join Holli and Robert on a profound exploration of the significance of leaving a lasting legacy through the power of storytelling. With Holli's energetic engagement and Robert's extensive background as a documentarian, the episode encourages listeners to document their narratives, spotlighting the indelible impact such records can have on both the present and future generations.

The episode delves into the essence of legacy and the various forms it can take, from recorded memories to imparted wisdom. Holli and Robert draw from their journey, touching upon their familial history and the professional experiences that have bolstered their belief in preserving personal stories. With persuasive narratives and practical advice, the duo accentuates the impact of legacy videos, the advances in documenting technology, and the ways to overcome the common apprehension associated with starting such a venture.

• Legacy involves preserving impactful events and the essence of a person's life for future generations.
• Documenting one's personal story, values, and life lessons on video is a compelling medium to leave a lasting impact.
• The episode underscores the therapeutic benefits of creating legacy videos for both the storyteller and descendants.
• Robert shares heart-warming insights and practical advice derived from his time at 'Thru My Eyes', where he created video biographies for terminally ill individuals.
• Holli and Robert provide an exclusive free guide with biography questions and best practices to help listeners start documenting their legacy.

1. "We passionately advocate for the documentation of life stories."
2. "Your story serves as a reminder of how far you've come."
3. "Imagine the chance to watch your grandparents' wedding video."
4. "Everyone has the capability to document their family history."
5. "100% of the time...we always ended with the person feeling grateful."

Episode 4 'Between Over & Next': Celebrating Achievements Of The Parent-Child Journey

Thru My Eyes Featured on CNN

In Episode 2 'Between Over & Next': A Conversation On Entrepreneurship, Robert shares his experience working with the organization “Thru My Eyes” and the importance of documenting one’s story Thomas Edison National Historical Park in West Orange, NJ Yogi Berra Museum 

In this insightful episode of "Between Over and Next," hosts Holli and Robert dive into the theme of navigating life transitions and their impact on relationships. As they engage in candid conversation, they open a window into how different stages of life, such as anniversaries, career changes, and retirement, can either strengthen bonds or present challenges in our connections.

The episode highlights the importance of communication and intentional connection as the foundational pillars of any relationship. Holli and Robert provide tangible advice on fostering resilience and growth within partnerships, whether facing the excitement of new beginnings or the adjustments of later life stages. With a focus on embracing change, they underscore the potential for relationship milestones to become enriching chapters in a shared story of love and life.

• Life transitions are pivotal in shaping relationships and may reinforce bonds or cause tension.
• Effective communication and active listening are vital in adapting to changes within relationships.
• Establishing new traditions and expressing appreciation are key to keeping the connection alive.
• Changes in intimacy and romance can be navigated by redefining their meanings and staying close through life's ups and downs.
• Viewing changes as opportunities for growth, and committing to growing together instead of apart, can transform transitions into enriching relational experiences.

"Communication matters. And the other thing that matters in evolving relationships is prioritizing connection and quality time." "Intimacy and romance are a really important part of a couple's life. And it's very often, I think, ignored or not talked about enough." "It's about communication and sharing feelings and thoughts. And those can be a mixed bag." "So ultimately, it's the commitment to grow together rather than apart. And that transforms these transitions into enriching chapters of a shared story."

In this episode of “Between Over and Next,” hosts Holli and Robert interview Howard Waldstreicher, fondly referred to as Howie, whose remarkable career transition unfolds a narrative of relentless pursuit and adaptation. After a notable stint as a software engineer and a successful career as an entrepreneur, Howard shifted gears and landed a job after a 20-year hiatus from the information technology world eventually becoming the oldest intern at Facebook, which led him to author his book, “Facebook’s Oldest Intern.” He rekindled his programming skills to re-enter the workforce amidst challenging dynamics, personifying the drive to thrive against all odds.

Howard shares his inspiring journey of reinvention and discusses the obstacles he overcame, the lessons he learned, updating a 20-year-old resume, and adapting to radically different corporate cultures, poignantly described through his interview experiences and eventual success landing a role in the titan of social media—Facebook/Meta. Through determination and an unyielding spirit, Howie demonstrates that possibilities are boundless, irrespective of age. Howard’s story is a powerful reminder that it’s never too late to pursue your dreams and embrace new opportunities. To learn more about his transformational story, be sure to listen to the full episode.

00:00 Introduction to the podcast and guest, Howard Waldstreicher 04:25 Howard’s motivation for writing the book and inspiring others 05:26 Overcoming obstacles in switching careers and reentering the workforce 08:11 Howard’s strategy for interviewing and comparing the experience to 30 years ago 09:03 Howard’s successful job offer and the excitement of working at Facebook 10:25 The unique cohort experience and diversity at Facebook 10:52 Adjusting to the culture and differences between Facebook and previous workplaces 11:51 Comparing the strict culture at EDS to the relaxed culture at Facebook 11:55 Howard talks about the differences between working at Facebook and other companies 12:15 Robert discusses the challenges of corporate bureaucracy 12:50 Howard mentions the oddities of office interaction at Facebook 13:55 Howard takes control of a meeting and highlights communication challenges 14:46 Howard discusses the difficulties of communicating through text messages 15:17 Howard shares his biggest lesson from working at Facebook 16:30 Howard reflects on how his entrepreneurial background helped him succeed 16:52 Robert asks if the 30-year-old Howard could have gotten the job 17:30 Howard explains how being older and wiser worked to his advantage 18:03 Howard shares what inspires him 18:17 Howard discusses his plans for the future 19:24 Holli acknowledges the impact Howard made at Facebook 20:09 Howard advises listeners not to act or look old 20:34 Robert discusses the impact of age discrimination in job interviews 22:00 Holli emphasizes the importance of adapting to corporate culture 22:50 Holli encourages listeners to embrace new opportunities 23:24 Robert highlights the power of networking 23:46 Holli concludes by emphasizing the importance of pursuing dreams at any age 23:24 Robert emphasizes the power of connections and networks 24:10 Holli highlights the importance of asking for what you want 25:42 Robert explains the challenges of relating to different generations 26:13 Holli praises Howie for self-publishing a book 26:31 Robert discusses the accessibility of self-publishing in the digital age 28:06 Contact information and request for feedback 28:33 Conclusion and closing remarks

1. Embracing change and taking risks are key to navigating career transitions, regardless of age.
2. Networking and leveraging connections remain crucial, though they may not always yield immediate results.
3. The ability to adapt to new working environments and reimagine your skillset is pivotal in today’s job market.
4. Howard’s experience underscores the importance of opening up to learning and continuous growth.
5. Age should not define or limit potential; it can indeed align with new opportunities and successes.

“It’s not easy, but you can do it. And I was proof that you can do it.” – Howard on reinventing oneself. “I felt I could motivate people and inspire… It just becomes harder as you get older, can you do it? Do you believe you can? And I did it.” – Howard when asked about why he wrote his book. “What they don’t have, and what I brought to the table, was the life experience.” – Howard on what set him apart in the workforce.

In this uplifting episode of "Between Over and Next," hosts Holli and Robert welcome Andy Levine to discuss the transformative power of life's second acts. The conversation delves into the art of pivoting one’s life path to align with personal happiness and fulfillment, a compelling topic that resonates with many individuals seeking change in today's fast-paced world.

In their engaging discussion, Andy shares profound insights from his podcast "Second Act Stories," revealing common threads from interviews with people who have boldly modified their career paths and lives for greater satisfaction. Through stories of trauma triggering drastic change, the importance of planning versus leaping into new ventures, and the ultimate pursuit of purpose over profit, this episode is rich with themes of resilience and self-discovery. You will learn more about his TEDx Talk titled "The Art of a Second Act," and be inspired by extraordinary life stories, encouraging individuals to seek and realize their full potential. Andy's narrative of adopting his wife’s cousin’s ten-year-old daughter exemplifies embracing change at any stage of life, motivating listeners to consider their own "next." Andy offers a wealth of experience and knowledge in pursuing a happier life at every age and stage.

00:00 Introduction to the podcast and the guest, Andy Levine 02:00 Andy shares his personal story and his various pursuits in his second act 08:34 Andy discusses the statistic of the "quiet quitters" and the lack of purpose in work life 10:43 Andy shares the five key lessons that emerged from his podcast interviews 11:18 Lesson 1: Trauma often triggers the desire for change 12:39 Andy shares Dr. Peter Rork’s traumatic experience and the subsequent change in life direction with animal rescue 14:44 Andy talks about people going back to something they loved in their childhood 15:53 Andy shares the story of Joe Bach, who became a gym teacher for kids who struggle with sports 16:51 Andy discusses the difference between planners and leapers in pursuing a second act 17:15 Robert asks if there is an age demographic for leapers 18:08 Andy shares the story of Leah Gorham, who quit nursing to become a truck driver 19:18 Andy talks about Chris Donovan, who pursued his dream of designing women's shoes 22:04 Andy emphasizes that money is no substitute for purpose in a second act 23:53 Having a financial net makes it easier to make a pivot. 24:04 Lesson 1: If you're unhappy, make a change 24:53 Lesson 2: Change is not easy, expect barriers 25:51 Lesson 3: Money is no substitute for purpose 26:28 Leaping or planning depends on risk tolerance and belief in oneself 27:27 Lesson 4: Trying new things can lead to discovery 28:11 Lesson 5: Prioritize happiness and well-being with purpose 31:01 Conclusion: Happiness is a continuous journey

1. Traumatic events often serve as catalysts for individuals to reassess their lives and embark on new journeys. 2. Childhood interests and passions can be significant indicators for one's second act and provide a fulfilling direction for career changes. 3. The transition to a second act is characterized by individuals either meticulously planning their next steps or making the bold decision to leap into change without a clear plan. 4. One should anticipate and embrace challenges when pursuing a change, as no second-act transition is a straightforward path. 5. Pursuing a purpose-driven life typically results in greater happiness, even if it means earning less income than before.

"If you're unhappy and you know it, make a change." "The walls of fear are paper-thin—they're easy to break through, but they keep people locked in." "Money without purpose is a tough way to live, and money doesn't buy happiness." "Leap and the net will appear." "Money is no substitute for purpose."

Andy Levine is the creator and cohost of the “Second Act Stories” podcast. A fascination with storytelling and second acts triggered the launch of this podcast in 2018. He is always on the lookout for a good story. Andy and his podcast cohost Scott Merritt have traveled to more than 30 states to conduct face-to-face interviews with guests. To date, they have interviewed nearly 150 courageous individuals pursuing a better life in a second act. Five key lessons have emerged from this experience and are shared in his TEDx Talk, “The Art of the Second Act” (released in January 2024).

Second Act Stories Podcast is a podcast sharing stories of people who have made major career changes to pursue more rewarding lives in a second act. The stories are in their own words and the words of friends and family that helped them find a new path.

Second Act Stories Website Meet the Podcast Hosts Andy & Steve Andy’s TEDx Talk: The Art of the Second Act | Andrew Levine | TEDxGrandJunction

Dr. Peter Rorke: Animal Rescue Is Dr. Peter Rork’s Second Act Joe Bock: Getting Benchwarmers in the Game: Retired Engineer Keeps a Promise Leah Gorman: Why Leah Gorham Scrubbed Out of Nursing to Drive a Truck Chris Donovan: Telephone Repairman Follows His Dream: Designing Women’s Shoes (European Shoe Designer: Aki Choklat) Steve Paz: A Cop Leaves The Force for Corporate America Amy Yontef-McGrath: A Midlife Shake-up: Stay-At-Home Mom Pursues A Year Of Public Service (Follow Me To 50 Website)

BONUS: SECOND ACT STORIES 100th EPISODE: Second Act Masterclass: 6 Key Takeaways From 100 Episodes

In this episode of "Between Over and Next," hosts Holli and Robert interview Salvatore(Sal) A. Simeone, a leading matrimonial lawyer, about the process of divorce. Sal shares his journey and multiple pivots that led him to his career in family law. Deep-diving into the conversation, Sal imparts wisdom on several fronts. He emphasizes the importance of finding the right attorney who will be a good fit and provide guidance throughout the divorce process. Sal also offers advice for those considering divorce, highlighting the need for communication, resilience, and the understanding that life can thrive after divorce.

Sal's narrative serves as a cornerstone of the conversation, detailing his progression from a former athlete and postal worker to a respected family law attorney. His approach balances the intricacies of the legal divorce process with the human element, underscoring the importance of compassion and client-attorney synergy. The episode presents divorce not only as an end but also as a potential starting point for individuals to rediscover happiness and fulfillment. These insights are foundational for anyone contemplating or enduring the divorce process.

00:00 Introduction to the podcast and the topic of divorce 03:17 Sal Simeone’s pivots leading up to his career 07:32 The pivotal moment when Sal made a connection with a mentor 09:26 Why Sal chose divorce law as his specialization 10:50 Sal's personal experience with divorce 11:38 Life after divorce and the next phase of Sal's life 12:07 Sal shares his experience of life after divorce and finding love again 13:04 Sal emphasizes the importance of choosing the right attorney for divorce cases 14:36 Sal advises meeting the attorney in person and ensuring their full attention during the consultation 15:16 Sal suggests looking for certified matrimonial attorneys with legal acumen and good people skills 18:04 Sal discusses the differences in divorce challenges between younger and older couples 19:31 Sal explains how he tailors his approach based on the life stage of the couple 22:30 Sal advises getting the best attorney that fits the individual's personality and needs 23:10 Picking the right attorney and understanding the divorce process 23:38 Importance of being an involved client and finding a partnership with your attorney 24:18 The impact of divorce on children and extended families 24:38 Not involving children in custody cases and being a shield for clients 25:32 The approach of fairness and reasonableness in divorce cases 26:12 Transitioning from aggressive to assertive approach in divorce cases 27:20 Helping individuals understand that life is not over after divorce 28:20 Emphasizing the importance of communication, connection, and optimism 29:23 Resiliency of individuals and the impact of divorce on children 31:15 The shift towards shared custody and the best interest of the children 31:47 The importance of minimizing damage and helping clients move forward 32:22 Challenges of second marriages and the need for compatibility 33:15 Final thoughts on divorce and finding the right attorney 35:18 Recognizing moments and opportunities in life 35:58 The next step should be a step up, not a step-down 36:37 Importance of communication and family thriving 37:31 Links to resources in show notes for finding an attorney 37:45 Sharing the podcast with friends and family 38:06 Relevant links in show notes 38:23 Closing remarks and gratitude for listening

1. Choosing a divorce attorney should not only be about legal expertise but also about finding a personal fit and establishing a strong client-attorney partnership.
2. Younger generations are quicker to exit unsatisfactory marriages, while older couples tend to deliberate more due to longstanding investments in their relationships.
3. Life after divorce should be approached with an optimistic outlook, recognizing the potential for personal rebirth and happiness in future relationships.
4. The best interest of the family, especially children, should be the central focus during divorce proceedings, advocating for fair outcomes and mindful transitions.
5. Open, clear communication is essential throughout the divorce process to ensure expectations are realistic and clients are well-informed.

Sal Simeone is a seasoned matrimonial lawyer based in Northern New Jersey. With a personal journey marked by a series of significant life pivots, Sal has emerged as a leading figure in family law. His professional trajectory includes returning to higher education later in life and transitioning from a mailman to a successful attorney. Sal's expertise is particularly notable in the domain of divorce, where he blends legal acumen with a deeply empathetic approach, guiding his clients through one of life's most challenging pivots.

He is a partner at Weinberger Divorce & Family Law Group, LLC. Throughout his distinguished career, Sal has dedicated his practice to assisting clients in all their divorce and family matters, with a special focus on high-conflict divorce cases, custody battles, custodial parent relocation, domestic violence, alimony, child support, and contested asset and complex business valuations, as well as the various facets of equitable distribution. He also handles adoptions, and cases involving the Division of Child Protection and Permanency, and is often appointed as a Guardian Ad Litem and Parenting Coordinator by the New Jersey Courts.

Outside the courtroom, Sal has volunteered his time to the Morris County Battered Women Legal Advocacy Program, where he consulted with victims of domestic abuse on a pro bono basis. He has also volunteered his time to present educational programs on behalf of the Women’s Center at the County College of Morris, Randolph, New Jersey.

In this episode of "Between Over & Next," hosts Holli and Robert welcome Arell Rivers, a former attorney turned contemporary romance novelist, whose journey from the legal world to the creative space of writing defines the explorative essence of career pivoting. Arell shares what triggered her series of professional transitions and what it means to define success on one's own terms. The discussion delves into the intricacies and misconceptions of being a romance author and the role of marketing in self-publishing. 

Arell Rivers' path from a structured career in law to the free-flowing narrative of romance novels captures the adventurous spirit of embracing life's uncertainties. Reflecting upon her trials and triumphs, she reveals how marketing has played a significant role in her entrepreneurial endeavors. The conversation also highlights the psychological depth that goes into character development within her novels, debunking myths surrounding the romance genre.

00:00 Introduction to the podcast and voiceover G. Keith Alexander 03:06 Arell's pivot from being an attorney to a wedding and event planner 06:36 Transitioning into the tutoring and college counseling business 08:58 Arell's journey as a romance novelist 10:39 Arell's extensive collection of books and fan interactions 11:24 Possibility of Arell's books becoming movies 11:54 Robert asks if Arell is fulfilled being a romance novelist 12:02 Arell talks about the psychology behind crafting characters in romance novels 12:38 Arell dispels the stereotype that romance novels write themselves 13:20 Arrell discusses the character development in her novels 14:28 Robert asks Arell what advice she would give her 20-year-old self 14:41 Arell advises not to let others define success and to do what you love 15:05 Arell wishes she had known earlier about the importance of marketing 15:37 Arell talks about the challenges of creating audiobook versions of her novels 18:09 Robert highlights the importance of marketing and connecting with the target audience 18:40 Arell emphasizes the importance of following dreams 19:19 Holli and Robert discuss their career journeys 22:10 Holli mentions how Arell embraced podcasting and its impact on their business 23:21 Robert and Holli express their gratitude for the audience's support and reviews 23:42 Holli expresses happiness for the audience being with them 24:02 Robert mentions relevant links in the show notes and encourages feedback 24:11 Holli signs off and thanks the audience

1. Embracing career changes can lead to discovering one's passion, as shown by Arell Rivers' transition from law to romance novel writing.
2. Success should not be defined by others or by financial metrics alone—pursuing what you love can bring fulfillment and eventually lead to financial reward.
3. Marketing is a critical component in entrepreneurship, especially in the self-publishing industry, and learning its dynamics is key to success.
4. The romance genre offers significant depth and complexity in character development, contesting the stereotype that romance novels have formulaic plots.
5. The power of community in platforms like social media, specifically Facebook groups, is essential for engagement and forming relationships with the audience.

"Don't let others define success for you. Don't define success by a dollar figure. Do what you love and the money will follow." "You have to learn how to navigate both employee and entrepreneur roles. Whichever one you're in, you have to learn how to make the most of it." "The way the characters are and how another character comes and makes one a fuller human being." – Arrell Rivers discussing character development in romance novels "It's a lot more difficult than people realize because you hear a lot of, 'Oh, romance writers, right? The novel writes itself because it's the same every time.' And that's so not true."

Before embracing her passion for writing romance, she practiced law at prominent New York and New Jersey firms. Following her stint in law, Arrell became an event and wedding planner, drawing inspiration from planning her own wedding. She further ventured into the world of marketing, specifically in the tutoring and college counseling industry, alongside her husband. Her robust pivot culminated in her current role as an independently published author, having written a trilogy and contributed to anthologies, with a total of over 15 romance novels to her name. Arell is a member of the New Jersey chapter of Romance Writers of America.

Follow Arell Rivers Arell Rivers Website Arell Rivers Romance Novels on Amazon and Kindle Unlimited Arell Rivers Facebook Group Arell’s Angels Arell Rivers Instagram Arell Rivers Twitter

G. Keith Alexander: New York Radio Legend, Founder HarlemAmerica, Between Over & Next Voiceover Artist G. Keith Alexander is an actor, voiceover artist, and accomplished radio disc jockey. He’s been in movies, on TV, and your radio since the 1970s. Follow G. Keith Alexander G. Keith Alexander Website G. Keith Alexander Instagram G. Keith Alexander Facebook

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