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What does it take to be a great leader? On this episode of Beyond ArtLess, Tobin Stewart, Symphony Orchestra Director and Assistant Professor of Music at Montana State University, joins us to talk about leadership, musicianship, and lifelong learning. Drawing from his book Leading as a Conductor, Tobin shares insights on building ensemble culture, developing student leaders, finding your own leadership style, and knowing when to lead, delegate, or simply get out of the way. We also explore the connections between music and athletics, the value of singing in instrumental ensembles, and how a mountain biking accident changed the way he conducts. Then it’s off to Montana for a speed round featuring cold smoke, skijoring, and a few questionable attempts at humor. Commuters, there’s plenty to learn—and a few reasons to shake your head—along the way!

Learn More About Tobin:
https://www.montana.edu/music/directory/1524642/tobin-stewart
https://www.tobinstewart.com/
https://giamusic.com/artists/tobin-stewart
https://www.nmeanebraska.org/2026-all-state-orchestra

REGISTER NOW:
2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few spots remain!!
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

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Step right up!  Test your knowledge about farming in LaCrosse, Wisconsin!  Whoever can answer all the questions will immediately be sent all remaining Beyond Artless Season 1 overstock t-shirts.  Shipping not included.  Our guest Angela Klinkner is an authority on dairy farming, but is also a superstar sixth year teacher in Holmen, WI.  Her years of middle school band teaching in Houston, Texas helped her develop a strong approach to teaching fundamentals to young musicians.  She might win the award for most organized teacher ever.  Peter, Phil and Chris win the collective award for aimless banter.  

Holmen High School Band Uniform Fundraiser 

Holmen High School Band Website

Uniform Fundraiser Article

SHOW CREDITS
Servant of Peace (Dorothy Gates) performed by Teddy Van Winkle - recorded on March 7th, 2022, in the University of North Texas Voertman Concert Hall. Accompanied by Dr. Joshua Vigran, piano. https://youtu.be/tcUfcwZ31Qw?si=Rntj8gVsFe9_4p6A

REGISTER NOW:
2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few spots remain!!
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

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What happens when deep commitment to music education, trailblazing pedagogy, and the pursuit of artistry come together in one remarkable career? You get Randy Swiggum, nationally recognized conductor, clinician, author, and leader in Comprehensive Musicianship through Performance (CMP). From Carnegie Hall to the Madison Metropolitan School District, where he currently serves as an Arts Teacher Leader, Randy has spent his career inspiring young musicians and challenging educators to rethink what great teaching can be. This week, we dig into relationships, emotional intelligence, music advocacy, and the neuroscience of music. We also explore 50 years of CMP as well as the upcoming State Music Conference featuring Dr. Anita Collins, Dr. Cecil Adderley, and Dr. Tim Lautzenheiser. Randy brings plenty of wisdom, perspective, and a reminder that three hosts still have a LOT to learn.

Learn More About Randy Here

• https://www.foxvalleyartshalloffame.org/inductees/swiggum
• https://www.carnegiehall.org/Education/Programs/Music-Educators-Workshop/Summer-Program

Wisconsin State Music Conference Register Below!

• https://wmeamusic.org/conference-main-preview/conference/

Comprehensive Musicianship through Performance (CMP)

https://wmeamusic.org/cmp/

Anita Collins Links

• https://youtu.be/R0JKCYZ8hng?si=_YtkAUPbh8iwXqX4
• https://www.ted.com/talks/anita_collins_the_benefits_of_music_education
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EMOhcsoLy0
• https://www.anitacollinsmusic.com.au/

Recording Credits

• https://youtu.be/eYV1sxt-QAs?si=gaNlhzPW3iba1PqK

Hey Coach- This Is A Show Note

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/podcast

REGISTER NOW:

2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few spots remain!!
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

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Commuter, this week we’re talking about music education, change, and the seemingly radical idea that every kid deserves to see themselves in the music classroom. David Davis has gone from traditional music educator to change agent, working to make music education more inclusive, relevant, and equitable for all students. We talk about what needs to change, why literacy matters, and what happens when we stop treating the way we’ve always done things as the way we always have to do things. Peter, Chris and Phil also do their part to prove that systemic change is much easier to discuss than successfully executing a podcast.

Learn More about David:

https://educationminnesota.org/news/awards-and-honors/teacher-of-the-year/

https://nafme.org/member-profile/david-davis-2/

https://www.fox9.com/news/st-louis-park-music-teacher-named-minnesota-teacher-year

Resources Mentioned:

A Sound Approach to Teaching Instrumentalists: An Application of Content and Learning Sequences

Nurtured by Love: The Classic Approach to Talent Education by Shinichi Suzuki and Waltraud Suzuki | Jun 1, 1993

Teaching Rhythm: New Strategies and Techniques for Success by David Newell (Author)

Jump Right In: The Music Curriculum, Reference Handbook for Using Learning Sequence Activities by Edwin E. Gordon 

REGISTER NOW:

2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few spots remain!!
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

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Finally, we have a guest that brings some no nonsense Boston sensibility to our upper Midwest goofball hosts.  Lisa Linde is long time music teaching wizard at Newton South High School in Massachusetts.  Her ensembles have won numerous awards and jazz ensemble has performed several times at Essentially Ellington.  She is also founder of jazzhers - a non profit founded to address the persistent gender disparity in jazz education and performance.

Our hosts struggle through meaningless banter, aimless questions and a speed round that seems anything but speedy.  Thankfully, there’s only about 30 more episodes this season left.  Send any complaints directly to the coach - Tim Gleason.

Learn More Here:

• https://www.jazzhers.com/home
• https://nafme.org/member-profile/lisa-linde/
• https://downbeat.com/news/detail/lisa-linde-downbeat-honor-for-achievement-in-jazz-education
• https://www.midwestclinic.org/jazzprecon.html

REGISTER NOW:

2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few spots remain!!
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

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Send us Fan Mail

The Band Whisperer: John Greene

What do you get when you combine 37 years of teaching, thousands of rehearsals, a lifetime of listening, and a healthy appreciation for classic rock? You get John Greene—and one heck of a conversation.

This week on Beyond Artless, we sit down with retired music educator, clinician, adjudicator, arranger, guitarist, and all-around rehearsal junkie John Greene. John shares stories from a career that spans Wisconsin and Minnesota, from his unexpected transition from PE major to music education student (including a memorable two-and-a-half-hour Schoenberg violin recital) to his years working with middle school musicians, jazz ensembles, marching programs, and teachers across the country.

We talk about why high expectations and middle school musicians absolutely can coexist, the power of relationships and trust, why “be more expressive” might be one of the least helpful comments we can give a young musician, and how something as simple as a pencil and a “drill box” can transform a rehearsal.

John also shares what he has learned from a lifetime of mentors, why music teachers need to spend more time choosing music their students can actually be successful with, how to build meaningful relationships with administrators, and why music educators across disciplines need to stop looking at each other as competition and start recognizing that we all need each other.

And because this is Beyond Artless, we eventually abandon all of that wisdom for a rapid-fire trip through 1970s rock: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Terry Kath, Frampton Comes Alive, Fleetwood Mac, Shostakovich, Ives, and the proper use of a popsicle stick in an eight-track player.

It's a conversation full of great stories, practical rehearsal wisdom, and the kind of perspective that makes you want to get back into the band room and try something new on Monday.

Plus: Chris has rocks. You'll have to listen to understand.

Credits:
Arnold Schoenberg
Pierrot Lunaire
1. Moondrunk
Curtis Institute of Music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8OMOhmfP9I

REGISTER NOW:
2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few spots remain!!
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

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Send us Fan Mail

This week on Beyond Artless, we accidentally made an episode that is actually useful.

We’re talking copyright, music publishing, digital music, arrangements, AI, and a bunch of other things that music educators probably should know more about—but often don’t have time to figure out.

Our guest is Andrea Pelloquin, Executive Director of the Choristers Guild and an attorney specializing in copyright and trademark law. She brings a ton of experience from both the music industry and the legal world, and she helps us make sense of some of the copyright questions that come up in music education every day.

We also talk about public domain music, photocopying, e-print, AI, career changes, and why you might want to think twice before assuming that something you found online is fair game.

And because this is Beyond Artless, we somehow manage to work in bees, spelling bees, porch geese, and a few other things that have absolutely nothing to do with copyright.

Come for the useful information. Stay for the nonsense.

Helpful Links Regarding Copyright

• https://www.tresonamusic.com/
• https://www.bmi.com/
• https://www.arrangeme.com/
• https://www.easysong.com/
• https://schoolmusiclicense.com/
• https://www.choristersguild.org/index.html
• https://nafme.org/resource/united-states-copyright-law-a-guide-for-music-educators/
• https://www.mpa.org/

OPPORTUNITIES:

2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few spots remain!!

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2027 W/ ADRIAN SIMS (Closes Sept 15)

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

FREE MUSIC (Ends Sept 15)

MAX JOY - ERIKA SVANOE

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/

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Ever wonder what a true visionary in arts administration leads like?  Enter our guest Tony Thomann - executive director of the Minnesota Youth Symphonies.  Truly dedicated to the cause of young orchestral musicians in every way, Tony is the ultimate team builder and steady hand on a tiller.

Ever wonder what meaningless banter, fruitless band boozlers and wandering questions sound like?  Enter Phil, Peter and Chris.  Mustering every ounce of experience gained over the last four seasons, our hosts derail and blame each other at every turn.  Commuter, we appreciate your support and occasional critique, even if we can’t really seem to respond adequately.  It’s mostly Peter’s fault.

Learn More About Tony and the Minnesota Youth Symphonies Here: https://www.mnyouthsymphonies.org/

REGISTER NOW:

2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few spots remain!!

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2027 W/ ADRIAN SIMS (closes Sept 15)

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

FREE MUSIC (ends Sept 15)

MAX JOY - ERIKA SVANOE

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/

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What do you get when you put Chris, Phil, Peter, and Dr. Jennifer Hawkinson in the same room? A conversation full of laughter, honest stories, teaching wisdom, and at least a few moments where you'll find yourself thinking, "Yep... that's exactly what it's like to be a music teacher."

In this episode of Beyond Artless, we're joined by Dr. Jennifer Hawkinson, Associate Professor of Music Education and Director of the Symphonic Band at Concordia College. Jennifer has spent her career shaping musicians and mentoring future educators, but what makes this conversation so special isn't just her résumé—it's her ability to blend excellence with humility, high expectations with genuine kindness, and just enough humor to remind us that no rehearsal is ever completely under control.

From her years teaching in South Dakota public schools to preparing tomorrow's band directors at Concordia, Jennifer shares stories that are equal parts inspiring and wonderfully relatable. She reminds us that the best teachers don't have all the answers—they simply keep showing up, keep learning, and occasionally laugh at the chaos along the way.

What you'll hear in this episode:

• How Jennifer's journey led her from the school band room to the college classroom
• The mentors who shaped her—and why every great teacher stands on someone else's shoulders
• What future music educators really need to know before their first day on the podium
• Building rehearsal environments where students feel challenged, valued, and empowered
• Why relationships will always outlast repertoire
• The little moments that remind us why we chose this profession in the first place

Of course, it wouldn't be Beyond Artless without a healthy dose of laughter. Chris, Phil, and Peter swap stories with Jennifer about the wonderfully unpredictable life of music educators—those rehearsals that somehow survive flattened trumpets, questionable rhythms, and the occasional "creative interpretation" of the conductor's instructions.

Whether you're a veteran teacher, a future music educator, or someone who simply appreciates the people who make school music programs come alive, this episode feels like sitting around the table with friends who just happen to care deeply about making music—and making people better through it.

Jennifer's passion is contagious, her perspective is refreshing, and her heart for students shines through every story she tells.

Join us for a conversation filled with wisdom, warmth, a few laughs, and a reminder that while music may not solve every problem, it certainly makes the journey a whole lot better. That's what happens Beyond Artless.

SHOW CREDITS:
WALTON Coronation March, “Crown Imperial” - "The President's Own" United States Marine Band
Performed on April 2, 2023, at Northern Virginia Community College's Rachel M. Schlesinger Concert Hall and Arts Center in Alexandria, Va., as part of a concert titled "Sacred Hymns, Songs, and Sounds."

William Walton's Coronation March, “Crown Imperial”
transcribed by William Duthoit
Conducted by First Lieutenant Darren Lin
Program and notes: https://www.marineband.marines.mil/Po...

REGISTER NOW:
2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few spots remain!!
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2027 W/ ADRIAN SIMS
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

FREE MUSIC until September 15
MAX JOY - ERIKA SVANOE
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/

THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS
Grand Tours
Concordia College
Heid Music

Interested in sponsoring with us? Learn more here!

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Welcome Back, Commuters!

Welcome back to Season 5 of Beyond ArtLess! After four seasons, more than 35,000 downloads, and an impressive lack of professional growth on the part of your hosts, we're thrilled to have you along for another ride.

This season, The Empire Strikes a Budget, we're once again talking with fascinating people about music, education, creativity, and whatever else manages to derail the conversation. Expect surprise guests, questionable questions, Band Buzzlers, Band Boozlers, and the occasional moment of actual insight.

Thanks for listening, laughing, and continuing to commute with us. We’re glad you’re back.

Same podcast. Same idiots. New season.

REGISTER NOW:

2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few Jazz spots remain!!

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2027 W/ ADRIAN SIMS

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

FREE MUSIC: 

MAX JOY - ERIKA SVANOE

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/

Support the show