In this remarkable conversation, Michael Levin (Tufts University) and Blaise Agüera y Arcas (Google) examine what happens when biology and computation collide at their foundations. Their recent papers—arriving simultaneously yet from distinct intellectual traditions—illuminate how simple rules generate complex behaviors that challenge our understanding of life, intelligence, and agency.

Michael’s "Self-Sorting Algorithm" reveals how minimal computational models demonstrate unexpected problem-solving abilities resembling basal intelligence—where just six lines of deterministic code exhibit dynamic adaptability we typically associate with living systems. Meanwhile, Blaise's "Computational Life" investigates how self-replicating programs emerge spontaneously from random interactions in digital environments, evolving complexity without explicit design or guidance.

Their parallel explorations suggest a common thread: information processing underlies both biological and computational systems, forming an endless cycle where information → computation → agency → intelligence → information. This cyclical relationship transcends the traditional boundaries between natural and artificial systems.

The conversation unfolds around several interwoven questions:

- How does genuine agency emerge from simple rule-following components?

- Why might intelligence be more fundamental than life itself?

- How do we recognize cognition in systems that operate unlike human intelligence?

- What constitutes the difference between patterns and the physical substrates expressing them?

- How might symbiosis between humans and synthetic intelligence reshape both?

Perhaps most striking is their shared insight that we may already be surrounded by forms of intelligence we're fundamentally blind to—our inherent biases limiting our ability to recognize cognition that doesn't mirror our own. As Michael notes, "We have a lot of mind blindness based on our evolutionary firmware."

The timing of their complementary work isn't mere coincidence but reflects a cultural inflection point where our understanding of intelligence is expanding beyond anthropocentric models. Their dialogue offers a conceptual framework for navigating a future where the boundaries between biological and synthetic intelligence continue to dissolve, not as opposing forces but as variations on a universal principle of information processing across different substrates.

For anyone interested in the philosophical and practical implications of emergent intelligence—whether in cells, code, or consciousness—this conversation provides intellectual tools for understanding the transformed relationship between humans and technology that lies ahead.

Links:

• Our article on these two papers⁠
• Michael Levin’s Self-Sorting Algorithm
• Blaise Agüera y Arcas’s Computational Life

------

Do you enjoy our conversations like this one? Then subscribe on your favorite platform, subscribe to our emails (free) at Artificiality.world, and check out the Artificiality Summit—our mind-expanding retreat in Bend, Oregon at Artificiality.world/summit.

Thanks again to Jonathan Coulton for our music.