Boomer Banter, Caregiving, Purpose, Connection

The year was 1970. The prior year my family had visited Washington and I saw all these young people working on the floor of the Senate. They were Senate pages, and that looked like something I really wanted to do. For some reason, I did not notice that they were all boys.  

In 1970, when I was 16, I wrote to my Senator about being his page. I was told that girls were not allowed to be pages. That started my journey to get the opportunity. Listen as I retell the story and how it evolved with the help of my father. 

Because it was the time of the women's movement, it became a national story. At 16, I had no frame of reference as to how to handle all the attention.

It is a story of triumph and courage and reslilience and overcoming obstacles. I hope you find it meaningful

Episode Takeaways:

1. Don't get stuck in negative messaging

2. Tell yourself your are relevant, you are meaningful, you can and do make a diffrence.

3. Find your voice.

4. Define how you want to be.

Thanks so much for listening.

Subscribe on Apple Podcast, Stitcher , Google Podcast. or Spotify

Follow up on Facebook and Instagram

You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected]

– Wendy Green is a Certified Life Coach, working with people going through the sometimes uncomfortable life transition from full-time work to “what’s next.” To schedule a complimentary 20-minute consultation go to https://calendly.com/heyboomer/20min 

– You can email me at [email protected]

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Omkari Williams went from a career as an actor to political campaigns and fundraising to activism. She walks us through this transition and what was the turning point that guided her into activism.

Her work with her clients and in her training is to help people find sustainable ways to contribute to society and make a difference. We all matter and we all have a role to play.

She encourages people to do what they do in small increments and to do it consistently ... to take responsibility to make the contributions that only you can make.

We talked about intergenerational work and empowering older adults to share wisdom. We talked about the racial divide, how we got here and jpw we are starting to recognize that we all have a responsiblity to address the issues today.

Episode Takeaways/Dreams:

1. That every well-meaning person on the planet is involved in some form of activism everyday.

2. We are a society that function best when working for the health and well-being of everyone.

Thanks so much for listening.

Subscribe on Apple Podcast, Stitcher , Google Podcast. or Spotify

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You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected]

– You can find Omkari at omkariwilliams.com 

Rhonda Cook was a gutsy reporter who "fell into" her work as an inmate advocate. She developed the trust of inmates in the prisons where she was was assigned and they would call her and let her know about what was going on in the prisons.

In 1998 she started to hear about sexual abuse in a woman's prison. The story covered 18 months of work, and resulted in multiple firings and changes in the prison. Many felony charges were filed, but no one served any time.

Rhonda talked about how she viewed each story in an unbiased way, learning that everybody had a story and everybody hds a truth that was their truth. 

Now that she has retired from reporting, she is finding her voice as a social justice advocate, finding the greatest satisfaction in the voter protection work she is doing.

Episode Takeaways:

1. Decide how you want to live the rest of your life.

2. There are many causes that need advocates.

3. Whatever it is that you care about, just go do it, and do it with all the zesto you can!

Thanks so much for listening.

Subscribe on Apple Podcast, Stitcher , Google Podcast. or Spotify

Follow up on Facebook and Instagram

You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected]

– You can find Rhonda at [email protected]

Live Life in Crescendo was the personal mantra of Stephen R. Covey, author of the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. He worked with his daughter, Cynthia Covey Haller, to share his ideas about the Crescendo Mentality. Unfortunately, Stephen, R. Covey passed away before the books was completed, but Cynthia continued the work and released the book last month.

In this episode, she shares that her Dad did not believe in retirement. He felt that after your career you should still be making meaningful contributions, and living in crescendo for as long as you can.

Despite successes and setbacks, Cynthia explains that the crescendo mentality gives you the perspective to keep growing, learning, and contributing, because you still have important things to give.

She shares stories of triumph and courage and kindness. And she encourages all of us to continue to live in Crescendo.

You can find the book, Live Life in Crescendo - Your Most Important Work is Always Ahead of You, at most bookstores.

Episode Takeaways:

1. Life is a mission, not a career

2. Let someone know they are worthwhile, show them that you see their potential.

3. "The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away." ~ Pablo Picasso

4. Your most important work is always ahead of you.

Thanks so much for listening.

Subscribe on Apple Podcast, Stitcher , Google Podcast. or Spotify

Follow up on Facebook and Instagram

You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected]

– Wendy Green is a Certified Life Coach, working with people going through the sometimes uncomfortable life transition from full-time work to “what’s next.” Find out more about Wendy’s 6-week “What’s Next Transition” Coaching workshop

– You can email Cynthia at [email protected]. You can also find her on LinkedIn and Instagram @cynthiacoveyhaller

Celebrate aging. We rarely take the time to celebrate aging, because we have been sold the idea that aging is something to be avoided and not celebrated. There is a profit motive behind shaming us and telling us how to look, how to feel, how to think, so that we will buy anti-aging products. These messages reinforce our own internal biases about aging.

Janine Vanderburg leads Changing the Narrative where she works on changing the stories we tell ourselves, changing the stories about older workers in the workplace, and changing the stories about older adults in health care environments.

We also talked about the gorgeous age positive birthday cards available at Changing the Narrative. Why send your friends degrading cards, when you can share these beautiful, uplifting cards with them?

Episode Takeaways:

1. Announced a new contest to create humorous and clever anti-aging birthday cards.

2. We can educate ourselves about aging.

3. We can all take small steps every day to raise our awareness and advocate against ageism.

4. When we address ageism we are addressing it for generations to come.

Thanks so much for listening.

Subscribe on Apple Podcast, Stitcher , Google Podcast. or Spotify

Follow up on Facebook and Instagram

You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected]

– Wendy Green is a Certified Life Coach, working with people going through the sometimes uncomfortable life transition from full-time work to “what’s next.” Find out more about Wendy’s 6-week “What’s Next Transition” Coaching workshop

– You can find Janine at [email protected] 

- Changing The Narrative website 

Gramps Jeffrey was in isolation with his wife, children and 6 children during Covid and he had an opportunity to observe the kids up close. From that experience he wrote a book called, "I Don't Want to Turn 3." It tells the story of a tough lesson learned and the resolution shared with the whole family.

In our discussion we talked about how parenting today has changed from how we were parented and how we parented our own children. Gramps shared some cute family examples in the telling of his stories.

As grandparents, he advised that we watch out for the tendency to

• give unsolicited advise
• 
  
• 
  
• use manipulation to try to get what we want
• 
  
• 
  
• undermine the parent's authority
• 
  

What we can do as grandparents, particularly with our younger grandchildren, is find time to read with them. Sharing books builds a closeness between grandparents and the grandchildren. We can ask questions and help them learn to think. We communicate with them while we read to them, and model listening skills.

And if you are a long-distance grandparent, he shared a cute idea for an activity you can do to create connection with your grandchildren.

Episode Takeaways:

1. As grandparents we can help to teach children how to think

2. He suggested one question you could ask every day, "what did you do today that was nice to someone?"

3. When you love, you will teach others to love.

Thanks so much for listening.

Subscribe on Apple Podcast, Stitcher , Google Podcast. or Spotify

Follow up on Facebook and Instagram

You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected]

– Wendy Green is a Certified Life Coach, working with people going through the sometimes uncomfortable life transition from full-time work to “what’s next.” Find out more about Wendy’s 6-week “What’s Next Transition” Coaching workshop

- to subscribe to the Hey, Boomer email list go to bit.ly/heyboomer-subscribe 

- to support the Hey, Boomer Walk to End Alzheimer's team go to act.alz.org/goto/HeyBoomer 

– You can find Gramps Jeffrey at grampsjeffrey.com or at heyboomer.org 

Margit Novack is such a generous guest and she openly and honestly shared her wisdom and experience around the experience of moving as an older adult.

Topics covered include:

• Impact of individual perception of aging

Episode Takeaways:

In addition to all the other thoughts Margit left us with. Here are her take-aways

1. Be present, be grateful

2. Be intentional, take responsibility for the quality of your life.

Thanks so much for listening.

Subscribe on Apple Podcast, Stitcher , Google Podcast. or Spotify

Follow up on Facebook and Instagram

You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected]

– Wendy Green is a Certified Life Coach, working with people going through the sometimes uncomfortable life transition from full-time work to “what’s next.” Find out more about Wendy’s 6-week “What’s Next Transition” Coaching workshop

– You can find Margit at margitnovack.com

- To subscribe to the Hey, Boomer email list go to bit.ly/heyboomer-subscribe

Melanie C. Gordon spoke about the Reverend Desmond Tutu describing Ubuntu as "my humanity is bound up in your humanity." That is the foundation of what we talked about in this episode.

Melanie leads groups in Ubuntu Circles where we learn to connect through our personal stories. When we are open to hearing someone else's story for understanding, we are transformed. It creates a sense of belonging, a shared humanity.

She talked about her time in Rwanda after the genocide, and the filming of the interviews she made there while trying to understand the slow Christian response to the geneocide. She even found Ubuntu here.

I was curious about how Ubuntu is accepted in Western cultures where the focus is more on individualism. In the Ubuntu circles people learn to listen for the individuality of each person, what makes them unique.

1. Try to find joy and purpose in your life, everyday

2. Grow in compassion for others

Thanks so much for listening.

Subscribe on Apple Podcast, Stitcher , Google Podcast. or Spotify

Follow up on Facebook and Instagram

You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected]

– Wendy Green is a Certified Life Coach, working with people going through the sometimes uncomfortable life transition from full-time work to “what’s next.” Find out more about Wendy’s 6-week “What’s Next Transition” Coaching workshop

– You can find Melanie on Instagram at @dolovewalkcollective

- Her website is dolovewalk.co

- email her at [email protected]

- register for the Hey, Boomer Ubuntu Circle

- Recommended book: Everyday Ubuntu by Mungi Ngomane

That is a radical statement! Being well is something we all want. We follow the latest diet trends. We take the recommended supplements. We become "fat phobic," telling ourselves we are not "good enough" if we are overweight.

Debra Benfield, founder and owner of Body in Mind Nutrition, told me that there is an ageist diet/wellness culture that leads to a lack of body respect in the Pro-Aging movement. Deb wants to blaze a path into elderhood without the scales!

Topics covered:

• Internal biases around eating, diet, weight and fitness, specifically focused on women over 50

1. Wrap your head around the idea that all bodies are worthy

2. These suggestions can help you age with vitality and protect you from disordered eating

• Move your body so it feels like play

Thanks so much for listening.

Subscribe on Apple Podcast, Stitcher , Google Podcast. or Spotify

Follow up on Facebook and Instagram

You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected]

Join the Hey, Boomer Walk to End Alzheimer's Team at act.alz.org/go/HeyBoomer 

– Wendy Green is a Certified Life Coach, working with people going through the sometimes uncomfortable life transition from full-time work to “what’s next.” Find out more about Wendy’s 6-week “What’s Next Transition” Coaching workshop

– You can find Debra Benfield at debrabenfield.com 

- On Instagram at @agingbodyliberation

- or email her at [email protected]

The Beauty Myth: How Images of Beauty Are Used Against Women

The Body is Not an Apology: The Power of Radical Self-Love

Intuitive Eating: A Revolutionary Anti-Diet Approach

How to Raise an Intuitive Eater: Raising the Next Generation with Food and Body Confidence

Hello. Welcome to the Hey Boomer Show, which is live each Monday on Facebook, LinkedIn and YouTube and then available the next day on your favorite podcast app. My name is Wendy Green and I am your host for Hey Boomer. And Hey, Boomer is for those of us who believe we are never too old to set another goal or dream, a new dream. It is for lifelong learners who have found meaning and are finding meaning and purpose in their lives and are living their best lives into this new chapter. We at hey boomer are on a push to grow our hey boomer Walk to end Alzheimer's team and what I would like to do is welcome our newest walk member, Kathy McAfee. She joined our Greenville, South Carolina, team. We also have Melanie Whitlock, who is out in Clearlake, California. And you can join her team, her hey, boomer team or Bernadette Wagner. She's having a team out in Hagerstown, Maryland. Everybody who joins the team is going to get a cute, hey, boomer hat that you can wear for the walk and you can wear afterwards with great pride because you are a boomer. So join our team, any of these teams by going to act.ALZ.org/goto/HeyBoomer and if you don't want to walk with us or you feel like you can't, you can still go ahead and contribute so that we can find a cure and end this disease and meanwhile help people that are still going through the disease. I also wanted to mention the What's Next Group Coaching program.

This program helps answer the question Who am I now? Who do I want to be? Will I ever feel useful and productive in society again? And what is my value to my family, my community, my society now that I am no longer fully employed or following my career path? At the end of the six week program, you will have a six month plan and possibly a 12 month plan, and the next cohort begins on September the 20th. And let me show you how you can reach out. You can go to Calendly/heyboomer/20min and we can set up a free 20 minute consultation. Find out where you're at, where you want to be. See if this makes sense to you or you don't have to talk to me if you don't want to. You can just check out the program at HeyBoomer.biz/Coaching and learn all about it. It really can be a program that can move you into your next chapter with great comfort and ease. So let's get to what we're talking about today. And I've been struggling with this topic a little bit, the toxicity of the wellness culture. I mean, I mostly try to eat healthy. I take supplements. I exercise some most of the time. No, probably not as much as I should. And I have to admit, I am a fair weather walker and hiker when it is cold and rainy. I am not the one that's out there, but I do get uncomfortable when the scale says I've gained a few pounds and all of these beliefs about weight and fitness and behaviors.

These all are reinforced by my family and by the media. You know, we all hear comments like, oh, she's really put on some weight or, well, wouldn't she be pretty if she just lost some weight? Advertisements and TV shows portray happy, slender people and not so happy larger people. And if they're heavy older people, the images can be even more demeaning. So preparing for this show has shown me how much I've bought into these ideas that fat is bad and skinny is good. Did you know that we as a society spend over $35 billion on diet products annually? It is a lucrative industry. And diet culture is that collective set of social expectations telling us that there's one way to be. And one way to look. And one way to eat. So that we are a better person. And we're a more worthy person if our bodies are in that mold that we all hear about. So today we're going to dissect what it is meant by the wellness culture, how it can be toxic and how it affects us as we age. And I really want you to join in and ask questions, because a lot of this is learning for me, and I'm sure it's learning for you. So feel free to join us. And let me bring on our expert today. Her name is Deborah Benfield.

Hi, Deb. Wendy. Hey, everybody.

So Deborah invites you to join her on the intersection of pro aging and body liberation on her newest website. DebraBenfield.com. From her experience, she understands how aging creates vulnerability to the ageist, diet, wellness, culture, and how frustrating it is to find a profound lack of body respect in the pro aging movement. And I had to check with her on that quote because I was like, Wait, pro, aging? Aren't we, like all about accepting where we are? Well, you're going to hear about some of how it's not accepting. Deb is a registered dietitian nutritionist with over 35 years of experience in that field. She's also a registered yoga teacher. She is the founder and owner of Body and Mind Nutrition, a group practice of registered dietitians and nutritionists. And like I said, the founder of her newest site, which is more focused on the aging, she'll tell us more about that. Deborah Benfield She's passionate about preventing and treating disordered eating and eating disorders and supporting you in feeling more comfortable and confident in your relationship with food, eating and your body.

So, Deb.

Tell me how you got into this field in the first place and then kind of what your journey has been to move more into the aging space.

Well, I first want to thank you. I really appreciate your openness to this conversation, because I know it's kind of tricky and surprising to think about how the pro aging movement may have some problems with how we look at bodies. And I think that may be more true for women's bodies. I also want to say that my pronouns are she, her, hers. And I want to talk just a minute about my vocabulary. I you'll hear me say obesity right now as a word that I will not be saying any further. I believe that the way we talk about bodies further stigmatizes pathologizing as bodies that are fat and fat, in my worldview is a descriptor just like you have red hair. Wendy I believe that it's just a descriptor of who you are. I have brown eyes, so it's a description of me. So fat in my worldview is not pejorative. It's a description. So you'll hear me say a fat and not the ugly words. And I'll talk a lot more about that later, too. So I got into this because I really like talking to people as whole human beings. So when I started my career, I pretty quickly started referring clients to therapists to talk about issues outside of what was going on in their eating and their relationship with their bodies. And I happened to develop a relationship with a therapist. That was amazing. Her name is Joan Wilkins, and she was my supervisor, and her specialty was eating disorders. So I, very early in my career, started developing this curiosity and interest in learning more. And it's just kind of become what I do. And I'm very passionate about the work. It's very rewarding to watch and work with a woman who starts to become more powerful in her life and doesn't kind of give her power away by wanting to shrink herself. So I hope that's all well.

And so, you know, we talked about the early time we're getting into the eating disorders, but now you're moving into how it's affecting us as we age. So what brought your interest there?

Well, I will be 64 in December. And when I turned 60, I also became a grandmother for the first time.

Oh, congratulations.

Thank you. So something happened in my head where I just wanted to do more research on what we know to be true about how to support aging with vitality and being who I am and understanding what I understand about diet and wellness culture. I was absolutely shocked by how the anti-aging messages hit me hard and fast that I had to get through what I consider to be a bunch of bullshit. I didn't ask you if I can say those kinds of words on your show.

Of course, again, this is an adult show.

But it just felt like I had to wade through a lot of things that I knew were not based in science and I knew were very adjust and what I consider to be phobic. So I quickly saw that I had to dig a little deeper and I really couldn't find what I was looking for. So I realized that I had to I wanted to create what I think people are needing, what I needed to start with. And it's been it's been fascinating to me to really look at how you can support aging with vitality without getting pulled into all of the you must lose weight. Yeah.

So I want to talk about those biases and I want to talk about internal biases because those certainly do hold us back. I mean, and we have more control over those than we do some of the external biases we hear from the media. So in my world, I talk about living an engaged, meaningful life and getting over that internal bias of I'm too old, I don't have the energy anymore. I don't learn as quickly. And shifting that message. In your world, it's more about eating and diet and weight and fitness. And so what are some of the messages that you hear that are internal biases and how do we address those?

Yeah, I think that it's I really love that we're kind of focused on a particular group of people right now because coming of age, when we all came of age, I went back and looked at the timeline of how women's bodies were portrayed in the media. The forties and fifties, women's curvy and voluptuous bodies were heralded as the ideal, the beauty ideal. And as a matter of fact, there are there is evidence of, like ads for weight gain products.

Really?

Yes. I'll show you. There are like you can't be too skinny in the forties and fifties. That's not appealing. Now, of course, all of this marketed to women. Right. And then guess what happened in the sixties?

Twiggy, twiggy.

Twiggy entered our lexicon and the diet industry took hold and just blew up. And women quickly believed they had to be like Twiggy and which, in my opinion, is unachievable and ridiculously thin and likely fragile. And if you pursue that kind of ideal, you have to diet. I mean, that's what happened is the women believed that in order to be beautiful, in order to be valued, in order to have worth, they must diet. So I don't know if you watched Mad Men.

I watch some of that, yeah.

I think the character Betty Draper is an amazing character to talk about when it comes to this, because that show took place when all of this happened and it's set in that time period. They did a great job of showing what happened, especially with women in that time. And she joined Weight Watchers and that was the classic choice. And they show her in several shows going back into the kitchen and sneaking her food and actually bingeing the foods that she was deprived of. So it's really interesting to look at how in the sixties. The dive industry took hold because women felt to be worthy, to be loved, to be valued, they must be thin. And I really feel like that's where it really shifted in a in a big way. And also what you're describing about the money that was to be made based on that. And there are a lot of people that believe that it's not surprising that that's also when the women's movement was taking place and that perhaps there was kind of this interesting way to get women to be disempowered. If they're really focused on dieting, they won't have as much of a voice. They will have as much power. So Naomi Wolf's book, The Beauty Myth, is a wonderful book to read if you want to dig into that concept.

Interesting.

She's not the only one that believes that, but that book is very powerful.

And what's interesting, Deborah, is that if that started in the sixties, here we are.

What.

60 years later and it's still going on. I mean, you know, I can look in my in my cabinet, you know, I have the whole body diet. I have, you know, diet for a small planet. I have South Beach diet. I have like all these books because I'm like, oh, gosh, you know, I've got to lose a little weight. And every trend changes. You know, it's like, Whoa, och, don't eat carbs. Well, now you should eat carbs. Don't eat fruit. Well, now you should eat fruit. You know, it's like count calories don't count calories. And it's so confusing and no wonder it creates disordered eating. I don't know about eating disorders, so maybe you can differentiate that for me because I don't understand that.

Yeah, we're definitely going to talk about that. I don't know if you want to jump into that now, but I think we're we need to talk. I know it's way outside the scope of the show to get to details about eating disorders, but I think it is helpful to look at what is normal and what is disordered and what is an actual diagnosable eating disorder. Yeah. Do you want to do that now?

Well, first of all, Angela says, what was the name of that book you mentioned?

It is titled The Beauty Myth.

The Beauty Myth.

And the author is Naomi Woolf was written quite a while ago, but it's exceptional when it when you look into the principle that we're talking about.

So yeah, we can go one of two ways. Why don't you describe the difference right now? And then we'll talk a little bit more about the dieting and intuitive eating. How about that?

Okay. So perhaps I feel that eating occurs on a continuum and most of us kind of travel up and down that continuum, hopefully not too far toward disordered eating, but normal eating is. Easy. Normal eating is messy. It's eating when you're hungry. When your body says it's time to eat. And stopping. When you're full and. Even a variety of foods that satisfy you. So that you can actually notice when you're satisfied and full. It is not being in your head, counting and calculating and tracking at all. It is only listening to your body and therefore not struggling with feeling guilty or even ashamed of what you're doing. So there's no reaction in your emotional life and there's no space taken up in your head. You're very simply easily eating when you're hungry. Stop it when you're satisfied. And disordered. Disordered eating is likely getting much more in your head with it. And much more rule based, much more tracking, and therefore more reaction. More in your head following rules, and therefore feeling like you're being bad if you've eaten something that you've decided is bad. And eating disorders are. We have many we have anorexia nervosa. We have bulimia nervosa. We have binge eating disorder. We have arfid, which is a new diagnosis, relatively new ARFID stands for If I Get All This right, avoidant restrictive food intake disorder. And it's really about having a negative experience like choking or vomiting, that's created an anxiety about eating or a sensory issue where there are many foods that you feel like you can't eat, that you can only eat a shorter list of foods. And there's also something called Orlistat, which is basically a group of disorders that don't fit into any other boxes. So it's like a catchall phrase, but there is a disorder to the point of some debilitation in your lifestyle, so we can break each of these down. There's a lot to talk about with you.

I know this is where I get hung up, because when you describe normal eating, just eat what you want, when you want until you're full. I mean, I think I had mentioned this to you once, you know, like if I had a plate of chocolate chip cookies here, which is my go to dessert and I have a refrigerator with carrots, celery and lettuce, I'm going for the chocolate chip cookies every time. You know, it tastes good. It's easier than putting together a salad. How is that normal eating? Of course, I'm...

The "Great Unknown" in this episode is the question, "what am I going to do now, after my career just ended?"

Minette Norman had a 30 year career in the IT industry, for the past 20 years with the same company and the last 5 as a VP. Leadership changed, and as often happens when leadership changes, she was now an outsider of the new leadership group. The environment became very uncomfortable until she finally decided it was time to leave.

Now what? Friends had ideas. She had the belief that she was not entreprenuerial, and after much soul-searching, she stepped into the fear and started her own leadership consulting practice.

We talk about rebuilding confidence after a job loss.

We talk about the importance of continuous learning.

We talk about her new book, The Psychological Safety Playbook, that will come out in February of 2023.

And we talked about asking yourself, "Can I give that a Whole Body Yes?"

Episode Takeaways:

1. We are not done yet, unless we want to be. We still have so much to give.

2. Never stop learning!

3. Be open to new experiences

4. Embrace "what if..." Treat everything as an experiment.

Thanks so much for listening.

Subscribe on Apple Podcast, Stitcher , Google Podcast. or Spotify

Follow up on Facebook and Instagram

You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected]

– Wendy Green is a Certified Life Coach, working with people going through the sometimes uncomfortable life transition from full-time work to “what’s next.” Find out more about Wendy’s 6-week “What’s Next Transition” Coaching workshop

– You can email Minette at [email protected] or connect wiht her on her website at minettenorman.com 

Welcome to the Hey Boomer Show. My name is Wendy Green and I am your host for Hey Boomer. And we go live every Monday at 1:00 Eastern Time on Facebook, LinkedIn and YouTube. Hey, Boomer is a show for people who believe that we are never too old to set another goal or dream, a new dream. It is for lifelong learners who are finding meaning and purpose in their lives and living their best life at this next stage of life.

The push is on for the Hey Boomer Walk to End Alzheimer's and I want to thank my Walk to End Alzheimer's team. Prudence Taylor, David Bell Ann Golden, Doris McLallen are on the team in Greenville, South Carolina. Melanie Whitlock is building a team in California and Bernadette Wagner is building a team in Maryland. So we are all in the fight to end Alzheimer's. And anybody who joins our team is going to get a cute, Hey, Boomer hat that you can wear for the walk and then you can wear proudly afterwards. To join our team or to make a donation, If you don't feel like you can walk with us. You would go to act.alz.org/HeyBoomer. So help us walk to end Alzheimer's.

I also wanted to mention the What's Next group coaching program. This program helps answer the question Who am I now? Who do I want to be? And how am I going to feel useful and relevant again? It's a six week group coaching program.

At the end of six weeks, you're going to have a six month plan. And if you're really motivated, you might even have a one year plan to get yourself moving in the direction that's going to feel good to you. That's going to feel like you are on the right path to your next act. You can set up a 20 minute free consultation with me using this calendar link. It's calendly.com /heyboomer/20min, it's 20 minutes that could change your life. And if you want to check out the website first, you can just go to heyboomer.biz/coaching.

Today, you know, we're going to talk about stepping off into the great unknown. And I thought it would be good to give you a little background for myself. In February of 2009, my beloved father passed away. Within two years my second marriage ended. I moved out of my beautiful home. I sold my business for a loss. And I found myself sitting in a group program about being grateful. And at the time, I was struggling to figure out what I was grateful for. I was depressed. I felt depleted. My heart was closed. I just didn't know what I was good at anymore or what made me happy.

I rejoined the corporate world. And then in 2017, I got laid off because of a corporate merger. Took another job. And then in March of 2020, the pandemic shut down the place I was working, and there I was again. What was I going to do? But this time I decided I was going to start a show that was going to inspire people and help all of us through that time. So I started, Hey Boomer, in April of 2020, and it wasn't long after I started, Hey Boomer, that I experienced this amazing sense of freedom. And it came over me that I could say what I wanted to say. I could be authentic. It was my show. And if people didn't want to listen to what we were talking about on the show, they could turn it off. But it was finally an opportunity to really be authentically myself. And it felt great. And I think that is what stepping off into the great unknown will do for you when you find that passion. It can be very unsettling. It can be terrifying, but if it matches your passion and as you settle into it, you will begin to feel that sense of freedom also. And that is what we're going to talk about today. I am going to bring Minette on because I'm super excited about this conversation. Hi, Minette.

Hello, Wendy.

So glad you could join us today.

Thanks for inviting me.

Yeah. Let me do a quick overview of your background and then we'll get into more detail. So Minette spent decades in leadership roles in the software industry. Her last role before leaving the company was as vice president of engineering practices at Autodesk. She began her consulting practice, Minette Norman Consulting LLC in the spring of 2020. Her passion is to develop transformational leaders who create inclusive working environments with a foundation of psychological safety. Minette was named in 2017 as one of the most influential women in the Bay Area business by the San Francisco Business Times and as business role model of the year in 2018 by the Women in Silicon Valley Awards. And she is a recognized leader with a unique perspective. Minette is also the co-author of a book about psychological safety for leaders. The Psychological Safety Playbook: Lead More Powerfully by Being Human, which will be published in February of 2023. Oh, boy. And she's also finishing up another book on inclusive leadership. So you've been busy since you left your corporate job?

Yes, I have. Absolutely.

Well, let's start there. Like, why did you decide after 20 or 30 years in the industry that you were going to step out?

You know, that question could be the whole podcast that we're doing today. It's a really long, it could be a really long answer. So I'm going to try to try to give you a succinct answer to that question. But maybe I'll start by saying I had this amazing career. I spent three decades in the software industry. I didn't expect when I started in 1989 as a technical writer at Adobe that I would end up 25 years later as a VP. I just never considered that. But I did. I had this amazing run. And I guess the short answer is that I had a fabulous career that ended really badly, and the way it ended badly was it was kind of insidious. I didn't quite see what was happening, but with hindsight I can see it very clearly. There I was in this VP role. I was appointed by an SVP who was kind of my sponsor. And when he left the company, that was really the beginning of the end. But I didn't see it so clearly at the time. I got a new boss who was a former peer and he was the peer I got along the least well with, of course, and suddenly he was my boss. And then after I think maybe a year, he brought in a new VP.

And so basically the new VP was my boss. I was moved down a rung. And then what happened? This was really the unraveling was this new VP who was my boss. Gradually he did a big reorg and almost all of my responsibilities were taken away. And I had this I had had a very large, very impactful role that really was a wonderful role. And I loved it. I worked with like 3500 people around the globe. I had a big staff, I had big responsibilities, and those were taken away. And at the same time, what I didn't see and that I can see so well now is that basically they were just they were trying to get me to leave because I was now, you know, when the leadership change, they no longer really needed my services, but they didn't say that explicitly. And instead I got some really unpleasant things happen in that I won't talk about because I've signed one of those non-disparagement agreements, so I just am not going to say what actually happened, but it resulted in me leaving and I didn't plan on leaving when I did, but I did. So there I was in 2019, late 2019, and didn't have a plan.

Yeah, and that is so common when leadership changes that everything gets shook up and they don't want you. So you didn't have a plan. And, you know, one of the things that we've talked about before we are doing the show live was so how did you feel? What did you do? What do you mean? That's pretty scary.

Yeah, I really I didn't have a plan. So, you know, it's kind of interesting when you leave under those conditions, you're always leaving to pursue new opportunities. That's sort of the verbiage. You know, Minette is leaving to pursue new opportunities. And one of the things that was in my mind had been sort of planted by a good friend of mine. And we were attending a nonprofit gala event and we were sitting at a table and he said to me, You know, Minette, you'd be a really good executive director for a nonprofit. And, you know, he's a good friend who's known me for a long, long time. And I thought, what a great idea. And so I started looking around and I got really far into an interview process with a local nonprofit that was looking for a new ED. And it's very good that they ended up picking someone else. And the process took a really long time because midway through it I realized this is not what I want. You know, this was sort of like someone else's idea of what I should be doing, but it wasn't what I really wanted. And I knew this because I'd been on a nonprofit board for several years, and I know what the ED goes through and how hard it is to work with a board and all of that. And I thought, No, I don't want to do that.

So that idea sort of faded away. And then, then I was back to Now what? Now what? And one of the things yeah, one of the things that I really knew, like in that last job that I had for five years, I had been, you know, my on paper description was to transform engineering practices across the company and really modernize how we develop software. But what I was actually doing was changing the culture and changing how people interacted. And really I was doing a lot of work on diversity, equity and inclusion and trying to have more inclusive leadership. And in my mind, that's really what was important to me. And I was spending more and more energy on that even when I was in the job. So as I was doing some soul searching about what I might do next, I thought, well, well, maybe I can do that work working for somebody else, right? So whether it's another company or another. Consulting firm. I definitely never thought I'm going to start my own business because, you know, there was part of the self talk that we do. I said to myself, I am not entrepreneurial because I've always worked for somebody else for my entire career. So, you know, the words we say matter. I'm not entrepreneurial. I believed that. And so then I was introduced to another woman who was starting a consulting firm, and she wanted to hire a group of women.

She was very deliberate about hiring a group of women who would be leadership consultants and that we would help build better workplaces. And so I thought, well, this is perfect. I don't have to start my own thing. I can go work with her. And so I actually spent a few months meeting with her and meeting with the small team she had assembled, and I was ready to sign on. And then she offered me an agreement. It was a legal agreement of how we would partner. And as I'm reading the fine print, I see that it says that she and her firm would own all perpetual rights to anything I created, whether it was a workshop, a talk, written materials, blog posts, whatever. And honestly, one day that was the aha moment for me where I realized, okay, this is what I have. My intellectual property is really all I have. And people are interested in hiring me because of this experience and knowledge. And I can't give that away. I absolutely cannot give that to anyone. I have to own that. And so I realized, okay, if you want to own it and you want to make the decisions yourself, that means you're going to have to start your own thing. And so that's what I did.

There's so much in what you just said. Minette So when did you actually leave the company?

I left Autodesk in August of 2019, 2019.

So it took you a little over a year to kind of figure out what you were going to do next and go through that journey.

It was actually about it was about six months, I guess, because it was like August. And then by kind of the same time you were starting this podcast, I had decided to launch my business. So that's like what, six, seven months? And of course, both of us doing this right at the beginning of a pandemic.

The pandemic. Right. That's what we do. Yeah. So you talked about some of the self-talk, you know, like, oh, I'm not an entrepreneur or, you know, or I mean, I think our self-talk can definitely get in our way. And how did you manage to shift that to Oh, well, I could be an entrepreneur and I am an entrepreneur.

You know, that's a I don't have, an easy answer to that because I think it was all a very gradual process. Part of it was getting over the fact that my self confidence was so shaken I had to. So when I left when I left Autodesk, I really felt very damaged because I felt like I thought I had a bunch of credibility and that manager that I had made me doubt that. And so I had to really kind of rebuild my my strength and my my belief in myself. And part of that for me is always talking to people that know me like I have I have really good close friends, but I also have a network of trusted ex-colleagues and friends I've made through work and really just talking to them about like what really went down. Am I seeing this clearly? I also I will tell you a little sort of a funny story that when I left Autodesk, because I'd been there 20 years, I knew a lot of people I'd I'd had a very big platform those last five years. So many people had heard me speak or knew me. And I got all these emails as you do when you leave a company you've had a long time. So before I left, I get I had I mean, there were well over maybe there were 100 or 200 emails and I'm like, I can't I don't want to forward all these to my personal account. So what I did is I went through them and I actually copied and pasted some of them, the ones that were like the most meaningful to me.

And I put them into one document. So I had this sort of encouragement document of like people who said, you made such an impact, you were really a role model, whatever it was. And I, I went back to that document, however corny that sounds, I would sometimes read the comments in there just to realize that like, okay, you didn't imagine that you, you, you were a good leader and you really did have a positive impact on many people's lives and careers. And so kind of just gradually rebuilding my confidence, I would say, took several months and I was kind of a wreck when I walked out of there. And by the beginning of of 2020, I was starting to feel better. I remember it was just before the pandemic shut down. I did a speaking engagement in San Francisco, and that went really well. And then someone I knew from Salesforce invited me to come in and do a workshop, and it was a leadership offsite. And I did a workshop and it was completely in my wheelhouse and in my comfort zone. And it was. Was great. It went really well. And that gave me that confidence of like, okay, you've just had two wonderful experiences. People wanted you to come in, they appreciated what you had to share. And I was very energized by that. And that that experience was like, okay, well, there's something here. Let me explore what that was and what that is and what that might be. And the first thing I did, because I'd been in tech for so long as well, let's, let's just build a website not knowing what I was getting into.

But I thought, well, if I have a website, I have a business. And so I built my first website which I have since turned over to an expert. But at the time that was like, let me do something tangible. And that just sort of got me going. And the other thing that's funny about that, though, because of the timing is I had a website, I had announced my business and every budget was shut down because of the pandemic. So that's right. Right. Everyone I reached out to was like, Oh yeah, we'd love to bring you in, but all of our budgets are frozen. So in a way that was kind of good because it gave me that 2020 period to figure out what is my offering going to be, what is my sort of, as they say, the value proposition that I uniquely can provide. And I took I took a class that was being offered by someone who has his own leadership consulting practice, and he's really successful. How how? Adler And I took this class with him, and he gave us very practical tips for like, how do you run a leadership consulting business? And that was so helpful to like even just practical things like how do you do proposals, how do you do invoicing, how do you do marketing, etc.? So that kind of built my confidence. And then going into the end of 2020 and into 2021, I got my first client and then, you know, it starts to go from there.

Yeah, no. And I appreciate your vulnerability about that because, you know, I felt the same way when I got let go in 2017. I was building a training department, I'd built their online university, I was enjoying my job, and then it just went away. And it does rock your world. It does shake your confidence. And it's so funny that you said about your list of positive comments that you got because I did the same thing with you. I did. I did the same thing. And, you know, every once in a while, I, I still will go back and look at things that people have written to me or that I've written to to recenter myself. Because I think as human beings, we sometimes do get off center. And I think fear is a big thing that gets in the way of people. And I was just curious about, you know. Of like fear. There's an acronym. Fear is false evidence appearing real. Right. So we we look out and we go, oh, people are never going to buy our product or they're never going to sign up for what I'm doing. And then you have to step into it. Right. And so some of what you did was, like you said, you took a class. You talk to people. You...