Matt and Michael sit down to unpack the growing pains that come with scaling from builder to CEO. From juggling trade shows and staffing shortages to fixing water jets and optimizing Shopify conversion rates, this episode captures what it really looks like to grow a manufacturing company in real time.

They discuss the balance between speed and control, the discipline of hiring slowly, and the struggle to delegate when production pressure is high. Michael reflects on hitting the limits of what worked for a $2M company—and what it takes to evolve toward a $4M operation—while Matt shares how consistency, recurring revenue, and system thinking define sustainable growth.

The conversation moves fluidly between cash flow, client terms, financing models, and trade show ROI, all tied together by one theme: learning to work on the business, not just in it. Whether you’re an engineer, entrepreneur, or operator trying to scale, this episode is a candid look at the mindset shift required to lead through growth.