This week on Babel, McKinley Knoop interviews Jon Alterman, Natasha Hall, and Will Todman about the Middle East Program's new report, "Sustainable States: Environment, Governance, and the Future of the Middle East." They discuss the origins of the report, the crucial role of trust in public service provision and governance, and how the team conducted research during the Covid-19 pandemic. To end, Jon talks about why think tanks and security-minded policymakers in Washington should care about seemingly mundane topics, like public utilities and local governance.