Today we welcome 7-time NASCAR Champion Jimmie Johnson, a racing legend. Motorsport has never been bigger. The Liberty Media world of F1 has exploded, MotoGP has sold for over $4bn, but what about NASCAR? The US's second most watched sport is an entertainment and commercial giant, yet outside of America, it’s fair to say exposure is limited.

Jimmie Johnson is one of the most successful drivers to grace any track; think Lewis Hamilton or Michael Schumacher. He is the joint record holder for most Championships won, dominating the sport in the noughties winning 5 titles in a row. Now, he’s changed the race seat for team ownership with Legacy Motor Club. From billion dollar media rights deals to cars described as revolving billboards, when we get into it, the business of this sport is ridiculous! We’re delighted to welcome Jimmie to the show.

On today's show we discuss:

The Business of NASCAR:

• Where does NASCAR sit in the US sporting ecosystem?
• What does it cost to buy a team, or ‘Charter’, and how many cars do you enter into a race when you have secured your spot?
• The $8bn media deal is a major financer of the sport, but what does the distribution model look like?
• How much do the top drivers get paid and how has the sport changed as regulation restricts the money spent on cars?
• Why the demand for Charters is on the rise and the shift in investor profile.
• Does NASCAR need to go global to reach its full potential? 

The Rise of Jimmie Johnson:

• From humble beginnings to the joint most Championships in NASCAR history, what did the path to the top look like?
• Racing in the 2000s was very different to racing in the present day; how did the salaries and stardom compare?
• Private planes and international fame…NASCAR drivers lived a great life, but what did the sacrifices to achieve the ultimate success look like?
• It’s hard to keep the fire burning; what did Jimmie do to ensure he kept focused and hungry?
• How is Jimmie adding value to Legacy Motor Club as a co-owner that leverages his storied career as a driver?

The Future of NASCAR:

• What does the sport need to do to reach its full potential? Should it go to the F1 playbook?
• Does the business model allow for the sport to grow? Should there be a better distribution model and decentralised control to develop the commercial end?
• With a couple of teams pushing back against the latest regulation, is the sport heading for a political dogfight?
• What does Jimmie want to achieve as an owner? 

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This week, we take a look inside one of the most talked about clubs this season. From hiring Wayne Rooney as manager to knocking Liverpool out of the FA Cup, it’s been a crazy season for Plymouth and CEO Andrew Parkinson. Even more so when the club finds itself bottom of the championship fighting for survival. But this is a club that continually outperforms its budget, competing against teams with 6x bigger budgets, and that’s what we want to get into today. How do you build success in a football club when you can’t rely on money to win? 

On today's show we discuss:

Economics of a Championship Team:

• How do Plymouth compare to their rivals when it comes to the financial resources at their disposal?
• What does a club in the bottom half of the table generate in revenue?
• How much can they afford to spend on player budgets?
• The importance of having multiple budgets for multiple scenarios: facing the relegation reality.
• How much can a Championship team earn from sponsorship?

Plymouth this Season:

• Hiring Wayne Rooney at the start of the season attracted a lot of attention; was it more than a PR move?
• …and what happens when you have to sack a manager?
• The competitive nature of the Championship and the importance of staying in the decision for both financial and player retention reasons
• The value beyond emotions of beating Liverpool and pushing Manchester City in the FA Cup

Improve the Business of Football:

• Why Plymouth are looking for investment and what they would be able to do with an additional capital injection.
• Developing a high performing and well supported women’s team is a priority, but should it be under the same banner as the men’s?
• Does the 3pm blackout help or hinder football across the pyramid?
• Can the club implement a media strategy to help support the profile and exposure of the club?
• Cracking America: capitalising on the pilgrims link with the US  

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This week, we’re delighted to welcome the CEO of the RFU, Bill Sweeney, to the show. There’s no hiding from the fact it’s been a hard few months for the organisation and Bill personally. Significant losses reported last year alongside the now infamous LTIP scheme generated an unrelenting flow of negative press and questions of the leadership. This show is about understanding the financial health of the RFU and wider sport. And it’s certainly not as bad as many would have you believe. 

Fueling the almost holistic negativity around Rugby, which we have talked about many times on the show, is not the aim here. We discuss the governance structure, revenue generation & the Allianz deal, LTIP scheme, England team performance, rugby’s drive to remain relevant, and more. Listen to the facts, make your own conclusions. But, hopefully having listened to this, with a better picture of where the game is at and if the RFU is achieving its primary goal of growing the game in this country and beyond.

On today's show we discuss: 

What is the RFU?:

• For all the criticism and focus on the organisation over the last few months, what does the RFU actually do and is it fit for purpose to deliver on its objectives?
• Should the community game and the professional game be governed by the same organisation?
• "It's time for change". What does Bill think needs to happen to improve the governance of rugby in England?
• The fight is on to keep rugby relevant in an increasingly competitive attention economy; what are the RFU doing to develop the game?

The Finances of Rugby:

• How much money does the RFU generate each year and where is that money spent?
• The story of the LTIP payment and why it was such a problem in the broader context of RFU finances.
• From a new stadium naming rights deal with Allianz to a data driven partnership with Apple, what does the partnership roster look like and how much does it generate?
• The financial cycle shows the governing body loses huge numbers in World Cup years. Should this be changed so countries are not financially penalised during the greatest global show of rugby?
• "85% of the revenue generated comes from the mens team playing at The Allianz. That has to change".
• The challenges of getting through Covid and back to business.

Aligning Finances with Performance:

• "England has won four 6 Nations in the last 22 years. That is not acceptable considering the resources and our game".
• How can the RFU play a role in creating global icons out of England rugby players alongside Premiership Clubs?
• The future is bright: how the emerging England rugby teams are showing the value of investing in pathways and are on track for major success.
• Is the structure currently optimised to get the best out of the performance? A comparison with Ireland, France & New Zealand.

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Welcome to the business of Non-League football. Beneath the top four tiers of the revered English football pyramid sits a whole other football world; hundreds of teams, players, coaches, owners playing week in week out to climb the ladder. Jamie Vardy, Ollie Watkins, Jarrod Bowen, Tyrone Mings have all played non-league football. ‘Welcome to Wrexham’ recently storied the quality that exists and the difficulty in getting out of it.

I’ve wanted to do a show focused on this from day one, so I’m delighted to welcome Eastbourne Borough owner Simon Leslie to the show. This is the fully unfiltered reveal on what it is like to buy, run and try to develop a club outside the core of English football. The opportunity is huge, but the challenges are significant. There’s no soft touch here, as we welcome Simon to the Business of Sport.

In today’s show we discuss:

Buying a Non-League Team:

• What was it about Eastbourne Borough that attracted you to the opportunity when you had looked at clubs in the Football League?
• What is unique about buying a club in Non-League and what was the financial requirement to not just purchase the asset but also to run it?
• Owners now have to go through a rigorous process to check they have the resources to buy a football club…or do they? Is the FA’s ‘Fit & Proper’ test fit for purpose?  
• “There’s an element of stupidity (in football ownership)”. Why do successful business people continue to plough their hard earned money into football clubs?

Can you Make Money?:

• What are the economics of a Non-League club, from no media rights to a brutally competitive commercial landscape?
• How do you stand out from the rest to drive more eyeballs and more traffic through your club? 
• The importance of content in a modern sporting landscape; how Eastbourne have become the envy of many far bigger clubs with a cutting edge, multi platform media offering.
• What needs to happen to drive more revenue opportunity in football? 

Football Governance Fit for Purpose?:

• How much money do Non-League teams receive from the Premier League and EFL, and what changes could be introduced to deliver a better financial outcome?
• Are the right people running football in England?
• Owners have to do more to drive change; why the responsibility doesn’t just sit on the individuals at the top of centralised football.
• Do the people at the top of Women’s football believe in their own product? 
• “I am an unofficial spokesperson for Non-League football because they’re not doing it themselves and they deserve more”

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Another first class Football League CEO in the studio this week. Liam Dooley has been in charge of Shrewsbury town, League one’s longest serving club, since 2023. Operating on the smallest budget in the division, balancing good business with competitive performance is not easy.

Shrewsbury have had 10 consecutive years at this level, but are currently bottom of the league having lost their last four games. But, with their latest accounts showing they have halved their annual losses, the business side has impressed. With a top manager like Gareth Ainsworth in charge on the pitch, the fight is on to escape relegation and attract new investment. We’re back again; how do you build great business off the pitch and win on it? 

In today’s show we discuss:

The Business of a League One Club:

• Can a football club be good business? 
• Has the profile of football club owners now changed so much that ‘local’ owners are no longer able to meet the financial needs of clubs?
• What is the correlation between spending the most and achieving on the pitch the lower down the leagues you go?
• Why did Liam focus so much attention on reducing the club’s financial losses in a short space of time and what are the wider impacts of cutting costs?

Shrewsbury Town: Overachievers?

• Shrewsbury Town are the longest serving club in League One; how has a club with a small budget managed to achieve consistency in a financially driven market.
• How can you be successful when you have the lowest budget in the league? 
• With the club currently looking for investment, what is the profile of owner that’s most attractive to the club and their fans?
• How has Gareth Ainsworth come into the club and created a positive environment even if results aren’t going Shrewsbury’s way?

“Build a Club not a Team”:

• It is important to create a culture in the club that is more than just the men’s team on the pitch for 90 minutes every Saturday. How do you do this?
• Why the women’s team is separate from the operational running of the club, and where does women’s football sit in the future plans of Shrewsbury?
• Leveraging the academy to create future stars for the first team and to become an additional line of business when clubs buy your talent.
• What happens to the club if it gets relegated? Are there things that have to be sacrificed or put on hold?

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Today we welcome one of football’s most iconic CEOs. When Peter Kenyon moved from Manchester United to Chelsea in 2003 after Roman Abramovich bought the club, it was the first time a move in the boardroom was treated like a player transfer. Sir Alex Ferguson was said to be ‘intensely disappointed’, not least because he recognised the role Peter played in the success of United at the time. Having built Man Utd into both a performance and commercial powerhouse, Peter took on the task of executing Abramovich’s vision; to build the best club in Europe.

From working with Ferguson to hiring Mourinho, from creating culture to delivering trophies, we get an answer to the question we have asked for a long time: How to build success off the pitch AND win on it?

It doesn’t get much bigger than this. 

On today’s show we discuss:

Manchester United: Building a Global Brand

• Sir Alex Ferguson was key to the success of Manchester United on and off the pitch; why you couldn’t detach winning from the commercial achievements of the club.
• “Why are some businesses successful and others not? It’s down to people”. The importance of building the best team for the job at hand.
• It wasn’t necessarily about signing the best players; it was about signing the personalities that fit the culture.
• Why United were able to capitalise on their success from a business standpoint where Liverpool didn’t.
• The story behind Rupert Murdoch’s failed acquisition of the club in 1998.

The Move to Chelsea:

• Why did Peter leave the biggest club in the country to take over at newly owned Chelsea in 2003?
• “Abramovich was an unbelievable owner”. What made Chelsea’s owner so great for his 20 years of stewardship and what makes the best owners in football?
• The story (and theory) behind firing Claudio Ranieri and signing Jose Mourinho, and why it just may be the best money Chelsea spent.
• Conversations with Abramovich before he bought the club included a very clear set of ambitions and a definition of what success looks like; what were the targets?
• What was the hardest deal to get done while Peter was in charge of Chelsea?

The Industry Today:

• “The downfall of United was the success of United”. Why it is so important to have a succession plan in sport.
• Are we seeing a break in the relationship of a necessity to win to drive strong commercial performance? 
• It may pain Peter to admit it, but why does he think Liverpool have done an exceptional job in recent years where others have struggled?
• In a nod to his current board seat at Williams F1, why the Williams comeback will be the greatest in sporting history!

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This week, we’re delighted to welcome Lee Johnson to the show. Lee has had a stellar career as both a player and manager, playing over 400 games before becoming the youngest manager in the Football League at 31 when he took over at Oldham in 2013. Since that first job he has managed some historic clubs including Sunderland, Bristol City, and Hibernian.

After a tough year, leaving Hibs followed by a very brief spell at Fleetwood, Lee took the time out to reflect on the next stage of his career and gain some different experiences, from working with Manchester City’s development squad, to going to Africa to source the best young talent. 

The life of a football manager is a pretty crazy one. You live on a knife edge; job security is not something that exists for 99.9%. Lee has been a victim of his own success on more than one occasion, over-achieving and setting new expectations that then need to be continuously met. Hire and fire culture is a reality of modern day football, but it’s not a good one. What is it like being on the manager's end of the deal?

A huge advocate of technology, data and modern coaching methods, this is a detailed review of life as a top level manager while also looking at an evolving football industry continuously in a state of unpredictable change. As always with the best football shows, topped off with some eye-opening stories!

On today’s show we discuss:

Life as a Manager:

• From becoming the youngest manager in the Football League to taking a break following two sackings in a season, the ups and downs of management.
• What was the transition like when Lee made the step from being part of a dressing room to leading one?
• What is a manager’s greatest anxiety?
• Learning from the best; how a relationship with Kenny Dalglish helped Lee establish his managerial career.
• ‘Sometimes football gives you a rest’. What is next for Lee now he has had some time out from the game?
• Why managing mavericks in the game is something a manager has to learn to use to the team’s advantage.

Managing Top Clubs:

• ‘Bristol City was a team for tomorrow’. What does Lee mean by this?
• The importance of balancing good business and player sales with ambition on the pitch and being able to compete.
• A manager can very quickly become a victim of their own success; how strong starts at Bristol City and Sunderland raised the bar of expectation for future results. 
• How do you manage up? Why the relationship between manager and owner is crucial.
• Changing the goal line; how a job can be sold to a manager as one thing and be very different when you get there.
• What it was like beating Jose Mourinho and competing with Pep Guardiola in a historic Bristol City cup run.

The State of Football:

• Are clubs making too many business decisions that are not based on sporting success? 
• Data led recruitment has become the most important strategy in football, but are there other things to consider when signing a player?
• Should managers change their style when you get promoted to a new league?

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This week, we are delighted to welcome James Barclay to the show. James is Team Principal at Jaguar Racing, the current Formula E constructors World Champion. We have done some amazing shows on Formula 1, but this is a new area to venture into. Formula E is the fastest growing motorsport in the world. 

It has been a rapid rise for electric racing since the first season in 2014. In an age where the environment and sustainability dominates, this format has become a pioneer of ‘green’ sport, influencing the technological development of electric cars and influencing broader automotive consumption habits. With the now infamous rebrand of Jaguar at the end of last year, what role does the company’s participation in this sport now play in broader company objectives built exclusively around electric vehicles?

James has been the team Principal since 2015, when the manufacturer first entered the sport. This was the chance to sit down and discuss this alongside the success of Formula 1, understand the similarities and differences, and review how the business of the teams and wider sport works. It’s an entertainment product for the modern age, and a modern audience. 

What makes the Jaguar car faster than an F1 car 0-60? What is the cost of running a Championship winning team? Could Max Verstappen win in a Formula E car? Let’s find out.

On today’s show we discuss:

The world of Formula E:

• Creating a new sport - the origins of Formula E and how it differs from other forms of racing.
• How has it evolved since its inception; from a concept on the back of a napkin to leading global motorsport.
• What do the revenue streams look like for a Formula E team? From sponsorship to prize money to media rights.
• Do spending caps and regulations placed on the teams drive financial sustainability?
• How media rights and the mediafication of sport has affected Formula E? Is there a Drive to Survive moment on the horizon?
• How do drivers become Formula E drivers rather than another motorsport? What are the differences?

Formula E vs Formula 1:

• What are the similarities between the two formats? 
• What has F1 copied from Formula E? Are the two in competition or can they coexist harmoniously?
• How would F1 drivers fare in the Formula E championship? If you put Max Verstappen in a Jaguar car, would he win the Championship?
• What lessons can Formula E take from F1 when it comes to global outreach?
• Do Formula E’s cars lead to better racing? More overtakes, quicker acceleration, more skill?

The future of EVs and Jaguar:

• How much does Motorsport at the elite end influence global consumer habits across an automotive industry?
• How the Jaguar rebrand towards EVs affected their participation in Formula E? Is all press good press?
• In what ways do the sponsors in Formula E advance the overall development in EV technology?
• Holding exclusive rights to electric racing until 2039, is Formula E the future?

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With the Six Nations underway, it’s time to talk rugby. Benjamin Kayser won 47 caps for France, playing club rugby in both The Premiership and Top 14 for the likes of Leicester Tigers and Clermont. Since hanging up his boots, he has become a regular on our screens as a commentator and pundit with ITV. Not afraid to say it how it is, and with an undying passion for the game, there was no one better to sit down with on the eve of the tournament to look at the overall health of the sport.

We have had a number of amazing rugby chats on the show, and each one has brought a different perspective and assessment of where the game is strong and where improvements are needed. From a French perspective, the domestic game is in good stead, with media revenues triple that of the Premiership and the financial flexibility to sign the biggest players. 

But as we discuss on the show, is it too simple or even accurate to blame the salary cap in the Premiership for an inability to match the commercial performance and quality of the French league? By extension, why has it been so important for both domestic leagues and international federations to turn to Private Equity cash? 

This is unfiltered rugby chat from a former player who knows what needs to happen to bring this sport to a global audience. 

On today’s show we discuss:

Premiership vs Top 14:

• Having played in both, what is the major difference between the two leagues and has it changed since Benjamin was playing?
• We know a lot about transfer processes in football, but what happens when a rugby player moves clubs?
• The financial difference between playing in France and England.
• Why has Top 14 broken away from the Premiership in quality and commercial performance? Has France got its domestic model right?
• What has attracted billionaires to invest in the French leagues in ways we haven’t seen in England?
• The importance of multi-purpose stadia to drive revenue not reliant on rugby.

Rugby Players as Cultural Icons:

• Why have rugby players found it hard to build a ‘superstar’ profile that is needed to drive eyeballs in a sporting environment driven by individuals?
• Can you be a team player and build your own personal brand?
• Is it the responsibility of the player or the club/federation to elevate the ‘status’ of their talent?
• Has rugby leveraged media opportunities provided by OTT platforms well enough to compete with Drive to Survive or All or Nothing?
• The rise of Ilona Maher and the need for a player in the men’s game to deliver a level of engagement beyond their work on the field.

The Health of International Rugby:

• International rugby is capable of attracting hundreds of millions of viewers, but how do you transform one time watchers into regular fans?
• How relationships with club rugby organisations can influence the success of international teams.
• Should players be eligible for selection if they do not play in their domestic leagues?
• What are the economics of international rugby? How much are match fees and who gets paid the most?

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Today, we welcome a British sporting legend. That term can get thrown around a lot, but as a multiple Olympic, World and European Champion, Alistair Brownlee is one of the greatest triathletes of all time. As you hopefully now know with this show, the sporting success is only one side of our guests. It’s what they are doing alongside their elite performance that drives our intrigue, and Alistair is far more than the sum of his medals.

The money in athletics and triathlon is nothing like the money available in other major sports, and therefore it can often be difficult to carve out a career in it, let alone look at how to invest and create value for yourself off the back of medals and titles. But Alistair took a different approach, and has been educating and investing throughout much of his professional career, heeding the advice of his coach who told him ‘if you invest this money now, that could be a year you don’t have to work when you retire’.

From giving up a medicine degree at Cambridge to commit to triathlon to winning double Olympic gold, including a famous London 2012 victory, this is an athlete who understands the true value a life in sport can bring to business. Newly retired, how does an elite performer fill the void left by regular sporting competition? In his own words, “I’ve had such an amazing career in sport and now I’m really excited about trying to be successful in another sphere”.

On today’s show we discuss:

Sport over Education?

• Do you always have to sacrifice education to pursue a career at the top end of sport? 
• How did Alistair decide that he would chase the dream of becoming a professional triathlete over his medicine degree at Cambridge?
• What sacrifices do elite athletes have to make in the pursuit of success in their given sport? Do they view it as a sacrifice?
• As an athlete it is important to have things in your life that are not related to sport, and why it doesn’t mean you are not committed if you do.

Finances of Athletics 

• Is there enough money in professional triathlon to make it your full time job?
• What are the financial rewards on offer for winning events and performing at the highest possible level?
• How do sponsorships work? A more niche sport makes it harder to sign big deals; how did Alistair and his brother Jonny break the mould and sign a high profile contract with BT?
• What advice was Alistair given by his coach that encouraged him to invest some of his winnings and not spend them?
• Winning Olympic gold in London thrust him into the limelight in a short space of time. What changes when you achieve this kind of success?

A life after sport:

• It’s often said that athletes die twice, the first time being when they retire. Having made the announcement at the end of last year, what is next for Alistair?
• How important is it to prepare for your life after sport while you are still competing and not waiting until you finish?
• The rise of ‘Ultra’ competitions and the attraction of finding new challenges in competition as well as business.
• “I’ve had such an amazing career in sport and now I’m really excited about trying to be successful in another sphere”

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