This week, we’re delighted to welcome Lee Johnson to the show. Lee has had a stellar career as both a player and manager, playing over 400 games before becoming the youngest manager in the Football League at 31 when he took over at Oldham in 2013. Since that first job he has managed some historic clubs including Sunderland, Bristol City, and Hibernian.

After a tough year, leaving Hibs followed by a very brief spell at Fleetwood, Lee took the time out to reflect on the next stage of his career and gain some different experiences, from working with Manchester City’s development squad, to going to Africa to source the best young talent. 

The life of a football manager is a pretty crazy one. You live on a knife edge; job security is not something that exists for 99.9%. Lee has been a victim of his own success on more than one occasion, over-achieving and setting new expectations that then need to be continuously met. Hire and fire culture is a reality of modern day football, but it’s not a good one. What is it like being on the manager's end of the deal?

A huge advocate of technology, data and modern coaching methods, this is a detailed review of life as a top level manager while also looking at an evolving football industry continuously in a state of unpredictable change. As always with the best football shows, topped off with some eye-opening stories!

On today’s show we discuss:

Life as a Manager:

• From becoming the youngest manager in the Football League to taking a break following two sackings in a season, the ups and downs of management.
• What was the transition like when Lee made the step from being part of a dressing room to leading one?
• What is a manager’s greatest anxiety?
• Learning from the best; how a relationship with Kenny Dalglish helped Lee establish his managerial career.
• ‘Sometimes football gives you a rest’. What is next for Lee now he has had some time out from the game?
• Why managing mavericks in the game is something a manager has to learn to use to the team’s advantage.

Managing Top Clubs:

• ‘Bristol City was a team for tomorrow’. What does Lee mean by this?
• The importance of balancing good business and player sales with ambition on the pitch and being able to compete.
• A manager can very quickly become a victim of their own success; how strong starts at Bristol City and Sunderland raised the bar of expectation for future results. 
• How do you manage up? Why the relationship between manager and owner is crucial.
• Changing the goal line; how a job can be sold to a manager as one thing and be very different when you get there.
• What it was like beating Jose Mourinho and competing with Pep Guardiola in a historic Bristol City cup run.

The State of Football:

• Are clubs making too many business decisions that are not based on sporting success? 
• Data led recruitment has become the most important strategy in football, but are there other things to consider when signing a player?
• Should managers change their style when you get promoted to a new league?

Our Partners:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.com/

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

This week, we are delighted to welcome James Barclay to the show. James is Team Principal at Jaguar Racing, the current Formula E constructors World Champion. We have done some amazing shows on Formula 1, but this is a new area to venture into. Formula E is the fastest growing motorsport in the world. 

It has been a rapid rise for electric racing since the first season in 2014. In an age where the environment and sustainability dominates, this format has become a pioneer of ‘green’ sport, influencing the technological development of electric cars and influencing broader automotive consumption habits. With the now infamous rebrand of Jaguar at the end of last year, what role does the company’s participation in this sport now play in broader company objectives built exclusively around electric vehicles?

James has been the team Principal since 2015, when the manufacturer first entered the sport. This was the chance to sit down and discuss this alongside the success of Formula 1, understand the similarities and differences, and review how the business of the teams and wider sport works. It’s an entertainment product for the modern age, and a modern audience. 

What makes the Jaguar car faster than an F1 car 0-60? What is the cost of running a Championship winning team? Could Max Verstappen win in a Formula E car? Let’s find out.

On today’s show we discuss:

The world of Formula E:

• Creating a new sport - the origins of Formula E and how it differs from other forms of racing.
• How has it evolved since its inception; from a concept on the back of a napkin to leading global motorsport.
• What do the revenue streams look like for a Formula E team? From sponsorship to prize money to media rights.
• Do spending caps and regulations placed on the teams drive financial sustainability?
• How media rights and the mediafication of sport has affected Formula E? Is there a Drive to Survive moment on the horizon?
• How do drivers become Formula E drivers rather than another motorsport? What are the differences?

Formula E vs Formula 1:

• What are the similarities between the two formats? 
• What has F1 copied from Formula E? Are the two in competition or can they coexist harmoniously?
• How would F1 drivers fare in the Formula E championship? If you put Max Verstappen in a Jaguar car, would he win the Championship?
• What lessons can Formula E take from F1 when it comes to global outreach?
• Do Formula E’s cars lead to better racing? More overtakes, quicker acceleration, more skill?

The future of EVs and Jaguar:

• How much does Motorsport at the elite end influence global consumer habits across an automotive industry?
• How the Jaguar rebrand towards EVs affected their participation in Formula E? Is all press good press?
• In what ways do the sponsors in Formula E advance the overall development in EV technology?
• Holding exclusive rights to electric racing until 2039, is Formula E the future?

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

Orreco  https://www.orreco.com/

Scan.com https://uk.scan.com/

With the Six Nations underway, it’s time to talk rugby. Benjamin Kayser won 47 caps for France, playing club rugby in both The Premiership and Top 14 for the likes of Leicester Tigers and Clermont. Since hanging up his boots, he has become a regular on our screens as a commentator and pundit with ITV. Not afraid to say it how it is, and with an undying passion for the game, there was no one better to sit down with on the eve of the tournament to look at the overall health of the sport.

We have had a number of amazing rugby chats on the show, and each one has brought a different perspective and assessment of where the game is strong and where improvements are needed. From a French perspective, the domestic game is in good stead, with media revenues triple that of the Premiership and the financial flexibility to sign the biggest players. 

But as we discuss on the show, is it too simple or even accurate to blame the salary cap in the Premiership for an inability to match the commercial performance and quality of the French league? By extension, why has it been so important for both domestic leagues and international federations to turn to Private Equity cash? 

This is unfiltered rugby chat from a former player who knows what needs to happen to bring this sport to a global audience. 

On today’s show we discuss:

Premiership vs Top 14:

• Having played in both, what is the major difference between the two leagues and has it changed since Benjamin was playing?
• We know a lot about transfer processes in football, but what happens when a rugby player moves clubs?
• The financial difference between playing in France and England.
• Why has Top 14 broken away from the Premiership in quality and commercial performance? Has France got its domestic model right?
• What has attracted billionaires to invest in the French leagues in ways we haven’t seen in England?
• The importance of multi-purpose stadia to drive revenue not reliant on rugby.

Rugby Players as Cultural Icons:

• Why have rugby players found it hard to build a ‘superstar’ profile that is needed to drive eyeballs in a sporting environment driven by individuals?
• Can you be a team player and build your own personal brand?
• Is it the responsibility of the player or the club/federation to elevate the ‘status’ of their talent?
• Has rugby leveraged media opportunities provided by OTT platforms well enough to compete with Drive to Survive or All or Nothing?
• The rise of Ilona Maher and the need for a player in the men’s game to deliver a level of engagement beyond their work on the field.

The Health of International Rugby:

• International rugby is capable of attracting hundreds of millions of viewers, but how do you transform one time watchers into regular fans?
• How relationships with club rugby organisations can influence the success of international teams.
• Should players be eligible for selection if they do not play in their domestic leagues?
• What are the economics of international rugby? How much are match fees and who gets paid the most?

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.com/

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

Today, we welcome a British sporting legend. That term can get thrown around a lot, but as a multiple Olympic, World and European Champion, Alistair Brownlee is one of the greatest triathletes of all time. As you hopefully now know with this show, the sporting success is only one side of our guests. It’s what they are doing alongside their elite performance that drives our intrigue, and Alistair is far more than the sum of his medals.

The money in athletics and triathlon is nothing like the money available in other major sports, and therefore it can often be difficult to carve out a career in it, let alone look at how to invest and create value for yourself off the back of medals and titles. But Alistair took a different approach, and has been educating and investing throughout much of his professional career, heeding the advice of his coach who told him ‘if you invest this money now, that could be a year you don’t have to work when you retire’.

From giving up a medicine degree at Cambridge to commit to triathlon to winning double Olympic gold, including a famous London 2012 victory, this is an athlete who understands the true value a life in sport can bring to business. Newly retired, how does an elite performer fill the void left by regular sporting competition? In his own words, “I’ve had such an amazing career in sport and now I’m really excited about trying to be successful in another sphere”.

On today’s show we discuss:

Sport over Education?

• Do you always have to sacrifice education to pursue a career at the top end of sport? 
• How did Alistair decide that he would chase the dream of becoming a professional triathlete over his medicine degree at Cambridge?
• What sacrifices do elite athletes have to make in the pursuit of success in their given sport? Do they view it as a sacrifice?
• As an athlete it is important to have things in your life that are not related to sport, and why it doesn’t mean you are not committed if you do.

Finances of Athletics 

• Is there enough money in professional triathlon to make it your full time job?
• What are the financial rewards on offer for winning events and performing at the highest possible level?
• How do sponsorships work? A more niche sport makes it harder to sign big deals; how did Alistair and his brother Jonny break the mould and sign a high profile contract with BT?
• What advice was Alistair given by his coach that encouraged him to invest some of his winnings and not spend them?
• Winning Olympic gold in London thrust him into the limelight in a short space of time. What changes when you achieve this kind of success?

A life after sport:

• It’s often said that athletes die twice, the first time being when they retire. Having made the announcement at the end of last year, what is next for Alistair?
• How important is it to prepare for your life after sport while you are still competing and not waiting until you finish?
• The rise of ‘Ultra’ competitions and the attraction of finding new challenges in competition as well as business.
• “I’ve had such an amazing career in sport and now I’m really excited about trying to be successful in another sphere”

Our Partners:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.ai

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

Today, we bring you the man who founded the global phenomenon HYROX. Mo is a double Olympic Gold Medallist in hockey, having won with Germany in Beijing and London. Described to me by someone who knows far more about the sport as ‘The Cristiano Ronaldo’ of field hockey, we were pretty excited to get both a sporting icon and high flying entrepreneur in the studio; always what we strive for on the Business of Sport!

Since it was founded in 2017, HYROX has become a major player in sporting participation. Consisting of both running and 8 separate ‘fitness’ activities to form a unique race format, millions of people have participated in their events around the world. The success has been so impressive that they have now had to implement a ballot in some cities (including London where they had over 70,000 applications) to manage demand.

But this isn’t just a series of fitness events; this is a sport, the driving values of which lie in community and engagement. I can’t deny, when we got into it, the business was pretty insane too. This has been the most requested show over the last 3 months. It was a lot of fun entering a completely new area for the show. This is one incredible sports asset that is only going to get bigger.

We’re delighted to welcome Mo to the Business of Sport.

What is HYROX?:

• “52% of people call fitness their sport, but what is the sport”? What was the opportunity moment that led to Mo and Christian embarking on their HYROX journey?
• A breakdown of what an event actually consists of; from running to sled pushes to rowing.
• How they have taken HYROX from a 650 person event in Hamburg in 2017 to 650,000 signed up global participants this year across 85 events.
• Can anyone participate in HYROX? Who is the target audience?
• How did Mo’s experience as an athlete prepare him for life as an entrepreneur?

Creating Community:

• “You cannot reduce this down to the business model”: how Moritz created one of the most engaged fitness communities in the world.
• Why does he think this has resonated with so many people and what do they attribute the success of HYROX to so far?
• What does it mean to build community? Lots of people talk about it but very few are able to achieve and then maintain it.
• Why is it so important to build out both the professional end and the mass participation front?

The Business of HYROX:

• From a near $100m in sign-ups this year to selling media packages to the majority of participants, how do you build on the HYROX hype without exploiting the loyalty of the people who helped build it? 
• The importance of relationships with global brands like PUMA and Red Bull; the commercial model that powers the brands.
• How an affiliate model with gyms will power the development of the sport and allow people to train specifically for events.
• Which events have HYROX licensed and which ones do they keep in-house; the logistics of operating a global series.

Check out HYROX here:

https://hyrox.com/

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.com/

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

This week we’re delighted to welcome EFL Chair Rick Parry to the show. Rick has seen it all in football; The first CEO of the Premier League, CEO of Liverpool (1998-2009), and now Chair of English Football League. It can easily be argued that overseeing the interests of 72 clubs ranging from Leeds to Morecambe, is the hardest job in football.

But Rick would never look at it like that. When we asked why take this job now having been offered it in the past, he simply responded ‘because I believe I can make a difference’. Football in the UK is at an interesting junction; the Premier League has never been more successful, financially and engagement wise, but there are question marks over its long term stability. The EFL has recently agreed a mega £1bn broadcast deal with Sky with the quality of football on the rise, yet the financial chasm to the Premier only increases. 

How do you make clubs sustainable businesses? How do you bridge the financial gap between the leagues? How do you protect a community’s most socially valuable asset? The challenge was laid out perfectly: ‘We want sporting jeopardy without financial catastrophe’.

Rick’s assessment of the health of the infamous football pyramid alongside the power of enterprise Premier League asks the key question: should the Premier League do more to support the football structure that enables its success? 

On today’s show we discuss:

Forming the Premier League:

• How was the world’s most successful league created in a few hours with a new set of groundbreaking regulations to govern it?
• The importance of the relationship with Sky in building a business model that supported the global growth of English football and its assets.
• How much money did the Premier League make compared to the EFL in the first season and what has that gap grown to now?
• What makes English football so unique and special compared to other leagues? 
• The essence of the game is opportunity; anyone can reach the Premier League and anyone can win it. Rising through the pyramid (and falling down it) is the jeopardy we all want!

Financial Successes and Challenges:

• The Premier League was productised to create a marketable and best in class football product, but did Rick ever expect the gap to the EFL to be so big?
• How much does the EFL generate today and what does it need to do to ensure the sustainability of its 72 member clubs?
• “We must create sporting jeopardy without financial catastrophe”; why owner financing cannot be the model to build a club on.
• The Premier League makes £2.2bn more than any other League. Why does it need to be spending more money that it’s earning?

Distribution & Regulation:

• Should the Premier League be paying more money to the EFL to share in the spoils of the success it achieves as part of the English pyramid?
• Does football need an independent regulator? What would a regulator be able to do that the current governance structure is incapable of implementing?
• “You don’t need a parachute to fall off a step. You need a parachute to fall off a cliff”; Why parachute payments are a problem.
• The Premier League has chosen to spend £850m more on wages when the EFL asked for £300m to support their business. What does that mean?

Our Partners:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.ai/

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

We’re back with a bang as we welcome Harlequins CEO Laurie Dalrymple to the show. This is one of English sport’s most historic organisations. Laurie has been in charge of the Premiership Rugby team for over 5 years, establishing them as one of the leading commercial entities in the game while delivering huge success including league titles and European Cup semi-finals on the pitch. 

We’ve had some incredible rugby chats on the show in the past. This is no different. From the viability of teams as sustainable businesses to the development of more players as ‘sporting icons’, Laurie gave us a compelling review of what it means to run a historic sporting organisation fighting to remain at the forefront of sporting entertainment. But can one club achieve real success if the league isn't set up to facilitate it? Our age old ‘rising tide lifts all boats’ discussion. We also recorded this a few hours after the club announced a bumper new deal for Marcus Smith; couldn’t have timed that better.

Before joining Quins Laurie was previously Managing Director of Wolves, overseeing the signings of Ruben Neves, Diogo Jota, and Nottingham Forest’s high flying manager Nuno Espirito Santo. Rugby fans, football fans, there’s something in here for everyone.

Importance of Talent

• Top talent on your roster is essential to building a better commercial vehicle that brands want to interact with.
• From Marcus Smith to Alex Dombrandt, how have Harlequins looked to enhance the profile of their star players to build value into the club.
• Is rugby capable of delivering global superstars? When the sport is all about the importance of the team, is there a place for ‘superstar’ personalities?
• Is there concern that the salary cap and spending restrictions placed on English clubs causes the top talent to move abroad or not come to the Premiership in the first place?
• The importance of legacy and ensuring the players appreciate what has gone before them at this historic club.

Financial Management

• Is Laurie a supporter of the salary cap model and why was it introduced in the first place?
• Can the financial challenges experienced by clubs in recent years be purely attributed to spend on the pitch or are there other factors at play?
• How does the salary cap work? What are the budgets and how can they be spent?
• How have Harlequins built the most valuable club in England with the highest revenues? From enhancing fan experience to trusted brand partners.
• What are the financials of the club? Despite performing very well in the existing environment they are still not profitable.

Rugby vs Football

• What did Laurie bring into rugby from his time as Managing Director at Wolves? Where were there direct crossovers and what was the biggest difference?
• What is a better investment? Buying a rugby club or buying a football club?
• What are the differences between owners in rugby and football? How does the business model change?
• Should football have a salary cap?
• Reflecting on the signings of Neves, Jota, and the Wolves team that returned to the Premier League 

Our Partners:

Orreco 

www.orreco.ai

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

Today is the milestone 50th episode and we have a guest to match it. Édourard Mendy is a Champions League and AFCON winner. He won FIFA's ‘The Best’ and UEFA Goalkeeper of the year award in 2021. He holds the record for the joint most clean sheets in a single Champions League season. He went from nearly giving up the football dream in a French job centre with a baby on the way to winning the CL with Chelsea in 7 years. And now he's playing alongside Mahrez, Firmino and Toney at Al-Ahli. 

Away from the pitch, he is building a reputation as a passionate investor looking to translate the success he has achieved on the pitch to help founders build great businesses. As Édou states, the move to Saudi has also been about facilitating the work he can do away from the pitch as well as being part of an exciting new football landscape; ‘it’s not just about football and not just about money’.

This is one of sport’s great stories; a meteoric rise to the top that had to endure countless challenges to achieve Édou’s reality today. From his early days in France to developing football in West Africa, with a big helping of his time at Chelsea, we get a rare insight into the inner workings of a top tier footballer. 

On today’s show we discuss:

Origins of a Champions League Winner:

• How did Mendy get his break in France? What is it like to work your way from the bottom?
• What happened when Édou decided to look at a career outside of football because he wasn’t making it in football?
• You have to be careful who you put your trust in; when agents promise opportunities that don’t materialise.
• The role family and humble beginnings have played in keeping him grounded as success has quickly come to him.
• Signing for Reims and then Rennes which paved the way for his move to Chelsea.

The Chelsea Story:

• From getting a call from goalkeeping coach Christophe Lollichon to eventually signing his contract; the Chelsea transfer story.
• How long does it take for clubs to agree to a transfer? What did Marina Granovskaia say was unique about his move?
• What role did Frank Lampard play in helping Édou establish himself as Chelsea’s number one keeper?
• What happens when a manager changes at a club? From Lampard to Tuchel…
• The inside story of Chelsea’s iconic Champions League win in Porto. Why Tuchel wanted to play on Chelsea’s underdog status.
• From Champions of Europe and the World to the fringes of the squad; where did it go wrong?

Moving to Saudi Arabia and what comes next:

• Why this move is not just about football and not just about money; what are the considerations that influence transfers?
• ‘It is important to feel wanted and I felt that from Al Ahli’. How a conversation with the CEO convinced Édou that this was the club for him.
• What is most exciting about the emerging league and how is the country preparing for it’s World Cup hosting duties?
• Playing in a dream team with Mahrez, Toney and Firmino and the star power of the Saudi League.
• When an athlete becomes an investor; how Édou is building a profile for himself as an investor and what is the value of athletes bringing their expertise to emerging companies?
• How establishing football in West Africa and Senegal in particular is and will always be a key part of his focus.

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

After amazing shows with a number of CEO’s across the football industry, we’re today venturing into the lowest of the English Football League’s with current League Two promotion chasers Port Vale. Matt Hancock has been CEO of this historic club since January. Having been relegated from League One in his first few months in charge, it’s fair to say the learning curve has been steep.

But these are the shows we love to do. It’s proper business, not propped up by the billions of international ownership. Understanding how to run a sustainable company that is not eternally dependent on owner financing while constantly trying to win on the field is so difficult. Then add the fact that almost every decision is reviewed under a microscope generally with the benefit of hindsight, you do sometimes think who would take this on.

But then you remember that alongside these challenges comes the privilege of looking after the thing that can give people their greatest enjoyment. The lower down the football pyramid you go, being a CEO is about building an environment to sustain a community’s most valued asset. This is a compelling reveal on how you do just that.

On today’s show we discuss:

Becoming a CEO in Football:

• How did Matt come to take charge of one of English Football’s oldest clubs?
• From building community to winning on the pitch, what are the key focuses of clubs the lower down the Football League you go?
• How important is the relationship between executive and owner?
• It’s about more than results; why Matt believes his job is to ensure those working at the club know that success can be about more than 3 points on a Saturday. 
• How to ensure you keep level headed, not getting too high on the highs and too low on the lows.

Handling Relegation:

• Port Vale got relegated from League One in the first few months of Matt’s tenure as CEO. How did he make sure the club recovered to build for the new season?
• The importance of a great manager in the lower leagues; why Darren Moore has been crucial to the recent development of Port Vale.
• What attracts players to a club that goes beyond just being paid the most?
• The financial impact of relegation and trying to move away from a reliance on owner funding to ensure sustainability.

Working for the Fans & Community:

• Is it better to over communicate with fans and open yourself up to increased scrutiny or reduce what you share and lose connectivity?
• How Port Vale has become an intrinsic part of its community and the importance of the club to the local area.
• The challenge of ensuring you don’t make decisions based on fan sentiment; how to remain neutral and not be influenced by emotion.
• The role of lifelong Vale fan Robbie Williams!
• Communicating spend away from the pitch on infrastructure and development is important to create an understanding around the need to build value in the ‘business’ of the club.

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

Today we speak to a man who has been in and around football for over 40 years. Mark Bowen played over 400 games at the top of English football for the likes of Tottenham, Norwich and West Ham, before transitioning into management as both a head coach and assistant. For much of his management career he has partnered with Mark Hughes, acting as his assistant manager at Man City, Stoke, Southampton, Fulham and QPR. 

Most recently Mark has spent a number of years with Reading, and is currently going through a delicate process around his exit from the club; a conversation for another time. 

However this is something that we have wanted to do for a long time. Quite a lot of our shows fall into the more serious ‘business of sport’ category. Having got to know Mark, this is someone that has seen the inner workings of clubs transacting at the highest level, and has some incredible stories to tell off the back of it. From being at Man City when they were bought by Sheik Mansour and the Abu Dhabi Group to being in the opposing dugout for QPR when Aguero scored THAT goal, this played to the kid in both of us while emphasising the fact that the business of football isn’t always a smooth process.

Kick back and enjoy some proper tales of signings, sackings, and outrageous transfer bidding.

On today’s show we discuss:

The birth of the new Man City:

• Which players did Sheik Mansour want to sign as a statement transfer when he bought the club?
• How do you integrate a load of new players to form a cohesive team when the money is flowing and budgets are virtually endless.
• The incredible transfer story of signing both Vincent Kompany and Pablo Zabaleta after the sale of one key player, and the conversation he had to have with Kompany when he arrived.
• Lionel Messi for £35m? How the club accidentally bid for one of the greatest players ever.
• Why was Mark Hughes fired by the club with the club flying in both the league and cups, and what happens to managers when they get that call?

Tales from Stoke, Southampton, and QPR:

• Turning Stoke into a top performing Premier League club who were able to attract top European talent like Bojan and Shaqiri.
• Overseeing a QPR team struggling for survival in the League with Joey Barton as captain and Tony Fernandes as owner.
• The Man City title win story…from the QPR dugout: what does Mark attribute that memorable Aguero moment to?
• Moving to Southampton and the challenge of managing top teams when there is an agreement to sell players you want to keep.

Football vs Money:

• Harry Redknapp’s reaction to Mark leaving West Ham to sign for a Japanese club…and the number that persuaded him the offer was too good to turn down.
• How to manage your personal life in football when the team takes you away from your family and home. Is it worth it?
• Is it always about the money, or do players need to be incentivised by other things in and around clubs?
• Where was Mark at his happiest both as a player and a manager?

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/