This week we’re delighted to welcome Carl Frampton to the show. Second dive into boxing is long overdue and so much has happened since we last visited the sport. A boxing legend and Ring Magazine ‘Fighter of the Year’ in 2016, he was the first Northern Irishman to hold world titles in two weight classes, Carl is recognised as one of the best fighters of his generation.

As you may expect, there is far more to him than the success he achieved in the ring. This was also the time for us to understand what the life of a top class fighter looks like, and how the business of the sport works from the athlete’s perspective. Saudi involvement has elevated both prize money and fight calibre in recent times, correcting some of the big problems in the sport and making the fights that everyone wants to see actually happen. But this hasn’t always been the case, and from the promotion world that can consist of exploitation and mismanagement to the challenge of driving commercial opportunities building the brand of the individual, Carl’s story is one of both past and present.

Now one of the leading media figures in the sport as well as exploring a number of business ventures including his own whiskey brand, we take a look inside a sport that is re-establishing itself as one of the major assets in global entertainment. Whether a fan of Carl or just fascinated by the boxing industry, this is one you’ll enjoy. 

On today’s show we discuss:

Boxing Industry: A Good Place to be?

• Why is professional boxing considered by Frampton to be a “crooked” and exploitative business?
• What happened in Carl Frampton’s legal dispute with Barry McGuigan, and what does it reveal about fighter vulnerability?
• Is the real danger in boxing the fights themselves, or the hundreds of rounds of sparring in training camps?
• What can be done at the coaching level to reduce head trauma and protect fighters?

Business of Boxing:

•  How does a fighter’s earning potential evolve from early career to world championship level?
• What role do management structures play in limiting or enabling endorsement and sponsorship deals?
• Why did Frampton earn more from sponsorships after leaving his initial management, even without a world title?
• Why is building a brand now essential for boxers to reach the top commercially?
• Who are the best and worst examples of fighters whose success (or lack thereof) was defined by branding?

Changing World of Boxing:

• How has Saudi Arabia, and specifically Turki Al-Alshikh, changed the boxing landscape?
• Why are previously impossible matchups now becoming reality, and how did the Saudi-backed model enable this?
• Does influencer boxing help or hurt the sport overall?
• How are fighters like Jake Paul impacting the visibility and pay of other boxers, especially women?
• Is jealousy among traditional boxers driving backlash against influencer fights?

Fighter Psychology & Motivation:

• How did Frampton’s mindset evolve through his career, and did he ever truly enjoy boxing?
• Why did he set a retirement age early on, and how did that shape his choices in the ring?
• What motivates fighters to retire and then return and is it often driven by financial pressures?
• How are fighters like Jake Paul impacting the visibility and pay of other boxers, especially women?

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This week we’re delighted to welcome Sony Sports CEO Rufus Hack to the show. Strap in, this is a reveal on how technology is changing sport, from the man that brings us Goal Line Technology, VAR, TMO, DRS and much more. Sony have been elevating their proposition, developing on the established Music, Entertainment and Playstation divisions to influence sport and deliver crossover value as sport converges with the modern entertainment industry.

Through their ownership of Hawkeye, Rufus oversees the company that is implementing some of the most important changes in sport; the decision review systems aimed at increasing accuracy and elevating sporting products. As you know, this doesn’t come without its challenges.

What this conversation reveals is a fascinating perspective on how this tech is created and then implemented by the various sports with varying degrees of success. How do we ensure the tech delivers what we need it to via ensuring it is properly applied, because it’s rarely a fault of the tech; normally a fault of the operator. On top of this, leveraging Toy Story IP in an NFL environment and an assessment of the crazy golfing landscape completes a truly unique and different show.

On today’s show we discuss:

Sony’s Role in Sport:

• How Sony’s global footprint, spanning India, the UK, and South Asia, gives it a unique vantage point in the sports broadcasting world.
• The strategic importance of local relevance in international rights and how Sony tailors its offering to cricket, football, and combat sports fans.
• How Sony’s sports business sits within the broader Sony Group and the advantages (and limitations) of operating within one of the world’s most diversified media companies.
• What is the acqusition strategy of the company looking to make moves in a new environment?

VAR & Decision Review:

• How VAR is implemented differently across sports and the importance of education supporting accurate usage.
• The global standardisation of officiating technology and what federations need to get right before adopting tools like Hawk-Eye.
• The importance of a move to fully automated offside and broader decision making, removing the chance of human error.
• Is 95+% VAR accuarcy reliable enough when the cost is so great on fan emotion and experience?
• The evolution of decision review systems (DRS) in cricket and the growing fan expectation for accuracy, transparency, and speed in officiating.

Changing World of Sport:

• How fans’ media habits are fragmenting, and why that makes sports content more valuable, not less.
• The tension between global streaming consolidation and the regional nuance required to serve true fanbases.
• Why leagues and federations need to rethink rights packaging, data usage, and storytelling in a world of short attention spans and instant feedback.
• The role of AI and automated production in driving cost-effective coverage, and how Sony is investing in next-gen workflows.
• What Rufus sees as the biggest challenges and opportunities for sports media businesses over the next 5–10 years, and why the traditional broadcaster vs. streamer narrative is missing the bigger picture.

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Today we’re delighted to welcome Bradford City CEO Ryan Sparks to the show. Promotions don’t come much more dramatic than Bradford City’s 96th minute winner on the final day of the season to seal promotion to league one. We know how important it is to move through the leagues for both the business and performance side of clubs. 

Bradford is a team with immense support, Premier League history, a 25,000 seater stadium…but it’s been a chaotic 25 years since leaving the premier league. Administration, relegations, England's 4th tier, cup finals; moments of real lows with a sprinkling of hope. That’s football to most. 

We primarily think of the extreme pressure and scrutiny in football falling on the players, but executives shoulder a huge portion of that too. Once the youngest CEO in the EFL at 29, it hasn’t always been smooth sailing for Ryan. But with the first major steps achieved, this is the man in charge of restoring a great club’s successes with the platform now to build from. 

On today’s show we discuss:

How Promotion was Achieved:

• The story (from the boardroom) and that crazy final day which saw Bradford promoted with almost the last kick of the season.
• How does the performance and business sides of the club differ when it comes to handling the pressures of results.
• What needs to be in place to achieve promotion, and how well are the club set up to perform in League One?
• How do the finances of Bradford compare to other teams in League Two and does success correlate with financial capabilities?
• Recovering from previous relegations and the impact past failures had on being able to bounce back.

Business of Bradford:

• How to create a stable £8-9m business in League Two.
• What areas of the business and most influential in generating revenue for the club and how does it compare to other teams in the division?
• Being careful not to fall into the major problem in football finances today; sustainability defined as ‘sustainable losses’.
• What is the economic impact of promotion?
• Does having a 25,000 seater stadium significantly increase the earning potential of Bradford, or is there a downside?

EFL Opportunities and Challenges:

• How have Wrexham and Birmingham (among others) impacted the financial demands on clubs in lower league football?
• How the new media deal actually did not favour Bradford…why did they still vote for it?
• ‘The English Pyramid’ is the greatest footballing institution in football; how do you protect its financial capabilities while continuing to celebrate Premier League success?
• Can a football club really protect itself from overspending?

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I love this game! To anyone who has an interest in sport and finds themselves regularly on social media, this catchphrase is likely to mean something to you, as is the person who coined it. Patrice Evra is one of the most decorated and stand out footballers of the last 20 years. Premier Leagues, Champions Leagues, his success on the pitch most famously with Manchester United is no secret.

But as his media profile has shown, there is more to the man than football. There’s a drive, focus, and application that runs deep, now being leveraged to build a career in business both in and out of the sport. The value of the athlete investor has never been more topical, and in this special show we explore it in a new way, as we welcome Tommy Fish, his business partner at emerging football tech start-up ‘PLAYER’, for a unique insight to how a top athlete can help create a business.

PLAYER is tackling one of the biggest challenges in football; the provision of access and opportunity for the sport’s brightest young players. Based on Tommy’s vision and Patrice’s crazy stories, this chat is full of education and entertainment!

On today’s show we discuss:

The Value of the Athlete Investor:

• Why are more athletes looking to develop their exposure to business opportunities away from the pitch?
• A deepdive into Pat and Tommy’s business ‘PLAYER’: The Linkedin for Footballers
• How can a business best leverage the experiences of someone like Patrice to develop their product and audience?
• Did players are Manchester United look to invest in businesses and how did Sir Alex Ferguson react to players having a focus away form football?
• The danger of players never been taught how to manage the vast amount of money they make during their careers.

Opportunities to Disrupt Football:

• Social Media: how the creation of an online presence and personality has provided Patrice with a whole new method of engagement.
• “Football has changed”...how? What is different now from the days Patrice was playing and is it a good thing?
• While there is lots good about the football industry, there are many ways the game needs to improve. What is PLAYER doing to be a part of the tech movement disrupting sport?
• Why the age of social media has created a new kind of footballer.
• Is there an issue with the emergence of ‘player as brand’ and taking influence and control away from management?

Creating the Right Mentality:

• “If you are a lazy person you are in big trouble”. The mentality that makes for the best players also makes for the best business people!
• Why in the year Manchester United won the Champions League and Premier League, losing the FA Cup is his resounding memory.
• What does a winning mentality look like and how can you build one?
• How was the culture of win at all costs instilled at Manchester United and what happened when Ferguson eventually left?
• When David Moyes was sacked, did the players look at themselves to take responsibility?

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Today we’re delighted to welcome Guy Kinnings to the show. Guy is the CEO of European (DP World) Tour and Ryder Cup Europe. Our first venture into golf and it couldn’t be better timed. An Incredible Rory McIlroy Masters win to kick off the season followed by a summer of elite culminating in the Ryder Cup in New York in September. 

The business or politics of golf have been hotly debated since the inception of Saudi backed LIV Golf a few years ago. Big cheques attracting some of the world’s top players put huge pressure on the DP World Tour & PGA Tour to retain talent and continue to create elite sporting events. As Guy talks through today, this should be viewed as a development of the game; an opportunity to build on the successes of what have gone before while elevating the global product of golf.

Naturally, with responsibility falling on his shoulders (behind the scenes at least) to deliver a rare Ryder Cup away win, there is plenty of conversation around what makes one of the most special events in sport tick. In a sport of genuine global icons and unparalleled moments of drama, we take a look at how the game develops behind the glamour of the 18th green.

On today’s show we discuss:

What is the DP World Tour:

• There are many tours and competitions taking place around the world. What is the DP World Tour responsible for?
• Who gets to play on the Tour? How the reference to ‘European’ is a misnomer; this is a sporting organisation with global reach.
• The finances associated with golf. From major sponsorship and broadcast deals to the cost of creating elite sporting events.
• With many of the key European players going and playing their golf on the PGA Tour in America, how do they retain value and participation at the top of the DP Tour?
• What does the strategic alliance with the PGA Tour look like and how have they been impacted by the arrival of LIV Golf?

Athletes as Icons:

• Golf has produced some of sport’s most famous names; the rise of Jack Nicklas, Arnold Palmer, Tiger Woods and now Rory McIlroy.
• The Rory McIlory effect: from completing the grand slam winning the Masters to driving the European game forward, how important is individual stardom in the sport?
• How the commercial value of talent can drive a tournament forward or undermine its credibility.
• Where do the opportunities lie for golfers to really write their name in the history books: a Ryder Cup special!
• If golfers were on the stock market, which player would Guy invest in?

The Future of Golf:

• The arrival of LIV has brought in private equity investment and a new set of eyeballs. Should this be viewed as an opportunity to grow the game at all levels?
• Building value in new markets can create additional opportunities for organisations like the DP World Tour to develop.
• How influential is something like the Ryder Cup in shaking off some negative perceptions of the sport?
• Is golf genuinely accessible and if not, can more be done to bring the game to areas of the world with the least access?

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Today we’re delighted to welcome Spencer Owen, Founder & Owner of the iconic Hashtag United, to the show. This is one of the most unique organisations in football. Why? Well it was founded on the internet before becoming a successful men’s and women’s team competing in English football. Spencer, or Spencer FC as many of his fans know him, built one of the strongest online brands in football, with over 2m YouTube subscribers regularly engaging with his channel. 

When he decided to take Hashtag from online concept to physical sports asset, unsurprisingly it was met with confusion and ridicule by an industry not known for it’s acceptance and embrace of change. As a result, this show is one of most interesting assessments of both what makes football so great, and where there are major opportunities for change. It’s a very different take on the football owner and executive shows we’re used to, and that’s why we love it. 

This is sport for a modern age, packaged in a conversation explaining how a club that has more subscribers than many Premier League clubs has created a new blueprint for team ownership and management.

On today’s show we discuss:

SpencerFC to Club Owner:

• What was the first step in becoming one of the most famous football ‘influencer/streamer’ and how did that lay the foundations for Hashtag United?
• This is a club born on the internet; from creating a community online to turning those fans into active sports goers.
• Influencer driven sport has become a far more recognised phenomenon, but what was it like in the early days taking creators into real life football matches?
• This is reverse engineering a football club; why building a fanbase before they had an on-field product has given Hashtag a unique opportunity 

Business of Hashtag

• “We are at our heart an advertising business when you think about how we make money”
• Playing in the 7th tier of English football does not deliver big revenue, so what have Hashtag done to make themselves so commercially attractive.
• How not owning their own stadium is an issue they are looking to resolve and why a physical home for their broad fanbase will elevate the team’s identity.
• Raising money is next on the agenda but what type of people is Spencer looking to bring into the ownership group?
• “We are the opposite of Wrexham”

Dealing with Criticism…

• How naming the team Hashtag United created an unforeseen issue yet remains one of the most important things about the club.
• Is there a problem with creating a model dependent on views more than results?
• The story of how the club has used broader issues and opportunities in women’s football to create a really successful team.
• The 3pm blackout and the issues that it hides…?
• It doesn’t make financial sense to be promoted in non-league football! What does Spencer mean by this?

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Today we’re delighted to welcome the British and Irish Lions CEO Ben Calveley to the show. The Lions are one of the most iconic institutions in sport. Made up of players from England, Scotland, Ireland, and Wales, this team which tours once every four years is the pinnacle of many a rugby player's career.

In just a few weeks, the team will begin its tour of Australia, trying to win a series for only the third time in the last 30 years. This highlights how difficult it actually is for the Lions to be successful. There are few things more difficult than winning away in New Zealand, South Africa and Australia. But what is it that makes the Lions so revered? How do the players turn off rivalry to become the ultimate team for a few short weeks. As described by the Lions themselves which perfectly sums it up, this history is a testament to the power of unity, where rivalries are set aside in pursuit of rugby excellence.

This is the real Lions brought to you by the man in charge of the whole legacy. We’re delighted to welcome Ben to the Business of Sport.

On today’s show we discuss:

Sculpted in History:

• When was the Lions formed and how has it shaped the most unique team in rugby, maybe even in sport?
• What does it mean to be a part of the Lions; from inclusion as player to the coaching staff taking on the challenge.
• Who has the advantage? The balance between putting together the strongest team from four great rugby nations and playing away from home.
• Why has success been so hard to come by and what have winning teams been able to harness?

Business of The Lions:

•  Behind the history, legacy and honour lies a business that needs to be delivering more than once every four years.
• How does the organisation make money? From broadcast to sponsorship to ticketing; the numbers behind the Lions.
• Can The Lions make themselves less financially dependent on the tour and diversify their risk profile to ensure the business is not over exposed?
• How do sponsorships work and why does Ben think their partners are so keen to align themselves with the team?
• This is a profitable organisation! What could other sports organisations pick up from the value created around the team?

The Future:

• A historic organisation must leverage its legacy while continuing to innovate. What are the Lions doing to ensure they remain at the front of the attention economy?
• The introduction of the Women’s Tour and what that does for both rugby and the brand.
• Would the team ever play a series in a location other than Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa?
• The modern media environment has created an era of sports documentaries, but how were the Lions at the front of this movement?
• Creating an event out of the squad announcement; how a day at the O2 will create an F1 car launch style buzz around one of the most exciting aspects of any Lions tour.

Today we’re delighted to welcome Manchester City Women’s Director Charlotte O’Neill to the show. This is a part of the game we talk about a lot. The growth of women’s football has been in turbo over the last decade, both in the UK and beyond. Man City have been one of the clubs leading that charge, compiling a squad of world class talent with the facilities and infrastructure to deliver on a long term ambition, to be the best women’s team in the world.

But behind this is a broad range of both successes and major challenges to overcome. From developing female first brands with unique value propositions to being held to account for a lack of financial sustainability as the men’s game haemorrhages cash, there’s a real story to be told for what is going on behind the scenes as these teams evolve through their investment phase into legitimate standalone football brands with social and commercial firepower.

On today’s show we discuss:

Evolution of Man City Women:

• When a women’s team is starting out, does it need to be able to leverage the brand and credibility of a strong men’s team to get ahead?
• What has been the most important part of being a team in the City Football Group setup?
• From foundation to legitimacy: how have the club developed both a trophy chasing team on the pitch supported by best in class infrastructure off it.
• What are the biggest challenges about running a women’s team in the WSL?
• Are the expectations placed on the women’s team similar to that of the men?
• How an access to the leadership of Man City, such as Director of Football Txiki Begiristain, has benefited Charlotte and her team when it comes to football and business.

Creating a Proper Business:

•  ”This assumption that women's football has to be sustainable from day dot really drives me mad”. What does it mean for the game to be in the ‘investment phase'?
• Understanding who the fans are; who are the core group attracted to the matches and how to the compare to the ‘traditional’ City fan?
• The rise of female first partnerships: how the women’s team and signing major brand deals with businesses looking to unlock and resonate with a new audience.
• What are the key revenue streams that drive the team and how do they compare to the men’s business model.
• To what extent does success on the pitch drive the success off it?

The Wider World of Women’s Football:

• How does the WSL compare to other strong leagues in the US and Europe?
• Are we attracting the top talent to come and play in the league and do the financial opportunities offered compete with salaries elsewhere?
• Should we franchise women’s football? The balance between security and maintaining brand value with jeopardy and open football pyramids.
• Where are the biggest opportunities for women’s football over the coming years?

A huge thanks to our partner:

Orreco 

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Today we’re delighted to welcome Surrey County Cricket CEO Steve Elworthy to the show, our first venture into one of the toughest businesses in sport. Surrey is a historic institution in a historic sport, part of a club set up integral to the development of all cricket, including the much loved short form franchise tournaments that dominate today. But well documented, the clubs are struggling big time. Surrey, as you’ll hear, is not one of them. 

By far the best team chasing a 4th consecutive championship, a key piece of infrastructure generating tens of millions a year, a perfect location in London, the business of this county team will surprise you I’m sure. But this format is in need of support and innovation. How can we grow the game of cricket and protect the clubs and format that may be out of fashion at the moment, but without which much of cricket wouldn’t exist? 

This is the business of cricket away from the shining lights and big music. 

On today’s show we discuss:

The Business of Surrey:

• What are the key business drivers of Surrey? From sponsorships to media to ticketing and events.
• Why is it so important to have a multi-purpose venue capable of generating revenue away from cricket?
• What is the balance of value between County Championship and short form matches like The Hundred or T20 Blast? 
• Some years revenue can be £45m, others £65m. Why is it hard to create consistency in annual turnover?
• The sale of Hundred franchises will pump millions of pounds into the county game. What will this be used for?

Impact of Short Form Cricket:

• The Hundred and T20 Blast play a major role in attracting fans to club grounds. How do club benefit from these short formats even if they don’t directly own a team?
• Why innovation in cricket is more than just reducing the number of balls bowled.
• A discussion around player pay: there needs to be a recognition of the opportunities players receive and provide competitive offers to attract the best talent.
• With the Mumbai Indians owners buying into the Oval Invincibles, what will the benefits of a relationship be?

Keeping County Cricket Alive:

• The maintenance of red ball cricket is important for more than just tradition; why the grassroots game depends on long form cricket.
• Are the counties marketing their core product well enough?
• Surrey get over 50,000 fans in for a season; how can that be replicated in locations where teams get only 6 or 7,000?
• How can county teams modernise to attract the young fan and shake the perception that this is a format of the past?

A huge thanks to our partner:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.com/

Today we welcome Exeter City CEO Joe Gorman. This show is long in the making. One of the most requested guests we have had. Why? Well Exeter are one of football’s biggest rarities; a fan owned club. This means they cannot rely on the wealth and exuberance enjoyed by many to succeed on and off the pitch. They actually have to try and make the business make sense.

Punching above their weight for many years, the club sits in League One alongside mega rich teams like Birmingham and Wrexham, and are more than competitive. So how does a club owned by 4700 fans paying £24 a year compete at the top level? How have they turned a £5m investment into the academy to a return of £20m. And why is Joe adamant this is a club here to be the best football team, not just to pat on the head and applaud for doing things unusually well.

A truly unique model. A truly unique conversation. This is the other side of the ‘Business of Football’.

On today’s show we discuss:

Exeter: A Fan-Owned Club:

• What does it mean to be owned by the fans and how does it actually work when you have over 4700 ‘owners’ involved in the club?
• Is Joe’s job made easier or harder without having the pressures exerted on management by demanding multi-millionaire owners chasing the glories of Premier League football?
• How does the business of the club actually work in the context of making decisions to spend money. Is it consensus driven?
• The importance of building trust: “the fans need to know I have the best interests of the club at heart”
• Why this is more than a club to patronise for doing well off the field and how Joe, along with manager Gary Caldwell, is installing a winning culture from top to bottom.
• Would the club ever look for investment away from the fanbase?

A Unique Playing Model:

• When you can’t go out and spend millions on a star player, how do Exeter uncover talent who fit their model?
• The importance of creating value for top teams by nurturing talent and being a home that clubs want to send their brightest young players to.
• Buying players for 5-figures and selling them for 7-figures; winning for Exeter is more than just 3 points on the pitch.
• The value of the sell-on clause: why having a percentage sale on players sold is such a valuable cash flow addition.
• The fanbase needs to understand and get behind this business model for it to work. How do they relate to a team with pure ideals that may have a ‘success ceiling’?

Competing in the EFL:

• The financial disparity between clubs even in League One is becoming more apparent than ever. How do Exeter leverage their unique model to compete with big spenders?
• Are clubs like Wrexham and Birmingham good for the Football League?
• Whose responsibility is it to capitalise on the increased exposure afforded to the football league with big investors and TV deals now a common occurrence?
• Why does Joe fear wage inflation will be the thing that makes competing on a manageable playing field too hard to navigate?

And to our amazing partner:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.com/