With the Six Nations underway, it’s time to talk rugby. Benjamin Kayser won 47 caps for France, playing club rugby in both The Premiership and Top 14 for the likes of Leicester Tigers and Clermont. Since hanging up his boots, he has become a regular on our screens as a commentator and pundit with ITV. Not afraid to say it how it is, and with an undying passion for the game, there was no one better to sit down with on the eve of the tournament to look at the overall health of the sport.

We have had a number of amazing rugby chats on the show, and each one has brought a different perspective and assessment of where the game is strong and where improvements are needed. From a French perspective, the domestic game is in good stead, with media revenues triple that of the Premiership and the financial flexibility to sign the biggest players. 

But as we discuss on the show, is it too simple or even accurate to blame the salary cap in the Premiership for an inability to match the commercial performance and quality of the French league? By extension, why has it been so important for both domestic leagues and international federations to turn to Private Equity cash? 

This is unfiltered rugby chat from a former player who knows what needs to happen to bring this sport to a global audience. 

On today’s show we discuss:

Premiership vs Top 14:

• Having played in both, what is the major difference between the two leagues and has it changed since Benjamin was playing?
• We know a lot about transfer processes in football, but what happens when a rugby player moves clubs?
• The financial difference between playing in France and England.
• Why has Top 14 broken away from the Premiership in quality and commercial performance? Has France got its domestic model right?
• What has attracted billionaires to invest in the French leagues in ways we haven’t seen in England?
• The importance of multi-purpose stadia to drive revenue not reliant on rugby.

Rugby Players as Cultural Icons:

• Why have rugby players found it hard to build a ‘superstar’ profile that is needed to drive eyeballs in a sporting environment driven by individuals?
• Can you be a team player and build your own personal brand?
• Is it the responsibility of the player or the club/federation to elevate the ‘status’ of their talent?
• Has rugby leveraged media opportunities provided by OTT platforms well enough to compete with Drive to Survive or All or Nothing?
• The rise of Ilona Maher and the need for a player in the men’s game to deliver a level of engagement beyond their work on the field.

The Health of International Rugby:

• International rugby is capable of attracting hundreds of millions of viewers, but how do you transform one time watchers into regular fans?
• How relationships with club rugby organisations can influence the success of international teams.
• Should players be eligible for selection if they do not play in their domestic leagues?
• What are the economics of international rugby? How much are match fees and who gets paid the most?

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.com/

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

Today, we welcome a British sporting legend. That term can get thrown around a lot, but as a multiple Olympic, World and European Champion, Alistair Brownlee is one of the greatest triathletes of all time. As you hopefully now know with this show, the sporting success is only one side of our guests. It’s what they are doing alongside their elite performance that drives our intrigue, and Alistair is far more than the sum of his medals.

The money in athletics and triathlon is nothing like the money available in other major sports, and therefore it can often be difficult to carve out a career in it, let alone look at how to invest and create value for yourself off the back of medals and titles. But Alistair took a different approach, and has been educating and investing throughout much of his professional career, heeding the advice of his coach who told him ‘if you invest this money now, that could be a year you don’t have to work when you retire’.

From giving up a medicine degree at Cambridge to commit to triathlon to winning double Olympic gold, including a famous London 2012 victory, this is an athlete who understands the true value a life in sport can bring to business. Newly retired, how does an elite performer fill the void left by regular sporting competition? In his own words, “I’ve had such an amazing career in sport and now I’m really excited about trying to be successful in another sphere”.

On today’s show we discuss:

Sport over Education?

• Do you always have to sacrifice education to pursue a career at the top end of sport? 
• How did Alistair decide that he would chase the dream of becoming a professional triathlete over his medicine degree at Cambridge?
• What sacrifices do elite athletes have to make in the pursuit of success in their given sport? Do they view it as a sacrifice?
• As an athlete it is important to have things in your life that are not related to sport, and why it doesn’t mean you are not committed if you do.

Finances of Athletics 

• Is there enough money in professional triathlon to make it your full time job?
• What are the financial rewards on offer for winning events and performing at the highest possible level?
• How do sponsorships work? A more niche sport makes it harder to sign big deals; how did Alistair and his brother Jonny break the mould and sign a high profile contract with BT?
• What advice was Alistair given by his coach that encouraged him to invest some of his winnings and not spend them?
• Winning Olympic gold in London thrust him into the limelight in a short space of time. What changes when you achieve this kind of success?

A life after sport:

• It’s often said that athletes die twice, the first time being when they retire. Having made the announcement at the end of last year, what is next for Alistair?
• How important is it to prepare for your life after sport while you are still competing and not waiting until you finish?
• The rise of ‘Ultra’ competitions and the attraction of finding new challenges in competition as well as business.
• “I’ve had such an amazing career in sport and now I’m really excited about trying to be successful in another sphere”

Our Partners:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.ai

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

Today, we bring you the man who founded the global phenomenon HYROX. Mo is a double Olympic Gold Medallist in hockey, having won with Germany in Beijing and London. Described to me by someone who knows far more about the sport as ‘The Cristiano Ronaldo’ of field hockey, we were pretty excited to get both a sporting icon and high flying entrepreneur in the studio; always what we strive for on the Business of Sport!

Since it was founded in 2017, HYROX has become a major player in sporting participation. Consisting of both running and 8 separate ‘fitness’ activities to form a unique race format, millions of people have participated in their events around the world. The success has been so impressive that they have now had to implement a ballot in some cities (including London where they had over 70,000 applications) to manage demand.

But this isn’t just a series of fitness events; this is a sport, the driving values of which lie in community and engagement. I can’t deny, when we got into it, the business was pretty insane too. This has been the most requested show over the last 3 months. It was a lot of fun entering a completely new area for the show. This is one incredible sports asset that is only going to get bigger.

We’re delighted to welcome Mo to the Business of Sport.

What is HYROX?:

• “52% of people call fitness their sport, but what is the sport”? What was the opportunity moment that led to Mo and Christian embarking on their HYROX journey?
• A breakdown of what an event actually consists of; from running to sled pushes to rowing.
• How they have taken HYROX from a 650 person event in Hamburg in 2017 to 650,000 signed up global participants this year across 85 events.
• Can anyone participate in HYROX? Who is the target audience?
• How did Mo’s experience as an athlete prepare him for life as an entrepreneur?

Creating Community:

• “You cannot reduce this down to the business model”: how Moritz created one of the most engaged fitness communities in the world.
• Why does he think this has resonated with so many people and what do they attribute the success of HYROX to so far?
• What does it mean to build community? Lots of people talk about it but very few are able to achieve and then maintain it.
• Why is it so important to build out both the professional end and the mass participation front?

The Business of HYROX:

• From a near $100m in sign-ups this year to selling media packages to the majority of participants, how do you build on the HYROX hype without exploiting the loyalty of the people who helped build it? 
• The importance of relationships with global brands like PUMA and Red Bull; the commercial model that powers the brands.
• How an affiliate model with gyms will power the development of the sport and allow people to train specifically for events.
• Which events have HYROX licensed and which ones do they keep in-house; the logistics of operating a global series.

Check out HYROX here:

https://hyrox.com/

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.com/

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

This week we’re delighted to welcome EFL Chair Rick Parry to the show. Rick has seen it all in football; The first CEO of the Premier League, CEO of Liverpool (1998-2009), and now Chair of English Football League. It can easily be argued that overseeing the interests of 72 clubs ranging from Leeds to Morecambe, is the hardest job in football.

But Rick would never look at it like that. When we asked why take this job now having been offered it in the past, he simply responded ‘because I believe I can make a difference’. Football in the UK is at an interesting junction; the Premier League has never been more successful, financially and engagement wise, but there are question marks over its long term stability. The EFL has recently agreed a mega £1bn broadcast deal with Sky with the quality of football on the rise, yet the financial chasm to the Premier only increases. 

How do you make clubs sustainable businesses? How do you bridge the financial gap between the leagues? How do you protect a community’s most socially valuable asset? The challenge was laid out perfectly: ‘We want sporting jeopardy without financial catastrophe’.

Rick’s assessment of the health of the infamous football pyramid alongside the power of enterprise Premier League asks the key question: should the Premier League do more to support the football structure that enables its success? 

On today’s show we discuss:

Forming the Premier League:

• How was the world’s most successful league created in a few hours with a new set of groundbreaking regulations to govern it?
• The importance of the relationship with Sky in building a business model that supported the global growth of English football and its assets.
• How much money did the Premier League make compared to the EFL in the first season and what has that gap grown to now?
• What makes English football so unique and special compared to other leagues? 
• The essence of the game is opportunity; anyone can reach the Premier League and anyone can win it. Rising through the pyramid (and falling down it) is the jeopardy we all want!

Financial Successes and Challenges:

• The Premier League was productised to create a marketable and best in class football product, but did Rick ever expect the gap to the EFL to be so big?
• How much does the EFL generate today and what does it need to do to ensure the sustainability of its 72 member clubs?
• “We must create sporting jeopardy without financial catastrophe”; why owner financing cannot be the model to build a club on.
• The Premier League makes £2.2bn more than any other League. Why does it need to be spending more money that it’s earning?

Distribution & Regulation:

• Should the Premier League be paying more money to the EFL to share in the spoils of the success it achieves as part of the English pyramid?
• Does football need an independent regulator? What would a regulator be able to do that the current governance structure is incapable of implementing?
• “You don’t need a parachute to fall off a step. You need a parachute to fall off a cliff”; Why parachute payments are a problem.
• The Premier League has chosen to spend £850m more on wages when the EFL asked for £300m to support their business. What does that mean?

Our Partners:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.ai/

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

We’re back with a bang as we welcome Harlequins CEO Laurie Dalrymple to the show. This is one of English sport’s most historic organisations. Laurie has been in charge of the Premiership Rugby team for over 5 years, establishing them as one of the leading commercial entities in the game while delivering huge success including league titles and European Cup semi-finals on the pitch. 

We’ve had some incredible rugby chats on the show in the past. This is no different. From the viability of teams as sustainable businesses to the development of more players as ‘sporting icons’, Laurie gave us a compelling review of what it means to run a historic sporting organisation fighting to remain at the forefront of sporting entertainment. But can one club achieve real success if the league isn't set up to facilitate it? Our age old ‘rising tide lifts all boats’ discussion. We also recorded this a few hours after the club announced a bumper new deal for Marcus Smith; couldn’t have timed that better.

Before joining Quins Laurie was previously Managing Director of Wolves, overseeing the signings of Ruben Neves, Diogo Jota, and Nottingham Forest’s high flying manager Nuno Espirito Santo. Rugby fans, football fans, there’s something in here for everyone.

Importance of Talent

• Top talent on your roster is essential to building a better commercial vehicle that brands want to interact with.
• From Marcus Smith to Alex Dombrandt, how have Harlequins looked to enhance the profile of their star players to build value into the club.
• Is rugby capable of delivering global superstars? When the sport is all about the importance of the team, is there a place for ‘superstar’ personalities?
• Is there concern that the salary cap and spending restrictions placed on English clubs causes the top talent to move abroad or not come to the Premiership in the first place?
• The importance of legacy and ensuring the players appreciate what has gone before them at this historic club.

Financial Management

• Is Laurie a supporter of the salary cap model and why was it introduced in the first place?
• Can the financial challenges experienced by clubs in recent years be purely attributed to spend on the pitch or are there other factors at play?
• How does the salary cap work? What are the budgets and how can they be spent?
• How have Harlequins built the most valuable club in England with the highest revenues? From enhancing fan experience to trusted brand partners.
• What are the financials of the club? Despite performing very well in the existing environment they are still not profitable.

Rugby vs Football

• What did Laurie bring into rugby from his time as Managing Director at Wolves? Where were there direct crossovers and what was the biggest difference?
• What is a better investment? Buying a rugby club or buying a football club?
• What are the differences between owners in rugby and football? How does the business model change?
• Should football have a salary cap?
• Reflecting on the signings of Neves, Jota, and the Wolves team that returned to the Premier League 

Our Partners:

Orreco 

www.orreco.ai

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

Today is the milestone 50th episode and we have a guest to match it. Édourard Mendy is a Champions League and AFCON winner. He won FIFA's ‘The Best’ and UEFA Goalkeeper of the year award in 2021. He holds the record for the joint most clean sheets in a single Champions League season. He went from nearly giving up the football dream in a French job centre with a baby on the way to winning the CL with Chelsea in 7 years. And now he's playing alongside Mahrez, Firmino and Toney at Al-Ahli. 

Away from the pitch, he is building a reputation as a passionate investor looking to translate the success he has achieved on the pitch to help founders build great businesses. As Édou states, the move to Saudi has also been about facilitating the work he can do away from the pitch as well as being part of an exciting new football landscape; ‘it’s not just about football and not just about money’.

This is one of sport’s great stories; a meteoric rise to the top that had to endure countless challenges to achieve Édou’s reality today. From his early days in France to developing football in West Africa, with a big helping of his time at Chelsea, we get a rare insight into the inner workings of a top tier footballer. 

On today’s show we discuss:

Origins of a Champions League Winner:

• How did Mendy get his break in France? What is it like to work your way from the bottom?
• What happened when Édou decided to look at a career outside of football because he wasn’t making it in football?
• You have to be careful who you put your trust in; when agents promise opportunities that don’t materialise.
• The role family and humble beginnings have played in keeping him grounded as success has quickly come to him.
• Signing for Reims and then Rennes which paved the way for his move to Chelsea.

The Chelsea Story:

• From getting a call from goalkeeping coach Christophe Lollichon to eventually signing his contract; the Chelsea transfer story.
• How long does it take for clubs to agree to a transfer? What did Marina Granovskaia say was unique about his move?
• What role did Frank Lampard play in helping Édou establish himself as Chelsea’s number one keeper?
• What happens when a manager changes at a club? From Lampard to Tuchel…
• The inside story of Chelsea’s iconic Champions League win in Porto. Why Tuchel wanted to play on Chelsea’s underdog status.
• From Champions of Europe and the World to the fringes of the squad; where did it go wrong?

Moving to Saudi Arabia and what comes next:

• Why this move is not just about football and not just about money; what are the considerations that influence transfers?
• ‘It is important to feel wanted and I felt that from Al Ahli’. How a conversation with the CEO convinced Édou that this was the club for him.
• What is most exciting about the emerging league and how is the country preparing for it’s World Cup hosting duties?
• Playing in a dream team with Mahrez, Toney and Firmino and the star power of the Saudi League.
• When an athlete becomes an investor; how Édou is building a profile for himself as an investor and what is the value of athletes bringing their expertise to emerging companies?
• How establishing football in West Africa and Senegal in particular is and will always be a key part of his focus.

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

After amazing shows with a number of CEO’s across the football industry, we’re today venturing into the lowest of the English Football League’s with current League Two promotion chasers Port Vale. Matt Hancock has been CEO of this historic club since January. Having been relegated from League One in his first few months in charge, it’s fair to say the learning curve has been steep.

But these are the shows we love to do. It’s proper business, not propped up by the billions of international ownership. Understanding how to run a sustainable company that is not eternally dependent on owner financing while constantly trying to win on the field is so difficult. Then add the fact that almost every decision is reviewed under a microscope generally with the benefit of hindsight, you do sometimes think who would take this on.

But then you remember that alongside these challenges comes the privilege of looking after the thing that can give people their greatest enjoyment. The lower down the football pyramid you go, being a CEO is about building an environment to sustain a community’s most valued asset. This is a compelling reveal on how you do just that.

On today’s show we discuss:

Becoming a CEO in Football:

• How did Matt come to take charge of one of English Football’s oldest clubs?
• From building community to winning on the pitch, what are the key focuses of clubs the lower down the Football League you go?
• How important is the relationship between executive and owner?
• It’s about more than results; why Matt believes his job is to ensure those working at the club know that success can be about more than 3 points on a Saturday. 
• How to ensure you keep level headed, not getting too high on the highs and too low on the lows.

Handling Relegation:

• Port Vale got relegated from League One in the first few months of Matt’s tenure as CEO. How did he make sure the club recovered to build for the new season?
• The importance of a great manager in the lower leagues; why Darren Moore has been crucial to the recent development of Port Vale.
• What attracts players to a club that goes beyond just being paid the most?
• The financial impact of relegation and trying to move away from a reliance on owner funding to ensure sustainability.

Working for the Fans & Community:

• Is it better to over communicate with fans and open yourself up to increased scrutiny or reduce what you share and lose connectivity?
• How Port Vale has become an intrinsic part of its community and the importance of the club to the local area.
• The challenge of ensuring you don’t make decisions based on fan sentiment; how to remain neutral and not be influenced by emotion.
• The role of lifelong Vale fan Robbie Williams!
• Communicating spend away from the pitch on infrastructure and development is important to create an understanding around the need to build value in the ‘business’ of the club.

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

Today we speak to a man who has been in and around football for over 40 years. Mark Bowen played over 400 games at the top of English football for the likes of Tottenham, Norwich and West Ham, before transitioning into management as both a head coach and assistant. For much of his management career he has partnered with Mark Hughes, acting as his assistant manager at Man City, Stoke, Southampton, Fulham and QPR. 

Most recently Mark has spent a number of years with Reading, and is currently going through a delicate process around his exit from the club; a conversation for another time. 

However this is something that we have wanted to do for a long time. Quite a lot of our shows fall into the more serious ‘business of sport’ category. Having got to know Mark, this is someone that has seen the inner workings of clubs transacting at the highest level, and has some incredible stories to tell off the back of it. From being at Man City when they were bought by Sheik Mansour and the Abu Dhabi Group to being in the opposing dugout for QPR when Aguero scored THAT goal, this played to the kid in both of us while emphasising the fact that the business of football isn’t always a smooth process.

Kick back and enjoy some proper tales of signings, sackings, and outrageous transfer bidding.

On today’s show we discuss:

The birth of the new Man City:

• Which players did Sheik Mansour want to sign as a statement transfer when he bought the club?
• How do you integrate a load of new players to form a cohesive team when the money is flowing and budgets are virtually endless.
• The incredible transfer story of signing both Vincent Kompany and Pablo Zabaleta after the sale of one key player, and the conversation he had to have with Kompany when he arrived.
• Lionel Messi for £35m? How the club accidentally bid for one of the greatest players ever.
• Why was Mark Hughes fired by the club with the club flying in both the league and cups, and what happens to managers when they get that call?

Tales from Stoke, Southampton, and QPR:

• Turning Stoke into a top performing Premier League club who were able to attract top European talent like Bojan and Shaqiri.
• Overseeing a QPR team struggling for survival in the League with Joey Barton as captain and Tony Fernandes as owner.
• The Man City title win story…from the QPR dugout: what does Mark attribute that memorable Aguero moment to?
• Moving to Southampton and the challenge of managing top teams when there is an agreement to sell players you want to keep.

Football vs Money:

• Harry Redknapp’s reaction to Mark leaving West Ham to sign for a Japanese club…and the number that persuaded him the offer was too good to turn down.
• How to manage your personal life in football when the team takes you away from your family and home. Is it worth it?
• Is it always about the money, or do players need to be incentivised by other things in and around clubs?
• Where was Mark at his happiest both as a player and a manager?

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

Today we speak to a man who needs little introduction. Zak Brown is the CEO of McLaren Racing, one of Formula One’s most iconic brands and a team currently undergoing a resurgence as it challenges at the top of both the Drivers and Constructors Championships after years of struggling to match the success of Mercedes and Red Bull.

Turning an organisation round and re-establishing a culture of success is no easy task, and Zak has been under no illusion that to reach the top of one of the most competitive and scrutinised sports in the world, you need to be exceptional. 

F1 is a landscape of marginal gains. What does Zak attribute the success of McLaren to this year and how does he plan to build on this to get his two drivers Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri challenging for the Championship in his cars.

We were honoured to be hosted by the amazing McLaren team at their incredible offices for this recording, and we are so grateful to Zak for giving us his time in one of the busiest parts of his calendar as the season draws to a close. I really hope you enjoy hearing from one of sports' top executives. 

On today’s show we discuss:

Finances of F1:

• ‘Every team is worth at least £1bn’. What has made these businesses so valuable and how have they managed to build better performance off better financial structures?
• Profitability in F1 is now something that spreads across the grid rather than being an outcome enjoyed by the lucky few. How has this happened?
• What are the key revenue streams of an F1 team? What sits centrally with the governing body and what can the teams generate individually?
• How does sponsorship work and who would Zak’s dream partner be for McLaren?
• What has the cost cap done for the sport and why was it necessary to introduce it in the first place?

Developing Great Drivers:

• What has made Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri so effective this year and what makes them stand out from the competition?
• Has Oscar Piastri developed quicker than the team expected and how do you integrate a young driver into the setup without exerting too much pressure?
• Can you have two number one drivers? 
• The importance of building respect and parity in the relationship between executive, garage, and driver.
• How much success is attributed to the driver, and how much is the car?

The Importance of People

• Why does Zak attribute much of the success of the team to the culture of the organisation?
• How do you build a great culture? It is something often talked about but hard to execute and maintain?
• What is it about McLaren that makes it such a great place to work? How do you retain staff to ensure continuity in the team?

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

The week we're delighted to welcome Felix Starck to the show. Felix is CEO of Baller League, an alternative to historic sporting competition. New propositions, new formats, new leagues. A lot of conversation we have on the show focuses on how leagues are in need of development and refreshment and subsequently what alternatives could be out there to entice the coveted youth audience rightsholders crave. 

Baller League is this new product. 6 a-side, entertainment driven, quick football, short matches, free to air. It addresses many of the barriers identified in the footballing landscape. It’s revenues are approaching €20m, KSI, Figo, John Terry, ishowspeed all involved, Leagues being created in the UK and US after massively successful launch in Germany…and most impressive? It’s a year old.

Felix is shaking up the sport. He coins it the UFC of football. What does that mean? And how do you ensure this is a sustainable competition not a flash in the pan. A new form of football to sit alongside the traditional game, not detract from it. As Felix says, go and check it out before passing judgement. 

On today’s show:

The UFC of Football:

• Why MMA was a sport in need of dramatic change to maintain its relevance when UFC was created to package a new product and create global icons in the process.
• Sport is increasingly hero driven; you need to create your own stars and not rely on the fandom of current players. How?
• This is not an enemy of football. Where does this competition sit in the current footballing landscape?
• ‘Slow sports are dead sports in the future’. 
• Why Baller League will create a product for women’s football that is tailor made to the qualities of female players.

Baller League - Story so Far:

• How has Felix set up a challenger football league attracting some of the biggest names from sport and entertainment is a year?
• What are the rules of competition? Why is this format what the current attention economy craves?
• How do you become a player in Baller League? From academy to fustsal to professional footballers.
• Owning a franchise; who does Felix want to have as part of the ownership and what is expected if you take a franchise on?
• What are the financials of operating the league? How much does it cost to put on an event? Are the players paid?

Global Expansion:

• The league has had an amazing start to life in Germany. What has worked?
• Establishing a league in the UK and US; the launches are imminent. What goes into launching in a new country? 
• From new sponsors to the best venues, who will be involved and where will it be played?
• Which country is best set for Baller League to thrive?
• Will there be purpose built stadia as Baller establishes itself in new markets? 

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/