MSNBC’s Chris Hayes joins Offline to discuss how our society’s commodification of attention has made us miserable while empowering authoritarians like Donald Trump. Chris’s new book, The Sirens’ Call, explains how humans mistake online engagement for social connection, why the media is beholden to flashy headlines, and why no one can bear being alone with their thoughts. He and Jon discuss how Democrats need to operate in this frenetic environment and examine whether fascism offers a reprieve to people tired of engaging. But first! It’s time for a new edition of the Offline Challenge. Over the next few weeks, Jon and Max will be fortifying their attention spans through a series of focus-building exercises. The goal: stay sane, grounded and committed to what matters most throughout Donald Trump’s second term. Follow along as they put down their phones, touch grass and reclaim control of their attention.

For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected] and include the name of the podcast.