In this episode, hosts David Luy and Maurice Lee return with Dr. Michael Mawson to deepen the discussion on Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s understanding of the church and pastoral ministry. Building on themes from Sanctorum Communio and Life Together, they explore Bonhoeffer’s dialectical view of the church as both flawed and faithful, fractured yet held together in Christ.

Dr. Mawson reflects on Bonhoeffer’s theology of hope, his realism about church life, and how his ecclesiology equips pastors to remain grounded—even amid failure, tension, and the scandal of community. It’s a wide-ranging conversation on the mystery of Christ’s presence in the church, and what that means for ministry today.

Referenced in this episode: The Oxford Handbook of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, edited by Dr. Michael Mawson.

In this episode, hosts David Luy and Maurice Lee sit down with Dr. Michael Mawson to explore Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s striking vision of the church. Drawing from Bonhoeffer’s early work Sanctorum Communio, they unpack how the church can be both a flawed human community and the place where Christ is truly present. From ecclesiology in the 1920s to the tension between sociological and theological claims, this first part sets the stage for a deep dive into one of Bonhoeffer’s most enduring theological commitments.

In this second part of our conversation with Dr. Michael DeJonge, hosts David Luy and Maurice Lee explore how Bonhoeffer's Lutheran foundations shaped his understanding of political life, resistance, and the church's role in society.

Key Topics:

1. Lutheran themes in Bonhoeffer's popular works "Discipleship" and "Life Together"

2. How Bonhoeffer approached the Sermon on the Mount within a Lutheran law/gospel framework

3. The theological path from justification to Bonhoeffer's understanding of the two kingdoms

4. Bonhoeffer's careful distinction between church action and individual Christian resistance

5. Challenging common misunderstandings about Lutheran political theology

6. What Bonhoeffer's approach to tradition can teach pastors today

About our guest: Dr. Michael DeJonge is the James F. Strange Professor of Religious Studies and Chair of the Religious Studies Department at the University of South Florida in Tampa. His books on Bonhoeffer include "Bonhoeffer's Reception of Luther" (Oxford, 2017) and "Bonhoeffer on Resistance" (Oxford, 2018).

Resources mentioned:

1. Bonhoeffer's "Discipleship" (formerly "The Cost of Discipleship")

2. "Life Together" and its emphasis on word and sacrament

3. "The Church and the Jewish Question" with the "spoke in the wheel" metaphor

4. The Lutheran tradition of two kingdoms theology

In this episode of Cardigan and Collar, hosts David Luy and Maurice Lee continue their exploration of how Dietrich Bonhoeffer became a pastor-theologian by examining the Lutheran sources of his theological and pastoral formation with Dr. Michael DeJonge.

Key Topics:

1. How Bonhoeffer approached theology as both an academic and ecclesial discipline

2. Bonhoeffer's distinctive understanding of the church compared to contemporaries like Karl Barth

3. The surprising ways Bonhoeffer critiqued prominent Luther scholars of his time

4. Bonhoeffer's theological innovation in understanding Christ as "person" and "community"

5. How Lutheran theology helped Bonhoeffer navigate post-Kantian philosophical challenges

About our guest: Dr. Michael DeJonge is the James F. Strange Professor of Religious Studies and Chair of the Religious Studies Department at the University of South Florida in Tampa. He has written extensively on Bonhoeffer, including books such as "Bonhoeffer's Theological Formation" (Oxford, 2012), "Bonhoeffer's Reception of Luther" (Oxford, 2017), and "Luther, Bonhoeffer and Public Ethics" (Lexington/Fortress, 2018).

Resources mentioned:

1. Bonhoeffer's "Sanctorum Communio" and "Act and Being"

2. The works of Karl Barth and Karl Hall on Luther

3. Bonhoeffer's "Ethics" and his discussion of two kingdoms vs. two spheres

In this second part of our conversation with Dr. Charles Marsh, we dive deeper into the moments that shaped Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s vocation as a pastor theologian. From Harlem to Rome to a Benedictine monastery in Bavaria, we explore how Bonhoeffer’s encounters with global Christianity—and especially the Black Church in America—inspired his vision of a concrete, lived theology.

Dr. Marsh reflects on Bonhoeffer’s hunger for an embodied faith, his provocative claims about the Confessing Church, and why joy and suffering became central to his discipleship. We also ask: what might Bonhoeffer offer the Church today?

How did Dietrich Bonhoeffer become the theologian and pastor we remember today? In this first part of our conversation with Dr. Charles Marsh, author of Strange Glory: A Life of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, we explore Bonhoeffer’s early intellectual influences, his break with academic theology, and his journey toward a lived, Christ-centered faith. Dr. Marsh shares insights on Bonhoeffer’s upbringing, his experiences abroad, and the decisive moments that shaped his theology.

In this season opener, hosts David Luy and Maurice Lee kick off their exploration of Dietrich Bonhoeffer as a church theologian. They unpack why Bonhoeffer stands out as someone who connects deep theological thinking with practical church ministry. Instead of just explaining concepts, Bonhoeffer shows us what this connection looks like in action.

David and Maurice discuss what we gain from studying exemplary figures, the challenges of reading selectively, and preview the impressive lineup of Bonhoeffer experts joining them this season. Tune in as they begin exploring how Bonhoeffer's commitment to the church can inspire both theologians and pastors today.

In our final episode of the season, Pastor Maurice Lee and Dr. David Luy record in-person at the North American Lutheran Seminary Center in Ambridge, Pennsylvania. Together, they reflect on the journey of exploring catechesis and the rich insights gained from their many conversations this season.

 www.thenals.org/podcast⁠

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To learn more about the North American Lutheran Seminary, visit ⁠www.thenals.org

In this episode, we are joined by the Rev. Dawn Rister, Pastor of St. Paul Lutheran Church in Pomaria, South Carolina, to discuss catechesis and its role in building vibrant faith communities. Pastor Rister shares her unique journey from teacher and coach to pastor, exploring how authentic engagement, relational teaching, and hands-on catechesis can transform both individuals and congregations. Listen in as we dive into the ways liturgy, the creeds, and even community service teach and reinforce the Gospel in our communities.

⁠www.thenals.org/podcast⁠⁠

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To learn more about the North American Lutheran Seminary, visit ⁠⁠www.thenals.org

In this episode we are joined by Pastor Teresa Peters, Director of Youth & Family Ministry for the North American Lutheran Church (NALC). Pastor Peters shares her experiences, insights, and practical advice for how churches today can effectively minister to young people, emphasizing relationship-building, belonging, and possible approaches to catechesis. Whether you’re a pastor, youth leader, or a parent, this conversation offers valuable perspectives on nurturing faith across all ages.

www.thenals.org/podcast⁠

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Additional Resources

To learn more about the North American Lutheran Seminary, visit ⁠www.thenals.org