Carter Wilson's Making It Up

“I figured out at some point along the way that I was happier trying and failing than I was not trying at all.” — Clémence Michallon 

Clémence Michallon is an author and a journalist. Her debut thriller The Quiet Tenant was published in June 2023 and is an international bestseller. Her thriller Our Last Resort came out in July 2025. She was a staff writer at The Independent for five years, and is now a freelance journalist. Her work has appeared in The New York Times Book Review, Time Magazine, Cosmopolitan UK, and more. Clémence graduated from Sciences Po in Paris. She studied journalism at City University of London and received a master’s in Journalism from Columbia University. 

Among other things, Clémence and Carter discuss forcing yourself to be bored to spark creativity, the benefits of having training in journalism, and why they never write the words “The End.” At the end of their conversation, they make up a creepy story using a line from Tana French’s The Searcher. 

“You want to bond with the reader, you know? And you want to take the reader and basically say to the reader, I'm about to tell you a story now. You're not gonna believe this, but bear with me, okay? And once you've established trust with the reader, you can go pretty far.” — Joseph Finder 

Joseph Finder is the New York Times bestselling author of 17 suspense novels. His books have won numerous awards, including the Strand Critics Award for Best Novel, the International Thriller Writers Award for Best Novel and the Barry Award for Best Thriller. The Boston Globe has called him a “master of the modern thriller.”  Two of his novels have been made into major motion pictures, including High Crimes, adapted into the hit 2002 movie starring Ashley Judd and Morgan Freeman; and Paranoia, the 2013 film starring Harrison Ford, Gary Oldman, and Liam Hemsworth. 

Among other things, Joe and Carter discuss writing about what you want to know, how changes in the publishing industry have made things harder for debut authors, and getting blurbed by Stephen King. At the end of their conversation, they make up a tense story using a line from Stephen King’s Just After Sunset. 

“I've loved the actual act of writing. You know, I meet a lot of people who wanna be writers. I meet very few who wanna write. I always wanted to write.” — Gregg Hurwitz 

Gregg Hurwitz is the New York Times #1 internationally bestselling author of 27 thrillers including the Orphan X series. His novels have won numerous literary awards and have been published in 33 languages. Gregg currently serves as the Co-President of International Thriller Writers (ITW). Additionally, he’s written screenplays and television scripts for many of the major studios and networks and is an award-winning documentary producer. Gregg has also written comics for AWA, DC, and Marvel. He's penned dozens of op eds and pieces for The Wall Street Journal, The Guardian, and others. He also helped write the opening ceremony of the 2022 World Cup.

Among other things, Gregg and Carter discuss viewing writing as a compulsion, Gregg’s experiences getting published while in college, and learning who to trust when receiving critique and feedback. At the end of their conversation, they make up a suspenseful story using a line from Joseph Heller’s Catch-22. 

Episode 212 of Making It Up is out and features Wendy Walker, the bestselling author of psychological thrillers including Don’t Look for Me, The Night Before, and All Is Not Forgotten, as well as multiple Audible Originals. Her latest book, Blade, draws from her past as a competitive figure skater and marks a personal and creative turning point in her career. Before writing full-time, Wendy practiced law and raised her three sons.

Among other things, Wendy and I discuss what it means to finally write the story that’s been living inside you for years, how immersive storytelling is changing the audiobook landscape, and why hiring help as an author isn’t a luxury—it’s a strategy. We also talk about vulnerability in creative marketing, the balance of truth and fiction, and how her latest work came together in a blur of sound design, stress, and storytelling. At the end of our conversation, we create a story about furries using a sentence from a Karin Slaughter novel. 

“If you're not exploring, if you're not really kind of pushing limits, then you really have to ask yourself, well, what am I doing here? Like, this isn't accounting, you know what I mean? It's creative writing.” —Matthew Sullivan 

Matthew Sullivan is the author of Midnight at the Bright Ideas Bookstore, an Indie Next Pick, B&N Discover pick, a GoodReads Choice Award finalist, and winner of the Colorado Book Award. He received his MFA from the University of Idaho and has been a resident writer at Yaddo, Centrum, and the Vermont Studio Center. His short stories have been awarded the Robert Olen Butler Fiction Prize and the Florida Review Editors' Award for Fiction. His writing has been featured in the New York Times Modern Love column and The Daily Beast, amongst others. 

Among other things, Matthew and Carter discuss alcohol and writing, writing weird and unconventional novels, and how the unpredictability of success as an author makes you a better writer. At the end of their conversation, they make up a menacing story using a line from Abbott Kahler’s Where You End.

“Writer’s block is a myth. It’s your brain lying to you. Chefs don’t have chef’s block.” —Tod Goldberg 

Tod Goldberg is a New York Times bestselling author of sixteen books, including the Gangsterland quartet, which have won/been a finalist for the Hammett Prize, the International Thriller of the Year and many more. His short fiction and essays appear widely and have been selected in Best American Mystery & Suspense and Best American Essays. He is a Professor of Creative Writing at the University of California, Riverside where he founded and directs the Low Residency MFA in Creative Writing & Writing for the Performing Arts. 

Among other things, Tod and Carter discuss coming from a family of writers, observations from running a MFA program, and writing from a place of absurdity rather than darkness. At the end of their conversation, they make up a hilarious story using a line from Stephen King’s Everything’s Eventual.

“I’ve just always been drawn to dark stuff. I’m really fascinated by why people do the things that they do—particularly bad things.” —Jennifer Fawcett 

Jennifer Fawcett is an author, actor, and playwright. She grew up in Canada and spent many years in theatre there before moving to the US. She has an MFA from the Iowa Playwrights Workshop and was a founding member of Working Group Theatre. Her work has been produced in regional theaters across the US and UK. Her play Apples in Winter won the National New Play Network Smith Prize and the Susan Glaspell Award. She has written two novels, including Beneath the Stairs and Keep This for Me.

Among other things, Jennifer and Carter discuss making professional connections with other authors, maintaining a relationship with your editor, and advocating for yourself to your publishing team. At the end of their conversation, they make up a descriptive story using a line from Audrey Lee’s The Mechanics of Memory. 

“The idea that you could be at the whim of something as mercurial as a muse doesn’t work if you also have to show up for a job and a family and kids.” —Danielle Girard 

Danielle Girard is the USA Today and Amazon #1 bestselling author of sixteen novels. Her books have won the Barry Award, the Romantic Times Reviewers’ Choice Award, and more. In addition, two of her titles have been optioned for screen. Her next thriller, Pinky Swear, will be on February 24, 2026. Danielle is also the creator and host of the Killer Women podcast, where she interviews the women who write today’s best crime fiction. 

Among other things, Danielle and Carter discuss writing first-person present tense, Danielle going back to get her MFA after four published books, and the challenge with writing characters who are demographically different from you. At the end of their conversation, they make up a mysterious story using a line from Wendy Walker’s Blade. 

“You're really investing in yourself. And when I actually do get a check, I'm like—wait, I got paid for this one?” —Courtney Psak 

Courtney Psak is the author of two novels, and her third, The Hostess, is being released in April 2026. She graduated with a degree in Communications and Journalism with a master’s degree in Publishing. She is a member of the Crime Writers' Association, International Thriller Writers, Sisters in Crime and a board member for the Mystery Writers of America.

Among other things, Courtney and Carter discuss Courtney’s detailed outlining and writing process, having a UK publisher, and how mother-in-laws make great unreliable narrators. At the end of their conversation, they make up a gripping story using a line from Chris Pavone’s The Doorman. 

“Don’t wait for chapter five to be good. Be good immediately.” —Chris Pavone 

Chris Pavone is an international thriller author whose novels include THE EXPATS, winner of both the Edgar and Anthony Awards; the instant bestseller TWO NIGHTS IN LISBON; and THE DOORMAN, a New York Times Notable Book of 2025. His novels have appeared on all the major bestseller lists and have won or been shortlisted for Edgar, Anthony, Strand, Macavity, and ThrillerFest awards, among others. Chris worked in publishing for nearly two decades and ghost-wrote a couple of nonfiction books. 

Among other things, Chris and Carter discuss working in publishing in New York City in the early 90s, why the first page of your manuscript is so important, and how a move to Luxembourg inspired Chris’s first novel. At the end of their conversation, they make up an emotional story using a line from Jeffrey Konvitz’s The Circus of Satan.