The Pew Charitable Trusts has released a long-awaited policy playbook for scaling distributed energy resources (DERs) across the United States. In this episode, host Elisa Wood sits down with the two co-chairs of the Pew DER Advisory Council — Audrey Zibelman and Pat Wood III — to unpack what the playbook says, why DER deployment has stalled despite a clear business case, and what policymakers can do right now to change the trajectory.

The conversation moves from high-level regulatory philosophy to the practical mechanics of utility incentive design, FERC jurisdiction, virtual power plants, and the pros and cons of America's 50-state laboratory approach to energy regulation. Both guests bring decades of first-hand experience reshaping the grid — Zibelman from New York's REV framework and Australia's national DER strategy, Wood from opening the Texas and wholesale power markets.