Can You Run A Grid Without Fossil Fuels? 

"Yes," says Anders Lindberg, President of Energy and Executive VP at Wärtsilä, on this week's episode of Cleaning Up. It'll just cost €65 trillion extra by 2050. 

Anders' team at Wärtsilä has recently published its Crossroads to Net Zero report, which argues that keeping a little bit of flexible generation on the grid will save huge amounts of money as the globe strives for net zero, while also speeding up the transition to renewables. The argument centres on what to do with the last few percent of power supply, and what forms of generation need to be built to ensure consistent electricity supply and prevent black or brown outs.

Perhaps unsurprisingly for a gas engine manufacturer, Wärtsilä's report makes the case that gas should provide the last few percentage points of electricity generation. Michael Liebreich puts that claim to the test. 

Discover more:

• Wärtsilä's Crossroads to Net Zero report: https://www.wartsila.com/energy/towards-100-renewable-energy/choosing-the-optimal-pathway-for-energy-transition
• Can Germany’s Gas Giant Go Green? Ep206: Michael Lewis - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOD-f6uSPgc
• Q&A: What we do – and do not – know about the blackout in Spain and Portugal — https://www.carbonbrief.org/qa-what-we-do-and-do-not-know-about-the-blackout-in-spain-and-portugal/
• ENTSO-E expert panel initiates the investigation into the causes of Iberian blackout: https://www.entsoe.eu/news/2025/05/09/entso-e-expert-panel-initiates-the-investigation-into-the-causes-of-iberian-blackout

Leadership Circle: 

Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.

Geothermal seems to have found new favour under Donald Trump's presidency, but can it ever live up to its potential? Will the oil and gas industry reinvent itself before becoming obsolete? And how might geothermal energy change the global energy landscape?

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington talks to Jamie Beard, founder of Project InnerSpace, about why geothermal energy has never lived up to its hype, and whether it has the potential do so.  Currently generating less than 1% of global energy, Beard believes that geothermal could become a game-changing technology that can leverage existing drilling expertise from the oil and gas sector to provide 24/7 energy.

Beard breaks down the technical and economic challenges facing geothermal energy, exploring its potential to provide stable, clean power and heat across different global regions. From the United States to India, she outlines how next-generation geothermal technologies could offer a more consistent renewable energy solution.

This conversation was recorded live at Geothermal House, as part of San Francisco Climate week.

Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.

Discover More:
• The Sierra Leone Special: https://youtu.be/z-5QjSfy2SM
• Project InnerSpace: https://projectinnerspace.org/
• Brony’s episode with Cindy Taff of Sage Geothermal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3I2fn9_atE
• The Department of Energy’s Next-Generation Geothermal Power Commercial Liftoff: https://liftoff.energy.gov/next-generation-geothermal-power/

When Russia unleashed its illegal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, gas prices in Europe spiked by a factor of 10, driving a wave of bankruptcies and restructurings of European energy companies. Uniper was one of those. 

Uniper is one of Germany's largest energy companies. It is active across more than 40 countries and has 19.5 GW of power generation capacity to its name. It was one of the funders of the built-but-never-used Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline that connects Russia to Germany and, for most of its history, was heavily reliant on Russian gas. 

So when the gas taps from Russia were turned off, Uniper reported losses of $40 billion — the highest losses in German corporate history — and was subsequently nationalised by the German government. The company has since returned to profitability under its new CEO, Michael Lewis, our guest this week on Cleaning Up. 

Michael Lewis joins Michael Liebreich to discuss the company's rise from the ashes, and how it plans to reach its climate targets and overcome the dunkelflaute.

Leadership Circle: 
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. 

More from Cleaning Up:

• The Sierra Leone documentary: https://youtu.be/z-5QjSfy2SM
• Ep164 — Leonhard Birnbaum, CEO of EON: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa-DHuPNEDg
• Episode 175 — Greg Jackson, CEO of Octopus Energy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl-cRh35Hm4
• Episode 190 — Lord Adair Turner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxTngGxpeW0
  
   

In 100 short days, the world has transformed. Since the reelection of President Donald Trump, US federal climate policy has largely been abandoned, with the government seeking to reopen coal-fired power plants and lower environmental standards. 

An escalating trade war and global tariffs has sent the rest of the world reeling and threatened the global financial system with collapse. China has come under particular fire, but the US has also targeted its closest allies and neighbours — Canada, Mexico and the EU — with tariffs. 

Any sense of certainty has been thrown out of the window as a more inward looking US seeks to reshape the global order. So what does all this mean for the energy transition, and plans to reach net-zero? Michael Liebreich and Baroness Bryony Worthington join forces for the opening episode of Season 15 of Cleaning Up to discuss. 

Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. 

Discover more: 

• Cleaning Up’s Sierra Leone Documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-5QjSfy2SM
• Cleaning Up’s interview with Mark Carney: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtA5ufMzKAU
• Ember’s Global Electricity Review: https://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/global-electricity-review-2025/
• Michael’s AI Update on Deepseek: https://mliebreich.substack.com/p/ai-data-centre-power-and-glory-an
• Michael’s retreat inside an old millhouse: https://lemoulindabondance.com/

In Sierra Leone, a 20-minute power cut can be the difference between life and death for newborn babies. 

In 2013, an extraordinary doctor called Dr Niall Conroy set up a neonatal intensive care unit at the Bo Government Hospital, in Sierra Leone's second largest city, and set about training the staff to give the best possible care to the desperately vulnerable babies who were admitted. But there was one problem he couldn't solve: electricity. 

Babies need warmth, and that means electrically powered incubators, and they need oxygen, which means oxygen separators, and the nurses need light in order to work. However in Sierra Leone, there are power cuts almost daily. They can be a few minutes, they can be hours, or they can last days. 

In 2017, Michael Liebreich heard about this problem and put together a group of friends and supporters to create Project Bo. Since then, the neonatal intensive care unit has had a solar system and batteries installed, and hundreds of babies’ lives have been saved due to a reliable electricity supply. 

Eight years on, Michael visits Project Bo for the first time to see how the system is performing, meet the medical professionals working there, and find out if there's anything else that we can do to improve it.

Watch on YouTube:

Find the full documentary on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMxJzLNc214

Help Support Project Bo:

• More About Project Bo: https://www.projectbo.org/
• Our Campaign to Raise $100,000: https://www.gofundme.com/f/projectbo

Other Organisations Electrifying Healthcare:

• Eki Foundation ⁠⁠https://fundacioneki.org/en/
• Don Bosco Solar School In Bo⁠: ⁠⁠⁠https://donboscosolar.org/
• Powering Healthcare Hub (Sustainable Energy for All): https://www.seforall.org/programmes/powering-healthcare-hub
• We Care Solar: https://wecaresolar.org/
• Resilient Power | Power for Health: https://www.directrelief.org/issue/resilient-power
• Kids Operating Room: https://www.kidsor.org/

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. 

Credits:

• Presented by Michael Liebreich
• Written by Oscar Boyd & Michael Liebreich
• Filmed, Produced & Edited by Oscar Boyd
• Graphics by Jamie Oliver
• Logistics: Jo Jagger & Alexandra McInerney
• Special thanks to Dr Niall Conroy, Nurse Juliana Conteh, Nurse Columbia Samuella Bull, Mohammed Kargbo, as well as to the team at Bo Government Hospital, and the mothers who spoke with us for this documentary.

Google has one of the most ambitious climate targets in the tech world, but what happens if it falls short of its goals? How does the company balance innovation with environmental responsibility? And can AI really help reduce emissions? 

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Kate Brandt, Google's Chief Sustainability Officer, to unpack these critical questions. Brandt offers an insider's view of how one of the world's most influential companies is tackling the climate crisis, from tackling its own emissions to the impact of misinformation on its platform. Brandt has a fascinating background, having spent time in both the Pentagon, and advising President Obama on energy security and sustainability issues. In her current role, she oversees the team working to reduce Google's environmental impact. 

Google has set itself an ambitious company-wide climate goal of halving their 2019 emissions by 2030 but their latest sustainability report showed that they were off track, as the company has grown and increased their investment in energy-hungry artificial intelligence. As providers of curated information at a global scale, Google has a unique intersection with the climate problem. Primarily, their impact comes from the electricity they buy, but they're also able to guide customers' decisions through the provision of information and through their parent company Alphabet. 

They've made some pretty bold investments in innovative, disruptive companies, so measuring their impact is arguably more than the sum of their Scope 1, 2 and 3 emissions. Nevertheless, missing a clear target can't be very comfortable. Brandt discusses the company’s ambitious yet challenging emissions reduction targets, the transformative potential of AI in environmental solutions, and the innovative clean technologies that might just help us reimagine our energy future. 

From predicting floods and reducing aircraft emissions, to molten salt batteries and grid optimization technologies, this conversation reveals how Google thinks about innovation and the climate.

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. 

Go deeper:

• 2024 Environmental Report - Google Sustainability
• Google X
• How AI Can Speed-Up Climate Action | BCG
• The Year Energy Woke Up To AI — Audioblog 14: Generative AI – The Power and the Glory
• Malta Inc.

The UK is an extraordinary case study in how to cut greenhouse gas pollution successfully. Since 1990, the country has more than halved its greenhouse gas emissions, while the economy has grown by over 80%. 

The Climate Change Act, passed in 2008, has helped steer the UK towards its net-zero goals, setting five yearly carbon budgets that are specifically designed to be ambitious but flexible, with lots of options available to the government to meet the targets. 

Joining this week’s episode of Cleaning Up is Emma Pinchbeck, the new CEO of the Climate Change Committee (CCC), the organisation which advises the government on the route it should take to net zero. 

Emma spent close to a decade leading the UK’s energy sector trade association, and is now responsible for producing advice on the UK's final three carbon budgets. In February, the CCC published the seventh carbon budget, which covers the period centred around the year 2040. 

Emma joins Bryony Worthington to talk about the progress the UK is making in meeting its carbon targets, the challenges ahead, and why it's so important the UK holds the course, even if others have chosen to abandon their climate ambitions.

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. 

Links:

• The 7th Carbon Budget: https://www.theccc.org.uk/publication/the-seventh-carbon-budget/
• Emma’s previous appearance on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/66flrmMEmso

How does Europe get cheap energy again? Are climate goals at odds with the need to remain economically competitive? Are we about to see an empowered and emboldened Europe, ready to take on China and the US?

Barely five years into the 2020s, this decade is already shaping up to be one of the most turbulent since the Second World War. As we record this episode, the US has just slapped 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum, prompting swift retaliation from Europe and Canada.

The energy landscape is just as volatile. While the US seems set on spending the next four years as a semi-rogue petrostate—acting as if climate change were an afterthought—China is seizing the moment. It’s doubling down on EVs and electrification at home, tightening its grip on clean energy supply chains, and dominating global exports of solar panels, batteries, EVs, wind turbines, and even cables. In doing so, Beijing is cementing its status as the world’s premier electro-state.

This leaves Europe at a crossroads. How does the EU tackle sky-high energy prices while reducing its reliance on US LNG and Chinese clean tech? Can it craft a compelling narrative to counter the rising tide of populism that’s circling ever closer to the Berlaymont building in Brussels?

To help us unpack these critical questions, we’re joined by Nikos Tsafos, Greece’s recently promoted Deputy Energy Minister. His portfolio spans energy and emissions, and he collaborates with policymakers across transport and industry—not just in Greece, but throughout the EU.

Thank you to Nikos Tsafos for providing the graphs showing Greece’s energy transition.

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. 

Links:

• Nikos Tsafos' Website: https://nikostsafos.com
• Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis’ letter to the President of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen regarding the EU energy market: https://www.primeminister.gr/en/2024/09/13/34887
• Energy System of Greece: https://www.iea.org/countries/greece
• Yanis Varoufakis: Power, Markets & Power Markets - Ep104: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLbm8fg08hc
• Audioblog 14: Generative AI – The Power and the Glory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwZ2iNh133A

As the U.S. swings a budgetary axe at the federal government, one of the biggest casualties is climate science. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) faces a brutal 20% workforce reduction—jeopardizing critical research just when we need it most. So, what’s really at stake? And is Donald Trump Making America Dumb Again?

This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington takes us deep inside the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, where scientists are on the front lines of tracking our planet’s most urgent environmental challenges.

Meet Ralph Keeling, the scientist carrying forward his father’s legendary legacy—the Keeling Curve, the definitive record of our atmosphere’s rising carbon dioxide levels. His decades of meticulous measurements lay bare the stark truth about climate change and why these long-term observations are more vital now than ever.

And that’s not all. We also sit down with Professor Ray Weiss, the atmospheric detective who played a key role in saving the ozone layer. His work helped drive the Montreal Protocol—one of humanity’s greatest environmental victories.

With climate science under attack, what lessons can we learn from past successes? And what happens if we stop listening to the data?

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. 

Links:

• Scripps Institution of Oceanography: https://scripps.ucsd.edu/
• The Keeling Curve: https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/
• The Keeling Curve Foundation: https://www.keelingcurve.org/
• AGAGE (The Advanced Global Atmospheric Gases Experiment): https://www-air.larc.nasa.gov/missions/agage/
• History of the Montreal Protocal: https://www.unep.org/ozonaction/who-we-are/about-montreal-protocol

In February, Germany elected a new government. Friedrich Merz emerged as the new leader, but what are his energy and climate policies, and will Germany remain a climate leader in Europe and beyond?

Joining Cleaning Up this week is Patrick Graichen, a former Energy and Climate minister in the last government, representing the Green Party. Prior to entering government, Patrick ran the think tank Agora Energiewende, working on energy from 2001 to 2012. With his deep expertise Patrick offers unique insights into the evolving political landscape and its potential impact on Germany, Europe, and beyond. 

Patrick has witnessed how shifting public opinion can stall progress, and was responsible for a highly contested policy to phase out gas boilers and phase in heat pumps, which ultimately caused him to quit government. Bryony Worthington asks Patrick what he learned from that phase, and digs into the big questions surrounding the German car industry, nuclear power and the future of gas. 

Leadership Circle

Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. 

Links

• Agora Energiewende:  https://www.agora-energiewende.org
• Patrick's Previous Appearance on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/MBCX7aZcRWI 
• Episode 154 with Kensa CEO, Tamsin Lishman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TpHa-uU6lc