Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

The world is facing a new era of geopolitical instability, rising energy costs and declining development finance. For many countries, access to reliable, affordable energy is no longer just an economic priority, it is a question of security.

Recorded in New York during the United Nations General Assembly and Climate Week, this episode of Cleaning Up sees guest host Ana Rovzar, Chief of Staff at the Global Renewables Alliance, speak with Alexander De Croo, former Prime Minister of Belgium and now Administrator of the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP).

They explore how renewable energy can reduce dependence on volatile fossil fuel markets, how decentralised energy systems can strengthen resilience, and what Ukraine’s experience reveals about protecting critical energy infrastructure. The conversation also examines how to attract investment in grids and clean energy, the decline in development assistance, and AI’s potential to accelerate progress.

Topics covered in this episode:

• Energy security as national security
• Renewables and fossil fuel dependence
• Financing the global energy transition
• Ukraine's decentralised energy reconstruction
• Why grids are holding back progress
• De-risking investment in emerging markets
• Turning climate targets into action
• AI's potential to accelerate development

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links:

• Alexander De Croo’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexanderdecroo/ 
• Ana Rovzar’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ana-rovzar-2546b149/ 
• Achim Steiner on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2prrV1dPSUI 
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ 
• Michael Liebreich’s Pragmatic Climate Reset:  https://about.bnef.com/insights/clean-energy/liebreich-the-pragmatic-climate-reset-part-i/

Acronyms:

• UNDP: United Nations Development Programme
• UNGA: United Nations General Assembly
• UNEP: United Nations Environmental Programme
• ODA: Official Development Assistance
• SDG: Sustainable Development Goal
• OECD: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development

Chapters:

• 00:00 Intro
• 04:56 UNDP’s Mission
• 07:11 Rethinking Development
• 14:19 Energy Security
• 17:39 Grids and Resilience
• 25:52 From Ambition to Action
• 28:23 Financing the Transition
• 36:44 Development and Security
• 41:27 De-risking Investment
• 45:05 UN Funding
• 50:06 AI and Development
• 57:03 Outro

It's been over four and a half years since Russia unleashed its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and still the war shows no sign of stopping. This week on Cleaning Up, we launch a new Deep Dive looking at Ukraine and how its people and energy systems cope through the war.

In this first episode, Michael Liebreich travels to Kyiv to find out what is happening on the ground. How are people coping with these desperate and difficult circumstances? How is the energy system coping? What can we in the international community do to help? And what do we need to learn from Ukraine's energy workers, how have they managed to keep the lights on?

In Kyiv, Michael meets Oleksandr Tolokonnikov, Deputy Head of the Kherson Regional Military Administration, to find out how a region on the frontlines is coping with constant bombardment from Russian drones and missiles. He also speaks with Sorina Seitvelieva and Emine Emirsalieva, co-owners of Musafir, a Crimean Tatar restaurant that’s become known as a resilience hub, keeping people fed and warm during winter. And he ventures to an electricity substation under renovation, where he is shown around Oleksandr Kozhukhar, head of the high-voltage network operations department at DTEK Kyiv Grids. Oleksandr tells Michael how he keeps his team safe as they repair Kyiv’s battered electricity system, and why it’s so dangerous being an energy worker in Ukraine.  

From backup generators and emergency repairs to the challenges of protecting critical infrastructure from drones and missiles, the episode explores what resilience looks like in practice. It also asks what the rest of the world can learn from Ukraine’s experience, and what support is needed as the country prepares for another winter of war.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• Energy workers repairing infrastructure under fire
• Preparing Ukraine’s energy system for winter
• What life is like under constant drone attacks
• Kherson’s fight to survive, and why civilians refuse to leave
• How local businesses are coping with damaged energy infrastructure

Thanks to all those who made this episode possible. In particular, Imogen Payter, Heather Buchanan and UK Friends of Ukraine, who've led over 30 parliamentary trips to Kyiv. Gary Edwards and the team at Frontier Global for keeping us safe. Special mention goes to Dominic Culverwell at the Kyiv Independent and Maria Vlokh for her help with translation. Jo Jagger for making sure it happened, the rest of the Cleaning Up team and our Leadership Circle. And to Oscar Boyd, who produced, filmed and edited this episode.

Leadership Circle

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links

• Oleksandr Tolokonnikov’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oleksandr-tolokonnikov/   
• Unbreakable Kherson book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unbreakable-Kherson-Ukrainian-Wartime-Resilience/dp/B0H6CYRFH7 
• DTEK Group: https://dtek.com/en/ 
• Musafir restaurant: https://www.musafir.com.ua/en/
• UK Friends of Ukraine: https://friendsofukraine.uk/ 
• Kyiv Independent: https://kyivindependent.com/
• Sign up to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com
• “мета ”: Ukrainian meaning goal/purpose/aim

Chapters

• 00:00 Intro
• 01:40 Journey Into Ukraine
• 04:15 Life During War
• 05:55 The Kherson Frontline
• 09:26 Community Resilience
• 12:38 Preparing For Winter
• 13:31 Energy Security Lessons
• 15:04 The Drone Warfare Threat
• 19:03 Life In Kyiv
• 20:40 Musafir Restaurant
• 29:45 Keeping Ukraine Powered
• 35:35 Lessons For Europe
• 37:49 Outro

There's an old joke that energy from nuclear fusion is 30 years away and always will be. For many decades, the industry did little to spoil the fun, running mammoth and unwieldy research projects, hoovering up a few billion dollars every science funding cycle and announcing breakthroughs that were scientifically interesting, but did little to move us towards actual production of electricity.

Then three things happened. First, perhaps emboldened by Elon Musk's successful disruption of the space industry with SpaceX, a bunch of wealthy investors started to invest in much nimbler startups. Second, in December 2022, the National Ignition Facility at the US's Lawrence Livermore National Lab announced that it had finally got more energy out of a fusion experiment than it had put in. And third, AI exploded on the scene, offering dramatic acceleration in everything. These developments have turned the slow-moving world of fusion on its head.

Over $14 billion has now flowed into fusion startups, and that is on top of the tens of billions already committed to national and international programs, like the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) in France, the UK's Spherical Tokamak for Energy Production (STEP) and a variety of US national labs. This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with the director of one of those labs.

Professor Sir Steven Cowley has been entrusted with leading one of the jewels in the US's scientific crown. He has dedicated his academic career to trying to make fusion energy work, and he's been known to joke that he hopes it does so before he dies.

Michael and Steven discuss the breakthrough experiments that have shown fusion is possible, why getting from a successful experiment to a commercial power station is such a huge leap, and whether fusion can ever deliver affordable, dispatchable electricity. Steven puts forward the idea that fusion might have a Theranos moment, where over-promises in the industry come back to bite.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• How fusion actually works
• From experiments to electricity
• Laser versus magnetic fusion
• The commercial fusion challenge
• How AI can transform fusion research
• Fusion versus renewables and batteries

Leadership Circle

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links:

• Steven's TED Talk from 2009: https://www.ted.com/talks/steven_cowley_fusion_is_energy_s_future 
• Steven’s talk at IPAM 2026: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USPd6zvA8pk  
• Steven's talk at SOSV Steven’s talk at DeepTech Live, 2026: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-kb3784BPY
• Princeton Plasma Physics Lab: https://www.pppl.gov/   
• Hax Plasma Forge Incubator: https://hax.co/
• Aneeqa Khan on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhEoMd7DEho 
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ 

Acronyms:

• ITER: International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor 
• STEP: Spherical Tokamak for Energy Production
• JET: Joint European Torus
• TFTR: Tokamak Fusion Test Reactor 
• DOE: Department of Energy (US)
• FLiBe: Fluoride Lithium Beryllium
• NIF: National Ignition Facility  

Chapters:

• 00:00 Intro
• 03:24 Career in fusion
• 06:39 Commercial fusion
• 10:26 Laser fusion
• 18:40 Breeding tritium
• 23:33 Fusion startups
• 25:24 Laser versus magnets
• 29:21 Magnetic fusion
• 35:35 Reactor optimisation
• 40:35 AI controls fusion
• 44:52 Spherical tokamaks
• 46:33 Reversed-field fusion
• 49:24 Private fusion
• 53:07 Fusion economics
• 56:30 The future
• 57:14 Outro

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington is joined by Peter Cox, Professor of Climate System Dynamics at the University of Exeter and Director of the Global Systems Institute. A former lead author of the IPCC climate reports, Peter has spent decades studying the complex feedbacks between the climate, carbon cycle and natural world.

They explore why the Earth is reflecting less sunlight back into space, the growing Earth energy imbalance, climate sensitivity, tipping points in the Amazon and Arctic, and whether solar radiation modification should remain taboo.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• Why the Earth is darkening
• Is global warming accelerating?
• The Earth’s energy imbalance
• Climate sensitivity and feedbacks
• Amazon and Arctic tipping points
• The hidden cooling from pollution
• Geoengineering the planet
• Positive clean energy tipping points

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links:

• Professor Peter Cox’s bio: https://experts.exeter.ac.uk/962-peter-cox/about 
• Professor Cox’s publications: https://experts.exeter.ac.uk/962-peter-cox/publications 
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com

Acronyms:

• IPCC: Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
• CMIP6: Coupled Model Intercomparison Project 6
• CERES: Clouds and the Earth's Radiant Energy System
• ARIA: Advanced Research and Invention Agency 
• SO2: Sulphur Dioxide
• RCP8.5: Representative Concentration Pathway 8.5
• SSP5-85: Shared Socioeconomic Pathway 5 - Radiative Forcing 8.5
• IAM: Integrated Assessment Model
• AMOC: Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation
• PV: Photovoltaics
• SRM: Solar Radiation Modification

Chapters

• 00:00 Coming Up
• 01:08 Professor Peter Cox
• 03:40 Climate System Modelling
• 07:36 Climate Tipping Points
• 17:04 Accelerating Global Warming
• 18:57 Earth’s Energy Imbalance
• 22:13 The Darkening Planet
• 37:59 Rethinking Climate Scenarios
• 45:59 Positive Tipping Points
• 52:24 Geoengineering The Planet 
• 01:05:14 Outro

Around two-thirds of the energy we put into today’s energy system ends up as rejected heat. So are we measuring the energy transition all wrong?

Professor Jan Rosenow joins Michael Liebreich to unpack the “primary energy fallacy”: why focusing on the energy going into the system can obscure the useful energy we actually get out.

They explore why electrification can dramatically reduce energy demand, and what genuine systems thinking means for efficiency, waste heat and infrastructure. They also examine hydrogen versus electrification, including Jan’s review of more than 60 independent studies on hydrogen for heating, why hydrogen continues to attract support despite its disadvantages in many end uses, and how incumbent industries resist technological change.

Key topics discussed:

• The primary energy fallacy 
• Why useful energy matters
• The hidden inefficiency of fossil fuels
• Electrification and shrinking energy demand
• Rethinking energy efficiency through systems thinking
• Making better use of waste heat
• Why energy statistics can misrepresent the transition
• Hydrogen vs electrification for heating
• Why incumbent technologies resist change

Leadership Circle

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links:

• Jan Rosenow’s bio: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/find-an-expert/professor-jan-rosenow 
• Jan Rosenow’s Substack: https://janrosenow.substack.com/ 
• Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Sankey Diagram: https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/sites/flowcharts/files/2026-08/2024-us-energy-flowchart-homepage.jpg 
• Michael Liebreich’s “The Five Superheroes Of The Transition” article: https://about.bnef.com/insights/clean-energy/liebreich-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-ii-easier/ 
• Our World In Data Energy Consumption Chart: https://ourworldindata.org/energy-production-consumption 
• Innovation and Its Enemies: Why People Resist New Technologies book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Innovation-Its-Enemies-People-Technologies/dp/019046703 
• Jonathan Maxwell on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcN3Bqq8ehA 
• Rob Dunn on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juAyLAUmU3w
• Jorgo Chatzimarkakis on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NCiEhprSOc 
• Subscribe to Cleaning Up’s newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ 

Acronyms:

• LNG: Liquefied Natural Gas
• IEA: International Energy Agency, 
• EIA: Energy Information Administration.
• IIASA: International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis
• OECD: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development

Chapters:

• 00:00 Introduction
• 07:34 Primary Energy Fallacy
• 15:14 Fossil Fuel Inefficiency
• 24:44 Rethinking Energy Efficiency
• 27:05 Using Waste Heat
• 35:00 Misleading Energy Statistics
• 43:12 Hydrogen vs Electrification
• 49:48 Resisting Technological Change
• 58:00 Hydrogen Europe 
• 01:03:14 Outro

More than 80% of the world’s advanced AI compute is concentrated in the US and China. For Europe and other middle powers, the question may no longer be how to win the AI race, but how to avoid becoming dangerously dependent on those that do.

This week on Cleaning Up, James Cameron, Chair of Cleaning Up’s Editorial Council, takes over as guest host. He speaks with Sam Winter-Levy, Senior Fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and Afonso Salema, CEO of Exus Digital and founder of TerraByte Data Centers, about how compute is becoming a strategic resource.

They explore how access to power and the grid is shaping where billions of dollars of AI infrastructure gets built, and how data centres could become a source of geopolitical leverage. They also discuss the security and public backlash facing this critical infrastructure, and whether AI’s enormous appetite for electricity could ultimately accelerate the clean energy transition.

Topics covered in this episode:

• Compute as a strategic resource
• The US-China race for AI
• Why Europe is falling behind
• AI’s rapidly growing electricity demand
• Where the world builds data centres
• Protecting data centres from attack
• Weaponising chips and AI access
• The political backlash against data centres
• Can AI accelerate clean energy?

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links:

• Afonso Salema’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/afonso-salema-336320/
• Sam Winter-Levy’s bio: https://carnegieendowment.org/people/sam-winter-levy
• James Cameron’s bio: https://www.james-cameron.co.uk/bio
• Cleaning Up 235. Inside Start Campus, Europe’s largest data centre: https://youtu.be/juAyLAUmU3w
• James Cameron on Cleaning Up in 2020: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn7GKiW5E4k
• James Cameron on Cleaning Up in 2025: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPPjAbSxl5c
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/
• The Stanford 2026 AI index: https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report
• Edelman Trust in AI poll: https://www.edelman.com/trust/2025/trust-barometer/report-tech-sector

Acronyms:

• AWS: Amazon Web Services
• NIMBY: "Not In My Back Yard"

Chapters:

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:02 AI, security, geopolitics
• 05:01 Compute as power
• 11:34 The global AI race
• 14:07 Building data centres
• 18:02 Defending critical infrastructure
• 23:53 Who pays for security?
• 29:24 Designing for resilience
• 32:48 Weaponising AI access
• 40:02 Data centre backlash
• 49:56 The balance of power
• 54:09 Can Europe catch up?
• 59:43 AI and clean energy
• 01:04:01 Outro

Can Mexico build an electric car for $8,000, and use it to create an entirely new domestic industry? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington visits Mexico City to sit down with Roberto Capuano, director of the Olinia Project, and discuss the state-backed effort to develop a new generation of affordable electric mini-vehicles. 

Roberto explains why Olinia is designing small EVs specifically around the needs of Mexican cities, how partnerships with Chinese suppliers could accelerate technology transfer, and why price rather than subsidies could ultimately drive EV adoption. They also discuss Mexico's ambitions beyond its domestic market, with potential demand across Latin America and even East Africa.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• Why Mexico wants its own carmaker
• Electrifying Mexico City's public transport
• The rise of electric mini-cars
• Building an $8,000 Mexican EV
• Why Olinia is partnering with China
• The state's role in carmaking
• Building a Latin American EV market
• Can Olinia deliver by 2027? 

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links:

• Roberto Capuano’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roberto-capuano/ 
• Olinia Project: https://www.olinia.auto/ 
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ 
• OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer
• BRT: Bus Rapid Transit 
• R&D: Research & Development
• ICE: Internal Combustion Engine 

Chapters:

• 00:00 Intro 
• 02:15 Electrifying Mexico City 
• 10:33 Olinia's Origins 
• 11:58 Mini Electric Cars 
• 18:48 Made in Mexico 
• 21:25 State-Led Industry 
• 30:33 Chinese Supply Chains 
• 36:31 The $8,000 EV 
• 40:01 Charging Infrastructure 
• 42:54 Global Ambitions 
• 45:43 Scaling Olinia 
• 48:40 Software and Autonomy 
• 50:01 Political Longevity 
• 55:31 Outro 

Can the Philippines become a testbed for Southeast Asia’s clean-tech future? 

Kicking off Season 19 of Cleaning Up, guest host Marie Cheong meets Jaime Z. Urquijo, Urban Estates Group Head at Ayala Land, one of the Philippines is largest real estate and development companies. 

Ayala Land is a subsidiary of the Ayala Corporation, which has been part of the Philippines' economic story for almost 200 years, and ACEN, its energy platform, has gone from a standing start in 2011 to more than 7GW of renewable capacity across Asia-Pacific. 

Marie and Jaime explore how the Philippines can build cleaner energy, transport and cities from the start while its economy and population continue to grow. They discuss replacing coal with renewables, retiring coal plants early, building resilient cities and making growth less carbon-intensive. From batteries and rooftop solar to green steel and electric buses, they ask what it will take for the Philippines to leapfrog to a cleaner, more resilient economy. 

Topics covered in this conversation:

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

Acronyms:

Chapters:

Australia has become a laboratory for the energy transition, what can the rest of the world learn? After two weeks travelling across Australia and meeting the leaders shaping its energy transition, Michael Liebreich got a close up view of the country’s transformation. 

For the final episode of Cleaning Up’s Deep Dive Australia series, the host becomes the guest as Anna Freeman of the Energy Efficiency Council turns the tables and puts Michael in the hot seat to ask him what he has learned.

Michael divides his takeaways into the good, the less good and the “downright ugly”, from Australia’s extraordinary rooftop solar and battery uptake to its struggles with wind, transmission and diesel. He also asks whether the country really can become a clean energy superpower, and what its successes and failures can teach the rest of the world.

Topics covered in this episode:

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Australia Deep Dive Episodes: 

Links:

Acronyms:

Chapters:

Around the world, factories making food, drink, pharmaceuticals and other everyday products rely on steam, often produced by fossil-fuel boilers. James Macnaghten, founder and CEO of Caldera, is betting that thermal batteries can provide a cheaper and more flexible alternative that stores electricity as heat, and delivers steam on demand.

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington visits Caldera's factory to see how it makes its heat batteries: combining recycled aluminium and iron ore pellets to create a long-lasting, efficient heat store. The technology is designed for industrial processes up to 200°C, which James sees as a major opportunity for electrification.

They discuss how thermal storage can help factories manage peaks in demand, use electricity when it is cheap or abundant, and reduce pressure on congested grids. They also explore Caldera's plans to scale, its journey from domestic heating to industry, and why James believes a more pragmatic approach to electrification is needed.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

Chapters: