Julia Sonnevend is the author of Charm: How Magnetic Personalities Shape Global Politics, one of the New Yorker’s Best Books of 2024. She is an associate professor of sociology and communications at the New School, and currently a CARGC Visiting Scholar at the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania.

In this conversation we discuss:

* Viktor Orbán’s political journey and charm

* Defining charm, charisma, and soft power

* Techniques of charm in politics

* Liberal vs. illiberal charm: Jacinda Ardern and Viktor Orbán

* Jacinda Ardern and the perils of charm in politics

* The anti-corruption “zebra protests” mocking the corruption of Viktor Orbán

* Iran’s Mohammad Javad Zarif, Germany’s Angela Merkel, North Korea’s Kim Jong-un, and other world leaders

* The impact of digital media on political charm

* Gender dynamics in political charm

* Everyday courage in politics

The Rhyming Chaos podcast is produced by Jeremy Goldkorn and Maria Repnikova, and edited by Cadre Scripts. The theme music is Paper Boy, composed and performed on the guzheng by Wu Fei. Our closing music is Erik Satie’s Gymnopédie No. 1, arranged and performed by Wu Fei. Our cover art is by Li Yunfei.

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