Chess Not Checkers

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Luc Jasmin to talk community, policy, and the challenges shaping Spokane today. Luc shares his journey from Boston to becoming a first-generation Haitian American leader in the Pacific Northwest, and how he got into politics through early childhood education advocacy.They dive into the realities of housing, workforce, and regional development, and how creative, collaborative solutions can make a real difference. Luc also shares how government can better meet community needs and the power of building consensus to drive change.If you care about Spokane, policy, or just want to hear a thoughtful conversation about improving communities, this episode is for you.

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Cody Arguelles, founder of the Late Arrival Club, a private members' lounge in downtown Spokane, and a man with one of the more unexpected paths to entrepreneurship you will hear.

Cody starts with the club itself, a whiskey-and-cigar community he built with a group of fellow veterans, where the only real requirement is being the kind of person who can disagree, shake hands, and still grab a beer. From there, he shares his story of becoming an Air Force SERE specialist, the strange post-military pitch that pulled him toward business, and how he eventually landed on building a place of his own.

The conversation gets into his run for Spokane City Council, why he runs as an independent, and his blunt take on how far the political parties have drifted from each other. Keith, Jordan, and Cody dig into what happens when people who have never built or stewarded anything end up making the rules.

Whether you are a veteran, an entrepreneur, or someone who just wants to build something real in your own city, this is a candid, story-rich conversation about service, self-reliance, and getting to yes. 

Learn more about The Late Arrival Club and how to join at latearrivalclub.com.

Show Flow

00:00  Welcome, Cody Arguelles of the Late Arrival Club

03:30  What the Late Arrival Club Really Is

10:30  Reading People and Who You Let In

13:50  Signing Up Blind: Choosing the SERE Path

17:14  What He Misses Most About the Military

23:55  Manipulation Training and How People Break

30:49  Local Politics Is Local: Why He Ran

34:23  Being Conservative, Running Independent

41:30  How He Out-Raised the Career Politicians

44:59  Where Government Makes Problems Worse

55:22  Who Should Be Making the Rules

1:05:40  A Magic Wand: Spokane in Five Years

1:15:46  Burned-Out Developers and Betting on the City

1:22:43  The Fight to Smoke in His Own Private Lounge

1:26:04  Wrap-Up

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Devin Mecham, designated broker of NAI Black, for an insider's look at commercial real estate and where Spokane goes from here.

Devin shares how he got into the business, and the guys dig into the market from a commercial lens: why the office sector has taken such a hit, how downtown and public safety factor in, and whether office can ever be a strategic investment again. They also look ahead to the building boom they expect as the region rebuilds after the fires, and who is actually positioned to win that work.

From there the conversation turns to the bigger forces shaping the city: the permitting headaches and Growth Management restrictions that stall good projects, the opportunity and the questions around data center development, and the hard truth that everyone says they love Spokane while pulling it in very different directions. Jordan even gets candid about rethinking how he wants to play real estate going forward, and why he is leaning more commercial.

Whether you are an investor, a developer, or just someone who cares about where Spokane is headed, this is a candid, in-the-weeds conversation about real estate, civic vision, and playing the long game. Learn more about Devin at NAI Black.

Chapters:

00:00 Welcome, Devin Mecham of NAI Black

03:24 How Devin Got Into Real Estate

07:00 Missing Bedtime: The Numbers and the Why

10:24 Reading a Commercial Deal (Without the Jargon)

13:47 The Coming Rebuild Boom and Who Wins It

17:25 Why the Office Sector Fell

20:48 Buying Office: Cap Rates and Staying Power

24:10 Tenant Improvements, Leases, and the Real Math

27:32 Growth, Permitting, and the GMA Problem

34:16 Property Taxes and Getting Stonewalled

40:56 Data Centers: Opportunity and Questions

44:28 Loving Spokane, Disagreeing on the Vision

51:31 When the Rules Change Out From Under You

54:56 Buy Well, Never Sell: Lessons and Case Studies

61:45 74 Projects In: Rethinking How to Play It

65:08 Partnerships and Final Thoughts

We're revisiting one of our favorite conversations. Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Brynn MacLennan, CEO and co-founder of Slate, the company reinventing something almost nobody enjoys: flossing.

Brynn walks through the whole arc, from the first spark of the idea in 2019 to launching an electric flosser in 2022, and everything that came with scaling a physical product through a pandemic. She's honest about what it actually takes: the innovation, the leadership calls, the team culture you have to build, and the curveballs you never see coming.

Whether you're chasing a business idea of your own or you just dread flossing, there's something in this one for you. That's what makes it worth a second listen.

Learn more at slateflosser.com

Show Flow

00:00 Welcome, Brynn MacLennan of Slate

03:14 A Dentist, a Problem, and the Idea for Slate

06:37 What It Really Takes to Make a Physical Product

09:56 Spending $24K to Get Started

13:11 Regrets, Passion, and Loving the Product

16:27 Flossing, Correlation, and Not Wanting to Die

19:41 Grit vs. Stubbornness: Knowing the Difference

23:00 Bringing More Voices Into the Business

26:24 "Every Day I Realize I Know Nothing": Learning as a Leader

32:55 How Slate Actually Gets Made and Shipped

52:24 Leading People Without Losing Yourself

1:02:14 Hiring for Behavior, Not Just Skill

1:08:51 Playing Chess, Not Checkers: Final Thoughts

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien pull back the curtain on something they usually only mention in passing: the real mechanics of real estate development.

Whether you are an investor, a developer, a would-be flipper, or just trying to make sense of today's housing market, this episode is a candid, numbers-and-all look at how real estate really works, and a reminder that at some point, as Jordan puts it, you have to pick a life instead of just collecting stuff.

Show Flow

00:00  Breaking Down a Real Deal for Once

02:39  The Peyton: Seven Stories, 96 Units

07:44  Tax Credits, Lenders, and a Loan That Nearly Fell Apart

12:44  Why a Pro Forma Is Worthless Once You Dig In

20:40  The New Rules: Rates, Holding, and Who Wins

25:48  Where Values Are Actually Falling

28:18  Rebuilding After the Fires vs. Your Insurance Payout

36:13  Spokane's Renovator's Market and the Return on a Flip

46:39  50,000 Older Homes and Why More Flippers Would Help

49:09  Oversized Houses and the Shift in What Buyers Want

56:59  The Hidden Costs of Owning a Home

1:12:42  Sentiment, and Reconnecting

1:22:30  Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

Li Ciavola is back. After his gripping Denali story last time, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien bring the climber back to Chess Not Checkers to get to know the man behind the mountain.

This time the conversation is less about the summit and more about everything around it. Li opens up about what happens after you finally reach a goal you chased for a decade, the strange emptiness of the victory, the search for the next driving force, and why so much of life turns out to be about the chase rather than the win.

Whether you are chasing a goal, wrestling with what comes after one, or just trying to figure out what enough looks like, this is a thoughtful, wide-ranging conversation about ambition, contentment, and building a life you actually want.

Follow Li on Instagram @dingos.domain.

Show Flow

00:00  Welcome Back: The Man Behind the Climb

03:00  What's Next: Avalanche Education for Spokane

06:00  "You Gotta Pick a Life"

12:00  Presence, Trade-offs, and Going All In

21:00  Where Frustration Comes From, and the Grass Isn't Greener

27:00  Growth, Trust, and the Flame That Tempers Steel

33:00  Scaling Four Degrees and Hard Lessons

39:00  Life at Sea: Selling Luxury on Cruise Ships

54:00  Dressing the Part and Reading the Room

63:00  College, Italy, and Your Twenties

66:00  Comparison, Status, and Never Enough

78:00  Naming Your Mountain and Staying Consistent

86:30  Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

We're revisiting one of our favorite conversations. This episode of Chess Not Checkers first aired June 10, 2025, and it's well worth a second listen.

Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien welcome Bobby Brett, whose life has straddled two worlds that shaped modern Spokane: professional sports and real estate. Raised in a family where competition was a way of life, Bobby carried that drive far beyond the diamond, turning a love of baseball into a career that reached into nearly every corner of the city.

When his playing days wrapped, Bobby set his sights on real estate, and the timing proved pivotal. In 1985 he made the kind of move that defines a career, buying a Spokane minor league club and building it into the beloved Spokane Indians. He later added the Spokane Chiefs to his roster, becoming one of the most recognizable names in the region's sports scene. Off the field, his patient approach to property, buying quality real estate and holding it for the long haul, helped him leave a permanent mark on the way the city grew.

In this conversation, Bobby pulls back the curtain on both pursuits: the instincts behind his biggest bets, how the Spokane market compares to places like California, the value hiding in the city's historic buildings, and the hard-won lessons he'd pass along to anyone hoping to invest and build something that lasts.

Chapters:

00:00  Introduction

00:35  Bobby Brett's Early Life and Family Background

01:34  Journey to Spokane and Minor League Baseball

03:21  First Impressions of Spokane

04:21  Buying the Spokane Indians

10:38  Transition to Real Estate

14:45  Early Real Estate Ventures

22:12  Real Estate Strategies and Lessons

33:11  A Coach's Journey to Real Estate

33:53  Comparing Real Estate Markets: Spokane vs. California

35:01  Investing in Spokane's Historic Buildings

36:31  Challenges and Opportunities in Downtown Spokane

37:28  The Impact of Politics on Real Estate

40:06  The Value of Long-Term Real Estate Investment

46:35  Advice for Aspiring Real Estate Investors

50:18  Reflecting on Real Estate Market Trends

01:02:07  The Unique Appeal of Spokane's Sports Teams

01:03:03  Parting Words

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Ted Schmidt, a Spokane native who turned a local tool and equipment rental company into a regional powerhouse before finding his second act as a business coach.

Ted shares the story of AA Rentals, how he worked his way up from a college job to partner and helped grow the company to 22 locations and roughly 400 employees across the I-5 corridor, right up until a major international buyer made an offer they could not refuse. After the sale, he and his wife left the rat race and came home to Spokane.

These days Ted coaches business owners through ActionCOACH Northwest, and the conversation digs into the hard-won lessons behind that work: why you should build an asset, not a job, and start with the end in mind; why knowing your numbers still matters in the age of AI, since a tool can build the spreadsheet but not tell you which questions to ask; how leaders and employees alike hit a ceiling when they stop growing; and why so many owners wait until they are burned out to make their first hire.

Whether you are a solopreneur eyeing your first hire, an owner trying to scale, or someone dreaming about an eventual exit, this episode is full of practical wisdom on building a business that can run, and grow, without you.

Learn more about Ted's coaching at ActionCOACH Northwest: actioncoachnw.com

Show Flow

00:00  Meet Ted Schmitt, Spokane Native

02:30  Building AA Rentals to 22 Locations

05:00  Industry Consolidation and Selling the Company

07:30  What College Missed About Real Business

12:30  Learning to Live by Your Numbers

17:38  The Second Act: Coaching Business Owners

22:44  Build an Asset, Not a Job

27:50  Systems, Conversion, and Knowing the Right Questions

33:00  It All Comes Down to Your Team

40:39  Knowing Your Numbers and Breaking Even on a Hire

45:42  Letting Go: Why Control Is a Weak Leader's Move

55:58  Creating Space and the First Hire

As wildfire moves through the Spokane area, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien set the business talk aside for a more personal conversation about what happens when disaster hits close to home.

They open with the fire itself: the sudden evacuations across Indian Trail, Five Mile, and West Francis, the hundreds of homes lost, and why this one hit Eastern Washington harder than anything in recent memory. 

B Keith and Jordan reflect on how moments like these strip away the noise and remind us what actually matters, not the bigger house or the nicer car, but the people we love and the time we have with them. They get into the lessons underneath the loss: why we overestimate what we can do in a day and underestimate what we can do in a year, the quiet power of the seeds we plant in others, and how to move through a hard season in a way that is honest but still productive.

Whether you are in Spokane or watching from afar, this is a heartfelt conversation about resilience, gratitude, and keeping the main thing the main thing when life turns upside down.

Show Flow

00:00  Spokane on Fire: What We're Watching Unfold

04:00  Evacuations and the Escape-Route Problem

08:00  Disbelief, Delay, and Gridlock Getting Out

12:00  What Recovery and Rebuilding Actually Involve

16:00  Insurance, Fire Zones, and the Cost to Rebuild

18:00  The Water, the Runoff, and the Environmental Toll

24:00  Lessons from the Palisades Fire

26:00  Making It About Yourself vs. Showing Up for Others

30:00  What You'd Grab, and What Really Matters

36:00  Grieving Without Getting Stuck

42:00  Finding What You're Made Of in Hard Times

54:00  Small Connections, Big Impact, and Where We Go Next

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Li Ciavola, a climber, real estate professional, and lead instructor for the Spokane Mountaineers, fresh off summiting Denali, the tallest and arguably toughest of the seven summits.

Li takes us inside all 23 days on the mountain: pulling 160 pounds of gear across a crevassed glacier, riding out blizzards for days at a time, and the harrowing night his teammate nearly died of altitude sickness at 11,000 feet, which forced Li to navigate a whiteout alone with nothing but his phone and a fading battery. It is a gripping, high-stakes story told in vivid detail.

But the real payoff is what climbing teaches about the long game. Li, Keith, and Jordan draw the throughline between the mountain and business: managing risk instead of avoiding it, making clear-headed decisions under pressure, and knowing when to push and when to turn around. Li also shares how real estate bought him the time freedom to chase the mountains in the first place, closing deals from a rope thousands of feet up.

Whether you are a climber, an entrepreneur, or someone weighing the risks in your own big pursuit, this is a conversation about resilience, resourcefulness, and playing the long game. Follow Li on Instagram @dingos.domain to see the photos from his Denali climb.

Show Flow:

00:00  Meeting Li and the Ciavola Name

02:04  Why Denali Is the Toughest of the Seven Summits

06:13  Altitude Sickness and Li's Climbing Background

09:26  Climbing Unguided: A Year of Prep and 160 Pounds of Gear

21:52  A Teammate Goes Down: The Emergency at Camp 11

34:48  Alone in a Whiteout

45:48  Type Two Fun, a New Teammate, and Tragedy on the Mountain

53:33  Risk, Reward, and What Price You're Willing to Pay

57:09  Climbing as Risk Management and a Metaphor for Life

1:03:23  Real Estate, Time Freedom, and Closing Deals From a Rope