Chess Not Checkers

Li Ciavola is back. After his gripping Denali story last time, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien bring the climber back to Chess Not Checkers to get to know the man behind the mountain.

This time the conversation is less about the summit and more about everything around it. Li opens up about what happens after you finally reach a goal you chased for a decade, the strange emptiness of the victory, the search for the next driving force, and why so much of life turns out to be about the chase rather than the win.

Whether you are chasing a goal, wrestling with what comes after one, or just trying to figure out what enough looks like, this is a thoughtful, wide-ranging conversation about ambition, contentment, and building a life you actually want.

Follow Li on Instagram @dingos.domain.

Show Flow

00:00  Welcome Back: The Man Behind the Climb

03:00  What's Next: Avalanche Education for Spokane

06:00  "You Gotta Pick a Life"

12:00  Presence, Trade-offs, and Going All In

21:00  Where Frustration Comes From, and the Grass Isn't Greener

27:00  Growth, Trust, and the Flame That Tempers Steel

33:00  Scaling Four Degrees and Hard Lessons

39:00  Life at Sea: Selling Luxury on Cruise Ships

54:00  Dressing the Part and Reading the Room

63:00  College, Italy, and Your Twenties

66:00  Comparison, Status, and Never Enough

78:00  Naming Your Mountain and Staying Consistent

86:30  Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

We're revisiting one of our favorite conversations. This episode of Chess Not Checkers first aired June 10, 2025, and it's well worth a second listen.

Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien welcome Bobby Brett, whose life has straddled two worlds that shaped modern Spokane: professional sports and real estate. Raised in a family where competition was a way of life, Bobby carried that drive far beyond the diamond, turning a love of baseball into a career that reached into nearly every corner of the city.

When his playing days wrapped, Bobby set his sights on real estate, and the timing proved pivotal. In 1985 he made the kind of move that defines a career, buying a Spokane minor league club and building it into the beloved Spokane Indians. He later added the Spokane Chiefs to his roster, becoming one of the most recognizable names in the region's sports scene. Off the field, his patient approach to property, buying quality real estate and holding it for the long haul, helped him leave a permanent mark on the way the city grew.

In this conversation, Bobby pulls back the curtain on both pursuits: the instincts behind his biggest bets, how the Spokane market compares to places like California, the value hiding in the city's historic buildings, and the hard-won lessons he'd pass along to anyone hoping to invest and build something that lasts.

Chapters:

00:00  Introduction

00:35  Bobby Brett's Early Life and Family Background

01:34  Journey to Spokane and Minor League Baseball

03:21  First Impressions of Spokane

04:21  Buying the Spokane Indians

10:38  Transition to Real Estate

14:45  Early Real Estate Ventures

22:12  Real Estate Strategies and Lessons

33:11  A Coach's Journey to Real Estate

33:53  Comparing Real Estate Markets: Spokane vs. California

35:01  Investing in Spokane's Historic Buildings

36:31  Challenges and Opportunities in Downtown Spokane

37:28  The Impact of Politics on Real Estate

40:06  The Value of Long-Term Real Estate Investment

46:35  Advice for Aspiring Real Estate Investors

50:18  Reflecting on Real Estate Market Trends

01:02:07  The Unique Appeal of Spokane's Sports Teams

01:03:03  Parting Words

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Ted Schmidt, a Spokane native who turned a local tool and equipment rental company into a regional powerhouse before finding his second act as a business coach.

Ted shares the story of AA Rentals, how he worked his way up from a college job to partner and helped grow the company to 22 locations and roughly 400 employees across the I-5 corridor, right up until a major international buyer made an offer they could not refuse. After the sale, he and his wife left the rat race and came home to Spokane.

These days Ted coaches business owners through ActionCOACH Northwest, and the conversation digs into the hard-won lessons behind that work: why you should build an asset, not a job, and start with the end in mind; why knowing your numbers still matters in the age of AI, since a tool can build the spreadsheet but not tell you which questions to ask; how leaders and employees alike hit a ceiling when they stop growing; and why so many owners wait until they are burned out to make their first hire.

Whether you are a solopreneur eyeing your first hire, an owner trying to scale, or someone dreaming about an eventual exit, this episode is full of practical wisdom on building a business that can run, and grow, without you.

Learn more about Ted's coaching at ActionCOACH Northwest: actioncoachnw.com

Show Flow

00:00  Meet Ted Schmitt, Spokane Native

02:30  Building AA Rentals to 22 Locations

05:00  Industry Consolidation and Selling the Company

07:30  What College Missed About Real Business

12:30  Learning to Live by Your Numbers

17:38  The Second Act: Coaching Business Owners

22:44  Build an Asset, Not a Job

27:50  Systems, Conversion, and Knowing the Right Questions

33:00  It All Comes Down to Your Team

40:39  Knowing Your Numbers and Breaking Even on a Hire

45:42  Letting Go: Why Control Is a Weak Leader's Move

55:58  Creating Space and the First Hire

As wildfire moves through the Spokane area, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien set the business talk aside for a more personal conversation about what happens when disaster hits close to home.

They open with the fire itself: the sudden evacuations across Indian Trail, Five Mile, and West Francis, the hundreds of homes lost, and why this one hit Eastern Washington harder than anything in recent memory. 

B Keith and Jordan reflect on how moments like these strip away the noise and remind us what actually matters, not the bigger house or the nicer car, but the people we love and the time we have with them. They get into the lessons underneath the loss: why we overestimate what we can do in a day and underestimate what we can do in a year, the quiet power of the seeds we plant in others, and how to move through a hard season in a way that is honest but still productive.

Whether you are in Spokane or watching from afar, this is a heartfelt conversation about resilience, gratitude, and keeping the main thing the main thing when life turns upside down.

Show Flow

00:00  Spokane on Fire: What We're Watching Unfold

04:00  Evacuations and the Escape-Route Problem

08:00  Disbelief, Delay, and Gridlock Getting Out

12:00  What Recovery and Rebuilding Actually Involve

16:00  Insurance, Fire Zones, and the Cost to Rebuild

18:00  The Water, the Runoff, and the Environmental Toll

24:00  Lessons from the Palisades Fire

26:00  Making It About Yourself vs. Showing Up for Others

30:00  What You'd Grab, and What Really Matters

36:00  Grieving Without Getting Stuck

42:00  Finding What You're Made Of in Hard Times

54:00  Small Connections, Big Impact, and Where We Go Next

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Li Ciavola, a climber, real estate professional, and lead instructor for the Spokane Mountaineers, fresh off summiting Denali, the tallest and arguably toughest of the seven summits.

Li takes us inside all 23 days on the mountain: pulling 160 pounds of gear across a crevassed glacier, riding out blizzards for days at a time, and the harrowing night his teammate nearly died of altitude sickness at 11,000 feet, which forced Li to navigate a whiteout alone with nothing but his phone and a fading battery. It is a gripping, high-stakes story told in vivid detail.

But the real payoff is what climbing teaches about the long game. Li, Keith, and Jordan draw the throughline between the mountain and business: managing risk instead of avoiding it, making clear-headed decisions under pressure, and knowing when to push and when to turn around. Li also shares how real estate bought him the time freedom to chase the mountains in the first place, closing deals from a rope thousands of feet up.

Whether you are a climber, an entrepreneur, or someone weighing the risks in your own big pursuit, this is a conversation about resilience, resourcefulness, and playing the long game. Follow Li on Instagram @dingos.domain to see the photos from his Denali climb.

Show Flow:

00:00  Meeting Li and the Ciavola Name

02:04  Why Denali Is the Toughest of the Seven Summits

06:13  Altitude Sickness and Li's Climbing Background

09:26  Climbing Unguided: A Year of Prep and 160 Pounds of Gear

21:52  A Teammate Goes Down: The Emergency at Camp 11

34:48  Alone in a Whiteout

45:48  Type Two Fun, a New Teammate, and Tragedy on the Mountain

53:33  Risk, Reward, and What Price You're Willing to Pay

57:09  Climbing as Risk Management and a Metaphor for Life

1:03:23  Real Estate, Time Freedom, and Closing Deals From a Rope

He's our first repeat guest, and for good reason. In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien welcome back Jonathan Bingle, former Spokane City Council member and current candidate for state representative in Washington's 6th Legislative District. A lot has changed since his last visit, and the three of them cover serious ground.

Jonathan shares his philosophy on what government is actually for, keeping people safe and building infrastructure, and where he believes it has drifted into problems it cannot solve. The conversation digs into housing and why he sees builders and entrepreneurs, rather than government, as the real housing providers; his case against rent control; public safety; and the personal cost of running for office while raising three young kids. From there it turns to the future: the rise of artificial intelligence, the high-stakes race between the United States and China, and what happens to human purpose, work, and faith when the machines catch up.

Whether you are a business owner, a voter trying to make sense of local politics, or someone thinking hard about where technology is taking us, this is a candid, wide-ranging conversation about leadership, purpose, and the road ahead. Follow Jonathan and learn more about his campaign at jonathanbingle.com.

00:00  Welcome Back to Jonathan Bingle

05:27  What Government Is Actually For

08:00  Rent Control and the Real Cost of Housing

18:15  Public Safety and Lessons from City Council

20:46  Running as a Republican in a Blue State

28:30  The Sacrifice of Serving in Olympia

33:30  Entering the AI Frontier

38:30  The Race Against China

48:48  Progress, Disruption, and What AI Replaces

53:51  Purpose, Faith, and the Questions Ahead

What leads someone with a military and business background to step into local politics? In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Alan Nolan, a Mead School Board member, retired Air Force lieutenant colonel, and candidate for Washington's 6th Legislative District, to trace his path from the Air Force Academy to Spokane and into public service.

Alan shares how a career spanning the military, small business, and education shaped his approach to leadership, why he believes boards and government benefit from members who come from outside the institutions they oversee, and what finally moved him to get off the sidelines and run. The conversation digs into issues that hit close to home for Spokane, including the debate over Spokane Transit Authority's expansion and the North Division line, the role of fiscal responsibility in public budgets, and the connection Alan sees between tax policy, affordability, and challenges like homelessness and addiction.

Whether you're a business owner, a civic-minded leader, or someone who has ever wondered whether getting involved is worth it, this episode offers a candid look at what it means to serve, to lead, and to think a few moves ahead. Learn more about Alan and his campaign at nolan4wa.com.

Show Flow

00:00  Welcome to Chess Not Checkers

02:31  From the Air Force to Spokane and Starting 509 Design

07:35  Washington's Districts and Why Alan Ran

12:49  Winning a Seat on the Mead School Board

15:20  Education, Outside Perspectives, and Literacy

28:32  The STA Ballot Measure and Fiscal Responsibility

39:00  Markets, Density, and How Cities Plan

47:00  Accountability, Incentives, and Private-Sector Solutions

62:47  Oversight, Olympia, and the Cost of Living in Washington

What happens when one of your listeners takes over the podcast?

In this special episode of Chess Not Checkers, loyal listener and real estate professional Matt Brunner steps behind the microphone to interview Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien. Instead of bringing on a guest, the hosts become the guests, answering thoughtful questions about business, leadership, real estate, and the lessons they’ve learned throughout their careers.

The conversation dives into the pressure of chasing “more,” the importance of finding your own definition of success, the value of coaching and mentorship, and why building a meaningful life requires more than simply growing a bigger business. Keith and Jordan also reflect on the mistakes they’ve made, the mindset shifts that changed their careers, and what they wish they had known when they were just getting started.

If you’ve ever wondered what drives Keith and Jordan or wanted to hear them answer the kinds of questions they usually ask their guests, this episode offers an honest look behind the curtain. It’s a conversation about ambition, purpose, fulfillment, and learning to play the long game—in business and in life.

 Learn more about Matt’s background, his approach to real estate investing, and the mission behind Matt Brunner Homes. mattbrunnerhomes.com/about

Before Corey Jeppesen founded Bahlr Media, he received a piece of advice from Spokane advertising legend Ed Clark that would shape the way he viewed advertising, creativity, and brand building for years to come.

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Corey to discuss his journey from graphic designer to agency owner, the principles that have guided his career, and why great advertising has always been rooted in understanding people and telling stories that matter.

The conversation explores the evolution of marketing, the difference between branding and advertising, building a creative business, and what it takes to create work that stands the test of time. Corey also shares the lessons he’s learned from growing Bahlr Media, the importance of surrounding yourself with great mentors, and why strategy will always outlast trends.

Whether you’re an entrepreneur, marketer, creative, or business owner, this episode offers practical insights on building a brand with purpose, earning people’s attention, and creating meaningful connections through storytelling.

Follow Corey on Instagram: @seejepp

Learn More About Bahlr Media: https://bahlr.com/

In this special listener Q&A episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien tackle questions from listeners on real estate investing, business growth, Spokane’s future, and the lessons they’ve learned along the way.

The conversation covers what they look for when evaluating a real estate deal, the biggest mistakes investors make, how to think about long-term wealth building, and why waiting for the “perfect” opportunity can keep people stuck on the sidelines. Keith and Jordan also share stories from their own projects, including lessons learned from the Peyton Building, the 808 Building, and other investments that shaped their approach to real estate.

Whether you’re a business owner, investor, entrepreneur, or someone thinking about your first real estate deal, this episode is packed with practical insights, hard-earned lessons, and the strategic thinking that defines Chess Not Checkers.