Christian Financial Perspectives

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Christian Financial Perspectives episodes

January 08, 2019 Episode 16 – Procrastination
Many find themselves in a revolving cycle of of putting off financial matters that need to be done. Could you be in this cycle? Bob and Mary Jo talk about one of the main reasons for financial failure in almost every area of your finances - procrastination.
22 min
January 01, 2019 Episode 15 – Setting Financial Goals
What are your financial goals and what have you done to help make them happen? This week, Bob and Mary Jo offer tips and advice that may give an extra advantage when it comes to fulfilling financial goals.
18 min
January 01, 201915 – Setting Financial Goals
Click below to listen to Episode 15 – Setting Financial Goals
Episode 15 – Setting Financial Goals

Learn about ways to work towards achieving your financial goals.

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What are your financial goals and what have you done to help make them happen? This week, Bob and Mary Jo offer tips and advice that may give an extra advantage when it comes to fulfilling financial goals, including the SMART acronym:
Specific
Measurable
Achievable
Relevant
Timely

One of the best things one can do when it comes to any goal is to be very specific and put them in writing. When you identify your goals and write them down, you are making a commitment to them. Writing down your goals, desires, and beliefs is very much a Biblical Principle, as you will see from the scriptures shared in this episode.

HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®
Mentioned In This Episode

Christian Financial Advisors
Website

Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

[INTRODUCTION]
Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.
Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.
Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?
Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.
[EPISODE]
Mary Jo:
Well, it’s getting to be that time of year when we start thinking about the new year and what’s in store for us. This week’s topic is going to be setting financial goals. As always, we want to start the show with some relevant scriptures. As we have shared in the past, the Bible has much to say about money and setting financial goals.
Bob:
Mary Jo, one of the scriptures I thought, actually there’s two of them in Deuteronomy, that has to do with setting spiritual goals as well as financial goals. This first one has more to do with setting spiritual goals for those of us that are believers, and it’s from Deuteronomy 6:9 and 11:20, “You shall write them on the doorframes of your house and on your town gates.” It’s really about putting those goals in writing and seeing them on a daily basis. Because you think about it, you pass through a door of your house every day.
Mary Jo:
Well, that’s true, and the Bible mentions writing them down on several places. In Proverbs 3:3 it says, “Do not let kindness and truth leave you. Bind them around your neck. Write them on a tablet of your heart.”
Bob:
And here’s another really good scripture out of Isaiah 38 that hits right to the heart about writing it down. “Now go. Write it on a tablet before them and inscribe it on a scroll that it may serve in the time to come as a witness forever.” That was a little bit of a tongue twister.
Mary Jo:
Biblically, the act of writing means a great deal. It gives it priority, attention, and creates contemplation. So writing down your goals, desires, and beliefs is very much a biblical principles, as you can see from a few of the scriptures above. When you identify your goals and write them down, you’re making a commitment to them.
Bob:
Mary Jo, I’ve known about this Harvard Business School study that was done many, many years ago. And I’ve mentioned this over the years as I’ve written about setting financial goals and spoken about it. So, this is an interesting study to always bring up and share. 83% of the population does not have any clearly defined goals, much less financial. 14% have goals, but they’ve never written them down. 3% of the population has goals that are written down. Did you just hear that? Only 3% of the population actually writes down their goals.
Mary Jo:
That’s amazing.
Bob:
This study concluded that the 3% of people that write down their goals were earning an astounding 10 times more money than those of the 83% group. Remember, the 83% is the population that doesn’t have any clearly defined goals, much less financial. In addition, similar studies have shown that individuals with written goals also tend to have better health and happier marriages than those without them.
Mary Jo:
Bob, it’s really interesting the fact about writing down your goals and how important that is. I’ve spent a lot of my life in the corporate world, and I know some of our listeners are out there working in the corporate world, but a lot of our listeners are self employed or maybe stay at home moms or retired, and they forget about how important it is to think about your goals. Be very specific about them, and write them down. And that’s how things actually begin to materialize. Another thing in the corporate world, we learned some methodologies for goal setting. One of them that is very common, and most of our listeners have probably heard about, is smart goals. They’re specific, measurable, achievable, relevant, and timely. And I know Bob, you have a different method that you like to talk about. What is that?
Bob:
Well, it’s very similar to your method that you just mentioned. I always called mine SMAC S-M-A-C. That acronym stands for the same words, that the smart stands for, like specific, measurable, achievable, and compatible. It’s so important, as we set those goals, that they are compatible to us. As an example, I’m 56 years old and if I say, I want to go run a four minute mile, that’s really not compatible or achievable. I mean, I’ve gotta be realistic.
Mary Jo:
I’m not gonna touch that, Bob. That’s not kind, and we’re supposed to be kind, right?
Bob:
Exactly.
Mary Jo:
So when it comes to your goals, be very specific. By putting them in writing, I have reached nearly a 100% of my written goals over the years. It’s one of those steps that is so critical for success. Bob, I know you have a form that you use. Why don’t you tell our listeners about what that looks like?
Bob:
Mary Jo, I have a form that I use that looks at the goals from five to seven different angles. One is spiritually. What do I want to accomplish in 2019 and what will I do to accomplish the goal? Physically, what do I want and how will I accomplish it? Let’s say, physically, I want to lose 10 pounds. Well, how am I going to accomplish this scope? Give up drinking sweet tea all the time. Something simple like that. Financially, maybe I want to pay off a debt or grow my cash reserves to a certain amount, and what am I going to do to accomplish that goal. Relationally, I like this one because this would be with my family, with my wife, how do I want to improve our relationship and what will I do to accomplish that? Mentally, what am I going to do? And that might be reading several books, and how am I going to accomplish that goal? Maybe go to a workshop or a seminar, and then professionally, what do I want to do to accomplish a goal? So again, it’s spiritually, physically, financially, relationally, mentally, and professionally.
Mary Jo:
When it comes to setting financial goals, there are some other steps to consider as well. Before starting down the path of financial planning, which is my specialty. I always tell my clients it’s always helpful to first identify what matters most to you. What do you want your financial future to look like? I think you have to imagine that and give some specifics around that before you really start down the path of planning, so you know where you’re going to go.
Bob:
It’s also important to think about what your short term goals, as well as your longterm goals, what you want those to be. Like longterm goals might be for big ticket items like a home, educational funding, or retirement, where a short term goal might be just to pay off a low credit card balance over the next six months.
Mary Jo:
And it’s common to have competing goals or competing timeframes for some of your goals. So you first have to do some prioritizing. It’s okay to be saving for multiple goals at the same time, but I would say that creating an emergency fund should be at the top of that list if you’ve not already done so. Without this, you may continue to rely on credit or borrow from your retirement accounts, so that’s not going to help you accomplish your other goals. It might sound a little bit odd, but I think that needs to be at the top of the list, and it will help you then accomplish the other goals.
Bob:
I like this fourth one of creating a realistic budget and sticking to it. If it’s not a realistic budget, it’s going to be very hard to stick to. If you’re used to spending $200 a month on eating out, and now you’re going to knock that down to $40 a month or $10 a week, that’s not a realistic budget, but maybe if you’ve been spending $200 and you could bring that down to $125, and then you can stick to it. Create a realistic goal and budget, monitor it periodically, and adjust it as needed and really track your spending.
Mary Jo:
That’s a good one. You also want to automate both your payments and your savings. By automating your savings, you’re paying yourself first and by automating your payments, you’re going to avoid any late fees and penalties. Those can just kind of wreak havoc on your spending plan and your budget faster than anything.
Bob:
If your employer offers a 401k or a 403b or thrift savings plan, especially if they’re going to match your contribution, this is something that you want to do here at the beginning of the year if you’ve not done so already. And just think about the match. If you’re putting in $50 and they’re matching you for that, you’re making a 100% return from day one on your money.
Mary Jo:
People ask me all the time. Well, should I do that even if I have these other financial goals that I’m trying to do. And I always say yes, because if there’s an employer match, that’s found money. And then you’re also reducing your taxable, take home pay. By clicking that box to fund the 401k, it’s really not going to impact your take home pay all that much. I think you’d be surprised, and it’s paying yourself first. If you’re married, you also want to seek spousal unity. It’s important that you share the same goals. That way, you’re much more likely to achieve them if you’re both on the same page and you’re both willing to sacrifice for a shared objective.
Bob:
And number eight, if you’re going to obsess about something, this is a good thing to obsess about.
Mary Jo:
Bob, I always have to laugh here and I’m going to make fun of my husband at his expense. And I know he’ll take it in good stride as he listens to our podcast, but he has a little bit of OCD. So he obsesses about a lot. And it was really interesting when we first started tracking our spending and our budgeting and especially our savings and he started to see that number grow, it really did become something that he could finally obsess about. So instead of obsessing about stuff and buying things, he began to obsess about our savings. That was a win for me. once you start writing it down and you see it and you see it grow, it’s really easy to focus on that growth and you want to continue to see it grow. So, you’re much more likely to stick to it.
Bob:
So maybe we could rephrase that a little bit. If you’re going to obsess about getting out of debt and saving, that’s not a bad thing to obsess about.
Mary Jo:
That’s right.
Bob:
One of the things that you can do here at the beginning of the year is do a financial health score check. And you can do that right on our website ciswealth.com. It’s right under the area that click on for our podcast. It says, what’s your financial health score. And you can do this completely on your own in the comfort of your home, over the internet. And then it will generate a score and actually send it to us. You can have a meeting with either Mary Jo or myself to go over that score and look at things that you could do to help you better in your financial situation.
Mary Jo:
And here we are, it’s already the first of the year. If you don’t have your goals for the year written down, this is your opportunity to do so. Cause if you don’t write them down, the year is just going to pass you by. I can share that from experience. So I do want to encourage our listeners, each of you, to write down your financial goals, as well as your other goals and see what a difference just that one step will make for your success in accomplishing those goals in the following years.
Bob:
Like we mentioned at the beginning of the program to write them down, and then I shared several areas of goal setting, from relationship to financial to spiritual to mental, you write all these down in one little form. I like to do it in about a four inch by six inch form, make copies of them. Laminate three or four, even five of them. I put one in my shower. So I see it in the morning, one by my bathroom mirror, one in my Bible and even one next to my keyboard at work so that I’m always being reminded of these goals. I’ve just noticed by doing this, it really keeps it top of mind awareness.
Mary Jo:
Oh, that’s awesome. Bob, I love the putting one in your Bible cause like to read my Bible every day. So, that’s a good visual reminder and helps you. When you pray on those goals, you’re going to make it closer to your heart and be just much more committed to it. Clients often ask us well, so what other financial goals should they be thinking about besides the obvious ones? And I always say, well, what might be obvious to me may not be obvious to you. So I would encourage everyone to include the following in their list of goals. The first one is, and you heard me mention it earlier, have a three month emergency fund. And as you age, you want to expand this. So by the time you’re 50, you probably want to have about a year’s worth of expenses and savings. The reason I say that is cause that’s more than what the rule of thumb is, but as you age, if you’re employed, it takes you much longer to replace that salary, and age discrimination is real. So, it’s also going to take you longer to find a new job if you lose the one you have. So, you definitely want to expand that emergency fund plus your overall expenses, and your financial footprint is bigger, so you need a bigger savings.
Bob:
I’d like to say something here about that, too, Mary Jo, that health issues strike so many of us that are above 50. Also with those health issues, it’s good to have cash reserves for times like that.
Mary Jo:
Well, and that brings up “Cash Is King”. So you want to develop a cash mindset and avoid the use of credit. And in trying to decide how to tackle debt, this is one I get asked about all the time. Well, which one do I pay first? Or I have this really small balance. Should I pay that first? Well, in my mind, it boils down to the cost of money. Pay off the highest rate first. So, put all your resources to the most expensive debt and then just kind of begin to move it down. But the ones that are lower interest rate, even if it’s a smaller balance, it’s costing you less to have that debt. So, pay the most expensive ones down first.
Bob:
These last three things are simplify your life, avoid stuff. None of us need more stuff here in America. Believe me, we got more than most of us need and that stuff can cost you dearly. It makes you less mobile. If it’s time to go on that mission trip, you have to transport it, store it, ensure all of that stuff that costs money. So life is best when live through experiences and not stuff, not material possessions. Next, develop a giving mindset this year. God loves a cheerful giver. Giving releases the bondage that materialism can have over you. Keep your financial life in as much order as possible, include that in an estate plan, protection is needed, et cetera, keeping that life in financial order. If you’re married, many times, there’s one of you that has more of the organizational skills than the other and allow them to help you with that if you’re not naturally an organized person. As we come to the end, there’s an old saying about goal setting that I’ve used for many years. Aim for nothing and that is exactly what you’ll hit, or aim for the stars and you’ll hit the moon.
Mary Jo:
I love that Bob. That’s awesome. As we wrap up today’s episode about setting financial goals, there’s one more scripture that we want to leave you with and it’s from Proverbs 4:25-27, “Look straight ahead and fix your eyes on what lies before you. Mark out a straight path with your feet. Stay on the safe path. Don’t get sidetracked. Keep your feet from following evil.” That’s all for now.
[CONCLUSION]
Mary Jo: You’ve been listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us as we explore more about how to apply biblical wisdom to your financial situations.
Bob: To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts, you can subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. To learn more about integrating your faith with your finances, visit out website at ciswealth.com or call 830-609-6986.
Mary Jo: That’s all for now.
[DISCLOSURES]
Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.
18 min
December 19, 2018 Episode 14 – National Christian Foundation with Guest Ryan Assunto
In this episode of Christian Financial Perspectives, Bob and Mary Jo discuss the joy of giving. Also joining Bob and Mary Jo is Ryan Assunto, the President of the National Christian Foundation Austin (NCF).
34 min
December 19, 2018 14 – National Christian Foundation with Guest Ryan Assunto
Click below to listen to Episode 14 – National Christian Foundation with Guest Ryan Assunto
Episode 14 – National Christian Foundation with Guest Ryan Assunto

Learn more about National Christian Foundation from its Austin president, Ryan Assunto.

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In this episode of Christian Financial Perspectives, Bob and Mary Jo discuss the joy of giving. Also joining Bob and Mary Jo is Ryan Assunto, the President of the National Christian Foundation Austin (NCF).
Ryan serves generous givers throughout Central Texas through NCF. He is passionate about helping givers experience the life-changing joy of generosity. He is focused on relationship development with individuals, families, professional advisors, and ministry leaders.
The National Christian Foundation offers creative solutions and tax-smart strategies to help individuals like you give more efficiently, to wisely steward all that God has entrusted, and to make the biggest possible impact in the areas of your greatest passion. Every day, we see hearts and lives changed through the joy of generosity!

GUESTS: Ryan Assunto
HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®
Mentioned In This Episode

Christian Financial Advisors
Website

Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

Ryan Assunto
Linkedin

National Christian Foundation
WebsiteFacebookXLinkedinVimeo

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.
SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

[INTRODUCTION]
Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.
Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.
Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?
Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.
[EPISODE]
Bob:
Matthew 25:35-40, “‘For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you invited me in. I needed clothes and you clothed me. I was sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you came to visit me. Then the righteous will answer him. ‘Lord, When did we see you hungry and feed you or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go visit you?’ The King will reply. ‘Truly, I tell you, whatever you did for the least of these brothers and sisters of mine you did for me.'”
Mary Jo:
In today’s episode of Christian Financial Perspectives, we’re going to discuss the joy of giving with our friends from the National Christian Foundation. The National Christian Foundation offers creative solutions and tax smart strategies to help you give more efficiently, to wisely steward all that God has entrusted to you, and to make the biggest possible impact in the areas of your greatest passion. Every day, we see hearts and lives change through the joy of generosity, and that makes me think about Luke 6:38, “Give and it will be given to you.”
Bob:
Our special guest is Mr. Ryan Assunto. He’s truly a brother in Christ I’ve gotten to know over the last few years. He’s president of the National Christian Foundation in Austin serving generous givers throughout Central Texas. Ryan is truly passionate about helping givers experience the life changing joy of generosity. He’s focused on relationship development with individuals, families, professional advisors, and ministry leaders. He’s a graduate of Texas A & M University.
Mary Jo:
Gig ’em, Aggie’s.
Bob:
There you go, Mary Jo! That’s right. With a BA in communications from Dallas Theological Seminary and a master’s degree in biblical counseling. His career includes experience in vocational Christian ministry as a professional counselor and college pastor, as well as significant involvement in multiple facets of the residential and multifamily construction industries.
Mary Jo:
Welcome, Ryan. To kick us off, why don’t you start by telling us a little bit more about yourself and the National Christian Foundation.
Ryan:
Well, thanks guys. It’s a blessing to be with you today. here at NCF, we are blessed to be the eighth largest public charity in the United States. We were founded in 1982 by three gentlemen, Larry Burkett, Ron Blue, and Terry Parker. And in our history we have been able to receive about $13 billion worth of charitable gifts and send out over $10 billion in grants to charity. So, we’re a donor advised fund sponsor who also facilitates asset based giving. Again, we’ve been blessed to support over 55,000 charities in our history.
Bob:
Ryan, whenever I tell somebody about the National Christian Foundation and I mention the name Larry Burkett in the Christian community, people go, Oh yeah, I remember him because of his radio programming for so many years.
Ryan:
That’s right. Larry Burkett had been a super influential individual in many lives and has several people who are operating in the same vein today, such as Dave Ramsey and a handful of others who just continue to teach our Church, with a capital C, how to combine their faith with their finances in a way that honors God.
Bob:
Hey, I like it when you say that because that’s what we’re all about. Our logo is integrating faith and finance. So Ryan, what is the purpose of the National Christian Foundation?
Ryan:
Well, when you talk about purpose, you talk about our vision and our mission, and at the National Christian Foundation, our vision is to see every person reached and restored through the love of Christ. That’s a big vision that sounds probably larger than what a typical community foundation would have. But again, we see ourselves as a part of the Church, the capital C Church, worldwide who is looking to see people come to know Jesus and be redeemed and restored in him. Our particular mission, what we do is we help mobilize resources by inspiring biblical generosity. So, we come alongside generous Christian families to help them find creative ways to simplify their giving and multiply their impact.
Bob:
Ryan, I understand that the National Christian Foundation has offices from coast to coast. Can you talk a little bit about your structure and how that works?
Ryan:
Yeah, I’d be glad to. So we have a national office that is in Alpharetta, Georgia, just North of Atlanta. We have about 30 local offices across the country. So in most major metropolitan areas, NCF has a presence. And the great thing about our structure is that we have the size and scale of a large, national, community foundation with tremendous reach and resources. And then we have the small and intimate personal relationships that you get when you go to work with a local community foundation, people who know your community, people who know the nonprofits in your community, people who know how to share a true ministry of generosity in the local markets where they serve.
Mary Jo:
And you’re in Austin, Texas, isn’t that correct?
Ryan:
That’s correct. I’m in Austin, Texas, and personally I have givers all across Central Texas. So really from down in the Valley to up North to Austin, to the Texas Hill country and as far East as College Station. I’ve got some cohorts in the Houston area and Dallas area as well as one in Waco. And so our presence in Texas continues.
Bob:
Yeah. Ryan, don’t you have a local office in Houston too, right?
Ryan:
We do. We do, yeah. The Houston office has been significant really in the formation of our ministry in Austin. They planted the initial seeds to develop relationships with generous Christian families and have fund holders here in in the Central Texas area. And then they’ve handed those relationships off to me, really, in a spirit of generosity to continue growing and expanding our ministry in Central Texas.
Bob:
So this is truly a foundation that, when you look at it from the global scale, is very, very large. It’s nationwide and then it gets down to the smaller scale where you have divisions in different parts of the country that can help people with giving strategies right in their local market.
Ryan:
That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right, Bob.
Bob:
So one of your flagship things that I really know about the National Christian Foundation is what is referred to as the giving fund, which also in the industry we refer to it as a donor advised fund. So tell our listeners what is a giving fund, what’s the purpose of a giving fund, and what can it do?
Ryan:
Sure. So a giving fund is, you used the term correctly, Bob. It’s a donor advised fund. That’s how most people know it in the financial world. In house, we call it a giving fund because when you open a donor advised fund with NCF, you’re opening a fund truly with a giving partner. We are actively helping you find ways to get dollars to the charities and the nonprofits and the churches that God calls you to support. So we want to see your money flow. We want to see you give it away in a way that impacts your family and yourself and the world around you. So a giving fund, one way to think of it is like a charitable checking account. It’s a portal where you can make deposits or contributions and receive your tax treatment at the time of those contributions. Then over time, make grants to the charities you want to support. Maybe that’s your church, maybe that’s young life, maybe that’s the local humane society. It could be a lot of different charities. But basically, you’ve got one portal, one account, that is your giving fund where you put contributions in and then make grants out. The giving fund is particularly helpful at separating, or decoupling if you will, the tax benefits of charitable giving with the strategic granting that donors choose to make.
Mary Jo:
So if you don’t know where you want to give or you’re concerned that maybe, well I want to do this now, but next year I might have another cause that’s near and dear. Am I understanding it correctly that you can give now, but decide later where you want those specific grants to go.
Ryan:
That’s exactly right, Mary Jo. You can give now and make your decisions about specific granting later. That’s particularly helpful at this time of year. As we’re approaching the holidays, Christmas season, and New Year’s, we’re approaching the end of the year and people are usually thinking about taxes and they’re usually thinking about giving all at the end of the year and what this does, it helps to separate again, the idea that, Oh, it’s December 31st I better write a lot of checks or I better get my charitable giving done. Effectively, what happens is people make grants in a very reactive, not necessarily a very prayerful way, and what the donor advised fund or the giving fund allows people to do is to put all their charitable gifts in one place, get the tax treatment before the end of the year or whenever, and then really be prayerful and thoughtful and strategic about how much to give to particular charities and for what causes, and if you want to wait for other opportunities to arise like a summer mission trip or something like that that you want to support. You can do that with dollars that you earned in the previous year, so you match your income recognition to the tax treatment of your charitable dollars. But then again, take your time being thoughtful and strategic about where to actually make your grants.
Bob:
I’d like to throw something in here that a couple of years ago when we had a client that had sold a major business here in Central Texas, and he had this windfall of cash and he wanted to tithe off of that sale from his business, but he didn’t know where he wanted to give all that money to, but he needed the tax deduction for that year. So he was able to take that 10%. Actually, it was about 15%. I remember now it was about 15% from the sale of his business. He put that into his giving fund, and he is still giving to ministries to this day, and it’s been about four or five years ago now, from that giving fund.
Ryan:
That’s a great story, Bob, and a great reason why people give to donor advised funds, why they use these giving funds, and it’s frequently they need the tax deduction in a particular year, but they don’t want to just randomly write checks to charities. They want to take their time, they want to be strategic, or they want to set up a pool of capital that can be used for ongoing giving over a period of years.
Mary Jo:
With the new tax laws and the higher amount that’s needed to itemize deductions, how has this played into the amount people focused on in funding a donor advised fund?
Ryan:
Yeah, so if you’re concerned about kind of meeting the minimum, if you will, to itemize, what some donors will do is they’ll try to think through a couple of years of giving at a time, right? So, they can fund a donor advised fund with twice the amount they would typically give and then surpass the minimum required to able to itemize and then take two years giving that money away. Again, sort of stockpile on their own and their own account, and a couple of years later fund the donor advised fund again with enough money to get past the itemization. You frequently see people using donor advised funds in an increased capacity because of the new tax law because it allows them to bundle their giving into a year where they can surpass the minimum needed to itemize.
Bob:
Yeah, and that really holds especially true. We’ve been talking about this a lot, Ryan, Mary Jo and I have, with the new deduction now. The top having to be $24,000 for a couple. Let’s assume a couple has everything paid off. They don’t really have a lot of itemized deductions, and their income is say $100,000 a year, so they’re used to giving around $10,000 a year from just the tithe part of it. This year, it’s not going to be deductible or even get close to that because they’re not going to reach that $24,000, so they could double up on their giving in one year. This is what we’re talking about when you hear this.
Mary Jo:
Well, you’ve shared with us about the giving fund, but you also have the cornerstone fund. What’s the difference between those funds?
Ryan:
So, the cornerstone fund is really built for families who want to use a donor advised fund as a substitute for a private foundation. So they’re looking to stockpile assets that will be given away over long periods of time. The typical cornerstone fund holder is looking to carry a balance of, I would say 2.5-2.6 million dollars, and they’re looking to keep that fund not necessarily whole, but they’re looking for those assets to be used over a long period of time for charitable purposes. So, the cornerstone fund has a few other features to it that allow for some family funds, meaning your kids can have funds sort of underneath it in a nesting fashion. You’ve got some international granting capabilities with the cornerstone funds that are unique. We’re looking into some investment opportunities that are unique in the cornerstone fund environment. But again, they’re really built for givers who are looking to build a reservoir from which to give over years and years and years.
Mary Jo:
Excellent. As we’ve been talking, something’s occurred to me. You look at the giving fund or setting up a donor advised fund, and you want to fund that each year with whatever you’re going to be allocating towards charity. But what if you plan to give each year, but say you don’t have children and you’re not leaving anything to the next generation, but you want to be able to have your secondary beneficiary to be charitable organizations. Could you then instead use your giving fund as that beneficiary?
Ryan:
Absolutely, and that’s another great use of a giving fund. You can include the giving fund in a will or as a beneficiary on a life insurance policy or a lot of other scenarios that come into play when you think about end of life giving, and what that does is it really makes your estate planning and your estate documents simple. Instead of listing four or five or six different charities in your will, and then let’s say there’s a change at one of those charities, change in leadership, change in direction, something comes up and that’s not the charity you want to support anymore. You’d rather support a different charity. Well, then you’ve got to go rewrite your will, but if you simply insert as the charitable beneficiary of your will a giving fund, then you can handle all your succession planning in house with NCF and let us know when the time comes how you would like those funds distributed. We can take charge of that. We have a charity research team that does due diligence on all of our nonprofits that we support. We can fulfill your wishes in just a streamlined fashion that doesn’t involve going back to your will every time there’s a change in charitable desire.
Bob:
This is one of the main things that we’ve done for our family. We call it the Barber family giving fund. We have in our estate right now that 20% of that will go to the giving fund. It’s not just good for the estate and good for helping others, but it also definitely creates a giving mindset in your children because now your children are going to be giving away that money.
Ryan:
That’s right. One of the great things about planning in this way is the effect it has on your family. It begins to be very clear to your kids, to your heirs, whoever they may be. When you set up intentional, proactive, charitable giving in your will, it communicates a value and it communicates a desire that is well beyond simply leaving your kids a big pile of money. It communicates something that may be much more valuable to them in the long run about how to live and about how to find joy and about how to walk with God generously in this life.
Bob:
You’ve talked about the different types of funds that you have. How can people fund these funds besides just cash?
Ryan:
Right? Yeah, so that’s a great question and one that we love to help donors sort through. The statistics, Bob, are that in the US, wealth is held primarily in two ways – in non-cash assets and then cash assets. Cash assets actually make up a very small percentage of American wealth. Only 10% of wealth in the US is held in cash, leaving 90% to be held in something other than cash. Oddly enough, when you look at charitable giving statistics, 80% of all charitable gifts come out of cash, and 20% come out of non-cash. So what we see, and this is the great tool the donor advised fund, is that most people aren’t thinking about their real sources of wealth when it comes to charitable giving. We like to help people think through what does it look like to give to the Kingdom everything that God has entrusted to me. What does it look like to give from everything he’s put in my hands? So, we can help donors think through highly appreciated stocks and bonds, publicly traded securities. We can help people think through required minimum distributions from an IRA. We can also help people think through how do you handle private business ownership? How do you handle real estate holdings? How do you handle intellectual property or mineral rights or some other income producing asset that might be useful in the kingdom and advantageous to use for giving funds?
Mary Jo:
And you have a lot of experts on staff that can help kind of unwind some of those. It would be much easier for somebody that doesn’t know what to do with those assets. Am I on the right track there?
Ryan:
You’re exactly on the right track, Mary Jo. We have an in house team of legal experts, probably about a dozen gift planning attorneys that look at assets for the purposes of charitable gifting all day long, and so that in house expertise is really one of the things that sets National Christian Foundation apart from other donor advised fund providers. We can come alongside a generous, Christian family and evaluate what you own and how you own it so that we can see how it may be used for kingdom purposes, how it may be used for charitable purposes, and managing the legal implications of ownership and the tax implications of charitable ownership as what we do in house every day. And so that internal expertise is really a lot of the reason why people come to work with NCF.
Mary Jo:
I know that we’ve talked about giving highly appreciated stock to a fund such as this, but I would also imagine that for those families that have a concentrated position, and especially one that’s an emotional, they have an emotional attachment to a specific stock. Say it was one they inherited from their grandfather or their grandmother or that their father had bought and held forever. So, they’re reluctant to sell that, but if they could donate that to a fund and then continue to benefit the kingdom with those assets, it might help relieve them of some of that emotional turmoil. Does that make sense?
Ryan:
Absolutely, Mary Jo, and you and you make a great point. We do get attached to our stuff. That’s a cultural norm and something which, whether you’re deeply mature Christian believer or not, it’s a struggle that we all have. We get attached to our things. As we really make the spiritual shift towards understanding that it’s God who owns everything. It’s God who gave us everything we have, right? All of this belongs to him. And when you start thinking about what do we do with the stuff that God has put in our hands, you really have to start to ask the question, well, if God owns the stuff, maybe I should ask the owner of the stuff what he wants me to do with it. And so as people began to really understand “their” assets as God’s assets, then there’s a shift that you can make that really sets you free to pursue joy and purpose. And once you are walking in that freedom, you’re able to make some really exciting and encouraging decisions about the things God has put in your hands, whatever their earthly source may be, right? If it’s your grandfather’s stock or whatever it may be, you’re really able to make some better decisions. As you look particularly at stocks that might be handed down, the significant thing to realize from a stewardship perspective is that if you were to sell those stocks, then you’d have a tremendous tax burden. But if you gave those stocks, you actually get a tax deduction that’s helpful for you. And then we, as a charity, liquidate those stocks free of any capital gains exposure, typically. You have that whole value to go to kingdom causes, to go to the nonprofits that you and your family would have wanted to support.
Mary Jo:
I love that, and it’s such food for thought. As we were preparing for this week’s episode in our discussion with you, Ryan, there was something that was on my heart. We talk mostly about what God’s word says about money, and we often refer to scripture in our podcast, but there is a quote from Winston Churchill that I like that I thought I’d share with our listeners. “You make a living by what you get, but you make a life by what you give.” I just think that’s so profound.
Bob:
Ryan, I know you’ve had some interesting stories already about some creative ways that Christians have given, but can you share some stories of an actual family, without giving away their nam,e and maybe a company that they gave to the Lord or just anything that’s unique that you could tell us about? Cause I know you’ve got some great stories.
Ryan:
Yeah we do. We’ve got so many stories. My biggest question, Bob is how long is your podcast? Because the Lord has really brought some neat people our way that we’ve been able to serve and come alongside of. And what I love about our work at NCF is National Christian Foundation is never the hero of any story. God is the hero of the story. The families that we work with are really the players and we’re just trying to help them do what God has called them to do. A lot of families come to us because their giving is complicated. So, the giving fund helps them simplify their giving. On one level you might be a family that is trying to give generously and trying to support all the charities you can. Come tax time, you’ve supported 15 or 20 or 30 different charities throughout the course of the year. It’s kind of a hassle to go back and find all those receipts and to report on all of that. So if you want your deduction, you’ve got to go dig through all that paperwork. On the simplest way, the giving fund helps you minimize all that paperwork where you now have one receipt to go get, right? And so for many families, they find themselves more free to give because the process is simplified. They’ve got one fund, they’ve got one portal, through which all of their charitable giving flows. And so when they need to think about what are we doing with our charitable giving or they need to talk to their kids about what we want to do about charitable giving or even just analyze where they’ve given over the last three to five years to know what’s happened to this money that we’ve sent away. If you’ve centralized it in one place, the giving fund really helps you connect your heart to your charitable giving. I don’t even know the number of families that have that story, right. My giving was super complicated and all of a sudden the open this donor advised fund, and I found more joy and more freedom and more intentionality just because it was all held in one place. So, we love those stories. Those are fantastic. On a bigger scale, we’ve got a donor who has believed forever that God owned his business and gave super generously from that business. His business grew and became a significant issue from a tax and a state perspective, and his attorneys came to him and said, we realize you believe that God owns your business, but the IRS thinks that you and your brother each own half. So, he went looking for, well, what do we do about this? If somebody dies, then we’re going to have to sell the business to pay the taxes. That was the problem. The solution eventually became, let’s give away the business. And so they did. And there’s tremendous dollars that flow to charity and nonprofit causes every year because of this gentleman’s generosity. And I got to spend some time with his son a couple of months ago. And the great thing about being with a son was the son’s story is, Hey, I could have been the heir to a business that has a value of nine figures, and that could have all been mine, but my dad gave it away. This son was not at all upset. He did not at all feel slighted. He felt like his dad made the biggest investment in him, as the son, that he could have made when he gave the business away because his dad was handing him a value of eternal significance as opposed to a bank account that he could squander pretty quickly if he wanted to. It was amazing to me to see the transformation in the second generation, the transformation in the son as he reflected on his father’s generosity and really the mess he knew he could have made with the money, but that his dad protected him from by making kingdom minded decisions before it ever had a chance to go awry.
Bob:
That is extremely powerful, and I hope everybody got that because so many times people fear about giving to organizations that have an internal impact over giving to their children. And this is a good example of it didn’t hurt the child at all.
Ryan:
No. In fact, the child would say it was a major help, right? It was the opposite of hurting. It was a positive experience for him to really learn and lean into a lifestyle that had real value.
Mary Jo:
Money does strange things to people. You’ve heard that said many times, but I would offer that giving does wonderful things for people. It brings such joy to your heart. That’s a great story, Ryan. Thank you for sharing it. Now, I’ve also heard about gift annuities. So can you tell us a little bit about those, what they are, and how they work?
Ryan:
Sure, sure. So charitable gift annuities, they fit in a category of what we in the charitable giving landscape call a ‘split interest gift’. And what that means is you want to make a charitable gift, but you also need to account for, in your own life, circumstances and income needs that may arise. None of us know what the future holds, and so it’s wise to plan for taking care of yourself and taking care of your family as you go through life. And so charitable gift annuities really helped people who have a need for a guaranteed income stream, right? Like an annuity provides, but they also want to make a charitable gift, hence the term split interest gift. A charitable gift annuity benefits both the original donor and charities that they want to support. So, you’ve got two different interests at play. You can fund a charitable gift annuity with a lot of different vehicles. Cash is only one, but you can also use stocks and privately held business and real estate to fund a charitable gift annuity. And when you do that, you have a guaranteed income stream for life. Then a remaining value that is allocable to charity, and what we do at NCF with our charitable gift annuities is that we take that remainder value and we make it usable to the giver upfront when they purchase the charitable gift annuity, so they don’t have to wait to make their charitable gift after they pass. They began to be able to support charities immediately with the value that is expected to be there at the end of their lifespan. We forward those dollars to a giving fund, and they can start supporting the charities of their choice immediately while receiving a guaranteed income stream for the rest of their life.
Bob:
December is the month where we come together to celebrate the birth of Christ. It’s always a magical time of the year when people open their hearts to giving. Is this one of the busiest times of the year for opening those donor advised giving funds?
Ryan:
It is. This is a great time of year to open a giving fund. Again, the main idea of a giving fund is it helps generous, Christian families decouple the tax implications of charitable giving from the strategic granting they want to make. So what we would say is open your fund, fund it right now at the end of the year. Take the tax conversation off of the table. Give away everything that you want to give away now at one time and then take your time. Be prayerful, be thoughtful, be strategic about what charities and churches and nonprofits you want to support and to what degree. How big should those checks be? Don’t just write random size checks because it’s the end of the year. Open a giving fund and decouple the tax implications of charitable giving with the strategic grants that you and your family wish to make.
Mary Jo:
Ryan, so we’ve talked a lot about ways to give and very unique ways to give. What else would you want to share with our listeners today?
Ryan:
I would say if you’re ever faced with the opportunity to sell an asset for an appreciable gain, whether that’s a business or a publicly traded stock or real estate, then consider giving that asset or a portion of that asset before the sale. If you’re going to sell a business and be charitable on the backend, then we would say give the business on the front end, part of the business on the front end, and let us help you save taxes and give more. Giving an asset before a taxable event is largely, wildly more advantageous than selling the asset and giving the cash later.
Mary Jo:
I think that’s pretty powerful.
Ryan:
Well, I want to thank our special guest today, Ryan Assunto from NCF, the National Christian Foundation. We’ve talked a lot about creative ways to give financially, especially here at the end of the year, including your time and your talents. We want to emphasize here that if you need any help with this, of course feel free to give us a call at 877-71-TRUTH or (877) 718-7884, and Mary Jo and I can talk to you how about some great strategies to multiply your giving.
Mary Jo:
As we wrap up our show today, we just want you to think about saying yes to God. When our giving glorifies God, it’s a win-win. It’s a win for you and a win for the kingdom. In 2 Corinthians chapter 9:7, “For God loves a cheerful giver.” How could generosity change you over the coming years?
[CONCLUSION]
Mary Jo: You’ve been listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us as we explore more about how to apply biblical wisdom to your financial situations.
Bob: To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts, you can subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. To learn more about integrating your faith with your finances, visit out website at ciswealth.com or call 830-609-6986.
Mary Jo: That’s all for now.
[DISCLOSURES]
Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor. The information in this broadcast is not intended to be tax or legal advice and may not be relied on for the purpose of avoiding any federal tax penalties. You are encouraged to seek tax or legal advice from an independent professional advisor. The content is derived from sources believed to be accurate. Neither the information presented nor any opinion expressed constitutes a solicitation for the purchase or sale of any security. National Christian Foundation, like all charities, is being compensated for their activities.
34 min
December 11, 2018 Podcast Episode 13 – The Emotional Investor
This week, Bob and Mary Jo discuss one of the most fascinating aspects of investing - how emotions and FEAR can control investment decisions. More often than not, investor’s behavior is fueled by emotions. As a result, they tend to buy high and sell low which is the exact opposite of what you want to do.
25 min
December 11, 2018 13 – The Emotional Investor
Click below to listen to Podcast Episode 13 – The Emotional Investor
Podcast Episode 13 – The Emotional Investor

Learn about the rollercoaster of emotions that may appear when it comes to investing.

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This week, Bob and Mary Jo discuss one of the most fascinating aspects of investing – how emotions and FEAR can control investment decisions. More often than not, investor’s behavior is fueled by emotions. As a result, they tend to buy high and sell low which is the exact opposite of what you want to do.
The markets are like an elevator…ever notice how they soar to all new highs and then plunge to negative territory? Knowing what emotions correspond with market highs and lows is the first step to being aware of how to better control emotional decisions when it comes to your investments.
We have a wonderful chart that Christian Financial Advisors has been using for many years when educating our clients. It is a study of over half of decade of investor responses to extreme market conditions. If you are interested in our complimentary “Cycle of Market Emotions” chart, please contact our office at 830-609-6986 or visit our contact page.

HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®
Mentioned In This Episode

Christian Financial Advisors
Website

Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®
DALBAR Quantitative Analysis of Investor Behavior
DALBAR Quantitative Analysis

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

[INTRODUCTION]
Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.
Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.
Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?
Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.
[EPISODE]
Bob:
Romans 8:14-16, “For all who are led by the spirit of God are children of God, so you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God’s spirit when he adopted you as his own children. Now we call him ABA father. Pour his spirit, joins our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children. In looking at this scriptural passage, fear, it actually makes us a slave, but as Christians, we are not to be fearful of our past, our present or future because God has it all and that’s faith and do we really believe that we belong to God and he owns it all. As Christians, we need to trust and biblical guidelines and know that they will work over time. There’s no room for doubt and this is where God has called us. As Christian advisors, we come along beside you and help you and keep you from making foolish, secular decisions if you’re following God’s guidelines and what do you have to be fearful of?
Mary Jo:
Oh Bob, that is so powerful and so on point with our podcast this week as we talk about the emotional investor. Another scripture that came to mind is 1 Timothy 6:17, “Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant, nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment.” In this week’s podcast, we’re going to be discussing one of the most fascinating aspects of investing, at least it’s fascinating to me, and how emotions and fear can control investment decisions. More often than not, investor’s behavior is fueled by emotions and as a result, they tend to buy high and sell low, which is the exact opposite of what we want to do. Investors, especially, react to the media hype and the noise that it generates. You know, Bob, I always look at this kind of like an elevator. Have you ever noticed how they soar to all new highs and then they plunge to negative territory?
Bob:
Yes, I do. I sure do. And the media loves using those kinds of terms.
Mary Jo:
They do. I don’t know where they come up with all these adverbs, but they’re used to instill fear and evoke emotion. It’s just a wonder we all don’t have whiplash as a result.
Bob:
You know, Mary Jo, when I start hearing all this stuff on the media, I go to my Netflix and watch the Andy Griffith Show.
Mary Jo:
Maybe Bewitched. I don’t know.
Bob:
Okay. All right. Some of those old ones that are fun. All right. Ecclesiastes 12:1 is another scripture I’d like to share before we get into this emotions and investing today. “Don’t let the excitement of youth cause you to forget your creator.” That is a real good one on point. I know, Mary Jo, that was one that you came up with. Investor behavior has been well documented and when it comes to money, we all tend to react with regret and over reaction, both on the upside and the downside. And this is why, historically, investor’s performance is usually worse than the market because it’s a timing thing. And casinos get this, they know that an occasional gambler will get lucky, but over the long haul, the house always wins.
Mary Jo:
I always get amused. We have some friends that really like to play Texas Hold’em, and they set aside a budget which is okay. But I kind of just laugh, because I know being an adviser that the house is always going to win, but they enjoy it. Bob, you mentioned how investor’s performance is typically worse than the market. There’s an annual study that advisors often refer to called the DALBAR Quantitative Analysis of Investor Behavior. It was recently published and confirm what we already know. Over the past 10 years, the average equity mutual fund investor has seen an average return of 4.9% compared to the S&P 500 return of 8.5%, and the average fixed income investor has seen an average return of only 0.48% compared to that of the Bloomberg Barclays aggregate bond index annual return of 3.31%. this same pattern has been illustrated year after year and shows how investor behavior is highly influenced by emotion. You talked about how investors performance is always typically worse than the market, and if you look back and you look for 20 years ending December 31st, 2015 the S&P 500 index average 9.85% a year, that’s a pretty attractive historical return. The average equity fund investor, however, earned a market return of only 5.19%, a little over 4% difference, and the average investor’s return is always worse than the market due to emotional reactions. Rather than buy low and sell high, they buy high and sell low because they just react with fear.
Bob:
Mary Jo, you and I have been around long enough that we can see this. I remember how investors got in 2008 and they begged me to get out and if I didn’t get them out when the market was down so much, they were going to go somewhere else. So, we were forced to move a lot of them out of the markets and then we missed that rebound. I, as an advisor, tried to keep them from doing it, but so many of them wanted to do that. One of the reasons for today’s podcast is we want to keep people from making those mistakes. We have a wonderful chart that we’ve been using around here for so many years when educating our clients at Christian Financial Advisors that we’re giving away in today’s podcast that illustrates the emotional cycles of investing and that’s what we’re going to share with you, all the emotional cycles that you go through investing. It’s a study of over half a decade of investor responses to extreme market conditions. So, the cycle of investing goes through a lot of different terms. The first one is going to be optimism and if you think about optimism, the definition of it is hopefulness and confidence about the future or the successful outcome of something, and this is one of the emotions that starts when the market is starting to move in an upward trend. You get that confidence about the future and you really feel good about it.
Mary Jo:
I think competence is the key there, and then the next emotion that investors tend to experience is excitement. It’s all going up. The market is rocking and rolling. The definition of excitement, a feeling of great enthusiasm and eagerness. Notice that the feeling is in there. Everything is, “How does it make me feel?”
Bob:
So far, we said hopefulness, confidence, great enthusiasm, eagerness, and then that next one is thrill. Bull market periods when the market seems to be going up indiscriminately. I mean no matter what you do, you can throw the darts at it and it’s going to go up. The definition of thrill is a sudden feeling of excitement and pleasure. It’s kind of like that sugar fix that you’ll get from some sweet tea or a big old piece of coconut pie. You’ll get that rush and you’re starting to get that rush and it overcomes you and your emotions now are starting to take effect.
Mary Jo:
Those endorphins in your body, and then we come to euphoria. You want to buy, buy, buy. It’s a period of overconfidence, actually, and the definition of euphoria, a feeling or a state of intense excitement and happiness.
Bob:
“Buy everything! I want all in!” is the next feeling. This is the point of the maximum financial risk when everybody wants to get in. Mary Jo, we’ve seen a lot of that in our real estate market here in Texas. I mean everybody thinks you just can’t lose. I mean my goodness has been good for 15 or 20 years. You can’t lose. That’s actually at the point of maximum financial risk is when everyone wants in, and the markets tend to be hitting peaks and valleys when buying and selling are at their highest, and you can see this based on volume at any given time.
Mary Jo:
The thing that came to my mind was the herd mentality. We as humans, we all perform like the herd. We want to do what everybody else is doing because it validates our decisions. It makes us feel better about them. But oddly, the next emotional feeling is anxiety. So, here we go with feelings again.
Bob:
This is when the market starts to go back down, right.
Mary Jo:
That’s right. The definition of anxiety, a feeling of worry, nervousness or unease, typically about an imminent event or something of an uncertain outcome.
Bob:
So, let’s say the market’s been going down for two or three weeks, and now all of a sudden you’re getting this anxiety, then we have denial. This can’t be, and you have regret. And that definition of denial is the action of declaring something to be untrue.
Mary Jo:
Ah, that’s right. Let’s go back. We’ve had optimism, excitement, thrill, euphoria, buy everything – I want all in, anxiety, and denial. Our next emotion is fear. Bear markets. Investors read stories about a bad economy and market volatility. They begin to experience fear regarding their investments. The definition of fear, an unpleasant emotion caused by the belief that someone or something is dangerous, likely to cause pain, or a threat. And this reminds me of another scripture that I think is relevant here. It’s from Psalms 34:4, “I pray to the Lord and he answered me. He freed me from all my fears.”
Bob:
Then we go into the next one as we’re going down, down, down. Desperation, what should I do? And there’s the definition of desperation is a feeling showing or involving a hopeless sense that a situation is so bad, it’s impossible to deal with.
Mary Jo:
So the next comes panic. The definition of panic – sudden uncontrollable fear or anxiety, often causing wildly unthinking behavior.
Bob:
Then the next one is I give up. Definition – cease making an effort, resign oneself to failure.
Mary Jo:
How many times have you heard clients say that? Get me out. I don’t want to be in anymore. Then comes hopelessness, despair, and the definition of hopelessness, a feeling or state of despair, a lack of hope.
Bob:
And here we go to the very bottom, and that is, “Sell everything I want out.” What’s interesting is it’s just the opposite of what we were talking about during the buy, buy, buy, which is the maximum financial risk and now it’s sell, sell, sell, which is actually the point of maximum financial opportunity. Listen to that. The maximum time that is the point at which you want to get in when everybody else wants out, and it’s going the opposite of the herd.
Mary Jo:
That’s it. The opposite of the herd. Once you hear about everybody else doing one thing, you want to be doing the other. And you know, I used to have a friend who was a trader on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, and he always would say, “There’s always somebody else on the other side of that trade. So every time you want to sell, there’s always another investor wanting to buy because they see opportunity where you see fear.”
Bob:
So Mary Jo, this is going to take us into this, I guess this last part, right? Which is like, now what have I done?
Mary Jo:
Well, and then we have depression. Sell, sell, sell, the definition of depression, feelings of severe despondency and dejection.
Bob:
Okay, so here we go. Alright, we’re back in it. All this is so emotional, as you can tell, because now we start to see it come up a little bit. I have a little bit of hope, and there’s that feeling of expectation and a desire for a certain thing to happen, really hoping it’s going to come back up.
Mary Jo:
The next thing we feel is relief. The definition of relief – a feeling of reassurance and relaxation following release from anxiety or distress.
Bob:
Mary Jo, there’s so much emotion in this. It’s crazy, isn’t it? And then we start to hit back in. We’re starting to go back up. We’re getting that optimism. The definition of optimism – the cycle starts all over again, and that definition is hopefulness and confidence about the future or the successful outcome of something.
Mary Jo:
An interesting takeaway from this study, it’s something that I refer to as loss aversion. Simply put, when we make decisions, losses always loom larger than gains. We remember how the loss has made us feel a whole lot more than we remember how the gains made us feel, and this has huge implications for investors.
Bob:
Emotional investing is about timing. The lag between when an event occurs, when it is reported, and when the opportunity is gone can be a very short window. I want to read that one more time so you can get that. The lag, when an event occurs, when it is reported, and when the opportunity is gone can be a very short window. Typically, when you start hearing about it in the media, the opportunity has already come and gone. Remember, if you’re hearing about it when everyone else is hearing about it also, like the daily stock market report, it feeds off that activity occurring throughout the day and it can create a buzz for investors that can be outdated or short-lived or even nonsensical or based on rumors, and it’s best to avoid that noise. Mary Jo, I see this a lot in how they’ll talk about the futures in the morning, and you’ll see this huge swing in futures before the markets even open.
Mary Jo:
In anticipation. That’s why it’s so important to develop a relationship with a trusted advisor and preferably a Christian advisor. Together, you create an investment strategy that meets your risk tolerance and your timeframe. Again, you want to make sure that all your investments meet your risk tolerance and your timeframe, so the advisor’s role, our role, is to provide discipline and logic and reason. So if your situation hasn’t changed, then you should simply stick to your plan, with some minor tweaks along the way as market cycles indicate. We look at these as opportunities to rebalance your portfolio, sell the asset classes that are up, and add to those that are down.
Bob:
it. Isn’t that what you want to do? You want to sell when you’re up and add to those that are down, which takes the emotions out of it and the herd mentality away from that too.
Mary Jo:
Absolutely.
Bob:
Asset allocation is a strategy that most advisors like to use to help diversify an investment portfolio, and this idea is to spread your money across many different types of investments with the thought that these investments behave differently at different phases of the market cycle. This really goes along with the scriptural guideline that Solomon, one of the wealthiest men of all time, says in the word of God. Ecclesiastes 11:2, “Divide your investments among many places, for you do not know what risk might lie ahead.” With this approach, something is usually working in your favor because not everything will be down at once. Sub sectors of the market’s favor different market conditions, so a diversified portfolio may provide protection during many different kinds of markets. And this is what we call around here, modern portfolio theory, and it’s a science we use to help us manage our biblically responsible investment portfolios at Christian Financial Advisors. So to give you an example of this, let’s take a $100,000 investment that you’re going to put aside for 20 years to grow. And we take that $100,000, and we divide it into five different pieces. So $100,000 divided by five would be $20,000. We put $20,000 in one investment, and we completely lose it all. We put $20,000 and another investment and we just break even. We put $20,000 in that third investment, we make an average of 5% a year. We put $20,000…
Mary Jo:
Which is how much Bob?
Bob:
How much does it grow to? $53,000. And then we put $20,000 that would grow at an average of an 8% return over 20 years grows to $93,200 and $20,000 at 10%, which is our aggressive side of the portfolio. It would grow to $134,550. What’s interesting in this, Mary Jo, I’ve really described a diversified portfolio because you’ve taken your $100,000 and divided into five different pieces into five different areas. Even losing a fifth of that and only breaking even with another fifth, the 3/5 that made 5%, 8%, and 10%, your portfolio grew at an average of return of 5.7% or that $100,000 grew to $300,000.
Mary Jo:
What you’ve described is really just a diversified, balanced portfolio. It’s been my experience over the years that this is probably the ideal approach for just about everyone. It doesn’t pay to swing for the fences being extremely aggressive. When you have this balanced approach, you’re going to have less market swings, and those won’t be nearly as low as a result. This is our process and this process trumps emotion every single time. It’s the difference between winners and losers, and it’s actually called discipline.
Bob:
We’ve been giving a lot of definitions here today. I’d like to share the definition of discipline since we’ve been sharing so many today.
Mary Jo:
I think we need a reminder.
Bob:
Discipline. The practice of obeying rules or a code of behavior. Investing without emotion is easier said than done. And we understand that. Mary Jo and I understand that because we help our clients deal with emotions. While there are times when active investing can be profitable, data shows that staying the course through periods of volatility actually often results in better results.
Mary Jo:
There’s an interesting chart that I like to use that I think tells this story very well. It shows the short term ups and downs of the market and these are measured by rolling one year returns over a 10 year period and then you overlay that with a graph that reflects the rolling window of annualized 10 year returns. Now, this 10 year line, this line’s pretty steady and it doesn’t have a lot of jagged edges, whereas the line that reflects the rolling one year returns, it has lots of ups and downs. It’s a very jagged line. That’s a whipsaw effect, if you will. I’ll take that smooth ride every time. I’m not much for roller coasters, and I just want to ask our listeners, what road would they prefer to ride on and I don’t mean with your Mustang or your hot rod.
Bob:
I love charts, and you can see this on a chart. If you condense that chart to just add it on a monthly level or even a biannual level versus looking at it over a 1 year, 5 year, or 10 year level, that chart smooths out so much more. That’s why the day to day fluctuations will drive you crazy. You’ve got to look at it on at least a 200 or 300 day moving average. And even a short term period, if you’re going to get concerned about something that’s happening over three or four weeks, look at it over a 30 day or a 50 day moving average, not a one day average.
Mary Jo:
No, and I certainly stress the long haul, and I really encourage clients to just not listen to the noise every day. It’ll make you crazy. If you have money that you’re going to need in the short term, and by the short term, I mean the next one year or two years, let’s say you’re generating income, you want to pull that out of your investments and have that in virtual safety so that it’s not at risk. If the money you need to live on is not at risk, then you can let the other go and just kind of let the market do its thing because you have a longterm view with that other bucket of money.
Bob:
As we come to the end, we’ve been talking about all the emotions involved. We have this chart called the emotional investor, and if you would like to call us and get a copy of this chart, we’ll be glad to send it to you. You’ll be amazed at how it all works together when you see it on a chart, and I’d like to leave you today with this scripture in mind and encourage you. Psalms 46:1-3, “God is our refuge and strength, always ready to help in times of trouble so we will not fear when earthquakes come and the mountains crumble into the sea. Let the oceans roar and foam. Let the mountains tremble as the waters surge.” It kind of takes us back to the very beginning, Mary Jo, of where I was saying our God is not a God of fear, and if we’re following the Biblical guidelines for investing, we should not fear. And we encourage you to work with a Christian advisor to create an appropriate investment strategy that meets your risk tolerance and your timeframe and hold the course. If we can help you, please give us a call.
[CONCLUSION]
Mary Jo: You’ve been listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us as we explore more about how to apply biblical wisdom to your financial situations.
Bob: To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts, you can subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. To learn more about integrating your faith with your finances, visit out website at ciswealth.com or call 830-609-6986.
Mary Jo: That’s all for now.
[DISCLOSURES]
Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.
25 min
December 04, 2018 Episode 12 – The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly Of Annuities
This episode discusses the good, the bad, and the ugly of annuities. Bob and Mary Jo cover what an annuity is and how they work in order to help you determine if an annuity is the right option for you.
21 min
December 04, 2018 12 – The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly Of Annuities
Click below to listen to Episode 12 – The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly Of Annuities
Episode 12 – The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly Of Annuities

Discover what an annuity is and how they work in order to help you determine if an annuity is the right option for you.

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This episode discusses the good, the bad, and the ugly of annuities. Bob and Mary Jo cover what an annuity is and how they work in order to help you determine if an annuity is the right option for you.
Annuities are designed to create a lifetime income stream, one that you can not outlive. However, that is not the only income option you have in most cases. The size of your income payments is based on a number of factors but mostly the length of time you will receive those payments and the type of annuity: fixed, variable, deferred, and/or immediate.

HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®
Mentioned In This Episode

Christian Financial Advisors
Website

Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

[INTRODUCTION]
Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.
Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.
Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?
Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.
[EPISODE]
Bob:
Mary Jo, today’s podcast is so important as we talk about annuities, the good, the bad, and the ugly. That’s the name of today’s podcast. Annuities: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly.
Mary Jo:
Sounds like a movie.
Bob:
Yeah. An old Clint Eastwood movie. I loved Clint Eastwood growing up. My wife, she laughs at me. She goes, how many times are you going to watch these Clint Eastwood movies? And I said probably about a hundred more times. All those spaghetti westerns.
Mary Jo:
They never get old. He and John Wayne.
Bob:
There you go. Yeah, I love them. I remember this movie, The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, and I wrote an article on annuities many years ago, and this is what I called it. I thought, what a great podcast this would be because this is good information that people can use. I know you have a great scripture that we’re going to start off today with that I’d like to hear.
Mary Jo:
Well, sure. I know how you love Proverbs and there are actually two of them that I think speak very closely to today’s topic. That’s Proverbs 26:23, “Smooth words may hide a wicked heart just as a pretty glaze covers a clay pot.” And then in Proverbs 27:12, “A prudent person foresees danger and takes precautions. The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.” So, given today’s subject, I thought those were very appropriate.
Bob:
I will tell you, Mary Jo, when I saw that you picked those two scriptures from Proverbs, I thought this is the most perfect scripture you could choose when it comes to talking about annuities.
Mary Jo:
Everything might have a real shiny package, but when you dig deep inside, the luster wears off. Before we get too much into the specifics, there are some key things we want to focus on today. We want to first look at what an annuity is. They’re insurance products that’s a contract between you and the insurance company. In exchange from a payment from you, either you can do that with a lump sum or series of payments. There’s all kinds of ways you can pay money into an annuity contract. In turn, the insurance company is guaranteeing to you a stream of money. You can take that stream of money or income out. Most people think of it for a lifetime. That’s typically what they’re designed to do is create a lifetime stream of income, but there are other ways you can structure that income. So, there’s multiple options.
Bob:
I think an income stream guaranteed for life, Mary Jo, is a good idea, but when it comes to annuities, you really have to look at the fine print of these contracts and all these underlying expenses of what you’re paying for to get that guaranteed income stream because there’s really no free lunch.
Mary Jo:
No, there isn’t, and you’ve heard us say this before if you’ve been listening to the podcast, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true. I think that’s an ongoing theme.
Bob:
Yes, I do. I agree with you there.
Mary Jo:
When you look at annuities, there really are four types of annuities. There’s a fixed annuity, a variable annuity, a deferred annuity, and an immediate annuity. Let’s touch on the fixed annuity first. How much you receive depends on whether you opt for a guaranteed payout. They’ll guarantee you a certain percentage. A variable annuity is one that the payout stream is determined by the performance of the underlying investments. That’s more of an investment vehicle. Then, a deferred annuity is when you invest money years ahead of when you plan to take it out in the way of income. It’s invested for a period of time and we would assume it would have a growth factor because you’re giving it up for that period of time. An immediate annuity is for your payment. Then, you can create an immediate stream of income. Typically, that’s a much larger sum of money. That’s kind of the landscape of annuities.
Bob:
In the last couple of years, because interest rates have been so low, the way that people have been trying to overcome that is by investing in these fixed indexed annuities that are tied to a certain index, like an S&P 500 index or a NASDAQ index or maybe an international index.
Mary Jo:
After 2008 when we saw that volatility, it really did scare a lot of people out of the market, but they still needed to create a retirement income. They were kind of at a loss, and a lot of them were very fearful and I think there were some unscrupulous people out there that kind of preyed on that and that mindset, if you will. A lot of people were looking for a flight to safety. The way they can describe it, the language they use when talking about these fixed annuities, attracted a lot of people. I’m working with a client right now that has everything for retirement in these annuities. He jumped out of the market and loved that idea of the guarantee, because he just couldn’t take it anymore after the volatility in the market. Now, he realizes the market has been rocking and rolling for the last five or six years, and he’s missed out. Now, he realizes that was probably the biggest mistake that he made and he’s looking at how he can unwind it, but he’s faced with these big fees. I’ll let you continue on about the fees.
Bob:
So many of these fixed index annuities, while he may have been invested in an index, they’re capped, and we’ll talk about that in a little bit. To your point, we’re going to have another market downturn. They always come, and it’s been a long time since we’ve had one, but I’ve noticed that from the last three market downturns and you and I have both been in this business long enough. I was there in the 87 downturn.
Mary Jo:
Yep.
Bob:
Then there was the major downturn from the internet bubble back in the 2000’s and then the 2008. After these downturns, you’ll notice that these annuities are very heavily marketed. Over the years and in increasing numbers, I’ve had many clients contact me about the opportunities for these types of annuities that they’ve heard either through a radio program, through the mail, or the free steak dinner.
Mary Jo:
We get those in the mail all the time. I’m like, do they know who they’re marketing to?
Bob:
That’s the big one and I mean these are steak dinners at some steak houses where it’s $40 or $50 per person, which tells me something. If the person who’s putting this on is paying $50 a person and you get 50 people there. Now, 50 x 50, that’s $2,500 plus the mailing costs. They’ll spend $4,000 – $5,000 in mailing costs because of the numbers, and direct mail doesn’t work very well today. That will push that cost up for them to put on one of these seminars, $7,000, $8,000, maybe $9,000. They’ve got to make their money back through selling annuities from the marketing costs. There’s a lot of important things to understand with these fixed indexed annuities before investing in them. I’m not against all these annuities. I’m not against all fixed index annuities. I’ve just seen a lot of abuse in marketing only the benefits. For years, we’ve looked at these. We’ve even placed a small portion of our client’s investible assets in them. We don’t really do that anymore because I think there’s some better ideas out there than investing in annuities, but for years we did a small portion to fit their investment objective. They still do have a roll for some people and in some cases.
Mary Jo:
Absolutely, Bob. I think you’re exactly right. Who doesn’t need a stream of income that they can’t outlive? As you mentioned earlier, it’s a good idea for some people some of the time.
Bob:
So now we’re going to share the good. You’re going to do that, then I’m going to share the bad, and then you’re going to come back in and share the ugly. So here we come to the good, the bad, and the ugly, right?
Mary Jo:
Exactly, and as I was just saying, many do offer a guaranteed minimum income, typically for life, and it’s based on the claims paying ability of the insurance company. If it’s got a high credit rating, that’s a good thing, but it might fit into your bad categories.
Bob:
That’s one thing you really want to look for. You want to look for a company that’s like A, AA, AAA rated.
Mary Jo:
I was looking at the statements from the client that I was referring to earlier and the companies that sold these annuities that he has. I had never heard of them, and I’ve been in this business a really long time. So what does that tell you? They may produce a better rate of return than today’s CDs, or savings rates, since interest rates are at historically low rates. That feels good on the surface, and they can create a predictable stream of income. That’s really important when you’re trying to come up with replacement income in retirement. There can be tax benefits. They grow in a tax deferred environment. We talked about the immediate annuity or the deferred annuity. You’re either giving a lump sum or paying in over time. That money continues to grow, and it’s in a tax deferred environment. So, you don’t have to pay taxes until you pull it out.
Bob:
And that’s one thing I like. I like the tax deferral part.
Mary Jo:
Absolutely. Now for the bad.
Bob:
So the bad. Well, the bad is many of these annuities, not all of them are like this, but many of them are very high commissions that are paid to the person selling them. Most of the annuities are sold by an insurance broker or salespeople who collect these commissions. Sometimes I’ve seen them as high as 10% of the amount invested. That means that somebody who’s investing $100,000 in an annuity, there’s a $10,000 commission paid up front to the person that put you in the annuity. Now, Mary Jo, you think of that right there compared to a fee based advisor who’s going to be making 1% a year. That would take 10 years to make 10% versus you’re making 10% in the first week that you put somebody’s money into the annuity. So, this can create a huge conflict of interest on the part of the person that’s recommending the annuity. I can see that you want to say something there too.
Mary Jo:
Bob, one of the things I think is really important is that “sales person” and you can’t see me but I’m quoting in the air. That salesperson, they’ve made their money, so where is their incentive to give you ongoing service? I bet you’re not being treated like you would if you had that trusted relationship with an advisor that was there along with you throughout the process.
Bob:
The fee based advisors, most of the time, they’re operating on 0.5% or 1% of assets invested. They’re participating in the growth, too, so they have a vested interest in seeing you do well over that 10 year period that it would take for them to make what the annuity salesman could make in the first day of putting you in that annuity. Also, the bad is the large surrender penalties that can apply to early withdrawals. And the reason the surrender penalties are there is, you think about it, if the insurance company is taking in $100,000, but they’re having to give $5,000 or $10,000 to the person sold the annuity, well you can’t turn right back around and just take a $100,000 out because the annuity company is not even keeping that $400,000. They’re giving 5% of that or 10% of that or 8% of whatever that commission may be, but they are typically between 5-10%. They’re giving that to the representative. The way that they make that back is over a period of time. And those surrender penalties sometimes can be as long as 10-15 years. I’ve even seen them last a lifetime.
Mary Jo:
It’s just amazing.
Bob:
Yeah, it is. And then the third of the bad is because of the low participation cap rates today and returns. Many of the times, these fixed index annuities do not even keep up with inflation, which can deteriorate your future purchasing power over the long term. So, even though you may be investing in the S&P 500 index, the cap rate, which might be 3%, if the S&P 500 index goes up by 10%, you’re only going to make 3%.
Mary Jo:
So you’re partially participating in it.
Bob:
Yeah, that’s right. Now, the good thing is if the S&P 500 lost 10 you’re not going to lose 10 but the majority of the time the markets are up and then you had that one or two years every 10 years or so where it’s down.
Mary Jo:
So you’re protected on the downside, but you’re really limited on the upside and that’s how they make their money.
Bob:
So we’ve shared the good, the bad. Now, you’re going to share the ugly.
Mary Jo:
One of the things is, and we’ve talked a little bit about this in the past, and that is the oversight that happens in our industry and the oversight for these, what we call sales people that sell the fixed indexed annuities, they are not securities licensed typically. In other words, they don’t have a securities license to be able to offer stocks, bonds, or mutual funds in addition to the index annuities. Typically, those people only have insurance licenses. They don’t have the level of supervision and compliance oversight that we would as investment advisors or registered investment advisors. So anyone who is securities licensed, they are under compliance disclosure guidelines that they must follow. I know Bob and I, we are always going through continuing education. We have to go through videos. We have to go through training from compliance on all the ins and outs, rules, and regulations regarding all of these annuities. And it’s something we constantly have to attest to. Another thing that we have to go through as advisors is if a client comes to us with an annuity, well we have to write, it seems like a book these days, to justify moving them into another product. Our regulators are looking for every rationale as to why we no longer think this is a suitable or an appropriate product for that client and why we’re going to recommend something else. There is a lot of hoops we have to jump through because we’re so highly regulated. I think you’ve heard us talk about the fiduciary standard. That means that all of our recommendations must always be in the client’s best interest and as registered investment advisors, Bob and I are always held to that higher standard of care. So, that’s one of the key things that I think fits into the ugly category on these annuities.
Bob:
Some other things that fit into the ugly category is be careful of the numbers that you see on a proposal if you can also not see what can be liquidated as cash on a year by year basis. There’s a lot of different ways that annuity companies structure surrender penalties that can be very confusing to people. You know, look at your rate of return based on what is actually convertible to cash, not just the account value you see on a statement because your actual rate of return is based on what you can liquidate for cash at any point in time. So, let me give you an example of this. A fixed annuity saying is paying a 6% simple interest rate. You put in a $100,000. At the end of 10 years based on just simple interest, not compounded, that $100,000 should be worth $160,000 because if you take 6% of a 100,000, it’s making 6,000 a year times 10, that’s 60. You add it to the 100. That’s 160, but after 10 years, if you could only surrender that contract for $120,000, this really computes to a 2% simple interest rate, not 6%. Now, if you want to make the 6% simple interest in this example, you can many times only withdraw a small percentage from the annuity each year of the contract value and you must keep the contract without surrendering it.
Mary Jo:
It’s typically 10% withdraw on an annual basis that you’re allowed to do without being impacted with the surrender charge. In conclusion, we’ve talked about the good, the bad, and the ugly, but one of the things we want to caution you against is if you encounter a salesperson who is only selling this one product, and that’s fixed index annuities, that should be a red flag. I think you’ve probably heard of the old saying, “If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” So, they have in their repertoire, they’re going to tell you this is the best solution for you. Well, in reality, it’s the only solution they have. We want to make sure that you recognize that for what it is. This will enable you to build a diversified portfolio. If you look at other things that you can invest in, those people typically don’t have access to other fee-based accounts, other managed accounts, IRA’s and 401k rollovers. They might not have access to simple and SEP IRA’s, and those are for small business owners. There’s there in the solutions that they have available to you.
Bob:
This can also include stocks, bonds, mutual funds, and real estate or commodities, gold and silver, and fee-based managed accounts. They can only offer that one thing. So, if you can only offer that one product, usually that’s what they’re going to recommend. For more information on annuities with many different types of guarantees for lifetime income options as part of an overall strategy, feel free to give us a call to schedule a phone or office appointment. We’re required to disclose all the costs and surrender penalties and fees associated with the annuities so that you can make an educated choice if this should be part of your overall plan.
Mary Jo:
And we always offer a free, initial consultation. This is for informational purposes only, not intended to be a buy or sell recommendation for any specific investment type or product. Everyone’s situation is unique. Annuities may or may not be an appropriate solution. Please talk to your investment advisor for advice on your personal situation.
[CONCLUSION]
Mary Jo: You’ve been listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us as we explore more about how to apply biblical wisdom to your financial situations.
Bob: To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts, you can subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. To learn more about integrating your faith with your finances, visit out website at ciswealth.com or call 830-609-6986.
Mary Jo: That’s all for now.
[DISCLOSURES]
Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.
21 min
November 27, 2018 Episode 11 – 25 Things to Consider When Investing
We cover what we consider the top 25 items to examine when it comes to investing in stocks and bonds, which is just the tip of the iceberg. Investing is about so much more than the stock market, and there are many things to consider when investing.
26 min

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Biblical wisdom for financial decisions and goals. Conversations about managing money according to Christian principles, featuring expert insights on budgeting, investing, giving, and building wealth…