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Christian Financial Perspectives

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Christian Financial Perspectives episodes

  • 26 – It’s All in the Family Part 2 of 2
    Click below to listen to Episode 26 – It’s All in the Family Part 2
    It’s All in the Family Part 2

    Tips for discussing your finances with your significant other.

    More episodes >>

    In Part 2 of our 2 part series “It’s All In The Family”, Bob and Mary Jo discuss the importance of having financial conversations with your spouse in a sensitive and productive way. Having these conversations is usually anything but easy. So, in order to better provide a simple way to begin these conversations, Bob and Mary Jo offer “10 Tips for Talking With Your Spouse About Money”.

    Talking about finances can be a taboo subject that is difficult to discuss. Let your partner know that you want to learn, and start the process slowly. Consider starting with, “Wouldn’t it be better if we started making financial decisions as a family? I’d like to help.”

    Get started today!

    HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®

    Mentioned In This Episode
    Christian Financial Advisors
    Website
    Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
    Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®
    Money And Marriage God’s Way
    Website

    Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

    SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
    EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

    [INTRODUCTION]

    Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

    Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

    Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

    Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

    [EPISODE]

    Bob:

    Genesis 2:24, “For this reason, a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife and they shall become one flesh.” This week, we’re going to continue our series on talking about talking. Talking with those you love about money, and we’re calling it “All In The Family.”

    Mary Jo:

    So last week, we discussed how to talk to your kids and your parents about money matters. In this week’s show, we’re going to explore ways to talk to your spouse about money matters. As we get started, there’s another scripture that I’d like to share. It speaks to being humble and gentle. This is so important as we face difficult conversations. And I will admit, it’s probably not my biggest strength, so I need to pray on that and get better at that myself.

    Bob:

    Amen. Mary Jo, I’m going to agree with you. Okay. It’s not my strength either, right? So I think we all just need to be humble here, and be transparent.

    Mary Jo:

    So from Ephesians 4 called “unity in the body”, “Always be humble and gentle. Be patient with each other, making allowance for each other’s faults because of your love. Make every effort to keep yourself united in the spirit, binding yourselves together with peace.”

    Bob:

    Let’s put that in big letters over our door post.

    Mary Jo:

    Over our threshold. Yes.

    Bob:

    Yep. You got it. As we talk about family and money, and last week, we talked about talking about money with your parents and your kids. Today, we’re talking about talking about money with your spouse, and this can be really hard. So you’ve got to do it with love within prayer, following God’s guidance and the Holy Spirit. This is so true in dealing with anything about your spouse. Like the scripture says, wives respect your husbands, husbands love your wives. And money challenges can create a true toxic environment in some homes, but it doesn’t have to. Many times, it’s one of the least discussed subjects in a relationship. And for many couples, it’s easier to hide it under their rug, avoid the elephant in the room, and just live in denial. But we’re hoping that you’ll keep listening today and follow with us because we’re going to give you some great information about how to talk with your spouse about money.

    Mary Jo:

    Bob, I have to think back as we get started on my own marriage of almost 37 years.

    Bob:

    That’s awesome. Mary Jo, congratulations. Anybody that can put up with you and Mike…

    Mary Jo:

    With each other.

    Bob:

    I’m just kidding you. I love both of you.

    Mary Jo:

    We realized how different things would have been had we been better equipped to deal with financial concerns and money management early in our relationship because we definitely struggled early on in that regard. And ironically so, as part of our wedding preparation, we were required to attend premarital counseling and participate in a series of meetings with a church sponsored couple, much like most young marrieds have to do now, I think. But what was really ironic about it is the husband of our sponsor couple was a banker, and he definitely talked to us about that. He shared how difficult money matters can be and proceeded to counsel us on how not to make common money mistakes. But he didn’t teach us how to talk to each other about money. We had very different money histories. We were raised very differently when it came to money. And so that was a challenge for us. Despite our best intentions, we made one financial misstep after another, and it took us a long time to learn better ways.

    Bob:

    There’s no perfect way. There’s no perfect right way to talk about it. There’s not one size fits all for this solution. I think the important thing to remember when you’re talking with your spouse about money, again, is pray about it. Talk about what’s important to you. Listen, listen, listen to the concerns of your partner. Remember, we have two ears and one tongue,

    Mary Jo:

    I’ve heard that. That’s funny, Bob, I’ve heard that said one mouth, but I liked the one tongue better.

    Bob:

    Yeah. And agree on that approach and really think about money issues. They can dredge up some bad memories from childhood. So be careful with that budgeting and discipline can also possibly feel like being controlled by the other spouse. Does that make sense, Mary Jo? Sure, absolutely. Have you heard the old saying what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is ours.

    Mary Jo:

    That’s how it works at my house.

    Bob:

    Yeah.

    Mary Jo:

    Is that how it is in your house? Wouldn’t Rachael say the same thing?

    Bob:

    She might, but this is interesting. This is interesting. This last point I want to make, one can be a spender and one can be a saver. And overboard, either one is not healthy, and I am very guilty of something, Mary Jo. I’m going to be transparent with our listeners. Here, I’ll get on Rachael about going and buying 3, 5, or 10 pair of dress shoes, but I’ll go buy the boat.

    Mary Jo:

    Exactly. Yes. You like those shiny toys.

    Bob:

    Exactly. So men, I’m speaking to you right now, our toys, when you add up the cost of that boat or that big truck, it’s much more expensive than shoes or some clothes. Yeah, that’s right.

    Mary Jo:

    All right. I always thought you can’t have too many shoes just like you can’t have too much money.

    Bob:

    One time I counted and I think I better not say it on the air, because if Rachael hears me say how many pairs of shoes she has, I might get in trouble and we’ve been married coming on 35 years, and I want to make it to 50.

    Mary Jo:

    Well, we’re working on downsizing and I haven’t gotten to my closet yet, but money secrets are common in a lot of marriages. In fact, financial issues are probably the single biggest issue that end most marriages. So, I think that’s true. We’ve all heard that.

    Bob:

    Yeah, we have. We’ve heard over and over it’s one of the number one stats, right behind divorce.

    Mary Jo:

    Yes. And about 50% of all marriages end in divorce. A lot of it is due to money. So, for our listeners out there, I actually have two questions that I want them to begin thinking about. Have you ever cheated on your partner with money? Have you even hid money or purchases from your partner or your spouse? I’m talking about those tags that you’ve taken off the new clothes.

    Bob:

    You see me shaking my head. I mean, I’m like, Oh my goodness.

    Mary Jo:

    You’ve hidden it in your car or in the back of your closet. You know what I’m talking about.

    Bob:

    Wouldn’t you say 100% of everybody that’s listening to us has probably done this.

    Mary Jo:

    Oh, I know. They’re laughing.

    Bob:

    Unless you’re perfect. If you are, congratulations.

    Mary Jo:

    I noticed my husband went to the Apple store the other day to get a new battery for his phone. And I kept looking around, what else did you buy?

    Bob:

    Where’s the new phone? Not just the battery, right.

    Mary Jo:

    He says he only got a battery. So, that was a first, but I’ve actually heard this referred to as money infidelity. And doesn’t that just paint an unpleasant picture in your mind’s eye?

    Bob:

    You’ve gotta admit. Yeah. I mean, as you’re talking to me, I’m just thinking, I might be guilty of a little bit of this, but it’s interesting, Mary Jo. It was in our earlier years when we were married. Not now. Seriously, I mean, we’re transparent and we know exactly what each other’s doing, but there’s no doubt in the beginning years that can happen. Like I said, we’ve been married 35 years. I’m going to be transparent. But the arguments that we’ve had have always pretty much about money it seems like.

    Mary Jo:

    And that’s another podcast, but that is what has moved me to become a financial advisor and a financial planner because we did get in financial trouble early on in our marriage. And it took hard, hard work to get out of it. And it was a lesson learned. And now, I feel like that’s my passion. And thus, the podcast.

    Bob:

    I hope everyone’s hearing, and we’re just two people. We’re not perfect either. We’re walking in life with you. We just want to help you along the way. So, we’ve got 10 suggestions about handling money matters within a marriage relationship. I think this list is one of the best lists you can come up with for best practices for talking to your spouse about money. It comes from a lot of personal experience, learning what works and what doesn’t from clients, friends, family. And as your trusted advisors, we are often called on to play the role of a counselor mediator in working on these questions.

    Mary Jo:

    Bob, there’s a couple of housekeeping steps that I think are important for us to think about as we begin to work our way down this list. I would encourage all the couples out there to think about these. First, you want to create a safe zone. Agree to get it all out on the table. I call that opening the kimono. You’ve got to put it all out there, and agree to move forward in a positive direction together without judgment and without blame. Be honest with yourself about your own expectations. When families agree that one spouse is a stay at home parent, this is particularly important. If you’ve always been independent, it may be a shock to suddenly be in a situation where now you’re dependent on someone else financially. It may be equally hard for the working spouse to deal as if they are the sole provider. That’s a pretty weighty burden, if you will, for somebody. Another challenge is when one partner brings home significantly more assets to the relationship. How will you handle this? This is a delicate balance and requires a thoughtful approach.

    Bob:

    I think these are all great suggestions. So, let’s get to it. Here we go. Number one, schedule regularly, family financial huddles, where you agree to discuss your financial life together. I would recommend you either do this weekly or biweekly, but the more, the better, especially during times of financial stress, but you gotta let that stress kind of come down, too. I mean, we’re not talking every day because that could be very stressful, but be disciplined about it. And I know, Mary Jo, just from my own marriage in many years, is that my wife likes to talk about this, put it on a schedule. Don’t start talking about this at 10 o’clock at night.

    Mary Jo:

    Or Sunday evening before the work week.

    Bob:

    But put it on a schedule and say, “We’re going to talk about this, and today is Monday. We’re going to talk about this Thursday. And maybe we can go out and talk about it and make an evening of it. But we’re going to set this time aside.”

    Mary Jo:

    So important. The next one is to practice active listening skills. As Bob said earlier, you’ve got two ears, one mouth or one tongue. So you’re going to listen more than you talk. And if you don’t know what this is, there’s a lot of tools out there and you need to learn. There’s a lot of available resources. One other thing you can do to be helpful with this is to ask clarifying questions to make sure you understand what the other one is saying. And when they are talking, make sure that you allow them time to get it all out. You can just say something like, well, is there anything else? Is there anything else you want to say? And make sure that they’ve had a chance to voice what’s on their heart.

    Bob:

    it reminds me of the scripture about the tongue, and I wish I had it right on the tip of my tongue. I’m trying to think of it. Oh, okay. I think it’s in James 3, the tongue is like a small rudder. You’ve gotta be careful with that tongue because a rudder can steer a whole ship one way or the other. I think it’s in the third chapter of James, but I don’t have time to look it up exactly right now while we’re in the middle of our program.

    Mary Jo:

    Well, that’s a great analogy, Bob.

    Bob:

    So where were we? We’re on number 3. That’s right. Decide if you’re going to pool your resources, maintain separate accounts, or possibly a yours, mine, and ours approach. Agree on how much or what proportion is agreeable to fund the household bucket. So let me give you some examples of this. So you could have one account and say, this is for all our general bills, right? For like your utilities, your house payment, et cetera. And then you had this other account over here. This is going to be maybe our gifting account or you each have your separate accounts. It’s just going to be play money, and ask what you’re referring to. Yeah, that’s the point that we’re trying to get to here is it’s okay to have some play money, but not too much.

    Mary Jo:

    Well, it needs to be agreed upon.

    Bob:

    Exactly. That’s right.

    Mary Jo:

    And think about what you want your money to do for you, and make sure you share this with your partner. So get clear on your individual and joint financial goals. I think that is so important for any young couples, especially when they’re engaged, before you get married. So that’s one of the things when you’re looking for a spouse and you’re entertaining that idea is this the one. You want to understand what their financial goals are and what they want their life to look like so that you can determine if you’re compatible in that regard.

    Bob:

    Number 5 is kind of like the one that I was just speaking to before, but really agree on how much spending money you can each have discretion over, if any. It may not be any yet in the beginning until you really get that budgeting down. It’s important to feel as if you can spend without having to answer for every single penny. And that could start with $50 and it could go to a hundred. I mean, it could go as high as $500 depending on where you are, but this depends on your income level. It’s also about principle and sharing those common goals.

    Mary Jo:

    Recognize that emotions often run high during periods of stress. So when you’re having these conversations, agree to take a break when tensions escalate. Take a breather. Reflect on what has been said and agree on when to come back together. So, do you just need to take a coffee break or do you need to come back tomorrow when you’ve both had time to kind of calm down. Make it useful to you, but don’t let too much time pass by.

    Bob:

    Mary Jo. This reminds me. Don’t go digging up old graves that have already been buried. Okay.

    Mary Jo:

    There was a country song, “Digging Up Bones”, I think that was Randy Travis.

    Bob:

    I remember that. Sure do. Agree on a saving strategy, too. This goes back to sharing those common goals. Determine how you’re going to work for those goals, such as retirement, or maybe that second home someday, then ask yourselves how are you gonna handle your personal wishlist, such as the new mountain bike or those nice shoes.

    Mary Jo:

    Are you talking about the red high heels, Bob?

    Bob:

    You put that in there. Where did that come from?

    Mary Jo:

    I think it’s what every woman wants. Me not so much anymore, but there was a time back in the day. So, number 8, we also want to encourage you to be gentle, be kind, but especially be respectful and use the language of love. I was in a restaurant once and I heard this daughter talking to her mom. And the husband and she had been fighting and she says, she’s really trying hard to talk in a love language with their spouse. I just thought wow. That’s wonderful. I should go look that up. But it stuck with me.

    Bob:

    Yeah. It reminds me of the Fruits of the Spirit there. I was thinking of the scripture from Galatians 5:22, “But the fruit of Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control. Against such things there is no law. So think of think of that scripture. That scripture really goes with that number 8 there, doesn’t it?

    Mary Jo:

    It sure does.

    Bob:

    Number 9 is when you’re meeting and talking about money, use that time to discuss the challenges in regards to the kids and the parents as well, because you may be expected to help with those aging parents, and you need to come to an agreement early on about how you may handle that. Really get a good, clear understanding of each other’s situation, the family dynamics, and any expectations.

    Mary Jo:

    And finally number 10, create a balance of power in regards to money. It’s not fair that one spouse should shoulder all the responsibility. It’s also important that both spouses are knowledgeable. You don’t have to know how they built the clock, but you do need to know where the hands are and kind of how it generally runs. A power imbalance can have two very negative aspects. One spouse gets all the blame and the other one feels helpless, which only adds to the stress.

    Bob:

    Start this process slowly, as we come to the end here. Consider starting with wouldn’t it be better if we started making financial decisions as a couple and as a family. I’d like to help. Another approach is to let your partner know that you want to learn. “I’m concerned that I don’t know enough about our financial situation,” you might say. “I know I haven’t always made times for our finances, but I’d feel better if we shouldered this responsibility together.” And believe me, the spouse who has been taking care of all the finances will be glad to hear that.

    Mary Jo:

    There are a lot of great tools out there to help you along the journey. And one that we recommend is a book called “Money And Marriage God’s Way” by Howard Dayton. I’ve actually started giving this one out as an engagement gift or a shower gift for a lot of newly engaged couples. I’ve gotten a lot of great feedback from that. These conversations, they’re going to be anything but easy, and we encourage you to get started today. Bob, as we wrap up, are there any other ideas or suggestions you have for our listeners out there?

    Bob:

    Mary Jo, we’ve shared so much today. Maybe the suggestion would be if somebody would like to see this list, they could give us a call.

    Mary Jo:

    Oh, absolutely.

    Bob:

    And we’ll be glad to share it with them, because we’ve gone over a lot of things in this two part series “All In The Family”. So we’re here for you. We know that this can be a difficult subject, as we said earlier in the program today. It’s one of the major causes of divorce, and we know that money can be very hard to talk about, but we love you, and we’re here to walk beside you. Remember the scripture, Proverbs 15:22, “Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisors they succeed.” And we want to do it from a godly perspective.

    [DISCLOSURES]

    Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

    22 min
  • 25 – It’s All in the Family Part 1 of 2
    Talking about finances can be a taboo subject that is difficult to discuss. This difficulty is multiplied when it comes to discussing current financial situations and a financial future family members. In Part 1 of our 2 part series “It’s All In The Family”, Bob and Mary Jo discuss the importance of having these financial conversations with family members - specifically one’s parents and one’s children.
    23 min
  • 25 – It’s All in the Family Part 1 of 2
    Click below to listen to Episode 25 – It’s All in the Family Part 1
    It’s All in the Family Part 1

    Tips for discussing financial wishes with children and parents.

    More episodes >>

    Talking about finances can be a taboo subject that is difficult to discuss. This difficulty is multiplied when it comes to discussing current financial situations and a financial future family members. In Part 1 of our 2 part series “It’s All In The Family”, Bob and Mary Jo discuss the importance of having these financial conversations with family members – specifically one’s parents and one’s children.

    It may seem like a subject that is spent better talking about on a rainy day, but there is actually no time like the present to attack financial issues to try and make sure that your financial wishes, or those of your parents, are understood. Bob and Mary Jo share ways to discuss topics like estate planning with your family and how to approach this sensitive topic.

    HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®

    Mentioned In This Episode
    Christian Financial Advisors
    Website
    Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
    Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®
    Ep 16 – Procrastination
    Website

    Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

    SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
    EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

    [INTRODUCTION]

    Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

    Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

    Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

    Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

    [EPISODE]

    Bob:

    1 John 3, “Dear children. Let’s not merely say that we love each other, let us show the truth by our actions. Our actions will show that we belong to the truth, so we will be confident when we stand before God.”

    Mary Jo:

    Oh, those are great, Bob, great scripture choices for today’s episode. Bob, this week, we have something really important to share with our listeners, and that’s how to talk to the people we care about regarding money. Specifically, in this week’s show, we’re going to talk about talking. Talking to your kids, talking to your parents, and talking to your spouse about financial issues. And that one in itself is a pretty meaty one. So, I think we’re going to make this a series, and we’ll probably try to tackle that one next week. What do you think?

    Bob:

    I think it’s great. Yeah, let’s do a two part series. Today, we’ll share some ideas about talking to your kids and your parents. Now, wait a second. That’s different, isn’t it?

    Mary Jo:

    Yeah, it is.

    Bob:

    Because you think about it, our generation, well, I’m giving away our age now a little bit. Like my mom is still alive and I’ve got my children coming up, too. So it’s called the sandwich generation and more and more, the sandwich generation is getting larger because we’re living longer. Does that make sense?

    Mary Jo:

    Oh, certainly.

    Bob:

    Yeah. This week we’re going to be talking about the kids and the parents. And next week, we’re just going to talk about some ideas about talking with your spouse, which we know can be difficult because talk with your spouse can be a tough one. So we thought we’d devote an entire program to just having that money talk with your spouse. It sounds like fun.

    Mary Jo:

    Well, we’re going to try to make it more fun, and really kind of set the stage of why it’s so important. And we’re calling these episodes all in the family. So from experience counseling our clients, we know that money can separate families, but we also know that if there’s one thing families want more than anything, it’s harmony, but that does seem to be challenging. In some families, it’s more challenging than others. And yet communicating with those we love the most can, in many times, be just incredibly hard. So, Bob, do you think it’s impossible to actually talk about money and maintain harmony?

    Bob:

    Well, I don’t think it’s impossible, but it can be done. I think it has to be done in a loving way and very carefully. I think we need to start off in prayer before you want to talk to your family about it. Open up that communication barrier and try to get that barrier out of the way. Mary Jo, really be led by the Holy Spirit and watch our tongue, things that we might say that are hurtful. I was thinking about this. And when I was thinking about talking about this, I was thinking about James 3:9. And it says, “With the tongue, we can praise our Lord and father, but with it, we can also curse human beings who have been made in God’s likeness.” So we really need to be careful when we’re discussing this, to make sure that we’re in harmony with our family, because family harmony is really what God wants, but it doesn’t happen. It didn’t just come along easily, many times for many people. So it may take some effort, but Mary Jo, you and I as trusted financial advisors, we’re called upon to assist our clients with creating that legacy and help them talk openly about those financial issues. And we want to help them create a spiritual legacy, but we want to help them create that monetary money legacy for the family as well, if it’s done in a wise way. I just feel like we’re also counselors. Nathaniel just said today in our office, he said, you need to get a major in psychology and a minor in finance instead of the other way around. It’s interesting that you say that’s true because it really is.

    Mary Jo:

    Yes. Well said. I know some families don’t relish the thought of creating an open dialogue and having that discussion. They fear that conflict is going to arise because that’s what they’ve experienced so often. But talking with our parents and our kids about money can be difficult for a lot of different reasons. Number one, it can evoke unpleasant memories from childhood.

    Bob:

    Iur own parents may not have had a healthy relationship with money. So, they may have had too much or actually too little growing up.

    Mary Jo:

    It wasn’t talked about growing up. A lot of times it was just hush, hush. They never dealt with money openly.

    Bob:

    I think the older generation is like that, especially those that grew up in the thirties and forties. You don’t discuss finances. Some parents want to shelter their kids from all the money concerns too, and that’s not such a wise choice.

    Mary Jo:

    Well, and then some of them in affluent households, they don’t have as many money concerns. So, it’s not a constant source of struggle within the family. There’s that to consider as well. But a lot of times parents only discuss finances behind closed doors.

    Bob:

    And there can be cultural issues when it comes to talking about money also, would you not agree?

    Mary Jo:

    Oh, absolutely. And there are certain cultures that it’s just very taboo. We’re not talking about making this a public conversation. This is really just among your immediate family. And so we’ve kind of been trained and brought up to avoid talking about money and politics, but that’s really not what we’re talking about.

    Bob:

    I think there’s some really good points that you have in here. Like you might not want to give up control or you may feel out of control.

    Mary Jo:

    Exactly. I think one of the big ones that parents are concerned about and elderly parents, for example, they’re afraid that their kids will judge them. They also may no longer be able to handle money, and they also are afraid they’re going to get taken advantage of. There’s so much that we hear about about seniors that are victims to fraud and predator practices, if you will. So it’s a big concern for families. Also, the healthcare costs can be a lifetime of savings without a plan in place. So, are they prepared? That’s certainly something that you want to talk to them about.

    Bob:

    Mary Jo, really the family dynamics, they play all into this and there’s those sibling rivalries that happen sometimes. I think you have something that you want to share here that your mom gave you.

    Mary Jo:

    I just remember as we got older and spouses came into the mix, one year at Christmas, she gave us each a book on sibling rivalry. Unfortunately, it didn’t help, but it was a good thought.

    Bob:

    Another thing is many times you may rely on the oldest child and that may be a good idea, or it may not be. It depends on if that oldest child is really good with finance. And many times they are because of, have you ever heard of the birth order before?

    Mary Jo:

    Oh, sure. And there’s certain personality traits depending on what order you fall into.

    Bob:

    Because all those children are different. I know with my three, they’re very different. One can be very conservative. One can be very liberal, and then one can be right in the middle. And again, a lot of times it has to do with birth order. You have got to be careful because they can use money to control or manipulate one parent over the other. A child that maybe has grown up very wealthy in a wealthy family can definitely have a sense of entitlement to the parents’ money. I’ve seen this helping people over the years, especially if they were raised in wealth, and jealousy can come between those brothers and sisters in the later years.

    Mary Jo:

    I think you’re absolutely right. And there was one thing as you were talking that kind of popped into my mind. It amazes me in my family, and there were four of us all within about five years of each other. So, we were very close together in age. And what was interesting, even though we may only be a year apart, our vision or our version and interpretation of a situation that we approached as a family is very different depending on how old we were at the time it happened. And so, that really changes your perception. And it’s kind of amazing to me. We were all raised in the same house, but we all had different feelings regarding certain situations.

    Bob:

    Mary Jo, when we get back to the birth order and talking about that, and I’ve studied some of that too. It’s interesting. Let’s say a family has five children. You will have a characteristic, maybe of the fourth or fifth child, take on the same characteristic as the oldest child, especially if they’re some years apart.

    Mary Jo:

    Oh, that makes sense.

    Bob:

    Does that make sense?

    Mary Jo:

    Yes, it does. There’s a long list of the family dynamic and how complicated it can go on and on. And Bob, putting off these conversations, it’s a decision in and of itself. It suggests we lack conviction about what we believe. There’s another scripture that I think speaks to this, “Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, it’s dead.” And that’s from James 2:17.

    Bob:

    It kind of reminds me of the program that we made on procrastination.

    Mary Jo:

    And they can find that if they go back and look in the archives.

    Bob:

    Sure can. And by the way, you can do that just by going to christianfinancialpodcast.com. You can go look for that and listen to that one on your smartphone or on your computer, wherever you’d like. So let’s discuss some action steps, Mary Jo, that we can share with those listening and how to open up that conversation. I liked what you say to start out by first talking with your aging parents about money, if they’re still around.

    Mary Jo:

    It’s important to create that open and honest conversation with your parents about their financial situation, their desires, their concern, and especially about their fears as they age regarding their money before it’s too late, before an illness or dementia makes this impossible.

    Bob:

    So you’re just saying to start that open dialogue? I mean, that sounds pretty scary for a lot of folks, including me. Okay.

    Mary Jo:

    Well, yes. And so we’re going to look at some ideas to hopefully give them some help and some ideas to facilitate that conversation.

    Bob:

    Talking to your aging parents about finances can definitely be a source of anguish. It could create lots of uncertainty. Your family will definitely be in a stronger position if you do talk about it in advance rather than after the fact. And you know what we mean by after the fact.

    Mary Jo:

    That’s exactly right, Bob, and one of the things that, from a cost perspective, when you fail to plan, costs tend to increase and options become limited. That’s especially true with aging parents because dementia is so real, and it’s such a high probability. So you want to have all this in place and have these understandings before that happens.

    Bob:

    It’s a good idea, I would say before it happens, to even get with some legal counsel. This is where estate planning comes into play because estate planning is not just about setting up the will for after you’re gone, but it’s also about the power of attorneys, the medical power of attorneys. You can set up a trust, so if you’re incapacitated, you can put a corporate trustee in play there. So there’s a lot of things you can do, and you can talk to that about your children, so that pressure won’t be on them if one doesn’t want to act as the trustee. So there’s a lot of different ideas behind this. There are just too many to name, but we’re here to help you through these minefields. Two ways to accomplish this is help your parents by saying, you’ve done a good job. Don’t go in putting them down and then share the news about your own planning process if you’ve done it yourself.

    Mary Jo:

    I think that’s great advice, Bob. So you can start by letting them know how much you appreciate what they’ve done for you over the years and how they’ve helped you. Compliment them if they’ve done a good job where it’s appropriate, and especially if they’ve done a great job of saving over the years. That’s a great place to compliment them and get the conversation going. But if they struggled financially asked, do you have any concerns about your financial future?

    Bob:

    Another approach, Mary Jo, is to let them know that you have recently met with a financial planner of your own. And this process can remind you that you really don’t know much about their wishes and you can ask if they would feel comfortable sharing more about their financial goals, their end of life wishes, and their estate plans.

    Mary Jo:

    People are living longer than ever, and the risk of age related diseases is increasing at an alarming rate. So who do they want to help them with this if they become frail and incapacitated, or worse yet begin to suffer the effects of cognitive decline. Have they thought about that and what are their wishes in that regard?

    Bob:

    So as we get a little bit deeper into this and some more questions, another great question to ask is if they could design an end of life plan, what would it look like? And this should help get that ball rolling.

    Mary Jo:

    Absolutely. And in the Bible, God’s word commands us to honor our parents. In 1 Timothy 5:4, “But if she has children or grandchildren, their first responsibility is to show godliness at home and repay their parents by taking care of them. This is something that pleases God.” So part of honoring our parents is to support them in their old age.

    Bob:

    Just as it’s important to talk to your aging parents about their financial situation, it’s also just as equally important to include in your own children in discussions about family finances. So, if we’re in the middle, we can share with both.

    Mary Jo:

    Oh, absolutely.

    Bob:

    And another challenging discussion…

    Mary Jo:

    Talking to your kids about money is another challenging discussion. Bob, speaking about talking with our kids about money, during the 1990s, it just seemed like money grew on trees. We had a robust market, it was very much a bull market. Investment portfolios grew significantly. A lot of people used their home equity as a line of credit. This came to a screeching halt, however, after the market crashed in 2008. It seems now though that after years of a bull market more recently, we’re seeing some of these same signs that this cycle could repeat itself. The things that concerns me about this is the negative impact it has on young people who don’t have the business of wisdom gained in previous economic or market cycles. They haven’t lived through the downturn. So they’re not used to doing without, and students are getting credit card offers at young ages before they even have a job or a source of repayment. Students are using loans and credit cards to pay for the rising cost of a college education. So, this is already creating a hardship.

    Bob:

    Yeah. I’ll tell you what that credit might look like a great option to assist with college costs, but without a strong discipline that can create a financial crisis in the making. I’m just thinking about this. For young adults, the added burden of mounting student loan debt in an uncertain job market could be a nonstarter, and it could take many years to pay it off. I’ve seen this many times when I’m talking with those that are just getting out of college and trying to start something. They want to start something, but they have so much debt looming over them. Talking with your kids about managing credit and helping them to understand, don’t just go out there and take all those credit card offers. It’s really better to go cash if you can, and give them the opportunity to do so while they’re under your guidance is a great life lesson, because I’ll tell you, we don’t learn this in school.

    Mary Jo:

    No, they sure don’t. Financial illiteracy is rampant. Parents think their kids are getting the basics of personal finance in school, but this is just no longer the case. We learned about budget by balancing a checkbook, but kids today, they don’t even know what a checkbook is. In fact, according to a study from Visa USA from 2003, nearly half of young people think they are more likely to become millionaires by starring in a reality TV series than by working and learning how to budget and save wisely.

    Bob:

    Let’s make a deal.

    Mary Jo:

    Advertisers and credit card companies are targeting young people because they have spending influence. I’m not even sure I know what that is, but social media is making this all just worse.

    Bob:

    Oh, you know what it us. Come on. When you’re on the internet, and you’re going from site to site, it’s all targeting you because it knows what the last thing that you looked at is. We go look up a vacation to Florida, and the next 10 times on the internet, it’s going to be advertising vacations to Florida. Really, it’s never too early to have that family discussion about budgeting. Bottom line, it’s very necessary to have that. And we’re not saying that you can’t go buy some of the nicer things in life, but you really need to teach and be modeling that yourself and allow children that opportunity to even plan a budget. Maybe next time that you go to the grocery store, have your children plan it out. Say we’ve got $350 to spend here. Of course they may buy all candy and fruit loops, but if they’re 10, 11, or 12 years old, talk to them about that and help them to understand when we go to the grocery store, this is all we’ve got. Now, Mary Jo that’s today, where it’s so different. You’ve got the debit card, you’ve got the credit card, where it used to be this is the amount of cash you had and if you spent it all, it’s gone. So teach them that mom and dad have to work hard to keep everything in budget and have to work hard to provide. And that debt takes funds from other opportunities such as giving and saving and even those great family vacations that can create memories for a lifetime.

    Mary Jo:

    That’s so true, Bob, and I love the way you said we only have $350 to spend. So let’s break that down a little bit more. So we’ve got a week and $350. And so how many meals is that? So how much can we spend on each meal? And if dinner is going to cost the family $10, and that means we have seven for lunch and maybe five for breakfast.

    Bob:

    Okay. I’ll get my calculator out here. Just a second. We’ll say $350 divided by 21. Okay. And what is that about $16 a meal, right?

    Mary Jo:

    How big is that family? That’s more like a family of five, but it’s a great practice noNo matter what the family budget is. So it’s a way to just get the kids involved. And kids from families that never discussed money or established spending limits are often the first to get in financial trouble as young adults. They just assume that mom and dad will bail them out. I encourage you to give some thought to raising savvy, financial citizens. They’ll just be better people.

    Bob:

    Exactly. And we want to make sure that we talk to our kids about giving, because giving releases the bondage that greed has over us. So don’t just talk to them about money and budgeting and spending, but show them the joy of giving, get them involved in giving to missionaries or to the church, and think about how will you involve them in giving as well as the satisfaction of it. You’re their financial leader as the parent, so show your children how to be good and faithful stewards.

    Mary Jo:

    Growing up, you saw those banks that had spend, save, give. I always thought that that was a great way when kids started getting an allowance to teach them that, about giving, and how those three work together. Every family has a money history. So, we just want to encourage you to start the conversation, and talk money in a way that matters with the ones that matter most. Another scripture that we’ll leave you with, “Train up a child in the way he should go. And when he is old, he will not depart from it.” And that’s from Proverbs 22:6.

    Bob:

    We encourage you to listen in next week as we explore talking to your spouse about money and ways to have that money talk.

    [DISCLOSURES]

    Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

    23 min
  • 24 – Retirement Plan Rollover Choices
    The one constant in this world is change. Change happens whether we are ready for it or not. You just left your current job and have moved on to a new company or maybe you are retiring. Are you wondering what to do with your old 401(k) or other type of company retirement plan?
    26 min
  • 24 – Retirement Plan Rollover Choices
    Click below to listen to Episode 24 – Retirement Plan Rollover Choices
    Retirement Plan Rollover Choices

    Learn more about different retirement plan rollover options.

    More episodes >>

    The one constant in this world is change. Change happens whether we are ready for it or not.

    You just left your current job and have moved on to a new company or maybe you are retiring. Are you wondering what to do with your old 401(k) or other type of company retirement plan?

    There are pros and cons with all of your options, and in this episode Bob and Mary Jo will walk you through those choices.

    Before deciding whether to retain assets in a 401(k) or roll over to an IRA, an investor should consider various factors including, but not limited to, investment options, fees and expenses, services, withdrawal penalties, protection from creditors and legal judgments, required minimum distributions and possession of employer stock.  Please view the Investor Alerts section of FINRA website for additional information.

    HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®

    Mentioned In This Episode
    Christian Financial Advisors
    Website
    Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
    Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

    Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

    SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
    EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

    [INTRODUCTION]

    Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

    Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

    Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

    Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

    [EPISODE]

    Bob’s Opening Disclosure:

    So welcome to today’s program where we’re going to be talking about 401k and 403b IRA rollovers. But before we get to the program, it’s very important that we disclose the following. This is going to go fast. It’s going to take about a minute, but hang on. The information provided in this presentation is not intended to provide specific advice and should not be construed as a recommendation for any individual. To determine which investment may be appropriate for you, consult with your financial, tax, or legal professional. A rollover from an existing employer’s 401k can involve a complex web of tax rules and regulations. Employee sponsored plan assets have unlimited protection from creditors under federal law, while IRA assets are protected in bankruptcy proceedings only. Laws vary by state. In most cases, cashing out of the account or taking lump sum distributions in lieu of rollover options may carry significant penalties, especially for individuals under the age of 59.5. Please consult a tax professional or attorney prior to making any financial decisions.

    Bob:

    Let’s get to talking about IRA rollovers. Proverbs 15:21-22, “Folly brings joy to one who has no sense, but whoever has understanding keeps a straight course. Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisors, they succeed.”

    Mary Jo:

    Ecclesiastes 4:9-10, “Two are better than one because they have a good return for their labor. If either of them falls down, one can help the other up, but pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them up.”

    Bob:

    Mary Jo, today’s going to be a wonderful program as we talk about the one constant in this world, which is change. Change is constantly happening. We’re not talking about the kind of change from your money. We’re talking about change in life. Change happens, whether we’re ready for it or not. Things like you just left your current job and have moved on to a new company and maybe you’re thinking about retiring or you are retiring. So today, we’re going to help you. Are you wondering what to do with that old 401k or other type of company retirement plan you might have?

    Mary Jo:

    When you leave your employer, you have typically four alternatives for your old 401k or 403b account or whatever the company retirement plans are. You can number one, cash it out. Number two, keep it where it is, the old employer. Number three, roll it over into your new employer’s plan if they allow it, and number four, roll it into an IRA, or individual retirement account.

    Bob:

    Mary Jo, there are really some pros and cons of these options that we need to let people know about. First, that one that you said about cashing it out, that can be very dangerous.

    Mary Jo:

    You are absolutely right. Bob. The rules allow you to cash out an employer sponsored plan, which means you can cash out all or some of it. However, we encourage you to think very carefully before doing this because it can come at a very high price. This money is designated for your retirement and liquidating the account today, short changes your financial future. And if you are under the age of 59.5, you will pay a 10% early withdrawal penalty. You will also owe taxes on the entire amount. It’s added to your taxable income the year it’s received. The rule states that you have 60 days to roll it back to another plan or an IRA. Now, some people might be tempted to use the money or borrow it with the intention to pay it back before the 60 day window is up, and this often falls into that category of best intentions and they miss the 60 day deadline. At that point, it’s considered earned income. As I said a minute ago, the amount that is not rolled over becomes taxable income. And again, if you’re under the age of 59.5, it will come with a 10% early withdrawal penalty. So think very carefully before doing this.

    Bob:

    It’s kind of like adding insult to injury, isn’t it, especially if you’re a higher income earner. So the other option is to just keep it where it is. And this really boils down to convenience, possibly lower fees, maybe some good investment options, and expertise. Leaving it there might be the easiest option, but, and I say but, you may want to cut ties with that employer. And do you know the financial future of your company that you were with?

    Mary Jo:

    What if the plan does not have low fees and good investment options? That’s one of the things you want to look at. Does the plan have access to good performing funds in all the various asset classes? And if you don’t understand what it means by asset classes, stay tuned and we’re going to be talking about that in an upcoming episode. The other thing that happens is inertia sets in. You forget it’s there. If you’re young, you’re probably going to have multiple employers over the course of your career and you could easily just forget about that money.

    Bob:

    Here’s an option that I like, and of course we like, is rolling it over to an IRA. There’s several reasons why this could be the best option. Number one, let’s say, you have several 401ks spread out from prior employers in different places. So you just consolidate and by consolidating the different 401ks into one investment account, it’s going to make it much easier for you to see how truly diversified you are. Does that make sense, Mary Jo, when I say that?

    Mary Jo:

    Sure it does.

    Bob:

    Because you may think you’re diversified by having multiple 401ks, multiple accounts, but that’s not true. Many times, you own the exact same thing.

    Mary Jo:

    There’s a lot of overlap, typically, in that situation.

    Bob:

    Now you’re with one firm, you get one statement, you have one account number, one login. It’s so much easier to keep up with it. If you’re actually seeking a more diversified portfolio with a professionally, fee-based, fiduciary type advisor like we are, the whole world is open to all the different investment choices where, like you said earlier, Mary Jo in a 401k, there may just be 20 choices or 25 choices.

    Mary Jo:

    Whoever is administrating the 401k, not the plan provider, those are typically one single company and it’ll have their name. So, you’ll only have access to their funds and not the whole universe of available investments. So your choices are typically limited.

    Bob:

    Also, individual stocks are something I wanted to point out. Many times, in these 401ks, you don’t have the choice of individual stocks.

    Mary Jo:

    Most often not, unless they have a brokerage arm, and some companies do some companies don’t that allow you to go into a brokerage account in your retirement account. So, the other thing to consider is coordinating required minimum distributions. For those that don’t know what that is, at the age of 70.5, the year after, you have to begin taking money out of your IRA whether you need it or not. Uncle Sam wants their’s.

    Bob:

    Mary Jo, I want to say here, this is the good reason why you want one financial advisor if you have multiple IRAs. Because one financial advisor is going to look at all of them, and you don’t necessarily have to take from all of them. You could take from one, but it’s based on the total amount that you have.

    Mary Jo:

    Exactly. The other thing is Roth conversion options. And we’re going to talk a little bit more about that as well. If you’re between jobs and in a lower tax bracket, it might be a good time to do a conversion because your income is lower.

    Bob:

    Yeah. We’re going to talk a little more about that later at the end of the program today.

    Mary Jo:

    Yes. And creating an income stream. When the time comes to retire, how are you going to generate income from accounts at multiple places? That becomes rather challenging. And what if you want to have access to additional investment strategies and investment advice, including biblically responsible investment options like we have at Christian Financial Advisors. You’re not going to have access to that in your 401k.

    Bob:

    Some other nice things that you’ll in individual IRAs, you have flexible beneficiary designations. We also handle inherited IRAs, multiple beneficiaries, contingent beneficiaries. We go over all that with you. You’re not going to have an advisor in that old 401k to do that. And we understand all the withholding rules, and employer plans require a mandatory 20% withholding as well as a possible penalty for distributions, whereas an IRA would only be a 10% penalty. We’re talking about before age 59.5, and money from an IRA may be drawn without penalties at all for things like qualified education costs, first time home purchases, healthcare premiums made while unemployed. Well, 401k doesn’t offer these exemptions. But I do want to point out that a 401k does offer you the ability, many times, to borrow against that 401k.

    Mary Jo:

    That’s true, and an IRA does not. We also have if you want access to additional services by your investment provider. At Christian Financial Advisors, as we mentioned before, we are a registered fee-based investment advisor, and as such have to serve as a fiduciary. So if you want education and guidance, if you want investment advice, you want somebody to actually help you allocate your money, and you maybe want financial planning services. A lot of people have some prevailing overall questions. Do I have enough? How do I create an income stream? What about my social security? So those are financial planning questions, and we can certainly help you with those. If you leave it, you are subject to the plan constraints and the rules and possible blackout periods. And what that is is if you work for a company, I’m going to say GE, and that’s not a recommendation. It’s just the name of a company that popped into my head. If you work for GE and they are making their annual financial disclosures, that may be a blackout period when you can’t buy GE stock. So, that’s what that refers to. The self-directed options – if you’re a do it yourselfer, and you want to manage your own investments, there aren’t options for that in your 401k, but you could go to a brokerage company and you could open up your own IRA and do it yourself.

    Bob:

    Be careful with that, though, because you have no one helping you and guiding you through those, what I call, minefields, especially that the market will give you like it did last year in the last quarter. And if you didn’t have somebody helping you get through that, Mary Jo, I had a do it yourselfer come to me and you know what he did. He sold on the very lowest day in the market. I think it was December 24th. He decided to move out, and we had a huge rebound from that point.

    Mary Jo:

    One of the biggest advantages of working with an advisor is the discipline that it instills, and we can help you help yourself a lot of times just by talking you through those emotional issues that make you react at the worst possible time.

    Bob:

    It seems like at the worst possible time is when your famous buyers like Warren Buffet come in and buy everything.

    Mary Jo:

    That’s true.

    Bob:

    So here’s some of the reasons to possibly leave that old qualified plan, 401k, thrift savings plan, where it is. Some plans allow for earlier penalty-free distribution options, and there may be advantages if you have employer stock and a 401k or a qualified retirement plan, especially when it comes to net unrealized appreciation, which can be very confusing. Over the years, we’ve dealt with some major oil companies that had these stock options plans in them, and I could just tell that folks are really confused when it comes to this.

    Mary Jo:

    Oh, it’s a complex situation, and you really need expert advice.

    Bob:

    So net unrealized appreciation is the difference in value between the average cost of the shares you’ve got and the current market value of the shares held in a tax deferred account. We refer to this, again, as NUA and it’s important if you’re distributing highly appreciated company stock from your tax deferred plan, employee sponsored plan, such as a 401k. And Mary Jo, in the past what we’ve done was we have a CPA that really understands how this works, and we bring a CPA in to help with it.

    Mary Jo:

    Great idea.

    Bob:

    Contributions, you or your employees may not be fully invested. So that’s something you’ve got to look at, but leaving it where it is, sometimes you have access to lifetime income options if you leave it and that old 401k, like annuity payments. And if you’re over 70.5 and still working, you may not have to take those required minimum distributions from the 401k or your current employer like you would in an IRA. So this may allow for consolidation into some other plans, but not all employer plans allow for this.

    Mary Jo:

    That’s true, Bob, and a lot of our listeners are working longer. You’re working into your later years. There are a lot of 70 year olds that are still working. So if you are, you don’t have to take those RMDs from your current plan. So that’s an important thing to consider. You also have protection from creditors and legal judgment. This could be a consideration for business owners. You have loan provisions available in a new employer plan not available in an IRA, but we also caution there. That is a costly source of money. So, if you’re tempted to take a loan against your employer plan, we would encourage you to look for other options, if available. And if you have Roth funds or after tax funds, these need to remain separate from your pretax funds. So a lot of people will put after tax contributions into their 401k, or they may have a Roth 401k. So, you have to handle those differently. And if you don’t have the needed skills to manage your 401k retirement. What’s your expertise? If you’re a plumber, you’re probably not understanding asset allocation and rightly so. Do you know how to efficiently structure your withdrawals, how to do that tax effectively, and how to handle large market declines? Are you an emotional investor?

    Bob:

    Just last week, Nathaniel in our office was saying, Bob, sometimes I wonder if we should have gotten our major in psychology versus finance, because there’s so much emotion that gets involved in these market declines. Like we’ve had a lot of volatility over the last year and boy, that’s something where people will make those mistakes and just let those emotions grab ahold of them. So here are some types of investment options to consider for rolling over a qualified plan. These options are not exclusive to qualified rollover funds, but can be used for other fund types as well. Choose an independent financial advisor, preferably a Christian one like us here at Christian Financial Advisors. We can help you. The account options are like a brokerage account where you can buy stocks, bonds, or mutual funds and have many choices to invest in. You could go with a direct mutual fund family. Another option that’s been very popular for, I guess, the last 10 years, especially because people get a lot of invitations to free steak dinners at the best steakhouse in town, fixed and variable annuity. By the way, you might want to go back and listen to a program that we made on the good, the bad, and the ugly of annuities, but they do have some good guaranteed income options for life. But gosh, you really need to look at all the fine print and understand you can only take out a certain amount per year.

    Mary Jo:

    And the cost.

    Bob:

    Yeah. And the cost associated with that. Usually, the amount you can take out is just 4% or 5% a year, maybe 6%. You’ll see this figure that looks like, Hey, that’s my guarantee, but go ask them for the cash, and that’s not the case. You have to take it out in slow increments, but it does have that guaranteed income option. And the access to managed account options that an independent advisor can give you with institutional quality fund managers is a real plus.

    Mary Jo:

    Things to be aware of when choosing a financial advisor. You’ll actually find an entire show devoted to this. But for the purpose of today’s episode, we want you to think about, are they a fiduciary? In other words, is their advice all in your best interest, you being the client. And are they independent or are they captive? So whose name is on the door? If it’s not their name, then the advisor might be encouraged to utilize proprietary investment options. The fees may be lower, but I can guarantee you they’re making money somewhere, and it’s probably in those investment options. And are they commissioned based? Some commission based advisors have been known to steer clients towards commission-based products that may or may not be in the client’s best interest. So those are some things to think about.

    Bob:

    One of the things that you need to look at, if you decide to move your old 401k or qualified plan to an IRA, as most firms now require a roll it or leave it disclosure document and go through that document with the advisor. We do that in our office so that you understand the pros and cons of rolling it over versus not rolling it over.

    Mary Jo:

    And that is so important. And it’s a big regulatory issue these days. Earlier, we touched on the idea of Roth conversions, and I think we may want to explore this in a little bit more detail before we close today’s show. I’ve always thought it was a good idea to have funds in all different types of accounts. I typically call that diversifying across the tax code. And what I mean by this is it’s good to have funds in after tax accounts, funds in an IRA for tax deferred accounts, and funds in a Roth IRA. When you invest in a Roth IRA, the contributions are not deductible at the time, but the growth on those funds is never taxed as long as you leave it in the account for at least five years. So, you have funds in various types of accounts to use at different times. Let’s talk about that in a little bit more detail.

    Bob:

    I just want to butt in here. I like it that you say diversifying across the tax code. That’s a really big thing, I think.

    Mary Jo:

    Yes. So let’s just say the years right after you retire, let’s say you retire at 65, you don’t have to take money out of your IRA until 70.5. So what money are you going to live on in those 6, or approximately 6, years? You want that to be very tax efficient money. So ,that’s a great time to withdraw from after tax accounts. And then if you want to leave money to the next generation, doing so in a Roth IRA. Money that you may not ever need, a good place to leave that is in a Roth IRA. And it’s there if you need it, but if you want to pass it to your heirs, it’s a great tax efficient way for them to receive it. Does that make sense, Bob?

    Bob:

    It does. It does. And there’s so many tax advantages of a Roth IRA when it comes to creating that retirement income stream, because there’s no RMD requirements at 70.5, like in a traditional IRA qualified plan. And I tell you, every year, all of our clientele, that’s above 70.5, they get worried about their RMD. And like you said earlier, it’s a very good tax advantaged way to leave an inheritance for the next generation. If you think you have more than you’re going to need to live on, legacy planning for your children or grandchildren is great using a Roth IRA, because you never know with your children, what kind of tax bracket your kids or grandkids could be in when you’re leaving an IRA to them. So in a Roth, you don’t have to worry about that, where the distributions are not taxable. And that’s really a big benefit when it comes to withdrawing.

    Mary Jo:

    Yeah, that’s so true. So another point of consideration regarding Roth IRAs is that many of our listeners will never be able to qualify to fund one directly because they make too much money. And there are income limits to qualify for opening a Roth IRA. However, these income limits don’t apply to conversions. So how a conversion works, you can convert some, part, of a traditional IRA or the entire thing to a Roth IRA. And whatever that amount is, it becomes taxable income the year you do it. So if you’re between jobs and don’t have earned income for a period of time, your income for that year may be lower than it’s going to be in the foreseeable future. So that may be an ideal time to convert some money to a Roth, but you have to have money available to pay the taxes on that. If you don’t have money outside of the account to pay the taxes, we don’t encourage that.

    Bob:

    And this is where I emphasize that you have a good tax advisor, CPA preferably, that will help you to understand. Does it makes sense to do this Roth conversion, converting your traditional IRA to a Roth. You can do it all at once, but we feel it’s better if you don’t. Especially if you have $500,000 in that traditional IRA. Do it in pieces so that you won’t get hit and pushed into such a high tax bracket. Mary Jo, there’s so much to consider here. I cannot imagine somebody listening to all of this thinking, “Oh my goodness, this is making my head explode because there’s so many different options.” So we understand this and we understand you have many questions, but you know what? We got the answers here at Christian Financial Advisors, and we’re here to help you. So if you’d like to talk about your unique situation and learn more about how a Roth IRA may be a good fit, or if the rollover strategy is something that’s right for you, we’re going to go over all of the pluses and the minuses of each strategy, your investment choices, and what’s the right thing to do. Mary Jo, any other comments before we end today?

    Mary Jo:

    Bob, I think you just said it there. We’re going to give you both sides to it and not just what’s going to affect us, but we’re going to talk to you about what’s in your best interest. That’s what we do as fiduciaries.

    Bob:

    Well, I guess that’s going to do it all for today, until next time.

    [DISCLOSURES]

    Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor. Consider all available options, which include remaining with your current retirement plan, rolling over into a new employer’s plan, IRA, or cashing out the account value. When deciding between an employer sponsored plan and IRA, there may be important differences to consider such as a range of investment options, fees and expenses, availability of services, and distribution rules, including differences in applicable taxes and penalties. Depending on your plan’s investment options, in some cases, the investment management fees associated with your plan’s investment options may be lower than similar investment options offered outside the plan, but annuities are longterm investment vehicles designed for retirement purposes. The guarantees of an annuity contract, including fixed returns, payouts, and death benefit guarantees are contingent on the plan’s paying ability of the issuing company. Distributions may be subject to regular income tax and a 10% penalty if taken prior to age 59.5. The riders are only available to the purchase of a variable annuity contract, and it must be utilized within the specific confines of the individual contract and may be voided if these guidelines are not followed. The clients should see the prospectus for complete details. Diversification does not necessarily eliminate the risk of market loss.

    26 min
  • 23 – 19 Financial Wellness Tips for 2019
    January isn’t the only time to make positive changes! We all know how hard making changes and incorporating new habits can be, especially when it comes to finances. However, there’s no time like the present. When you develop a stewardship mentality, you are poised to go on an unforgettable adventure with God.
    22 min
  • 23 – 19 Financial Wellness Tips for 2019
    Click below to listen to Episode 23 – 19 Financial Wellness Tips for 2019
    19 Financial Wellness Tips for 2019

    Check out these 19 financial wellness tips for the year 2019!

    More episodes >>

    January isn’t the only time to make positive changes! We all know how hard making changes and incorporating new habits can be, especially when it comes to finances. However, there’s no time like the present. When you develop a stewardship mentality, you are poised to go on an unforgettable adventure with God.

    In this episode of Christian Financial Perspectives, Bob and Mary Jo have put together 19 financial wellness tips for you in the year 2019.This includes the breakdown of topics like:

    • Don’t spend more than you make
    • Improve your credit score
    • Plan for large purchases

      •  

      They also discuss Ron Blue’s Live, Give, Owe, Grow strategy and how it applies to so many aspects of our financial lives. It’s time to get your financial house in order!

      HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®

      19 TIPS FOR 2019 BREAKDOWN

      1)  Start and Maintain an Emergency Fund

      2)  Stay Disciplined

      3)  Don’t Spend More Than You Make

      4)  Dollar Cost Average Into the Markets Regardless of What They are Doing

      5)  Save, Save, Save

      6)  Small Savings Add Up – Don’t Underestimate the Small Changes

      7)  Do an Insurance Review

      8)  Take Advantage of Technology

      9)  Improve Your Credit Score

      10) Plan for Large Purchases

      11)  Pay Premiums Annually Rather Than Monthly

      12)  Minimize Splurges

      13)  Create a Budget Plan and Track Expenses

      14)  Compare Your Credit Card Offers

      15)  Stack Discount Offers for Big Savings

      16)  Protect Your Financial Information

      17)  Monitor Subscription Services

      18)  Take Advantage of the Library

      19)  Host a Family Financial Forum

      Mentioned In This Episode
      Christian Financial Advisors
      Website
      Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
      Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

      Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

      SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
      EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

      [INTRODUCTION]

      Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

      Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

      Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

      Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

      [EPISODE]

      Bob:

      Today, we’re going to be talking about 19 tips to help you on your path to financial wellness in 2019, and Mary Jo and I thought 19 for 19. We thought that’d be a good idea, didn’t we Mary Jo?

      Mary Jo:

      Yep. It works for me, Bob.

      Bob:

      So we’re going to get our house in financial order today, and when you develop a stewardship mentality, you’re poised to go on an unforgettable adventure with God.

      Mary Jo:

      We want to thank our friends at Kingdom Advisors and the Ron Blue Institute for a concept of live, give, owe, and grow. And in live, that’s to practice provision, contentment, and enjoyment because money is a tool. From 1 Timothy 5:8, “But those who can’t care for their relatives, especially those in their own household, have denied the true faith. Such people are worse than unbelievers.”

      Bob:

      That’s an interesting scripture that he puts behind that in that live part. That’s really saying that we are to provide for our family. When I hear that scripture, it always hits me that it would say that it’s worse than an unbeliever if you’re not taking care of your family.

      Mary Jo:

      Well, absolutely. And when you think about that, that all goes into living expenses. So that’s your food, your fuel, your housing costs, all those things that go into providing directly for your family and your loved ones.

      Bob:

      And this is really talking about the breadwinner that you should take care of your family. Don’t just sit around and wait for others. You’ve got to get out there and you’ve got to work. I mean, that’s truly what this is saying. The next one of live, give, owe, grow is give. And that’s where you open your hand to release God’s resources. We’d like to use a good scripture to go with this one. It’s from Matthew 6:19-21, “Don’t store up treasures here on earth, where moths eat them and rust destroys them and where thieves break in and steal. Store your treasures in heaven, where moths and rust cannot destroy and thieves do not break in and steal. Wherever your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will be also.”

      Mary Jo:

      Where your heart is, so goes your money. And you’ve heard that said before. I know we’ve shared that before on the program as well. I love that scripture. I think it speaks very clearly to giving and God loves a cheerful giver.

      Bob:

      Yes he does. And it’s more blessed to give than receive. And I tell you, there’s just so much blessing. People don’t realize it, but you’ll actually be blessed more by giving.

      Mary Jo:

      I have found that to be true. You approach everything with a generous heart and you’ll be really surprised what comes back to. Next one is owe, and we owe both debt, if we have debt, and taxes. So we are encouraged to eliminate debt. Debt always presumes upon the future. And in the Bible, it speaks to debt in Proverbs 22:7, “Just as the rich rule the poor, so the borrower is servant to the lender,” and it speaks to taxes in Matthew 22:21, “Then he said, give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and give to God what belongs to God.”

      Bob:

      And we want to remember when we pay taxes, that’s just a provision of what God has given us. So let’s not complain about it.

      Mary Jo:

      That’s right.

      Bob:

      It’s kind of hard though.

      Mary Jo:

      We’re only paying on taxes on what we’ve been blessed to receive.

      Bob:

      You got it. So we got live, give, owe, and then we have grow. Growing is demonstrating financial maturity by giving up today’s desires for tomorrow’s benefits. I love the scripture we’ve used many times, Matthew 6:6-8, “Take a lesson from the ants, you lazy bones. Learn their ways and become wise. They labor all summer gathering food for the winter.”

      Mary Jo:

      Another good one. And I know, Bob, you like the version that says the word sluggards in there as opposed to the lazy bones.

      Bob:

      Yeah. Yes I do. You’ve heard me say that one, many, many times.

      Mary Jo:

      Well, you are listening to Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons with Christian Financial Perspectives. If you like what you’re hearing and you’d like to learn more, give us a call during business hours at Christian Financial Advisors at (830) 609-6986.

      Bob:

      We’ve gotten through the first part live, give, owe, grow. So let’s get into these 19 tips.

      Mary Jo:

      Okay. I think the first one and the most important is start and maintain an emergency fund. Without an emergency fund, you’re going to have to go back to the use of credit or other things that are going to cost you a whole lot more in the long run. So, I really encourage starting and maintaining an emergency fund. And that should be a minimum of three to six months of expenses. You can go with less. Some people say, well, I have availability of credit cards. I have balances, rebalances on there, that I could use in case of an emergency. That’s true, but that also comes with interest. I also think that you should increase this as you age. Age discrimination is real. And the older we get, the more money we make and we’re finding ourselves out of a job, the harder it is to replace that paycheck and the longer it takes to find a job that’s going to replace that. So, you should increase that as you get older because you may be out of the workforce longer in case of an emergency.

      Bob:

      The second of our 19 tips is stay disciplined. Pay yourself first. You need to schedule your giving, schedule your savings, and your payments. Schedule that out so that it automatically comes out of your bank account. I’ve learned personally that I will not miss that tithe if I schedule it and set it up as a recurring payment. I’ve done that with my church. Most churches are starting to do that today, where you can set that up with your giving and you set up your savings. You can set that up with your 401k and even talk to your bank about setting up where a certain amount goes to savings each time on an automatic, systematic day of the month. And then we’ve got increase your retirement plan contributions by $25 to a $100 a month, or at the beginning of every quarter. If you just increase by $25 a quarter what you’re putting into, say, your 401k, over a year, you’ve increased that by a hundred a month. You think about it, over three years, you’ve increased that up to $300 a month

      Mary Jo:

      Times three years, that’s a pretty big savings increase. So, you won’t even feel it. The next one comes to don’t spend more than you make live within your means. I think that stands alone and speaks to itself. Otherwise, we are living on debt, which presumes on the future.

      Bob:

      That was the aha moment there, right, Mary Jo? Somebody heard that for the first time. Hmm. Don’t spend more than I make.

      Mary Jo:

      Well, I hope it wasn’t an aha moment for anyone for the first time, but it’s a good reminder.

      Bob:

      I think it is. That’s what people find when they get in high debt very quickly.

      Mary Jo:

      And Bob, your comment before on tip number two, this speaks very clearly to the next one. Why don’t you kind of tie those two together for us?

      Bob:

      So we were talking about staying disciplined. Number four is dollar cost average into the markets, regardless of what they are doing. So, in the last few months we’ve had a down market, but you just keep putting money in systematically in that downmarket if you’re still saving for your retirement. We call that dollar cost averaging, let’s say something is $100 a share, and you’re putting $100 in, you’re getting 10 shares. If it were to go to half of that and you still put a hundred dollars in, you’d get 20 shares. And then if it rebounded even close to back to the $100, you’ve made money. The numbers work, and it just makes so much sense because you’re buying more when the market’s down and you’re buying less when the market’s up, but Mary Jo, we’ve had some conversations just recently. It seems like everybody wants to buy everything on sale, except when it comes to stocks and mutual funds.

      Mary Jo:

      Well, if we could time it, we all would time it and we’d be retired on a beach. And I don’t know, what’s best beach you know of?

      Bob:

      The best beach I can think of is in Maui.

      Mary Jo:

      There you go. We wouldn’t be here on this dreary day, but I think that’s true and we can’t time. It that’s been proven time and time again. So buying over the course of time averages out there.

      Bob:

      So Mary Jo, what’s going to be our fifth tip?

      Mary Jo:

      Well, it’s one that’s near and dear to my passions. Save, save, save. So you cannot invest your way to retirement security, you have to save your way to retirement security. So a couple of different ways to think about savings. You want to fund your IRA, fund your 401k, but fund your IRA for any of the stay at home spouses. I think that we’ve talked about before, but it’s just a good reminder. Also, you want to max out your retirement plan contribution. So, if you’re not fully funding your available contribution, start to increase that. You can do that in increments over time, but you need to max that out as soon as possible. You also want to make sure you’re taking advantage of any employee matching. If you’re not contributing up to the employee match, you should start that immediately because that’s free money that you’re giving away. Also, in front of your employer benefit plans. If they offer an HSA, health savings account, or an FSA, a flexible spending account, you want to make sure you’re funding those. This is another one that we forget about, but you want to save your change. You want to kind of dig under those couch cushions. Here at home, my husband just comes in every day and he takes all his change out of his pocket and he puts it in a coffee can. And you’d be surprised how that adds up.

      Bob:

      Now, Mary Jo, you’re giving away your age there because the younger generation…

      Mary Jo:

      They don’t have coffee cans anymore.

      Bob:

      No, they don’t use money. They just use their debit card. So, they never have any change.

      Mary Jo:

      That’s true, but I know my husband just hates carrying it around. So, the coffee can is overflowing, and now it’s on the floor of the closet. I keep telling him he needs to go cash it in and go for a windfall.

      Bob:

      Wow. Number six, the small savings add up. Don’t underestimate the small changes. Mary Jo, when I’m going to buy a car, I wait three to five weeks before I ever buy cause the big savings add up there. So really the bottom line is don’t let your emotions get involved in buying decisions. And that’s where those small savings, you really save a lot of money if you can wait and compare those prices.

      Mary Jo:

      Next one is an insurance review, and we definitely think you should do this every couple of years. So you want to review the available carriers, look at multiple different carriers, including a regional broker that handles multiple providers. You want to make sure see if you can get the same coverage for less and make sure you’re not buying on price alone. So you certainly want to take advantage and understand what the coverages are that you’re getting in each of the quotes. Are you also taking advantage of discounts that are available for bundling with one carrier and a safe driving discount, for example. Also, understand what your liability levels are. The liability on your automobile coverage should coordinate with the liability on your general liability insurance.

      Bob:

      Number eight is you want to take advantage of the technologies out there of our 19 tips that we’re talking about today here on Christian Financial Perspectives. When we refer to technology, things like using a mobile app that will integrate all of your different accounts. So if you have a bank account, you have a credit card account, you have some investment accounts, we have a great app here that we give to our clients of Christian Financial Advisors that integrates all that so at one time you can see the balances in all your accounts. It goes in once a day and updates those. It also goes in once a day and updates all of the debits that you’ve done or credit cards that you’ve used. So you can see your spending and you can even set up criteria, like as an example, say, I don’t want to eat out because I don’t want to spend more than $500 a month on eating out. Well, you can set that limit and it keeps an account of that and adds up once you’ve hit that point or it lets you know throughout the month, well, I’ve got $200 left or I have $75 left and it keeps an ongoing balance of that automatically. And that’s taken advantage of the technology. There’s other apps out there, too, that just help you save money like gas buddy. When you’re going to go fill up your car with gas, gas buddy will find where the lowest prices gas are in your area. And right there, that can save sometimes $5 or $6.

      Mary Jo:

      Yes, I’ve used that one many times. The next one is about improving your credit score. So you want to make sure you’re checking your credit score. And typically, any credit card company now puts that available on their website. And you want to monitor the changes and understand what might impact that. Also, understand the credit score rating and how it impacts you. One of the things is even on your car insurance, if you’re going to apply for insurance, they’re going to do a credit check and see how credit worthy you are. And they’re going to quote that based on your credit score. Certainly it’s going to impact you on a mortgage or what you’re paying for other sources of credit. You’d be really surprised how this will impact you and reduce your costs over the course of any kind of financing that you encounter in your life.

      Bob:

      Number 10, plan for large purchases. Avoid financing, unless sometimes it’s 0%, but you definitely want to make sure you pay that off while it’s in that free 0% range. If not, don’t do it because I’ve seen more people than not, They’ll get caught up in charging something. They’ll pay that minimum for six months. And then at the end of six months, they don’t pay it off. And all of a sudden the credit card rate goes to 18%. So you want to be very careful of not paying on time to get that 0% with any large purchases, and plan for them in advance.

      Mary Jo:

      Absolutely. Bob, another tip is to pay premiums annually rather than monthly. That’s those small savings that add up there again.

      Bob:

      Number 12, minimize splurges. Drink coffee from home. What a thought. Like the old fashioned days. You mean you don’t need to go out and pay $3.50 to $5 for a cup of coffee? No, you don’t. And we’ve actually learned, you can make as good a coffee from home as you can get at the local coffee house. Eat at home. Plan ahead for meals. Cook in large quantities, and freeze lunch sized portions. Buy what’s on sale and in season, and make that time to go grocery shopping.

      Mary Jo:

      All right, the next one is to create a budget plan and track your expenses. And do this, I would say, for at least six months. You’ve got to really know what you’re spending and if you don’t take some time to track it, you make assumptions. And those assumptions are certainly just not valid. You’re spending a lot more than you think you are. Understand what you’re really spending. Know what you owe on your liability. Understand what your pay off is on your mortgage and any car loans or other debts that you may own as well. Create a budget plan and track those expenses.

      Bob:

      Number 14, compare your credit card offers. We emphasize that you pay off your credit card every month, but these credit card companies out here, many of them offer cash back, or they offer a rewards card and look for the best one because they’re very, very competitive and avoid paying an annual fee. Now be careful, again, of using credit cards and make sure that you’re budgeting well because there’s been studies that have been done over the years. I remember when I used to teach a class on budgeting that you use more even when you pay off the credit card every single month. So be very, very careful about how and what you put on credit cards.

      Mary Jo:

      That’s a great tip. You do tend to spend more of it. It doesn’t hurt when you’re putting it on plastic. But on the other hand, in this day and age of fraud, I think that using a credit card if you’re extremely disciplined and you’re paying that off monthly, is better than using a debit card, because if they get ahold of your debit card and they can wipe out your bank account, but with a credit card, there’s a layer of protection there and you’re not liable if fraudsters get it. And that happens to us repeatedly. So that is some good use for a credit card in that situation. Okay. So the next tip we have for you, number 15, is review those discount offers and stack them for big savings. Use a cash back credit card as we were just describing. And you can also buy gift cards at discounts of where you plan to shop. So if you know you’re going to go to the Gap, go buy a discount and credit card for the Gap or gift card for the Gap, rather. Also, take advantage of any loyalty programs and use discount offers such as “I bought a”. Now I’ve never done that, but I have friends that have, and they say they can get some really big savings that way.

      Bob:

      All right, we’re getting close to the end. We’re number 16 of our 19 financial tips. Remember, you can always call us and get a copy of these notes that we’re using today. Number 16 is protect your financial information. Don’t overshare. Use only secure browsers. Avoid the use of public WiHi. Oh, that’s such a big one. Freeze your credit. Set up fraud alerts. Check the security of ATM’s, and the list goes on.

      Mary Jo:

      Sure does. Also, I want to remind you to monitor your subscription services. So keep track of what you’ve committed to. I would maybe have a note section in your phone and start recording those. I just got reminded that I have a Google memory and you pay an annual subscription for that. So, there are so many other offers like that. Your Netflix subscription, your streaming services, all of those subscription services add up over time. So, know where all the ongoing fees are.

      Bob:

      I just heard that Netflix is raising their prices, too. So, that’s another example. You’ve really got to watch it because before you know it, those ongoing fees have added up. Number 18, take advantage of the library. Oh, really? There’s still libraries?

      Mary Jo:

      There are. And it’s so convenient for me. It’s right down the street. I have to admit, I have a price limit. I read a lot. I read a lot of eBooks, but I’m not paying over $6 anymore. And some of them now are $12 and $15. So that’s kind of my break even point. Now, I’m going to the library.

      Bob:

      You can actually get them for free there.

      Mary Jo:

      Yes, that’s a good concept.

      Bob:

      And 19, the last one of our 19 tips, Mary Jo, go ahead.

      Mary Jo:

      I think this is a really important one for a strong, Christian family. You want to host a family financial forum. You’ve heard us talk about spousal unity to make sure that you and your spouse are on the same page. And if you’re not on the same page, that you’ve talked about it and you shared your goals and you’re both working towards the same thing. Maybe meet monthly to talk about the family budget, what big expenses are coming up, make sure everybody’s in the know, and get the kids involved. What are they willing to give up for that trip to Disney and explain how the budget helps the entire family. Maybe ask them what they’re willing to help with. They need to have skin in the game. So involve the kids. I really recommend that as well.

      Bob:

      So to end us up and kind of sum it up today, start where you are and make those small changes. There is no one size fits all and your use of money best reflects your relationship with God. That’s all for today.

      [DISCLOSURES]

      Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor. Dollar cost averaging does not assure a profit or protect against loss in declining markets. Such a plan involves continuous investments in securities, regardless of fluctuating price levels of such securities and the investor should consider his for her financial ability to continue purchases through periods of low levels.

      22 min
    • Episode 22 – Top 15 Client Questions
      Here at CIS Wealth Management Group, we get a lot of great questions on a daily basis from clients, and many of these questions are the one and the same. Bob and Mary Jo decided to record a program based on the most common questions that we receive as financial advisors.
      31 min
    • 22 – Top 15 Client Questions
      Click below to listen to Episode 22 – Top 15 Client Questions
      Top 15 Client Questions

      Bob & Mary Jo answer some of the most common client questions that they get asked.

      More episodes >>

      Here at Christian Financial Advisors, we get a lot of great questions on a daily basis from clients, and many of these questions are the one and the same. Bob and Mary Jo decided to record a program based on the most common questions that we receive as financial advisors. This includes questions like:

      • How are you paid?
      • Why do clients leave?
      • And what is a fiduciary?

        • HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®

        Mentioned In This Episode
        Christian Financial Advisors
        Website
        Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
        Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

        Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

        SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
        EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

        [INTRODUCTION]

        Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

        Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

        Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

        Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

        [EPISODE]

        Bob:

        Romans 12:6-8, “We all have different gifts according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith. If it is serving, then serve. If it is teaching, then teach. If it is to encourage, then give encouragement. If it is giving, then give generously. If it is to lead, do it diligently. If it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.” Today, we’re going to talk about many of the top questions we get as financial advisors on a daily basis. I picked this scripture to start off today’s program because Mary Jo and I, we seem to have the gift of teaching. Would you not agree, Mary Jo?

        Mary Jo:

        Well, I’ve heard that more than once, Bob. Yes, I think that’s true.

        Bob:

        I don’t know about your side, Mary Jo, but on my side, my mom was a teacher and her dad, my grandfather, was a superintendent of schools and also a teacher. So, I think that comes naturally. It’s in my genetic makeup.

        Mary Jo:

        Same is true for me, Bob. My dad was a teacher as well. And for many years, it seems like in the financial services industry and even in my other life before that, it seems like every role I get into, I end up morphing it into a training role. And so I’ve spent a lot of time as a classroom trainer and teaching advisors. It’s in my blood. And that’s one of the things that clients like, because I kind of take my time with them to explain things to them in my teaching mode.

        Bob:

        As we mentioned, this scripture is such a beautiful scripture because it talks about how each one of us has different kinds of gifts. I want to challenge those that are listening today. Have you thought about what spiritual gift that is that God has given you?

        Mary Jo:

        Oh, that’s great, Bob. And on that note as we think about the questions that clients ask us. So often the answer is, well, that depends because everyone’s situation is different. Their situation is unique, and the answer could be different for you versus your neighbor. Sometimes, there’s just not always one answer to a lot of these questions. We’re going to go through some of those questions and share our thoughts on their answers. But again, it all depends on their situation.

        Bob:

        Well, Mary Jo, let’s get into some of these questions. The first one is one that was just asked of me yesterday. So what would that one be?

        Mary Jo:

        Do we have enough to last us through retirement? Well, that depends. So one of the things we want to look at is our legacy goals. What are your goals and objectives for your retirement and your resources? What do you want them to do for you? What kind of life do you want to create for yourself? Another big one right now is longevity, risk, the cost of longevity, and how that’s going to impact your resources. Retirement. That used to be 10, 15 years. Now, we’re living much longer. If we’re retiring early and living longer, we have a longer time horizon. We have longer life expectancies.

        Bob:

        The longevity risk. It’s a risk, but it’s not a bad risk.

        Mary Jo:

        No, it does imply life. And that’s a good thing, but it can be expensive. That’s a very good point. You’ve got your fixed expenses, your living expenses, and then discretionary spending. If you plan to travel, if you want to give generously, if you have other things that you want to do with your legacy goals, and then you’ve got family needs. A lot of people want to be generous with their family. Kids with young families, they have financial needs, and parents want to be able to help out. Those are all some of the things that you have to plan for. So with financial planning, we can crunch those numbers, and then we can answer that question for you more specifically. What else would you add, Bob?

        Bob:

        On this, I’m going to go ahead and go to the next question that we get a lot of. This is kind of a totally different idea, but it still goes with that longevity risk and how are we going to spend our money during retirement. And that is, should I pay off my home mortgage or continue to save and invest? I’m going to say, kind of like you, Mary Jo. Well, that depends. I think on a lot of this, we’re going to say, well, that depends. Am I right?

        Mary Jo:

        That’s right. And it’s definitely unique for everyone’s situation.

        Bob:

        One of the things that I’ve noticed, Mary Jo, in listening to many of the radio programs where they talk about debt is no one ever thinks about mortgage interests in the mindset that it’s de-compounding. Do you know what I mean when I say that word de-compounding?

        Mary Jo:

        I think I do, but why don’t you explain it so that we make sure that our listeners understand.

        Bob:

        Well, as you’re paying a mortgage down, de-compounding is you’re paying less and less and less interest over the years where when you’re saving, you’re making more and more interest over the years. So you’ve got to put it on paper and look at this logically. I’m not against paying off a mortgage, but many times, we’ll have a client that will come in and say, I want to pay off my mortgage, but I want to take it all out of my 401k or my IRA to do so, which creates an enormous tax problem.

        Mary Jo:

        Right. I definitely would not encourage that because you’ve got longterm tax deferred compounding available, and it becomes income when you take it out. I always look at it as about the cost of the money.

        Bob:

        That’s exactly right. Yeah.

        Mary Jo:

        We’re looking at historically low rates. Even though we are in a rising interest rate environment, mortgage rates are still lower than they’ve been for the majority of my life, which has been pretty long. And so I think that that’s important. If you can keep it invested and make more money than what it’s costing you on the mortgage, that’s something to look at. I think that’s true about any kind of debt. The Bible says to avoid the use of debt. And so that’s something we want to think about as well. How do you feel about maintaining the debt? And when we talk about mortgage debt, I look at that a little bit differently. I always think of that as there’s an asset behind it. So, it’s an asset based debt and it’s something you could sell if there was ever any need for that money. Whereas revolving debt, you usually don’t know what you bought to accomplish that data or to accumulate that debt. I don’t see that those are the same kinds of debt with the same kinds of burdens, if that makes sense.

        Bob:

        It does. Let me tell you, Mary Jo, we’ve got a situation right now with a client that they want to take money out of their IRA to go pay off their mortgage. We’re talking about $150,000 to go pay that off. We looked at what the interest was going to be if he paid all the interest, the entire loan, and the interest itself is going to be less than the tax is going to be if he pulls out of his IRA. Plus like you said, he’s not making money in the IRA then. And even when I put this at a reasonable rate of return, so let’s say the mortgage interest rate is 4% or 4.5%, and then we put on the other side, the money that they’re going to use to pay it off is only making 3%. Maybe even making less, just a real conservative rate of return. You still make more interest than you pay interest on the mortgage, again, because it’s de-compounding, and no one ever thinks of that phrase de-compounding.

        Mary Jo:

        Well, that’s true, Bob. Also, is that client under 59.5, or are they over 59.5? So, if you took money out of your IRA prior to 59.5, you also may be looking at a 10% penalty. So that’s a big difference maker there.

        Bob:

        Even this client that I was talking about, he’s above 60. So he wouldn’t have to pay the 10%, but the taxes would still be more than the interest. Really, it doesn’t make sense in that situation. So this third question we get a lot of is how much can I expect to retire on? I know we have a general rule of thumb there.

        Mary Jo:

        Yes. And that’s a 4% spend down rate. If you look at all of the experts in planning, they’ll all generally say that if you’re withdrawing less than 4%, that you should be fine.

        Bob:

        Mary Jo, I call this the rule of 25 because take a four percent spin down rate. 25 times 4 is a 100%. By taking what you want to retire on and multiplying it by 25, it gives you the number you can withdraw at a 4% spend down rate. Here’s an example. If you wanted a $50,000 retirement income from your 401k, your investments, in addition to any social security or pensions you might get, you’re going to need $1,250,000 when you retire. The way I get this is my multiplying that $50,000 times 25.

        Mary Jo:

        Bob, that’s one of those overall, general calculations that work for most people, but I also encourage to do some ongoing financial planning where we can actually crunch these numbers for you and model what scenarios. That can really help clients understand. I think it’s a little more scientific, a little more exact, but it can give them peace of mind because one of the things that goes into ongoing planning is Monte Carlo analysis. What that does is hundreds or even thousands of iterations of the numbers and can calculate it. So you can get a pretty good feeling for what your odds are. And that’s very helpful.

        Bob:

        Also, through financial planning, things that we can do is we can look at different points in time and say, okay, when are you going to need a new car? When do you want to take that European cruise? Or maybe you would have an unforeseen medical need that goes back to detailed financial planning.

        Mary Jo:

        Exactly. New roof. Have you given thought to those big expenses that aren’t part of your everyday spending? I love that, Bob.

        Bob:

        The financial planning software we have is so amazing today that you can change that around, and it’s a living, breathing document.

        Mary Jo:

        That’s right. Every time we meet with clients as their situation changes or they have a life altering event, we can continually manipulate those numbers and refresh that and have an ongoing discussion about what’s changing in their financial situation. Well, that leads us to the next question, Bob, that I get a lot. I think this stems from a lot of what’s happening in the news media. The clients will ask, are you a fiduciary? And what exactly does that mean to me? And it’s a great question. From a financial sense, a fiduciary is someone who manages other people’s money in the beneficiary or the client’s best interest rather than serving their own interest. They’re not just pushing product that they have to offer. They’re actually finding solutions that are in the client’s best interest.

        Bob:

        Mary Jo, it’s interesting that we’re getting that question now, are you a fiduciary? Five years ago, I never got that question. But like you say, because of the news and the media, and it’s a good question because you need to be asking whoever’s going to be helping you with your financial planning and your financial advice if they’re a fiduciary. A few years ago, the government attempted to rule on this and make it a requirement of all advisors, brokers, product salesman, et cetera, but then this rule was struck down by the current administration.

        Mary Jo:

        Well, and here at CIS, we are registered investment advisors. Bob and I are both investment advisor representatives of the firm. The firm is the registered investment advisor. Also, as a CFP, I’m required to serve in this capacity as part of my designation. So as a certified financial planner, we are always charged with acting as a fiduciary, as you and I are Bob. I wouldn’t have it any other way. It just seems like the right way to do business.

        Bob:

        I will point out here, and not to throw arrows at anybody in our industry, but as an example, if your advisor only sells annuities, and the annuity is just paying him or her commission, they’re not in the fiduciary roll. Another question we get that comes along these lines is how are we compensated and how do we pay you? Like Mary Jo was just saying, we’re primarily fee based advisors. So what we do is we charge a fee that you pay us for our services, and usually this is a stated percentage for investment management. It’s gonna vary depending on how much you have under management, somewhere between a 0.5%, and it could be as high as 1.5% depending on the amount. The higher the investment managed amount, of course the lower the percentage fee is, or there’s also a flat fee for just financial planning services if done outside the scope of an investment advisor relationship. In other words, if we’re not managing anything for you, but you just want financial planning, then that’s done on strictly a fee basis. That usually is by the hour. It could have a minimal amount of hours. On our website on CISwealth.com, we specify a lot of what can be included. You can pick even different packages, and I’ll let you chime in on this a little bit.

        Mary Jo:

        Yes. So we can customize that financial planning for whatever your situation is, whatever your needs. A lot of clients don’t need comprehensive financial planning, but they do have a few questions. So we can do that on an hourly basis. I think that’s a great way to approach it. Bob, I just also wanted to add that we do provide protection solutions or product solutions such as liability insurance, longterm care insurance, other types of insurance products, and we may receive a commission for these products. And then that commission is paid by the issuer of the product, but it’s also provided as a service to our clients. It’s not our primary focus of our business. We have access to it. You and I are both insurance licensed, but the primary business is advice. And for that, we do get a fee.

        Bob:

        If we do sell something to you, like a life insurance policy, while we say it’s commission-based, we have no problem with letting you know up front what that commission is. We’re not going to hide anything. Okay. So here’s another question we seem to get is have you heard the terms active management and passive management. What’s the difference between these and what do these mean? I know you have some good things to share here.

        Mary Jo:

        Well, we’re hearing about that lately. At least I have been, and these approaches differ in how the investment manager utilizes investments that are held in the portfolio over time. Not to get too deep, but I think it does merit an explanation. Active portfolio management focuses on outperforming the market compared to a specific benchmark, while passive portfolio management aims to mimic the investment holdings of a particular index.

        Bob:

        That kind of comes back to all these index funds that are available to everyone out in the marketplace now, and just really understanding that those indexes are not managed. They’re just strictly investing in a group, a basket of stocks, or a basket of bonds. And it’s a buy and hold through all market cycles. It doesn’t matter which company it is. If it fits in that basket, it’s going in that basket. Is that a good way to put it, you think?

        Mary Jo:

        Absolutely.

        Bob:

        See, the other side of this is active management, and this is like through a portfolio manager, and they’re engaged in actively managing the holdings that they put into the portfolio. They pay very close attention to things like market trends, shifts in the economy, changes to the political landscape, and factors that may affect specific companies. So this data is used to time the purchase or sale of investments in an effort to take advantage of these price irregularities that we have. Active managers claim that these processes boost the potential for greater returns than those achieved simply by mimicking the overall stock index or other securities listed on a particular index.

        Mary Jo:

        I think it would be helpful to share an example of that. Passive management is also referred to as index fund management, which Bob referred to, and this involves the creation of a portfolio that’s intended to track the returns of a particular market index or benchmark. So, let’s look at one that’s very popular. For example, the S&P 500, this is a common index that’s made up of the 500 largest, publicly traded companies and the amount of ownership of each company in the fund is proportionate to their market weight or the size of that company. So managers select stocks and other securities that are listed on an index and apply the same weighting. The index basically just mimics the S&P 500 or the 500 largest publicly traded companies. So the purpose of passive management portfolio is to generate a return that’s the same as the index instead of outperforming.

        Bob:

        Now, Mary Jo, if I’m driving a car and I’m listening to this right now, I think I got all that, but it made my head spin a little bit.

        Mary Jo:

        So in summary…

        Bob:

        Okay. In summary, active managers buy and sell frequently, and they’re really trying to beat the overall market. And they’re trying to beat other fund managers as well. There’s just a real big difference between active and passive management.

        Mary Jo:

        Another point – you might’ve heard the term alpha. When a fund manager outperforms the market, that difference is referred to as alpha. So an active manager, their goal is to provide alpha for their clients.

        Bob:

        I believe there’s different strategies for different scenarios. And Mary Jo, as you know, we use both of these strategies. We use both the index strategy, and we use a biblically responsible index, and there are several to choose from now and more coming online it seems like monthly and yearly. Well, I remember when I first started doing this many, many years ago, and wanting to be biblically responsible investing. Again, that’s really looking at what companies are we investing in and are those companies involved in immoral agendas that would violate biblical principles. And when we first started with biblically responsible investing 20, 25 years ago, there were very few choices, but today there’s choices across the full spectrum of an asset allocation model.

        Mary Jo:

        Absolutely. And so there are indexes that track small companies, mid companies, international, even emerging markets. So, there’s an index – an even bond index – for every sector in the market, you can track an index. So Bob, our next question I’ve gotten from clients. I want to save money outside of my retirement accounts, but I’m concerned about tax consequences. Is there a way to do this tax efficiently? So how do you advise clients on this?

        Bob:

        Well, there’s a couple ways. One is using a manager that has a tax efficient approach. The second way is using an ETF like an exchange traded fund. Again, we like to use a biblically responsible one because these are much more tax efficient than the traditional funds out there that are constantly buying and selling. The nice thing is there’s those choices. We can build an individual portfolio too, as well as we can do the tax loss harvesting at the end of the year. So, we can look at our winners. We can look at our losers and we can sell our losers to offset the gains in the winners and go into the same type of asset class before the 31 day period, which gets into tax planning.

        Mary Jo:

        That’s great. That’s awesome.

        Bob:

        So another question we get, this is a big one, is what types of clients do you serve best? So I’m gonna let you get into that some, and then I’m going to chime in.

        Mary Jo:

        Well, that is a great question. One of the things is we have clients that are looking to work with a trusted advocate and they’re looking for a longterm relationship with an advisor, those people that are willing to delegate their day to day investment decisions. Bob, I have found that most people, they just don’t have the time. They don’t have the interest, and they don’t have the knowledge to do it themselves. So they’re open to delegating. They hire out their lawn. They take their car to the car wash. They have a maid come in and clean their house. So your investment portfolio is no different. Your time may be better spent doing something else that you enjoy.

        Bob:

        Another thing is we get the question, “Do you have a minimum?” We do and we don’t Mary Jo. I mean, we best serve clients that have investments between $500,000 to 2 million, but we can serve those with a lower amount. But then we have a flat fee that we have to charge on an annual basis just to stay in business. And that’s all written out on our website and described in detail. So the main thing is is those of you that are looking for help with financial planning decisions we want to help you and we’ll figure out a way.

        Mary Jo:

        Another question I get quite frequently is what lessons have I learned as an advisor over the course of working with clients? And that’s a good one. You have any thoughts on that?

        Bob:

        One thing I always say is, look at my hair, you see the gray?

        Mary Jo:

        I see less of it now, Bob.

        Bob:

        Well, there’s a lot that has been going on lately. The one constant is change and the market’s gonna go up and the market’s going to go down at some point. We had such a long bull market this last time around when we’ve had some of these downturns recently. People have forgotten that the markets can go down. So that is the one thing I’ve learned as an advisor is helping people get through those times because they can be very emotional

        Mary Jo:

        They can. All money decisions are emotional decisions. One of the things that I’ve learned is that we really have to ask the right questions as an advisor. And we have to really, really listen to the answers and really kind of dig deep to get the emotion. What’s behind that question and there’s always some level of emotion, especially for most clients. When it comes to money, a lot of time it’s fear. And so we really need to explore that and really understand what’s driving the client. One of the other things that I have found is discipline. I think discipline is the difference maker. When working with an advisor, you’ve got the discipline of regular meetings and ongoing focus on your finances. When you do it yourself, it’s kind of like cleaning your closet. Oh, I’ll get to it later, and later never comes. And those accounts will sit idle for years without you ever even lifting the hood and seeing what’s going on.

        Bob:

        Some other things, over the years, Mary Jo, in working with an advisor is we’ve helped people with spending decisions and even decisions about buying possibly a rental home and is that a good decision? Many times, those spending decisions that we have helped people with have resulted in a $6,000, $10,000 savings versus if they’d have made that decision otherwise. Does that make sense to you when I say that?

        Mary Jo:

        Absolutely. Looking at both sides of it.

        Bob:

        Another question we get as a financial future, what are you most concerned about regarding the future? I know you have a comment there and then I’ve got one too.

        Mary Jo:

        For me, it really is about the increasing cost of longevity and the longevity economy. And we’re living longer. Healthcare costs are increasing at an alarming rate. And what does that do to people’s planning? That’s a big one for me.

        Bob:

        Big one for me, Mary Jo, is our current political environment that we’re in and the resulting regulatory environment. And when I say political, I know that there are some representatives that are even talking about a huge tax increase. I’ve heard as high as 70%. That really concerns me that that would even be mentioned in the political environment.

        Mary Jo:

        I know, but we could go on for hours about that one. Bob, another great question that we get from clients are, have you lost any clients in the last year? And if so, why? And I think that’s a very fair question. How would you respond to that one?

        Bob:

        I think it is a fair question. The way I’m going to answer this, I wrote this down, because I wanted to make sure I got this one right. And it is natural in the financial industry business to lose clients on an annual basis. And CIS wealth management group is no exception, but the ones that we do lose, it seems to be because of these reasons that I found over the years. Well, the first one is death. I mean, you can’t do anything about that one. Like we just had the death of a recent client. When that happens, we do want to be able to help the family members and who that money is going to. We can help them like we helped their parent or maybe the aunt or the uncle that left them funds. Another thing that we’ll lose clients over occasionally, but this is more in the past, is when they move to another state and they want an advisor that they could sit across the desk from, but that’s not happening near as much as it used to because of technology today and how we can do online meetings. Boy, the third one, this is a big one – chasing investment returns. They hear about a relative or a friend doing better than they are at the time. Then, Mary Jo, there’s what we call the seven year itch, which is very similar to thinking you need to move somewhere after seven years and the philosophy that the grass is always green on the other side. But many times we say class return after finding out they didn’t.

        Mary Jo:

        That’s true. The grass is always greener and that applies to so many situations and it doesn’t really pan out.

        Bob:

        We’ve got personality differences. And then the last one, I’ve noticed a few times, is a close relative or close friend has decided to be a financial advisor. They want to go help them out.

        Mary Jo:

        That’s true. And Bob, the next question, and this one is a very easy one. Clients ask us, how can I check your background? Put another way, have you had any securities violations or been charged with any unethical business practices? And it’s a question that all clients should ask their advisor. And the simple answer is brokercheck.com. That’s where you can see all regulatory disclosures.

        Bob:

        And we’re down to these last couple of questions. One is we seem to be moving into an of rising interest rates. How is this going to impact my future goals.

        Mary Jo:

        Really, rising interest rates shouldn’t have an impact on our clients. We manage our investment allocations accordingly. We typically look at bonds and other types of investments that pay interest, and they tend to be more sensitive to rising rates. So, we will pick and select types of bonds that are not going to be that sensitive in those environments. We’ll look for shorter term bonds during these periods. Short term bonds are not as interest rate sensitive. So that’s one of the fixes, if you will.

        Bob:

        Another question we’ll get, and this is our last one for today, is on your website we talk about integrating faith and finance. So what exactly do we mean by this?

        Mary Jo:

        The advice that we provide is based on biblical wisdom. The Bible has so much to say about money and wisdom.

        Bob:

        Some additional training that equips and empowers us as disciples of Christ is the training that we get through Kingdom Advisors, which is an organization nationwide that brings together Christian advisors and trains us on biblical financial stewardship.

        Mary Jo:

        And we’ve gotten so much from that. There are several great examples of scriptures that support this. What are some of your favorite ones?

        Bob:

        Psalms 24:1 that says, “The earth is the Lord’s and everything in it.” I believe that God owns it all, and he lays it out in his word how we can manage the resources that he has given us.

        Mary Jo:

        I think we covered it all. God owns it all. What more can you say?

        Bob:

        I believe we have.

        [DISCLOSURES]

        Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor. Monte Carlo simulations generates thousands of probable performance outcomes called scenarios, which might occur in the future. An Investment simulation incorporates economic data, such as a range of potential interest rates, inflation rates, tax rates, and so on combined in random order. As a result it’s designed to account for the uncertainty and performance variations that are always present in financial markets. Many factors determine the actual return on your investment and your actual investment return may vary greatly from the results offered by this simulation. The guarantees of any insurance contract, including fixed returns, payouts, and death benefit guarantees are contingent on the claims paying ability of the issuing company. Working with a financial advisor is not a guarantee of investment success or that one’s financial goals will be achieved. Investing in certain securities may help to hedge against certain risk, but does not imply any guarantee from loss. There are no guarantees any investment or strategy will meet its intended objective. To determine which investment may be appropriate for you, consult with your financial, tax, or legal professional.

        31 min

      About Christian Financial Perspectives

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      Biblical wisdom for financial decisions and goals. Conversations about managing money according to Christian principles, featuring expert insights on budgeting, investing, giving, and building wealth…

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