Christian Financial Perspectives

By Christian Financial AdvisorsBusiness Religion & Spirituality Christianity Investing

Christian Financial Perspectives episodes

May 28, 2019 36 – Planning for Incapacity Part 1 of 2
Click below to listen to Episode 36 – Planning for Incapacity Part 1 of 2
Planning for Incapacity Part 1 of 2

Check out part 1 of our 2 part series on Planning for Incapacity.

More episodes >>

On today’s show, Bob and Mary Jo are joined with Ron First of Christian Insurance Services to discuss in a 2 part series on how to plan for incapacity. Who doesn’t want that? So listen to this episode to learn about an extremely important topic and one you should pay special attention to no matter what stage of life you are in.
When it comes to retirement, the most important thing most retirees want to protect is their independence. Health care is important but independence is even more so. When it comes to incapacity, many people have the mindset that, “It won’t happen to me.” That is just foolish thinking. Statistics clearly indicate that your odds of being incapacitated are far higher than the odds that you will die prematurely. We hope and pray it won’t happen to us, but unfortunately, the numbers tell a different story.

GUESTS: Ron First
HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®

* Ron First and Christian Insurance Services are not affiliated with Christian Financial Advisors
Mentioned In This Episode

Christian Financial Advisors
Website

Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

Ron First
Linkedin

Christian Insurance Services
Website

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.
SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

[INTRODUCTION]
Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.
Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.
Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?
Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.
[EPISODE]
Bob:
1 Timothy 5:8, “But those who won’t care for their relatives, especially those in their own household, have denied the true faith. Such people are worse than unbelievers. Boy, it’s interesting to listen to this scripture today, as we bring you our next podcast called “Planning for Incapacity”, and this is part one. Seems like the most important things retirees want to protect is their independence when it comes to retirement. Health care is important, but independence is even more important.
Mary Jo:
On today’s show, we’re going to begin our series on planning for incapacity. We’re going to start with a discussion on some of the basic tools available to help you maintain and protect your independence, and who doesn’t want that. So listen up! Today’s episode of Christian Financial Perspectives begins an extremely important topic and one you should pay special attention to no matter what stage of life you’re in.
Bob:
It seems like when people come to incapacity, and we’re going to have Ron on with us today, that they have this mindset, it’s not going to happen to me. You remember the program we did on procrastination, and that’s one of the main reasons for financial failure, and that mindset that is not going to happen to me, it’s just foolish. Just not wise because the statistics clearly indicate the odds of being incapacitated are far higher than if you’re going to die prematurely. So we really hope that this never happens to us, but today we’re go in and tell a different story about it. I’m very excited to have a good Christian brother of mine and dear friend, we see each other every day. Ron First from Christian Insurance Services. I’ve known Ron for well over 10 years now, and he brings a biblical perspective for integrating faith and protection. So Ron, welcome to the program.
Ron:
Thank you so much for having me, Bob, Mary Jo. It’s a blessing to be here truly.
Mary Jo:
Ron’s our resident expert and we are going to tap into Ron’s expertise shortly when we discuss both disability insurance and long-term care insurance as tools to help us ensure and maintain our financial independence as we age. But before we dig into that, let’s start with some more basic tools. And those tools include your estate planning documents. A health care crisis can happen to any of us at any time, and advanced planning can keep us in control and ensure that our wishes are carried out. So planning for incapacity is the best way to protect your independence. And after all, I think we all agree that’s what we all want. So the first of those tools is a will, a basic will. It controls the disposition of your assets after your death. It also names the person you have elected to be in charge of your estate, the executor of your estate, and it should be updated and kept current as your situation changes. And if you die without a will, remember that your assets will be awarded to someone by a court appointed administrator. This may or may not be the person of your choosing. We all know that families change over time. Your needs may change, and so your will should change along with that. One and done and put it on the shelf and forget it, that doesn’t work in the families of today. Wouldn’t you agree, Bob,
Bob:
I would, Mary Jo. And there’s another piece of this that’s so important is not just having your will completely current and appointing those people that are going to take care of the estate, but while you’re living, an important piece, a very important piece of this, is having a living will and a healthcare directive so that you can convey your decisions about medical treatment and what you want in case that comes along for an end of life decision. So if you can’t tell the doctors what you want, you need to put that in writing way beforehand to avoid confusion later on. Looking at details like life support, artificially administered nutrition, feeding tubes, hydration, or intravenous antibiotics, pain management. I think I got through all those long words, but those are such important things to think about in advance of needing healthcare when you don’t have the capacity to say what you want.
Mary Jo:
Oh, Bob, that is absolutely so important. My mother had all her wishes spelled out for us and she had been very explicit in what she wanted in her end of life. And after a long journey with Alzheimer’s, she was no longer able to communicate with us, but we had it in writing. Sh e’d been very clear early on. So we knew exactly what she wanted and it made us, coming behind her, able to just administer her wishes. It took the burden off of us. So I really encourage everyone to have that in place as a gift to your loved ones. The next tools we want to look at are power of attorneys. There is both a medical power of attorney and a durable power of attorney, and these are two different documents. The medical power of attorney appoints the person you choose to make decisions about your healthcare in case you’re not able to do so. And it also can include your religious and moral beliefs. And then a durable power of attorney appoints a trusted family member or friend to make financial decisions in the event you’ve become incapacitated.
Bob:
We’ve gone over the will, the living will, and the healthcare directive, the medical power of attorney, the durable power of attorney, and then this last document out of hospital do not resuscitate. What this form does is it instructs the doctors and all those that are taking care of you in the healthcare profession to forego resuscitation attempts and permit you to die a natural death so you’re not kept alive by a bunch of machines.
Mary Jo:
And it allows you peace and dignity that you choose. So important. I wanted to share a story, and I know Bob, you can relate to this having had three daughters, but every person over the age of 18 should have at a minimum a will and both power of attorneys in place. So, let me kind of paint this scenario for you, if you’re a parent and you have a college aged child over the age of 18, but who are still in college and under your household and your care and your influence, and let’s just say they’re still single and they don’t have a spouse in the picture, but you may not be able to make healthcare decisions or access information about their financial accounts on their behalf in case there’s a medical crisis. So think about that. Your 20 year old son or daughter has a skiing accident while they’re on spring break, and they require emergency medical attention. And even as their parent, the medical staff is not legally obligated to provide you any medical information on their condition. They are a legal adult. And if you don’t have that power of attorney and advanced healthcare directive, you really have no legal standing to make medical decisions or access medical information or take care of their bills while they’re incapacitated. So you need that for both medical reasons as well as financial reasons. Does that make sense? And what do you think of that, Bob?
Bob:
Oh, it absolutely does. And as I think about my own daughters, we need that in place because if something did happen to one of them and like you said, they’re over 18 now, all of them. Actually, the youngest is 25. But if something did happen to them, we don’t have that document in place. They may not talk to us.
Mary Jo:
Let’s look at even another situation. Let’s just say you’re a single man and you buy a home. The deed to the home is in your name. You get married and your new spouse’s name is not on the title of the home. It still remains in your name. 25 years later, you die prematurely. Your home does not necessarily pass to your spouse and is not considered community property. It’s not titled joint tenants with rights of survivorship.
Bob:
Most people don’t think about this.
Mary Jo:
It’s the titling of the assets that are so important. So what you’re saying here is that if I owned my home before I got married and then I get married and I don’t put the home in both of our names, that if something happened to me in either my first or my second marriage, but I’m thinking of a second marriage, for some reason. Thinking that maybe your first wife passed away or her husband and you get remarried and you want to take care of your spouse, but if you owned the property beforehand and you didn’t put it in both your names, and if you passed away prematurely, your spouse would not necessarily get the property. Is that what you’re saying?
Mary Jo:
That very well could happen. And we want to pause here and just say, Bob and I are not legal experts. So we want to encourage you to consult your own legal situation and rules vary by state. Some states are community property states and some states aren’t. So you want to look at this very closely. You have second and third marriages. You have property that’s held outside of joint tenant titlement. So all of this kind of muddies the water, if you will, but what you really want to pay attention to are who your legal heirs are. Instead of it being your spouse, it could be your parents. Then, your siblings might get a higher ranking than your spouse. So you want to investigate all that. That’s really what we’re saying.
Bob:
Well, when you think about planning for incapacity, this is something that most people don’t think about.
Mary Jo:
Right. And there are some other rules where your current spouse may only inherit a third share of home or land, and the other two thirds of the home or land could go to your parents or your children who have a different agenda. What if they’re not a big fan of the new spouse, so they’re not motivated to protect her or him and make sure that they’re able to stay there for their lives. So without a will documenting your wishes, your assets will pass according to state law. Texas is a community property state, so much will be determined by when the assets were purchased.
Ron:
Let me chime in here. This is very, very important. There’s a scripture. Again, I’m very, very bad at citations, but it says that we are to know the condition of our flocks. Bob, I know you know this scripture.` You’ve quoted it many times. I think this is a great opportunity and people need to be aware that they’re constantly looking at your assets. Review them constantly so there’s no doubt about who’s getting what, and I think this is all part of making sure that when you go to be with the Lord, everything is taken care of for your family and you’re being a wise steward.
Mary Jo:
What is it that they used to say in school, without prior planning, you get poor results. Excuse my French.
Bob:
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I meet with people all the time that are in a second marriage because the first spouse passed away. They’ve been in this second marriage for maybe 15 or 20 years, and they want to make sure that if something happens to them that their spouse is taken care of. And in this case, if you’ve not structured it correctly and you’ve procrastinated about this, it may not happen.
Mary Jo:
This kind of brings up another good point. People ask us all the time if they can use free online services to create all these legal documents. And my answer is yes, you can, but we don’t encourage this. We feel that consulting an attorney who will understand state law, understands your unique situation, and makes sure that the language is correct so that your wishes are spelled out is so important. What do you think about that?
Bob:
I absolutely do. And maybe you’ve heard me talk about this in the past when we’ve talked about estate planning. There’s what’s called a QTIP, like cleaning out your ear, but it’s called a Q-tip. It means qualified trust, and what that trust does is it makes sure that that second spouse is taken care of and then whatever assets are left after she’s gone, it goes back to the original children of each one. So this really applies in that second marriage where you’ve lost your first spouse.
Mary Jo:
And there are many different kinds of trusts besides the QTIP trust. All of those are important to accomplish various goals, but they’re definitely beyond the scope of today’s show.
Bob:
Well, as we’ve been talking about this planning for incapacity, we’re going to get in with our guest now because we had him come on thinking about ways to protect things like your income and long-term care, because I know when I’m meeting with clients everyday, they’re concerned about long-term care expenses. So, let’s start looking at those two aspects of planning for incapacity.
Mary Jo:
Bob, as we’ve recently been talking about our annual review meeting process and exploring ways to improve this, one of the questions we asked clients we’re working with, especially working professionals, is what have you done to protect your income? And it’s interesting how many people never give a thought to becoming incapacitated, but it’s their human capital or their ability to earn money that’s their most important asset.
Bob:
Okay. Ron, I want you to chime in here because this is why we have you as a guest on our program today, speaking into this disability and the importance of it.
Ron:
Yeah. Disability is defined as being unable to perform your normal job duties. Most people think that social security disability, SSDI or workers’ compensation, is sufficient to protect their ability to earn income, but it’s really not. In fact, from 2006 to 2015, only 34% of social security disability insurance claimants had their applications approved. That’s significant. 23% at the initial application stage qualified the remainder after a reconsideration or appeals process. That’s because the social security disability insurance guidelines say you have to be unable to work as well as perform basic life skills, almost nearing the ADL or activities of daily living. It takes three to five months for an application to be approved. And the backlog is hellacious. In 2017, the appeal cases were more than 1 million. That’s incredible. So, that may equate to 18 months of lost income. What do you do?
Bob:
Ron, I think about this. Yeah. What do you do unless you have enormous cash reserves? What do you do?
Mary Jo:
Gentlemen, there’s a statistic that I think is important to share with our listeners. According to a study, 30% of all Americans between the ages of 35 and 65 suffered a disability lasting longer than 90 days. One of the key things we want to drive home is that the risk of disability is real.
Bob:
Yeah. And Mary Jo, I don’t have the stats in my head right now, but you hear that most people have less than a couple thousand dollars in their savings account for a major catastrophe like this. It adds insult to injury.
Mary Jo:
They’re unprepared.
Ron:
Yeah. The average social security disability insurance benefits as of January 2018, believe it or not, was $1,197 a month. That equates to $14,000 annually, barely enough to meet the poverty guidelines. For a single person, it’s $12,000 and the household is $16,000. It’s incredible. People don’t prepare.
Bob:
They don’t prepare and you lose your job. What do you do, Ron?
Ron:
Well, that’s where having income protection – it’s probably a better term than disability protection – that’s where it is essential to have.
Mary Jo:
And where does workers’ comp play into this?
Ron:
Well, workman’s comp only provides for benefits if you’re disabled or become ill at the workplace. It has to be work-related. In 2016, only 1% of American workers missed work because of an occupational illness or injury – 1%.
Bob:
So if you fall off the roof of your house and you’re injured for six months or you’re in a car accident, you’re not going to be covered.
Ron:
Exactly.
Mary Jo:
I have this image in my mind. So, if you fall off the roof of the house putting up Christmas lights, for example. How many people do that?
Bob:
You know me. I always look at it from the perspective of what could I pay somebody to do that versus what would the emergency room bill be?
Mary Jo:
Exactly.
Ron:
Well, Bob brings up a very interesting point. That’s what insurance is all about. It’s actually paying an insurance company to defer or accept your risk. That totally explains what insurance is about, transferring risk.
Mary Jo:
There’s two different kinds of disability. There’s group disability and individual disability. Can you talk to us a little bit about that?
Ron:
Sure. Let’s start with the group disability. Many employers will offer group disability at the workplace. And typically, you have to get in during what’s called the open enrollment period. Group disability insurance is based on a master policy and because of that, you have large numbers depending upon the size of the company you’re working for. And if it’s a private employer or public governmental employer, because there are different laws that are involved. But if you’re blessed to be a part of a group and a big group, and the employer has a master plan or a master disability policy, rates can be extremely low, which is fantastic. You can’t get that in an individual plan. Rates are significantly higher, but it’s important to remember that group disability doesn’t mean that’s the end of protecting your income because most plans will allow for 60% of your gross salary. Take taxes after that and you may be down to 55-50% of your salary. What do you do after that? Who could live on 50% of their salary?
Mary Jo:
It’s something, but it’s certainly not enough. And there’s a difference between long-term and short-term disability.
Ron:
Correct? Mary Jo, short term is considered anything less than one year, three months, six months versus long-term, which is anything longer than one year. And typically people for longterm will look at one, three, five. The best plan is going to be up to 65, or even 67, for that matter.
Bob:
So, if there’s a short-term disability policy, Ron, does that mean it doesn’t have a deductible with it? Because I know with disability, a deductible is not considered necessarily a dollar amount, but it’s considered days, right? You look at deduct-ability as days. How long have you been disabled before it kicks in?
Ron:
Yeah, we don’t typically talk about the deductibles per se. That’s more for property. When it comes to disability, we’re looking at what’s called the elimination period, how long it will take before your benefits actually kick in and stop paying.
Mary Jo:
I spent a lot of years in the corporate world and one thing that people need to be aware of is the employer typically provides short term disability as a group benefit, and you don’t have to pay for that. It’s been designed to provide maternity leave for women for the majority of the time or extended sick leave. But then, when it comes to longer term disability, they don’t provide that. So it’s up to the employee to fund that or pay for that benefit if they choose to. Isn’t that your experience, Ron?
Ron:
Absolutely. Yeah. And that’s another advantage of the group plan. It will provide for time for maternity, whereas an individual policy does not provide for maternity benefits.
Bob:
So Ron, if you buy a long-term policy, it’s over a year, so you can buy that like in a one-year increment, a two year, three year, five year, or even all the way to age 65 or 67, depending on when social security starts.
Ron:
Absolutely. That’s called your benefit period. And people vary depending upon their needs. Of course the longer your benefit period is, the more risk is being transferred to the insurance company and they charge higher premiums for that. Oftentimes, I deal with a lot of people that take care of one half of their income protection, they’ll buy life insurance, not realizing that you’re typically going to be disabled before you pass. And that’s why disability insurance is that much more expensive is because there’s a greater propensity for you to be disabled or ill rather than passing away during your peak earning years.
Bob:
What are those stats? We all know we’re going to die, but what are the stats of becoming disabled for, say, somebody that’s 30 years old becoming disabled before they’re 65. Do you have those stats?
Ron:
I do. Actually, for a 20 year old today, typically one in four 20 year olds today, will become disabled whether by illness or by an accident outside of the workplace, within their given work span to age 65 or retirement. That’s substantial. That’s 25%.
Mary Jo:
Another thing that y’all have been talking that came to mind is how important the portability of disability insurance is. So if it’s an employer based plan or a group plan, it’s not portable. It won’t go with you and travel if you change jobs. Can you talk a little bit about why it’s important for people to consider an individual, long-term disability, as opposed to a group long-term disability for that reason.
Ron:
Excellent point. There is no portability in a disability policy that you get from your employer. So, that’s significant because if you leave your job, you still want to have disability insurance. And what happens if you develop diabetes or any type of debilitating disease where you could still work, but it makes you uninsurable on an individual policy.
Mary Jo:
So the older we get, the higher that risk.
Bob:
Absolutely. That’s why insurance costs more as you get older. Your mortality increases, as well as your morbidity. And remember, there’s two different ways that underwriters look at disability insurance. Disability is predicated on morbidity, your ability to work. The number one cause of disability is not an accident. The number one cause of disability is going to be neuromuscular or musculoskeletal issues. And then you have cancer, heart disease, diabetes. These come in second and third, et cetera.
Mary Jo:
So more health related issues.
Bob:
I want to chime in here because most of our listeners know, and of course you ought to know, that just last year, Rachael got cancer, which is my wife for those of you that don’t know. And we have disability coverage cause Rachael works for Christian Financial Advisors as a consultant. And we were able to collect disability while she was getting all of her cancer treatment. So, I mean, we were covered so well. We were covered by the disability, then we were covered by our group health plan. And while this cost probably over a hundred thousand, we saw some of the bills. We were not out of pocket at all on this entire illness, and it sure took away the pressure.
Mary Jo:
Ron, can you talk a little bit about the individual disability policies and the points and the features that are important to consider? I think we want to make sure that we run through those while time allows.
Ron:
Oh, definitely. And let me add this. This is very, very important, and it’s going to become a surprise to many people. Just because you have group disability insurance for your employer doesn’t mean you don’t need an individual plan because we already know that 60% is the maximum benefit for the most part. If you work for a private employer, you can supplement that plan by having an individual plan. Remember, your group disability plan at work is going to be very inexpensive. So, it behooves you to make up that 40% differential, the distance between what your group plan will provide for and what you can do. You can supplement that on your own with a parallel individual plan.
Bob:
Okay, Ron, I’ve got to ask here, because I know someone’s listening and thinking, how much is this going to cost? And of course you can say, how much is it not going to cost, if that’s the right way to say it? If you don’t get it when you’re disabled, it’s going to hurt you a lot worse. Is this cost prohibitive for some people to get the additional disability coverage, or can most people afford that cost?
Ron:
Yeah. That’s a great question, Bob and comparatively speaking to like term life or permanent disability insurance is significantly more expensive because the propensity of you becoming disabled is that much greater, but it’s so essential.
Mary Jo:
Especially if you’re the primary breadwinner of the family and you’ve got a lot of people that are dependent on your income. I think it becomes even more critical.
Ron:
Absolutely. Mary Jo, I wanted to get back to the individual disability policy. Can we talk a little about the ins and outs of that? Remember that the definition of disability is being unable to perform your regular job duties. So it’s very important that when you’re looking at an individual policy to have certain endorsements, commonly known as riders, built into your policy. The characteristics of building an individual disability policy, not all disability policies are created equal. The base policy itself, the language of the policies, differ from one company to another. It’s very important to make sure you’re looking at the language and what lay person understands the language of a disability policy? They don’t. Most salespeople don’t know it.
Mary Jo:
So one of the things that resonates with me that I’ve heard so often about disability policies is you want to make sure it specifies that it will replace, or require you to be able to perform, your own occupation or any occupation. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Ron:
Great point. Let’s say that I’m working with a doctor, or giving some advice to a doc that’s looking for disability insurance. That doctor wants what’s called an “own occ” or an “own occupation policy”, meaning that if doctor becomes incapacitated and disabled and cannot work. That doctor doesn’t want a policy that will say, okay, well you can’t perform surgery. This doctor happens to be an orthopedic surgeon. Some insurance policies would say, okay, you can’t work as a surgeon, but you can work at a desk. So, we’re going to pay you a partial benefit. You can do the math on that.
Ron:
They may say that he’s eligible to go teach medical school, for example. Exactly. Absolutely. Great point. So you want to make sure that you have that “own occ” endorsement or rider built into your policy.
Bob:
Ron, I’ve got a question here because I’m listening to all of these things you’ve gotta be thinking about, and you really know disability insurance. Do most agents out there understand disability the way you do, or have you just made a real strong effort to understand disability?
Ron:
Well, it goes back to a holistic perspective on financial planning and I approach my practice, Christian Insurance Services, we approach it from a holistic perspective. Many salespeople approach it from selling a policy and they’re not, they don’t know the rest of the story. What does the rest of the financial aspect of that family looking like? It all plays into it. That’s why I urge my clients not to purchase any type of insurance product based upon price, but on wisdom and make sure you’re getting counseled. There is counsel in the wisdom of many. So you need to know how this part of the puzzle, disability, fits into the whole financial house. So, some things that you want to look at when considering, or constructing, an individual disability policy is you want to make sure you have a COLA provision. That’s the cost of living adjustment. As inflation goes up, your earning power is lowered. You want to make sure you have at least a 3% built into that. Any disability policy cannot be canceled or non-renewed outside of you not paying your premium. So that is not an issue, but it’s very important to consider your waiting period or elimination period. Again, your emergency fund will dictate how much risk you were able to take. If you have six months of reserve capital, then you can go further out in elimination period. And most critical, I would say, is you have to make sure that your policy is structured with guaranteed ability to make purchases in the future without showing uninsurability, because life happens. You’re fine today, but you develop diabetes 10 years later. You want to make sure you can buy more protection without showing uninsurability because the underwriter may say, sorry, we’re not giving you any more. You have diabetes. That’s a critical rider that has to be in that policy.
Mary Jo:
You think about how many executives are earning modestly in their forties, but as they go into their fifties and sixties, their salaries and their total compensation packages increase drastically. So if they haven’t upped the amount of their coverage, they could certainly have a major shortfall.
Bob:
One last point I was thinking about, and I need to ask you, Ron, can you get disability coverage past 65? You cannot, may. You may be able to get it to age 67, but it will be cost prohibitive and not recommended for getting it for two years of spread between 65 and 67, all intents and purposes. Bob, the answer is no,
Mary Jo:
There’s a couple of other types of disability contracts that we want to run through for our listeners. There’s business overhead expense, which is available to business owners. There’s also key person disability, and this can provide funding of temporary placement or training of a successor if the owner of the firm were to be incapacitated. There’s also a disability buyout, which provides income to fund a buy-sell agreement that can be triggered by a total disability of a shareholder or owner. And those payouts can either be made in a lump sum, an installment, or a combination of the two. I know a lot of our listeners are business owners, so these are some things that they may want to look into. Ron, before we wrap up, is there anything else our listeners should be aware of when considering types of disability contracts?
Ron:
Yes. So the disability policy, as you’re stating, is a tool that could be used for different structuring in your business. Just again, make sure that you have that guaranteed ability to purchase more benefits without having to show insurability for that. Critical.
Bob:
So Ron, as we end the program, a couple more things I want to ask is what are some things you should consider about the company that’s actually going to be insuring you, the insurance company itself?
Ron:
Yeah. There are that many disability insurance companies out there compared to the life insurance. You basically need to make sure that the company is at least rated A or A+= by AM Best. And they’re going to offer the type of riders or endorsements that we were talking about, cost of living, guaranteed insurability, those kinds of things. But for the most part, there aren’t that many disability companies out there selling insurance.
Mary Jo:
Ron, we want to thank you for joining us today. Our guest has been Ron First with Christian Insurance Services. Join us next time as we discuss planning for the cost of long-term care or longevity. We’ll talk about that as another great tool to help you maintain your independence as you age.
Bob:
And one last thing is make sure that all of your loved ones know about your coverages in advance before an emergency happens.
[DISCLOSURES]
Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor. This show is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information on the subjects covered. It is not however intended to provide specific legal, tax, or other professional advice. Estate planning can involve a complex web of tax rules and regulations. Tax laws surrounding estate planning concepts are subject to change. Please consult an estate planning attorney prior to making any financial decisions.
35 min
May 21, 2019 35 – Car Buying 101
Are you thinking about buying a new car, trading your car in, or just wondering how to save money when it comes to the entire car industry? Many of us give very little thought to the total cost of owning a car. Join Bob and Mary Jo as they share their experiences, tips, and tricks when it comes to purchasing a new car.
32 min
May 21, 201935 – Car Buying 101
Click below to listen to Episode 35 – Car Buying 101
Car Buying 101

Check out these tips and tricks when it comes to buying a car.

More episodes >>

What investment loses over 50% of its value on average every 4 years consistently? Would you ever voluntarily buy a mutual fund, stock, or piece of real estate that will lose 50% of its value over 4 years? It can be absolutely one of the worst investments there is (unless it’s a collectable classic). Yet, we all buy cars like it’s nothing.
Are you thinking about buying a new car, trading your car in, or just wondering how to save money when it comes to the entire car industry? Many of us give very little thought to the total cost of owning a car. Join Bob and Mary Jo as they share their experiences, tips, and tricks when it comes to purchasing a new car. The more money that you save on purchasing a vehicle, the more cash you can put into savings or investments. Some of the topics that they cover include:
Helping to get a better price for your trade-in vehicle
The best time to purchase a new car
Negotiating skills

HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®
Mentioned In This Episode

Christian Financial Advisors
Website

Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

Autotrader
Website

Kelley Blue Book
Website

NADA Guides
Website

Dave Ramsey
Website

Want to ask Bob or Mary Jo a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.
SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

[INTRODUCTION]
Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly program where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.
Mary Jo: This is Mary Jo Lyons.
Bob: Are you ready to learn the truth about money from a biblical perspective?
Mary Jo: Join us as we discuss what God’s word says about money and integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to the program and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.
[EPISODE]
Bob: Today we’re going to start with two scriptures from Proverbs. Proverbs 2:11, “Discretion will protect you and understanding will guard you.”
Mary Jo: Proverbs 3:13, “Blessed are those who find wisdom, those who gain understanding.”
Bob: So I really want you to think about something as you hear these scriptures. Think about this hard. So I’m going to come at you with a pretty good question on the today’s podcast. What investment do all of us make that consistently loses over 40-50% of its value on average every four years?
Mary Jo: Is it buying a new vehicle, maybe a car or truck?
Bob: I think you knew where I was going with that, Mary Jo, because that’s what we’re going to be talking about today. Car buying 101 where the investment consistently loses over 40-50% of its value on average every four years.
Mary Jo: Oh, we should talk to my husband about that, but we’ll get into that in a little bit later.
Bob: Now wait, I think you need to share something. Right before we got on today, what you were telling me.
Mary Jo: And I love him dearly and this isn’t, you know, trashing husband day, it’s not my intent, but I do make fun at his expense. He’s a good sport, but he changes his cars like his underwear, if that makes any sense. I’ve been married 36 years and I know we’ve probably had 36 cars. This is one of those topics “to do as we say not as we do”, but we’re learning from experience. That’s for sure.
Bob: Well, you know what Mary Jo, I have a feeling that a lot of our listeners are going to relate to this and then we have some that aren’t because I meet those that like to buy every year or two, and then I’ll have those that come in and it seems like, I’m like, “Go get a new car. You’ve had that same one for 15 years. I saw the hubcap coming off as you were coming up into the parking lot.”
Mary Jo: In all seriousness, one of the things in my previous life as a financial advisor, I worked with a firm and a lot of my clients were professors and you know, they are the millionaire next door. They have substantial assets stocked away, but you’d never know it because they’re driving a 10 year old Honda. And I think there’s a lesson there.
Bob: Yeah, no that’s true. Gotta admit, some of our wealthiest class have driven up in a 10 year old, beat up old truck. You know, and as we talk about today’s program, it seems like the automobile is one of the most, if not the most, expensive expenditures besides buying a home that all of us have to make every few years. And it’s absolutely got to be one of the worst investments there is, unless it’s one of those collectible classics. Again, just think about this, what investment would you want a make that loses over 50% of its value on average every four years? I mean, would you want to buy a mutual fund stock or a piece of real estate that’s guaranteed to lose 50% of its value in four or five years? I don’t think so.
Mary Jo: I don’t think so, either. It’s kind of interesting. Do we really look at a car or a vehicle as an investment? And you know, back in the day we used to drive for basic transportation needs, but in 2019, many cars that are just basic transportation are huge investments these days at the price of a car. We’re talking $50,000
Bob: Yesterday when we were talking about this, you remember I went online on auto trader and pulled up some of those nice trucks, like the Lariat Ford or you know, the F-350 King Ranch edition – $75-80,000. As this old country boy would say, “That’s not chicken feed, is it?”
Mary Jo: No, not at all. But you know, we do all need safe and reliable transportation. That’s a given, and that’s important and we want to make sure we’re safe and our loved ones are safe. We never want to underestimate that. But buying cars and trucks too often, from a financial perspective, can add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars in losses over time and possibly leave a giant hole in your future financial plan. So, we want to look at that and I think we can all agree, buying a car, it’s not a good investment. It’s really a bad investment, right? It’s kind of a sunk cost, if you will.
Bob: It really is. So we have to be careful about how much we’re putting into a vehicle, which we’re going to talk about later. But I’d like to mention, right now, that you know, you think about if you’re making a $500 payment on a vehicle and you’re not putting anything into your 401k, is that very wise? I mean, wouldn’t it be better to get a cheaper vehicle that you’re making $250 a month payment and put $250 away for your future? And I know we’re going to get into that later in the program, but that’s really where we’re going to be coming from today.
Mary Jo: Once we decide and we make this investment, we want it to survive and last for a good number of years so we don’t have to continually make this investment. We’re going to cover some tips and some wisdom on car buying.
Bob: Hopefully, we can minimize that negative impact that car buying has on our pocket book. So in today’s podcast, what we really want to do is emphasize wisdom. Utilize and use wisdom when it comes to buying a car.
Mary Jo: You know, Bob, I think our listeners may be wondering what two financial advisors know about buying cars. As I shared earlier, we’ve bought plenty of them so I know a thing or two. So that’s what we’re going to share and I think that’s appropriate for today’s conversation, don’t you Bob?
Bob: I do. And I know that you asked me to share my story about a car buying experience, and I shared it and you think it’s still a good idea to share that story?
Mary Jo: I do.
Bob: Okay. All right. Okay. I want to give away my age now. I’m 57, okay. But when I was about 21 or 22 years old – I love cars like Mike does by the way – and I really have had to take my emotion out of it because when I was really young going to Southwest Texas back then, now called Texas State University, I tried a little bit of becoming a car salesman and I did that for about a month to a month and a half. It was for a major dealership that was there that handles one of the major brands. Mary Jo, I was just amazed at this particular dealership. I’m not saying all dealerships are like this by any means. I believe there’s a lot of respectable dealerships. But back then, they were asking me to change numbers on credit applications. Telling me to tell the person this, when I knew that was wrong, about the vehicle and it really put a bad taste in my mouth. I quit. I was a Christian then and I said, I cannot do this in good conscious. I cannot do this and continue to work here. So that was my little short tidbit. But from that point forward, I really started looking into it. And is this going on across the industry? And it’s not going on across the entire industry, but a lot of it is, and I’m sad to say that. So, I really started digging in to what is it about buying a car and what things should we be aware of when buying a car? That make sense?
Mary Jo: Oh, it totally does, Bob. And you know, stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. And we always talk about the slimy used car salesman, and I guess they get to be that stereotype for just what you’re describing – to speak in a slimy car salesman. And again, you’re absolutely right. There are some great ones out there, but there are a few bad apples in every bunch. I had a story that I wanted to share and it’s kind of, if you’re a salesman of any kind, this is what not to do. I’m a professional, I earn a living and I wanted to go out and buy a car for myself and one that I wanted to drive and I didn’t want my husband to interfere with that process. So I did the shopping, I knew what I wanted, and I went to a dealer. And when I walked on the lot, I have credit in my own name, a very good credit score. I had the money and I was prepared to purchase the car and make my decision that day because I had already done my research. And he goes, “Well honey, when you’re ready to make a decision, bring your husband back and then we can test drive the car.”
Bob: Oh no, you’re kidding me. That was not a good experience.
Mary Jo: That was not a good experience. And I said, well sonny, I’ll do just that. And I walk next door and bought a car from his competitor.
Bob: Oh wow. Wow. And so you were already, you were ready to go.
Mary Jo: I was. So anyway, that’s my car buying story.
Bob: All right, let’s get into just a few of the tidbits and we got so many to share today. The first thing is, tip number one is it’s very important to be knowledgeable about the car that you want before ever walking on that car lot. You know, cars costs so much money and it just leaves so much room to overpay and make mistakes because of the amount of investment. Like I say, I don’t like to think of it as an investment because it loses value as soon as you drive off the lot. But they cost so much money and people will, they’ll get that car buying urge. They’ll go just walk on the lot. They’ll drive it. They’ll get that new car smell without ever doing their research. And before you know it, they’re signing papers to buy a car. Has that ever happened to Mike?
Mary Jo: Oh yes. I guess our listeners know, my husband’s name is Mike
Bob: I told our listeners, just so you know, Mary Jo and I, we do the program from remote locations. I do mine from my office here in new Braunfels and she does hers there in Rockport. And I’m looking at Mary Jo and I’m thinking any minute now, the door’s gonna open and Mike’s gonna come in.
Mary Jo: He is. He’s a car guy and he has a bit of OCD. He spends his free time surfing the web and looking at car pictures and blogs, and he can tell you pretty much everything about every make and model. And he’s even more interested in detailing them and keeping them clean. And you should see our garage and the neighbors laugh. There’s nobody that washes their car more than Mike does. All this is a good thing because we spend so much for them, and we do want to take care of them. But Bob, I wanted to go back to our tips and I think one of them is, you know, the dealers, they do have a right to make money. They are not a nonprofit and they’re in the business to make money, but they don’t just have to make it all from us. Do they?
Bob: No, they don’t. They sure don’t. And I’m like you, I agree. There’s nothing wrong with profit. We live in America. I believe in free enterprise. I own my own business, so that’s okay. And they should expect to make a profit and you should expect them to make a profit and they’re going to on your trade-in. They’re gonna offer you less money they can sell it for. So really do your research, as an example. Know what your trade in is worth before you ever go to the dealer.
Mary Jo: Oh, that’s great advice. One of the things we need to remember is this is the finance guy kind of at the end of the deal. The dealership makes a lot of their money when they convince you to buy those extra options and those ad-ons like the extended warranty and not that extended warranties are a bad thing. For some of us, they may be a great salvation and they may make total sense, but they’re always pushing the paint sealant and fabric protectant, things along that line. We don’t always need those things and they sound like they’re inexpensive because they’re spreading them over your payments in the life of the car, but they’re really just profit makers for the dealer.
Bob: The other thing is an example, especially if you have a large family. You know, Mary Jo, we had three girls that were all at home at the same time. Now, they’re all out of the nest now, but we drove Suburbans for the longest time and those were expensive vehicles to buy. You go in and you want to buy a suburban today or that type of vehicle, you can easily pay $50,000. It may be even $70,000 for that new vehicle, but they will sometimes convince you you can afford this vehicle because we’re going to extend those payments. You get in the finance department and they can extend it five, I’ve heard even six years now.
Mary Jo: Yeah, now they’re going six years.
Bob: It’s crazy. Realize that the longer you finance the car for, the more you’re actually paying for it. Now, I have had people come back and say, yeah, but what about the 0% interest rate? Well, if you will buy that car six months old to a year old, even if you were to pay 3% or 5% to a credit union, you’re going to come out better than the 0% interest rate for the new car.
Mary Jo: I’ve already taken the depreciation here. You mentioned that earlier, and that is so true. One of the things we want to keep top of mind is cars depreciate immediately after you purchase them. And then they continually depreciate every day of every month, month after month after month, until they are eventually worthless
Bob: Cars. They are. They’re like a money pit because whether we buy a new one or used one, things wear out and eventually they have to be replaced. I just had to replace the battery on mine and that’s the second time now and it’s three years old. I just noticed yesterday and I look in the floor of the garage, I’m going oh no, what is that? And I’m seeing something red dripping out and it’s the coolant. It’s the coolant. So I put some more coolant in there, so I’m going to be going to the mechanic.
Mary Jo: Did you have that smell when you walked in the garage. Coolant that’s leaking has a very distinct smell.
Bob: No, I didn’t, but I was just really fortunate that I was cleaning out my garage and I pulled the car out and I saw this red spot. I wasn’t sure, and then I opened up the hood and I saw that. But you know what a lot of people might think? It’s time to get a new car cause my vehicle does have close to 70,000 miles on it. But you know what? It’s going to be a lot cheaper to fix that than go buy a new one. So.
Mary Jo: Very true.
Bob: You know another tip is when you’re buying a car, you’re taking money from an appreciating asset or you’re making monthly payments that could be appreciating and compounding instead of depreciating.
Mary Jo: That money could be working for you.
Bob: Oh yeah. So you gotta look at what’s the cost of taking this amount of money out of my savings or this monthly payment I’m going to make. What could that grow to if I could get a lower monthly payment by buying maybe a car that’s two years old or or three years old with 40,000 miles on it? Cause cars today can go 200,000 miles easily – if you change the oil and you do the normal routine maintenance.
Mary Jo: That’s the key. And you know, Bob, there’s also no consistency in prices when buying a car. And I think that’s something for our listeners to kind of keep in mind. One dealership will sell you the same make and model car at one price and in the next town over, another dealership will have it at another price. And many times that can be a difference of thousands of dollars. So it definitely plays to shop around and it really all just depends on how vulnerable you are as the buyer. So Bob, I also know that you have some car buying tips that you want to share with our listeners that can help them save anywhere from $2,000 to $15,000 on the purchase of a new or used car. So why don’t you run through those for us.
Bob: So Mary Jo, this comes from a lot of experience and I have actually helped our clients buy cars and have seen this kind of savings, $2,000 to $15,000 many times over. If you’re not driving and you happen to be at home and you’re listening to our podcast, you want to get a pencil ready and write some of these down.
Mary Jo: Yeah, Bob, before you start, one of the things I was just going to share is the reason that we thought that this topic was going to be so helpful is that that savings, even if it’s just two to $3,000 we want you to be able to use that savings to help future financial goals. If we can help our listeners save everywhere, that’s money they can put to other goals, and that’s our objective.
Bob: That’s right. They could put that money to their own pocket instead of the dealership’s pocket and to grow it for their family, maybe for college education or for retirement. So the first thing that you want to do is decide on that car. Decide on your budget and what you can afford to do. That’s going to be cash or a monthly payment. If you can pay cash, that’s better cause I don’t want to emphasize that Anyone go get in consumer debt and a car is like consumer debt. So decide that before ever setting foot on a dealership. Next, once you think about what kind of car you want to get, go to a few dealerships and test drive some of the cars you think you’d like to have. But do not, and I mean do not, buy that vehicle that you really like, and your emotions can get caught into that, for at least three to five weeks until you’ve done this.
Bob: Okay. So once you decide on the exact make, model, color, and features you want. Example, I’m a Ford Explorer kind of guy. I’ve had two of them now. So once you decide on it, let’s say, and I know this is 2019 but let’s say you’re looking for a two year old white Ford Explorer XLT with sunroof and maybe a trailer towing package. Allow competition in the free markets to work for you. Now how do you do that? Well you go online and what I would do, and this is what I’ve done for clients as well as myself. So, I want to buy a Ford Explorer, so I go on the internet and I find at least ten Ford dealerships within a 200-300 mile radius of New Braunfels. Now, take Austin and San Antonio. There’s that many in our area, so I don’t usually have to reach all the way out to Houston, but Mary Jo, I have reached all the way out to Houston and all the way up to Dallas.
Mary Jo: Sure.
Bob: Then what I do is I find those dealerships, and every one of them, if you go to their website, they’ll have a contact us on their website. You build your email exactly what you want to say. Say, I’m looking for this with these features, this color, this amount of miles, and this is what I’m trading in. You put that email together, the same email and you just go to about 10 of them and you send that email out to 10 of them, all ten. Now, this is after you’ve chosen the vehicle that you want. All 10 of those dealerships, pretty much, I mean it’s usually 10 out of 10 or 9 out of 10, will send you back and say, “We’ve got exactly what you’re looking for and this is what we’ll sell the car for. And based on what you told us about your trade, this is what we’ll give you for your trade.” But Mary Jo, what’s so interesting is as you get these emails back, you’ll see thousands of dollars of difference in those emails. So you take all 10 of those emails. You have to wait, sometimes, five or six days, but usually they’ll get right back to you. You take all 10 of those emails, and you take the lowest priced one that you got and then you send that price to all the other nine dealerships that you sent out. Guess what? For some reason, they’re going to meet that price. And what will happen as you do this two or three times over a two or three week period, you’ll know when you’ve gotten to that price point because they will actually get where they are within about two or $300 of each other. It gets very, very competitive after a two to three week period. Then, you can take that best price and that email, print that thing out and you could take that right down to your local dealership, five blocks down the road from you or five miles down the road from you, show it to them, and guess what they’ll do?
Mary Jo: They’re going to meet that price.
Bob: They will, and they’ll come back and say, “Are you crazy?” And you can look and you can show them those emails. And I have over and over and over just saved thousands and thousands of dollars for myself and for my clients who have allowed me to do this for them because this is one of the services that I offer if you are a client.
Mary Jo: And they know you’re shopping and figure if they can’t beat you, they’re going to join you.
Bob: And you’ve got to take emotions out of it. You cannot let emotions get involved. I’ve gone and done this with my mom and my mama has cried coming out of that dealership, “I want that car.” I said, “Mom, have patience.” And within a couple of weeks we’re coming off of that price $6,000 or $7,000, and I say, “See. Is a couple of weeks worth $6,000 or $7,000 to you?”
Mary Jo: It’s a lot of savings. You know, Bob, we’ve been talking a lot about shopping for the price of the car, but if you’re financing, you also want to be shopping around for the best interest rate. Sometimes the dealer has the lowest rate, but sometimes they don’t. So don’t just think about your payment. You should only purchase what you can actually afford, but you also have to think about the rate that you’re paying. A car salesman, they’re gonna stretch that car payment out so that it’s affordable and you’re kind of like, “Wow, I can afford that.” But you’re talking about a six year loan a lot of times and in about six years you’re going to need to be replacing that car. So, it’s kind of putting you into this cycle of perpetual car payments when you stretch it out that long. The cost of the overall car, the biggest component of that is the interest rate on the loan. So, you need to shop for that and be armed with that information before you walk on the lot. One of the things that we’ve been fortunate enough to do is that 0% interest rate and take advantage of that, but we know we’ve got the money in the bank to pay it off. It’s taken us a long time to get to the ability to do that.
Bob: Mary Jo, one of the things I like to do is shop online for a car and look at the different credit unions. Many times, my own local credit union gives me a really good rate and that does arm you very well when you go into the dealership.
Mary Jo: I definitely think that they are a great resource for cars, especially. Kind of their niche, if you will. And we want to also talk about don’t add those small unnecessary extras at the end of your purchase because they can certainly add up. When you’re about to purchase a car, you’ll be encouraged to buy any of these small options that you don’t need – tire replacement, paint protection, extended warranty. So, be very thoughtful about that and don’t get sold. Just be very cautious.
Bob: Be careful that you’re not just thinking about the little extra bit of monthly cost because that can add up. “Well, it’s only a dollar extra a month or $5 or $10 extra a month.” I wouldn’t worry about the dollar extra a month cause that’ll only be $50 or $60, but what if it was $10?
Mary Jo: But over 60 payments…
Bob: That’s $600 plus interest.
Mary Jo: That’s right.
Bob: Yeah. Cause that finance manager’s goal is to offer you these in a way that’s gonna really make it seem affordable. They may seem inexpensive now, but they’ll add up over time.
Mary Jo: And keep in mind that they are incentivized to sell those to you. The manufacturers of the paint sealant, they’re paying them back a spiff or an incentive, a commission, if you will, to sell that to you.
Bob: One of the things that when you’re buying a vehicle, do not tell them if you’re financing or paying with cash.
Mary Jo: Oh, that’s a good point.
Bob: Because many times they may come in lower on the price if they think you’re going to finance it. And it’s not that I’m trying to deceive anybody, I’m just saying, don’t disclose everything up front.
Mary Jo: That’s true. It’s a negotiating ploy that they come back with all the time. We talked earlier about making sure you know how much your trade in is worth and if you have a trade in to make sure you’ve done your research about the price of the new car, the price of the financing, but also about the price of your trade in. Kelly Blue Book, it’s a great resource for doing this. While you may not get the exact amount that Kelly Blue Book claims you’ll get. It’s a good estimate of what you can expect from the dealer.
Bob: The thing today with all the internet sites is not just Kelly Blue Book. You can use NADA, you can just like go to Auto Trader and see what that same vehicle’s selling for that you’re going to trade in. You can zero down to that year and even the color. So, you can get a really good idea. What is the dealership going to sell this car for and what should I be getting for my trade? So, when it comes to trade in, think about does it have below average miles? Is it in demand? Is the paint in good shape? All these things really matter – scratches, dings, that kind of thing. That’s why every time we go somewhere to eat now, we park in the corner of the parking lot. I bet Mike does that, doesn’t he?
Mary Jo: He absolutely does. He has, I call it parking lot commitment fear. He drives around and around to get the farther spot.
Bob: Most people drive around around and get the closest spot. So, just really cleaned that up before you do the trade in. Now, you heard what I was saying about you can describe your car to trade in. A lot of the dealerships, they’ll want to see pictures of your car. So, clean it up really good and take good detailed pictures, and I’ve emailed those pictures to them because I really like to do all my shopping from the comfort of my home without having to go into the dealership. I will tell you, Mary Jo, the last several cars I’ve bought, the only time I went to that dealership was to test drive, figure out what car I wanted, and the next time I walked in was to sign the paperwork.
Mary Jo: That’s exactly right, Bob. You were talking about the condition of your trade in ,and I just want to kind of emphasize that. I think that it’s really true. If the car looks like a wreck on the inside, then the dealer’s gonna assume it hasn’t been well maintained and they’re definitely going to offer you less. So it is worth taking some time to clean up that car before you go onto the dealer’s lot with it.
Bob: And know things like when the new model years coming out because chances are they’re going to be making deals on the old inventory when that happens.
Mary Jo: Good point. There are certain times of the month and the year that are better for car shopping. If they’re getting to the end of the month and they haven’t met their quota, know what the trends are with that dealer and in your area before you go onto the lot.
Bob: Mary Jo, I’ve made many of the final price negotiation even after I’ve gone out to all 10 of the dealerships, always hit them on the 30th because they had that incentive and I like to go about six or seven o’clock in the afternoon – if they close at nine – because I’m telling you, it is amazing what they will do at that last hour of the last day of the month.
Mary Jo: You know, that sales manager walks out there and says, I’m giving an extra incentive to anybody who can get me five deals by the end of the night because the dealership gets extra motivation and incentive if they reach a certain quota, and that’s big money to them.
Bob: And don’t be afraid to negotiate.
Mary Jo: Right. So even if you get a discount such as a car manufacturer discount, you should still negotiate. A lot of people hesitate and they don’t want to be ‘that guy’ and they take advantage of those friends and family discounts and that can mean something, but there’s still room to haggle. You don’t want to leave money on the table. And I think car sales are meant to be negotiated, and we want to encourage you to get the best price that you can so that you can do more with your own money. We’ve talked a lot about the price of the car, but another area to think about is the cost of the insurance. There can be big differences in how much it’s going to cost you to ensure that. Does it have extra sized tires? Big bumpers? Replacement parts that are heavily stolen? Those are things that’ll Jack up your insurance costs, so you want to be aware of that. You want to consider all the costs before you make that decision to buy. Wouldn’t you agree?
Bob: I would. I would definitely agree. Let’s sum all this up. We’ve talked a lot about buying cars. We’ve talked about the financial aspect of it, but really we want you to understand that when you’re buying that car, you’ve gotta be conscientious of that car payment or that amount of cash that you’re putting in. We’ve kind of started the program off like this, and are you on track to meet your financial goals? Before you buy that car, you think about that, right?
Mary Jo: Absolutely. We’ve talked about that new car feeling, but we want to just encourage you to check those emotions when buying a car. Keep those in check and understand it is just a tool and a vehicle. We’ve found that the kind of car you drive says little about your financial situation. Oftentimes, those in the fanciest cars and the biggest houses have the largest debt load. Those that live modestly tend to have a higher net worth and the peace of mind that savings and an emergency fund can provide. Be thinking about all those things before you shop for a car. What do you really need the most? Sometimes, it’s building that savings up.
Bob: I mean, if that car payment is not allowing you to save for the future, it’s not allowing you the ability to buy life insurance and disability insurance, those are some things that we all need and we need to be doing. We need to be saving for the future. If you’re younger and you’re a breadwinner and you’ve got a lot of children at home, those odds of disability are high, and you need some life insurance. Could that payment be so high that it’s not allowing you to buy those risk protection things that you need as well as saving for the future and a family?
Mary Jo: That’s so true, Bob. You know, and a lot of our listeners are fans of Dave Ramsey and he has a couple of sayings that are very wise and one of them is, “We spend money we don’t have on stuff we don’t need to impress people we don’t like.”
Bob: I love the way he always starts off his program, “Cash is King and the paid off mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as a status symbol of choice.” That’s always the way he says it. So when it comes to buying a car, there are a lot of considerations and it’s not just the cost of the car and the payments, it’s the lost opportunity of investing for the future because the money you sink into a vehicle is money you’re not saving for your financial future. So, we want to encourage you to think about this as you are thinking about purchasing that next car. You know, Mary Jo, in the summertime, those new models come out. So be careful of that and make sure that you’re putting away for your future and that you’re putting away for cash reserves before you just go buy another new car.
[CONCLUSION]
Bob: You are listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us next week as we explore what God’s word says about money and don’t forget, you can sign up for our free newsletter at ciswealth.com or give us a call at 877-71-TRUTH. That’s (877) 718-7884. To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts regarding the truth about money, be sure to subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives at christianfinancialpodcast.com for free. If there are any specific topics you would like to hear more about, we’d love to hear from you.
Mary Jo: That’s all for now. Until next week.
[DISCLOSURES]
Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors, Inc DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.
32 min
May 14, 2019 34 – Interview with Robert Netzly of Inspire Investing
On this episode, Bob and Mary Jo interview special guest and friend, Robert Netzly, the founder and CEO of Inspire Investing. Inspire focuses on biblically responsible investing with a goal to “inspire transformation for God’s glory throughout the world by building low cost, biblically aligned investments that create meaningful change in the lives of people across the globe”.
31 min
May 14, 2019 34 – Interview with Robert Netzly of Inspire Investing
Click below to listen to Episode 34 – Interview with Robert Netzly of Inspire Investing
Interview with Robert Netzly of Inspire Investing

Learn about Inspire, a Christian, biblically responsible ETF company.

More episodes >>

You have heard Mary Jo and Bob talk many times about Biblically Responsible Investment Strategies on the podcast. On this episode, they interview special guest and friend, Robert Netzly, the founder and CEO of Inspire Investing. Robert and Bob have known each other for quite a few years now, and Robert even flew from California to visit Christian Financial Advisors for a few days.
Robert started his own wealth management company Inspire Investing, a Christian, Biblically Responsible ETF company. Inspire focuses on biblically responsible investing with a goal to “inspire transformation for God’s glory throughout the world by building low cost, biblically aligned investments that create meaningful change in the lives of people across the globe”.

GUESTS: Robert Netzly
HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®
* Robert Netzly is not affiliated with Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors
Mentioned In This Episode

Christian Financial Advisors
Website

Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

Robert Netzly
LinkedinX

Inspire Investing
Website

Inspire Insight
Website

Inspire ETFs
Website

BRI: For God’s Glory And Your Joy

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.
SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

[INTRODUCTION]
Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.
Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.
Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?
Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.
[EPISODE]
Mary Jo:
Matthew 25:21, “His master replied well done good and faithful servant. You have been faithful with a few things. I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness.
Bob:
Today, I’m really excited about an interview we’re going to be doing. And you’ve heard Mary Jo and I talk many times here on Christian Financial Perspectives about biblically responsible investing. Today, we have a very special guest, good friend, good Christian brother of mine, Robert Netzly with Inspire Investing. So let me give you a little background on this first. Robert and I have known each other for quite a few years now. And Robert even flew from California to visit us two years back. It’s more than a few years now. It’s been many years back to visit Christian Financial Advisors for a few days, and even was a guest in our home during that time before starting his own wealth management company Inspire Investing, a Christian biblically responsible ETF company.
Bob:
So Robert, welcome to our podcast.
Robert:
Thank you. Thanks for having me here.
Bob:
So Robert, tell our listeners a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are today with Inspire Investing.
Robert:
Yeah, well my background is at Wells Fargo product client services down in Carmel, California, and was just kind of happy as a clam and then stumbled across this whole biblically responsible investing concept by accident. The Lord convicted my heart on that, and just really quickly couldn’t do my job anymore, really. And then I came across you and your team. The Lord led me to you guys, and you were such an instrument in helping me wrap my arms around this whole biblically responsible investing movement, and one thing led to the other. And here we are eight or nine years later. And to meet this really growing demand in the BR movement, we’ve launched a number of ETFs and index based investment products that are all designed for BRI parameters. So, that’s the short version.
Bob:
And you’re going to hear us speak a lot to BRI. That’s an acronym for biblically responsible investing for those of you that don’t know. So I just want to mention that.
Mary Jo:
As well as ETFs, which is exchange traded funds, which are a little bit different than your traditional mutual funds. So we’ll talk a little bit more about that as well. So Robert, who is Inspire Investing and what do they do, and what motivated you to start the company Inspire Investing?
Robert:
We’re an asset management firm, and we manage money. All of it is according to biblically responsible investment guidelines for families and institutions and wealth managers globally, really. Our focus really is identifying the most inspiring, biblically aligned companies in the world to invest in. Companies that are making a positive impact with their business activities. They are blessing their communities, their workforce, the world in general, and really operating in line with biblical values. It doesn’t mean that they’re “Christian companies”. There really isn’t such a thing, but companies that are operating in light of biblical values, and that includes avoiding bad actor companies that may be involved in, say, manufacturing abortion drugs or distributing adult entertainment content, or other issues like that. So, we avoid the bad. And then we really look for those best companies, companies that are creating clean water solutions, companies that are working on cures and treatments to cancer and other diseases, and really operating with best of the best in their industry and put those together into low cost index-based investments, wrap them up in a variety of different delivery vehicles, whether it’s an exchange traded fund or it’s a separately managed accounts or other types of investments. And that’s what we do.
Mary Jo:
I love the way you use that phrase, bad actors. You also touched on index funds. So, what is an index based approach and what are the advantages to that?
Robert:
Well, this kind of goes back to the growth of the investment world towards a lower fee approach over the past 20 years. And so an index based approach is where you’re seeking not necessarily to outperform the market with your investments, but really trying to track the performance of a broad base of stocks in a certain industry or a certain market capitalization segment and a certain size of a company. So for example, many people are familiar with the Dow Jones, right? So that’s a few dozen, large, US companies. So that index tracks the performance of those stocks and gives you a kind of a barometer for the US stock market. The other would be the S&P 500, which is basically the 500 largest companies in the United States. Now, there’s also international and emerging markets. There’s different sectors you can index, but the general idea is that you have a number, usually several hundred, if not thousands, of individual stocks that all make up this index. So, what we’ve done is we’ve taken those indexes, like the S&P 500, like the Russell 2000 on a small cap basis, international and whatnot. And we have filtered those through, what we call, our Inspire Impact score methodology. And that’s just our fancy name for how we identify those biblically aligned, positive, inspiring companies. And we invest in the highest Inspire Impact Scoring companies in those broad indexes, again, excluding the bad actors and even excluding those that maybe they’re not involved in anything particularly heinous, but their scores are very low. And so, we focus on those higher scoring companies. And then we typically equally weight them, give each company an equal representation in the portfolio, and manage that ongoing. So it gives the investor a very efficient, lower cost way to access the return profile of those various indexes. And you can use those indexes in all different sorts of ways. You can just buy it and hold it, or you can actively trade it through an ETF or something like that. So, you can overlay different strategies, but the basic building block is this low cost, index based, biblically responsible fund.
Bob:
You and I both know what biblically responsible investing is. And I know we’ve already defined what that is, but a question I’m always getting, and you probably get it too, is if I’m going to be biblically responsible and you’re building these ETFs, how many stocks are you having to throw out, and are you truly giving me a diversified ETF if you’re having to be biblically responsible? Can you speak into that?
Robert:
Yeah, absolutely. And that was really one of the big questions I wrestled through and not just me, but many other advisors who’ve gone through this BRI transition in their practices and their professional life is so, if I’m going to limit “myself” to only investing in companies that are aligned with biblical values, who is left over, right? I mean, that’s just a big question. Is there anybody leftover? Are there any companies in the world that are doing anything that align with biblical values. If you watch the news, you’ve got to wonder sometimes, but thank God in his grace, that there are plenty. In fact, the overwhelming majority of publicly traded companies make the cut even on the most stringent, diligent, biblical screens. So to give you an example, out of the Russell 3000, which is basically just about every company in the United States, so it’s large companies, mid-sized companies, small companies, and publicly traded, so 3000 of them. Close to 90% of those pass all those screens. So, there’s really no shortage of quality companies to invest in. You just have to know how to find them and then have the skill and methodologies to put those together into valuable portfolios.
Bob:
When I hear you say that, then it really kind of takes out the excuse of not being biblically responsible for a Christian.
Robert:
I think so. The interesting thing about BRI is we kind of throw that word around, movement. The word movement is usually kind of thrown around lightly in a lot of different ways, but with the BRI movement, it really is a movement, and it’s a movement of God in the hearts and minds of his people, and what I’ve seen personally in the past 10 years, and also anecdotally, as I’ve met with thousands of investors and financial advisors across the world over the past several years, is the Lord is really waking people up, his people up, to the fact that it’s important to him that his people manage his money, put into his values, for his glory, and for their joy. And for decades, we’ve been blind. Like we just haven’t thought about it, and it’s not a guilt or shame issue. For me personally, it never even crossed my mind to give a second thought to what the companies in my portfolio are doing from a biblical morality perspective. And then lo and behold, I look into my portfolio one day about nine years ago, and here I am the president of our local pro-life pregnancy center, and I own three stocks of companies that are manufacturing, abortion drugs. The Holy Spirit gripped my heart in this, and it just doesn’t make any sense. And so, praise God that more and more, thousands and millions, of Christians are coming awake to that idea that, wow, I can find out what’s in my portfolio, and it’s not a good picture and I can clean that up. And like you said, there’s really no excuse these days. There are so many options and so many tools and technology, the road is paved. Folks like yourself, Bob, who have plowed and done the hard work for decades now, making that a reality, is where we’re at today. So yeah, there’s really no excuse. And we just welcome everybody to get involved.
Bob:
Well, I must say, I remember in the beginning there was like one equity fund. Today, there’s so many choices.
Mary Jo:
You’ve done a great job. I just love your explanation about biblically responsible investing. And one question I have, so what difference does it make to investors whether they follow this approach or not?
Robert:
Well, I mean, there’s a few different ways you can answer that question, and I’ll just answer it personally. The number one issue for me is I just have a burning desire to honor my Lord with everything that he’s given me. And I know that I’m not the only Christian that feels that way. That is our burning desire as believers and followers of our Lord. And when I realized what was going on in my personal portfolio, and then as an advisor what I was recommending my clients to buy – abortion drug companies, pornography companies, human rights violators, and all the way down the list, it was convicting. I just couldn’t see myself standing before my Lord one day and being proud like, Hey Lord, aren’t you proud? Look all this money I made for investing in abortion drugs. So to me, the number one thing that I get out of it is by the grace of God and even as flawed and imperfect as I continually am, this is another way that he’s showing me that I can just bring him glory, you know? And so, there’s satisfaction that. Number two in the same vein, I know that as we, as believers, invest according to biblical values, it is sending a loud, a very loud, message to corporate America and to Wall Street that people actually care about biblical values. Again, for decades, the liberal left has done a very good job at engaging corporations in the boardroom for shareholder activism and other means to really tilt them to support things like LGBT activism, for instance, and abortion for that matter. But they have not heard in the boardroom from Christians. We’ve kind of done the boycott thing and other means of having our voice heard, which are important, but oftentimes at these big companies, it’s not as effective. Many companies, on any given day, have a number of people protesting out on their front doorstep, and they’re just deaf to that. But a few years ago, we were able to send an email into the investor relations department of a company, which prompted a discussion about their support of abortion related philanthropies, which within a matter of a couple of months, it was open to stopping their donations to this particular abortion related philanthropy. And we could have boycotted them for years and never got the time of day, but that’s another area where as investors, we can make an impact. And it doesn’t matter if you have a few bucks or a few million bucks or a few billion bucks, you’re a shareholder and your voice can be heard.
Bob:
You shared with us that one story. I know you have many stories. Do you have just one or two others that you could share with our listening audience so they will know what a difference it’s making?
Robert:
Yeah, sure. I’ll share a one success story and maybe one cautionary tale if that’s okay. A couple years ago, I’d bet a year and a half ago I guess it was, we had been investors in this company, warehouse shopping company that so many people love, especially those with many teenage boys in the house. You can get a lot of food for a lot of money. And so, we’ve been investing in this company and then through our routine screening process, we noticed that they had begun a couple summers ago, again, donating money to a few different gay pride parades in different cities throughout the country. And obviously that is of concern to our investors and shows an activist stance, purposed company who takes a proactive stance and actually support and sponsor really something that has nothing to do with their business and taking a side on social issue with biblical morality at stake. So I reached out to their investor relations department, left them a message, and I kid you not, within two hours, I had a phone call back from the chief financial officer. I just left the message on the general voice box and let them know who I was. I represent Christian investors and we had this issue and we wanted to discuss it with them. He was actually getting on a plane. He’s calling me from the airport on a cell phone, getting ready to get on a plane, but it was that important to him to call me back. And so that was awesome. I had a wonderful conversation with him, had subsequent conversations and emails over several weeks with this gentleman as we explained that we’re not trying to have this company come out and paint crosses on the front of all their buildings, but also it’s a problem for us if they are going to take sides in the marriage debate, right. And I don’t think they really want to be painted as taking sides in that debate. And he agreed and he says, no, it’s not our intention. We really don’t want to, again, go outside of our business and kind of cast our vote one way or the other here. We just want to stay neutral. We want to just do a good business, serve our customers well, and be a good company. And so within, again, about a month and a half, he wrote me back. Their executive team had met, and they agreed not to give money to gay pride parades or other politically and socially charged philanthropies or organizations in the future. So, we celebrated that success. We kept this company in our portfolio, and that just shows the power of being a shareholder. You actually have a voice inside this company. Now, another company, I’ll mention a cautionary tale, is out here in California. Last fall, I was at the annual shareholder meeting for a big utility company that runs essentially all the utilities for the state of California, which is a massive undertaking. If you’re watching the news, you’ll notice that we’ve had massive wildfires the past couple of years, completely disastrous, some of the most deadly and destructive wildfires in the history of our state. And it just so happens that a number of those were sparked by faulty equipment from this company, and they were on the hook for those damages. As a result of this whole whirlwind, their stock had declined 70% as of this last meeting I’m referencing. They had eliminated their shareholder dividend. They previously were paying a very generous dividend, which was a lot of retirees and others were depending on that as a large source of their income, they eliminated that dividend because they didn’t have the money. They were on the verge of bankruptcy. Meanwhile, in the past year or so, a colleague of ours had been interacting with this company because they’ve also been a very large supporter of Planned Parenthood over the years and very vocal in their support of the abortion industry and all of that, which of course is a problem again with our BRI perspective. So, we took that opportunity. We were invited to speak at the annual shareholder meeting, and my question was, okay, the stock has fallen 70%. You’ve eliminated a dividend because you’re on the verge of bankruptcy, and you can’t afford to pay your shareholders. Can you give us your word that you’re also going to stop donations to Planned Parenthood? I mean, if you can’t pay your shareholders, that would make sense, right? And hello, it’s kind of like a no brainer. However, the executive sitting on stage looked at me and said we are very committed to supporting our communities, including Planned Parenthood and supporting blah, blah, blah, and just complete defiance, right? And it was in complete defiance of all sound logic, all sound judiciary obligation to their shareholders, even. And just to see that blindness, and we know we don’t battle this flesh and blood, we battle against the spiritual forces of darkness in this world. And it was just, in that moment, it was so clear to me, really just compassionately seeing these people. They don’t know what they do. And they have been enslaved really by the enemy and to do his will. So there was that. And several months later, I read a blog article about this. They now have declared bankruptcy and really just went down in flames, this big hullabaloo over here in California. So that’s just a cautionary tale that’s based on not just their donation to Planned Parenthood. It’s kind of a telltale sign, but there was such political cronyism going on there. And that diehard commitment to Planned Parenthood was not just because they care about women. I mean, let’s be honest, it’s because the California political system and all of this incestuous relationship between these nonprofits and the government and the utility company is bad business. It’s business ethics violations, and then not spending the money they should have spent to keep their community safe with their power lines and everything has sparked these fires. It’s just this whole soup of somewhat subjective issues. Some people would say, well, how do you measure that? But this culture of bad ethics, right, unbiblical values, resulted in their bankruptcy. So as investors, if you’re looking out for companies that have that pattern and you’re avoiding investments in those companies that are kind of slipshod in those ways, you avoid getting burned in cases like this company. So, those are two examples.
Mary Jo:
You talked about fiduciary. That’s something Bob and I talk about quite often on the show and as fiduciaries, that’s part of our responsibility to our clients is to be a fiduciary when it comes to managing those portfolios. So, how much more of a fiduciary can you get than being biblically responsible? I think that was an awesome story and really supports that notion. Don’t you think, Bob?
Bob:
Yeah. And as I hear that story, Mary Jo, it reminds me of the scripture John 10:10, “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I have come that they may have life and have it to the fullest.” And it just goes to show when we are in darkness the things that can happen because we allow the thief to come to destroy, steal, and kill. And that’s what happened with that company, it sounds like. Let’s go in another direction now. An exciting thing happened a couple of years ago, and that’s when Inspire got to go on Wall Street and ring the bell for opening up their ETFs. So can you tell us your experience about that and what that was like? You invited me to that and like a dummy, I didn’t go.
Robert:
Next time, right? It was quite the event. It certainly wasn’t something that was on my bucket list, but it should have been, in retrospect. The New York Stock Exchange is such a historic building and iconic piece of American history and in the investment world obviously has a lot of meaning. And so, when we launched our ETFs, they’re trading on the New York Stock Exchange. As part of that, we get to ring the closing bell and up on the stage and about 4 million people every day watch the closing bell ringing on CNBC and other outlets and whatnot. They put our company name all over the screen. I mean everywhere, all over the place. And so that was cool, but the best thing about that whole event was when we got there with our team and then a small number of guests, financial advisors that we were able to invite and bring along with us to celebrate, they gave us a tour of the building and there’s just a whole lot of history there in that building in New York. And we had a reception in what they call the big board room, which used to be like the exclusive club area for back in the day. And there’s just, again, lots of history, there’s a space there that’s from the czar of Russia in the 1800’s and this clock that they use to open and close the bond market with doesn’t actually tell time. It’s special symbols, and it’s hundreds of years old. It’s just remarkable. I got to preach a sermon, kinda, in the big boardroom to everybody and all the NYSE staff are there and they’re listening. And then we go out to the trading floor and our guests are down on the trading floor and we’re up on the podium, and there’s just this excitement and clapping and we ring the bell, and it was just this time to worship the Lord. And they have pictures of our teams raising their hand and worshipping the Lord. And when you get off the podium, you’re going down these stairs kind of behind the wall there, and the hallway and the stairwell are all marked up. So, you get to sign your names. Ring the bell, you get to sign your name on the wall, so there’s signatures everywhere. So I tell my team, hey, don’t waste this opportunity. Let’s write something meaningful. Our names aren’t that important, but let’s put something that actually is. Right now on that wall, there’s a number of scriptures that are written in the wall right behind that podium when you’re watching the bell ring. There’s scripture written on the wall there. And some of the comments from the New York Stock Exchange staff afterward were really inspiring because they were kind of in awe that the event staff and everybody who does this every day, twice a day for huge companies all over the world, they said we just love watching your group. Like everybody was here, not just on time, but early. Everybody showed up. That usually never happens. And usually, we have to kind of get them excited so it looks like it’s exciting. You guys were like cheering before the cameras are even turned on. And like, this is just great. And I was able to tell them, well, you know why? Because we’re not here celebrating money. Like we’re not here celebrating our success. We’re not here celebrating the launch of a company or an IPO. We’re here giving glory to our Lord because this is so obviously from him and for him and to him, and we’re celebrating our God. And so anyway, for the past two years, we’ve had this really cool witness to the New York Stock Exchange staff and affiliated people when it’s just another opportunity that we as believers in the BRI movement can shine light into the hearts, into the very heart of the world’s economic system. The New York Stock Exchange, inside on the podium, on the trading floor, and that’s for God’s glory.
Mary Jo:
You’re giving me goosebumps, and to take it in even a different direction. I know you’ve written a book and you’re pretty excited about it. It’s been out for awhile now. Bob and I both enjoyed it, and it’s titled “Biblically Responsible Investing for God’s Glory and Your Joy”. So why don’t you talk to us a little bit about that and share with our listeners how they can find the book?
Robert:
Yeah, thank you. So my mom says it helps her sleep. So if you have a sleeping problem, I’m not a doctor, but you can pick it up and hopefully it helps you too. No. It’s a book on the biblically responsible investing and really just, it’s a compilation about the movement. There’s not a whole lot of dry “how to” investment jargon. It’s really from our perspective, how we’ve seen God move in the financial industry and a lot of these similar stories that I’ve been sharing here today. We’ve got more stories in the book and really just an inspiring picture of what God is doing around the globe, truly around the globe, to just exalt his name through the financial world and how his people invest their money for his glory. And there is some instruction on how to get started with biblically responsible investing, some basic principles, if the Lord is working in your heart there, and it’s not very long, it’s a short book. Most people can read it in about two hours. And so my heart with that, putting that out, is really just to get the story out because still more people need to know that this is even a thing, right, that we should be looking at and thinking about what’s in our investment portfolios. It matters to God and it’s an opportunity to glorify him and what’s happening around the globe and these stories need to get told. So anyway, that’s why I put that in the book. I hope and pray that it’s an inspiration to people as they read it and just encourages them to not only get themselves involved and join the movement, but help spread the word and get others involved in the BRI movement as well.
Mary Jo:
There was one particular quote that I liked a lot, and that was called “The end doesn’t justify the means in God’s economy”. I thought that said it all.
Bob:
So Robert, as you’re talking about biblically responsible investing. Then, there’s the book, and we’ve been hearing about the ETFs. How could a person know if their investments are biblically responsible?
Robert:
That’s a good question. talk to a Christian advisor who specializes in biblically responsible investing and just show them what you own. Here’s a statement from my account at XYZ firm. Those advisors who, again, who have experience and know what they’re doing in the BRI world, which is not a lot of Christian advisors, I’ll say. It’s a quickly growing number, but finding those folks and they can run reports and really educate you on what you own. And again, it’s not a guilt and shame thing. It’s just an educational thing. Here’s what’s going on in your portfolio. And then they can take that next step in showing you how to clean that up and align it with biblical values and how that will continue to help you work towards your financial goals and all of those things. If you’re more of a do-it-yourselfer, we’ve actually released a technology platform that’s free to the public, inspireinsight.com, and it’s still in beta. So, there’s some bugs, and if you go on there, please let us know if you find something that’s not working. Again, it’s a beta version, but the core functionality is working. And so you go to inspireinsight.com. You can type a ticker symbol in of a mutual fund or an ETF or a stock that you own, and it’ll tell you all the good stuff, all the bad stuff, all the ugly stuff that those companies that you own are involved in from a values perspective, and it will also give you some performance information and we’re continuing to develop that. In a couple of months, we’ll have a much anticipated version with some great enhancements, but I just welcome everybody to go to inspireinsight.com, check it out, or even better talk to an advisor who really specializes in BRI to get educated.
Mary Jo:
And that brings us to another question that was on our minds. We’ve got so many Christian advisors out there that call themselves Christian financial advisors. So why would anybody choose not to invest in a BRI portfolio if they position themselves as a Christian advisor? And there’s so many available BRI investment options now to choose from.
Robert:
Right? Good question. And one of the answers is that not every Christian advisor has access to all those options. Every firm has a little bit of a different profile. Some firms are very limited in their platform as far as what their advisors can offer. And even some of the biggest firms in the nation have almost nothing available. In some cases, they have nothing available that is biblically responsible. Even some of the largest Christian firms in the nation, names that you would all probably recognize if we mention them on the air, don’t have robust or even existent BRI options. And so those advisors, they just don’t have the ability to offer those things. For those advisors in the independent channel who maybe have their own firm or operate on a platform that is more open architecture, usually it boils down to education. Again, these advisors just because we’re Christians and we’re financial advisors, doesn’t mean that we are really experienced or knowledgeable about Christian investing. Unfortunately, I was one of those. I’m first to raise my hand. I was sitting there all day long down at Carmel advising my wealthy clients to invest in abortion drugs all day long. I was totally oblivious. It wasn’t that I didn’t care. I just was oblivious. And so there’s a lot of education that needs to happen. And listen, those investors out there that are hearing this, you can be a huge lesson to your advisors and other people in your life if you will bring this up to them, because usually they’ve not heard about it or have not thought about it. Or, if they have heard about it, they just haven’t really looked into it. They might think none of my clients care about this and not just Christians, but secular advisors, too. You can be a witness to those folks. Other than that, it’s the Lord that works on our hearts and I’m not here to play the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit did his work in convicting me on this issue, and he’s going to do his work in convicting others on that issue as he sees fit. And as more advisors and more investors hear about it, that’s exactly what’s happening. Praise God that there are a plethora of quality, BRI investments to choose from, and you just need to know where to find them.
Bob:
Robert, this is coming to the conclusion. I just have one last thing I want to say here. And you’ve really touched a lot of people with what you’ve been doing, and I am just so excited to have had you on our podcast today. And what’s it like to be involved in this arena? Robert, you’re probably like me. Maybe you thought you were going to be a pastor at one point, right? What’s it like to go every day to work knowing that you’re glorifying God with your investing?
Robert:
It’s really, really awesome, and it’s not something, you’re right, it’s not something that I had thought. I mean, my plan was to be a fourth grade teacher, which is also a very great option for any fourth grade teachers out there. And you can glorify God as a fourth grade teacher. God has other plans. We make our plans, but God directs our steps, and here I am in the financial world, but it’s just so awesome when you can come into work and work with a team like we have here at Inspire who every single one of them – the man and woman on our staff – are so completely sold out to the glory of God. And they oftentimes have made great personal sacrifices, especially when we were a young company to come on board and to do this thing together and really be faithful in what the Lord is calling us to do, despite all odds.
Robert:
I mean, looking back, we’ve been very successful by the grace of God. When we were starting, everybody thought we were going to fail, like everybody in the media and all the financial gurus and everybody else. There’s hundreds of articles in some of the largest magazines and newspapers of the world mocking us saying that nobody cares about biblical values anymore. Nobody’s gonna invest in these funds, and we’ve grown faster than most funds ever have. Again, five years of God’s movement that he’s doing, but to come to work with those kinds of people that have been through the fire, we rejoice. We just serve the Lord. It’s just awesome. We pray together. We cry together. We laugh together, and it’s truly a blessing.
Mary Jo:
Well, on that note, we want to thank you for joining us today, Robert. That’s all the time we have for today’s show. And if you want to learn more about BRI, we encourage you to get a copy of biblically responsible investing by Robert Netzly.
Robert:
Thanks so much.
[DISCLOSURES]
Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.
31 min
May 07, 2019 33 – Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth Parts 6 and 7
In this week’s show, Bob and Mary Jo wrap up our series called “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth”. This was originally designed as a Bible Study written by Bob Barber. The series is a deep dive into what God’s word has to say about money.
31 min
May 07, 2019 33 – Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth Parts 6 and 7
Click below to listen to Episode 33 – Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth Parts 6 and 7
Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth Parts 6 and 7

Listen to the conclusion of Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth Parts 6 and 7.

More episodes >>

In this week’s show, Bob and Mary Jo wrap up our series called “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth”. This was originally designed as a Bible Study written by Bob Barber. The series is a deep dive into what God’s word has to say about money.
This entire series includes 7 viewpoints, of which the final 2 are covered on this episode.
Viewpoint #1
The Difference between a Biblical and Secular Worldview
Viewpoint #2
The Difference Between the Roles of the Owner (God) and the Manager (us)
and how our role is to be good stewards of the resources God has entrusted to us.
Viewpoint #3
The Biblical Worldview of Working and Retirement
Viewpoint #4
Secular and Biblical Counsel
Viewpoint #5
Money and Wealth
and how to accumulate wealth with biblical principles as well as invest it with values
Viewpoint #6
Giving and Blessings
Viewpoint #7
Leaving an Inheritance and a Legacy

If you would like to get the Bible study guide called “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth”, you can go to Amazon or call our office at 877-718-7884.

HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®
Mentioned In This Episode

Christian Financial Advisors
Website

Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

National Christian Foundation
WebsiteFacebook
Family.Money. Book

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.
SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

[INTRODUCTION]
Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.
Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.
Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?
Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.
[EPISODE]
Mary Jo:
In this week’s show, we wrap up our series called “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth”. This was originally designed as a Bible study and written by my co-host, Bob Barber. The series is a deep dive into what God’s word has to say about money. So we thought this would be a perfect topic to cover here on Christian Financial Perspectives. If you’d like to get the Bible study guide called “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth”, you can go to Amazon to order it. This series includes seven viewpoints. So Bob, let’s review the first viewpoints that we covered in our earlier sessions. The first of which also serves as a foundation.
Bob:
The first viewpoint, we really covered the difference between a biblical and secular worldview, which is the foundation for the entire Bible study of “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth”. And then in viewpoint number two, we looked at the difference between the roles of the owner, which is God, and the manager, which is us. And our role is to be good stewards of those resources God has entrusted to us. Viewpoint number three, we looked at the biblical worldview of working and retirement. Most people don’t realize it. The Bible has work written in the scriptures over 550 times, but only one time, and I mean just one time, for retirement, and it’s not at all the way we think of retirement here in America, but it has to do with mentoring those in the workforce that are younger. Then in the last podcast we covered viewpoints four and five, which viewpoint four is secular and biblical counsel and what is the difference in that? And using scriptural guidelines to look for somebody that’s going to help you in anything, whether it be financial planning or a CPA or an insurance advisor, anyone at all, that’s going to give you counsel and advice. Viewpoint number four is really a great study to go through in this Bible study. And then viewpoint number five last week was money and wealth and how to accumulate wealth with biblical principles, as well as how to invest with biblical principles.
Mary Jo:
If you missed the earlier episodes of “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth”, where we’ve gone over viewpoints 1 through 5, you can easily listen to them christianfinancialpodcast.com. And we’d also invite you to get an actual copy of the Bible study for yourself and those you love. It could totally change the way you think about money and wealth. In the last two biblical viewpoints for money and wealth that we’re going to cover today, we’re going to go over “Giving and Blessings” in number 6 and then number 7, “Leaving an Inheritance and a Legacy”.
Bob:
But before we get into these last two viewpoints, we’d like to set up some overarching principles for the entire Bible study of “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth”. The first one is is that all financial decisions are spiritual decisions, especially for a Christian, and need to be prayed about.
Mary Jo:
Our self-worth should not be associated with our net worth.
Bob:
We are managers, not owners.
Mary Jo:
And we are to manage it to glorify the owner.
Bob:
We are a conduit of wealth. Therefore it’s for flowing through us, not to stay in us and become like the Dead Sea where nothing grows.
Mary Jo:
And finally, wealth does not belong to us, but to God.
Bob:
So let’s get into today’s viewpoint number 6, “Giving and Blessings”. Mary Jo, you’ve got a good scripture to start us off with.
Mary Jo:
Acts 20:35, “In everything I showed you that by working hard in this manner, you must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus that he himself said, it is more blessed to give than to receive.”
Bob:
So that’s the big part right there, that last part. It’s more blessed to give than receive. Giving is listed over 1400 times in the Bible, and where it says that in Acts 20:35 that is more blessed to give than receive, this is certainly contrary to today’s consumer culture and the belief that it’s better to get than give. Mary Jo, why do you think it says it’s more blessed to give than receive?
Mary Jo:
Because when we’re giving it shows the heart of God, and it also helps release the chains of selfishness that we have at times. And we always want to hold on so tight to our stuff. Of course, some of us are more selfish than others, but we have to look at Jesus. Jesus was a giver. When he walked among us, sharing his teachings through the parables, there are numerous stories of his generous nature and acts of giving, and who doesn’t want to live and act like Jesus?
Bob:
I certainly want to live and act like Jesus did, Mary Jo, but I don’t think I want to die like he died because that was a very painful death. I’m glad he did that in our place.
Mary Jo:
I’m right there with you, Bob. I’m just thankful that he died for our sins and you’re right. I hope I don’t have to repeat that.
Bob:
So as we look at another scripture, let’s look at one on giving and actually how to give, which comes to us from Matthew 25:31-40. So here’s what it says, “When the son of man comes in glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him and he will separate them from one another as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, come you who are blessed of my father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” Okay, so these next two scriptures I want to emphasize, “For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you invited me in. I was naked and you clothed me. I was sick and you visited me. I was in prison and you came to me.” Okay, verse 37, “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you or thirsty and give you something to drink? And when did we see you a stranger and invite you in or naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and come to you?’ And the King will answer to him, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did to one of these brothers of mine, even the least of them, you did it for me.'”
Mary Jo:
What a perfect scripture, Bob. It points to the very fact that when we are helping others, we are finding and exercising the very heart of God and Jesus, the biggest giver of all time.
Bob:
So there’s a question here that all of us need to think about. Ponder on this question. What kind of eternal impact would you like to make with the assets and resources God has blessed you with?
Mary Jo:
So let’s look at these next two passages and see what the potential benefits of giving could be. In Proverbs 3:9-10, “Honor the Lord from your wealth and from the first of all your produce, so your barns will be filled with plenty and your vats will overflow with new wine.”
Bob:
Malachai 3:10-11, “Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse that there may be food in my house.” I’m going to say these next four words. It’s the only place we know of in scripture where it says this, “‘Test me in this,’ says the Lord almighty, ‘and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. I will prevent pests from devouring your crops and vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe,’ Says the Lord almighty.” So as we look at these two scriptures, they’re really speaking to us and take those scriptures and apply them to today. Maybe we don’t have crops. Maybe we don’t have fruit trees, but there’s a principle here about tithing and giving and what can happen through that. And even saying you can test God in that because it’s the only place I know of in scripture that says that.
Mary Jo:
I didn’t realize that, Bob. That’s really interesting. Do you think the disciples ever tested him? Because he asked a lot of them and some of it was very new. I would imagine there were some doubters among them.
Bob:
Oh, absolutely. I think there’s a lot of doubters today when it comes to this, Mary Jo, because if you look at the church itself, tithing is actually only a small part of the congregation that is actually tithing. So, it’s really a step of faith, but this speaks into that how that step of faith can actually result in protection, and as you can see, prevent pass from devouring your crops.
Mary Jo:
To prevent those locust infestations. There is nothing like the joy that is felt when we give from our hearts. Giving doesn’t always have to be in the form of money, however. We can give our time and talents and other resources that God has gifted us with. And when you have an opportunity to sit quietly and reflect on today’s message, we would encourage you to give some thoughts about the many gifts that God has blessed you with. Make a list of at least 10 resources God has blessed you with that can help others while bringing glory to God.
Bob:
I love that, Mary Jo. That is a great exercise to do. I want to repeat that, make a list of at least 10 resources God has blessed you with that could help others while bringing glory to God. Mary Jo, when we start to write down the things that are blessings, it sure does give you a different perspective in life.
Mary Jo:
It just makes them so much more real.
Bob:
It does. And there’s a positivity that comes with that when we have so much negative going on around the world. So I want to look at giving right now, and this next verse is a little bit different perspective because while giving is so important and is a great thing to do, actually the Bible gives us a warning about giving with a wrong motive. So let’s look at Matthew 6:1-4 if you’ll read that for us, Mary Jo.
Mary Jo:
“Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them. Otherwise, you have no reward with your father who is in heaven. So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets so that they may be honored by men. Truly, I say to you, they have their reward in full, but when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing so that your giving will be in secret and your father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.”
Bob:
It’s giving us a warning about giving, and what is that warning?
Mary Jo:
Well, I think all giving is good. However, we would caution you to think about how you give, if it’s done in a public way that brings the attention to the giver rather than the gift and the cause, then what is the gift really about? Is it about giving from the heart and true generosity, or is it a publicity stunt to draw to the giver? I’m thinking that it isn’t what God really had in mind. What do you think?
Bob:
I think that’s exactly right. I agree with you that when we’re giving it should be done with a right heart that we’re giving, we’re not giving to get. We’re giving to give. Make sense?
Mary Jo:
Right. And I think in this day and age with social media there are so many celebrities out there that give so publicly. It’s part of their branding. Again, I’m not sure that it’s done within the right intentions. I’m not in anyone’s heart, so I don’t want to second guess them, but when it is done so publicly to me, it’s a PR stunt, and it isn’t a real true gift, if that makes sense.
Bob:
It does. But of course we do want to say that it’s still wonderful that people are giving. We just want it to be done with the right motive. So we’re going to come into a little bit different thing about giving now, too, that maybe you’ve never thought about because maybe some of you are listening and you’re like, if you look at my budget and paying for the kids and college and the tithe that I’m giving, I just don’t have anything left, but most people don’t really think about what I’m going to mention. So I’m going to say think differently about your giving today. Here’s a quote. Did you know that 90% of giving today is only from what most people had in cash in their bank account? Yet, most of us have 20% or less of our assets there, but 10% of our giving today is from assets other than cash. Yet, this is where 80% of our resources are.
Mary Jo:
So many people have more than just cash. There are interesting ways, creative ways, that they can use these to help fund their gifts. And to name just a few of these non-cash assets, these are things like real estate, investment properties, raw land that’s undeveloped, stocks and bonds and these are stocks and bonds that are held in certificate form, retirement plans, collectibles like art, coins, and even guns, classic cars, an interest in a business. How many people do you know that have a car sitting in a garage covered under a tarp that they’re not driving, and it’s really just taking up space.
Bob:
Maybe just some old antiques or some art, like you said, collectibles like art. I mean, that can be worth a lot and it’s really not doing anything. And you could take that and turn that into what I call living water.
Mary Jo:
Right. And so many of our seniors, we have these things and they’re meaningful to us. I just put myself in that bucket of seniors. I’m not sure what that says, but our kids in the next generation, they may not even want those things. Using them as your current gifting strategies, there might be something to that that would be beneficial.
Bob:
When we mention the retirement plans, that does speak a lot to those that are above 70.5 and have a required distribution or what we call an RMD. And you can give that RMD directly to 501c3 charitable organizations without declaring that as income. And it makes so much sense to go directly from the retirement plan to the charity versus taking money out of the retirement plan and then giving cash to the charity.
Mary Jo:
Absolutely, Bob. Great reminder.
Bob:
So there’s also four different ways we can give today. First is the traditional of give it outright. Examples include cash or highly appreciated assets like a stock instead of cash. Next would be give it later. Examples include a percentage of an estate plan. Like maybe in your will you put your church or some favorite ministries as a percentage of your estate plan or listing a nonprofit as the beneficiary of a retirement plan, like an IRA, 401k, 403b or annuity after you and your spouse are gone. This is a really great example of giving it later, and it doesn’t hurt at all right now.
Mary Jo:
And you can give the income from an asset like rental property, a bank CD, or stock dividend, but keep the asset for yourself and just give the income. You can give an asset like real estate or business or a stock, but keep the income generated for your lifetime. Examples of this include a charitable gift annuity or charitable remainder trust. And if you have questions on those, Bob and I can help walk you through those and all the various options that are available to you.
Bob:
There really is a ripple effect of giving. Giving multiplies when it flows from God, through us, to others. But when we don’t give, it stops the ripple of influence of giving. Giving generously not only helps you, it teaches others, as well as the following generations to be generous givers. God gives. We receive. We give a portion of it away. Others receive. They give, and the ripple effect of giving continues.
Mary Jo:
Now, we’re going to jump into viewpoint number seven, “wisely leaving an inheritance and creating a legacy”. First, let’s look to scripture for some insight. Bob, I know you had a couple of favorites.
Bob:
Yes I do. And I’m quoting this one all the time. Proverbs 20:21, “An inheritance gained quickly at the beginning will not be blessed in the end,” and Proverbs 13:22, “A good person leaves an inheritance for their children’s children, but a sinner’s wealth is stored up for the righteous.” Mary Jo, there are so many great scriptures that support today’s topic. Did you have a couple you’d like to share also?
Mary Jo:
I sure do. 1 Chronicles 28:8, “Be careful to follow all the commands of the Lord your God, that you may possess this good land and pass it on as an inheritance to your descendants forever.” And then from Ecclesiastes 7:11, “Wisdom, like an inheritance, is a good thing and benefits those who see the sun.”
Bob:
Oh, we’re going to talk about that one later, because wisdom, if you pass an inheritance without wisdom, watch out. You know what? Inheritance appears in the scriptures over 200 times, and it’s not always in the context of material assets, but many times it’s referred to as the values that are being passed down from one generation to another, and Matthew 6:19-21, there’s a warning, “Do not store up treasures here on earth where moths eat them and rust destroys them and where thieves break in and steal, but store up your treasures in heaven, where moths and rust cannot destroy and thieves do not break in and steal. Wherever your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will be also.”
Mary Jo:
So Bob, what are three things that you think most parents would like their children and grandchildren to inherit that are not associated with money, wealth, or anything that can rust or burn? Listeners, think about what these might be for your family. For my family, they are creating a life of service to those in need, passing down a love for God and the benefits of living a Christian lifestyle, and caring for all those that are entrusted to my care as I would want to be cared for. I take seriously my responsibility of raising young children to become productive citizens and good stewards of their God-given resources and especially caring for our aging parents. That’s certainly something that I want to leave as a legacy, kind of a how to.
Bob:
I think those are really three wonderful things. Deuteronomy 5:6-9 says, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. These words, which I command you today, shall be on your heart.” Now, here it comes. “You shall teach them diligently to your sons and should talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. You shall write them on the doorpost of your house and on your gates.” What a great spiritual inheritance we want to pass. This scripture’s telling us onto the following generations where they see that God and his word is so tied into everything that you live and the way you talk and everything that you do that that’s passed on to those following generations.
Mary Jo:
Bob, I think that there are several goals of every Christian family when passing down an inheritance. I think a few of those should be wisdom first, then second godly principles, and then number three, that monetary inheritance will not enable bad behavior. We can’t always help that, but we can do a lot to prevent it.
Bob:
And I want people to really understand the order that you said that in. You notice you didn’t say the monetary inheritance first, but you said wisdom first and then godly principles.
Mary Jo:
Well, it just goes to what you said about wisdom before money.
Bob:
Well, you’re setting your children up for a disaster if all you’re passing on is a monetary inheritance and they don’t have the wisdom and the Godly insight to be able to handle that inheritance with wisdom.
Mary Jo:
That’s right, Bob.
Bob:
Up until the last 50 years, what was interesting, Mary Jo, land was what was passed down most of the time as that inheritance from one generation to another, instead of just money. And you think about this, if only land was received and not sold, what were the heirs who inherited the land have to do with it if they wanted to get anything from it?
Mary Jo:
They’d have to work it.
Bob:
They would have to work it to make anything from that land. A few indications that your heirs are ready to inherit money and wealth are 1) Your heirs have proven that they know how to save money and are already on their own path to accumulating wealth wisely; 2) They’re debt-free or have very little debt, maybe possibly for a home.
Mary Jo:
And 3) They are wise consumers. They have conservative spending habits and track where their money is going; and 4) they show they are giving of their time, money, and resources to charitable causes.
Bob:
So one of the things that we like to talk about is with your kids and grandkids, when it comes to inheritance is doing a pre inheritance experience. One of the ways that many parents or grandparents see if their heirs are prepared for their financial inheritance is by doing that experience where they give a little bit and see how they handle it. This comes from the principles that we find in the parable of the talents.
Mary Jo:
It also makes me think about what we said earlier in today’s episode about Jesus testing us. This is a way for parents to test and see if the next generation is ready. A pre inheritance experience uses the principles from the parable of the talents from Matthew 25:14-25. This is done by giving your heirs a very small percentage of their inheritance in increments while you are still alive. Then coming back to them a few months later and seeing what they did with the money. If they were wise with a small portion of their inheritance, they may be prepared for a larger portion.
Bob:
This is really following a biblical guideline. As we see in Luke 16:10-11, “Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much.” So if you’ve not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches.
Mary Jo:
Remember, when we talk about legacy planning, it’s not just about leaving money as an inheritance. It’s also about creating a spiritual legacy and a family heritage.
Bob:
If you were fortunate enough to have known your grandparents, even great grandparents, can you name some of the things they loved to do besides just passing the money down to you? For me, I remember my grandparents, they loved riding horses and tending to the cattle. I remember with my grandfather, he loved going to rodeos and going to a baseball game. I remember sitting out on their large porch at night and visiting with family, friends, and neighbors. And this was fun, going to the big city for them, which was Luling or Lockhart or San Marcos, Texas every once in awhile. And well, when they would go to the “big city”, they never would go to Austin or San Antonio, but when they would go to the big city of Luling or Lockhart, which even today is less than 10,000 people.
Mary Jo:
I was going to say, I don’t ever think of Luling as being the big city.
Bob:
We would always have to go to Lockhart and get some good barbecue or to Luling to the City Market, or we’d have to go to Dairy Queen. They just made an event of that. And it was so funny. Those are the things I remember. I hope that all of us have those kinds of memories with our grandparents. I know you have some you want to share.
Mary Jo:
I do. And Bob, as you were mentioning Luling, did you ever go to the watermelon spitting contest? Isn’t that what they do in Luling?
Bob:
Oh, I’ve been to the watermelon thump many times.
Mary Jo:
My grandparents, they lived across the country, and they died when I was really young, so I don’t have a lot of memories of them, but I had a great uncle that was very much like a grandfather to me. And he lived in the Rio Grande Valley. He was responsible for designing a lot of the irrigation systems in the orchards back in the fifties. And he was this big, tall Texan. He wore a cowboy hat and smoked a pipe. And for me, when I was young, he was bigger than life. My aunt and he, they had this big dining room that held this big, massive round dining table that they had custom made for their ranch. And it was made of solid Oak and it fit 12 people around it with these big captain’s chairs. It was really huge. And in the middle, there was this lazy susan for passing food around. He loved breaking bread together, sharing a meal with his family. That was kind of one of my best memories of childhood. It could be that my brothers and sisters and I would just sit there and spin that lazy susan around and see if we could get the platters of food to fly off, but that might be another podcast.
Bob:
Mary Jo, I think people will have the impression that you and me truly are Texan.
Mary Jo:
Absolutely. To the core.
Bob:
These things are so important to write down because it’s so important that generations from now know so much more than just a monetary inheritance they may get. But what was the lifestyle of grandpa and great grandpa and great grandma? Mary Jo, you’ve heard me speak here. I go back many generations in Texas. I go all the way back to 1830, and I’m a sixth generation Texan. I can name all those generations, and I hope that my great-grandchildren or great-great-grandchildren can do the same thing. So the question is to those of you that are listening, would you like multiple generations from now to be able to answer the last question that we presented with ease about you? What were the things that you liked to do? How many generations can you trace back your family tree, and today with all the internet and with ancestry.com, it’s made it a lot easier and people are doing the DNA tests because they want to see where they come from and what is their inheritance.
Mary Jo:
My sister just did that and she shared with me our background, and we have French in there. We’re very European, which I didn’t know. So we always thought that we had a small fraction of Indian heritage, but that was not true in what she got back from ancestry.
Bob:
If you go to mine, all you’re going to find is Texan.
Mary Jo:
We just want our listeners to take a minute and go through this. Make a mental list of the three meaningful characteristics you would like to be remembered for 25 or 30 years after you’re gone. For example, for me, I’d like to be remembered for a few things. She was a giver, generous with her time and her talents, and she was a good and faithful steward of what God gifted her with. She was a devoted wife, daughter, and sister, always putting her family first. But I guess most importantly, I’d like to be remembered for my faith, my love for the Lord.
Bob:
Amen, and I say the same thing. I hope that is what I’m remembered for, that I was a Godly man. So how are you going to ensure these characteristics are remembered? Think about what would you like to have written on your gravestone.
Mary Jo:
In Psalm 78:5-7, what can you do to help the following generations in your family to follow God? And to dive much deeper into today’s topic, we highly suggest reading the book called “Family.Money.” And this was written by David Wills, Terry Parker, and Greg Sperry of the National Christian Foundation. So, it’s a great little book and we really encourage you to pick up a copy.
Bob:
In today’s episode, we have covered some really weighty topics that deserve pondering and some quiet time of reflection. And you can purchase a copy of the Bible study, “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth” on amazon.com.
[DISCLOSURES]
Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.
31 min
April 30, 2019 32 – Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth Parts 4 and 5
In this week’s show, Bob and Mary Jo continue along in the “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth” series. It was originally designed as a Bible Study written by Christian Financial Perspectives host, Bob Barber.
22 min
April 30, 201932 – Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth Parts 4 and 5
Click below to listen to Episode 32 – Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth Parts 4 and 5
Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth Parts 4 and 5

Learn about Viewpoints 4 and 5 of Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth.

More episodes >>

In this week’s show, Bob and Mary Jo continue along in the “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth” series. It was originally designed as a Bible Study written by Christian Financial Perspectives host, Bob Barber.
In this episode, Viewpoints 4 and 5 are covered, which include:
Secular and Biblical Counsel
Money and Wealth
The series is a deep dive into what God’s word has to say about money, so we thought this would be a perfect topic to cover here on Christian Financial Perspectives.

HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®
Mentioned In This Episode

Christian Financial Advisors
Website

Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.
SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

[INTRODUCTION]
Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.
Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.
Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?
Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.
[EPISODE]
Mary Jo:
In this week’s show, we will continue along in our series called “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth”. This was originally designed as a Bible study and written by my co-host, Bob Barber. The series is a deep dive into what God’s word has to say about money. We thought it would be the perfect topic to cover here on Christian Financial Perspectives. If you’d like to get a copy of the Bible study, the Bible study guide, called “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth”, you can go to Amazon to order it. This series includes seven viewpoints. Bob, let’s review the first three viewpoints that we covered in our earlier sessions. The first of which serves as the foundation for the series.
Bob:
Viewpoint number one is the difference between a biblical and secular worldview, which truly this is the foundation for the entire Bible study that I wrote on handling wealth from a biblical perspective. Without that foundation, it’s hard to take in all the other viewpoints because it all builds on that. And then viewpoint number two is the difference between the roles of the owner, which is God, and the manager, which is us, and how our role is to be good stewards of the resources God has entrusted to us. Viewpoint number three is the biblical worldview of working and retirement. Most people don’t realize that the Bible has over 550 scriptures when it talks about working, but only one, and I mean just one scripture, in the entire Bible that speaks of retirement. And it’s not at all in the way we think of retirement here in America, but it has to do with mentoring those in the workforce that are younger than us.
Mary Jo:
It’s just amazing. It’s just one time and work is referred to so many times. I just think the contrast is unreal. And if you missed the first of these two podcasts, you can easily listen to them christianfinancialpodcast.com. Today, we’re going to cover biblical viewpoints of secular and biblical counsel and money and wealth. And for our last podcast next week, we will cover the last two biblical viewpoints of money and wealth, and that is giving and blessings, inheritance, and legacy.
Bob:
Before we get into today’s viewpoints, there are some overarching principles for the entire Bible study. The first one is, is that all financial decisions are spiritual decisions.
Mary Jo:
Our self worth should not be associated with our net worth.
Bob:
We are managers, not owners.
Mary Jo:
We are to manage it to glorify the owner.
Bob:
We are a conduit of wealth. It is for flowing through us, not to stay in us.
Mary Jo:
Wealth does not belong to us, but to God.
Bob:
For today’s podcast, we’re going to cover viewpoint number four and five. Number four is advice and virtues, secular and biblical counsel. A great scripture that goes with this is one you’ve heard us talk about many times on Christian Financial Perspectives, Proverbs 15:22, “Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisors, they succeed.”
Mary Jo:
Years ago, there was a television commercial, and it was of a baby talking, a toddler, about how they could trade their own stocks online without the help or advice of a financial advisor. It was a cute commercial, but I think what it implied was rather foolish that investments were so easy that a toddler could do it. And in the scripture you just read, Proverbs 15:22, what does it say about seeking the advice of others? Plans fail for lack of counsel.
Bob:
According to the scripture, would you say it’s wise to seek the advice of others? By not seeking wise experience and godly counsel, think about what could happen. In Ecclesiastes 4:9-12, it gives us some more wisdom for a person who has a helper. The scripture says, “Two people are better than one, for they can help each other succeed. But if one person falls, the other can reach out and help. But someone who falls alone is in real trouble.”
Mary Jo:
Another great scripture, and this is from 1 Timothy 3:1-12 are virtues to look for in a deacon or elder in the church, but can be used as a guide for anyone who would seek counsel and advice from, and then they are great examples for all of us to live by and to look for in others from whom we may seek advice. And in fact, Bob, we referred to these in an earlier podcast where we talked about the virtues to look for in a financial advisor, didn’t we?
Bob:
We sure did, and we went through them. But for those that weren’t able to hear that program. And I think that was actually just our third podcast if you want to go back and listen to that. We really get into detail. But I am going to share with you these virtues found in 1 Timothy 3:1-12. And I want you to think about this. If you’re looking to get some counsel from someone in anything from financial to spiritual to family counsel, these are some great virtues that are from this scripture of 1 Timothy 3:1-12. First thing, do they have a good reputation in the community? Look for somebody that’s been around awhile and does have a good reputation. Have they been faithful to their spouse? Are they Well-Tempered? Are they self controlled? Are they respected in the community? Are they hospitable? Are they able to teach, and do they have a teacher’s heart? Are they not given to drunkenness? Are they not violent or quarrelsome, but have a gentle spirit? Are they not a lover of money? Do they manage their own household wealth? Are they a mature believer in the faith? Are they sincere and honest? Do they believe in absolute truths? Are they stable? Are they not a malicious talker? Are they known for being trustworthy in everything?
Mary Jo:
Bob, these characteristics can be applied to anyone from whom you’re seeking counsel. And you mentioned a few of those. Others that came to mind was that your CPA and your attorney should even fall into these categories. In the 2 Timothy 3:1-5 and in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, they also give us a list of types of people to avoid getting counsel and advice from. Why don’t you run through those for us?
Bob:
Yeah. I love these two lists. This first list we gave was people to look for getting counsel from. This next one ia avoid getting counsel advice from anybody with these vices. I don’t want to get counsel from somebody that has these virtues: people who are lovers of themselves; people that are lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive of others; have an ungrateful attitude; are unholy or not kind and loving; not forgiving of others; slanderous; has no self-control; mean-spirited, treacherous, harsh, conceited, and lovers of pleasure, rather than lovers of God. Those that are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, dishonest, greedy, heavy drinkers, and those that are slanderous. That’s a list. I want to stay away from anybody involved with that stuff.
Mary Jo:
Take a minute and reflect on your own life, your own situation. What happened the last time you failed to seek wise counsel? Did the outcome backfire on you? It usually does.
AD:
Experience God’s provision, “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth”, an introductory Bible study on stewardship that can be done individually or as a couple over just seven days or in a small group setting over seven weeks. This scripture extensive study explores God’s design for money, stewardship, and creating a legacy. In it, you will learn the difference between a biblical and secular worldview, the different roles of an owner and manager, God’s view of work and retirement, the difference between and biblical counsel, handling money and building wealth from a biblical perspective, the reasons for giving, and creating a legacy and inheritance for your heirs. This Bible study on stewardship could completely change your view of money and wealth and offers freedom from the control it could have over your life. To get your copy, call (877) 718-7884. Again, that’s (877) 718-7884. You can also go online to get your copy of “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth” on Amazon.
Mary Jo:
Next is viewpoint 5, “Money and Wealth”. In Deuteronomy 8:18, “But remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your ancestors as it is today.” Did you know that the word wealth appears in scripture approximately 100 times? It is referred to in both a positive as well as a cautious manner. Wealth can be a blessing as well as a curse if it’s not handled with wisdom and care.
Bob:
Mary Jo, I’ve seen a lot of this, especially when we had the oil boom down here in South Texas. New Braunfels, Texas is in between Austin and San Antonio. We’re about 45 minutes from what’s called the Eagle Ford Shale that was known nationwide when they had this massive oil boom about five or six years ago. And we saw a lot of sudden wealth syndrome. Actually, there’s an acronym for that. SWS and it’s a real deal. I mean, if you go look up sudden wealth syndrome, you’ll see it, and it can create a false sense of security and power when you get sudden wealth that many times can cause a rational person to make irrational decisions. An example of this is rejecting wise counsel from others experienced in making and handling wealth. Sudden wealth can disappear as quickly as it comes if it’s not handled correctly and with wisdom. This is why you and I are always saying it’s better to pass wisdom on than wealth and never wealth without wisdom. Many times, sudden wealth leaves a person worse off, as we’ve seen with many lottery winners, after a few years than before they received it. This is also very true with inheritance, which is probably the most common way to get sudden wealth. So many parents don’t realize that they could be hurting their children and grandchildren more than helping them by leaving a large monetary inheritance without wisdom.
Mary Jo:
Bob, I couldn’t agree with that more. You see this happen over and over with athletes that get signed to major league sports teams and a lucrative contract. They get caught up in all the glitz glam of sudden wealth only to get injured early, especially early in their career, and they end up penniless. Many seek counsel from the wrong places and get taken advantage of. We also see the same thing happen to lottery winners, as you mentioned. Many end up blowing their winnings in a very short timeframe.
Bob:
Let’s talk about the wise way to build or get wealth. And let’s look at the scriptural reference. We’ve shared this many times on the podcast as well, and it’s from Proverbs 13:11, “Wealth from get rich quick schemes quickly disappears, but wealth from hard work grows over time.” The wise way to build wealth, this scripture’s telling us, is by plain old hard work and saving over many years. I’m not saying here that some are not just blessed suddenly with it by an inheritance or a big oil and gas discovery on their land, but that’s far and few between, not many people get that blessing.
Mary Jo:
Bob, there are some foolish ways that people try to obtain wealth like playing the lottery, gambling, speculative investment schemes, stealing, just to name a few. They say, Oh, this won’t take much effort. I’ll just do this and I can get some quick money. But Bob, I know you have a quick exercise that illustrates godly virtues when it comes to building wealth. Why don’t you share it?
Bob:
Yeah, I do. Let’s assume that you own a business. I’m a business owner, and say I have three managers. The first manager never shows up early or offers to stay late to get any work done. Manager number two shows up on time, but only does what is required and nothing else. And manager number three shows up early every day, always stays late if needed, and even goes out of their way to help the business look good. Mary Jo, which one of these three managers would you want to give more responsibility to or possibly even a raise?
Mary Jo:
I think it’s kind of a no brainer. I’m thinking manager number three.
Bob:
I believe that too. We look at these three managers and we’re going to have a scripture here. We’ve read Proverbs 13:11, and now we’re going to come up on Luke 16:10-12. I want you to think about something as you’re hearing this. Do you think our heavenly father does the same thing? You picked manager number three. By seeing how we manage the small amounts of money that he’s given us before he allows us to manage more? And I think he does, and this scripture really speaks into that.
Mary Jo:
Luke 16:10-12 is a great scripture that speaks to the virtues of building wealth. “If you are faithful in little things, you will be thankful in large ones, but if you are dishonest in little things, you won’t be honest with greater responsibilities. And if you are untrustworthy about worldly wealth, who will trust you with the true riches of heaven, and if you are not faithful with other people’s things, why should you be trusted with things of your own?”
Bob:
You think about this scripture and when our heavenly father allows to receive, say, a large bonus or a large windfall of money, like an inheritance or a large oil and gas royalty check and we handle it responsibly by following biblical guidelines, do you think God may just allow us to receive even more to manage?
Mary Jo:
I would certainly hope so. I think I’ve seen it happen time and time again. Another aspect of money and wealth is investing it with biblical values. Let’s look at what Solomon said about investing in Ecclesiastes. 11:2, “Invest in seven ventures. Yes, in eight, for you do not know what disaster may come upon the land.”
Bob:
When we look at this scripture from Ecclesiastes, it’s very clear that Solomon himself, the wealthiest man that ever lived in the history of mankind, believed in diversification. If you look at 1 Kings 10:22-29 and again at 2 Chronicles 9:21-28, these scripture references talk about all the things that Solomon invested in. Without reading the entire scripture, I’m going to give you five or six of these. One was transportation and ships. Another was commodities and currency like gold and silver. A third one was actually weapons, that’s interesting. Fourth one was food production. Fifth one was livestock, horses, and cattle. Sixth one was building materials, trees, lumber, and stones. I know a seventh one was land. Based on biblical principles, is it wise to put everything in only one type of investment, say only real estate or only stocks or only bonds. Or if you’re just a business owner, just your own business and that’s all? I think from looking at this scripture, we can all agree from the scripture references, No, it’s not, and the wealthy don’t put all their eggs in one basket.
Mary Jo:
Now, let’s look at what we should or should not invest in using biblical guidelines. Ephesians 5:11 speaks into this by saying, “Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.” Then in the 2 Corinthians 6:17, the Bible says, “Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate, says the Lord and do not touch what is unclean. And I will welcome you.” And then in James chapter 4:17 it says, “Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.”
Bob:
Boy, Mary Jo. These scriptures are very clear. According to these scriptures, should Christians put money into any company, business, venture, or partnership that is involved or promotes agendas that are contrary to biblical principles and values? The answer to that is no.
Mary Jo:
What if the company is extremely profitable and is just involved a little in an agenda that violates biblical guidelines, like maybe an ethics violation or two? Maybe they are simply a distributor of pornographies. Is that so bad?
Bob:
Okay. You’re messing with me now.
Mary Jo:
What about a manufacturer that is known for using child labor? I don’t see what the harm is.
Bob:
You’re acting like the devil’s advocate here. Okay.
Mary Jo:
Just a little sarcasm.
Bob:
Yeah. I know. It’s been our experience that companies that generally fall over time, they violate one biblical principle and then another and then another. It generally starts with supporting an outside immoral agenda that we see. And then it finds its way into the inside of the company. It’s like that old slippery slope. Once you start down it, it’s hard to turn back until you hit bottom.
Mary Jo:
As we always do here on Christian Financial Perspectives, let’s go to God’s word for some additional guidance. In 1 Timothy 6:10, “For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil, and some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows.” I know, Bob, you love that one. You’ve used it so many times here on the show.
Bob:
Yeah. Mary Jo, that’s because it’s a warning to all of us of being careful of allowing greed to be the only motivator for investing in a company, regardless of what that company may be doing. We must be very careful of not doing that because when you allow greed and emotions to overtake investment decisions, good things do not happen.
Mary Jo:
That’s for sure. Learning to find contentment and doing the right thing is the right thing to do. And we’d like to end today’s podcast on “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth” with this scripture from Paul.
Bob:
I think this really speaks into not getting caught up in “it’s all about the money”. And this is what Paul said in Philippians 4:10-13, “But I rejoice in the Lord greatly that now at last you have revived your concern for me. Indeed, you were concerned before, but you lacked opportunity. Now that I speak from want, for I’ve learned to be content in whatever circumstances, I know how to get along with humble means. And I also know how to live in prosperity in any and every circumstance. I have learned the secret of being filled and going hungry, both of having abundance and suffering need. I can do all things through him who strengthens me.” It’s really speaking into the heart that we find contentment and not always needing more.
Mary Jo:
Thanks for joining us as we continue along in our series called “Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth”. Join us next week when we cover “Giving and Blessings” and “Inheritance and Legacy”, and that’s all for now.
[DISCLOSURES]
Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.
22 min
April 23, 2019 31 – Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth Parts 2 and 3
In Part 2 of the Biblical Viewpoints of Money and Wealth series, Bob and Mary Jo explore the “Roles and Responsibilities of Owners and Managers” and “The Biblical Worldview of Working and Retirement”. Here at Christian Financial Perspectives, we believe that all financial decisions are spiritual decisions because everything belongs to God, and we are managers of His money.
25 min

About Christian Financial Perspectives

From the publisher's feed

Biblical wisdom for financial decisions and goals. Conversations about managing money according to Christian principles, featuring expert insights on budgeting, investing, giving, and building wealth…