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  • 42 – Interview with Mitch Mitchell of Riskalyze
    Click below to listen to Episode 42 – Interview with Mitch Mitchell of Riskalyze®
    Interview with Mitch Mitchell of Riskalyze®

    Learn about the amazing risk investment portfolio platform, Riskalyze®.

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    We fear volatility when it comes to investing because we think it automatically means losses. However, volatility is a natural part of investing. The higher the volatility, then the higher the possible return, and the lower the volatility, the lower the return.

    It’s the same way with everything else in life. The faster you drive the more risk or volatility you can have, but many are willing to take that chance to arrive at their destination sooner.

    In this episode, we want to introduce you to a tool that will help you choose peace over worry when it comes to your investments called Riskalyze®. Riskalyze® is a financial technology company that provides software for analyzing investment risk and building and implementing investment portfolios. Bob and Mary Jo interview special guest, Mitch Mitchell, who is the Customer Success Manager for Riskalyze® to give a complete breakdown of this piece of technology, how it works, and how you can use it.

    Click the button below for your free portfolio risk analysis.

    GUESTS: Mitch Mitchell, Customer Success Team Manager at Riskalyze®

    HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®

    Mentioned In This Episode
    Christian Financial Advisors
    Website
    Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
    Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®
    Riskalyze®
    WebsiteFacebookTumblrLinkedin
    Mitch Mitchell
    Linkedin
    Daniel Kahneman – Behavioral Economics
    Website

    Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

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    EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

    [INTRO]

    BOB:

    Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly program where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

    MJ:

    This is Mary Jo Lyons.

    Bob:

    Are you ready to learn the truth about money from a biblical perspective?

    MJ:

    Join us as we discuss what God’s Word says about money and integrating your faith with your finances… If it’s your first time listening, welcome to the program. If you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

    [EPISODE]

    BOB:

    Matthew 6:26-27 “Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they are? Can any one of you by worrying can add a single hour to your life?”

    MJ: Today on Christian Financial Perspectives, we will be talking about taking the fear and worry out of investing.

    BOB:

    Many advisors will tell you that the key to investment success is managing risk and diversifying accordingly. You can learn more about diversification on episode 28 titled: Diversification – What it really means. I believe that managing your fears and worries is just as important. After all, no one likes losing sleep over worrying, especially about the markets.

    MJ:

    Bob, if it were only that easy, I don’t think it’s truly possible to take the fear out of investing, but we’re going to talk about managing risk today, both our own individual risk and the inherent risk of your portfolio, for example. I think when we look at risk and managing that according to our own personal situation, it can really help ease that fear, but I’m not if we’re ever going to take the fear completely out of investing. And rightfully so, it is risky!

    BOB:

    That’s the truth. So, while you’re listening to our podcast, we have a very special guest that will be speaking with us in just a few minutes – Mitch Mitchell from Riskalyze.

    Mary Jo, investors are much more likely to fear losses than they are to celebrate the gains in their portfolios. I always see that. You know, I notice this because we never seem to get the emails or phone calls as long as their investments are going up in their portfolios. When it goes down for a few days or a few weeks and they get that monthly statement, the phone rings and the emails start coming in. Why is that? Why do you think that it?

    MJ:

    Well, analogies are a great way to tell a simple story. I look at it like a bee sting, we may not have ever been stung ourselves, but we know it’s going to hurt so we avoid bees. A lot of us do the same thing with our investment portfolios, if that makes any sense.

    BOB:

    It seems like we fear volatility more than anything in our investment portfolios. We think that volatility means losses just because the portfolio goes up or down. People will call and say, “I’ve lost this much money.” I said, “Well, we didn’t sell.”

    MJ:

    That’s right. It’s not a loss until it’s on paper.

    BOB:

    Exactly. Volatility is a natural part of investing. I’ve noticed over the years that the higher the volatility, the higher the possible return, and the lower the volatility, the lower the return. If you don’t want volatility, then go to a more conservative investing, but with lower volatility come lower returns. It’s the same way with everything else in life. The faster you drive down the highway, the more risky it is, but we’re willing to take those risks to arrive at our destination sooner. We’re going to Colorado in a couple of weeks. If I drive 35 mph, it’s going to take me a long time to get there, but if I drive 75 mph, which is the speed limit by the way. I’m not going over the speed limit, but if I drive faster then I am going to get to the destination sooner, but there is a risk of driving faster.

    MJ:

    Bob, as you were talking, something came to my mind. It’s the analogy that I use with clients all the time. When you’re in the grocery store and you’re in one line, and you think that checker is going to be faster. Then, they get bogged down all with a price check or whatever so you jump over to the other line. The same thing happens. Another person forgot their wallet or whatever, and you’re even further behind than you were before you changed lines. The same thing happens when you’re driving. You’re at the stop light…I think this might be a guy thing, but that’s another podcast [laughs].

    BOB:

    I think it is. We’re going to get in the right lane, that’s right.

    MJ:

    You’re always trying to find that lane that’s the fastest, but the reality is that you’re all going to get there at the same time. You;re not going to improve your situation by switching from lane to lane. Oftentimes, you’re going to hurt your situation. The same is true with investing.

    As advisors, we talk a lot with our clients about understanding their risk tolerance. We ask a lot questions. We drill down to see how they’re going to react to volatile markets and what kind of returns they expect on their portfolio, how much downside they can stomach in a down market, what’s going to keep them up at night. That’s how we try to figure out what is the most appropriate investment for them.

    In the past, we’ve always done this using percentages. It’s made sense to us because we talk about the market in percentages. We talk about returns as percentages. It’s just kind of in our DNA and how we were trained. But, when it comes to our clients, I don’t think those percentages actually resonate so much. It was our best guess as to what percentage of stocks and what percentage of bonds was appropriate based on how they answered our questions. But, you know, I just don’t think when you tell a client that they should be in 60% stocks and 40% bonds that the majority of them actually know what that means.

    BOB:

    You’re right. We would also use generalizations for a long time that if you’re a young investor, you can handle more risk. If you’re retired, you didn’t have the time to make up for losses so you should be conservative, but this approach is truly outdated. It doesn’t consider that each investor’s personality is different, as well as their tolerance for risk. Every person is unique, they have their own emotional history, per se, and their own unique circumstances.

    MJ:

    Absolutely. In preparing for this week’s podcast, I’ve been thinking a lot about risk and how it impacts our listeners. I was recently reading an article and came upon this, “The more I intentionally choose peace instead of worry, the more I experience God’s blessings right now.”

    BOB:

    Say that one more time and really emphasize that.

    MJ:

    “The more I intentionally choose peace instead of worry, the more I experience God’s blessings right now.” I’m trying to get my husband to see that, but he’s not quite on board yet. He’s a worrier. [LAUGHS]

    BOB:

    [LAUGHS] We’re always talking about Mike. One of these days, we need to have MIke on the program because we’re always picking on him. Everyone is going, “Who is this Mike guy?” This Mike guy is a really nice guy, though, y’all.

    MJ:

    We’re going to have to start talking about Rachael once in awhile.

    BOB:

    Exactly. Yeah.

    MJ:

    So, when it comes to your investments, we know a lot of our listeners are prone to worry. How can you find peace with the right mix of investments – one that allows for growth but won’t keep you up at night?

    BOB:

    Today,we want to introduce you to a tool that will help you choose peace over worry when it comes to your investments, and it’s called Riskalyze. So remember that – Riskalyze – and today we have a special quest that will be joining us right now, Mitch Mitchell. Hey, that’s kind of a double name, isn’t it?

    MITCH:

    It is. Thanks for having me. It’s an honor to be here.

    BOB:

    Mitch is a Customer Service Manager with Riskalyze, which is a financial technology company that we use that provides software for analyzing investment risk and building and implementing investment portfolios.

    Welcome, Mitch!

    MITCH:

    Thank you so much for having me.

    MJ:

    So Mitch, I think your title is actually a customer success manager. We all want success in our lives, so what exactly does that mean?

    A customer success manager is specifically focused on the success of the customer. I recently went to Pulse, which is the largest customer success conference in the country. It’s put on my Gainsight.

    MJ:

    I’ve read about that

    MITCH:

    Yeah. It’s a customer success software. I changed my elevator pitch for Riskalyze while I was there because other customer success managers were there and they wanted to know what Riskalyze was. So, I said, well, it’s a customer success platform for financial advisors, and they all went, “oh, oh.” They all kind of understood that.

    Another way to put Riskalyze is that it is a risk alignment tool, which is another oversimplified way of saying it, which isn’t quite as interesting as the story behind it.

    MJ:

    Speaking of the story behind it, why don’t you share that with our listeners. Give us a little background on how Riskalyze was created.

    MITCH:

    Absolutely. So, the investing world is broken, and it’s a rather inflammatory way to start that story. The founders of Riskalyze realized this. The way they realized this is that it was broken for a number of reasons. One of which you have already discussed earlier, which is we sort of stereotype people based on their age. But, there are plenty of younger investors that watched their parents go through 2008, and they’re extremely conservative – very risk averse. There are other folks that are already retired and you think would need to be more conservative with their money, but they would much rather go to Vegas with their money. So, you can’t really stereotype people by their age.

    MJ:

    So true.

    BOB:

    Riskalyze really helps people. How does it help them with their investing.

    MITCH:

    So, Riskalyze was built around some nobel prize winning research called prospect theory, and it won the nobel prize back in 2002. That was by Daniel Kahneman. To grossly oversimplify his research, he basically walked around various cities around the world with a pocket full of ten dollar bills and a coin. He would stop people and ask, “Hey, I would like to bet my ten dollars afgainst your ten dollars. Let’s play a little game. We can play this game as many times as you want. We’ll flip this coin. Heads, you get my ten dollars. Tails, I get your ten dollars.”

    Nobody would take this bet. So he would up the ante. “Okay, how about my eleven dollars versus your ten,” and no one would take it. “Okay, how about my twelve dollars versus your ten? Bear in mind, we can play this over and over again.” No one would take it. What he was able to do by repeating this is he was able to empirically and objectively measure just how much people hate losing more than they love winning. Let me say that again. He was able to objectively and empirically measure just how much human beings hate losing more than they love winning. That is the kind of fear that drives people away from investing. They fear losing what they have more than they would love growing what they have.

    MJ:

    Yet, they go to Vegas all the time, and we know the house is always going to win.

    MITCH:

    Absolutely. That I can explain in a much more complex study of psychology, but I don’t think we have the time to go into that right now. The interesting thing about investments is that they are a little bit more long term. People don’t think of them as fun. They think of them as something that they have to do in order to succeed, but they also see the risk in the market. Now, what’s interesting about the coin toss analogy, if they continued to play over and over and over again, even with just a ten percent better side on Kahneman’s part. They would continue to grow and win. Even if they lost their ten dollars, they would earn back eleven. Then, they would lose ten and earn back eleven again. Thing is, people wouldn’t start taking the bet until he was putting up on average twenty five of his dollars against their own. He was able to empirically measure that human beings hate losing 2.5x more than they love winning.

    BOB:

    I think this is something that I would like to try with people. I’m going to go get myself a bunch of quarters.

    MITCH:

    [LAUGHS] Absolutely. It;s a fun experiment. He got a lot of his students to chip in on the experiment for the research as well. But I digress, the real problem here is that because people hate losing more than they love winning, they tend to make fear based, short term, bad decisions. Never underestimate the ability of human beings to sabotage their long term well being based on short term decisions that they make out of fear.

    So, one of the ways that we help people and advisors is that we help advisors objectively measure, empirically, in the same way Kahneman did, just how risk averse various investors really are. We put a score, given to that client based on a Riskalyze questionnaire, that e,piraclly measures just how much they are willing to risk losing in the short term in order to make sure that they can grow their investments in the long term.

    One piffy way that our founders have put that recently is “helping investors to invest wisely for the long term making good long term decisions one good, short term decision at a time.”

    BOB:

    That’s a good saying. That’s a really good saying. Okay, say that one more time.

    MITCH:

    helping investors to invest wisely for the long term making good long term decisions one good, short term decision at a time. I work for some very smart people [LAUGHS].

    So, what this questionnaire does is help to quantify the potential loss tolerance of the investors. I loved your speed limit analogy that you said earlier necause you are going to get to your destination a lot more quickly iof you are traveling at 75 mph. The risk of course, there, is that if you experience a crash at 75mph, it’s going to hurt a lot more than if you experience a crash at 35 mph. On the other side of that coin, however, if you’re driving at 35 mph, the risk that you’re taking is that you might not arrive to your destination on time, and you could miss the event that you’re headed to.

    MJ:

    I like the way that the specific numbers in the speed limit sign can help to quantify the loss. It just takes a more accurate perspective and picture than an actual percentage. People can relate better to concrete numbers rather than an abstract percentage, and I think it’s really smart of Riskalyze to put it this way.

    MITCH:

    You’re already beating me to my punchline. The two big problems, of course, being stereotyping and not being able to objectively measure how much somebody can tolerate losing has basically inspired the very concept of the risk number, which is actually meant to look like a speed limit sign for that exact reason. Imagine you’re driving down the road and you pass a speed limit sign that says “Conservative”. How fast are you going to drive? Or imagine driving down the road and passing a speed limit sign that says “Moderate” or “Aggressive”. How fast are you going to drive?

    If your passenger in this analogy is your client, is their definition of conservative or aggressive going to match yours?

    MJ:

    Oh, interesting.

    BOB:

    We show our clients all of our different portfolios, and it has the speed limit numbers added to it now. Then, we can break down the portfolio and show them the asset allocations and how all of the holdings within them also have speed limit signs to them. You can watch their eyes just light up because they’ve never thought about it that way before. Oh, the aggressive growth – because you know – our aggressive growth comes in about 75, where our conservative growth comes in as low as about 25 mph. That’s the way it looks on the speed limit sign, so it’s emotional support to them because they do know, the slower I drive, the safer I’m going to be, but I’m also not going to get to my destination as fast, like you said.

    Now, to get to these speed limit signs and where does somebody fit – in other words, where do they feel comfortable. Do they feel comfortable driving 75 or do they feel more comfortable at 55 or 25. There’s a whole lot of questions that you ask, and there’s a theory behind these questions. It’s hard because the questions seem so similar as you are going through them. Can you tell what the theory behind all of these different questions are and how it works coming at an arrival of where their risk tolerance is?

    MITCH:

    Absolutely. So, the risk questionnaire, which actually assigns that objective and empirically derived risk number to the client, actually comes from the exact same experiment that Daniel Kahnemans was running for Prospect Theory. So, you may notice that a lot of those questions seem pretty similar – one right after the other, and that is because it is very similar to the act of flipping a coin over and over and over again. We are asking the human brain here to really zero in objectively on where their risk tolerance really is. Risk Tolerance being defined as how much risk they are willing to take on in order to achieve their goals.

    So, the risk questionnaire sort of gives them two options: here’s how much you said you are willing to risk losing, and then it will attempt to, shall I say, tempt them away from that number either by offering them more reward or the same amount of reward but at less risk. It will repeat that question over and over again. Trying to make sure that they can zero in from a range to a point in order to determine what their risk tolerance is. So, if it’s able to tempt them to a higher amount of risk by offering more reward, they weren’t really that committed to their risk aversion, and that might actually surprise them when they see the dollars and cents of how much reward they could get by taking on more risk, you might find out that they are actually much more risk tolerant than they initially thought. They were only thinking about the risk before, they weren’t thinking about the long term rewards.

    Conversely, if they decide to take on this same amount of reward, but they say, “Ooh, I can get that same amount of reward for less risk”, then it turns out that they may be even more risk averse than they initially thought, and they were actually only looking the potential upside that they were going for. They were more goals oriented than they were risk oriented. That could have been very dangerous for them in the long run if they had experienced more loss than they expected, and that’s dangerous for everyone involved in that relationship.

    So, this particular questionnaire really zeroes in on what their true risk tolerance is and then assigns to them an objective risk number that sets the speed limit for the advisor so that they can, get this, assign a portfolio to the particular client that is measured in the exact same way and matches their speed limit without exceeding it, point for point.

    BOB:

    What we are talking about is taking this test. It’s just like, what, the simple one is like 5 questions?

    MITCH:

    If you tried really hard, you could probably stretch it out to ten minutes long.

    BOB:

    Yeah, exactly. By the way, if you would like to take that risk test, we are putting a link on the Christian Financial Perspectives website. You can go to ChristianFinancialPodcast.com and go to today’s episode called “Riskalyze”, and you’ll see a link to take that test for your risk. We have that test that we do with our clients here at Christian Financial Advisors and then we ahve the portfolio that they’ve picked in the past. The portfolio might say it’s 64, but they may come in at 70 so they can handle a little more risk. Or, 64 and maybe their risk test comes in at 50, which means that we need to lower the amount of risk in the portfolio. It’s interesting, isn’t it Mitch and Mary Jo, that the longer we have bull markets, everyone always wants to have more risk in a bull market, but once the bear market starts, everybody’s risk goes down.

    MJ:

    Oh, yes.

    MITCH:

    That is, unfortunately, the very reason as to why so many investors just completely shoot themselves in the foot and really damage their own future. It’s based on fear – those same short term, fear based decisions. We’ve noticed, psychologically speaking, that investors will, by no fault of their own, will buy high and sell low and repeat until they’re broke.

    So, that’s a lot of the fear that drives it, but that’s exactly why Riskalyze was made. People will sabotage their own future based on fear. Riskalyze helps them to understand the risks of their portfolio and understand what their own risk tolerance is, and make sure that they are invested in a portfolio that they can be comfortable with for the long term. If they understand the risk they are taking on, it’s not as scary anymore, and that empowers them to stay invested even when the market has a downturn and make sure that they can achieve their goals for the long term.

    BOB:

    But when a market’s been up for a long, long time, Mitch, they all want to be aggressive, but when you take this risk score, it shows them how much it can go down, especially in a 2008 or similar type situation.

    MITCH:

    Absolutely, and playing those “what if” games with clients is a tricky business, and it’s especially difficult to do so objectively, but that’s another thing that Riskalyze can help with. There are several features of Riskalyze like our “Stress Test” feature, which allows them to compare the current portfolio or a proposal to the market environments of 2008 or 2013 and say, “What would this portfolio do if another 2008 happened?”

    If a portfolio has a risk number in the 30’s or 40’s, it’s not invested as aggressively as the SEP 500 or a similar portfolio to that. It cuts down on a lot of panicked phone calls if all the sudden a market experiences a downturn, and your client calls up and says, “Oh my goodness, the market is down so many points.”

    You can say, “Yes. We talked about this. I showed you the stress test. I showed you that your portfolio has a risk number in the 40’s, where the SEP 500 has a risk number in the 70’s. Lo and behold, you’re not going to miss as much money as the rest of the market. When it has another upturn, you’re going to be right back on track, having lost very little compared to the rest of the market.”

    MJ:

    So, Mitch. Riskalyze has the ability to model scenarios. Is that what you were describing or does it do that differently? How does that feature work?

    MITCH:

    That is a separate feature, actually. Scenarios is a beautiful feature as well. That’s another “what if” game that you can play. The stress test is more future looking. It compares the portfolio’s current, basically, health history going all the way back and what would happen if another 2008 market were to happen again.

    Scenarios is rear facing, but if you look back, you can choose specific dates to see what your particular portfolio’s performance would have been during those dates. Actually, what is was during those dates and then compare that to other significant market environments. Say, if oil experienced a huge downturn, you could come up with a pretty good argument as to what your particular portfolio would do if oil tanked.

    BOB:

    So when reviewing a current client’s portfolio for its current risk level level using Riskalyze, there’s a heatmap approach. What does this heatmap do?

    MITCH:

    That is absolutely one of my favorite visuals in Riskalyze. The first thing that everybody notices is a bunch of red and green bars appear on the screen, but I like to direct their attention to the left side of the screen, where all of a sudden it assigns an individual risk number to every single investment in the portfolio. After that, is shows basically a 95% probability range for every single investment (that’s the red and green bars) that scales based on the percent allocation and the actual volatility of that investment. The more volatile, the higher the risk number and the wider the red and green bars. It’s also weighted for the percent allocation of that particular holding, but that’s not the best part of that feature. The best feature is the yellow bar, which can be found on the far end of the red bar, and that represents diversification, which you were talking about before. There’s some complex math going under the hood of Riskalyze, which we call the anti correlation coefficient matrix, which is so much fun to say [LAUGHS].

    BOB:

    Oh yeah, boy. We just lost somebody on that one!

    MITCH:

    Well, I’m a theater kid that spent some time working in medicine and now I’m a finance technologist, so if I can learn it, anyone can. Any client, whether they’re an artist or a writer otherwise, can learn what anti correlation coefficient means and what that does for diversification. Basically, we take mathematical correlation of when this holding goes up, the other holding goes up, and when this goes up, the other one goes down. When they move against each other like that, that’s inverse correlation, or anti correlation.

    We can assign a coefficient to show measure just how differently they move and when they move opposite of one another, that’s actually good. That actually creates, sort of, an inverse movement in your portfolio, minimizing the risk. So, you can have an extremely mathematically efficient portfolio that maximizes the reward and minimizes the risk through diversification. That yellow bar shrinks the size of the red bar, basically showing how much risk has been minimized. That red bar would have stretched all the way to the left side of the yellow bar, but now it doesn’t, which is why you can have portfolios that have significantly higher rewards than they have risks in that 95% probability range.

    BOB:

    This is why we want you to go online and take this test so we can show you all of this in color. Once you see it in color, it makes a big difference. You’re just hearing it now, but to see it really makes it come alive. Because I tell you, this is one of the most exciting things that we have done in my 25 years of investing. Riskalyze is really helping clients to understand the risk of the portfolio overall and the different risk of the investments that actually make up the portfolio. It really comes down to, what we call, “Behavioral Finance”. It’s helping to take the emotion out of your decisions and replacing that with logic. Behavioral Finance is the study of the influence of psychology and the behavior on investors. It really can affect how the markets react as well. It focuses on the fact that investors are not always rational, and they have limits to their self control and they can be influenced by their own biases. I’ve heard the saying for years that the markets can be irrational a lot longer than we as humans can be rational.

    MJ:

    You know, we did an entire podcast on this. In fact it was episode 13 on the emotional investor. You can find this in the library of previous episodes on christianfinancialpodcast.com

    So Mitch, how does Riskalyze address or handle this emotional behavior we’ve been talking about of the individual investor?

    MITCH:

    Well, the emotions play an extremely powerful role into the decision making process for all human beings. Our limbic system is largely controlled by our frontal lobe, but I don’t know if you guys have sons or teenagers that might have experienced a slightly longer development of the 26 years to get that frontal lobe.
    [ALL LAUGHING]

    BOB:

    [LAUGHS] Yes.

    MJ:

    Bob has 3 daughters, so he’s pretty familiar with it

    MITCH:

    My dear mother used to rub my forehead and say, “When you’re 26, boy. When you’re 26.”

    It certainly is important to understand just how powerful emotions are on our decision making process, but when we understand our emotions, when we understand what we are afraid of, when we understand our fears, suddenly they don’t have as much power over us. That is what is the real magic of Riskalyze is it’s helping investors to understand what their fears are, and then to understand their investments in a way that helps them to understand the risk that they are taking on.

    In the parable of the talents that Jesus talked about, we see the 10 talents and the 5 talents. Which one of the servants was the one that the master rebuked? The one who went and buried that talent.

    BOB:

    Right. The one with the 1 talent.

    MITCH:

    Exactly. But what was the solution that the master said. He said, “You should have invested it.” But why? Why did that servant not invest that one talent?

    BOB:

    He was scared

    MJ:

    He was afraid to lose it

    MITCH:

    Exactly, but we can’t let fear hold us back from being good stewards of not just money, but our lives and the lives around us and the legacies that we pass on.

    BOB:

    That’s right.

    MITCH:

    So if Riskalyze helps you to understand what you are afraid of, which is the risk of losing and the likelihood of it and can help you make the most well informed decision possible about what kind of investments you should be investing in, it can truly help you to grow what you have and be a good steward of that. That is really what Riskalyze is all about – teaching the world to invest fearlessly, not empowering the world to invest well. If you invest fearlessly, that’s a given.

    MJ:

    Awesome. Amen. That’s what we’re really trying to help our clients with. This is a fairly new tool for us, and we have become very excited about it. Bob, I know that you have some favorite features that you have worked with clients recently. Do you want to talk about that a little bit.

    BOB:

    Yes, there’s basically three things that I really like. They can see in real numbers, not just percentages the amount that their portfolio could decline in a down or bear market. Because, you know, Mary Jo, they’ll say, “I’m good being down 3-4%.” Well, we had a client come in the other day who has 2.1 million, and being down 4% is $80,000, and that just blew his mind. It freaked him out. So, he can’t even tolerate being down 4%.

    You know, someone with $20,000, 4% is $800, so there’s a big difference in the higher those numbers get. What I’m really seeing is that when people take this risk test, depending on how much money they have, they realize dollar amounts. That’s making a big, big difference. They truly gain an understanding of the monetary risk, not just the percentage risk, with all of the different portfolios that they can choose from ultra conservative to conservative to moderate to growth to aggressive growth. They know how that risk plays or doesn’t have to play when meeting their financial goals.

    MJ:

    We are just so excited to have this tool. We feel like it’s a real blessing to us. It really helps us address this ingoing, challenge that we’ve always had with clients and making sure that we are targeting the appropriate risk tolerance. The more this market continues to be volatile, the more that is so important.

    As we wrap up today’s show, I wanted to share the advantage to managing risk this way: It allows you to stay invested, to follow your advisors advice, and avoid emotional reactions to market volatility. When we do this, investors are far more likely to achieve their long term investment goals – to buy low and sell high instead of buying high and selling low.

    BOB:

    So as we come to the end of today’s podcast, Mitch, we want to thank you for your time, for being on Christian Financial Perspectives, for telling about all of the ins and outs and how Riskalyze was developed, and how it can help people so much when it comes to investing. Thank you, Mitch!

    MITCH:

    Thank you so much for having me. I had a blast.

    BOB:

    There’s a couple of questions we want to ask you as we come to the end, do you know what your risk score is?

    MITCH:

    [INTERRUPTING] Yes, in fact, mine is 53.

    BOB:

    Oh, yours is a 53. [STARTS TO LAUGH]

    MITCH:

    Oh wait, wait, wait. That question wasn’t directed at me; [EVERYONE LAUGHING] that was directed at your listeners.

    MJ:

    Mine is 74

    BOB:

    So yours is a 53. Mary Jo’s is a 74. Mine is an 88…oh wow, and I think Nathaniel’s is even higher. I’ve been through this business for over 33 years, and I’ve been through all of these ups and downs. I realize, so many times, it’s just volatility, so I’ve learned to take it. That’s probably why my risk score is higher because I have seen it all.

    But, do you know the risk of your actual investments are and how they compare? Is it inline with what your goals are? If you would like to learn more, give Mary Jo or I a call at Christian Financial Advisors today. We’re also including a link on the Christian Financial Perspectives, our podcast website which is christianfinancialpodcast.com, so you can take the riskalize test, or you can go to our Christian Financial Advisors Website. We will have the links on both of those websites so you can take that test. We encourage those that are investors to learn what your risk number is.

    That’s going to do it today on Christian Financial Perspectives as we finish up on Riskalyze.

    [CONCLUSION]

    You’re listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us next week as we explore what God’s word says about money. Don’t forget, you can sign up for our free newsletter on ciswealht.com or give us a call at 877-71-TRUTH. That’s 877-718-7884. To make sure that you don’t miss any of our podcasts regarding the truth about money, make sure to subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives at christianfinancialpodcast.com for free. If there are any specific topics you would like to hear more about, we would love to hear from you.

    That’s all for now, until next week!

    [DISCLOSURES]

    Asset allocation, which is driven by complex mathematical models, should not be confused with the much simpler concept of diversification. Asset allocation mitigates risk, it does not guarantee future performance. A diversified portfolio does not assure a profit or protect against loss in a declining market. All investing involves risk, including the possible loss of principal. There is no assurance that any investment strategy will be successful.

    Mitch Mitchell and Riskalyze are not affiliated with Christian Financial Advisors. Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional.Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

    35 min
  • 41 – From FOMO to JOMO
    Click below to listen to Episode 41 – From FOMO to JOMO
    From FOMO to JOMO

    Learn how you can go from FOMO to JOMO.

    More episodes >>

    Bob and Mary Jo address the phenomenon regarding FOMO or “Fear Of Missing Out”. This episode shows how we can move from FOMO to JOMO “Joy of Missing Out” – joy and contentment with where you are and what you have. Wikipedia defines the “Fear of Missing Out” as:

    “A pervasive apprehension that others might be having rewarding experiences from which one is absent.” This social anxiety is characterized by, “A desire to stay continually connected with what others are doing”.

    As Financial Advisors, we call this mentality “Following The Herd”, which many of us are guilty of doing for fear of missing the next big thing. The same is true in other areas of our lives. Many times, investors experience FOMO, or “Fear Of Missing Out”, when they hear about a friend or family member making a big short term profit on a risky investment. Once you hear about a trade or investment that everyone is talking about, it is usually too late to profit from it, and the opportunity is lost.

    In other words, FOMO can perpetuate the fear of having made the wrong decision on how to spend time.

    HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®

    Mentioned In This Episode
    Christian Financial Advisors
    Website
    Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
    Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®
    Mentioned In This Episode
    Christian Financial Advisors
    Website
    Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
    Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

    Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

    SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
    EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

    [INTRODUCTION]

    Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

    Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

    Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

    Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

    [EPISODE]

    Bob:

    Exodus 20:17, “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” This is the 10th commandment of the 10 commandments.

    Mary Jo:

    Lately, we’ve been hearing a lot about the phenomenon regarding FOMO or the Fear Of Missing Out. I think this is just simply human nature. And as financial advisors, we call that mentality “following the herd”. How many times have you heard that?

    Bob:

    Many times.

    Mary Jo:

    We all want to follow the herd for fear of missing the next big thing or the next hot stock tip. It’s definitely something pretty consistent in our business. I want to take that back to biblical messages and kind of think about Eve in the garden of Eden. Could that have been a moment of FOMO, Fear Of Missing Out?

    Bob:

    Yes, absolutely it was. Oftentimes as investors, we really experienced that FOMO or Fear Of Missing Out when we hear about a friend or a family member that’s made that big short-term profit on a risky investment and then they want in, and you know what happens. That usually backfires, doesn’t it?

    Mary Jo:

    Sure does – greed.

    Bob:

    Once you hear about a trade or investment that everybody’s talking about, it’s usually too late to profit from it. So that opportunity’s lost. So just put that aside the next time you hear that hot tip on the golf course.

    Mary Jo:

    Yep. They always talk about the ones that win, but they never talk about the ones that don’t work out.

    Bob:

    I’ve noticed that.

    Mary Jo:

    So I think the same is true in other areas of our life, the Fear Of Missing Out, it’s actually a real thing. And we’re hearing more and more about it. Wikipedia defines it as, “A pervasive apprehension that others might be having rewarding experiences from which one is absent.” This social anxiety is characterized by a desire to stay continually connected with what others are doing.

    Bob:

    FOMO is also defined as fear of regret which may lead to a compulsive concern that they might miss an opportunity for social interaction, a novel experience, a profitable investment, or other satisfying events. In other words, FOMO perpetuates the fear of having made the wrong decision on how to spend your time. An example of this is how social media is causing a of us to act. Not me, thank goodness, but I can see this in others. It causes us to purchase or post something ourselves. I got away from that, Mary Jo. A couple of years ago, I was all into Facebook and I’m like, I just couldn’t handle that anymore.

    Mary Jo:

    It gets overwhelming.

    Bob:

    It does. It does. In fact, a study by Credit Karma conducted in January of this year found that 68% of millennials said they’ve made a spur of the moment purchase due to FOMO, or that Fear Of Missing Out within hours of seeing someone else post about a certain product.

    Mary Jo:

    You just get caught up in it. It’s so easy. I think this is really more about materialism.

    Bob:

    I think you’re right. Yeah, it is.

    Mary Jo:

    Can you relate to that? I think so.

    Bob:

    I can. I’m an All American boy. I can relate to it.

    Mary Jo:

    Back in the day we used to call it keeping up with the Joneses. How many of us know someone, or maybe we are that someone who obsess about things like big houses, luxury cars, expensive vacation, Disney cruises, Disney itself, trips to Hawaii. And we’re looking at how many families in your neighborhood, how many of the younger families, for example, with kids, are they caught up in all these expensive extracurricular activities. They’re doing dance lessons, karate, cheerleading, gymnastics, soccer, little league. Kids are going to private schools that are so expensive. There’s a tutor or a college prep school on every corner in every strip center. So obviously somebody is using them. We all have cell phones and multiple devices. And think about how many of us are buying cars, expensive cars, for our 16 year olds when they get their driver’s license. Now, we’re seeing so much about the expenses and the rising cost of college educations. Well, when did it become necessary that everybody had that college education. Trade schools are a good choice and maybe even a better choice for a lot of our kids. There’s so much about that in the news. People are even willing to break the law to get into some of those schools.

    Bob:

    Yeah. I’ve heard about that one. Mary Jo, when you came up with this topic, cause you’re the one that came up with this, and we started talking about this and that list you just mentioned. I gotta admit, about 15-20 years ago, I was into that hook, line, and sinker. I mean, we were doing the vacations to Hawaii. We had to have the expensive car, the big house. We were doing the dance lessons and the cheerleading and the private schools and the expensive cars for our kids at 16 or 17. And then the expensive college, private education. I had one on the East coast and one on the West coast at the same time. It’s interesting, though, as you get older and you’ve been through this and you’re going, was that really necessary? And it wasn’t, it wasn’t necessary. I’m glad to say that today, my car has got 70,000 miles on it and I’ve had it, it’d be coming on five years and I’m cool with it and I’m going to get some new brakes put in on it and I’m going to keep it. But it used to be, I had to get that new car every couple of years. I think it’s my maturity in Christ that’s helped me to learn to be content with what God’s given you.

    Mary Jo:

    Well, and I think safe to say, Bob, you’re not alone. And that allowing others that are in this situation to influence your life. It just may not be a healthy thing, and you’re right. We learn that as we mature. There’s nothing to be gained by comparing our own lives with others. And we’re our best selves when we’re living our own life, fulfilling our true happiness, and above all treasuring all the moments and time that we’re never going to get back instead of the stuff. I kind of want to repeat that, I think that’s pretty profound, fulfilling our true happiness above all, treasuring all the moments and time that we will never get back. I believe that FOMO is just short of envy and envy is the devil’s playground. And so Bob, the really interesting part about today’s topic is that brings us to JOMO the Joy Of Missing Out. I think I like that one so much because it’s mojo backwards and Mojo’s my nickname. So JOMO, the Joy Of Missing Out, it’s the opposite of FOMO, the Fear Of Missing Out. It’s about being present and being content with where you are and what you have. Proverbs 14:30, “A heart at peace gives life to the body, but envy rots the bones.”

    Bob:

    As you think about contentment, I was thinking of Paul. He’d been a high priest and then he accepted Christ and he went through so much and I love this scripture from Philippians 4:12. “I know what it is to be in need. I know what it is to have plenty, but I’ve learned the secret of being content in every and any situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.” There’s no doubt that contentment comes truly from a strong relationship with Christ. And that’s where you get your contentment from and your self worth. There’s no doubt when you know your values and priorities, you’ll have confidence in knowing what’s right. So tune out, we want to help you to tune out all that background noise and focus on building and improving your human connections and strengthening those relationships with things that count and be intentional with your time, submitting under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and being present with God’s word, instead of the shoulds, the wants, the Fear Of Missing Out. There’s so much more joy and peace in that place with God. And we all want more joy in our lives and what to live life in less fear.

    Mary Jo:

    It’s not only about being intentional with your time, but also your money. There’s so much to be said for gaining and establishing joy in our lives. One of the best ways to do this is by eliminating those financial chaos that creates havoc. You don’t have to be wealthy to do this. You simply need to live within your means and save for a rainy day. Ooh, that’s scary thought, isn’t it? JOMO is about choices that energize you, whereas FOMO is about choices that deplete you. So with what you rather be, energized or depleted?

    Bob:

    I’d rather be energized.

    Mary Jo:

    I think so. And so let’s look at some specific ways to choose joy and avoid fear. I think the easiest one is to practice saying no, and that’s hard for some of us. What I already have is good enough. I don’t need more stuff to be happy. If I don’t spend this now, I can do this later. It’s my choice. Turn off all those notifications and unsubscribe. I just take a few minutes every day and I unsubscribe from all these useless emails that I get. And we don’t need all these social media notifications. They don’t help us.

    Bob:

    That’s the truth.

    Mary Jo:

    It’s a time suck. And we need to set expectations that you’ll respond in 24 hours. Not immediately, unless it’s an emergency. When did we become those people that we get this text messages, and there’s this expectation that we have our phone with us constantly. And most of all, be honest with your friends. If you’re trying to spend less, maybe they are too. I think people just don’t want to talk about it, but we’re pretty much all in that same boat, I think.

    Bob:

    Yeah, definitely disconnect, like you say, from all that technology and social media, and instead connect with God’s word daily where you’re going to find real joy and peace and significance and prioritize your time. And don’t waste that time on social media, like you were just talking about and worry about what everybody else is doing. Maybe even unsubscribed from Facebook. Oh no!

    Mary Jo:

    A lot of people are doing it.

    Bob:

    And all those alerts and status updates. I haven’t been on my Facebook, I don’t think, in a couple months and it hasn’t hurt me.

    Mary Jo:

    Yeah. I’ll go in spurts and I’ll ignore it for a week and then I’ll follow it for a couple of days. It just takes us down a rabbit hole.

    Bob:

    So hopefully, nobody’s just said about our podcasts, now I’m turning that thing off.

    Mary Jo:

    Well, hopefully it is not time wasted.

    Bob:

    We want to give you joy here. We’re talking about true joy.

    Mary Jo:

    That is absolutely true. If you’re stuck in that space, in that Fear Of Missing Out space, pay attention to what positive things those people who are financially secure are doing. Just kind of observe and watch. Want what they have because there is real joy in that. We’ve talked recently about how a paid off mortgage is the new BMW.

    Bob:

    That’s why Dave Ramsey always says.

    Mary Jo:

    A substantial emergency fund provides you with choices, and choices are freeing. Choices bring joy and not stress. I want to kind of get back to that biblical principle wondering how much is enough and who owns it all. So instead of binge watching that mindless dribble on TV or surfing YouTube for those funny pet videos that I see so much, speaking of social media, spend that time reviewing your financial future. Let’s make a plan together, a plan for a financially fit future. How does that sound

    Bob:

    Sounds good. And learning to recognize the opportunity costs, then you can gain more that JOMO, Joy Of Missing Out. Spend time on rewarding things like playing a game with your kids, calling a friend who’s down, or how about this one, spending time in prayer?

    Mary Jo:

    Oh, there you go.

    Bob:

    Those things that generate real returns and pay large dividends over wasting time on meaningless things. There’s so much in Ecclesiastes where Solomon talked about that meaningless, meaningless. By the way, if you read Ecclesiastes, I always say read the entire book at one time, because if you just read a chapter, it can depress you. So you need to read the whole thing where he gets to the heart of the matter in the very end and serving God and loving others. Get clear on your longterm priorities, knowing what your financial and personal goals are. It’s going to help you determine what’s the true cost of everything. What will you gain? What will you lose? And get a refresher on the value of compounding. Saving now can add such big results versus saving later.

    Mary Jo:

    Another good one is stay in instead of going out. In that same credit karma study that we mentioned earlier, 35% of respondents stated they saved $26 to $50 by staying in instead of going out.

    Bob:

    You know what, Mary Jo. I want to tell you something there, too. It’s so much healthier.

    Mary Jo:

    Oh, it is. Yeah. It’s real money. It can add up. What’s interesting, not to get too much off on a tangent, but since my husband retired, he’s not traveling all the time and our life is a little bit calmer. We’ve noticed we’re staying home, we’re eating more, and we’re loading the dishwasher. Now that means we have to empty the dishwasher a whole lot more often, but we noticed just how much we’re enjoying eating at home.

    Bob:

    Right? Exactly.

    Mary Jo:

    It’s cheaper and it’s better for us.

    Bob:

    And it’s more peaceful many times cause the restaurants can get so loud.

    Mary Jo:

    Absolutely. So be honest about your needs. Don’t let JOMO spending derail your savings plans. Invite your friends over for personal pizzas, popcorn, and a movie instead of spending a small fortune out on a movie. Have you priced what it costs to go to the concession stands at the theater these days? It’s like you need to take out a loan.

    Bob:

    I haven’t been on. So I don’t know. I got the big screen TV. So I just watch that at home. It’s a lot more comfortable and I know what I’m laying on. I’m not sure what those seats have in them.

    Mary Jo:

    That’s true. I think we go to maybe one movie a year, and it’s generally the one that you want to see on that really big screen. Here on Christian Financial Perspectives, you’ve heard us refer to this quote from Dave Ramsey on occasion. I think this is profound. “We buy things we don’t need with money we don’t have to impress people we don’t like.”

    Bob:

    Can I repeat that?

    Mary Jo:

    Yes, you may.

    Bob:

    I want them to hear it from both of us. “We buy things we don’t need with money we don’t have to impress people we don’t like.” Wow.

    Mary Jo:

    It leaves us in debt for years.

    Bob:

    Yeah, it’s a really good saying. So be aware of FOMO as well as JOMO and those spending triggers. Now remember FOMO is the Fear Of Missing Out and JOMO is the joy. You actually find joy in missing out. So do you really need that high priced, vanilla latte next time you go out or that new car when your old one can easily go a few more years? I was just saying, I ask myself that question, and does FOMO, the Fear Of Missing Out, lead to excessive screen time that leads to impulse spending. Retail therapy often leads to debt that robs you of your joy of missing out.

    Mary Jo:

    Do you really enjoy the time you spend with that friend that never met a designer handbag she can’t live without – I’m not naming any names or family members – versus that friend who prefers a hike in the woods versus a lunch at that trendy new spot.

    Bob:

    Now, you’ve got me pegged there. What am I going to like?

    Mary Jo:

    The walk in the woods?

    Bob:

    You got it. I’m a big hiker.

    Mary Jo:

    Yeah. As Henry David Thoreau said, “Wealth is the ability to fully experience life. Don’t let your life pass you by because you spent every minute obsessing over someone else’s.” And Bob, in this week’s sermon at church, the pastor talked about the hope that we are freed from something that enslaves us. Isn’t that the same as Fear Of Missing Out?

    Bob:

    I think it is, Mary Jo. It’s funny you’re talking about the handbag, I’ve got a quick story I want to tell you here. So we have our Christian Financial Advisors System that you can link all your accounts to, and it helps you with budgeting. So I have a very wealthy client makes about $800,000 a year. And he just wasn’t watching budgeting at all. So he got on this budgeting app, he started watching it and he noticed his wife had bought a purse that ran about $3,500.

    Mary Jo:

    Oh my goodness.

    Bob:

    And he’d never looked at it. He’s like, what is this? I just wanted to say it. So I don’t know if she liked the budgeting app very much. I think I was in trouble with her. I haven’t seen her since. He always comes to the reviews without her.

    Mary Jo:

    Yes, this is a judgment free zone. We’re not judging, but think of all the hungry mouths you could feed with $3,500,

    Bob:

    We’re big sponsors of Compassion International. We actually sponsor three children and we send them birthday gifts and Christmas gifts and extras on top of that. I just think about how many from that one purse, how much food could that buy? And that’s real joy. The joy of giving because it releases selfishness, as you know.

    Mary Jo:

    Oh yes. On that same story, I think that we found that after a lot of the natural disasters that we’ve experienced in the country over the last few years, once we got to the point where we had sufficient savings and whenever there was a crisis, we were able to just not even think about it. Instead of saying, “Honey, do you think we can afford to give?” It was, “Honey, how much should we give?” It just gave my heart joy when I was able to just immediately know I had money saved to give.

    Bob:

    And the conclusion of all this today, we really want to encourage you to spend time on those things that truly matter – faith, family, connecting with people, disconnect from that Fear Of Missing Out and reclaim that joy. I’d like to leave you with this scripture from today’s podcast. 1 Peter 4:9-11, “Cheerfully share your home with those who need a meal or a place to stay. God has given each of you a gift from his great variety of spiritual gifts. Use them well to serve one another. Do you have the gift of speaking, then speak as though God himself were speaking through you. Do you have the gift of helping others? Do it with all the strength and energy that God supplies, then everything you do will bring glory to God through Jesus Christ. All glory and power to him forever and ever. Amen.”

    [DISCLOSURES]

    Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

    21 min
  • 40 – About to Retire, Now What?
    Click below to listen to Episode 40 – About to Retire, Now What?
    About to Retire, Now What?

    Learn about types of retirement plans and how they can work together to create an income stream for life.

    More episodes >>

    Have you worked for a large company for over 20 years? Are you between the ages of 55 and 65 and now thinking about retiring, but you are just not sure what to do? You are not alone!

    Retirement may be on your mind, but you might not be sure how that 401k, plus a possible pension plan and company stock, is going to work all together to create a stream of income for the rest of your life. It can be scary because making a mistake at this age gives you little, if any, time to recover.

    In this episode, Bob and Mary Jo cover the importance of working with a trusted advisor to help you understand the complexity of all of the moving pieces and parts of retirement and how these pieces fit together for your benefit.

    HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®

    Mentioned In This Episode
    Christian Financial Advisors
    Website
    Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
    Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

    Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

    SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
    EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

    [INTRODUCTION]

    Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekday program where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

    Mary Jo: This is Mary Jo Lyons.

    Bob: Are you ready to learn the truth about money from a biblical perspective?

    Mary Jo: Join us as we discuss what God’s word says about money and integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to the program and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

    [EPISODE]

    Bob: Proverbs 2:7, “All wisdom comes from the Lord, and so do common sense and understanding. God gives helpful advice to everyone who obeys him and protects all of those who live as they should.”

    Bob: Proverbs 15:22, “Plans go wrong for lack of advice. Many advisors bring success.” You know, Bob, I know we talked about this before, but I just love Proverbs. It’s like a little instruction manual on how to live life while loving God and just staying true to his commandments. I also find it fascinating as you look through the scriptures and we use different resources all the time and we discuss different versions of the Bible, they are all just worded a a little bit different. There is a difference that a few words can make. I dunno. I’m continually fascinated by that. I know I’m a broken record and you get tired of me.

    Bob: Oh no, I don’t. I never get tired. I never get tired of you , Mary Jo.

    Mary Jo: I’m glad to hear that.

    Bob: I totally agree. Proverbs is so sweet in that there’s 31 chapters and many of the months have 31 days, and you can read the chapter that corresponds to the day of the month. I tell you, Mary Jo, I read Proverbs so much to my children. They’re like, dad, do you know any other book? And I was like, yes I do. But you know, Mary Jo, I’ve never seen anyone hurt in life by following God’s word, especially in the book of Proverbs. I mean, it really tells you how to live life.

    Mary Jo: It does. What are we talking about today?

    Bob: I’ll tell you. So today we’re going to be talking about financial wisdom for pre retirees. You know, you’re thinking about, I’m about to retire maybe in the next year or two or three years now.

    Mary Jo: So maybe you’ve worked for a large company for 20 years, 20, 30, 40 years. You’re between the ages of 55 and 65. You’re beginning to think about retirement. Say you’re an empty nester or the kids or out of the house, so now you can kind of focus on your savings and what you need to do, but you’re maybe not sure what to do. And the thing is, you are not alone. There are so many people that are right there with you.

    Bob: So as you’re listening to our podcast today, think about this. Can you relate to some of this? You’ve worked for a major corporation, like an energy company or a large manufacturer or a technology company for many years. You’ve been really, you know, wise. You’ve not always spent everything you have. So what you’ve done is you’ve put a sizable amount in your company retirement plan like that 401k and now it’s accumulated quite a bit. Maybe you have a defined benefit plan, maybe even some company stock, and you’re just not sure what to do. You know, retirement’s on your mind. But you’ve got this 401k. You’ve got this pension plan. You’ve got this company stock. And how’s all this going to work together to create a stream of income for you for the rest of your life? And I tell you, Mary Jo, it’s just plain scary from what I’ve seen with people because making a mistake at this age, it just doesn’t give you hardly any time to recover. You can’t do it. You can’t make mistakes at this age.

    Mary Jo: Well, and that’s why I’m such a fan of planning. So, you know me, but I do think that’s what it’s all about. You know, Bob, recently I read this article that executives need to plan to keep planning. And it occurred to me that the statement, it’s not just true for executives, it’s true for everyone. It’s for all of us. And you’ve got time consuming demands on your career, your family, the complex nature of all your financial circumstances and the planning for your own future. It can be daunting. You know, where do I start? How do I approach it? But we’re here to kind of make the chaos simple and there are some steps you can take to just go through it. Just like anything else, I approach it very methodically. Let’s just take it one step at a time.

    Bob: I like that saying, “You need to plan to keep planning”. And you know, Mary Jo, situations can change so quickly today, especially with the volatile markets that we seem to have more and more today because of technology and the, you know, the robo advisers and all this computer trading that’s going on. Plus, a change in family dynamics or a health crisis that all of a sudden hits you out of nowhere. That can all change your situation very quickly as well.

    Mary Jo: And you know, that’s why it’s so important to work with a trusted advisor. One who shares your values – and for us it’s those Christian values that are so important – and that understands the complexity of all the moving pieces and parts of your financial life. That’s what we do here at Christian Financial Advisors. We look at how they all fit together. We walk alongside you as you move through these stages in life, helping you make sense of the complex web of financial decisions that you face as you move forward. And we help you create peace among the chaos.

    Bob: And maybe you’re even one of these high level executives in a C Suite, meaning a CEO or CFO or mid level manager or an area supervisor or somewhere in between. You could have a complex earning package to sift through and maybe you’ve never thought of yourself as an executive, but still you’ve accumulated that sizeable amount in your 401k or stock options and you just need help figuring it out, how to navigate this transition. That’s where we are. We’re here to help you with that. Absolutely.

    Mary Jo: So how do you go from a paycheck provided by your employer to a paycheck provided by your own investments? And how does this fit with social security? When should you consider taking social security? You know, you’ve probably got a lot of questions and we have answers.

    Bob: So let’s try to get into some of those questions and get into some answers. And here’s what we see as some of the complex earning packages like base salary, maybe that’s higher than the national average and how do you handle that, bonus pay outs that can be fully or partially guaranteed or fully or partially discretionary or tied to a company performance or other metrics. I’ll tell you that’s a lot of wording in there, but we see that. Company stock, this can be a very complex topic which we want to talk more about in just a few minutes.

    Mary Jo: A lot of managers have deferred compensation. Those are typically longterm incentive plans. They can be tied to a noncompete agreement after retirement. So it’s a way to keep you from going to work for a competitor, and there are some things that you really need to consider in the timing of those payouts. I know my husband has that in his situation and he did have a noncompete. So as long as he doesn’t go to work for anybody else, some of what he earned in the past will be paid out and it’s in those years and that’s what we’re using to kind of bridge that gap between early retirement and your typical retirement age. So those are incentive deferred compensation plans and a lot of people have those so we can help you kind of figure that out.

    Bob: Now, Mary Jo, like in Mike’s situation, his noncompete agreement is only if he doesn’t go in the same field, he could still go to work. Like he could go to work for a major lumber company if he wanted to, right?

    Mary Jo: Exactly. Let’s hope he thinks about that.

    Mary Jo: Oh, he’s home 24/7 now.

    Bob: Well, I go to a couple of the big ones, but actually all three of them in my town every day it seems like, especially cause we’re building a house right now. My wife says, “Yeah, I could see if you ever retired,” which I’m never going to because my wife says, “No way will you ever retire, Bob. I will not let you retire. You’d drive me crazy.” But that’s where I would want to go to work with one of those major companies like that. But you know, there’s profit sharing and there’s lump sum pay outs. There’s accrued vacation. Boy, we’ve seen some big payouts here. You know, how’s that gonna hit you tax wise, accrued sick leave, and there’s just all these tax consequences to that. There’s employee benefits, knowing what is a portable taxation of each depending on who pays the premium, the employer or the employee. Just a lot of questions.

    Mary Jo: Bob, another thing to think about is the executive perks and the taxation of such. So as a general rule, the cost of providing executive perks results in taxable income to the executive, but it’s also deductible to the company. So that’s one of the benefits of why they do it.

    Bob: And you know, a lot of companies like these larger companies or even some smaller, private companies, they’ll offer some financial planning benefits for their employees. So you want to check with your company and see if they’ll even reimburse you for the cost of financial planning.

    Mary Jo: You know Bob, it’s so common. HEB is one of our biggest local employers here in Texas, and they have a benefit for their executives and their managers. The cost, it’s usually passed on as taxable income. There are fringe benefits including employee discounts, free parking, meals and lodging, and athletic facilities. So you want to look and see if those are available to you and if you are getting paid for those, how is it impacting you from a tax perspective?

    Bob: You’ve helped some HEB folks haven’t you?

    Mary Jo: Absolutely.

    Bob: Then you have this company’s employer’s stock, and you know you’ve got the executive’s interests that may be tied to the company. The company stock can be in the form of options. We’ve seen that, awards, restricted units, and that can get very complicated. Mary Jo, you know, we have a great CPA firm that we work with. They have one of their CPAs that understands all this complexity and we usually bring him into the meeting because you’ve got your vesting schedules, your tax consequences, how can you avoid this stock and other funds? Can you cash it out any time? Just so many different questions, but we’ll bring him in and get these questions answered.

    Mary Jo: One of the things you said I think is really important and something a lot of people fail to think about. If you’ve got a heavy concentration of stock options in your employer, then everything you have is tied to that employer. Your salary is coming from that employer. You’ve got the huge stock options and if you’re investing in your 401k in funds that own that company stock as well, think about how concentrated that is and if they have a dive in their stock price, it’s going to have a real impact on your financial future. So you want to be looking at all your exposure to that company stock and diversify, diversify, diversify. So, many employers offer a 90 day period for you to exercise any existing stock award grants once you leave the company. And it’s generally true for both you, if you leave the company voluntarily or if you let go or they’re bought out in. Sometimes, when you go through a corporate acquisition, your investing can be accelerated and you’re given the opportunity to exercise those rewards in a timely manner. Typically, as I said, it’s 90 days. You have stock awards when restricted stock shares vest, they are added to your W2 and are taxed as income. So, you want to be thinking about what else is going on in that year you’re planning to exercise those stock options. Are you going to get that lump sum pay out of your vacation and your sick days? That could really give you a big jump in your income that year. So maybe you could spread it out. Some things to think about.

    Bob: You know, here’s an interesting thing you’ll hear. We hear this a lot with somebody that’s worked for a major company and is getting these stock options is called “net unrealized appreciation” or NUA and that takes a lot of special tax handling, as well. So if you own company stock in your employer’s retirement plan, we encourage you to seek us out before liquidating that because that can be a complex issue and you really need to understand it, and we’ll help you to understand that

    Mary Jo: These whole stock options, it is a pretty complex scenario and if you are impacted by it, we definitely want you to really get some help in that regard. A lot of these are incentive stock options. There’s also non-qualified stock options and one of the things that we kind of think about when we’re looking at those incentive stock options, it might incentivize leaders in a company to take excessive risks and maybe do behavior that could lead to catastrophic corporate failure. We’ve seen it happen time and time again. Just think about this big company in Houston years ago, a big utility company.

    Bob: Oh, you can name it. They’re not publicly traded anymore.

    Mary Jo: Does Enron mean anything to you? But corporate malfeasance in order to predict the value of large pools of stock options, it happens all the time or more than we can imagine. So you want to be looking at that.

    Bob: And one of the many advantages of using a biblically responsible investment strategy, like we’re always talking about here on Christian Financial Perspectives, at Christian Financial Advisors, we screen out these companies that have poor disciplinary records and who have bad corporate citizens.

    Mary Jo: I think that’s so important and something that we can help them look at for sure. It doesn’t impact everybody, but there is that potential for risk, and I really kind of want to stress that concentrated positions. Executives of major companies have a lot of eggs in that one basket. So when we talk about diversifying, we say that no more than 10% of your overall investments should be focused on that company. Your compensation is often tied to company performance, and your benefit package can include stock options and grants or employee stock purchase plans that could result in more concentration of your company stock, and your salarie is tied to that company as we talked about. And your future earning, your human capital, is also tied to that company. That’s another big chunk. So we really want to stress the need to diversify, and you might need help with that.

    Bob: So you know, Mary Jo, as we talk about this, we’ve talked about so many complex issues when it comes to this compensation package as somebody’s about to retire, which we start off if you’re about to retire in the next one to three years, it just goes to show that it can get very, very complicated. But we’re here to help you through all that.

    Mary Jo: And there’s also something that we want to talk about and that’s understanding your health situation. According to USA Today, a recent report from the Center for Retirement Research showed that 37% of seniors were forced to retire earlier than planned. This was due to poor health, employment issues, and family problems. So maybe they were laid off and couldn’t find a job, or they had elderly parents that needed help. You know, there were other family dynamics that entered into it. So an unexpected early retirement likely means you would have to retire with smaller savings. To avoid this, they recommend you stay fit and healthy and save aggressively at an early age.

    Bob: And understanding all of these employee benefits and retirement benefits, like what’s portable, what’s not, analyze your insurance needs in retirement. Do you need to maintain your disability or life insurance once you quit working? Life insurance needs are something to think about when you’re younger, but as you get older, things can change. You may not need as much, but then again, you may. So if you’re considering retirement before the age of 65, are you going to have access to retiree healthcare? And if not, who’s going to cover that expense?

    Mary Jo: Have you thought about inflation and how that’s going to impact your spending power over time? Charitable giving and philanthropic causes are also something we wanted to think about. For those higher income earners, the tax rates and capital gain grades make charitable giving attractive, but it’s also something that a lot of us want to participate in. We don’t have to necessarily be a high earner, but we all have giving goals and many executives, they’re wealthier now than they were five years ago due to the bull market. This could result in unrealized capital gains, especially in an after tax portfolio. So if you’ve been fortunate enough to be saving after tax and you’ve got some highly concentrated, highly appreciated positions there, you may want to think about a donor advice fund where you could donate those to the fund or a charitable remainder trust. Those are attractive options to help you manage the tax consequences of some of those appreciated stock positions.

    Bob: Another thing is retirement readiness. We like to look at “what if” scenarios to develop longterm goals and wealth optimization and tax strategies. Looking at your individual situation. So like at CIS wealth management, what we do every day is we use a planning software that’s very interactive. We’re living and breathing and once we get the basic financial information entered into the system, we can model a lot of different what if scenarios and look at those results.

    Mary Jo: Clients ask us, “Well, what if I want to retire earlier or work longer? What if I want to buy that boat now or maybe that RV and what if I want to take the entire family on a major expensive vacation or maybe an overseas mission trip? Can I afford to do that?

    Bob: Or what if we need longterm care insurance or go into a nursing home; can we afford that? Do we have enough?

    Mary Jo: Do I have enough to give more to my church or a favorite charity?

    Bob: So it really comes down to what are your replacement income options when you retire? The more you make, the more you will need to save to maintain that lifestyle you’ve gotten used to, and the older you get, the harder it is to replace it.

    Mary Jo: That’s true. And as we age in the higher our earnings are, the longer it takes to replace that same level of job. So there’s definitely more risks. Something to think about as well. Also tax planning – from research and strategy development to the preparation of your tax returns. A lot of companies here in South Texas, they have cross border tax issues for companies that are maybe from Mexico or you work in Mexico or you work in other countries outside. So those can create all kinds of complex tax situations that you may need help planning, and you might have some cashflow and debt management issues to work through. So we want to help advise you on budgeting and the appropriate use of debt as we age. Ideally, we want to wind down all that debt before we step away from our employment, and you might want to have your distribution, as we were talking about earlier, of executive compensation plans. When are you going to take what and how’s it going to impact you from an income perspective and a tax perspective?

    Bob: As we do this financial assessment, not everyone sees themselves as being retired when they retire because they have other goals in life. It may be that extended mission trip – we actually have a client that is on an extended mission trip and when I say extended, like three years – and they had saved enough to be able to afford that and it’s just a really neat thing and I talked to him just the other day and they were so excited about what they’re doing.

    Mary Jo: That is such a blessing for them to be able to do that. It didn’t happen overnight, and it took planning. The other thing we want to look at is estate planning. Most of us, we don’t want to give more to the tax man than we absolutely have to. So that’s a wealth transfer assessment, and women executives have their own unique needs. I don’t want to talk in generalities, but women tend to be givers and they might have significant charitable intentions. They also are more likely to be caught up in that sandwich generation. You know, they might have to be helping elderly parents. At the same time, they’re helping young adult children. They have some own unique needs, and we want to look at those appropriately.

    Bob: And then last, then get to the investment coordination. You know, Mary Jo, so many people put that one first.

    Mary Jo: There’s so much more to consider. It’s part of the puzzle but it’s only a piece of the puzzle.

    Bob: Yup. Cause every element of a comprehensive financial strategy needs to fit together with all those other components. It’s kind of like a jigsaw puzzle. It should all fit together. You need to coordinate and correlate all your investments, funds and managers across all these different investment strategies for retirement.

    Mary Jo: You know, Bob, I’ve heard so many people that they fail to look at it. I always think of it as like a crazy quilt. So you’ve got all these pieces and they all kind of fit together and they have all these crazy stitchings that adhere them to each other. But once it’s all said and done, it’s like a nice blanket that keeps you warm. It all has to fit together and that’s where you need help with a trusted financial advocate. According to DALBAR’s annual report, quantitative analysis of investor behavior, investors tend to consistently underperform the market due to emotional reactions to market volatility. Those that work with an advisor tend to do better than those that go it alone for this very reason. Having someone to help you navigate the many financial decisions that await you can help turn chaos into calm. A discipline process and a steadying hand to help guide you can be a difference maker.

    Bob: We’re here to help you with all this. So give us a call at Christian Financial Advisors at (830) 609-6986 or connect with us on LinkedIn or Facebook and subscribe to this podcast.

    [CONCLUSION]

    Bob: You’re listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us next week as we explore what God’s word says about money and don’t forget, you can sign up for our free newsletter at ciswealth.com or give us a call at (877) 71-TRUTH. That’s (877) 718-7884. To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts regarding the truth about money, be sure to subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives at christianfinancialpodcast.com for free. If there are any specific topics you would like to hear more about, we’d love to hear from you.

    Mary Jo: That’s all for now until next week.

    [DISCLOSURES]

    Before deciding whether to retain assets in a 401k or rollover to an IRA, an investor should consider various factors including, but not limited to, investment options, fees and expenses, services, withdrawal penalties, protection from creditors and legal judgements, required minimum distributions, and possession of employer stock. For a comprehensive review of your personal situation, always consult your legal advisor. Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely, those are the hosts Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered to Christian Investment Advisors, Inc DBA, Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

    24 min
  • 39 – Planning for Summer Vacation
    In this episode, Bob and Mary Jo talk about something fun that is on everyone’s mind this time of year - summer travel. They share ideas, tips, and suggestions on how to get the biggest bang for your buck while traveling.
    38 min
  • 39 – Planning for Summer Vacation
    Click below to listen to Episode 39 – Planning for Summer Vacation
    Planning for Summer Vacation

    Check out these tips when it comes to saving money while on vacation.

    More episodes >>

    In this episode, Bob and Mary Jo talk about something fun that is on everyone’s mind this time of year – summer travel. They share ideas, tips, and suggestions on how to get the biggest bang for your buck while traveling. Not every vacation needs to be on the cheap, but sometimes we all enjoy splurging. However, the money that you save is more money in your pocket that you can do other things with.

    We never know what could happen tomorrow, so it is important to do some traveling while you are physically able to enjoy it. If you think you can’t afford it, get creative! Save where you can and splurge in other areas of your life.

    HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®

    Mentioned In This Episode
    Christian Financial Advisors
    Website
    Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
    Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

    Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

    SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
    38 min
  • 38 – Who Is Kingdom Advisors
    You may have heard Bob and Mary Jo talk about Kingdom Advisors before. Joining them is special guest Rob West, the President of Kingdom Advisors, a professional association promoting the integration of a biblical worldview into financial practices. In this episode, you will learn about Kingdom Advisors, who they are, and what that can mean for you.
    32 min
  • 38 – Who Is Kingdom Advisors
    Click below to listen to Episode 38 – Who Is Kingdom Advisors
    38 – Who Is Kingdom Advisors

    Learn about Kingdom Advisors from their president, Ron West.

    More episodes >>

    You may have heard Bob and Mary Jo talk about Kingdom Advisors before. Joining them is special guest Rob West, the President of Kingdom Advisors, a professional association promoting the integration of a biblical worldview into financial practices. In this episode, you will learn about Kingdom Advisors, who they are, and what that can mean for you.

    Rob serves as primary spokesperson for the organization along with giving leadership to organizational strategy and content. He has dedicated his professional career to work at the intersection of faith and finance, having led a successful faith-based financial services firm, serving as the host of several radio programs on a biblical approach to finance, and speaking frequently on matters of faith and finance.

    GUESTS: Rob West, President of Kingdom Advisors

    HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®

     

    * Rob West and Kingdom Advisors are not affiliated with Christian Financial Advisors.

    Mentioned In This Episode
    Christian Financial Advisors
    Website
    Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
    Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®
    Rob West
    Kingdom Advisors
    Website
    Find A Certified Kingdom Advisor
    Website
    Moneywise Radio Show
    WebsiteInstagram

    Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

    SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
    EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

    [INTRODUCTION]

    Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

    Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

    Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

    Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

    [EPISODE]

    Bob:

    Ecclesiastes 4:9-12, “Two are better than one because they have a good return for their labor. If either one of them falls down, one can help the other up, but pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them up. Also, if two lie down together, they will keep warm, but how can one keep warm alone? The one may be overpowered. Two can defend themselves.” A cord of three strands is not quickly broken.”

    Mary Jo:

    In today’s podcast, we’re going to talk about Kingdom Advisors, who they are, and what they mean for you, our listeners. As Certified Kingdom Advisors, Bob and I both are uniquely positioned to integrate God’s plans into our advice and counsel in working with our clients. Joining us today is a special guest, Rob West, the president of Kingdom Advisors, a professional association promoting the integration of a biblical worldview into financial practices. Before we get started, I wanted to back up to the scripture. I just loved that last line, “A cord of three strands is not quickly broken”. As we set the tone for our conversation about Kingdom Advisors, there’s three of us and maybe even four of us when you add God into the picture, but we’ve got you and I as advisors, our clients that we’re working with, the umbrella of Kingdom Advisors, and God’s word. And when we put all that together, that’s a pretty strong group.

    Bob:

    It is, Mary Jo. You were asking that this morning, when I said we were going to have Rob West as the guest on the program, immediately what came to my mind was this scripture because Kingdom Advisors comes along, steps along the side of the financial advisor that wants to integrate a biblical worldview into finance. So Rob West is our guest today. He serves as the primary spokesperson for the organization. He’s actually the president of Kingdom Advisors. Rob’s dedicated his professional career to working with what we call it, the intersection of faith and finance and having led a successful faith based financial services firm himself, serving as also the host of several radio programs on a biblical approach to finance and speaking frequently on matters of faith and finance. Rob and his wife, Julie, and their four children live in Roswell, Georgia. So Rob, welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives. We’re so excited to have you on our podcast.

    Rob:

    Well, Bob, Mary Jo, it’s a true delight to be with you today.

    Mary Jo:

    As president of Kingdom Advisors, can you tell us more about Kingdom Advisors and what the mission of the organization is? Kind of set the stage?

    Rob:

    Yeah, I’d be delighted to. This is something we’re so passionate about, and you all are such a great representation of this army of men and women around the country And now beyond the United States that are committed to serving clients around biblically wise, financial advice. Mary Jo, our mission is simple. It’s to benefit the public by providing what we call our four pillars – advocacy, training, community, and ultimately distinction to Christian financial professionals. And we grant the Certified Kingdom Advisor designation and uphold it as the standard of excellence for biblically wise, financial advice. The idea is that when you lay a biblical worldview on top of financial decision-making, there are clear planning differentiators, and an advisor who’s been trained and equipped to really be a specialist in that biblical advice, combined with real competency and experience and a commitment to character and integrity, really presents a financial advisor that’s a unique offering to a Christian who wants values alignment between the advice they’re receiving, of course, competent advice, but the advice they’re receiving from their advisor and the decisions they’re making to make sure they’re consistent. Because here’s the reality. We know that a biblical worldview of money is time-tested. It’s always right. It’s always relevant. It’s never going to change. And it’s often counter-cultural. So having an advisor who understands that and really can specialize in that advice is what we’re all about. And so our vision is that every Christian would have access to a Certified Kingdom Advisor. We’ve got 2,500 members today, but looking forward to the day that we have ultimately 30,000 CKAs around the country and beyond ready to serve Christians in their financial counsel.

    Mary Jo:

    That’s awesome.

    Bob:

    500 members of Kingdom Advisors, or is that actually 2,500 Certified Kingdom Advisors now, Rob?

    Rob:

    Yeah, that’s a good question. So actually I’ll give you more specific numbers. We’ve got 2,700 members of Kingdom Advisors today, and those would be folks that are a part of the association and in the community and participating in our training and those types of things. And then about 1500 of those have earned CKA today.

    Mary Jo:

    I love being part of an army. I always wanted to be in the armed forces. So now I feel like I’m in good company.

    Bob:

    We’re part of such an army of believers and financial advisors that believe that really God owns it all. And I know becoming a Certified Kingdom Advisor is not an easy task at all. It really requires a pretty major commitment. Rob, we both made that commitment. Can you explain more about this certification of becoming a Certified Kingdom Advisor, even from the part of how long they have to have been in business and having to get personal references and that process to receive those qualifications?

    Rob:

    Yeah. Well, Bob, this is something, as you might imagine, that’s very important to us because if we’re going to hold somebody out as being credentialed and meeting all of our requirements and carry the designation title Certified Kingdom Advisor, we want to make sure this is somebody who’s not just looking for a marketing ploy or looking for access to more clients, but somebody who’s really committed to upholding the standards that really go along with the CKA designation. And so, this person who’s earned this, like you and Mary Jo, is a committed Christian financial, legal, or accounting professional who’s met high standards in integrity, character, and competence, and then has specialized training. What does that mean? Well, let me break that down. It begins with the training that’s underneath the CKA designation. It’s a 60 hour university certificate program offered through, at least today, the two largest Christian universities in the country, Liberty University and Indiana Wesleyan University as an online certificate program with a national proctored exam. So we’re talking about a rigorous course of study with a university backing that would be the equivalent of a three credit hour course if you were on campus. And again followed by that national three hour proctored exam. In addition to that, somebody completing that program successfully, as you mentioned, Bob, there’s a significant experience requirement that includes 10 years experience, or one of the, what we call, big seed designations. You either have to have a CFA or CFP or CHFC or a CPA, one of those types of designations to evidence the initial base of competency. And then the CKA is really to add on to that base of competency with this specialization in a biblical worldview of money. Beyond that, we do require a Pastoral and client references. We have a code of ethics and a statement of faith that’s required. There’s of course annual continuing education requirements. There’s a public disciplinary process. So as we built the designation, we wanted to meet at a minimum, the industry requirements for any credential that’s recognized and credible, but then we wanted to up the standard even beyond that, because we know that it’s so important that we’re holding out people that really are genuinely desiring to bring competent, biblically based financial advice. And that’s what CK is all about.

    Mary Jo:

    Wow, Rob I’m impressed. Did I do all that? Oh, that’s awesome. So some of our listeners, they actually may know the name, Ron Blue, the founder of Kingdom Advisors, and for many years, he and Larry Burkett had another daily radio program that was heard across the nation. They know that Ron and Larry had a major impact, also, on Dave Ramsey, another well-known leader today on financial literacy from a Christian perspective. So as the founder of Kingdom Advisors, Ron Blue has an incredible story. Can you share some of those highlights with our listeners and maybe tell us what he’s up to these days?

    Rob:

    Yeah, I’d be delighted to. Ron is our founding director. Larry Burkett actually is the original founder of Kingdom Advisors, and their two worlds did intersect extensively over the years as they were really leading the charge toward a modern application to biblical principles and personal finance. And they really were the leaders along with Howard Dayton and just a few others. Really, it’s Ron’s vision that came after Larry Burkett’s death that is who Kingdom Advisors is today. And it begins with his personal mission statement, which was to help Christians plan and manage their finances to ultimately fund the great commission. His passion was that Christians, if they managed what God had entrusted to them well – lived within their means and set goals and had some margin in their lives and understood the dangers of debt and tried to limit that, that they could be incredibly generous. And that in that generosity, beyond the local church, they could actually fund the work of the great commission. And Ron did that in building Ronald Blue and Company, which is still today now known as Ronald Blue Trust, one of the largest Christian planning and investment companies and trust companies in the world, but also in building Kingdom Advisors, which after he left that company, he really became the head of Kingdom Advisors until just a few years ago. And really, his vision was this army that we talked about of men and women, like the two of you, who are committed to giving biblically wise, financial advice. Ron’s a prolific author. We in many ways think of him as the father of the Christian financial industry. And that’s a big idea, this idea of a Christian financial industry is something we didn’t really see until just around 2012 as we began to dream about really a true industry of Christian financial advice. And that includes not only advisors like you all who have earned CKAs, but it includes a growing number of services and products for Christians, including investment products. It includes all of the regulators and large firm leaders who are embracing this industry. It includes the Christians that are seeking advisors who can offer values alignment in their financial advice, and it even includes the universities. We have a growing number of Christian universities that are now bringing our training in to teach undergraduate students seeking a degree in financial planning. And they’re getting all this biblical worldview training on the front end. So as they enter the business, they have all the training that you all got years into your careers. And so, that’s a game changer as well, and you put all those pieces together and that’s what we call the Christian financial industry. And Ron really had the original vision for that.

    Rob:

    But today, he’s focused on something called the Ron Blue Institute, which is really that academic and university component of this industry as he’s traveling around the universities and meeting with presidents of Christian universities and helping them catch a vision for how they can bring this biblical worldview of money in for all of their students so they’re graduating with that understanding, but then also building these programs in the business schools to train the next generation of Kingdom Advisors.

    New Speaker:

    I want to tell you, from my own personal standpoint, I was listening to Ron Blue and Larry Burkett back in the late eighties. And they’re really two of the biggest mentors in my life for integrating Christian financial advice. So I must say that. Rob, I know that you have your own radio program now as well called “Money-wise”, which is actually Christian radio’s most popular financial program now, and it’s been on the air for a couple of years. The last I heard your program has over a million listeners on a weekly basis. So tell us about your daily radio program called Money-wise and how that’s going.

    Rob:

    Well, thanks for asking. It’s a real blessing. And actually, the program Money-wise is the legacy program of Larry Burkett. So Larry had a program called Money Matters, and then at Larry’s death, that was transitioned to the author and ministry leader, Howard Dayton, and Howard was the host of the program. It was renamed Money-wise at the time. And then Howard has just recently transitioned out of the role of host and I was named as the successor. And so this really is the legacy radio program of those two giants of the faith that have been so instrumental in my life. So it’s just an incredible honor to sit in that seat every day alongside Steve Moore, my co-host, who was Larry Burkett’s co host back in the early eighties and really just to bring biblical answers to financial questions through today’s media outlets. We bring an encouraging, hopeful message of biblical finance each day on the radio. We’re heard on 1500 radio stations with a program that has three different formats. So each day we have a 60 second Money-wise minute, we have the twenty-five minutes syndicated version of money-wise, and then the one hour live daily program called Money-wise live on the Moody Radio Network. And so when you combine all of that, it’s 1500 radio stations reaching over a million Christians each day, and it’s just so much fun. People invite us into their stories and into their lives through the questions they ask on the air and we get to encourage them. And again, bring them hope, point them back to God’s word, and then provide practical answers to their questions and issues. But I think really one of the distinctions of what we’re building at Money-wise, Mary Jo and Bob, is that we want to not only encourage people on the air as they listen to the program, but we ultimately want to connect them to somebody who can walk with them in their journey. And that’s really two different categories of people. We have our Money-wise coaches, and then we have our Certified Kingdom Advisors, like the two of you. So our Money-wise coaches are there to provide up to 12 weeks to walk with a listener who identifies themselves as wanting to engage in a coaching relationship at no cost and really just help them get on a spending plan, create a debt repayment plan, create a giving plan, learn some of these principles. And they do that free of charge, again, over the internet with video cameras and telephones and so forth. And it’s just a huge blessing to see the thousands of folks that are connecting with a Money-wise coach to get that kind of help on a one-on-one basis. And then of course, those who have been entrusted with more resources and need a professional, either financial planner or investment professional, CPA, or accountant, an estate planning attorney or an insurance professional, then that’s where our CKAs come in. And it makes me feel really good to know that we’re not just giving great advice on the radio and then saying, you go figure it out. We’re able to connect them to somebody who really cares about them, wants them to know God’s way of handling money, and can walk with them in their journey.

    Mary Jo:

    That’s amazing, that hope, providing the hope for listeners and good people that are maybe struggling a little bit with their financial future and putting them on the right course in a biblical way. It’s just a blessing to all of us to understand that. I want to change course just a little bit and talk a little bit about the national conference that Kingdom Advisors hosts every year. It’s an educational conference for advisors, and I have attended for the last two years. And I know Bob’s been many, many times and we always come away deeply inspired by the word of God. You give us great resources to share with our clients. I’ve been a financial advisor for many years in the corporate world, and I’ve been to a lot of national conferences, but never one like Kingdom Advisors and the praise and worship. I mean, it’s mind blowing.

    Bob:

    It is mind blowing. Thousands of financial advisors raising their hands in worship. That is pretty amazing.

    Mary Jo:

    Wow. It’s just incredible. So can you tell our listeners about the conference and why it’s so amazing and what you have planned for the future?

    Rob:

    Well, we love this event. I’ll tell you it’s something we look forward to every year and because of the size and scope of it, it’s become a year round planning effort. We’ve already had three creative team meetings for the 2020 conference. And it feels like we just finished the 2019 conference, but it is incredible. And like you said, it’s nothing like any financial conference that’s out there. And that’s why when people come to it, especially for the first time, they’re just blown away. First of all, to be in a room with that many financial advisors who are all there to grow in their own spiritual journey to worship, to be in community with one another, and to learn how to be better at bringing this biblical financial advice to their clients is just unlike any other gathering that exists. And then you add to it, the fact that it’s the gathering for this Christian financial industry. So there’s 60 exhibitors there, ministries, and organizations dedicated to serving the Christian advisor or the clients of the Christian advisor. It’s a totally unique event. Really the way we program it is from the main stage. It’s all about pouring into the advisor personally in their own spiritual journey. And so the main stage speakers are always Christian pastors and leaders, people like Rick Warren and Louie Giglio and Bob Goff and Alister Bag, and we could just name so many others, but just godly men and women who can just really pour into our attendees in their own journey because we say you can’t take a client where you haven’t been yourself. And so their own spiritual growth is so important. And then the worship and the testimonies that come to the main stage really are critical as well. The breakouts are how we really offer the technical side of delivering biblically wise financial advice.

    Rob:

    And so that’s all about the how tos. And then we throw in a lot of fun along the way. Usually, we’ll have a concert. Steven Curtis Chapman was there last year and Michael W. Smith the year before. We have an incredible concert planned for 2020. I can’t say yet who it is, but I can just tell you, you’re going to be really excited about it. Last year, we had fireworks for the first time. And so, I mean, you can imagine it is a wonderful three day event for 1500. It’s growing by 20% every year financial advisors, and we love putting it on.

    Bob:

    You can carry that with you, also, by the attendance a monthly Bible study that Kingdom Advisors does. We actually host one here in our office for advisors that want to learn more about integrating Christ in their practice. Rob, where do you see Kingdom Advisors going in the next 3, 5, and even 10 years? And then a question behind that is what are some of your favorite stories of advisors changing from a secular worldview of finance to a biblical one?

    Rob:

    Yeah, well, our vision, as I said, is 30,000 Christian financial advisors. And that’s really only about 10% of those who would say their faith is very important to them who hold to a Christian worldview in the financial services industry today. There’s about 300,000 of those that not only attend church regularly, but are also involved in either a small group Bible study or some sort of Sunday school or additional engagement at their local church, which evidences their commitment, but we’re looking for 30,000 really who are the best of the best and really want to focus their professional lives around delivering this Biblical financial advice, and then connected to that vision of 30,000 CKAs is really this growing demand among the Christian public for those advisors. And we look forward to the day that every Christian has access to and is aware of the fact that they can have a financial advisor who shares their values and has been specially trained to offer a biblical approach to finances. In terms of illustration of that, I mean, there are so many. One of the things that I most enjoy about the seat I sit in is I get to hear those testimonies of advisors who say, “Rob, this changes everything. I was tired of helping people build bigger barns. And I now have a different ‘why’ for going to work every day.” The story that comes to mind is an advisor actually in Canada who called me a little while back. And he said, Rob, I asked one question different today in a conversation with a client, and it’s because of Kingdom Advisors and it’s made all the difference. And I said, of course Brad. Tell me more. And he said, well, I had a client who was coming in and it was the conversation in our financial planning process where we deal with the estate and talk about where the money is going to go. And it’s just a normal part of our financial planning process that we do with every client. And so this client came in and said, we all agreed that after everything was settled, there was going to be about $2 million in the estate to pass on. And they had decided that they were going to give a million to each of their two boys. And the advisor said, Rob, because of my training at Kingdom Advisors, I felt like I should ask one additional question that I’ve never asked before. And so he said, what impact do you think that money will have on your boys? And he said, I felt like I was just supposed to be quiet and a minute passed, then 90 seconds, and tears started to come down the wife’s face. And the husband said, well, I can tell you that we’re pretty sure that at least one of them will use it for prostitution. That lead to another 45 minute conversation about the role of this money and what they could do to really help put this in the hands of the boys in a way that wouldn’t impact their spiritual journey and that could actually be a blessing. And so they reconstructed the entire plan over the next several weeks, and the boys are actually now involved in helping them give the majority of it away.

    Bob:

    Oh, that’s a beautiful story.

    Rob:

    It really is. And it really, I think, just illustrates the power of understanding that, as Ron Blue has taught us all, choosing the next steward and determining whether that steward is prepared is one of the critical and ultimately the last stewardship decision we will all make and recognizing that the legacy of a family, the spiritual legacy, is paramount and to the extent that the money could get in the way. And that’s not to say that it’s wrong to give money to your kids as an inheritance, the question is just, are they prepared for it? And what can we do to make sure they’re prepared for it? This perhaps is going to change the legacy of this family forever. I think it’s just a powerful illustration of what we’re talking about.

    Bob:

    I know that Mary Jo and I are always saying on our podcast, you’ve got to pass on wisdom first before you pass on money. If you pass money without passing wisdom, you’re setting your children up for failure.

    Rob:

    Yeah, that’s right.

    Mary Jo:

    So in your answer, Rob, you’ve given us so much about the benefits of working with the CKA, and I don’t mean to use lingo – Certified Kingdom Advisor. So what additional benefits come to mind as clients are seeking out advisors with this type of qualification? How can they find a Certified Kingdom Advisor in their area?

    Rob:

    Well, I think it really comes down to what we talked about earlier, and that is the key is values alignment and recognizing that it’s critical that you understand that the worldview and training of your advisor matters. And not that there’s anything better about a CKA versus a non CKA. It’s really about the differentiators, because there are clear planning differentiators, again, when you lay a biblical worldview on top of financial decision-making. I mean, there’s a completely different focus, first of all, on who owns the money, because we believe that according to Psalm 24:1, “The earth is the Lord’s and everything in it.” So therefore, God owns everything that puts us in a role of steward or caretaker or trustee. So then we should seek to be found faithful as a steward. We understand that we should hold money loosely because it’s not ours in the first place. And by being generous, that will ultimately break the power of money in our lives. We understand that even though the world tells us that our self-worth equals our net worth, that success is not just having a healthy bank account. We should be savers and diligence savers, and we should manage our money wisely, but ultimately our trust should be in God. Well, understanding all of these things is really a critical differentiator for a CKA. And then of course, those very specific areas that give rise to these planning differentiators, a focus on wise giving, a focus as we talked about just a moment ago on legacy planning, and the impact of money on the heirs. All of the differentiators about how we even approach retirement. And what does that look like biblically and what does the Bible say about debt? So I think these are just really important. And then lastly, I would just say the significant rigor associated with the training behind the designation, and then the oversight that we give at Kingdom Advisors. We have a public disciplinary process, which every legitimate designation does, that allows the public to submit complaints. If there ever is any reason they have concern about the advice they’re getting from an advisor or the way an advisor has acted and we have a review committee internally that oversees those. We ultimately have an external review committee of peers, if that’s necessary, and it can involve a revocation of the designation or a censure publicly if necessary. So we really are committed to making sure this is out there to protect the public and can really be positioned as the standard of excellence. So the way find a Certified Kingdom Advisor is you can either go to KingdomAdvisors.com or you can go to the brand new website of Moneywise radio, which is moneywise.org. Just click on find the Certified Kingdom Advisor. And you’ll be able to search by zip code for all of the CKAs in your area, and you’ll get them by proximity to your location.

    Mary Jo:

    Awesome.

    Bob:

    You’ve given us so much of your time today and answered so many questions that we had. I’ll tell you, when I came up with all these questions, Mary Jo and I, it took us about two minutes because we just had so many things we wanted to ask you. So one of my last questions is so much of what Kingdom Advisors inspires in both Christian advisors, as well as Christian clients, is in giving to kingdom causes. And is there anything new on the horizon that our listeners might be inspired by?

    Rob:

    Well, I would just be inspired by the work that God is doing all over the globe. I was just hearing the other day about the fact that the last unreached people group were expected to have a version of the Bible in their own native tongue, I believe it’s in 2035. So this generation will see the great commission fulfilled. And I believe that the Certified Kingdom Advisors we’ve been talking about today will be playing a critical role in the last part of the funding of that work. Not to mention all the other incredible work that’s being done around the globe to reach people in the name of Jesus and meet their needs both locally and abroad. So, I’m just so excited about the literally billions and billions of dollars that will flow into the work of the Lord and kingdom causes being done in the name of Christ to meet real needs and ultimately point people back to a Savior that they ultimately need. And so, I think that’s probably the most exciting thing about what’s happening at Kingdom Advisors today.

    Mary Jo:

    Rob, we want to thank you for taking the time out of your busy day, being a guest on Christian Financial Perspectives. And we want to thank our listeners for tuning in. We’re really excited as Certified Kingdom Advisors to bring this message out there. So any last thoughts you’d like to share?

    Rob:

    Well, let me just say how much I appreciate being invited today. I think the world of the two of you and you all have been such an important part of what we’ve been doing at Kingdom Advisors for a long time and just the work of this podcast and the people that you’re reaching on a monthly basis, not to mention the work you’re doing there in your practice. We’re just so thankful to be aligned with world-class advisors like the two of you. You’re just such a wonderful representation of everything that the Certified Kingdom Advisor designation and Kingdom Advisors as an organization stands for. Let me just say this as I wrap up. There’s something I’ve been thinking about lately, the late Larry Burkett used to say money is the clearest indicator into what’s going on in our lives spiritually. Think about that for a second, the way you spend your money, if you were to hand me your checkbook or print out your financial register from your online account, I can tell you what’s important to you because where we spend our money illustrates and highlights what’s most valuable to us.

    Rob:

    Jesus said that when he said where your treasure is there, your heart will be also. The thing I’ve been thinking about is is my spending an accurate picture of what’s really important to me, what matters most, or if not, do I want to make some changes? I think that’s something that could be a challenge to all of us is just to say, what do we really value? What’s most important to us and does the way we use this resource, this tool God has entrusted to us called money, really reflect accurately what’s most important to us. So I encourage you just to think about that today. And again, thank the two of you so much for the invitation and it’s really a privilege to be with you.

    Bob:

    You’re welcome, Rob. It’s been a privilege.

    [DISCLOSURES]

    Rob West and Kingdom Advisors are not affiliated with Christian investment advisors, Inc. Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

    32 min
  • 37 – Planning for Incapacity Part 2
    On today’s show, Mary Jo is joined again by Ron First of Christian Insurance Services to discuss “Planning for Incapacity” in our 2 part series. In this episode, Mary Jo and Ron discuss protection - primarily long term care planning and ways to cover this expense.
    35 min
  • 37 – Planning for Incapacity Part 2
    Click below to listen to Episode 37 – Planning for Incapacity Part 2
    Planning for Incapacity Part 2

    Check out Part 2 of our “Planning for Incapacity” series focusing on Long Term Care in this episode.

    More episodes >>

    On today’s show, Mary Jo is joined again by Ron First of Christian Insurance Services to discuss “Planning for Incapacity” in our 2 part series. In this episode, Mary Jo and Ron discuss protection – primarily long term care planning and ways to cover this expense.

    Long term care is a very complex topic. In this episode, Mary Jo and Ron cover the basics of long term care and give our listeners a high level overview of the key elements surrounding it. Learn exactly what long term care insurance is, why it’s important, and the best time to get it.

    GUESTS: Ron First of Christian Insurance Services

    HOSTED BY: Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®

     

    * Ron First and Christian Insurance Services are not affiliated with Christian Financial Advisors

    Mentioned In This Episode
    Christian Financial Advisors
    Website
    Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
    Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®
    Ron First
    Linkedin
    Christian Insurance Services
    Website

    Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

    SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENTDid you enjoy this episode? Sign up for email updates and never miss an episode.
    EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

    [INTRODUCTION]

    Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

    Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

    Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

    Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

    [EPISODE]

    Mary Jo:

    “But let all who take refuge in you rejoice, let them sing joyful praises forever. Spread your protection over them, that all who love your name may be filled with joy.” Psalm 5:11. Today, we’re talking about just that, protection. Maintaining their independence is one of the top concerns that our clients share with us. In our last episode, we talked about tools available to help protect your financial independence, as well as your physical independence. We discussed the various estate planning documents that most everyone should have in place. Those include a will; a living will, which is also known as the healthcare directive; a medical power of attorney, which appoints someone to make a healthcare decision on your behalf if you are no longer able to do so; a durable power of attorney, which appoints someone to make financial decisions on your behalf if you are incapacitated; and finally an out of hospital DNR, that’s a do not resuscitate form. Tune in to part one of this series to learn more about the legal documents everyone should have in place and disability insurance and how it can be used to replace your income in the event you become disabled and are no longer able to work. Did you know that we are far more likely to become disabled than we are to die prematurely? These are basic tools to help us control what we can in the case of an unforeseen medical emergency. We’re not always in control, but these are some tools we can make sure we have in place in order to protect our independence. Today, we are going to be discussing long-term care planning and ways to cover this expense. I’d like to welcome back our friend and colleague, Ron First, founder and president of Christian Insurance Services. Welcome Ron.

    Ron:

    Thank you so much, Mary Jo, for having me back discuss such a passionate topic of mine.

    Mary Jo:

    You and me both, Ron. It’s something that’s near and dear to me. And it’s something I’m very passionate about as well. I think some of our listeners may have heard my story about caring for my mother who had a 12 year journey with Alzheimer’s dementia. So I know firsthand how challenging it can be to cover the cost of this type of long-term care.

    Ron:

    I didn’t tell you this, but my mom also passed from Alzheimer’s disease as well. In fact, 5.8 million people are living with Alzheimer’s disease today, and it’s expected by 2050, that number is estimated to rise to 14 million. Today, one in three die from Alzheimer’s or related dementia. And it’s the sixth leading cause of death, even outpacing breast and prostate cancer combined.

    Mary Jo:

    It’s amazing. Those numbers are staggering. So many people say, well, it’s not going to happen to me, but I say the numbers tell a different story, wouldn’t you?

    Ron:

    Oh, definitely. By the end of this year Alzheimer’s and other dementia disease will have cost the nation more than $290 billion. And by 2050, it could be as high as $1.1 trillion. So such realities deserve great public awareness and information. And to be honest with you, Mary Jo, I really wish my industry, the insurance industry, would do a better job in educating the public about what the long-term care insurance they sell actually does and what it’s for.

    Mary Jo:

    I agree with that for sure. It’s definitely a very complex topic. In today’s podcast, we’re going to try and cover the basics and give our listeners a very high level overview of the key elements of long-term care. It’s going to be a fast paced show, but we’re going to do our best to break this down into key points. So buckle up and let’s get started. Ron, first off, what exactly is long-term care insurance and what does this mean for our listeners?

    Ron:

    Well, Mary Jo, long-term care insurance benefits kick in to cover the costs associated with extended care and/or an extended stay in a nursing home or possibly even in a home care setting.

    Mary Jo:

    We’re all aware that healthcare costs are rising rapidly, certainly outpacing inflation. And one of the other things that I think is really important to think about is that due to modern medicine, we are as a society, we’re living longer, sometimes much longer. And our odds of needing assistance as we age are increasing.

    Ron:

    Yeah, absolutely. Long-term care insurance allows you to actually transfer the cost of this very expensive care to a third party and protect you from exhausting all your assets in the process. That in a nutshell is the benefit of long-term care insurance. It’s a form of protection.

    Mary Jo:

    Many people are under the impression that Medicare or Medicaid covers the cost of this type of care, but that’s just not the case, is it?

    Ron:

    That’s right. Mary Jo, there’s a lot of misinformation out there. The fact is Medicare helps to pay for your recovery in skilled nursing care facilities, such as a nursing home, only after a three-day hospital’s stay and only for the first 20 days. Let’s put some numbers to it so you can think of it another way. If the average cost of a semi-private room in a nursing home is 225 days. Multiply that by 20 days, which is the maximum. That’s $4,500. Medicare would cover this assuming it was for care needed after a hospital stay, but after 20 days, Medicare only covers a portion of the daily charge. That will mean you will have to personally pay $170.50 per day. If you have to cover this share for 100 days, the cost would be nearly $14,000. And after 100 days, you’re on your own and Medicare pays zero.

    Mary Jo:

    And an interesting thing is that a lot of seniors have more than one stay in a nursing home or more than one hospitalization. They might have multiple falls or incidents. So it may not just be the one-time that they have to cover those costs. Medicaid is a welfare program funded by folks, federal, and state governments. It’s designed to provide healthcare for the truly impoverished. There are some key points to consider when it comes to understanding Medicaid eligibility for benefits under Medicaid are typically based on an individual’s income and assets and eligibility rules vary by state. Alzheimer’s and dementia, which we usually lump together and use Alzheimer’s as a label, can be all of the different forms of dementia. So for simplification, we’ll refer to that as Alzheimer’s dementia. This can last for years. My mom’s journey was for 12 years. So if you’re covering that big, expensive cost and it drags on and on, it can really devastate a family. Medicaid often becomes necessary when dealing with the cost of caring for someone with Alzheimer’s dementia because of the long-term nature of the illness.

    Ron:

    Oh, absolutely. And the biggest challenge with Medicaid is that it takes away the choice from the family. Medicaid beds are limited, and you may have to settle for a place in a facility that’s not your choice, or that’s not the most ideal place for your loved ones. It may be located across town or in an undesirable neighborhood. Not all communities are Medicaid eligible. In fact, the majority of assisted living facilities and memory care facilities are actually private pay.

    Mary Jo:

    One other thing, Medicaid policies differ by state, but in Texas in general, to be able to get Texas Medicaid program to pay for long-term care, in 2019 a single person’s monthly income cannot be higher than $2,313. A couple’s monthly income cannot be higher than approximately $4,500. The other thing you want to look at is your resources and assets. The resource limit for a single person to qualify for Texas Medicaid is $2,000 and for a married couple who both want to qualify for Medicaid, it’s $3,000. That’s not a lot of goods if you think about it. One good thing is that there is also some property aspects. Your home is not considered an asset as long as it’s worth less than $585,000. Some property does not count towards the resource limit. Other excluded resources include one car. So any assets above the household and the one car are looked at very closely. Ron, I know there’s something about a look back period. Can you talk about that a little?

    Ron:

    Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It’s important to know that the government has instituted what is known as the “five-year look back”. that means that an audit is conducted on a person or a family’s personal assets to ensure that a person hasn’t unloaded their assets intentionally just to qualify for Medicaid benefits. So while it does have a hint of unethical-ness, in one sense, it’s actually perfectly legal and a way to pay for long-term care needs provided that most assets were transferred prior to the feds looking back five years.

    Mary Jo:

    Don’t they call moving assets like that a “Miller’s Trust”?

    Ron:

    Yes, exactly.

    Mary Jo:

    That’s definitely something that you want to work with an estate planning attorney on in order to see what makes sense for your specific situation. So we’ve talked about Medicare and Medicaid, but most people have a Medicare supplement to cover the loophole or the amount that the Medicare doesn’t cover. Will that cover the cost of long-term?

    Ron:

    Well, actually Mary Jo, even the most comprehensive Medigap or Medicare plan does not cover long-term care needs for the elderly. These policies do not pay for assisted livings, Alzheimer’s, custodial care, personal care, nor adult daycare. At best, they supplement nursing home care on a temporary basis and help with hospice coverage. That’s it.

    Mary Jo:

    Wow. Ron, how do people absorb this cost? I know a lot of them can use their savings, but what if the nursing home is for an extended period or in a lot of cases, it’s more than one hospitalization, as I mentioned earlier? I’m sure 100 days or 3 months is wishful thinking in some cases. What is the average time span that a person typically needs long-term nursing care for?

    Ron:

    Yeah, the average long-term care need actually lasts approximately 3.5 years, but it’s increasing every year because of medical breakthroughs that are sustaining life longer. So as we do the math, 3.5 years times 225 days equals $82,000 a year. You multiply that by 3.5 years, you’re at $300,000.

    Mary Jo:

    It just goes so quick.

    Ron:

    Inflation and skyrocketing medical costs also obviously raises the price of care as well. Mary Jo, it’s important to keep in mind that even if you have Alzheimer’s dementia or Parkinson’s or any other debilitating cognitive disease, the average long-term care need then increases to approximately 7.8 years. And most Americans simply do not have $600,000 on hand to pay for that.

    Mary Jo:

    Ron, as a financial planner, I know most of my clients could not afford to pay for this care without liquidating retirement assets. And when that happens, it jeopardizes the savings needed to sustain the surviving spouse. They have to continue to go on living. They still need a roof over their heads and they need to pay for their living expenses and their health care. Maybe they have legacy goals that they want to fulfill as a couple or as an individual. So you certainly don’t want to have to put the surviving spouse at risk. So if Medicare and Medicaid are not options to cover these expenses, what other options for covering long-term care are there?

    Ron:

    Well, there are actually only three ways to cover, or pay for, long-term care needs and you already mentioned the Medicaid as one. The second would be personal savings or perhaps savings or the assets of a rich uncle or a family member that wants to help. But the third way is a long-term care insurance policy. This is something you can purchase well ahead of the actual date you might need protection, assuming you are in relatively good health when you’re purchasing it. Now it goes without saying, just like all types of personal individual insurance, the longer you wait, the older you get, and the older you get, you develop health issues and the price of insurance goes much higher and oftentimes could be price prohibitive. These policies require a health underwriting, and this could become a little more difficult as we age.

    Mary Jo:

    I’m glad you brought that up. That brings us to our next point. I know there are now several types of long-term care insurance policies that are on the market that serve as alternatives to the traditional types introduced back in the 1970s. I know they’ve come a long way.

    Ron:

    Oh, isn’t that the case very much so, Mary Jo.

    Mary Jo:

    Can you walk us through the various types of long-term care policies that are now available?

    Ron:

    Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So the first type is what’s known as the traditional long-term care policy and they came about in the 1970s, approximately, and they have a fixed monthly long-term care dollar benefit that pays for long-term care expenses to a nursing home on an insurance behalf. Unfortunately, there are two Achilles heels associated with the traditional long-term care policy.

    Mary Jo:

    And what are those?

    Ron:

    They are, number one, if you died before the policy ever paid out a penny for long-term care benefits, everything you’ve paid in is actually lost. So that rendered the policy as if it were almost like an automobile policy. Now you pay and pay and if you don’t use the coverage, you’ll lose it. It’s a sunk cost.

    Mary Jo:

    I know that really bothers people. So, that’s something we should think about.

    Ron:

    Yeah. Yeah. The second point in the Achilles heel of traditional long-term care, also, is there’s no way to guarantee the premiums you’re paying now will be the same 10 years from now, and the costs have been skyrocketing and many people are forced to actually surrender their policies without even using them. So, this is a dilemma.

    Mary Jo:

    Knock on wood. We were talking before the show and I’m not seeing any premium increases in my own policy. I certainly know that it is not the norm. I’ve had mine in place for about 10 years now. And luckily, the premiums have stayed steady, but that is certainly not usual in today’s marketplace.

    Ron:

    Yeah, you are quite blessed my friend.

    Mary Jo:

    And I’m knocking on wood!

    Ron:

    Actually, there used to be hundreds of long-term care carriers, traditional long-term care carriers, in the market. There are only a handful now. You happen to have one of those handful of carriers. So, you’re very blessed.

    Mary Jo:

    Let’s just hope it stays that way.

    Ron:

    Yes. But you’re going to realize some increases for sure. As the need for other long-term care settings have expanded through the years, like these two Achilles heels, the insurance industry has kind of risen to the occasion and they’ve come up with more robust policies. So due to the constraints of the traditional long-term care insurance sales, that was even more imperative for them to come up with policies that would take care of these two deficits, the rising premiums and use it or lose it. And the way they’ve done that is they’ve creatively linked it to a life insurance policy.

    Mary Jo:

    Oh, that’s interesting.

    Ron:

    Yeah. So this way, if you die before you use your long-term care benefits, there’s a death benefit to the family.

    Mary Jo:

    There’s always some benefit no matter what happens, and you’re not losing all the money that you’ve paid in. So I can certainly see how that writer makes it more user-friendly. That’s especially true for those individuals that hate paying for something that they may never use, yet those same people will buy car insurance. They buy homeowner’s insurance in case their house ever catches on fire, and hopefully they’ll never use that either. Long-term care is really not that much different.

    Ron:

    Exactly. By the way, we call this second type of long-term care life insurance with a long-term care rider, by the way, for the listening audience out there, a rider is a contractual benefit that’s added to a base policy. In this case, the base policy acts like a life insurance plan and the rider is added to it. Think of it like buying an entree and adding a side to your meal. So just to keep in mind if the policy holder needed long-term care benefits first, the base life insurance policy would in essence speed up or accelerate the death benefit portion of the policy and pay for the long-term care need. That’s why this policy is known as the life insurance with long-term care rider, but it’s also known as an accelerated death benefit rider. And it could be used for qualified, long-term care needs. While the second type of policy rectified the ‘use it or lose it” deficit and has premiums that will not increase, its weakness is that if the person needs the long-term care benefits first, those benefits would eat up the death benefit. Depending upon the policy contract, there could be also a ceiling of money to pay for long-term care expenses, and if the dollar amount of these benefits were used up on long-term expenses, there would be no benefit left for the surviving.

    Mary Jo:

    I look at it as a bucket of money that can be used for either or, but not both. Or if you don’t use it at all for one, then you can use the remainder for the other.

    Ron:

    Absolutely. And that’s what led to the third type of long-term policy. And that’s known as a hybrid policy. While a hybrid is also constructed on a whole life insurance platform, what we call it in the business, the whole life chassis, it behaves very differently though. This policy emphasizes the longterm care aspect as the primary function and the death benefit as a secondary. As a result, the longer the person lives without triggering a long-term care event, the cash value that’s in the policy accumulates and actually can go towards even a larger long-term care benefit. It accumulates. It’s important to note this product typically has a five to seven year duration of benefits, and both long-term care and death benefit can be robust depending upon the policy. Oh, by the way, which brings to remembrance. There’s one carrier out there that will actually write a lifetime long-term care coverage benefit. That’s incredible. We said earlier that three to five years is your average long-term care benefit need, but with Alzheimer’s or cognitive disease, it’s five to seven, but because people are living longer, this very unique product can be very, very desirable for someone who knows they have Alzheimer’s in their family.

    Mary Jo:

    So you’re going to have to determine whether or not your primary need is life insurance or your primary need is long-term care. Is that right?

    Ron:

    Exactly. So when people come to me, I counsel them and I ask them, what’s your focus? What do you really want?

    Mary Jo:

    What are you going to solve for first?

    Ron:

    Exactly. So if they’re really looking for life insurance, but also have that longterm care as an after thought or a possibility, then we want to look at the many policies that are on the market for the life insurance with a long-term care rider. But if they have cognitive issues, disease, Alzheimer’s dementia in the family, they know this. Then we want to look at something that has a five to seven year or even beyond that and look at the hybrid.

    Mary Jo:

    Well, that makes sense, Ron. Would it be a fair assumption that the traditional long-term care policy is the least expensive compared to the life insurance policy with the long-term care rider or even the hybrid type of policy that you mentioned?

    Ron:

    Oh, most definitely. Absolutely. You get what you pay for. The life insurance with long-term care and the hybrid have so many more bells and whistles in the policy and you actually pay for that.

    Mary Jo:

    What are the most important we should keep in mind when considering a longterm care policy?

    Ron:

    Great question, Mary Jo. There are some key components that are common to all long-term care insurance, regardless of which of the three types of policies that you purchase. There are four main factors to be considered. Number one, the duration of the benefits and how long they will last for, the amount of monthly or daily benefit that will be paid out for the long-term care benefits itself, and remember that there’s a waiting period or what we call an elimination period. And then you have to weigh whether you want a reimbursement type plan or an indemnity payout plan.

    Mary Jo:

    Ron, that’s a lot to consider. Can you talk through that in layman’s terms for our listeners?

    Ron:

    Yeah. Again, the duration is just like a term policy. You can get a 10 year policy, a 20 year policy, or a 30 year policy. That’s the duration of the actual long-term care benefit. Of course, as I said before, the amount of the daily payout or monthly payout is what will be paid out. We said earlier that typically it costs $225 a day for a semi-private room or $6,750 a month for longterm care. You’d want to build that into the amount that you would need. The waiting period is how long you have to wait before the long-term care benefits kick in or there’s a triggering event. And that’s typically 0, 30, 60 or 90 days of waiting, which you would have to fund before the policy starts paying. And finally, I mentioned the reimbursement care versus the indemnity, the reimbursement long-term care insurance policies pay benefits based upon the actual expenses you incur, the indemnity plan pays a monthly cash benefit regardless of the expense incurred. So, there could be some cash left over after you’ve paid the nursing home or the facility that you’re at and that cash could actually be used for other areas.

    Mary Jo:

    I have a question. Who do they typically pay the benefits to?

    Ron:

    Well, it all depends. The indemnity plan will pay the cash to you and then you have to pay the provider or the nursing home. Whereas the reimbursement can go either way, but typically you sign, or your caregiver signs, the permission for the insurance company to pay the reimbursement direct to the facility.

    Mary Jo:

    You mentioned the waiting period. Is 90 days the standard?

    Ron:

    Not so much the standard, Mary Jo, but typically 60 to 90 days is the most popular waiting periods that I see and that we work with.

    Mary Jo:

    What are the things that actually trigger the benefits of those payments? How do you qualify for them?

    Ron:

    Yeah. The government has identified six activities of daily living. We call those ADL’s. The six ADL’s include bathing, dressing, eating, toileting, transferring, and continence. So in order for the benefits to start being paid, at least two of those have to be triggering events.

    Mary Jo:

    In other words, they can’t do those things by themselves and they need assistance. Most of the time they need cues. They forget how to bathe. They can’t dress themselves. A lot of times they can’t feed themselves. Incontinence becomes an issue. They often need help transferring from the bed to a wheelchair and back and forth. Isn’t that right?

    Ron:

    Yes, exactly. And it’s important to know also that severe Alzheimer’s or dementia or even Parkinson’s can also trigger long-term care benefits as well.

    Mary Jo:

    What about the families that really want to be able to provide care in their home? Are home health care benefits important?

    Ron:

    Oh, absolutely. And great point that you brought that up. In fact, statistics show that 50% of all long-term care claimants prefer this setting, actually. This feature is typically included in the base policy of all three types of long-term care we’ve already discussed.

    Mary Jo:

    We’ve covered a lot today, but it’s a complex topic. I think there are a few more key things that are really important when it comes to long-term care policy.

    Ron:

    Absolutely. As I said before, there are lots of options or what we call riders that are available to add to base policies. And it’s important that the listening audience understands that the ones I’m going to mention are probably the most important, but there are several more that we don’t have time for. The first one is called a waiver of premium rider. That’s a very, very important consideration. When you go on long-term care benefits, the waiver of premium rider would actually cancel the payment of premiums. So if you’re paying monthly, you wouldn’t have to pay anymore. That’s a very, very important rider.

    Mary Jo:

    I could see how that would be beneficial for the owner of the policy. It does make sense.

    Ron:

    Absolutely. The last thing you want to be doing as you’re dealing with this emotionally and you want to be paying an insurance company. You may have been paying for so many years already. So that’s a pretty important one. Another important one is the inflation rider, critical to the long-term care policy because we know that the inflation and the cost of long-term care is increasing astronomically. So typically, an insurance policy will offer a 3% or a 5% compounding annual inflation protection. And that keeps adding every year to the amount of insurance that you have. It’s kind of like a piggy bank in a sense.

    Mary Jo:

    When we do financial planning for clients, we typically look at inflation at about 2.5%, But when it comes to healthcare costs, we may inflate that 6-7% because they’re rising so much faster than any other expenses that we have.

    Ron:

    Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We alluded to this earlier, Mary Jo, and we’ve talked about the nursing home versus the home itself. We call this flexible venues and caregivers. And we also know that sometimes there are very skilled people that are taking care of our loved ones – nurses. Sometimes, there are unskilled people. We want to make sure that the policy, that the rider that’s added to the policy, allows for payment to your choice, where you want to send your loved one – to a nursing home or do you want to take care of that person at home where they feel more comfortable.

    Mary Jo:

    You have formal and informal caregivers. If a family member wants to get certified to be a caregiver, there is a way for that to happen, then they can get paid for their services. Is that correct?

    Ron:

    Absolutely correct. And that’s where that indemnity type of plan would probably be more beneficial. The other important rider would be to make sure, or not so much a rider, but the pricing of the plan, do they give discounts for couples? And is there a couples pricing? So even though you can have a couple that both want to purchase a policy, there would be a discount, but you can have a married couple that gets a discount even though that one person is only buying the policy, because the fact that they’re married. The insurance company knows there’s a chance that that loved one would take care of that person.

    Mary Jo:

    Is there such a thing as a shared policy where it could cover one or the other?

    Ron:

    Absolutely. And that’s where we have the pooled money rider. It’s another important rider that needs to be looked at and considered. If one needs it and the other doesn’t, let’s say one passes away, that money can be doubled up for one person. Very important.

    Mary Jo:

    Is there a sweet spot in your lifetime for buying long-term care insurance?

    Ron:

    Great question. And the answer is yes. Research shows that the sweet spot or the best time to buy long-term care insurance is typically between the ages of 50 to 64. You may ask yourself, well, why is this well, think about it. The mortgage is typically paid off between this period. The kids are grown. They’re out of the house. Although though today, that can be a different story.

    Mary Jo:

    I hear they come back, but I think that’s a topic for another podcast.

    Ron:

    Retirement assets have typically been built up. They’ve accumulated during this time span. And also life insurance policies are either paid up or if someone purchased a 24 or 30 year term policy, they typically end at this point. So this makes it the most opportune time to buy long-term care. However, if you know there are some genetics in your families that are not good, it would make sense to buy this before the fifth year period.

    Mary Jo:

    So paying for long-term care, it’s pretty expensive, but there’s some creative ways that you can cover the purchase of long-term care. Can you run through some of those for us?

    Ron:

    Oh, absolutely. Great question. There are so many different types of policies on the market now. And depending upon the type that you aspire to, you want to purchase, you can use cash savings. You can use required minimum distributions. If you’re over 70 and a half, and you’re getting these from your IRA or 401k, they could be designated to pay for long-term care or a portion of it. Also, you may have cash value life insurance that you paid for all your life. You can actually do a 1035 exchange. We would think of that as a rollover, but it’s called an exchange and you can actually move from one insurance company that you use for your life insurance and just exchange it over to a brand new plan with a long-term care annuity. You could also use an annuity to pay it in full, or you can use a stream of income from that annuity to cover the cost of longterm care premiums. So, there’s many ways to pay. You can even use an IRA, which is a qualified.

    Mary Jo:

    If you use money out of an IRA, you want to make sure that you talk with your tax advisor. And if it’s IRA money that’s funding the policy, that is money that has never been taxed, so the long-term care benefit becomes taxable income. Isn’t that correct, Ron?

    Ron:

    Absolutely correct. That would be very, very wise. And with the mixing of the life insurance and the investment in a plan, it can get a little complicated. So, you definitely want to work with your tax professional and your advisor on the tax ramifications.

    Mary Jo:

    How can they pay for long-term care premiums?

    Ron:

    Well, we would call that the mode of payment. You can pay monthly. You can pay quarterly, bi-annually, annually. You can pay in full with a lump sum. We can pay it at a number of set years. We call it a 10 year pay, a 20 year pay. So there’s lots of options out there.

    Mary Jo:

    And what about the tax deductibility of the premiums?

    Ron:

    I say this with a grain of salt. Typically, the long-term care benefit premium actually can be tax deductible. You may want to speak to the actual amount as a financial planner, but the benefits, of course, on any life insurance plan are tax-free when you take them out. Likewise, the longterm care.

    Mary Jo:

    In 2019, the IRS has changed that. They made a duct only the amount of the total unreimbursed, allowable medical care expenses for the year that exceed 10% of their adjusted gross income. For example, if your adjusted gross income is $100,000, your total medical expenses may have to be over $10,000. So this is another good reason to consult your tax advisors.

    Ron:

    Absolutely.

    Mary Jo:

    We’ve covered a lot today. Thanks again for joining us, Ron. If you have questions, give us a call at Christian Financial Advisors or you can find more resources on our podcast website christianfinancialpodcast.com. Assessing the need for long-term care insurance is an important part of the financial planning process. The tremendous economic impact of paying for such care should be measured against available resources. Some families are equipped to pay for this, and some aren’t. If you need care, what effect will this have on your estate, your legacy goals, and what you want to leave to the next generation. Also, consider whether to purchase long-term care insurance either privately or through an employer benefit if it’s available to you. You want to make sure that you’re making these decisions while you are still healthy. Once a disabling condition occurs, it’s too late to take action. One of the last things I want to leave you with is to remember that there is no perfect long-term care policy. It just doesn’t exist. It’s not a one size fits most situation. We always want to encourage you to talk to your licensed insurance agent, someone who is very knowledgeable in the long-term care area. Thanks for staying with us. We know we’ve covered a lot today, and we really value our listeners.

    [DISCLOSURES]

    Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

    35 min
  • 36 – Planning for Incapacity Part 1 of 2
    On today’s show, Bob and Mary Jo are joined with Ron First of Christian Insurance Services to discuss in a 2 part series on how to plan for incapacity. Who doesn’t want that? So listen to this episode to learn about an extremely important topic and one you should pay special attention to no matter what stage of life you are in.
    35 min

About Christian Financial Perspectives

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Biblical wisdom for financial decisions and goals. Conversations about managing money according to Christian principles, featuring expert insights on budgeting, investing, giving, and building wealth…

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