Christian Financial Perspectives

What are you thankful for this Thanksgiving?

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As Thanksgiving approaches, Bob and Mary Jo share their personal stories about what they are grateful and thankful for and the importance of always having a thankful attitude. No matter what stage of life you are in or what circumstances have affected you, having a thankful spirit can make a huge difference when it comes to a positive mindset, even if it’s just being thankful for tiny things.

As Christians, we have so much to be thankful for as well because we know this life on earth of just a very tiny percentage of the eternal life we have through Christ.

HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

[INTRODUCTION]

Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

[EPISODE]

Bob: So here we are. Welcome to our Thanksgiving podcast. I can’t believe it’s that time of the year already, but it’s time to show your thankfulness and to be thankful for all the things that God has given you. And today, before we start out the podcast, you know we always love to start with a scripture. So we picked Psalms 106:1-5 to start off today’s podcast. Here’s what it says. “Praise the Lord, give thanks to the Lord for he is good, his faithfulness and love endures forever who can list the glorious miracles of the Lord. Who can ever praise him enough. There is joy for those who deal justly with others and always do what is right. Remember me, Lord, when you show favor to your people. Come near and rescue me. Let me share in the prosperity of your chosen ones. Let me rejoice in the joy of your people. Let me praise you with those who are your heritage.”

Mary Jo: Man, Bob, 2019 – what a year. It’s been quite a roller coaster. There’s been a lot of turmoil, but yet there’s been so much to be thankful for. As we approach the Thanksgiving holiday, I’m reminded of just how important it is to be grateful and to be thankful because we have so many blessings.

Bob: You know, we really do, Mary Jo. We have so many. We don’t realize it, living in America, how many we have so many times.

Mary Jo: We definitely take them for granted, that’s for sure. I tend to be a glass half full type of person. What do you think?

Bob: I think you are, and I try to be that way, too, because I’ll tell you, it’s not any fun to look at when it’s half empty.

Mary Jo: No, I feel like I’ve trained myself to expect the best, the best possible outcome in just about every situation. Just having that mindset, it’s a great way to put positive karma out there in the universe, except for last night.

Bob: I know, I know. I love you, Mary Jo. Go for it.

Mary Jo: We’re not supposed to time ourselves, but we’re recording this the night after the Astros’ lost the World Series. So, I tried to put positive karma out there.

Bob: That was a little depressing, but life goes on. You gotta realize though, if you were from the Nationals team, it was a really great day.

Mary Jo: Well, this is true. Yeah. And there’s always next year.

Bob: You Got it.

Mary Jo: So there you go. By thinking positive, more good happens than bad, at least it seems that way to me. I always try to focus everything with a positive attitude and it makes life better all the way around.

Bob: It sure does.

Mary Jo: I have a little sign on a shelf in my bathroom that I look at each morning when I’m getting ready and it’s “start each day with a grateful heart”. It’s a great way to start the day and it’s just a gentle reminder. Do you have anything like that that kind of helps spur you on when you need it?

Bob: No, I don’t, but I agree with you definitely. I remember as a kid growing up though, I had this little sign and my grandmother loved Oral Roberts. Do you remember Oral Robert from a long time ago? She just loved him. There was a little sign that said “expect a miracle” and there was another one said “something good is going to happen to you today”.

Mary Jo: Oh, there you go.

Bob: I remember I’d go to her house and she’d watch it on TV and it’s sing “something good is going to happen to you”. You know, I’m not going to sing. I don’t have a good voice for that, but happened to you this very day. My dad was that way too. He was a very strong positive thinker and it really helped him. It helped our family cause it just doesn’t do any good to look at it the other way.

Mary Jo: Absolutely. And that kinda just reminds me, you started off with a scripture, but there’s another one that I’ve always liked and it’s from the first book of Thessalonians 5:16-18, “Always be joyful, never stop praying. Be thankful in all circumstances, for this is God’s will for you who belong to Jesus Christ.” And on that note, I just thought it would be fun to take time on this week’s episode of Christian Financial Perspectives to actually share our gratitude list with our listeners. You think that’s going to make for a good show, Bob?

Bob: Absolutely. I think it’s always good to be thankful. You know, and I liked that from first Thessalonians 5:18 it says, “Be thankful in all circumstances,” because, you know, some of our listeners may not be going through the best circumstances right now, but try to be thankful and realize it’s all in eternity. You know, if you’ve got Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, you really have nothing to fear and I know that’s easier said than done, but it’s always good to be thankful no matter what circumstances you’re in, and there’s something that you can be thankful for, if not the very fact that you’re just alive and still able to take a breath.

Mary Jo: That’s right.

Bob: As Christians, we do have so much to be thankful for as well because we know that life on this earth, it’s a very small, tiny percentage of the eternal life that we’re going to have through Christ.

Mary Jo: Well, and there’s always eternity to be thankful for, assuming we’re all right with the Lord and we’ve given our life and our heart to him and lived accordingly. That is always something amazing to be grateful for and thankful for and looking forward to.

Bob: Well, I’ll tell you what. I’m thankful for that grace, cause I need a lot of it.

Mary Jo: Yeah, absolutely. I need a lot of it.

Bob: I remember our pastor in our church one time, he took a tape measure and he went from the very front all the way to the back of the sanctuary. We have a pretty big church. It’s one of those mega churches and I think it’s probably a 100 to 120 feet between the front and the back. And he came and he said, “You realize in eternity, your life is only like a 16th of an inch on this entire tape measure.” So that made a difference. I listed seven things that I’m thankful for. One of the things is, especially this year, my wife Rachael, as many of you’ve heard me talk about on the podcast, last year, she had cancer. Actually, two years ago is when we found the cancer. She went for chemo and radiation and then last year, in 2018, the cancer came back. She had to have a radical 8 hour surgery in July of 2018 to remove it.

Mary Jo: I can’t believe it’s been that long.

Bob: I know. It has been that long. So you know what we’re thankful for. We’re thankful that this year she’s had no recurrence of her cancer. You know, we’ve had to go through every six months. So we’ve had two checkups this year. We just had one a few weeks ago at MD Anderson, came back, and everything was clear. That’s so much to be thankful for. And we praise God for every day because you know, you never know when that cancer could come back. None of us know. So we have to praise God for every day that he’s given us. We’re also thankful that we’ve had our first grand baby. He was born last year and this is his first full year he’s going to have. And we’ve watched him grow up and we’re thankful that we get to see him almost daily. It’s like the old saying that you’ve heard every grandparent say, if I knew it was this much fun, I’d have had the grandchildren first. You know, and I know why they say that, you know, because when they’re good, you can play with them and love on them, but when they start to be cranky or get a dirty diaper, you can just hand them back. Yeah.

Mary Jo: Ah, that’s how it works, I think. Uh, unless it’s the weekend that they’ve left them with you and they’ve bailed the coop.

Bob: We haven’t had one of those yet.

Mary Jo: Oh, okay. They’re coming.

Bob: And another thing I’m thankful is my adult children, they’re doing well. And that’s the great thing. If you have children and they’re doing well, praise the Lord for it. But you know, I know some of you that are listening, you may not have this same thing going on, but still try to be thankful that they’re still here. I’m really thankful for the staff I have here at work that has become so much like family to me. Cause you know, some have been here a long time. I mean, Nathaniel’s been with me for nearly 17 years and Kirsten’s been with me for 14 or 15 years. They’ve watched me grow old, and it’s just so humbling that I get to come to work every day and have such a staff that all love the Lord. And I’m thankful for that because a lot of people don’t have that. So that’s something to be thankful for. And along with that, I’m thankful for so many clients because they’re like family, too. Over the years we’ve just walked through life together. About 90% of our clientele are strong believers in the Lord, so they’re brothers and sisters in Christ. I get to stay at their homes when I go out of town, you know? And it’s just so much fun. So, you can tell the glass is half full and that’s just awesome.

Mary Jo: I feel the same way. I just wanted to stop you here for just a second, Bob. I’m also very grateful for the staff at the office at CIS and you know, they do so much to support us each day, every day and the way they take such great care of your clients and my clients or our clients. Each and every one of them, they are a gem. So you’ve done a great job of hiring and I’m grateful for them, as well, and absolutely best possible clients. It’s so awesome to do life with them.

Bob: Oh, thank you. Thank you. That means a lot. Okay, so I’ve got a couple more here I want to share. I’m also thankful for you, Mary Jo, you put up with a crazy guy in me. Especially, you know, I could not pull off all of these podcasts like, I mean I can’t believe it. I don’t know which one this was is when we come out. I think it’s going to be podcast number 60 or 61, and I think I’d be maybe podcast number 15 without you.

Mary Jo: Well, thank you.

Bob: Oh gosh, y’all don’t know me. I mean, but a lot of you do. But you know I’m very high energy and I’m all over the place.

Mary Jo: Is that what you call it?

Bob: I don’t know, what do you call it, haha? But you help keep me on task on the podcast, too, cause I’ll start the go off on rabbit trails everywhere, you know? So thank you for that. And most importantly, I am thankful for my relationship with Jesus Christ and that joy that he gives me from having that relationship with him. I just, I cannot imagine living as a non Christian without so many brothers in Christ all around me in my church, my men’s group. Everywhere I go, I meet brothers and sisters in Christ. This morning, I had a guy come out and measuring our new home to put gutters on it. He’s a brother in the Lord and we just talked about Jesus for, you know, about an hour. And we talked about the gutters for about 15 minutes, so that was fun. So Mary Jo, those are a lot of things, and I want to hear your list cause I know you have quite a list here, too. And hopefully as people listen to this, they start thinking, “Yeah, you know, I’m thankful for some of those same things.”

Mary Jo: I’m sure we are. And I think one of the things that’s just so important is to actually pause and take time to reflect on it. I think in our hearts we’re all thankful, but we really need to focus on that more. Bob, there’s so much that I’m thankful for. I’ve got a few things that I’d like to highlight, some interesting things that are going on in my life. But first, like you, I want to give praise and thanks to my heavenly father who’s given us so much, given me so much. I’m grateful for his favor, his guidance, and his word that serves as a map on how to live our best life. And without my faith I’d have nothing, so I’m grateful for that first and foremost.

Bob: Amen. Amen.

Mary Jo: After reviewing my list, I realized some of what’s on there, it couldn’t happen or may have had a very different outcome if I had not learned a very important lesson first. So that lesson is what I am most truly thankful for.

Bob: Well, I want to hear what that lesson was.

Mary Jo: Okay. So, we encounter so many events that are teaching moments when it comes to integrating our faith and our finances. And for me, one of the most important lessons I’ve learned is the importance of establishing a substantial emergency fund. And I know I said important in there a couple of times because I’m just so passionate about it. As I get through my list, you’ll understand why. I’m thankful that you and I, as host of this weekly podcast, Christian Financial Perspectives, have the opportunity to help others and share what we’ve learned in both our professional capacity as financial advisors as well as in our personal lives, walking the same walk as everyone else. I’m very grateful for that.

Bob: We do. We walk beside them. People don’t know that, but our podcast is made by walking through life with people. So that’s why it comes out on the program

Mary Jo: Across the globe, across the country, across the great state of Texas, and you know, in our local communities, there’s so much going on. This week, we’ve been impacted by mother nature once again. In that regard, I’m very thankful that I live in the home of the brave and the land of the free. So the first thing I want to share is how thankful I am to our first responders across this country. As I’m working on our outline and we’re getting ready today for the show and the podcast, reading more about those fires in California and how they’re burning out of control once again. And I just pray that everyone in their paths stay safe and everyone, including the first responders, they’re quickly out of harm’s way. But I am just so grateful that there are people willing to risk their lives every day for the safety of others.

Bob: You know, when I see a policeman or fireman, I always like to go up to them and say thank you for your service. They never say, well, who are you? They always say thank you.

Mary Jo: Those that have the inner courage to run toward danger and not flee at the expense of others. So, to our men and women in uniform that are listening, whether it’s a military uniform, a fireman’s uniform, police uniform, emergency technicians uniform, and EMT or what have you, I salute you and just want to say thank you for your service to our country and our communities. On that same note, I’m also very grateful to our many freedoms we take for granted and those that the men and women in uniform fight for every day. As a woman, I’m grateful that I live in a country where I always have a choice. Not every woman does. So ladies, let’s be thankful for that. As I approached my list, a lot has happened this year, most of which I don’t know that I’ve shared with our listeners, but I thought today’s episode would be a good day to do that. And you touched on it with Rachael and your situation. So, I think what I’m most grateful for are the people at MD Anderson and how much they do for the patients that they serve, as well as the families that they serve.

Bob: I can relate to this as you know, because Rachael was an MD Anderson patient.

Mary Jo: Absolutely. So it impacts a lot of us, unfortunately. I lost my younger brother, Ken, at the age of 59 to diffuse gastric cancer earlier this year, and my older brother, Mike, has stage IV liver cancer and lung cancer. Again, he’s a very young age of 64. Needless to say, it’s been a very tough year for my family and I mentioned their ages because I know a lot of our clients as well as our listeners, they fall into this age range. This is one of the main reasons why I talked about having such a substantial emergency fund. You never know when this is going to hit you, but it comes with deep price tag.

Bob: Yeah, it does.

Mary Jo: We’re so fortunate to have savings to be able to help, but it also gives us choices.

Bob: Well, I want to say Mary Jo, thank you for sharing that. This is what a podcast is so deep about and good about is we can share our heart, and people need to know what you’re going through so that they can lift you up and your family.

Mary Jo: Well, thank you Bob, and it’s not with a heavy heart that I wanted to bring this out. It’s actually with a very joyful heart because they do so much good. There are wonderful cancer centers all over the country, but there’s one that is extremely good that’s right in our own backyard in Houston, and they’ve done such a fabulous job of making patients comfortable, as well as informed as possible. My brother, Ken, that I spoke about, he was actually on staff at MD Anderson. He had a PhD in cancer research. Knowing everything he did, doing all the good work he did to fight and research cancer, it didn’t stop him from getting cancer. So I’m going to give a little background, so I just ask our listeners to be patient with me as I kind of go through this, but I think it’s a real, real important message. My family has learned a lot about how some cancers have a genetic component and can run in families and that’s what we have learned a whole lot more than we ever wanted to know this year. My grandfather was a carrier for what’s known as a CDH1 Mutation. We all have a CDH1 gene, Bob, but some of us are carriers of a mutation, and there are other mutations that cause other types of cancer, but this is just the one that my family is dealing with right now. So my grandfather was the carrier who passed it to my mother who passed it to my brothers. It definitely runs in families. Thankfully, my sister and I have tested negative to the mutation, but my brothers were not so lucky. They both had the mutation and, as such, their kids have a 50/50 chance of getting it. Now, we’re working with the younger generation. So my siblings, I don’t have any children, but you know my nieces and my nephews and their children in determining whether they decide they want to get tested or not. My mom was the youngest of 11, so there are a lot in that generation to be considered, and this has already impacted several of my second cousins who were only in their forties

Bob: You know, as I listened to this Mary Jo, really it tells me the importance of getting screenings and finding out what your family history is. Now, you can do that with all the DNA testing and everything so that you beat this thing by getting to know about it in advance versus after.

Mary Jo: That brings me to my next point, but you’re absolutely right, Bob. You know, I’ve mentioned how much we’ve learned this year and this is why I just wanted to start my list with being thankful for my personal relationship with my savior, as well as the lesson of maintaining a substantial emergency fund. We never know when something like this will impact us or our loved ones. Needless us to say, the medical bills for my brothers have been piling up. It has such a huge impact on the family, especially the ones left behind. That’s another reason why I’m so passionate about planning. This brings me to the next item on my list. In my mind, as a Certified Financial Planner, all roads lead to planning. I know Bob laughs at me a lot, but you got to live for today, but plan for tomorrow. And I’m also thankful that in 2019, we’re able to take advantage of things like genetic testing that can help us make more informed decisions about our healthcare. This science, it’s amazing. And I know that in our listeners’ minds, some of them may say, “Yeah, but.” Well, it definitely has its good and bad aspects. So do we always want to know? There is a cost of knowing, but there’s also a cost and not knowing.

Bob: There is that. And you know, Rachael’s mom had the same, close to the same, kind of cancer Rachael had. And if we had just detect the this three years ago, there’s so much of this we wouldn’t have had to go through and we didn’t know. So if anybody’s listening to our program today, Mary Jo.

Mary Jo: Get tested.

Bob: Exactly, exactly.

Mary Jo: Know what your options are, and that is the benefit. The earlier it can be found, the more options you have and the more chance of curing it. That’s our message. And I’m grateful for the good folks that have helped. So we’ve got a few more rough months and hopefully more time, but only God knows. I’m also thankful, on another note, I wanted this to be such an upbeat program, but you know, I think there’s so much potential out there now. I’m also thankful for those fighting for brain health for life, and I know this resonates with so many of our listeners out there, those at the Alzheimer’s association and other similar groups, including a gentleman named Ken Dychtwald. He owns a company called Age Wave. As I’ve shared on earlier podcast episodes, I lost my mom in 2017 after 12 years fighting Alzheimer’s battle, and it’s a horrible disease. I also continue to volunteer in order to share what I’ve learned with others to help them navigate this road. I’m thankful for all the people that are continuing to fight this fight and look for a cure, and I just wanted to share a couple of recent statistics that I’ve come across. Did you know Bob, we are about to have 1 billion people in the United States impacted by this awful disease?

Bob: No, I didn’t realize it was that high. Oh wow.

Mary Jo: Yes.

Bob: I was just thinking, cause you were just telling me about your mom, and just last night in my men’s group at my church, his mom’s going through this right now and it’s just so sad to see what is happening.

Mary Jo: Yeah, it’s terrible and there’s so much that we focus on, but this is huge, and it’s being ignored at the highest levels. Here’s another statistic that’s quite interesting – somewhere between one and two or one in three, depending on which study you look at, at those age 85 or older will be impacted by some form of dementia. So that’s pretty much about half.

Bob: Yeah, that is a lot.

Mary Jo: It’s a good cause, and I just urge our politicians to really wake up and start doing something about this. Last but not least, I’m very thankful for Mike, my husband of 37 years. And if you’ve been listening to our podcast, you know he’s a good sport. He takes the brunt of a lot of our jokes here on the show, but he’s been putting up with me for a long time, my snarky sense of humor, and he’s been making it easy for me to continue to do the work that I love to do. He’s doing life with me, and I’m grateful for that. So, thank you, sweetie.

Bob: So I love this next thing that you’re going to share. You take the word “THANKS” and you have something behind each letter there.

Mary Jo: Exactly. So we’ve been talking about our thankful and our gratitude list for the year. One of the things it’s kind of reminded me to actually execute on something that I’ve been meaning to do for a while. You and I’ve talked about it in the past, and it’s creating a gratitude jar. It’s been popular for a while now, but there are 6 easy steps you can follow. As you mentioned, you take the word THANKS. It starts with a T; think about what you’re grateful for. H; have an open mind. A; allow yourself to feel gratitude. N; note your gratitude. Write it down. K; keep it in a jar or other special place. It certainly doesn’t have to be a jar. And then S; share it with someone else. We talked about this in my Bible study group, and my approach was to create a jar, leave it in a prominent place on the shelf in the dining room, and with a marker and a stack of sticky notes right there. So each time my husband and I, we have something that we’re thankful for, we’re gonna write it down and put it in the jar. And then on December 31st of each year, sit down and review the notes. This way you’re ending the year with a grateful heart for the many blessings we have in our lives. And you know, if there’s some particular idea that you really like, you can put it back in the jar and keep it in there. I think that’s kind of awesome. So it’s a popular idea for several years now. I’ve heard others talk about it, there’s books about it, but I haven’t executed, but I’m on it now. There’s also some kits you can buy, which I thought were pretty interesting. So some customized versions available. And I just thought these would make great wedding gifts and great for young adults in your life – college kids, you know, really help get them started on a gratitude mindset.

Bob: That is a great idea. You remember a few weeks ago we went to that conference in Austin and we had that great speaker that he spoke about doing that same thing? They took a fish bowl and they put some cards beside it and did this. And every day you write down three new things that you’re thankful for. So three new things. That’s the big key is new things.

Mary Jo: It may take you a minute, but there’s always something, even if you’re just thankful for the breath you breathe.

Bob: Oh exactly. And you put that on a small piece of paper and you put it in a fish bowl, and he challenged everyone that day to do that for a 60 to 90 day period. And he says it’ll totally change your perspective on life. So I thought this would be something all of us could do starting on Thanksgiving Day all the way through January. Just look at doing that for a solid 60 to 90 days. Go buy yourself a little fish jar from Walmart or wherever and doesn’t have to be much and just get you some 3 x 5 cards and put them beside it. Do this in your home, do this at your workplace, and write those three new things that you’re thankful for every day and watch it change you. It’ll change your perspective of life.

Mary Jo: Oh, just how wonderful. On that note with this message today in our podcast, Bob and I, we just want to wish our listeners out there, that we are so thankful for, a blessed Thanksgiving and to enjoy the time with family and friends. You know, friends are the family that you choose. So, don’t ever underestimate being with those that you love. And in that, I’d like to end on another scripture note, and this is from Psalm 107, “Give thanks to the Lord for he is good. His faithful love endures forever. Has the Lord redeemed you? Then speak out. Tell others he has redeemed you from your enemies.

Mary Jo: You’ve been listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us next week as we explore more about how to apply biblical wisdom to your financial situations.

Bob: To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts, you can subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. To learn more about integrating your faith with your finances, visit out website at ciswealth.com or call 830-609-6986.

Mary Jo: That’s all for now until next week.

[DISCLOSURES]

Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

Learn about the legal fight to keep Christian values in the great state of Texas.

More episodes >>

In this interview with Jonathan Saenz, President of Texas Values, Bob and MJ discuss the importance of Christian Values that formed the great state of Texas and how they are in jeopardy of being lost in Texas and across the nation. Texas, being the economic superpower that it is, is being attacked by leftists and if they capture it, they may just capture the whole nation.

GUESTS: Jonathan Saenz of Texas Values

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

[INTRODUCTION]

Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

[EPISODE]

Bob: Ephesians 6:10-12, “This is the last thing I want to say. Be strong with the Lord strength. Put on the things God gives you to fight with, then you will not fall into the traps of the devil. Our fight is not with people. It’s against the leaders and the powers and the spirits of darkness in this world. It’s against the demon world that works in the heavens.” You know, Mary Jo, as we were coming up with this scripture, it’s really about the fight that we fight in the spiritual realm, isn’t it?

Mary Jo: It so is. It’s not the fight against the people, but it’s the darkness.

Bob: So for 25 years, Christian Financial Advisors has been helping Christians with financial planning and investing with those Christian values. We have really tried and have stayed committed to serving the Lord while helping our clients develop their longterm financial strategies to achieve these goals and objectives based on biblical principles. Our investment portfolios give you the opportunity to invest in companies that are making a positive change in our society. We offer many choices for those that would like to help make our world a better place both now and for generations to come and this investment methodology is referred to as what we call biblically responsible investing or morally responsible investing. This mirrors what we stand for with our conservative Christian values, which has to do with our guest that we’re going to have on today. If you’re like me, you’re aware that these values, they’ve been slowly eroding and there’s a huge concern for me, as was many of our brothers and sisters in Christ in what’s happening here. Mary Jo and I thought, as Certified Kingdom Advisors, that we’d have a tremendous opportunity to make a cultural impact through our vocation, which we do on a daily basis and that’s going to bring us to our guest today. As wealth management advisors, we’re Christian wealth advisors first.

Mary Jo: It seems that those who want to drive a wedge in our society and change these deeply held beliefs for more secular, more liberal agenda, they’re just getting bolder and bolder. Their voices are getting louder and louder. So we must work equally as hard in the fight to maintain our Christian way of life.

Bob: That’s the truth. We can’t stick our head in the sand about that.

Mary Jo: This has led us to look for like-minded groups and organizations that are working hard to preserve and promote a culture of family values and provide an equally loud voice in the fight to preserve our faith, our family, and our freedoms. We couldn’t live in a better place to engage in that fight, and that’s the great state of Texas. I love saying that. Texas has always stood for those same conservative, Christian values, and that’s what’s led us to the great work being done by Texas values. So on today’s episode of Christian Financial Perspectives, we have the honor and pleasure of speaking with Jonathan M. Signs. He’s president of Texas Values, an independent 501c3 nonprofit organization. They are associated with the Family Policy Alliance, a public policy partner of Focus On The Family, recognized by the Family Research Council. Like values-based investing, the Texas Values organization not only emphasizes that Christians vote their values in the voting booth, but their mission is also to preserve and advance a culture of family values in the state of Texas in which religious liberty flourishes, families prosper, and every human life is valued, and I just love that message.

Bob: That’s right. So we’re about to get our guest on, but I want to tell you a little bit more about Texas Values because they’re really promoting our core values of faith, family, and freedom in the great state of Texas, which also you think about it, Texas is so big, it pours over in states around us and then to the whole country. So they’re about policy research and public education in standing for the truth in media. They’re really a grassroots mobilization organization. They’re about educating voters, review and legislation, and providing a legal analysis and fighting at the Capitol. Jonathan’s going to tell us about that. Testifying at the Texas legislators state board of education and other governmental entities. We’ve been following the Texas Values initiatives for the last few years. I’ve personally been to their home offices in Austin and attended their last two annual conferences, which just blew me away. It was just a few months ago. It’s an amazing force for good. So today’s podcast, we thought it’d be great for those that believe in Christian values to learn about the Texas values organization from the president himself, Jonathan, I want to make sure I say your name right, Jonathan. Say your last name for me again.

Jonathan: Saenz like a street sign.

Bob: Okay. Jonathon Saenz. He’s out there daily fighting the fight for religious liberty. Jonathan, welcome to our podcast. We’re excited to have you on. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule. I know you’ve got a meeting with a group of pastors in San Antonio right after this podcast. So, finally we got to you. I want you to share what you’re doing and those victories that Texas Values is experiencing as well.

Jonathan: Well, absolutely and thank you for having me on today. It’s an honor. It’s great when we meet people and they’re a part of events that we do and they get to experience it. And then they have a deeper understanding for what we’re doing and they want to share that with other folks. We started Texas Values about seven years ago. I had been working for a larger organization on a lot of these same issues. I’m a licensed attorney, grew up in Houston. My family’s been in Texas for five generations and so very excited about the opportunity that I have to do the work that I do and really to serve other people while serving our Lord. What we’ve seen over time is a growing concern about the impact on our values and we call them Texas values. We think the values of faith, family, and freedom have always been the values that people in Texas care about. If you go back to the Alamo, you look at the letter that Travis wrote when he was the Alamo. You see those signs and those principles and those expressions of faith, family, and freedom, but over time there’ve been people that have wanted to redefine those values in our state. They’ve wanted to change the laws, they’ve wanted to change society, and a lot of that is going against these values that have made our state great and those are things that we care a lot about as Christians as well. And so I’ve been doing this work for almost two decades and then about seven, eight years ago had an opportunity to start an organization of my own that just focuses on what happens in the state of Texas as it relates to faith, family, and freedom. Proverbs 18:17 tells us, “He who presents his case first seems right until someone steps forth to challenge him.” And that in essence is what we do every day at Texas Values.

Mary Jo: That just makes me laugh in the current political climate. That’s a good one. Well, welcome Jonathan. And in preparing for today’s show, Bob and I both had so many questions for you. We didn’t really know where to start. Then I thought, well, you know, let’s just start with Texas. Texas itself is a great place to start. And they say that everything is bigger in Texas. And I hope that holds true in our fight to maintain those core family values that we hold so dear. So I’m guessing a lot of eyes are on Texas in this upcoming election cycle because what happens in Texas, like Bob mentioned earlier, it can affect other states as well. So some of these initiatives can spread easily once they get traction. So can you speak to this and some of what you’re seeing on the national stage and how it’s relevant to us here in Texas?

Jonathan: Well, absolutely. You know, unfortunately over the past few years, and really going back a little bit further, we have seen people and a lot of times in government attacking references to God attacking, expressions of God. And sometimes it’s directly related to Christians. We saw a few years ago when sermons of pastors in Houston were subpoenaed because they were talking about issues from the pulpit that related to proposed changes by the government and on issues of sexuality and morality. We see war memorials and some of those images and those structures that have been around for a long time being challenged and having to go to court. And then we see people that are in private businesses that are having their values attacked simply because they want to express and live out their Christian faith and they want that to be a part of what they do and they don’t want the government to punish them from doing that. And most recently, we saw comments that were made that related to some people wanting the government to punish churches just for continuing to teach what the Bible says about marriage and also issues of sexuality. And then locally, we’ve seen things happen here in our state where the government has actually attacked some businesses. I know we’re going to talk about that in just a minute because they decide to invest in and give charitable donations to Christian organizations. And so that’s been very troubling. We’ve even seen this on the issues of life. We’ve seen other things in parts of the country where you’ve had government leaders that when a baby is even born out of the womb, when the baby’s out of the womb, they say that there still might be a question of whether or not that child’s life can be ended, if that’s something that the parents want to do. And so we see a lot of these things happening and a lot of times people don’t know what to do and they can just throw up their hands. Thankfully we have an organization and other people that we work with, other like minded organizations, where we can do something about that. So while it’s unfortunate that we continue to see it growing attack on our values, oftentimes as I mentioned in that quote from Proverbs, when we stand up and do something, we can have an impact. But a lot of that has to do with people having the freedom to invest in the work that we do. So we can get good people out there and have an impact.

Bob: So Jonathan, I know just recently Chick-fil-A was all over the news and I know that Texas Values was behind helping Chick-fil-A with the Religious Freedom Act. Is that what it was called?

Jonathan: Well, it’s called the First Amendment Defense Act. We called it the Save Chick-fil-A Religious Freedom Law so people could have an understanding of what that issue was about.

Bob: So to remind our listeners, the San Antonio city council attempted to ban Chick-Fil-A in the San Antonio Airport in March because of past donations they’ve made to the Salvation Army and the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. It’s just crazy. In Texas, including our own Governor Abbott and Senator Ted Cruz, they expressed their overwhelming support for the save Chick-fil-A effort with over 150,000 phone calls, emails, social media messages to the state Capitol. So Jonathan, explain what this law is about, why it’s so important and why it’s such an important issue for the state of Texas, but not just Texas, the whole nation.

Jonathan: Well, absolutely Bob, and I’m going to mention this a couple of times in my explanation of all this. We have a website set up called savechickfila.com, savechickfila.com, people can go to that website and it’s a standalone micro site that has all the information about the law that was passed, why it was necessary. You can print a one page, download a one pager, that you can share at your church or in community meetings or with friends. And so we want people to use that information. So here’s what happened in San Antonio and you touched on this. You had the city of San Antonio, and it’s important for people to understand when we typically see these issues and these conflicts regarding religious freedom, it’s usually the government trying to tell private individuals, private businesses, or churches and pastors what they can do. And if those people don’t do that, the government is looking to punish them. So here’s what happened in San Antonio is there was an opportunity for new businesses to be at the San Antonio Airport. A new part of the airport, I think opened up or some space that was available for new vendors, and it was recommended that Chick-fil-A be one of those vendors at San Antonio Airport. And that’s no surprise. I mean, it’s one of the most popular fast food restaurants, if you will, the most popular chicken restaurant. They do more sales per store than any other fast food restaurant. So they’re very popular. They draw a lot of attention that should be good for sales and as a matter of fact, when Chick-fil-A is in an airport, they’re usually in the top five of sales for an airport. And so that’s good because that ends up being tax revenue that comes in locally because the San Antonio is governed by the local city, even though the federal government has some role in that. So this was all ready to happen. Okay. It was already in the proposal at the city level. Well then an article comes out that suggests, or that states, that Chick-fil-A is giving donations or the owners of Chick-fil-A, they give donations to entities like the Salvation Army and Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Those are very well known entities, particularly the Salvation Army, but they are Christian based and they do or some of them have an history of being very clear where their views are on marriage and sexuality. Fellowship of Christian Athletes just simply has a purity pledge, and it doesn’t mean for same sex or opposite sex. It applies to everyone. You have a purity pledge before you get married. And so because of that, there are some people that don’t like those entities and they think it’s wrong that Chick-fil-A would give money to them. So they highlighted this in the story and then members of the San Antonio city council said, “Well, we think that that goes against the values of some people that, you know, are engaged in the same sex lifestyle and so on.” So they attacked them, even though these entities base it based on their Christian beliefs. It’s not about what other people are doing. So they said, “You know what? Chick-fil-A should not be at the airport.” The government literally voted to take them out of a proposal that was already ready to happen and reversed what they had been doing leading up to that point. And they did, they banned them from having a location at the airport because they gave donations to Christian based ministries. And look, a big part of our work is working on these issues at the state legislature. So the Texas legislative session was in, we were in the middle of this, this was in March of this year of 2019 and so it was already happening. We had a law that would have touched on that issue, but it touched on a lot of other issues. And so we made a few modifications to make sure that included what was happening in San Antonio. And here’s the thing, this came up twice at the San Antonio city council, so it happened in March. And then people are so outraged that it came up again and another meeting in April and twice the city council voted to keep Chick-fil-A out after there was a national, not just statewide, firestorm on this issue. It left the state and our legislators, House, and Senate members, and there was bipartisan support for this new law, no choice but to pass a law to make it clear that what San Antonio was doing was illegal and that law is now in effect in Texas.

Bob: Thank goodness. This is crazy, especially in San Antonio.

Jonathan: Let me mention one other thing before I forget. This law is not just about Chick-fil-A. It means that anyone that gives donations, whether they’re a private individual, a church, or a private business, they can not be punished by the government. This could also include people that give donations to churches. Cause when this was debated at the Texas legislature, some members of the legislature said in their debate, well what about these churches that we don’t agree with their views? Maybe the government should be looking into this. We can’t have those churches just getting donations and that not be called into question. And so this law, you know, if you give to a church, which includes a lot of people, if you give donations to a church or if you’re a business that does that, or you’re a church that received donations, there’s a whole host of ways that this law protects people throughout the state.

Bob: Oh, I was looking at this from my perspective of Christian Financial Perspectives and Christian Financial Advisors. We serve the Christian population and we do give the Christian ministries. So yeah, I was like, this is a protection for businesses like mine because we’re Christian based.

Mary Jo: It surprises me so much. It’s issues like this one in San Antonio that just blow my mind. I was raised in South Texas in a very devoted Catholic household. I went to Catholic school. It was such a conservative environment and San Antonio of all places, they all had such deep roots and conservative, especially Catholic, values and all over South Texas. So how have we gotten here, Jonathan? How have we allowed the fabric of our society to change so much, so fast?

Jonathan: Well, look, you know, it hasn’t happened overnight, but there’s certainly good reason to feel like in the past few years or so that things have accelerated quite a bit, you know? And so when I started working on these things or paying attention to some of these things when I was in undergrad at the University of Texas, you know, they were starting to bother me. You know, you would see the government trying to shut down Bible groups and making it difficult for kids to pray at school and the 10 Commandments monument at the Texas Capitol. But goodness gracious, I couldn’t have imagined some of the things that I’m involved in now that touch on some of these same issues of religious liberty. And a lot of it is because the government has become much more active in passing laws that are used to criminalize and to punish people of faith, you know, relating to sexual orientation and gender identity protection and things of that nature. And some of the issues that relate to how areas of sex education have touched on these issues as well and just exploded. But a lot of it relates to who we elect. A lot of it relates to what judges are on the bench in making these decisions. And a lot of it has been that people have become very fearful just to talk about what their Christian beliefs are. And some of that is because the government sometimes specifically or members of the government suggests that they’re not afraid to attack churches and pastors in order to silence them. And so it’s become very concerning. And so that’s why our work has expanded so much and we’ve done a lot more work in a lot of different areas. And so there’s a lot of reason for there to be concern. But along the way, we’ve had opportunities to have victory as we try to adjust to a rapidly changing society and culture.

Bob: The other thing that’s come into light that I’m hearing about, and it’s through your organization, Jonathan, or I wouldn’t even have known this, but we’re close to Austin, I mean New Braunfels is, you know, between Austin and San Antonio. The Austin Independent School District and what they’re up to. Oh my goodness. I mean there’s this continued opposition from parents and concerned citizens, but the Austin ISD is pushing forward a radical sex education curriculum designed to indoctrinate our children as young as the third grade about the LGBT agenda. So tell us what’s going on here.

Jonathan: Well, Austin ISD, not a surprise to some people, is oftentimes a school district where they really push the boundaries and sometimes I feel like they go beyond what the law allows in a variety of different ways when it comes to issues of sex education. I think it’s important for people to know, here’s how the law stands in Texas. No school district is required to teach sex education. They’re not. Now the law says if they choose to, they have to teach abstinence more than any other method, if you will, when it comes to these types of issues. Because the reality is, and it’s very clear, the facts are clear, that is the only method that 100% of the time means that you can’t get pregnant and you can’t get a sexually transmitted disease. Abstinence works 100% of the time. Now people can argue about whether or not students are fond of that or whatever, but when you want to look at methods, it works 100% of the time. So you have Austin ISD continuing to push these issues and then you see the sexuality issues and issues related to abortion touching these issues as well and almost coming together. And a lot of it has to do with these groups trying to get government funding. They’re all looking for a revenue stream one way or another. And so what’s happened lately is the Austin ISD has been using Planned Parenthood, the largest abortion provider in the country, if not the world, as the ones that have been writing the sex education. And no surprise that a lot of it really can be seen as really suggesting, if not encouraging, a lot of sexual activity and promoting a lot of things that relate to questions about sexuality that really children are not prepared to do. If you’re in a public school in Texas, you have the right to opt out of these things. But sometimes that’s not good enough because it overtakes so much of the school that your kids may have a touch with this one way or another. So parents, even in Austin, have said enough, and this latest round was in Austin ISD. It was illegal because we passed a new law, Senate Bill 22, that made it clear that government cannot contract with abortion providers. And so, Planned Parenthood got booted out of that process and that curriculum. But then Austin ISD went to some people in Canada of all places, also an abortion provider, and used their resources and that’s what they’re doing currently. And the way it’s designed, it’s not even just about sex education. It’s also training the kids to be really these advocates, if you will, to be militant about these issues on sexuality and related to abortion and sexual activity and to really find out, and it tells them that they have a responsibility. If people don’t agree with these new issues related to sexuality, whether transgender, whether lesbianism, whether it’s bisexual, whatever those things are, if they find out there are people that disagree with them, they’re supposed to confront them. That’s what this curriculum teaches them to do. And guess who those people are? Those are Christians that believe that God created us male and female. And by the way, it’s not just in the Bible that way. We know that that’s just, that’s science. That’s how it works. And so not only that, they’re encouraging kids to stop using words like mother and father.

Mary Jo: Oh my goodness.

Jonathan: And telling them that they should not even be recognizing that people have a so-called birth mother. And so we have a website called noradicalsexeducation.com, I believe. It’s a website where people can go to, but there’s an October 28th meeting. I’m not sure when this podcast is being publicized or shared with people, but October 28th there’s going to be a big meeting at the Austin ISD to make a final decision on this. We’re going to have our team there and a lot of other concerned parents, because even in Austin when we push back, we’ve had success at times.

Bob: I get concerned about if it passes in Austin that is going to come right down Interstate 35 and even hit my own city of New Braunfels, so that’s a great concern.

Jonathan: That’s a legitimate concern. There’s no doubt.

Mary Jo: When you grow up in the state of Texas and you hear so much about Austin, they have their own slogan, “Keep Austin Weird”. So it’s reasonable to understand that they’re going to have their own little subculture there. But can you explain how Planned Parenthood has gotten such a strong foothold, and the LGBTQ agenda has gotten as well, in the city of Austin? One of the things that I’ve heard recently is Planned Parenthood has gotten the city of Austin to give them free rent worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost revenue to the city. Well, this has to result in a shortfall in other areas of the city budget, and this has got to be offset by tax payer dollars. This could be shouted down in a hurry if it was a church that was getting subsidized. So how can we address these kinds of imbalances?

Jonathan: Well, absolutely, and before I forget on that website, it’s noradicalsexed.com on what’s going on locally in Austin ISD right now. And as a matter of fact, Twitter shut it down at one point, but we were able to get it back up. And so a lot of good information there and it relates to this as well. So there’s been a pattern for awhile, the city Austin in having this cozy relationship with Planned Parenthood, because for entities like Planned Parenthood, that is so important for them to get that government money. And here’s the thing that’s interesting. Oftentimes amongst Christians we’re pro-life. We don’t agree with abortion, but even people that have different views on this, and maybe amongst some Christians that maybe haven’t gotten a lot of the information yet, they don’t think the government should pay for people’s abortion, though. They still think, okay, well maybe someone, you know, they have their view about if they want to do that. But when it comes to, “Oh, and the government’s going to pay for it, wait a minute. I’m not for that.” So even people that may not consider themselves pro-life are concerned when this happens. But that is a major reason of why Planned Parenthood still exists because not only at the state level, excuse me, at the local level, but at the federal level, they’re getting all this government money. We’re still working on addressing that at the federal level. We’ve had some improvement and some cutoff of funds there, but not totally, but at the state level, we’ve cut everything off. But the city of Austin keeps trying to find a way to use local tax dollars. And that’s one of the ways they did that. They said, “Oh, well we’ll just give them a major discount on the building that Planned Parenthood is renting as a way to do that.” And they were giving them rent in a building for $1 a year and it’s effectively free, right? But $1 a year for 20 years with an option of a renewal for another 20 years. You’re talking about a total value of 30 to $40 million over the life of this so-called rent or this lease. And so we have a new law in the state of Texas that cut that off, that now has made that illegal, but they’re always going to be looking for a revenue stream. And you know, the city of Austin has grown quite large. I mean, and so you think about the amount of tax dollars that could be available to an entity like Planned Parenthood. It can be quite substantial. And so thankfully we’ve had some success in that, but we’ve seen the pro abortion and the pro LGBTQ movement and a lot of them have always kinda been on the same side, so to speak. But they have kind of combined a lot of their efforts in order to try to gain some strength because statewide, when it comes to some of these issues, they don’t have quite as much support. But they then will go to the local governments. They’ll go to the school districts. They’ll go to the cities and some of these counties and they’ll start to develop government policies that favor them and allow them to punish or make it illegal or make it difficult for Christians to continue to exist or have their values. It’s gone way beyond weird. I mean, I’ve lived in Austin a long time, okay. I was a student at the University of Texas back in the mid nineties and then came back after law school. There are people there that there’s not even that real identity any more. It’s a completely different culture than we’ve seen before. A lot of it is because people that now have liberal, and some anti-Christian views, they’re now becoming very successful in business. They’re more sophisticated and they’re using that corporate money in Austin where you have a lot of tech industries coming from California and places that maybe have different views on these issues. They’re not using a lot of that money to come together. And using that to impact our laws, without question, and they stay very close to the LGBT groups and Planned Parenthood.

Bob: Wow, Jonathan, I am so thankful for Texas Values. Y’all are right in the middle of it all and I love your mission, you’re to preserve and advance a culture of family values, those Christian values in the state of Texas in which religious liberty flourishes, families prosper, and every human life is valued. You’re making sure those conservative values are not abandoned in this crazy climate of change that we’re seeing. When it comes to awareness and acceptance of the LGBT community, it’s my understanding they only make up about 5% or even less of the overall population. Yet their message and their agenda has gained such a disproportionate amount of traction. How did we get here and how can we get back to a more proportional balance of thought and activism in this space?

Mary Jo: We need the pendulum to swing the other way.

Bob: Yeah, exactly.

Jonathan: There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle and ways that we address these things. You know, one of the things that we do every week, we start with prayer with our meetings on Monday morning, and we always have to start from there. I think that we continue to be faithful. Look, we try to make it clear where we’re being successful and whether we’re not, and try to adjust our methods. But it all starts with remembering that it’s not so much about being judged about wins and losses and percentages. And while those are important, it really goes back to are we being faithful and are we being faithful to what we’re called to do as Christians? In whatever role we’re in and where we are in our lives and where we are in society. And so I think that’s where we start. You start with being faithful in your own personal walk with Christ, in your time, studying the Bible and really saying, am I being faithful to what I’m supposed to do? And then let’s see where God leads these things. We got to not lose sight of that. So that’s where we begin our week.

Bob: It takes me back to how we started today with Ephesians 6:10-12 and realizing this is a battle in the spiritual realm.

Jonathan: There is no doubt. But when we get to it logistically, right, and think about now how do we, now that we’re on board with that, then what do we do with that? And that’s so much of where we come in as an organization, but it’s not just about us. Everyone has a role to play. And so it is quite interesting to note when you think about population wise, but then you look at the message when it comes to the LGBT community and some of it is more than just a movement, a time period that we’re in, but it’s hard to deny that it’s taking place. And so a lot of that too just is for people to get over their fear of talking about some of these issues. I had a state legislator ask me about this one time, why do you guys do what you do? And you know, you’re kind of fighting uphill sometimes or whatever and almost suggesting that it was about something else. And I’m like, well look, we care about people. We care about people. And as they taught me in law school, the law is a teacher. There are a lot of people that will base their lives based on what the law says. It matters what the law says. It will impact whether or not people do things. And if we have policies that we know statistically, when you look at the LGBT lifestyle, when you look at people that go through gender transitions, close to 80% of them later on say that they regretted it. They’ve got all of these different issues. We talk about some of the issues you hear that deal with things related to the suicide rate. That is not about Christians rejecting people living their life. That’s about people’s individual struggles, themselves, with their own identity and how to deal with it and sometimes not having faith of their own. So there are all these statistics and outcomes that we know are not good overall for people when you look at those numbers. So we’re in a place of trying to help steer things so things don’t go in that direction. But in the midst of all of that, just being more willing to stand up and say what’s right. You don’t have to shout at people. You can use whatever kind words you want and craft it, but just being willing to stand up. I mean, we have the largest social media presence in the state of Texas on the issues when it comes to a faith and family organization, it’s really important to engage in these areas. And you know, you can do that in a kind way, but you can also find out what’s going on locally, right? So much of the work we do, people are surprised by this. We don’t hear about it. Someone calls us, they send us an email, or a text message and they let us know and we’re like, wow, well then let’s see if we can help you. So sometimes, it’s so dependent on people doing something within their movement. Could things happen overnight and very quickly and see a big change? Sure. Yeah. But the likelihood of that is it’s not going to take place. And so, so much of it does deal with what are you doing at home, what are you talking about with your family? Are you having those conversations, and are you willing to share some of this information with people? That’s why we created websites like savechickfila.com and noradicalsexed.com because some of these issues. There can be a lot of complexity to them.

Jonathan: There can be a lot of legal issues that deal with it. So, people are afraid they’re going to say the wrong thing. So we try to put out as many resources that people can use, whether we ever meet them or not, so they can be the most respected voice in their community, but they take the information that we have. A phrase we hear at the Capitol a lot is government belongs to those who show up. And a lot of times if we would just show up, and not feel like we’ve got to be the experts and know everything, but show up and speak God’s word or talk about a policy issue that relates to us and we have a concern about, that one voice can make a huge difference.

Bob: No kidding.

Mary Jo: Wow. We just want to thank you for sharing so much around the background of Texas Values and what you’re doing for us and that you’re walking alongside us in our fight for family values. As I mentioned earlier, we had so many questions and we were like, okay, so how do we narrow this down for the sake of the podcast? I think you’ve touched on this one earlier. Last week, former representative Beto O’Rourke was asked on a CNN town hall, “Do you think religious institutions like colleges, churches, charities, should they lose their tax exempt status if they oppose same sex marriage?” And he responded, “Yes. There can be no reward, no benefit, no tax break for anyone or any institution, any organization in America, that denies the full human rights and the full civil rights of every single one of us.” And your response – I just loved it – was, “Beto and some Democrats have declared war on churches, and we say come and take it. The unconstitutional threat of using the government to punish churches for their biblical beliefs on marriage, it must end and we’ll be vigorously opposed.” So what more can you tell us about this latest assault from one of our own, a fellow Texan, that’s talking this way. And does that concern you?

Jonathan: Well, look, I’ve seen these things over time. We’ve heard them whispered, if you will, or suggested before and now that it’s come out so publicly, while it’s very concerning, it’s something that we’ve known has been in the background for a while and that’s why we’ve worked so hard for the past three legislative sessions to pass religious Liberty laws that affect certain areas and relate to certain current issues. So it’s very alarming when we heard this, and as you heard me mention before, I’m fifth generation Texan. I take very seriously and really have a lot of pride in growing up in this state. That doesn’t mean people that live in other places or come here recently, as we say, you know, you got here as quick as you could. We welcome that, okay. But we have something that we believe in, something that’s special and exceptional about our state. And sometimes we feel like we have a responsibility that if we don’t stand our ground here in this state, it’s going to be much more difficult in other parts of the country for them to do the same. And we’ve seen when we’ve had success here and when we stand up to some of these attacks, other states say, you know what? We’re going to do the same thing. And so we take that very seriously as well. And you know, I mentioned this, we had a mayor in Houston that tried to subpoena the sermons of pastors a few years ago. We’ve known that these attacks are coming on churches and pastors. In 2015, we passed the Texas Pastor Protection Law in the state of Texas to make it clear that churches and employees and the property, they cannot be attacked by the government for performing marriages and being forced to perform marriages that goes against their beliefs. So going by what the Bible says when it relates to marriage cannot get you in trouble with the government, because we knew that’s what some people wanted to do. Here you go, Exhibit A. Now you have Beto O’Rourke actually saying that, and there’s a history of churches not being taxed by the government. The estimated value that churches and religious institutions bring to our economy is close to $2 trillion. I mean it’s more than Google, Amazon, and Apple combined. So there’s no question if you want to look at the economic side of things, the value and benefit that the religious institutions bring to our society is quite tremendous. But the history of using tax exempt status and all this, we’ve even seen the Supreme Court recognize that that’s not what the government is supposed to be doing. And when you do that, that can be seen as a weapon or a hostility towards religious institutions and churches that the constitution clearly outlaws. But we need to take it seriously. I mean, and obviously Beto said it, you know, there are other people that believe the same way. That’s why it’s so important to have the right people in office and when they’re in office, to make it clear that we have to have religious laws that are very specific, because there are a lot of churches and pastors, they’re going to see this and they are going to be spooked by it. And they’re going to say, you know what? I’m not going to talk about these issues anymore because I don’t want to have to spend my time in court. I want to be at the pulpit, but I want people to know it’s not just our organization, Texas Values. There are many organizations across the state and the country that if ever get challenged directly like this, we will come and defend you vigorously, and I’m fairly confident we’ll win.

Bob: Jonathan, one of the things that you said is people gotta show up, so how do we get involved with your organization specifically?

Jonathan: Absolutely. Well, our website, the main website is TXvalues.org. You can go there. You can sign up for our email alerts so you can get connected. You can sign up for text alerts so you can get a text message when something’s happened in your community. You can just go through the website and get yourself educated. Make sure you’re registered to vote. Some of the resources that I mentioned, savechickfila.com, Texas pastors – I think it’s protectpastors.com is the website, the noradicalsexed.com. All these are websites where you can print off information, take them to your Bible study, take them to one of your community meetings, and say, “Hey, I just want y’all to know what’s going on in our state.” Being able to just share that information. You might be thinking about running for office. That might be something you say, you know what? I’ve heard enough of all these other elected officials. I’m going to do something and it doesn’t have to be some big position. It could be at the city level, at the community level, could be your HOA. There could be some role that you could be playing or talking to your pastor and just asking your pastor to consider talking about these issues. In the core of it, the minimum of it, just make sure you vote. If Christians were voting, if we had a 20 to 30% increase in Christian voting, you’d see a dramatic difference, and so don’t take for granted just going out and voting and that’s not just at the state and the national level, but also some of these local races and we’ve got a lot of information about some of those things, but you might be interested in doing a little bit more. We actually have a full time position that we’re hiring for for public policy right now. We had a member of our team that’s moved to DC for a very nice position. You might want to get more involved in that way, or you might want to be an intern. You might be studying right now and you want to learn about this. There’s a variety of different ways that people can connect with us. You might decide to make an investment. We are a 501c3 nonprofit organization, so you might decide to do that. That could be tremendously helpful.

Bob: Well, speaking of voting, I think Mary Jo wants to ask something.

Mary Jo: At Christian Financial Advisors, we are all about helping our clients integrate their faith and their finances. So I want to kind of change our question direction just a little bit and bring our discussion back around. Speaking of voting, voting our values with our investments. I noticed that Texas Values, they have their 403B, their Employer Based Retirement Plan, with Guidestone. Guidestone is a Christian financial services firm. So I just have a couple of questions regarding that. How did you come to make that decision? What kind of due diligence did you do about finding a Christian based retirement plan provider, and how did you get connected with Guidestone in particular?

Jonathan: Absolutely. So I mentioned this early on. I worked for a larger organization before called Liberty Institute. It’s now called First Liberty Institute. It was a larger organization, and when we were a part of that team and that organization, and it’s led by Kelly Shackelford who is a Christian lawyer and well known in a lot of circles. That was the one that was selected at the time. And you know, we saw the background and the Christian based approach of this entity and knowing how important it can be about the people that you trust with your investments. So that’s what went into that decision. And then when we started Texas Values, it really was two of us that worked for that entity and one of those members, Kelly Shackelford, came onto our board. So that kind of just transitioned and we followed along with that when we started our organization.

Bob: Well, I want to say I love it that Texas Values has decided to go with an organization like Guidestone because we’re all about biblically responsible investing. Like I said, we feel that that’s a way to vote, too. And I think it’s important that Christian business owners across the board and Christians, they all take a stand through their voting and how they invest and take that public stance in support of conservative values versus the risk of backlash from the liberal media, and speak out. Because I tell you, that far left is sure speaking out.

Jonathan: Oh absolutely. And you know, I mean, look, this is what we do as Americans and even as Christians. I mean, we have a duty. You heard ,that Proverbs quote that I mentioned from the Bible earlier in our segment and I think that we have become very afraid and I get it. I mean, I understand, you know. I sometimes confront that myself depending on what group of people I’m talking with. Is this the right thing to say or how should I say this? But we should not allow that fear to push us into silence. And we really work with a lot of our messaging to try to message in a way that it resonates with people and that people feel comfortable talking about some of these issues. And so, I think there’s a lot of responsibility that goes along with it as Americans, Texans, and as Christians. And what I get excited about is we have a lot of great information that we can share with people so they don’t have to do a lot of their own research and think about it. They can rely on us and use that information, and then they could also decide when they make their investments how to do these things and find someone that’s biblically based. There’s a lot of freedom that I think we can use that sometimes people are losing sight of.

Mary Jo: You said that so well that we shouldn’t let our fear silence us, and that’s true when it comes to our investment portfolios, too. Seems to me that biblically responsible investing, it’s just an extension of what you’re talking about there at Texas Values and vice versa. We’re an extension of what you’re talking about. If you believe strongly in protecting these values, doesn’t it also make sense that you’d also want to vote with your investment portfolio rather than investing in companies that are against these values? Do you think that that’s something that more people should be interested in or could be interested in?

Jonathan: No, look, I mean it can be basic sometimes, right? We talked a lot about Chick-fil-A. You know. You get to decide where you’re going to eat every day, but it goes much further than that when you look at investment, and here’s why it’s important. There are a lot of corporations, I mentioned this earlier, that are pulling their money together. They’re having these meeting., They have a strategy to use a lot of their extra money if you will, or whatever profits they have, to really work against Christian values. And so there is a, with no question, a strategic and an organized effort to do that. And so a lot of times people aren’t aware of that. And so I want people to know that that is happening and that’s the freedom we have. And so there is nothing wrong with saying, you know what, then I’m going to choose to invest in businesses and companies that can help me invest with businesses that share my values because there is a tug of war going on. There is a push and pull that’s going on. I wish that it wasn’t, but it is and that’s a part of the reality and it’s not going to stop if we turn our back on it and just say, well, I’m not going to think about that and maybe you know, things will work out okay. And there’s nothing wrong with doing that, and it doesn’t mean that you have to have ill will towards others or anything negative. It’s simply part of our freedom as Americans and Texans to say, you know what, I’m going to choose where I do business. I’m going to choose where I invest. A lot of times we do that and it’s not even based on some biblical views. It’s maybe someone we know, we’re more comfortable with, but there’s no reason why we should be uncomfortable doing that when it comes to biblically based businesses and a lot of those businesses, too, like Chick-fil-A, they turn around and then invest in Christian based ministries as well, which I mentioned before. It has a tremendous positive impact on our society.

Bob: I think of businesses not only like Chick-Fil-A, but like Hobby Lobby. I know Christian Brothers Automotive is where I always go to get my car fixed. Is there a list other Christian companies that y’all might have that people can support?

Jonathan: You know, we have not created a list and I struggle to put it out there because some of those businesses decide how they want to handle some of these things. I think the best way to find that out is to ask people in your community who those businesses are. Find out who they are in your local community, and then share that information. So, I think that’s the best way to do things. I know in the community that I live in, people that I see go to church, look at people that advertise at your church and a lot of churches will put things out or they’ll go to church meetings or they’ll go to church events and you’ll look at some of those people that are advertising at the fall festival or a particular fundraising drive. Find out who those businesses are locally in your community.They’re already investing in the church and a lot of times that gives you the best place in order to say, you know what, then that’s who I’m going to invest in locally or I’m going to choose to do business with because I can see by their actions. I know that’s the way it is at my church. We have something that they put out where you can see some of the local businesses that are part of supporting the church and some church events and the local school. That’s one of the ways, you know, other than some of the larger ones you mentioned that I think is a way to give back to the community, but also to show that you support those Christian businesses. And many of them if not all of them, they’re also doing things the right way and that is something that means that there are people that are good to do business with as well as, you know, showing up to church on Sunday and living out their values.

Bob: Jonathan, you have covered so much in today’s podcast and I appreciate our listeners for sticking with us this long cause there’s so much great information here. They can go to Texasvalues.org. Is there any last few words you want to say before we’re done for the day?

Jonathan: Well, it’s actually TXvalues.org. It’s just an abbreviation of the state. So that website has a lot of great information. We do have a weekly radio show that airs on Friday and Saturday if people are interested. It’s on social media and on a Christian radio station out of the Central Texas area called The Bridge. Look, I just want to encourage people, and I want people to know this. You have a place no matter where you are and what you do. Before I got involved in this work, I was a law student at the University of Houston. I didn’t really know anyone. I didn’t really have any connections, and the university tried to shut down the pro-life organization that I was leading because we didn’t support the pro-abortion message, and they allow those groups to be on campus but not ours. I didn’t even start the issue. I took over the effort, but we said we’re going to stand for what the constitution says about free speech and about being treated fairly by the government and so on. And everything was on the line. We were in bad shape and I thought I was going to lose my ability to get my law degree and what I thought was about to be my future. But we dwindled down to one person in that group, and that was me, and I was all that was left. I thought my time to do that work was going to be after law school cause that’s what I was training to do, that I was going to help someone else. And it was like God tapping me on the shoulder saying no, it’s time to stand now. And so I did and I had great Christian lawyers that eventually came by our side. We won, and then we were allowed to have the freedom to speak, to talk to young women, one who ended up making a decision for life because of that freedom. So before I had any of the stuff that I do and a team and all the other things that I’m blessed with now, I was just one guy. I was just one student, and I stood firm and then was able to have success. So I want people to know, no matter where you are and what you do, you have a very important role to play in this work that we’re doing. And we’re here. Texas Values is here to meet you wherever you are, so we can help you do the most with that.

Mary Jo: Well, you know, Jonathan, you said it earlier, “The government belongs to those who show up.” And so thank you for showing up and thanks for showing up on our podcast today ,being our guest. And I want to leave our listeners with this one last scripture in Romans 5:12-13, “We are reminded that yes, each of us will give a personal account to God. So let’s stop condemning each other. Decide instead to live in such a way that you will not cause another believer to stumble and fall.” And if you believe, as Bob and I do, that we will one day be held accountable for every word, thought, deed, and even our investments in our lives, then we hope you’ll stand with us in our support of Texas Values, which is also Christian values. But even take it one step further and vote with your investment portfolio. So, are you ready to put your money where your heart is? If you’d like to learn more, upi can give us a call at (830) 609-6986.

[CONCLUSION]

Mary Jo: You’ve been listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us next week as we explore more about how to apply biblical wisdom to your financial situations.

Bob: To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts, you can subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. To learn more about integrating your faith with your finances, visit out website at ciswealth.com or call 830-609-6986.

Mary Jo: That’s all for now until next week.

[DISCLOSURES]

Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

Learn about choosing the right insurance for best protection.

More episodes >>

You’ve probably heard previous Christian Financial Perspectives’ podcasts on life insurance, disability insurance, and even Long Term Care. These are just some of the tools we can all use to lower risk. In this particular podcast, Bob and Mary Jo discuss basic household insurance, commonly referred to as Property & Casualty (or P&C for short).

Insurance is one of those things we know we need, but we always seem to buy it reluctantly. Some may view it as a necessary evil, while others may view it as a commodity and opt to shop on price alone. However, some insurance is more than just insurance, it’s real protection. It’s peace of mind knowing that you, your loved ones, and your worldly goods are covered.

HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

[INTRODUCTION]

Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

Bob: Psalms 5:11-12, “But let all who take refuge in you be glad. Let them ever sing for joy. Spread your protection over them, that those who love your name may rejoice in you. Surely Lord, you bless the righteous. You surround them with your favor as with a shield.” I don’t know if you caught something in that scripture, but there was a word in there that we’re going to be talking about today and it was protection. We’ve discussed life insurance, disability insurance, and even longterm care insurance in some of our previous podcasts. And these are just some of the tools we use to help lower risk and protect you. So in return for that benefit, we’re required to pay for it. So in today’s podcast, we’re going to discuss basic household insurance, commonly referred to as property and casualty. Or you may have heard it referred as P and C for short. And this is insurance that covers your home, whether you rent or buy. It covers, your cars, your boats, your toys, and even yourself in the case of an accident involving your property, like a vehicle, or an incident that happens on your property, like at your home as a result of negligence.

Mary Jo: Another great scripture that I like that I think addresses this and speaks to protection and that Psalm 32:6-7. “Therefore, let all the faithful pray to you while you may be found. Surely the rising of the mighty waters will not reach them. You are my hiding place. You will protect me from trouble and surround me with the songs of deliverance.” We often think of insurance as protection for that reason. It protects us from trouble. Insurance. It’s one of those things we know we need, but we always seem to buy it reluctantly. It’s kind of that sunk cost, if you will, just fighting that concept.

Bob: I know I am because it costs so much cause I’m protecting so much.

Mary Jo: Well, it’s something you may not ever need. Let’s hope we don’t need it.

Bob: Exactly.

Mary Jo: But we’ve got some stories to tell you. So, some of us may view it as a necessary evil. Some may view it as a commodity and not to shop on price alone, but we view it as a necessary component of your financial wellbeing. Some insurance, it’s more than just insurance. It’s real protection. It’s peace of mind knowing that you, your loved ones and your worldly goods are covered and we hope after listening to today’s podcast you come away with a different perspective when it comes to property and casualty insurance.

Bob: When it comes to insurance, we always recommend at least doing an annual review. Even a semiannual review is great to make sure that you have the right policy or coverage at the best price, cause we live in an ever increasing what we call a DIY, do-it-yourself, culture. Nearly everything we need today we can find it online. You can do that with insurance. There’s a YouTube video on how to do just about anything, but when it comes to insurance, are you really better off going at it alone or does it pay to use an expert? If so, what’s the cost of working with one? I believe, myself personally, and I know Mary Jo does too, that working with an experienced person when it comes to insurance coverage is definitely worth the price in the long run, especially when you really need it. After all, in that time of crisis, it’s not about the price but it’s the coverage, and if you’re covered or not cause you may not be covered if you’re just buying it online and you really don’t know what you’re buying. You can find insurance agents that are captive to one company or ones that work with many different companies. These are usually called independent agents. Both had their merit. So when doing an annual comparison, check with both of these types of agents to ensure you’re covering all your bases. Another best practice that we like to recommend is to review the terms and definitions of all your policies. Make sure you understand the fine print. For example, do you know the difference between a binder and a rider? Probably not, but a binder is an in force acknowledgement, usually from the agent. A rider usually provides an additional benefit over what is described in the basic policy in exchange for a fee payable to the insurer. I hope you got all that.

Mary Jo: Well, you know, Bob, I think it’s pretty simple in that when you first talk with an insurance agent, before you send in the bill, you’re covered. Okay. Once they establish the policy, so there is a window of time where they’ve clicked the button on the computer, they’ve got you covered, but you haven’t actually sent in your premium yet.

Bob: I think that’s a great way of saying it.

Mary Jo: That’s when your binder is protecting you. It’s binding the insurance company to protect you.

Bob: That’s right.

Mary Jo: And the other, a rider, you think about it on your homeowner’s policy. A lot of people may have a rider for jewelry or guns or collection or a custom car that’s in the garage, so they need a little extra coverage for something in particular, and they’ll put an additional rider on their policy to make sure that happens. Those are fairly common things, but a lot of people don’t really understand what they mean.

Bob: Yes. Thanks for making that a little more clear to our podcast listeners because there’s a lot of technicalities that we’re going to get into today.

Mary Jo: There are, but before we get into the nuts and bolts on the insurance policies, let’s first talk about claims and the paying of those claims. This isn’t all that important until you actually have a claim, and then it becomes very clear, very fast that it’s so very important. In fact, it’s very, very important. I’ve had two situations where it made a huge difference. And if you’ve been listening to the podcast for a while, you’ve heard me talk about being impacted by hurricane Harvey here in Rockport. What a lesson that was when it comes to homeowners insurance, flood insurance, and windstorm insurance. This is when working with a trusted insurance agent, as well as a trusted agency, really paid off. You’ve probably heard me share my husband and I’ve had a condo in Rockport prior to Hurricane Harvey, as well as a boat that we kept in a dry stack storage, and we lost both of those in the storm. The entire condominium complex had devastating damage that required taking each unit in the complex down to the studs and basically rebuilding it from that point forward. Luckily, our homeowners association had its own coverage for this, as is required in the bylaws of the condominium association. However, as a condo owner we’re responsible for our own personal contents and we were lucky, we had good coverage with a reputable carrier.

Bob: I want to say something in the middle here, because we had a condo down there too, cause y’all bought our old condo. I remember talking to you about that, and I remember talking to so many of our homeowners. They didn’t have their personal content coverage, and that’s crazy cause it was worth so much money, but everything else was covered.

Mary Jo: That’s true, Bob. We bought your condo but we had a condo at the time, which we sold to some other friends. And in that conversation, in the transactions that happened after that, I never realized that they didn’t know they needed to have their own personal contents insurance. And we just happened to be talking, and I was telling him how I just updated our contents policy on the condo and he looks at me and he goes, “What are you talking about?” And I said, “Well, you know your contents policy for your condo.” And he goes, “I didn’t know we needed that. I thought the HOA covered that.” And I had to go back and explain to him. He goes, no. Well he went out the next day and got it. And you know, Hurricane Harvey hit less than six weeks later.

Bob: Oh my goodness. Wow. Wow.

Mary Jo: So we’re even better friends now.

Bob: Well, hopefully somebody who’s listening to our podcast, they know they need to get that coverage now because you never know.

Mary Jo: We’re using this as a story and there’s more to come on that simply because we know that a lot of our listeners, they’re retired or they’re nearing retirement and they could very well be considering a condo purchase in some other area of the country or as a second home or something like that. So, there is a lot of things that you need to be aware of. When it came to our claim on our condo after the hurricane, all I had to do was submit a claim with a detailed list of the items lost. I acted pretty quickly. I got it in in short order and included everything that was damaged due to wind and rain intrusion, which was pretty much everything in the condo because the roof came off and so that compromised everything. Everything that was material or soft goods in the condo. We got a check from our insurance company with no questions asked.

Mary Jo: When it came to our boat that was in the boat barn, it had basically imploded. Our boat, normally stored on the third tier, was now on the floor at the bottom of a heap of other boats. The motor had been ripped off the transom and the hole was compromised. All the insurance company requested was a picture. Once we were able to provide the picture, we again received a check for the value of the boat and the boat trailer. In fact, we received our coverage limits for both the condo contents and the boat and the boat trailer without any debate, without any discussion, with no back and forth argument with our agent. They just covered us.

Bob: That’s cause you had a good agent and a good agency.

Mary Jo: We did. They acted swiftly and in good faith during a time of crisis, which is what you want. I just can’t tell you how grateful we were for this. So many of our neighbors are still in constant battles with their insurance companies. Some of this went on for over a year and as I mentioned, some of it’s still going on. You just think about the stress that created.

Bob: Gahlee. Yeah, I know. And seeing all that, and so many of us in Texas that listened to the podcast can remember Hurricane Harvey, not only how it hit Rockport, but then it went on to just hover over Houston for such a long time and doing all the devastating flooding.

Mary Jo: Oh, absolutely. It’s affected so many in our area. Another incident was I had a terrible car wreck a few years ago. A woman was driving while distracted.

Bob: Was she texting?

Mary Jo: Yes, she was.

Bob: Oh no.

Mary Jo: And I was two blocks away from my house. She ran a red light and she T-boned my car right between the front door and the rear door on my side of the car, on the driver’s side, and the EMS came, the fire department and the door was sawed off in order for me to be able to get out of the car. I was crying hysterically. I was just so traumatized. I was in shock, and I didn’t think I could even crawl out of the passenger side cause there was this big console in the middle, and I didn’t know if my back was injured or how badly I was hurt. I was just that upset. Needless to say, my car was also in pretty bad shape, but one call to my agent and I knew I was in good hands. I guess that’s why one prominent company uses that saying as a marketing slogan. It’s very descriptive and certainly tells a story. And this incident was another lesson learned. So when repairing vehicles damaged in accidents, did you know that insurance companies can argue that it’s not necessary for you to have what are known as original equipment manufacturer parts or OEM parts? I didn’t even know there was such a thing, but I learned it in this situation. They argue that the use of lookalike aftermarket, non OEM or generic crash parts, significantly contribute to holding down the cost of repairs and it’s what helps keep insurance premiums low. They claim it’s in the best interest of both the insurance companies and their insured, so they allow for the use of aftermarket parts in the repair of damaged vehicles. However, as a society, we’ve got to balance the cost with the safety and the integrity of those generic parts. So let’s look at this in a little bit more detail. You have a relatively new vehicle. You feel really good about driving it. When you selected the car, you were buying more specifically, instead of you were looking for high quality safety features and high marks in safety tests. Now, all of a sudden, you’re in a car accident. It wasn’t your fault, and your poor car in in tatters. Fast forward to the repair shop. Your insurance company now won’t pay for original equipment manufactured parts, and now you’re forced to replace parts that may or may not have the same quality that you originally had in the car. So you lose, yet again, in the repair of your car. Now you feel like you are truly assaulted. At least that’s how I felt. So working with discount auto insurance providers, it’s often the case. Sometimes paying a little higher premium, it might be worth it, and you have to look at the terms of your contract. That’s the bottom line. You need to know what you’re getting. And since we’re talking about cars, we can use a car analogy. You need to look under the hood. It’s an interesting debate, but I don’t want it to be at my expense. So the point is when shopping for insurance, the monthly premiums are not the only cost to consider. The claims paying reputation is a huge component of your decision. Bob, I’m sure you have an insurance story to share with our listeners.

Bob: Well, you just wore me out. Listen to your’s.

Mary Jo: Yeah. And there’s even more, but I’ll save it.

Bob: Oh my goodness. Now, Mary Jo, I don’t know if I’m going to want to get in the car with you again.

Mary Jo: But you know, it was such a lesson.

Bob: Yeah, yeah. Wow. So all pun intended, y’all, when we were making the podcast, Mary Jo goes, so Bob, what’s your insurance story? And I said, you know, I really don’t have one. I mean, when I was 16 my dad bought me a car and within about three or four months, and as goofy as I was when I was 16, I wrecked it. I got another car. So I guess the insurance company took care of it and I went on with life. I just, I don’t have any stories like that.

Mary Jo: Well, you did have three teenage drivers, but they were all girls.

Bob: They were good, too. So, maybe I don’t have one, but those that know me well know that I strongly believe in what’s called Murphy’s Law. And that’s a mindset I have that if I prepare for the worst, it probably won’t happen. But if I prepare for the least, it probably will. So I’m a strong believer in always being prepared for the worst. And you know, it probably goes back to the podcast we did about three or four weeks ago when what happened to our money story and my dad and the worst happened, you know, with the real estate market dropping. I look at that and I look at the same way when I’m buying my coverage. So I always try to get the best. Never do I buy on price, but I buy on protection. Property and casualty, or P and C insurance, generally contains two types of coverage. There’s liability coverage and there’s property protection coverage. P and C is an umbrella term used to describe a number of different types of insurance coverage. So we got homeowners insurance, we’ve got condo insurance, which is what you were describing that protected y’all in Hurricane Harvey, or co op insurance depending on the type of organization or ownership structure. There’s also renter’s insurance, which is if you’re in an apartment or if you’re in a rental home, you’ve got your contents that you want coverage for. So, that’s renter’s insurance. Then we spoke of auto insurance and then there’s insurance for like a recreational vehicle, ATVs, etc. So let’s look at what to consider when choosing insurance coverage for your home and your auto.

Mary Jo: So let’s start with auto coverage. First, let’s look at what auto insurance is. Like most other forms of insurance, it’s a contract between you and the insurance company that protects you against financial loss in the event of an accident or theft involving the covered vehicle. The insurance company agrees to pay your losses, as agreed to in the policy, in exchange for you paying a premium. If you’ve been in an accident or you have young drivers, it’s likely that you’re familiar with the basics regarding automobile insurance coverage. But for those that may not be familiar, we thought it’d be helpful to do a review of the basics. So when preparing for today’s show, even Bob and I learned a thing or two. Auto insurance provides coverage for property such as damage to or theft of your car. It provides for liability, as Bob mentioned, your legal responsibility to others for bodily injury or property damage. And medical, the cost of treating injuries, rehabilitation, and sometimes lost wages and funeral expenses.

Bob: Most States in the U.S., they mandate that if you’re a car owner you’re required to purchase or to carry basic auto insurance. And also if you’re financing your car, your lender that they have their requirements as well. So there’s several common components that we’re going to go over for most insurance auto policies that you really need to look at and these are line items. Now I want to mention as we go through these that you can always go to christianfinancialpodcast.com and pull up this particular podcast. There’ll be a script in there and it’ll have all this listed for you, but these are some of the things that you want to make sure you’re looking at and how much coverage you have. Number one is bodily injury liability, which covers costs associated with injuries or death that you or another driver causes while driving your car. Another one is property damage liability. Now this reimburses others for damage that you or another driver operating your car caused to another vehicle or other property such as a fence, building, or utility pole. Say you hit that fence if you drive off the road too fast or something, so that’s going to cover you there. Third is medical payments. That is so important – medical payments, personal injury protection. They refer to this as PIP and that provides reimbursement for medical expenses for injuries to you or your passengers. And you know I’ve seen really low numbers here and it’s not much more expensive to raise those numbers. I mean raise them even 10x the amount. Mary Jo, what I mean by that, I’ve seen medical payments as low as just $5,000 and you can raise it to $50,000 and it’s just a few dollars more. It is really cheap, and it covers lost wages and other related expenses. Like I say, this is required in most states also.

Bob: Then the fourth thing is collision coverage. This pays for damage to your car, resulting from a collision with another car, which is what most of us buy insurance for, or another object such as a tree or a telephone pole or result of flipping over. In Texas, it’s helpful to know that collisions with deer are covered under comprehension because there’s deer everywhere up here in the Hill Country. It also covers damage caused by potholes. Then another one is comprehensive coverage. This one reimburses you for loss due to theft or damage. So if somebody steals your car, it’s going to be covered or something caused by something other than the collision with another car or object. Comprehensive also covers events such as fire, falling objects; I saw one of these the other day on the weather app. A car was driving along and here comes this big boulder, and it just kills the car. It also covers things like that – falling objects, missiles, explosion, earthquake, windstorm, hail, flood – we have a lot of hail storms up here in Central Texas – floods down there on the coast, vandalism, riots, or even contact with animals such as deer or birds. It also pays to repair your windshield if it’s cracked or shattered. The last thing is uninsured motorist coverage. That reimburses you or a member of your family or a designated driver if one of you is hit by an uninsured driver, and there’s a lot of that going on today, or a driver who doesn’t have sufficient amount of insurance to pay for the total loss. This coverage also offers protection in the event a covered driver is the victim of a hit and run or as a pedestrian you are struck by a uninsured or under insured motorist.

Mary Jo: Some of the common things to know and be aware of when looking at auto insurance, did you know that your credit rating impacts the amount of your premiums. Since the insurer is assessing their risk regarding your ability to pay your premium, this is a tool they use to look at your credit worthiness. So, that’s another reason to keep those credit scores up. Auto insurance coverages are priced individually or a la cart. This allows you to customize coverage amounts to suit your needs and your budget. Collision and comprehensive coverages generally have a separate deductible. Policies are generally issued for six month or one year time frames. Those policies are generally renewable, but they can be canceled if you become a high risk to the underwriter or the insurance provider. They are pulling those driving records. Another thing I could speak to you from experience, but that was way back in the day.

Bob: You even get penalized, though, even if you’re not at fault.

Mary Jo: Oh, that’s right. Absolutely. Your auto policy will cover you and other family members on your policy, whether driving your car or someone else’s car with their permission. Your policy also provides coverage if someone who is not on your policy is driving your car with your consent – loaned it to a friend or a family member. Your personal auto policy only covers personal driving, whether you’re commuting to work, running errands, or taking a trip. It will not provide coverage if you use your car for commercial purposes. For instance, if you deliver pizzas in your spare time.

Bob: So if you’re an Uber driver?

Mary Jo: That’s the next one, and that’s very timely. Personal auto insurance will also not provide coverage if you use your car to provide transportation to others through a ride sharing service such as Uber or Lyft. Some auto insurance, however, are now offering supplemental insurance products, at an additional cost, that extend coverage for vehicle owners providing ride sharing services. So if you know anybody that’s driving for Uber or Lyft, and as it turns out, I have clients that are doing it, I have family members that are doing it, and I hope they’ve got the right insurance.

Bob: Well, I’ll tell you what makes me think of something while you’re talking about that, Mary Jo, is that, well, you know we just went to Florida a few days ago and instead of getting a rental car, I used to Lyft three different times, and I was just thinking about what kind of coverage did I have just being a passenger.

Mary Jo: We were in New York last week and in Montreal and we used Uber everywhere and we didn’t think about that either.

Bob: So that just made us think about it while we were making the podcast. A good thing to think about that we all probably need to look at as so many of us are using one of those two services when we go to a big city and we’re riding around and we need to know what kind of coverage we have on ourselves. That really covered auto insurance in a good way. I mean we really got detailed, but we meant to do that to help you. Again, we want to emphasize there’s a lot of detail here, so go to our podcast website and pull up our script and you’ll see all that information that we went over. So next, let’s look at homeowner’s or renter’s insurance. Just like there are a lot of aspects to consider when choosing the right automobile coverage, there’s also a lot to know and understand about your homeowner’s or renter’s insurance.

Bob: A typical homeowner’s policy covers your belongings and/or the expenses of another individual injured in an accident occurring from your negligence. Property and casualty insurance also provides financial protection in the event of a covered weather incident. So remember to read your insurance policy closely for exact details. What types of weather and natural disasters are covered by homeowners insurance and vary according to where you live and what type of insurance coverage you have. Again, read your policy very carefully to fully understand what is covered and not covered. Many people in our listening area can tell you just how important that is. What is typically not covered is wind damage from a storm. Think tornado and/or hurricane, damage from rising water is also usually not covered, so think flood. And Mary Jo, another one I was thinking of that is not covered, like here in Central Texas, is earthquake insurance, but we have so many quarries around us that make the ground shake like crazy when they’re letting off their explosions throughout the day to get the rock out of those quarries. We’ve got earthquake insurance on my building here.

Mary Jo: You know, that’s so interesting. It’s not even something we think about in Texas, but if you’re in other parts of the country, you do need to think about that.

Bob: And if you’re in an area where they do a lot of fracking,

Mary Jo: Oh yeah, things change.

Bob: Yes, they do.

Mary Jo: Another thing to consider – a lot of our listeners, they live in what I’d call a concrete jungle. What this means is the potential for flooding, it’s getting worse and worse in areas of continual development. Take Houston and Austin, for example. We were in New Braunfels and Austin yesterday coming home from our seminar that we attended, Bob, and it used to be back in the day that between Austin and San Antonio there were a lot of little individual towns like New Braunfels, like San Marcos, but now it’s just wall-to-wall.

Bob: It’s all concrete. They’re taking up every piece of land that they can. Every square foot they see, let’s build something on it.

Mary Jo: The more concrete they pour, the more houses they build, the more streets they pave, the less green space there is, the less ground to absorb rainwater. This can wreck havoc in our neighborhoods and when we get hit with heavy rains both in the spring and fall, it causes trouble. Just look at the flooding we’ve seen recently in Houston. I also recall that tragic event a few years ago in another of our listening areas. I’m sure, Bob, you heard all about this on Memorial Day weekend in 2015, the Blanco River rose to a record 40 feet. The swift rise of the water is known as a flash flood. It’s a term familiar to us Texans. The Texas Hill Country where Wimberley is located is known as “flash flood alley”, and that storm destroyed 350 homes and claimed 13 lives. It was a tragedy of untold proportion.

Bob: Yes, it was. Some of those lives were people in our own church.

Mary Jo: This story, it has so many angles, but for the purpose of the podcast today, we’re using it as an example of how important it is to protect our property. Anything is possible. Flood insurance is becoming a must have for homeowners in our area. In our home in Houston, we were told we lived in a 100 year flood plain. The land in a 100 year flood plain has a 1% chance of flooding in any given year during a hundred year storm. Well 1% that’s not very high. So you never even think about needing flood insurance and we didn’t buy it. We were told we didn’t need it. Yet, we had a levy at the end of our street that was from the Brazos River. We came extremely close to flooding in that Memorial Day flood of 2015, then again due to Hurricane Harvey. It was one block away, that high water. Many of our neighbors were not so lucky. They flooded both times. The point here is to realize that your typical homeowner’s policy does not cover damage due to rising water. After Hurricane Harvey, that was the first thing we did. We bought flood insurance for our home.

Bob: This reminded me of something, Mary Jo. You know, we live here in New Braunfels, and we used to live right across from the Guadalupe River. We built our home one foot above the 100 year flood plain. So, we didn’t need flood coverage, at all, and we didn’t get it. And that was back in my younger years where I didn’t think I needed coverage. You know, I was all about saving money versus getting coverage. Now I could of had a story, but I didn’t. We sold that home about six months before that major flood came and we remembered seeing that home on the news. The water was in the second story of that home. So, there’s an example. Somehow, I get away from these things, you know, six months before that flood and six months before the hurricane came through. The Lord just spared me for some reason. So another risk in Texas, especially along the coast and areas prone to tornadoes, and that’s windstorm insurance, another policy worth its weight in gold. And if you’re unfortunate enough to be impacted by a hurricane or tornado, you definitely need that. If you’re going to own property, we encourage you to think long and hard about your total housing budget. This should include the cost of insurance protection. Don’t just think about the cost of the monthly or annual premium. Think about the cost of not having the needed coverage when disaster strikes. I’m sure there are a lot of families living along the Texas coast that can tell you how much they wish they had thought to have the proper insurance coverage in place after Hurricane Harvey. That’s so unfortunate, you know, to even say that. Given this history, be sure to look at loss of use coverage. This is in case your place becomes uninhabitable. And Mary Jo, I’m thinking about the condos down there and how many people needed to rent those condos.

Mary Jo: Yep.

Bob: That’s what they were relying on, and they’re still not back up and running a couple of years later and they’re still missing out on that. So, while we’re talking about homeowner’s insurance, let’s look at condo and co-op policies and things you need to consider if this impacts you. As a condo or co-op owner, you’re only responsible for the stuff from the sheetrock walls inward, including built-in appliances, bookshelves, etc. Homeowners, on the other hand, are responsible for the entire structure. So common areas such as stairways, elevators, laundry rooms, water pipes, electrical wires, roofs, along the building itself, surrounding grounds, all fall under the HOA’s master insurance policy. This also includes fish cleaning stands, swimming pools, and tennis courts. Picture it this way. Take a condo, turn it upside down. What falls out is your responsibility for covering. What stays in there, the HOA is responsible for. This is a general rule of thumb and another great lesson learned from Hurricane Harvey.

Mary Jo: That poor storm. It’s getting blamed for everything, but what lessons we’ve learned from it.

Bob: Well, it’s one of the biggest ones in 50 years to hit – 50 or 60 years, so we still remember it.

Mary Jo: Yes, absolutely. As I mentioned earlier, many of our podcast listeners are retirees or those planning to retire soon, so this is one of those FYI’s that maybe it doesn’t impact you now, but you might have a family member or it may in the future. These are some important things to consider. If you’re thinking of purchasing a condo or you’re involved in the homeowner’s association of any kind, make sure you fully understand the scope of the insurance policy that they are supposed to provide for the members of the association. Around here in Rockport, not every condo association had a good policy in place. Some of them didn’t even have coverage. Some things that are important when looking at a homeowner’s association policy, you want to look at the master policy. Is it a bare walls policy or an all-in or all-inclusive policy? And we’re going to talk about some of the things that that may mean to you. The all-in policy covers any upgrades to your unit. This type of homeowner’s association policy includes full restoration of your unit to the condition it was just prior to the covered loss. This includes any custom finishes, built-ins, etc. It was really interesting because our complex was built in the 1970’s. It was all wood. It was all cedar. It had no upgrades from windstorm coverage in recent years, but we had done a ton of renovations. As you know, that unit was completely customized inside and out. So was our insurance coverage from the HOA gonna cover all the upgrades in what we bought? Actually, it did.

Bob: Oh, did it really?

Mary Jo: It did, and we were so fortunate. Man, that was the hand of God, but it was also due to our treasurer. He was a nuts and bolts kind of guy, and he bought us a great policy. Thank you, Tom. I’ll have to make sure he listens to this. So the policy did cover all the upgrades in the unit. Again, a plus. You also want to be aware of the deductible of the master policy. Does the HOA have enough cash reserves to cover this in case of a claim? If there’s a policy, they can’t dip into it. Hopefully in the bylaws that’s spelled out. So what if they had those funds set aside and then they decided, “Oh, we need to repave the parking lot,” and they dipped into those funds for something and then it wasn’t there when it was needed? If you’re on a board, these are some things to think about. Again, what is the age of the complex and the type of materials used? Is it cedar siding or hardy board siding? Is it brand new and up to current windstorm requirements or is it 50 years old? So, all those things play in. Another interesting thing is assessment coverage. This may or may not apply to normal assessments or catastrophe assessments. Some of these condo owners are getting hit with huge assessments, some over $25,000.

Bob: Wow. That’s a lot of money.

Mary Jo: And that’s just the first one. You also want to know is it going to be replaced with actual cash value or replacement cost value. And as we talked about earlier, loss of use coverage. Are you planning on renting your unit and if so, will a loss of rental income be covered during a disaster? We’re two years out, and those owners still are not able to get back into their condos.

Bob: As I’m listening to this, I think we need to send this podcast to HGTV for beachfront property.

Mary Jo: Oh, there you go.

Bob: Because they don’t realize all these things that they need to be looking at when you’re looking at properties, especially in areas that are prone to have a hurricane or flood or fire. I mean, oh gosh, think about California and all the fires that have been out there.

Mary Jo: Absolutely. Just a few months before the hurricane, we had had a fire in a unit and those owners were out for quite a while. You also want to look at increased cost of construction or ICC coverage as it’s known. Does the policy only cover what it would take to bring the building back to what it was when you purchased it or will it also cover the increased costs due to updated code requirements? That’s one of the things after the recent storms. Codes in our cities and towns are so much more stringent, and so many properties around here if they had more than 50% damage, they had to raise them six feet. So that’s a new code requirement that meant completely rebuilding. So do you have that kind of coverage? Just think about all the condo complexes that were impacted by the recent storms and imagine the financial impact of being told you had to bring the whole building up to code in case of a disaster such as a fire, a flood, or hurricane.

Bob: Well, as we’ve been going over this. I’m thinking about this. You need a checklist.

Mary Jo: You do.

Bob: We’ve been covering all these things that you need to think about, but as I’m listening to this and then I’m thinking from our listeners’ perspectives, unless they’re writing all this down, they really need a good checklist. Again, I want to say, we’re going to put this on our podcast’s website. So it’s got this checklist that you can look at and go into. You’re going to be glad you did, especially if you have something bad happened. Try to look at it like Murphy’s Law, but have the coverage and hope it doesn’t happen. Gosh, we’ve covered a lot, but before we go, we really need to look at one last thing, and that’s the icing on the cake. It’s one of the things I consider actually one of the most important types of insurance coverage, and that’s umbrella liability coverage. One of the most overlooked, yet most important, insurance coverages is an umbrella liability policy.

Bob: I have a really good one for myself. Just think of it as an umbrella over all your policies. It’s for extra liability insurance coverage that goes beyond the limits of your basic home, auto, or watercraft insurance. In today’s sue happy society, this is extremely important. Everyone’s quick to find fault with someone else and quick to sue for damages. So umbrella liability policy provides an additional layer of security to those who are at risk for being sued for damages to other people’s property or injuries caused to others in an accident. It also protects against libel, vandalism, slander, and invasion of privacy. An umbrella policy is very helpful when the insurance owner is sued and the dollar limit on the original policies have been exhausted. The added coverage provided by that liability insurance is most useful to individuals who own a lot of assets, are very expensive assets, and are at a significant risk for being sued.

Mary Jo: I take it a step further to say that most middle class families should consider this type of coverage.

Bob: I would too.

Mary Jo: Let’s look at some common everyday situations. Do you have any of the following? Kids that play in your yard; a dog, especially a dog that’s at risk of biting someone;

Bob: I want to say something in there before you go on. Okay. Our oldest daughter, Jenna, that helps with this podcast and she’ll hear this as she edits our podcast. When she was very young, she was playing at one of her friend’s house, and Jenna loves animals, and the dog bit her right in the face, and the insurance policy came in and helped pay for the doctors and we got her with a great doctor, and she looks fantastic today. You never could tell that a dog bit her in her forehead, but I’m glad that they had coverage for that.

Mary Jo: Think about how many stories you hear about pit bulls attacking people. That’s just scary to think about. Do you have a sidewalk in front of your house? Do you live in an old house that has exposed tree roots? Somebody could trip on that. Do you have teenage drivers? That’s a story in itself and I don’t think we have time for that, but if you’ve got teenage drivers, you need a liability policy. And do you have drivers of any age that are at risk of driving distracted? And who isn’t guilty of this? Do you have a boat or a personal watercraft? A pool or a trampoline? These are what are known as attractive nuisances and even if you have a fence on your property, these can attract the attention of the neighborhood kids, and you are liable if an accident happens on your property, even if you didn’t invite them on your property. It’s kinda like an invitation to come play, and you have to protect yourself. So, having this additional coverage is critical for our homeowner today. You get the picture. The larger your footprint, the more risk you have. I heard this interesting story just a few weeks ago. I’m sure some of our listeners may have heard about it, too. I watch Shark Tank all the time. It’s one of my husband and I, it’s one of our favorite shows.

Bob: I love that show too.

Mary Jo: Did you hear about one of the sharks was involved in a boating accident in Canada and it left another person not only injured but a passenger in the other boat was killed? A very unfortunate story, but it’s a great example of how a high profile individual, a likely target of a potential lawsuit, was involved in an activity with a high risk level. Well, I’m sorry to hear about it, but I’m guessing they were very glad that they had liability coverage in that situation and if it were to happen to you, you would want it too.

Bob: I sure would. In the end here, we’ve covered so much about protection and are you protected? You need to get a good insurance agent. Now, Mary Jo and I, we don’t sell a property and casualty insurance, which makes it even more fun to do the podcast because we really don’t have a vested interest in this, but we do have a vested interest in you, our listeners, to make sure that you’re protected. We’ve looked at property and casualty insurance primarily from an individual’s perspective. However, if you’re a small business owner, it’s extremely important as well. The right P and C coverages can make a huge difference when it comes to protecting yourself and/or your business. So remember, when it comes to your personal insurance, your premium is a small price to pay when it comes to true protection.

[CONCLUSION]

Mary Jo: You’ve been listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us next week as we explore more about how to apply biblical wisdom to your financial situations.

Bob: To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts, you can subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. To learn more about integrating your faith with your finances, visit out website at ciswealth.com or call 830-609-6986.

Mary Jo: That’s all for now until next week.

[DISCLOSURES]

Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

What does your money style say about you?

More episodes >>

Everyone has a story to tell about their history with money, but we also have a money style that may stem from this history. Our money style reflects how we view money. A money style or money personality can be described in a number of different ways, including: big spenders, savers, shoppers, debtors, or investors.

Do we believe that God owns it all and it’s our duty to be good stewards of it? Whether you hide it in a mattress, spend it like crazy, obsess over every purchase, or simply stick your head in the sand, money tends to bring out the emotions in all of us. Only when we begin to understand what drives our money behavior when it comes to decisions can we begin to make changes.

HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

[INTRODUCTION]

Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

Bob: Ecclesiastes 5:10-15 – I love this scripture before I get to it, cause you know it was written by Solomon, one of the wealthiest men to ever live in the history of the world. So here we go. Here’s what it says, “Those who love money will never have enough. How meaningless to think that wealth brings true happiness. The more you have, the more people come to help you spend it. So what good is wealth except perhaps to watch it slip through your fingers. People who work hard sleep well, whether they eat little or much, but the rich seldom get a good night’s sleep. There is another serious problem I’ve seen under the sun. Hoarding riches harms the savior. Money is put into risky investments that turns sour and everything is lost. In the end, there is nothing left to pass on to one’s children. We all come to the end of our lives as naked and empty handed as on the day we were born, we can’t take our riches with us.” So ends the scripture today from Ecclesiastes 5:10-15. What a great scripture to start today off with as we talk about our money style.

Mary Jo: Thanks for sharing that one, Bob. It is a great scripture. And if you’re a regular listener to Christian Financial Perspectives and we hope you are, you may have listened to a recent podcast episode, “What Is Your Money History?” We all have a story to tell about our history with money. We also have a money style that stems from this money history and it’s about who we are and how we view our money. As we discussed many times on the podcast, money has the potential to be an emotional minefield. Hmm…I think that’s so true.

Bob: It does. It can get very emotional.

Mary Jo: It does. Whether you squirrel it away, spend it like crazy, obsess over every purchase, or simply sticking your head in the sand, money brings out the emotion in all of us.

Bob: So if we can begin to understand what drives our behavior about money when it comes to it and those decisions, then we can begin to make changes. We need to understand a couple of things. That money is just a tool. For some, they never have enough of it, no matter how much. It is not something to be feared – you gotta be careful – it can consume you if you let it. It’s best viewed from a perspective of gratitude when you have it. So as we dig deeper and explore our feelings today about money, we need to ask ourselves, what does it mean to me? How does it make me feel when I spend money or save it? What does it say about me and do we believe that God owns it all and it’s our duty to be good stewards of it?

Mary Jo: Are you in the camp that believes money means love, security, control, power, or even self esteem? My intellectual self knows this is nothing but a myth, but my emotional self understands this also drives my behavior when it comes to money. Your money style or money personality can be described in a number of different ways. One resource points out that our money style or money personality is big spender, savers, shoppers, debtors, or investors. Another resource identifies money styles as order, saver, spender, spend thrift, or steward.

Bob: No matter where you fall, it’s safe to say that much in life like moderation and self-awareness are the keys when it comes to money, and small changes can deliver some really big results. Today we’re going to explore four of the money styles which are spender, saver, debtor, and steward, and we’re going to look at what the differences are in these four money styles, personality types, and how they impact your money choices.

Mary Jo: And while you may not be able to change your money personality, you can acknowledge it and address the financial challenges that it presents. Managing your money involves self awareness. Knowing where you stand will allow you to modify your behavior to better achieve your financial goals. For saver, this is particularly good advice. Don’t let all the fun parts of life pass you by just to save a few more dollars. For some, they need to ask the questions themselves. How much is enough? A spender is just the opposite, and it’s all about the fun, never thinking about the future of the longterm consequences. However you view yourself when it comes to money, you need to understand how your money style impacts your financial life as well as your personal life. It can also impact your relationships, especially a marriage. When you’re not in spousal unity, money decisions can interfere with marital harmony. Couples who have opposite money styles could be in for a tumultuous relationship. Their money lives will most certainly be a source of conflict, unless they can perfect the art of communication and establish boundaries that work for both parties. You may want to listen to our podcast number 25 and 26 titled “All In The Family”. In those podcasts, we share insight on how to have those tough money conversations with the ones you love the most.

Bob: Now let’s dig a little deeper into these four different money styles. We’re going to start again first with the spenders. And spenders, they love to spend money freely as well as foolishly many times. They enjoy spending money on themselves for goods and services that can give them that immediate gratification. But you know it’s interesting, spenders, they also like to get satisfaction from spending money on others and buying gifts for others. I think this might stem from, “Look at how much I have.” They have a hard time saving money and putting anything aside for emergencies and longterm financial goals. They seem to spend most, or all, of the money they earn. They could even be, and most likely are, in debt. The last thing about a spender, they hate living by a budget.

Mary Jo: The second money style we want to share is the saver. Savers are the opposite of spenders. Just like hoarders hoard stuff, a saver can be guilty of hoarding cash. So Bob, do you know anybody like that?

Bob: Yes, I do. Most definitely, and they don’t have any fun.

Mary Jo: They have fun hoarding their cash, and they carry it around in a wheelbarrow. I just had that vision. This is especially true after difficult time with money, a period of scarcity or market crash, or even just a volatile market. Savers are money accumulators. They like to see their piles of money grow. They are happiest when they have large amounts of money at their disposal to spend, to save, and to invest. Savers tend to equate their net worth with their self-worth. A lack of money may lead to feelings of failure and even depression. Savers can be overly detailed as to where every single cent goes. They enjoy making their own financial decisions. They may have a tendency to be controlling and they can become overly obsessed with how much money they have, and it’s never enough. Just a little bit more, they’ll say.

Bob: They are the life of the party, aren’t they?

Mary Jo: They are.

Bob: Okay, so we’ve gone through spenders and savers. The third money style is the debtor. This is going to be really interesting. They foolishly presume upon the future and they have a hard time balancing their checkbook, paying their bills promptly, doing their taxes on time, living on a budget and keeping up with spending, keeping up with how much money they truly have, how much they owe, and how much they really spend. They avoid investing money. They do not like talking about budgeting and they’re often overdue on their payments and end up being hounded by collection agencies. Now, that’s not a fun way to live either. So what’s really interesting is that often we see reformed debtors become savers once they’ve learned from the error of their ways. Debtors that have gotten in too deep, they decide to live the exactly the opposite and they can go to the extreme the other way, like the saver. So, we’ve seen two extremes here.

Mary Jo: You’ve been listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. You know that Bob and I often like to share insights from thought leaders in the space where financial wisdom intersects biblical wisdom. The authors John Cortines and Gregory Baumer share the following in their book “True Riches, What Jesus Really Said About Money And Your Heart” : “When our income is lower, we limit our spending to achieve margin or cushion. When our income is higher, we limit our spending to honor the principle of enough. These two principles will help us follow Christ’s plan for contentment in our lives and will slowly but surely help us break free from habits of coveting. This supports the theory that we can easily go from debtor or spender to saver. And if we’re not careful, this can verge on coveting, coveting of our stuff as a spender and coveting of money as a saver.” In chapter four in their book titled “From Anxiety To Trust”, “Therefore do not be anxious saying, what shall we eat or what shall we drink or what shall we wear, but seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be added to you.” And this is Jesus speaking in Matthew 6:31-33.

Bob: So I thought I would mention that book again. That’s called “True Riches”, and were you there at the Kingdom Advisors conference when they spoke?

Mary Jo: Yes. It was very powerful.

Bob: It was. It was extremely powerful. The last money style that all of us as Christians should strive to be like is that of a steward. There’s actually a money style that’s called a steward. So, Mary Jo, share some of those virtues of a steward.

Mary Jo: A steward looks at all of their resources, their time, talent, treasure, truth, and relationships and how they can be used to accomplish God’s goals and objectives, not their own. I love that they look at relationships as part of their resources.

Bob: Yeah, me too.

Mary Jo: That’s awesome.

Bob: Yes.

Mary Jo: A steward gives proportionately, is not in bondage to a particular lifestyle, and pays their taxes with integrity with a spirit of Thanksgiving as part of God’s provision. A steward sets financial goals and alignment with biblical principles; feels they are accountable for all that God has given them. A steward manages everything God has entrusted to them for his glory. In Matthew 25:14-30, the parable of the three servants, we realize God calls us to be faithful with the management of all he has given us and that we will be held accountable in eternity. And if you’re not familiar with that scripture, I encourage you to look it up. It’s quite long, so we didn’t want to actually read the scripture, but it’s a good one to look at.

Bob: I want to say one thing that was in there too, Mary Jo, as you were talking is that a steward pays their taxes with integrity with a spirit of Thanksgiving as part of God’s provision. I remember hearing that at the “Kingdom Advisors” conference from Rob Blue, bestselling author of Christian finance, and Ron was the founder also of Kingdom Advisors, and I tell you, I used to complain so much about the taxes I used to pay and when he said it that way, “That’s part of God’s provision. Don’t complain about it.” I was convicted.

Mary Jo: Well, let me just also say, when it comes to taxes, it’s one thing to pay it with the fact of a grateful heart, but we don’t have to pay more than we have to, if that makes sense.

Bob: Exactly, yes. So a steward lastly, they choose to allow God’s financial blessings to be used for kingdom purposes and kingdom work, and they apply those principles of Matthew 6:19-21. They look at it like this. I’m not going to store for myself treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal it. But I’m going to store up treasures in heaven where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves cannot break in or steal it. For where your treasure is there your heart will be also. Again, that’s Matthew 6:19-21. It’s a pretty well known scripture that we have heard a lot throughout my years of being involved in biblical money management.

Mary Jo: So for where your treasure is there your heart will be also.

Bob: Yes.

Mary Jo: So there you have it. Which money style are you – the spender, just living for today; the saver, living for the future; the debtor, presuming upon the future; or the steward where you pray and seek God’s will before making major spending decisions because you believe God is the owner and you are the manager. You recognize that major financial decisions are also spiritual decisions and you ask yourself, what would God have me do before acting on those decisions?

Bob: So I’d like to leave you with a thought to end today’s podcast on. But before I do, I’d like to share this scripture with you from 2 Peter 3:8, “But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like one day.” So with this scripture mind, always live your life like Jesus is coming back tomorrow, but plan your life like he’s coming back in a thousand years.

[CONCLUSION]

Mary Jo: You’ve been listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us next week as we explore more about how to apply biblical wisdom to your financial situations.

Bob: To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts, you can subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. To learn more about integrating your faith with your finances, visit out website at ciswealth.com or call 830-609-6986.

Mary Jo: That’s all for now until next week.

[DISCLOSURES]

Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

How does your money history affect your money future?

More episodes >>

Money is an emotional topic, and everyone has a money history, whether they realize it or not. Bob and Mary Jo discuss their financial past and how it changed the way that they view money today. They explore money histories and how they impact behavior.

Money can bring up feelings and memories from the past that often make us uncomfortable, so they ask some pertinent questions including:

HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

[INTRODUCTION]

Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

Bob: Deuteronomy 32:7, “Remember the days of long ago. Think about the generations past. Ask your father and he will inform you. Inquire of your elders, and they will tell you.” So on today’s episode of Christian Financial Perspectives, we’re going to be exploring our money histories and how that impacts all our behaviors, including mine. We’re going to tell you about our personal money story, and why we have a money history, Mary Jo and I both, and how money impacted our life growing up. So we hope as you listen to this, you’ll be able to relate to how it shaped us, how we were influenced by money, or maybe the lack of it. What are the patterns, the beliefs, the behaviors that we witness, and what have you witnessed about money? So before we get into the money histories, it’s interesting to see that money itself has a history.

Mary Jo: You know, Bob, I found a little bit of trivia regarding money as we were putting together the podcast. I thought it was quite interesting.

Bob: Oh, I love this stuff you’re going to share. It’s really great.

Mary Jo: Did you know that China created the world’s first paper money?

Bob: No, I didn’t.

Mary Jo: Another really interesting one is the Inca. They built a great empire without the use of money. From the age of 15, Inca males were required to provide physical labor to the state for a set number of days. They built public buildings, palaces, roads, all kinds of physical labor they were required to do and in return, the government provided all the basic necessities of life – food, clothing, tools, housing. That kind of relates to today, and that’s probably a whole other podcast, but that’s kind of interesting. The idea of work for money.

Bob: It’s different than collecting welfare. Most definitely.

Mary Jo: Yes, yes. And in medieval times, medieval merchants developed an early version of the credit card. It was called a tally stick. On each of the sticks, they broke them in half. They marked on each of them. And so the debtor took one part of the stick and the person that owed the money took the other part of the stick. And when they paid it back, they brought their sticks back together and scratched through the marks.

Bob: Where did you find this stuff?

Mary Jo: Google is a wonderful tool.

Bob: Oh yeah. Okay.

Mary Jo: Even in Russia, in Czarist Russia, they created a tax payable only in animal fur. That’s interesting.

Bob: Well that wouldn’t go very well with the animal activists today.

Mary Jo: No, it wouldn’t.

Bob: You know, Paul played a key role in the creation of the early American currency. He was one of the colonies’ premier silversmiths. So, he designed the engraving plates for the first continental currency. Now, Mary Jo, you got this information for me and I did not know that either. This is really fun stuff. The first gold rush in American history, guess where that took place? It wasn’t in Colorado or Nevada. It was in North Carolina. Not even California. I didn’t know that. By the early 19th century, more than 30,000 North Carolineans were mining for gold. You know, I’ve never heard this, I guess. Did you find this or did you know this already from your history book?

Mary Jo: No, I lived in North Carolina, and I had no idea. And in fact, Charlotte, where we lived, was one of the first mints where they formed coins, which I didn’t know either. Obviously money has an incredible history.

Bob: So in the early 19th century, it was the largest profession behind farming?

Mary Jo: In the state of North Carolina.

Bob: Wow. I never knew. Well now we all know our history, don’t we?

Mary Jo: Absolutely. This is just the tip of the iceberg. If you have an interest, I encourage you to go look it up because there’s all kinds of interesting facts on the history of money. And you think about it, every country that uses its own currency has its own history.

Bob: Yes.

Mary Jo: You know, I think Bob, that it’s safe to say that money’s an emotional topic.

Bob: No…Money’s emotional? [Laughing].

Mary Jo: It can be. [Laughing]

Bob: I never would have thought that. [Laughing]

Mary Jo: It’s emotional for many reasons. It brings up feelings and memories from our past that make us uncomfortable a lot of the times. Many of us were raised that money, it’s like politics and religion, and conversation topics best avoided in polite company. So a lot of us never really learn how to talk about money without conflict because we just didn’t do it. Money conversations, they can be an emotional battlefield. I’m thinking you know about that.

Bob: Mmm hmm. Are we gonna be transparent here today?

Mary Jo: Yes we are.

Bob: Hey listeners out there in podcast land. We’re just like you.

Mary Jo: That’s right.

Bob: None of us are perfect, so just stay with us.

Mary Jo: This is all because we all have a money history or baggage that we carry around with us. I know I do. Since Christian Financial Perspectives is all about how we can utilize the Bible for wisdom about money, we thought it would be helpful to explore some of the emotions we feel about money and then we might be better equipped to look for wisdom on how to best deal with some of these issues. In today’s episode, we’re going to be talking about our money stories, and next week we’re going to explore our money styles. So stay tuned. That one’s going to be another interesting one. So did you know you also had a money style? To understand why we view money like we do, we first have identify and examine our relationship with money. How do you feel about money? What do you believe about money? How do you use money? “Why is this important?” You may ask. Your thoughts and beliefs drive your emotions, and your emotions drive your actions. Your actions lead to your results, your financial results, to where you are right now in your money journey.

Bob: Can I say that one more time? What you just said? So your thoughts and beliefs drive your emotions, and your emotions drive your actions. I think that’s really good.

Mary Jo: Absolutely. We’re just like you. We also have money histories. So in the nature of transparency, we thought it would be interesting to share some of that with you. So Bob, what’s your family’s legacy regarding money? We all have one. I know I certainly do.

Bob: Well, I do have a history definitely. And I first one to say that I grew up with an incredible, wonderful, loving dad, but he was taught some things back in college in the 1950s that really shaped my view of money later as I saw how what he was taught could be setting yourself up for failure. So what was he taught? Well, he was taught that one of the best ways to get wealthy was by owning your own business. I believe in that. I believe in free enterprise and in real estate, which is a good, you know, good way to make money by hard work. But he was also taught using a term back then and, Mary Jo, had you heard this term growing up too?

Mary Jo: No, I haven’t.

Bob: OPM. Okay, so my dad always used this term called OPM. It meant Other People’s Money or using banks and savings and loans. Back then, you remember it was called the savings and loan?

Mary Jo: Absolutely. I remember the crash of the savings and loan.

Bob: Yes. So I’m going to share that with you later, but he was taught to use OPM and accumulate as much real estate as you possibly could no matter how much leverage and debt it meant taking on. Now, that’s a scary thought when you think about that. I mean OPM was a term I heard over and over growing up, and it was the way to prosperity and that was a belief system. It wasn’t just my dad, but it was the belief of a whole generation back then that real estate would always go up, up, up, but never down. Now I could see a lot of people were starting to feel that way here. That is never going to go down. And by the way, we’re from Central Texas, and I can remember growing up as a boy going with my dad to see all the different properties we owned and how they were doing. Besides accumulating as much real estate as he could, he also owned a large real estate company with numerous brokers. He was a huge appraiser too. He appraised many properties on top of all that. He had a large staff to serve him and take care of him, and I just don’t know how he got all the energy to do what he did, but he did. He started in the real estate profession right out of college in the late 1950s and continued until he was over 70 years old. My dad passed away four years ago, but he loved real estate. In my younger years, watching the way he and his business partners and friends did business started to shape my mode of thinking about money and using OPM, other people’s money, until I saw a huge flaw in it and how that way of thinking about money totally devastated my dad and so many of his close friends and business acquaintances in the 1980s. Because in the 1980s, real estate crashed and they all lost a lifetime of accumulating properties because they leveraged themselves so much that their plans for retirement in the mid 1980s of having millions of dollars in accumulated real estate holdings, just totally class when the markets did.

Bob: I watched these great men that were some of the nicest guys you would ever meet one by one, literally Mary Jo, declare bankruptcy.

Mary Jo: Such a sad story, Bob.

Bob: It was devastating. Most of them were in their mid fifties to early sixties and they lost everything because they were over leveraged, including my own dad, and he was such a wonderful father. And before the crash, he owned numerous apartments, rental homes. I remember it was somewhere around 25 to 30 rental homes he owned. As these values declined in the 80s below loan values and vacancies came about, the payments, because the leverage could not be made. And I watched all this in bewilderment, and it shaped the way I thought about money going forward and that leverage and real estate and overleveraging in my early twenties was not the way to do it. I never wanted to go through what I saw happen to my dad and so many of his close friends and business acquaintances.

Mary Jo: When we were talking about the show, I shared with you my feelings on the word leverage or margin. When I first got into the financial services business was back in before 2000, and in 2000 it was Y2K and it was the technology boom. As a young broker in the business at that point in time, I worked at Charles Schwab. For example, and we had a lot of clients that used margin to buy more stocks on, and they all wanted to load up on the tech stocks and the telecom stocks and they used margin in their accounts in order to buy more. And then when it crashed, they all had margin calls, and they were forced to liquidate or come up with cash and this bankrupted a lot of investors. So, I’ve always cringed at that word because it makes me think of gambling and I know that it’s a technique and a lot of investors do use it, but leverage is one of those things can become a real slippery slope. It’s a tool, but you have to use it in reason, just like you’ve shared.

Bob: We’re moving into our new home now, and I’m using leverage to lift a lot of things. I mean, I’m using, you know, the hand trucks and the dolly and I’m using leverage, but I’m not over leveraging. I’m not trying to lift 2000 pounds with that. I’m lifting 250 pounds with that because if the leverage doesn’t work, it’s not going to come crashing on me because it’s not that much. So, I’m not saying that leverage is all bad, but over leveraging, oh my goodness. It really shaped the way I thought about money in the future, at such an early age, seeing how leverage can hurt you. And also it shaped how I felt about real estate and that real estate, it can crash. Using other people’s money and the bank and over leveraging is not the way to build a real estate portfolio. And what’s amazing is I’m seeing all this happen again here in Central Texas because we basically missed that crash of 2008, and it’s been like 30 years since our last real correction in real estate here. And I can see people are becoming way over confident in paying outlandish prices just like they did before the crash in the mid eighties all the way up and down the I-35 corridor. And I can see you want to say something in the middle there.

Mary Jo: Well, when you think about it and you see all these huge homes and so many of them right now in that area, all I can think about is 100% financing. And you think about what that did in 2008 and it wasn’t so much that the real estate came down, but people got into trouble or got laid off and then they had to go to try to sell their house and it wasn’t worth what they owed on it. Just look at the longterm impact that had on the economy. Gah, there’s so much wisdom here.

Bob: There is. Mary Jo, in the 1980s right here where we live in New Braunfels, between Austin and San Antonio, you know, it’s one of the hottest spots in the nation right now. I mean we’ve been the second fastest growing city of our size for about the last five to seven years.

Mary Jo: It’s amazing the growth in that area.

Bob: It is. In the 80s, it started doing this and it crashed and it took five to seven years just to get back to a break even point. And I mean, they were selling homes. I remember in a subdivision, this is cheap when you hear this today, but they were selling homes at $130,000 to $140,000 in a subdivision right here in town called Summerwood. And we came in and they were building homes at $80,000 and $90,000 so you know, you think about the percentage just a year or two later, they could build a home that cheap because it crashed so hard. So it took many years for it to get back up to where they were just at a break even point. And this reminds me, though, about this over leveraging of Proverbs 22:27 as I was thinking about this, “If you lack the means to pay, your very bed will be snatched out from under you. And that really affected, you know, my money history and going forward is do not over leverage yourself. So Mary Jo, I know you have a story.

Mary Jo: Well I do. I’m just like everybody else, you know. So, money shapes us from an early age. My mother, she was born in 1929. What happened in 1929, Bob?

Bob: Huge crash. It all came crashing down.

Mary Jo: It did. She was born the youngest of 11 on a farm in Indiana in the first year of the Great Depression. And you just think about how that shaped so many of our clients and our listeners and their mindset about money for the rest of their lives. Her father lost the farm and they were forced to move into town when she was a girl. Her older siblings had to go to work to help support the family. Interestingly, back in that day, they were a big Catholic family and in those days and still today, a lot of Catholics believe that they want one of their family members to become a nun or become a priest or join the convent. And she was the one chosen and she went to go live with an aunt who was a nun and she grew up in a convent boarding school. The convent was part of the Franciscan order and thus the nuns had taken a vow of poverty. So she grew up with less is more attitude. When she left the convent, she married my dad after college. They met in college, but she had no real history of money other than that it was scarce and you didn’t need much. She also had no concept of budgeting or how money worked. She never had to deal with any of this. Then my dad took over and continued to pay the bills. Her experience with the nuns taught her that prayer was the answer to everything. So whenever there was a struggle with money in our house growing up, and there were plenty, her answer was silent prayers. She never spoke about it much. She just prayed about it. And that’s a good thing. I don’t want to underestimate the power of prayer.

Bob: This is a really interesting story, though, coming back into your money history. Wow.

Mary Jo: It is, and I do believe in the power of prayer, but there were overwhelming medical bills when I was a baby due to some health issues that my brothers had, and my parents were finally able to buy a small house, but they had to choose their location very carefully. It had to be close enough to walk to work, to walk to church, walk to the grocery store, walk to the doctor, etc. So, we didn’t have a car until I was in the fourth grade. And interestingly, both my parents worked. They both worked two jobs, but they also coordinated their schedules so that one of them was always home with us. We never had to rely on babysitters because they couldn’t afford that. But they walked to their two jobs or took the bus.

Bob: And this was all in Corpus Christi, right?

Mary Jo: This was all in Corpus Christi.

Mary Jo: It’s funny how we don’t think about this type of sacrifice these days.

Bob: No, not at all.

Mary Jo: And I’m sure that’s not true in all communities, but we never think about public transportation or walking to the doctor. So our priorities have changed so much. And what’s interesting is my husband was raised very differently. He was an only child and quite spoiled when it came to money. I’m not talking out of school. It’s just something we share openly because it impacted why we got in financial services and our careers later in life.

Bob: Now I know why Mike and I relate so well together.

Mary Jo: And you know what’s funny is he had chores, he had responsibilities, but even though we had chores and he had a small lawn cutting business and those kinds of things and his mom always made him go get summer jobs, but they also continued to foot his spending bills, even until after college. He had a credit card that belonged to his parents, and he used it and they never stopped him from using it until after we were married. In fact, back in our dating life, I always thought it was he that was paying for our dates. It didn’t occur to me that his mom and dad were footing the bill for all that. Who knew? I didn’t.

Bob: You never thanked them, huh?

Mary Jo: No. But later on I did thank them cause we enjoyed a good life. But it became very clear in short order that he didn’t know how to budget, and I didn’t really know how to budget that much. We began to live way beyond our means. We had older friends that were more financially secure. We had moved to Austin. We moved to Houston, but we always wanted to come back home to see our friends and family.

Bob: Wanted to keep up with all those friends, right?

Mary Jo: We did. And we never thought about how much the gasoline was costing, how much the car maintenance was costing, and all the cost of all that travel back and forth. Yeah, we were newly married. We wanted to accumulate stuff. So we had lots of fun in our twenties and thirties. We accumulated stuff. We did a lot of travel. We ate out and we put it all on credit cards. We woke up one day, and we’re like, whoa. We had creditors calling us. We were behind on everything. It was quite a crisis. There was help though, and his parents, they helped us out. They bailed us out, gave us money to pay it all off. But because there wasn’t, you know, there was no skin in the game for us. We weren’t held accountable. We ended up doing it all over again.

Bob: Oh goodness. That happens to so many people.

Mary Jo: It does. We had to do it on our own. So, after years of hard work, we went to consumer credit counseling. We tore up our credit cards, and we learned to live on cash. It took a long time to dig out of this hole. We were doing without. We were living on cash, and it was hard.

Bob: Now I know why you’re so adamant about budgeting.

Mary Jo: I am. And we pay cash for everything. And it took us four years to get out from underneath that debt. That’s why I made the move to financial services. I didn’t know what a stock was and a bond, but I knew I wanted a different life. And I learned about financial planning and how important it is to understand your money history and how it impacts your decision making. So now it’s my passion to help other people avoid the pitfalls that my husband and I learned, and that’s why I love financial planning.

Bob: So even though y’all were making really good money between the two of you, probably, you still got in that credit debt?

Mary Jo: We did. Yeah. As we’ve mentioned on the show before, the love of money is the root of all evil, so the Bible says. Money conflicts have ruined more marriages than pretty much anything else. It almost ruined mine. We didn’t talk well about money. We fought well about money, and I’m grateful that with patience and time we learned to communicate about it better. We stayed committed, and we both worked at it. With time and motivation, we were able to educate ourselves and learn from our mistakes. Now, we can communicate effectively – usually. Our filing system is still a challenge, and we plan. We continue to budget. We have regular meetings to review everything together, and we talk about our financial priorities and what we want that to look like.

Bob: And tell our podcast listeners how long y’all have been married.

Mary Jo: 37 years.

Bob: Amen to that. Rachael and I’ve been married 35, and it’s interesting as I was listening to you tell your story and about Mike too. I grew up, as you know, leverage was just fine and I was kind of spoiled myself. I wasn’t just kind of. I was, but I think I could have gone down that path had I not seen how the leverage through the real estate in that massive bubble breaking. I think I could’ve gone down that path myself, but then I saw how leverage hurt so much. So I want to tell you, it’s funny and you mentioned your story, I could relate to some of that. I didn’t go there, thank goodness, but I could see myself possibly going that route had the real estate market not crashed and I saw my dad go through that. Does that make sense?

Mary Jo: Absolutely. Glad you didn’t have to because it was an expensive lesson.

Bob: Yeah. Yes.

Mary Jo: As most of them are.

Bob: There you go, folks. Those are our stories. I want you to think about your story. Was there a defining moment around money that shaped your future? Has your family experienced sudden wealth or financial success or just the opposite of that? What memories do you have of your parents discussing money, and I know that can be painful with some people. My parents, they never discussed it by the way. I never saw my parents talk about it. Did they argue about money or did one parent have a different view on spending and saving than the other?

Mary Jo: Bob, there were a lot of dishes slammed in my house growing up. That’s how they communicated. Mom slammed doors.

Bob: Thanks for your transparency because, Mary Jo, I have a feeling that some other folks may be able to relate to that. And what are your earliest memories about money? Mine was they just gave me a lot, and my grandparents were the same way. They just say, “Here, you know, go spend it.” And so there was no budget. There was no concept of it. But at the same time, my dad taught me that free enterprise is absolutely awesome, and so I was always trying to make money at the same time. Do you have any unhappy memories about money from your childhood until now? What emotions did your family associate with money? How would you define the status of your family growing up? Were they considered rich, poor, or middle class?

Mary Jo: As you were going through those questions to ask our listeners, it just kind of occurred to me and this would be such a great primer for newlyweds and those that are engaged before they actually get married. As advisors, we are semi counselors and we play that role a lot, but just think about that. If you’ve got young adults at home, I encourage you to have him listen to this podcast and if they have a significant other that they’re thinking about spending a life with, they should talk about this before they walk down the aisle and make sure that they have a vision for what they want their financial future to look like.

Bob: Absolutely, Mary Jo, and it was interesting you came up with this topic. I’m going to tell everyone, Mary Jo came up with this topic because it’s a great topic. And just this topic helped my wife and I of 35 years. We had a great discussion about our background and our money histories just today before we did this podcast. It was a great conversation, Mary Jo, and I’m glad we had that, so I’m so glad you thought of this. Amen. Yeah.

Mary Jo: Well thanks, Bob. We encourage you, our listeners, to sit down with your spouse. Talk through this if you haven’t already done so. Explore your past, and talk about what you’d like to see change in your future about money and its impact on your home. What do you want your money future to look like? What a great question. Unfortunately our society works against us sometimes. We live in a time that’s filled by consumerism. We are bombarded by constant marketing that tempts us to buy, and it’s mostly stuff. It’s stuff we need, but it’s stuff we want. We think this stuff is the missing link that will help us fill that void. But I’m here to tell you, it doesn’t fill that void. What it’s doing instead, it’s taking away your power. Money has power. Well, maybe it’s us that gives money the power, but without money we lose our power.

Bob: Yeah, I know what you mean. You know, so many of us, we have this mindset even though we have plenty that we don’t have enough. So how do we go from a lack mentality to an abundance mentality? We first have to understand our history with money, and the good thing is that you can change your money future. You can’t change history, but we can learn from it and change the future. All it takes is honesty, clarity, and a desire to change.

Mary Jo: As advisors, Bob and I believe it’s really important to understand our client’s money history. Before we can provide prudent and sound financial advice, we need to understand more about our client’s money past, their money history, and how this is influencing their current financial situation – their current financial decisions – and it’s not always easy. It requires developing a trusting relationship, and that happens over time with our clients. But we also want to share that what is said in our office stays in our office or on the phone, as it may be, since we do a lot of virtual meetings. We hold your stories confidentially, but we do understand that we all have a money history, and it’s a judgment free zone.

Bob: We can say, with as many years of experience that we have, we have heard it all.

Mary Jo: Oh, we have.

Bob: So be sure to tune in to next week’s Christian Financial Perspectives because we’re going to explore your money style. Like, are you a hoarder? A saver? A spender? Or a steward? And we’re going to look at these money styles and talk about what they mean and how it impacts our emotional reactions regarding money.

Mary Jo: You’ve been listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us next week as we explore more about how to apply biblical wisdom to your financial situations.

Bob: To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts, you can subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. To learn more about integrating your faith with your finances, visit out website at ciswealth.com or call 830-609-6986.

Mary Jo: That’s all for now until next week.

[DISCLOSURES]

Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

Some of the top concerns small business owners have are covered in this episode.

More episodes >>

This episode covers small business owners’ long term financial interests and applying wisdom to the decisions they make today for a bright future.

Small business owners are extremely busy, and they are constantly being pulled in many different directions. Many questions small business owners face include:

As financial advisors that serve other small businesses every day, Bob and Mary Jo understand the small business owner and want to help. They decided to address some of the issues that small business owners need to be thinking about and taking action on.

Saving for your financial future is one of the most important things you need to do, but can be hard to find the money to save after all of the self employment taxes, income taxes, and business expenses. If you are a small business owner or you know one, you will want to listen in as they discuss the many issues that affect them.

HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

[INTRODUCTION]

Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

Mary Jo: From scripture in the II Chronicles 9:21-24, “The King had a fleet of trading ships, manned by Hiram servants. Once every three years, it returned carrying gold, silver, and ivory and apes and baboons. King Solomon was greater in riches and wisdom than all the other Kings on the earth. All the Kings of the earth sought audience with Solomon to hear the wisdom God had put in his heart. Year after year, everyone who came brought a gift, articles of silver and gold and robes, weapons and spices, and horses and mules.

Bob: Boy, this deals with business, commerce, and wisdom. I just love this scripture as it speaks about applying that wisdom and business. It proves there was commerce back in the biblical times which still applies today. So on today’s podcast, we’re going to be talking about small business owners and their longterm financial interests and applying wisdom to the decisions they make today for a bright future when they’re older and they can’t work as much. So if you’re a small business owner or you know a few yourself and you’re not one, but you know some, like I said, you’ll want to listen in as we discuss the many issues that affect them. I’ll tell you, small business owners, they have a lot to be concerned about and I, as a small business owner, can definitely relate to them as I’ve been a small business owner myself for over 34 years.

Mary Jo: You know, I know what you mean Bob. You know, back in the day my husband and I owned a car detail business. Thus, his obsession with clean cars and clean boats that we joke about a lot on the podcast. The poor guy – actually it’s his poor spouse that suffers – but that’s a whole different podcast.

Bob: His friends suffer too, because when I came down to see y’all the other day, I’m washing my car the night before cause I knew I was coming down.

Mary Jo: Oh his friend say that all the time. Oh he’s a tough critic. And as an independent contractor, I’m also a small business owner, so we can relate to this. And on Google, you know there are a ton of articles on the challenges of being a small business owner. This isn’t anything new. If you own your own business, you’re well aware of the challenges that you face.

Bob: Yes, there’s always these questions swimming around in your head when you’re a small business owner, like what’s my cash flow going to be like in the future? Am I going to be able to pay all my employees? Will I be able to pay all the bills for the business? Is there enough new business coming in? How could I control expenses better without sacrificing quality? How can I attract more customers? Can I provide the health coverage I need for my family and my employees as well. Will I have enough after paying everyone else and all those taxes and business expenses for my own family to live on? What will my income taxes be in the future? You know, these are just many of the issues that keep us business owners up at night. And small business owners, they’re always so extremely busy and they seem to be like a hamster on a wheel much of the time and just can’t get off of it to rest. They’re constantly being pulled in many different directions and wear themselves out with extremely long hours. Many times starting at 6:00 AM in the morning and not stopping until 10 or 11 at night, putting in 15 hour days, many days of the week. Believe me when I say I can relate to this.

Mary Jo: As financial advisors that serve small business owners every day, we understand the small business owners and we want to help. We know that saving for your financial future is one of the most important things you need to do, but it’s hard to find the money to save after all the self employment taxes, the income taxes, and business expenses to put away for your own future. It’s hard. We get that. We thought about how we could help you make this happen. So we came up with the idea of making today’s podcast to address some of the issues that small business owners need to be thinking about and take action on.

Bob: You know, I’m in the process of finishing building a new home and I’ve been asking all of my subcontractors that are small business owners about their retirement plans and it’s interesting. Of all the ones I’ve asked, not a single one so far, and I’m nearly at the end of the home, has a retirement plan.

Mary Jo: Scary.

Bob: And their ability to continue working at their chosen craft is all that is providing for their financial future and that of their family. You know, we can’t solve all of these problems on today’s podcast, but we can look at a few solutions to prepare for the future for a small business owner and minimize these risks.

Mary Jo: You know, Bob, the business owners that we’ve seen that are successful, they work very closely with their CPA and maybe even a bookkeeper on a consultative and a consistent basis. The CPA provides guidance on what is the best retirement plan for them, the one that will meet their goals and objectives for their business. There’s a lot of choices there, but before a small business owner can contribute to a retirement plan, they have to start saving. We have found that this is one of the hardest things for most small business owners to do. They meet with their CPA and always find out that they owe more in income taxes and they thought at the end of the year. So they have to come up with that. And then their CPA advises them to contribute to a retirement plan so they can save on taxes, but they have no savings on hand to make the contributions with. So, it’s just this cycle that perpetuates. So first things first, you need to think about saving more and spending less if you want to protect your financial future. I’ve heard it said that you need to plan to live to be a hundred or die tomorrow. Both take planning, especially from a financial standpoint.

Bob: Yeah, Mary Jo and you know this may mean not buying that new $70,000 truck every two years I’ve been seeing all my subcontractors have. I have just been seeing this a lot and living by a reasonable budget. It seems there’s that pressure to look more financially successful than you really are so everyone will think he or she must be good at what they’re doing because they sure look like it by how they live. Little do they know that so many of these small business owners have everything financed to the hilt.

Mary Jo: You know, and I think that kind of comes back to that whole thing about being content with what you have, and we’ve talked about that so many times on our podcast. So how do you create a retirement savings strategy when you’re the employer? What happens when you don’t have a corporate sponsored employee benefit plan to rely on? Maybe one that offers a 401k or other similar retirement plans like most employers do? It’s still important to put something away for retirement. You have to do it yourself. As we talked about, a good CPA will look at your situation. Look at how much you have available to contribute, how many employees you have, what your goals are. For example, do you want to have a plan that you as the employer are the only one that makes contributions to, or do you want a plan that allows your employees to contribute also? After all, they should have some skin in the game like you do, don’t you think?

Bob: I think they should. And you may just want to start in a retirement plan in the beginning only for yourself. But a lot of small business owners and their employees, they become like family over the years, so they want to offer a plan for them as well.

Mary Jo: You know, Bob, think about this, small business owners are the number one employer in the country. So think about how many people that impacts, and if they’re not offering retirement plans to their employees, that’s a lot of people that aren’t gonna have anything else saved for retirement that are just going to have to live on social security, and that’s almost at the poverty level.

Bob: Yes, you’re right. So the first thing is is start on that retirement plan and then offering it to your employees and helping them. So once you’ve decided this is gonna become a priority to save for your future, you need to get with your CPA, like we’ve been saying, or hire one if you don’t have one, and determine what’s the best retirement plan for you and your business. So what we are going to do today is we’re going to go over five different kinds of retirement plans specifically geared for the small business owner that we’re going to talk about each one.

Mary Jo: First, there’s the individual IRA. This is a good plan for those just starting out and can’t save more than $6,000 a year individually or $12,000 a year if your spouse works in the business with you. These are individual plans and have no employee element. If you have employees, they can set up and contribute to their own IRAs. If you can save more than this, one of the following four retirement plan options just might be a better solution for you.

Bob: So the second type of retirement plan that we’re going to talk about for a small business owner is a SEP IRA plan, which stands for Simplified Employee Pension. And this was a favorite of mine in the beginning years of my business since this type of retirement plan is good for self-employed people and small business owners with no or very few employees. The benefits are in a SEP, you can put up to 25% of your net earnings pretax or $56,000 yeah, that’s $56,000, whichever is less. So this can really result in a nice income tax savings. But the not so good side of a SEP for a business owner is that they must contribute the same percentage of their salary into a SEP for each eligible employee. So this means if you contribute 10% or even 25% of your compensation into a SEP plan, you must also contribute that same 10 – 25% of each eligible employee’s compensation into that plan for them as well. And the bad side about this is they have absolutely no skin in the game and a SEP and they can take it out anytime they want to and do whatever they want to with that contribution you made for them, even though you meant it for their retirement. So while a SEP IRA plan can be a great plan, there are other plans as well that may be better and we’re also going to be talking about a solo business 401k later if you have a few full time employees.

Mary Jo: The third retirement option for our small employer is the Simple IRA. This is best for businesses with more than two to three employees, up to around 20, based on our experience, but it can also work for larger businesses with up to a hundred employees. The simple plan stands for Savings Incentive Match Plan for Employees, if you were curious. And no wonder they need an acronym for it, it’s pretty complex. The contribution limits are up to $13,000 per person in 2019. There’s also a catchup contribution of $3,000 if you’re 50 or older. So if both you and your spouse work in a small business, which many do, as long as each one of your salaries is at least $13,000 or more, you can both contribute the full $13,000, or $16,000 each if you’re both over 50, to a Simple IRA Plan. This will result in a lot of tax savings, as well as providing a bright future for retirement. Also, for your employees, unlike the SEP IRA, the contribution burden isn’t solely on you. Employees can contribute through salary deferral, but employers are generally required to make either matching contributions to employee accounts of up to 3% of employee compensation or fixed contributions of 2% to every eligible employee. The key here is if you want the flexibility of only matching a contribution, then the 3% option is best. If you choose the lower 2% funding option as the employer, you are required to make this contribution every year whether the employee contributes or not. Simple IRA contribution limits are significantly lower than a SEP IRA or a solo 401k. However, if you end up having to make mandatory contributions to employee accounts, this can be expensive, especially if you have a large number of employees who participate. But we have found that in most Simple IRAs, most employees choose not to participate. But as the small business owner you can. If the employee chooses not to participate, you don’t have to put in anything.

Bob: So I find, Mary Jo, in these simple IRAs, it’s actually a lot cheaper than the SEP IRA because you really don’t have to put in anything if your employees choose not to. If you wanted a SEP and you wanted to put in 25%, you’d have to come up with 25% for your employees. Well here, the most is 3%.

Mary Jo: That’s right. And you know, we talk a lot about if your spouse is working in the business, but I do want to clarify, I think you have to be able to prove that your spouse actually has a role and that they’re performing some contribution to the business because the IRS has the potential to follow up and check in on that. So you have to have some trails there.

Bob: And you don’t want to mess with the IRS.

Mary Jo: No, you don’t.

Bob: Ever! The fourth retirement option that we’re going to talk about is what we mentioned earlier is a solo 401k and it’s a lot like a SEP IRA, which allows for a very large pretax contribution that can save thousands on your income taxes. But the difference between the Solo 401k and the SEP IRA is that Solo allows for a catch up provision for business owners over 50 so this can amount to quite a bit in tax savings if you can put that much money in. So you just think about this, if you can put the max into that Solo 401k, or $56,000 plus an additional $6,000 if you’re over 50, think about how much income taxes that could save you. I mean, that’s a substantial amount, especially if you’re in a higher bracket, say like 25% to 30%, Mary Jo. Say you put $60k in, you know, and you’re in the 30% bracket, that’s an $18,000 tax savings.

Mary Jo: That can add up, most definitely, over time. And the fifth retirement option, finally, that we want to talk about is the Defined Benefit Plan. The first ones that we’ve identified are what we called contribution plans, but this last one is what’s known as a Defined Benefit Plan. This plan is for those who really want to sock it away and save thousands of dollars in income taxes now and for their future retirement income later, and they can afford to do it. It’s best for a self employed person with no or just a few employees who have a very high income and they want to save a lot. Say, for example, up to $225,000 per tax year on an ongoing basis until they hit the contribution limits. The contribution limits, these are calculated based on the benefit you’ll receive at retirement, your age, and your expected investment returns. That is one of the things that you have to understand about this plan is those contribution limits. They have to be calculated by an actuary.

Bob: I want to say something cause I’ve done a lot of these Defined Benefit Plans, especially for those in the Eagle Ford shale oil and gas, Mary Jo. You know, the older you are, that’s where you could get up to that high contribution limit. What we’re talking about like $225,000. So this defined benefit plan is geared toward those, like we’ve said, that really want to put a lot away and have a higher income and want to see a substantial tax savings. Because, can you imagine if you can put that kind of money in pretax, what the tax savings are? It’s enormous.

Mary Jo: We talk a lot about the small business owners and a lot of them are your laborers, your contractors, your tradesmen, but they’re also attorneys and doctors that are small business owners, and this plan is really good for those types of earners. Maybe those that are behind the eight ball who haven’t saved and they really need to do some heavy duty savings at the last minute. So, you find that this type of plan is attractive in those situations. In general, the annual benefit for a participant under a Defined Benefit Plan cannot exceed the lesser of 100% of the participant’s average compensation for his or her highest three consecutive calendar years or $225,000 for 2019. The employee benefit, if you have employees, you generally offer this plan to them and make contributions on their behalf based on their age and salary. So, it’s a pretty heavy burden to the employer. If you’re self employed and looking to establish a traditional pension plan for yourself, this is a good option. However, you have got to understand these plans are expensive. They have a high setup and high annual fees.

Bob: But can I say something in the middle there?

Mary Jo: Sure, Bob.

Bob: They’re expensive. They have a high setup in annual fees, but the fees are much cheaper than the income tax.

Mary Jo: That’s true.

Bob: I mean, you can save yourself $50,000 or $60,000 in income taxes.

Mary Jo: It puts things in perspective.

Bob: Exactly. It’s, you know, it’s 10% of that.

Mary Jo: If you have employees, that’s double the fees and you’ll have to contribute on their behalf. They also carry a, as we were talking about earlier, a heavy administrative burden each year and they require a commitment to fund the plan with a certain amount per year. And if you need to change that amount, you’ll have to pay additional administrative fees to do so. The upside is that you can stash a lot of cash in these. So, if you’re fairly close to retirement and earning a high income that you know you’ll need to maintain, that allows you to save a significant amount every year. We’re talking $50,000 to $80,000 or even more up to the limit of $225,000. You might consider using this plan to supercharge your savings efforts.

Bob: Yeah, it’s like I said before, Mary Jo, can you imagine how much income tax this can save a small business owner? I mean, what’s really great about this Defined Benefit Plan is you can also contribute the maximum to the first four plans we talked about on today’s podcast, which are called Defined Contribution Plans. So, you can do both. Don’t forget, you may even be able to double these contributions if your spouse works in the business with you. I’ve seen income tax savings of $50,000 even up to $100,000 by combining a contribution plan like we discussed in those first four with a defined benefit plan like this last one, if you’re eligible and you make a high enough income.

Mary Jo: And you know Bob, one of the things that you’ve got to think about when it comes to small business owners – but it’s pretty much everybody – it’s hard to say when you’re younger. You have so many family obligations. The children come in, you got to send them to college or trade schools or what have you, and it’s really not until the kids leave the house and the business has been around for a considerable amount of time that you feel like you’re in a position that you can actually save. So this type of plan is ideal for somebody that finds themselves in that kind of a situation. We’ve gone over a lot. It’s a lot to consider. And when choosing the retirement plan for your small business, it’s important to work with a qualified CPA® determine which plan or combination of plans suits your needs best. There are pros and cons of all the different types of plans we’ve talked about. We just wanted to give you a taste of what’s out there on today’s podcast, but there are a lot of rules that you need to weigh – weigh seriously – that we don’t have time to cover in today’s episode. The important thing is to start with some sort of savings plan for your retirement, and start it today. Now, let’s look briefly at some ways to protect you from those concerns like getting hurt on the job. That may keep you up at night. You know, it’s a big concern for a lot of small business owners. We’re going to look at this through the use of disability and general liability insurance.

Bob: Human capital is your ability to earn money in the future. So, if you depend on your ability to continue to earn money, and this is something that really needs protecting. A lot is riding on your ability to earn, including your retirement, your kid’s education, paying those bills such as the mortgage, etc. And since the majority of small business owners or laborers of some sort, this is really the biggest risk they face is getting injured. If not on the job, they’re likely to be injured in an accident traveling to or from the job cause that’s the cost of doing this type of work.

Mary Jo: So just think about this. What happens if you get injured on the job, become disabled and you’re no longer able to perform this same type of physical labor? The what you’re good at. You’re no longer able to earn money and you don’t have any more human capital, unless maybe you can reinvent yourself or learn a new trade. What happens to your business if you become disabled? What is left to sell? Nothing. You were the business. The business got customers based on your personal reputation and from those you’ve done work for in the past. Once you’re injured, this tends to dry up.

Bob: So this is where disability insurance comes in because disability insurance can provide that income in the event you can’t work and earn money due to a disability. There’s the short term disability policy that pays a portion of your salary for a short period of time, typically three to six months, and then there’s what we call longterm disability. So you combine these two and that pays a salary for a longer period, typically a period of over six months. We did a whole podcast on this. We were going to refer back to podcast number 36 and 37 on “Planning For Incapacity”, but another big risk that impacts small business owners is liability and there’s many forms and liability. Thus, the need for what we call general liability insurance.

Mary Jo: So what is general liability insurance? General liability insurance, sometimes called business liability insurance and commercial liability insurance, provides coverage for your business against claims of bodily injury, damage to property, personal injury, and associated medical costs that goes with that. You may ask, “Why do I need general liability insurance?” As a business owner, you should make sure your business is properly protected against the risk of unforeseen events. Having general liability insurance coverage protects your business against third party claims of bodily injury or damage to someone else’s property. However, it does not protect your own personal property. This section explains what our business general liability insurance offers. You should consider general liability insurance if you or your employees interact with clients face to face; if you visit a client’s place of work or clients visit yours; if you have access to a client’s equipment, for example, if you’re an IT professional, you should be covered against potential claims with IT Business liability insurance; if you represent your client’s business; or if you use third party locations for any business related activities. For example, are you a subcontractor or professional craftsmen such as an architect? You’re on other people’s job site as doing the nature of your business. You should look into business liability insurance for your specific type of business. For example, as advisors, we have in place “Errors And Omissions Insurance”. It’s a necessary part of doing business and giving advice to others. We live in South Central Texas, and if you listen to the radio, you watch TV, you drive down the highway and look at the billboards, we are prone to litigation in this state and it’s not going away.

Bob: That’s the truth.

Mary Jo: So you do need to have this protection.

Bob: Again. So general liability insurance, it’s going to cover things like bodily injury, damage to a third party’s property, personal injury, electronic data liability, medical expenses, attorney defense costs. That’s a big one.

Mary Jo: Yeah.

Bob: And actions of your full time employees and temporary staff. But here’s some things that doesn’t cover. It doesn’t cover your property, vehicles and boats, personal identifiable information, professional services, employee injury or workers’ comp, intent to injure, coverage outside of a policy period, or known claims prior to the start of a policy.

Mary Jo: One last major risk for the small business owner we’ll cover today. It’s getting paid in cash. Is there a risk to this? Is cash king?

Bob: No, cash is not king, especially when you under-report your income to the IRS because it’s against the law or your work comes in spurts and you can’t prove your income levels. So, steer clear of getting paid in cash. It can especially hurt you if you needed a business loan or you want to get a home mortgage. It can impact your credit rating. Both are important when applying for any kind of credit. So, you want to consider one of the biggest risks of underreporting your income is going to impact your earnings history for future social security payments. So keep in mind that your social security benefit is based on your highest 35 earning years, and if you’re getting paid in cash, that’s not gonna count towards that. So, this is a great reason to make sure you’re working with a good tax preparer and really leveraging all of benefits of business ownership but also skirting the many risks as best as you can. In closing, worrying about your future and being concerned about it, that’s normal. It’s part of being a business owner. Fortunately, there are plenty of smart moves you can make now to prepare for the future and maybe help you sleep better at night. If you have any questions on how to get started with any of this, please feel free to call Mary Jo or I at Christian Financial Advisors. Our phone number during business hours is (830) 609-6986 or you can go to our website at ciswealth.com. In the upper right hand corner, there’s a little tab that you can click called “Meet With An Advisor” and you can make an appointment to talk to Mary Jo or I during business hours. That’s all for today.

[CONCLUSION]

Mary Jo: You’ve been listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us next week as we explore more about how to apply biblical wisdom to your financial situations.

Bob: To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts, you can subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. To learn more about integrating your faith with your finances, visit out website at ciswealth.com or call 830-609-6986.

Mary Jo: That’s all for now until next week.

[DISCLOSURES]

Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

Learn how to handle the loss of a spouse, including all financial aspects to get in order.

More episodes >>

In this episode, Bob and Mary Jo discuss the loss of a spouse. Having been financial advisors for many years, they both have dealt with clients who have experienced the life changing event of losing a spouse through death or divorce. They have walked beside clients and family through this difficult process many times.

Most of us are not at all prepared for how this changes everything. You may feel numb, shocked, fearful, or wondering how life goes on. You might ask yourself, “How? How does life go on from here?” Whether you fit in this category or not, you may know someone who does so we invite you to listen and share with anyone you may know dealing with a loss or about to.

HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

[INTRODUCTION]

Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

Bob: 1 Timothy 5:3-5, “Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need. But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family And so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God. The widow who is really in need and left all alone, puts her hope in God and continues night and day to pray and to ask God for help.” So on today’s podcast, we’re going to discuss the loss of a spouse. Having been financial advisor for many years, Mary Jo and I, we’ve dealt with many clients who unfortunately have lost a spouse through death or even divorce. We’ve walked beside our clients and family through this difficult process many times. Whether you fit in this category or not today, you may know somebody who does. So we invite you to listen to the podcast and share it with anyone you may know dealing with the loss or are about to.

Mary Jo: Losing a spouse through death or divorce, it’s a life changing event. I just recently lost my younger brother to cancer very suddenly, and I know how devastating this has been to his wife, my sister in law. Like many widows, she was not prepared to experience this so young. I’ve been married for 37 years, and I can’t imagine how hard it would be to lose the love of my life.

Bob: Mary Jo, I’ve been married for 35 and I’m the same way. We do everything together.

Mary Jo: Exactly. We’ve helped a lot of people through this, both family and clients, as you said, Bob, but we haven’t been through it ourselves, but I think that we have enough experience where we can relate and we can shed our insights and hopefully shelter some of those who may be facing this in the future. So most of us, we’re not at all prepared for how this changes everything. You may feel numb, shocked, even fearful. The emotions, the fears, the tasks, the overwhelming grief, the fact that life goes on. Yes, life does begin to go on. You might ask yourself how? How does life go on from here? The answer, it’s one day at a time, one step at a time. In today’s episode on Christian Financial Perspectives, we’re going to share some insights, some how to’s, some best practices, and some step-by-step guidelines on how to begin reshaping your financial lives after the loss of a spouse.

Bob: There’s no rules about how you should feel. There’s no right or wrong way to mourn the loss of a spouse or the loss of a marriage. In the case of divorce, there’s still often a lot of grief, grief for the loss of what might’ve been your dreams, your hopes for the future. If you’ve experienced the loss of a spouse, the first thing we’d like to say how sorry we are for your loss. We understand this can be very devastating and may require quite an adjustment that can take several years or even longer to get used to. So if you’re like me, your life revolved around your spouse and now they’re no longer around. You may be out and about and even look for him or her in a crowd or be sure that you just saw them out of the corner of your eye. Some people, they keep re-experiencing circumstances or events around their partner’s death. Others find themselves sticking to old routines like setting the table for two or reading something and turning to tell their spouse about it, picking up the phone to call him or her. All of this is natural and expected, so know that it’s also natural in the beginning to have trouble sleeping, little interest in food, problems with concentration, and a hard time making decisions.

Mary Jo: You may also be dealing with anger. This is especially true in cases of divorce, especially if it was sudden and not expected. It’s also true in dealing with the death of a spouse. It’s normal to feel anger. Why did you leave me? Why did you do this to me? How am I ever going to figure this out on my own? It doesn’t matter whether you’re a widow or a widower. You can both still have those feelings. Grief can take many different forms. In addition to dealing with all these feelings of loss and anger, you may also need to put your life back together. This can be hard work. Some people feel better sooner than they expect. Others, it may take much longer. The National Institute on Aging has lots of articles and resources available at their website, so I’d encourage you to check these out, and that’s at nia.nih.gov

Bob: Consider joining a support group at your church, in this case, or in your community. Sometimes, it just helps to know you’re not alone. Remember, there are other people dealing with these same issues. These groups, they can be specialized. I know we have a lot of these in our own church – parents who have lost children or people who have lost spouses, grieving the loss of a parent or a sibling, the newly divorced, etc. They can be for anyone learning to manage grief, so check with your church and religious groups, local hospitals, nursing homes, funeral homes, or even your doctor to find support groups in your area. If your loved one passed after dealing with cancer or another terminal illness, hospice can also be a great resource. I know, Mary Jo, even our own church, we have a cancer support group, and they often have groups available in many other places as well.

Mary Jo: Yeah, I do a lot of volunteer work for the nonprofit hospice here in Rockport, and they have a grief support group and it’s very well attended and people continue to come for years. They get a lot of comfort from it. As time passes, you’re certainly going to still miss your spouse and is true in cases of death and even divorce. You still lost a spouse that you spent much time with, so it’s not unusual for there to still be this same level of grief. For most people, the intense pain will lessen in time. There will be good and bad days. You will know you’re feeling better when there are more good days than bad. Don’t feel guilty if you laugh at a joke or enjoy a visit with a friend. If you’re the one who experienced the loss, friends and family may be waiting to take a cue from you. They don’t want to make you uncomfortable so they avoid talking about the elephant in the room. Be the one to bring it up, and let them off the hook. Give them the green light to talk about your loved one. If you are a friend or caregiver for someone who just lost a spouse, then you be the one to bring it up. It’s okay and even encourage them to talk about it and remember them. Your friend will want to know their loved one is missed but not forgotten.

Bob: Oh yeah. Family and compassionate friends, that can be some of the greatest support and remember, they’re grieving too and some people find that sharing memories is a great way to help each other. Feel free to share those stories about the one who is gone. People may find it helpful to talk directly about their loss. After all, you are all coping with the loss of someone you cared for. So you’ve lost a spouse, what should you now do in regards to your finances? The first step, and most important one, is to ensure that you have cash on hand for those short term needs. We often advise our clients to maintain an emergency fund of at least six months of living expenses. If you have a spouse who is sick and not expected to enjoy a long life ahead, you may want to increase this even up to a year just to provide that peace of mind.

Mary Jo: Bob, an important thing to know is that many times in case of the death of a spouse, things like social security payments, pension payments, and other income sources, they’re going to stop once a death notice has been received. But they have also been known to claw back some of those funds that were paid in advance and that maybe weren’t yet due to the recipient. And I’ve seen this happen personally with social security. For example, after my father died, we came in and trying to pick up the pieces and we had no idea how much cash he may or may not have had in the bank. But all of a sudden his social security payment wasn’t there anymore.

Bob: Wow. At a tough, tough time.

Mary Jo: It’s very tough time. We were fortunate it worked out great because he had a lot of cash on hand, but what if he hadn’t? We’d written a check to the funeral home. So I just remember the stress that created and you want to give yourself time to get your feet on the ground, so this is one thing you can do to make the next steps easier and give you that gift of time. Second, and equally as important because this is such an emotional and stressful time, you want to take time to just breathe. Do not make any sudden financial decisions about moving or selling anything, except for maybe getting the estate settled and some accounts switched to your name. This is not the time to make any permanent longterm financial decisions, maybe not even up for a year unless it’s absolutely necessary to do so.

Bob: Next, just try and gather as much financial information as you physically and mentally can handle during this time, but don’t overwhelm yourself. A good list to work on one at a time is finding if it was a death that caused the loss of a spouse, that Last Will and Testament, maybe those trust documents. If there was a limited partnership, try to find that of the lost spouse. This goes the same with a divorcee, as these documents will need to be changed,

Mary Jo: You’ll want to gather death certificates if the loss was a death. You may need these in order to get access to some of the following items on our list and you will need multiple copies. I’d request at least 10, if not 20, because many of the financial firms, they’re going to require an original death certificate.

Bob: The next thing you’re gonna want to do is look for all your recent bank account statements and some of you may just have one or two bank accounts, but if you’re like me and I’m a business owner and different properties we have different bank accounts for, so reach out and try to find all those. You know, Mary Jo, I was just talking about this list to Rachael and I was saying, “Rachael, do you know where all this is?” as we were coming up with this list and thank goodness most of them she did, but there were a few she didn’t.

Mary Jo: That’s a great reminder.

Bob: Next, look for statements for any debts that you owe, like consumer credit card debt, mortgage, auto debt. And by the way, we’re going through this list and we’re mentioned these. We are going to put this list on our podcast website so you can go look at that. Next, look for your retirement account statements like your IRAs, 401k’s, Thrift Savings Plans, Annuities. Of course, this next one is a really important one, especially if there’s a life insurance policy, but look for all of your insurance policies, your auto, your home, your health insurance, your brokerage account statements is something else that you’ll want to look for that are not retirement accounts. But just regular brokerage statements that you may have with a broker dealer.

Mary Jo: You’re also going to need your last two years tax returns. I would also recommend that you create a calendar of important due dates as you find these things and you look through them. Any payments that you have, begin to record that.

Bob: That’s such a great idea.

Mary Jo: Yes. And you also want a list of all your real estate that’s owned – your home, any farm and ranches, investment property, vacation homes. Some people have two and three rental properties, etc. So, you want to make a list of all that and you know, Bob, as we’re going through this, one of the things that kind of just keeps coming to top of my mind is this is a great list for those coming behind. But this is also a great reminder for any couples that you probably want to go through this and talk about this while you still can together, so that you don’t find yourself in a crisis mode after the fact.

Bob: Yeah. It’s like I was saying it’s kind of a to do list. I went through this list and she knew where most of this stuff was, but there were two or three items on here she didn’t, and I realized we need to make sure that both of us know where this stuff is. Another thing that you want to list as any businesses owned individually or jointly and the names of any outside partners, if there were any. Oil and gas interest, royalties from anything, copies of all your real estate deeds, and titles to your cars, your boats – thinking about Mike there, etc.

Mary Jo: All your toys.

Bob: By the way, everyone, I got to go out on Mike’s boat the other day. That’s a nice boat, I’ll tell ya, I sure did enjoy that boat ride, Mary Jo. Thank y’all.

Mary Jo: Well, he cleans the boat like he does his cars. It was a fun day. Try and form a complete financial statement of all your assets and liabilities and you know the things that we’re going through that we’re itemizing, this can be a daunting task. This is a lot of things to gather, and you don’t have to do it all at once. Just every day, tackle one thing on the list. You also want to try and form a monthly budget of what that will look like and what you’ll need to live on. The best worksheets we found over the years for putting together a budget can be found at crown.org. That’s a great website with tremendous resources. And you also want to find your social security statements since spousal benefits are available to a widow or widower and even there’s some divorce benefits that you want to check into.

Bob: So this list that we’re looking at, it has 17 items on it and again we don’t expect you to remember all those. You can go to Christianfinancialpodcast.com and look up this podcast called “Loss Of A Spouse” and it will have a listing of that. But also just feel free to give us a call because this is a lot of items. If you’re unable to manage all this, you might want to try to find a trusted friend or family member to help you with it. Take great notes along the way of these actions taken and who you spoke with and the names and contact information of every one. So you want to probably get you a good workbook to put all this in. We also have a great resource available that provides a list of steps when acting as an executor of an estate. This serves as a resource we use around here and it’s called the “40 Estate Administration Tasks”. It’s a great resource. Again, we’ll put that as a link through our website. We’ll make that available. If you want to give us a call, you can always call us too and we’ll send that to you. By the way, that number is (830) 609-6986. Again, (830) 609-6986, and you can call during business hours. Just ask about some of these things if you don’t want to go to the website, and we’ll get them out to you.

Mary Jo: The next step is you want to contact your financial advisor. If you don’t have one, this may be a great time to find one. You’ll be best served by an advisor who’s looking at your entire financial picture, one who does comprehensive wealth management and don’t let that term wealth put you off. I know that happens to a lot of people. They don’t think of themselves as wealthy but we all have wealth. Some of us just have more than others and you don’t have to have extensive wealth to work with a wealth management advisor. A great advisor will serve as your trusted financial advocate, and that’s the thing that’s the most important. They will look at your entire financial picture and not just your investment portfolio. You will want to look for an experienced, fee based advisor that serves in a fiduciary capacity and does not sell any commission-based financial products. They will help you put your financial life in order. So you only deal with a fiduciary based financial advisor and ask them exactly how they are paid, which should either be by the hour, a flat fee, a fee based on a percentage of assets under their management, or a combination of these.

Bob: As in every profession, there are few bad apples that pry on unsuspecting divorcees, widows, and widowers at a time when they’re most vulnerable. So steer clear of any advisors or so-called financial planners that may try to sell you investment products like an annuity without looking at your entire financial picture. Because advisors, they make huge commissions on these products. They’re very complicated and they come with lots of strings attached. If you or your spouse had not done any prior longterm financial planning, you may want to find a wealth management advisor who is also called a Certified Financial Planner, and if you’re looking to work with a Christian advisor, you may also want to look for an advisor that is a Certified Kingdom Advisor as both Mary Jo and I are.

Mary Jo: Your financial advisor should have the patience to answer any and all of your questions in a kind and compassionate manner. If your spouse had the relationship with your advisor and you did not feel that they tried very hard to connect with you, then maybe it’s no longer a good fit. It may be a time to find a new advisor that will serve as your financial advocate. If they are condescending or don’t take your questions seriously, it’s time to move on. Now that you have all the documents gathered, it’s time to transition your financial affairs to your new life as a single person.

Bob: If you’re not already working with an estate planning attorney and a tax preparer, you’ll need to find one of those as well. Your advisor should be able to help you with a referral to the proper attorney that fits your needs and your budget. Now that you’re single, you’ll need to update those estate planning documents. If your spouse was the power of attorney and held your medical directive, you will want to find another friend or family member to serve in this capacity as well. When meeting with your tax preparer or CPA, you’ll want to inquire about what documents you should gather and any tax sensitive issues that need to be addressed, and review those tax issues for the current year.

Mary Jo: Some to do items include write a new will and advanced directive. Look into a durable power of attorney for legal matters and health care in case you’re unable to make your own medical decisions in the future. Put joint property such as a house or a car in your own name as an individual. Check on changes you might need to make on your health insurance, as well as your life insurance, your car insurance, and your homeowners insurance. All those policies.

Bob: Sign up for Medicare by your 65th birthday. Make a list of bills you’ll need to pay in the next few months. For instance, state and federal taxes and your rent or mortgage. And if your spouse handled the finances and kept all those records, then start your own filing system, one that works for you and the way that you think. Declutter your life. Consider what to pitch, what to keep, what to update, and make sure and shred any documents that have information on them like account numbers or social security numbers, etc.

Mary Jo: That’s right. Don’t just throw that stuff in the trash. You want to get a shredder if you’re not already using one. I did have to laugh a little bit about the one that works well for the way you think.

Bob: Now everybody’s going to know the way I think. Go ahead and tell them, Mary Jo.

Mary Jo: You know, men are from Mars, women are from Venus or if it’s the other way around, but my husband and I, we approach things so differently. I have one filing system and he hates it. And I know you and I, we approach things differently. So it’s not uncommon for you to want to create it and move things around and make it comfortable for yourself.

Bob: That’s right.

Mary Jo: And you know, many couples, they tend to divide up household chores. This works well for the most part, but the challenge comes when the spouse that handled the financial affairs is suddenly gone, and the surviving or remaining spouse, they’re not prepared or they’re not knowledgeable. So I tell all of my clients, you don’t have to know how to build the clock, but you do need to know where the clock is, what it’s for, and how the hands work. I hope that analogy makes sense, but I do think it paints a picture in your mind’s eye.

Bob: I think it’s a great analogy.

Mary Jo: You know, you’re learning to manage new tasks from chores to household repairs to finances. This takes time, but it can be done. You want to save major financial decisions until a time when you’re not feeling quite so overwhelmed, however.

Bob: And we want to give you some great resources, too, because we have a lot of previous podcasts episodes you might find helpful. Like from last year, 2018, our first one, “What God’s Word Says About Money”. Third one was “Virtues To Look For When Choosing A Financial Advisor”. Our fourth one right after it was on “Estate Planning The Right Way And The Wrong Way”. Then, we did one on episode 13 about investing and the emotions that go with that called “The Emotional Investor” and even earlier this year we did one on setting financial goals. That was 15. 17 was “The Need For Financial Planning”. Another one we did was “Diversification. What It Really Means”. We did one on “Biblical Viewpoints Of Money And Wealth”. That’s a Bible study that I’ve written. Feel free to give us a call and we’ll get a copy of that out to you or you can go on Amazon and again, just put in “Biblical Viewpoints Of Money And Wealth” and get a copy. We did one with a great guest – “What You Need To Know About Medicare”. Just recently Episode 47 was “Financial Mistakes We All Make”. 49 was really good about titling of assets. It’s called “What’s In A Name”. Now, you can go to our website at christianfinancialpodcast.com and see all these. I don’t expect you to remember all of these episode numbers, but they’re all listed in there and Jenna’s done a great job, who helps us put all this together, about listing these and finding them. And finally, moving forward after years of being a couple, it can be very upsetting to be alone. So you may find in time that it’s helpful to make plans to be active, have something to do every day, develop new hobbies, start an activity you have always wanted to do with that spouse, but they just weren’t interested in doing. So Mary Jo, I know you got some other things that you want to share here.

Mary Jo: I think one of the things that is the hardest is just to get started. So take one step and then you’ll find that the next day it’s easier to take a second step, but sometimes it is just getting started that’s the hardest thing. Consider joining a bridge club, take up golf, find a group and travel, create new adventures, make new friends, and allow family and friends to help. If they ask how they can help, don’t brush them off. Find something specific they can do where you would be grateful for the help. They’re just looking to you for direction, so give them something to do. Check out books on becoming a widow or widower. There are tons of resources available. The same is true with divorce. Get a pet. I keep asking for one. My husband keeps saying no, so it might be the time. I know in our neighborhood we have a lot of widows and widowers and it just seems like every one of them has a dog, but it gets them out of house. They have to walk the dog, so it definitely seems like a good step.

Bob: And they provide that unconditional love. That’s what’s so amazing.

Mary Jo: Absolutely. They sit next to you. They let you pet them…sometimes, but it can fill that void. Create new memories with your kids and your grandkids. I’ve heard it said that we should all work to create a rich life and not just a life of riches.

Bob: So as we’re getting close to the end here, explore your money future. What are your thoughts about money and how is that different than the way your spouse may have felt about it? What money fears or concerns do you have? Explore how much is enough? Are you in good shape financially? Are you better off than you thought? What do you want to see changed about your financial future? Do you want to create a family legacy? Become more of a giver? Save more, spend more? What’s your money style? Are you a saver or a hoarder or an avoider or a steward? When it comes to your investments, is your risk tolerance different than that of your spouse that’s no longer around. Do you need to take steps to understand what you now have? What’s your vision for your end of life care? Do you have a plan in place for you? Have you communicated that plan to the ones you love most?

Mary Jo: In the book, “Moving Forward On Your Own. A Financial Guidebook For Widows”, Kathleen M. Rehl, who was a PhD, she includes a section on the wheel of life and it’s a great exercise for all of us to consider to create a more meaningful life. It has a nice visual and it really struck me. The wheel of life contains the following sections. So first on your paper, you want to draw a big wheel with different sections. You’re going to have personal and spiritual growth, financial wellbeing, intellectual engagement, productive pursuits, leisure, recreation, health care and physical fitness, close relationships and family, community and social relationships. So once you’ve drawn the wheel and put in all those sections, then answer the following: “What segment do you want to focus on? What do you want to change the most? And what is one small step you can take that will help you get this section closer to the center of your life?” So think about that in each of these areas and see what you want to change to create the life you want to have. Now’s the chance to make that change.

Bob: So we hope today has been a really good podcast for you. I know there’s a lot of great information here. And remember, you can always go to our website, to christianfinancialpodcast.com. Click on this episode, “Loss Of A Spouse”, and we put the script under our podcast. So you can look at all of this information that we’ve presented today, and if you’ve suddenly found yourself single due to the death of a spouse or a divorce, we hope you’ve found this very helpful. Remember, it’s just one day at a time, one step at a time. You are stronger than you think you are, and many people love you and want to help. So let them, God loves you, and so do we.

[CONCLUSION]

Mary Jo: You’ve been listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us next week as we explore more about how to apply biblical wisdom to your financial situations.

Bob: To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts, you can subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. To learn more about integrating your faith with your finances, visit out website at ciswealth.com or call 830-609-6986.

Mary Jo: That’s all for now until next week.

[DISCLOSURES]

Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

We cover 3 questions concerning biblically responsible investing.

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In this podcast, Bob and Mary Jo answer three questions about integrating your faith with your finances.

* If you would like to get help with your philanthropic decisions like tax efficient tithing strategies, donor advised funds, charitable trusts or any of the available giving strategies, give Christian Financial Advisors a call at (830) 609-6986. We are here to assist you and your family with creating a purpose driven legacy. Together, we can create a legacy of giving for your family, regardless of the size of the gifts.

HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

[INTRODUCTION]

Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

Bob: Deuteronomy 8:17-18, “You may say to yourself, my power and the strength of my hands have produced this wealth for me. But remember the Lord your God for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your ancestors as it is today.” So as we prepare for each weekly podcast, you know it requires a great deal of research and a lot of reading, interviewing people, and planning. And as we’ve been preparing for some recent podcast episodes, there’s three big questions that we’ve come across that we’d like to share with you today and explore them more in detail. So these questions are – Is it okay for Christians to be financially successful? Purpose versus profits, can you invest for both? And the third question is, why the decline in individual generosity in the last few years? And these are really all faith issues more than anything else. So let’s dig into it.

Mary Jo: The first one, is it okay for Christians to be financially successful? That’s a big question.

Bob: I hope so because I am [laughs].

Mary Jo: Well, yes. It’s one I’ve struggled with. So we know we’ve been called to give, but how much do we give? So it’s an interesting question, and we believe the answer is yes. One of the things I think about is the fact that we choose to live in the United States of America, a capitalist society. Some would say we don’t have a choice, but I think as adults, I would argue that we do. We could move to Canada or Europe or anywhere else if we chose to, and most of us believe we live in the best country in the world. I know I believe that

Bob: I do too. And the best state by the way.

Mary Jo: Well, yes, that goes without saying. So we should be our own country. Yeah, that’s another podcast.

Bob: And here we have our listeners in other parts of the United States saying, aww, c’mon give me a break, you Texans.

Mary Jo: They know how we are in Texas, but what makes this country so great is the potential for upward economic mobility and that our capitalist system provides, and it’s really hard to argue this point. Otherwise, why would we be having such an intense debate regarding our open borders and our ever increasing flow of immigration? If our system doesn’t work, then why does everyone want to be here?

Bob: Boy, I totally agree with you on that one. If our free enterprise system was not so great, like you say, then why are thousands upon thousands of immigrants trying so hard to get into the United States and there may be a few examples of individuals and companies that have taken advantage of our free enterprise system at the expense of others, but greed and corruption are much more present in a socialistic society. Some may believe financial success equates to selfishness and greed by having profited from a free enterprise system, but yet these same liberal voices are quick to take advantage of the many opportunities provided by capitalism.

Mary Jo: As I continue my walk, my Christian walk of faith, I learn more and more about the many faces of Christianity and the many different beliefs and points of views. What I continually find interesting is that they all have their own point of view. It’s not any different than anything else in this world. But in a study from 2011, Cox and Jones, 2011 46% of respondents believe that capitalism and free markets are at odds with Christian values.

Bob: Wow, that’s amazing.

Mary Jo: Isn’t that amazing?

Bob: Yes.

Mary Jo: God’s word warns us about the dangers of the love of money. The apostle Paul wrote in the first book of Timothy 6:10, “For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.” But nowhere that I’m aware of does God condemn wealth or career success. In fact, God commands us to work hard and honestly in several different biblical passages, including Psalms 90:17, “And may the Lord our God show us his approval and make our efforts successful. Yes, make our efforts successful.”

Bob: Two more scriptures I have in regards to that are Proverbs 12:11, “A hard worker has plenty of food, but a person who chases fantasies has no sense.” And Proverbs 14:23, “All hard work brings a profit, but mere talk leads only to poverty.” So the Bible has a lot to say about the use of wealth and how it impacts our lives. But you know, creating wealth with integrity and while you’re treating others with respect is a great thing. In fact, wealth creation through business has proven to lift people and nations out of poverty. And this of course only happens when stewardship is an integral part of the business mission.

Mary Jo: In the wealth creation manifesto from BAM Global, and BAM is Business As Mission, we learned several key affirmations. Business has a special capacity to create financial wealth, but it also has the potential to create different kinds of wealth for many of its stakeholders including social, intellectual, physical, and spiritual wealth. Wealth is to be shared and not hoarded. There is no wealth to be shared unless it is created. Wealth creation must also be pursued with justice and concern for the poor. If you’d like to read more, I encourage you to really search out this report. Again, it’s called the wealth creation manifesto. Included you will find a long list of biblical references regarding the pursuit of wealth through work and the resulting guidance of generosity to aid those that are less fortunate. One of the things I will say, it is a very long list and I think Bob, if I recall in one of our much earlier podcasts, we talked about the fact that the Bible references work hundreds of times, but it only references retirement, I think, once.

Bob: That’s correct. As a matter of fact, I’m going to go to my Bible gateway right now – 575 times.

Mary Jo: There you go.

Bob: That’s how many times work is in the Bible. If you just put in the word “work” like you say, on Bible gateway or any Bible app, you’re going to see it appears a lot. So, we believe God approves of wealth creation as long as biblical principles are followed along the way.

Mary Jo: Let’s say that again, Bob. I think that’s the key.

Bob: So we believe God approves of wealth creation as long as biblical principles are followed along the way. Like at Christian Financial Advisors, we are steadfast in our belief that God owns it all, and we are charged to be good stewards of what God chooses to bless us with financially. So as Christians, we’re called to manage those resources he’s entrusted to us in a manner that is pleasing to the owner of it, which is God. As Psalms 24:1 says, and we’ve coded this many times on the podcast, the earth is the Lord’s and everything in it. So we really believe God wants us to enjoy our lives with the many blessings he’s given us. And this includes enjoying the fruits of our labor. You know, it’s important to remember, however, that God owns it all, and we need to be careful of believing that a certain amount of money will provide contentment. As Paul said in Philippians 4:12, “I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I’ve learned the secret of being content in any and every situation whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty, or in want. So contentment should not come from wealth, but it should come from that personal relationship with Christ.

Mary Jo: Amen. You know, many believers believe that Christ made a vow of poverty and we should as well if we want to truly be followers of Christ, but I would consider this alternative, Jesus’ life should be a pattern for us to follow. One where wealth, power, position, our gifts – we are to steward. We are to use these gifts to serve others and lead others to God. Part of being a good steward is working to provide a secure financial future for those you love and are responsible for. As Christian wealth advisors and Certified Kingdom Advisors, our commitment is to help you do just that.

Bob: So we believe that what matters most is to have that personal relationship with God through his son, Jesus Christ and to be faithful with what he has so graciously enabled us to receive.

Mary Jo: Bob, I want to thank our friend John Madison, who’s a Certified Public Accountant and very strong Christian brother. He shared his insight and this in his manuscript, “A Steward Plan”. So that’s kind of where this all came from, and I thought it was some very strong food for thought.

Bob: So this takes us to the second question that we’re talking about today, Mary Jo, and those three top concerns of integrating faith and finances. And this is the question of purpose versus profits and can you invest for both? And we definitely believe you can. Today more than ever, investors can align their investments with their values, place a greater value on what their money is doing, in, and to the world rather than just what kind of return it generates.

Mary Jo: We believe that by using our investments for good versus evil, we will be spiritually blessed. Supporting companies that are biblically responsible can be a blessing in our communities and our world, and it’s a win for everyone.

Bob: You know, just like we vote for a political candidate that aligns most closely with our Christian values? Now, We can also vote with our investment dollars to help influence companies to make those right moral choices. And when you own individual stocks of companies, you could even attend a stockholder meeting to make your voice known. Our BRI portfolios, or Biblically Responsible Portfolios, support those investment managers who are very active in this process.

Mary Jo: As strong Christian believers, we believe the Bible and the truth within it has the answers to life’s questions, and this is true for both our personal lives as well as our professional lives and the companies we choose to associate with and invest in. BRI allows the investor to make an impact for good in an otherwise crowded landscape of investment choices. We all want to be purposeful in our lives and thus we have a choice to make, especially with our investment portfolios. We encourage you to vote your values by supporting a BRI strategy with your investments. This has the potential to provide both purpose and profit. We are called to be good stewards of our God given resources. This is what stewardship is all about.

Bob: Along those same lines, we’re talking about voting. It just doesn’t make sense to me to vote for someone with conservative values and then turn around and invest in companies that support liberal values and liberal candidates. Recently, I came across a quote from Inspire Investing that says, “In God’s economy, how you make money is more important than how much you make.” So are you ready to vote with your investment dollars and honor the Lord? If you are, then you can give us a call and we’ll show you how to do that at (830) 609-6986 or visit our website at ciswealth.com

Mary Jo: That brings us to our third big question. Why the decline in individual generosity?

Bob: Well, let’s take a look first at 2 Corinthians 9:7 because I like what it says that, “Each of you should give what you’ve decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion. For God loves a cheerful giver.” We really live in a time of great prosperity despite continued volatility in the markets. But in a report that we looked up called Giving USA 2019, the trends reveal some interesting facts like the number of households that give has declined in 2018. Even though the report was done this year, that was referring back to last year, and this could be bad news for community based nonprofits and local churches, but the amount of money given through mega gifts from the ultra wealthy actually increased.

Mary Jo: A statistic we found interesting is giving to religious causes is estimated to have declined by 1.5%, but giving to international affairs increased 9.6%, revealing we are indeed becoming a global marketplace. We are hopeful that some of the giving to international affairs is being directed towards those faith-based, global initiatives and humanitarian causes resulting from natural disasters. This could explain the drop in giving to local religious organizations. More people are giving to these big global causes. Another alarming trend is the decline in donations for smaller and mid level donors versus those of the mega wealthy. Some of this is likely due to our changing tax policies. With these changes what we are likely to see is bigger donations but less often, and that’s due to the bunching of expenses to meet the standard deduction. We probably won’t be able to do that every year, but maybe every other year and thus you can bunch some of those expenses and take advantage of that standard deduction or itemizing deductions rather. But we probably won’t be doing that as frequently. The new laws really require more end of year tax planning than in previous years. So, you know, we need to be thinking about engaging our accountants and actually consulting with them more than we’ve done in the past.

Bob: What I think it really comes to, giving our money, it comes down to risk and faith. We invest according to our risk tolerance, but we also give according to our faith and risk tolerance. You say, “What?” You may ask, “What do you mean exactly?” Well, in financial planning, the big question is always how much is enough? So to answer this question requires a great deal of speculation of what the future holds. And we don’t know how long we’re all gonna live. How high inflation will be? Will we get sick? Will our kids need any help? You know, you get the picture. So the future’s unknown. For those of us not included in the mega wealthy, this makes giving during life a bit more difficult. That’s because many don’t know exactly how much they’ll need to live comfortably for the rest of their lives. And this is why giving at death for so many is so much easier than giving while living

Mary Jo: Bob, it’s such a faith question. We just open our hearts. The Bible tells us we’re going to be rewarded, but I know that’s kinda hard. We want to make sure that our needs are met till our last breath. And that’s a tough one.

Bob: It is. There’s no doubt it’s a faith question or a faith issue.

Mary Jo: Yes. Giving during life and at death both come with risk. A common concern for many are both privacy and publicity. It’s a double edged sword. Some want to maintain their privacy, but some want a very public thank you. But some want both. And the other big risk is family concerns. Do my children have certain expectations and what is my responsibility to meet those expectations? I’ve given generously to my children over the years, but do they expect to receive even more in the way of an inheritance? Part of me wants to leave my children a financial legacy and part of me wants to leave a legacy that will impact the kingdom and causes that we all care about. I’m torn, and I don’t know which is the right approach.

Bob: You know, I like the quote in Randy Alcorn’s book “The Treasure Principle”, that you can’t take it with you but can send it on ahead. Have you ever heard that one before?

Mary Jo: I have, and it’s a great book.

Bob: He supports this with 6 treasure principle keys, he calls. God owns everything. I’m his money manager. My heart always goes where I put God’s money. Boy, that’s a good one. Heaven, not earth, is my home. I should not live for the dot life on earth, but for the line eternity in heaven. Giving is the only antidote to materialism. And God prospers me not to raise my standard of living, but to raise my standard of giving. Man, I’m telling you, that goes so against what the world says, so why not both, though? Giving while you’re alive, by faith, and at death is what I say, and it’s the question I say. It really all starts with open communication. Maybe it’s time to have that money conversation about all of the above. We can help you facilitate it by keeping the conversation on track and focus on what’s most important, like creating that family legacy, giving now and later in one that meets the needs of everybody

Mary Jo: Leaving an impactful legacy is about establishing values that guide the generations that follow. I find it heartwarming when I read stories or see interviews with families that have stood for something consistent from generation to generation. Sometimes, it may be a sports franchise. Sometimes, it’s a family owned company. Sometimes, it’s a music legacy. Or it may be even a political dynasty, but most often it involves a shared passion or purpose. Sometimes, it even involves a deep faith and a desire to be disciples of that faith.

Bob: You know, I think about that music legacy and how families will sit around the piano and sing together during Christmas and Thanksgiving and 4th of July. That’s a really neat legacy and I know people that do that and it’s really neat.

Mary Jo: You look at every musician out there or every singer and more often than not, they all come from a family that all played music together.

Bob: You’re right. They did. If you’ve been blessed beyond your needs and you’re fortunate enough to be able to leave a significant financial legacy, our hope is that you would choose to open your heart and give generously for kingdom purposes. The giving toolbox, as we call it today, is forever changing and there’s more tools today available than ever before where we can customize your giving. One of the ideas that moves my heart is the idea of creating an intentional family culture rather than merely a culture by default, which is often the case. So have you thought about how you’re teaching your kids and your grandkids to give of their time, their talent, and their treasure? There’s so much joy in giving as a family, and this is where you can find true contentment.

Mary Jo: These are such big questions and a very thoughtful approach in some of us to pray about, think about, and really see how they fit into our family. If you’d like to get help with your philanthropic decisions like tax efficient tithing strategies, donor advised funds, charitable trusts, or any of the available giving strategies, give Bob or I a call. We are here to assist you and your family with creating a purpose driven legacy. Together, we can create a legacy of giving for your family regardless of the size of the gifts.

[CONCLUSION]

Mary Jo: You’ve been listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us next week as we explore more about how to apply biblical wisdom to your financial situations.

Bob: To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts, you can subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. To learn more about integrating your faith with your finances, visit out website at ciswealth.com or call 830-609-6986.

Mary Jo: That’s all for now until next week.

[DISCLOSURES]

Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

Learn about tax efficient ways that we can donate to charity given the current tax laws.

More episodes >>

Bob and Mary Jo are joined by special guest and brother in Christ, John Madison, CPA. John is the owner and founder of Dayspring Financial Ministry, a biblical financial counseling and coaching ministry. Dayspring offers biblical, personal financial counseling and live workshops. Their counseling and teaching ministries are based on scriptural principles for financial stewardship.

In this episode, John explains the more tax efficient ways that we can donate to charity given the current tax laws. With recent changes to the tax code, this has become a little more challenging. John breaks this down to help us better understand the new laws on tax deductions, donor advised funds, and more.

GUESTS: John Madison, CPA of Dayspring Financial Ministry

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

[INTRODUCTION]

Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

Bob: In scripture. We are called to give the emperor what belongs to him and give God what belongs to God. This is in regards to paying taxes from Mark 12:17. Today we have John Madison, CPA with us. John is the owner and founder of Dayspring Financial Ministry, a biblical financial counseling and coaching ministry. As a CPA and strong Christian, John is going to help us to understand today the more tax efficient ways we can donate to charity, given the current tax laws. With some recent changes to the tax code, this has become a little more challenging. Before we get into that, we want to welcome John to the show and learn more about his mission at Dayspring Financial Ministry.

Mary Jo: Welcome to the podcast, John. Thanks for joining us today. We’re glad to have you.

John: Well, thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity to speak with y’all.

Mary Jo: So John, in preparing for our show today, I read something that you wrote that really resonated with me. You said, “Our responsibility is to grow in our knowledge of him, cultivate our relationship with him in love and seek out his will in all areas of our lives. Then as we begin to consider our financial goals, the process will truly be another expression of worship as we seek his will, not our own.” I found that pretty powerful. Can you tell us a little bit about your walk and how you started your company, Dayspring Financial Ministry?

John: Sure. I’d be happy to. I wasn’t saved until I was 32 years old and up until that point in time, I really lived my life my way. I had a, at least on the outside looking in, a successful career and many of the things that, you know, society says that someone who is happy and successful would have, but I felt very empty inside and unfortunately I turned to alcohol to try to fill that void. And I spent a number of years in addiction with that. Then one day in August of 1998, God really revealed to me, it’s kind of a longer story, So I’ll just, I’ll leave it at that. That he really revealed to me that he was the thing that I was missing that alcohol would never be able to fill. And so I gave my life to him back now 21 years ago. And Amazingly, by his power, my addiction to alcohol was gone, and I’ve been sober now for 21 years. So I gave my life to him and my finances to him and trying to manage it his way instead of my own. A couple of years after that, I started my freelance accounting business, and God certainly blessed that business. And number of years later, 2015, I was able to retire from full time CPA work that when I was 49 and kind of struggled then. I didn’t do a very good job of planning what the next step was and kind of felt lost for a little bit of time as far as what did he want me to do. And a few years prior to moving out of part time work, I did start doing some personal financial coaching and it was really as a ministry. It wasn’t really a business per se. It was just something that I had some knowledge in and some interest in it and wanted to try to help folks with it and really felt once my schedule freed up a lot from my full time work that that’s what God was calling me to go and to do. And so to really teach, or hopefully teach, others how to manage money God’s way. And so I started Dayspring financial ministry to do that, which is just to teach biblical stewardship. I don’t sell investments or insurance products or anything like that. I enjoy the teaching process and that’s what I feel like he’s called me to do for the season on my life.

Bob: What an amazing testimony, John and I do want to say to our podcast listeners, if you have a testimony like that or maybe alcohol may have a grip on you right now and you want to know the Lord as your personal savior and you just want somebody to talk to you, feel free to give us a call anytime and we would love to talk to you about that personal relationship with Christ cause that’s really what we’re about here, isn’t it, John.

John: Amen and we’ll have my contact info at the end of our conversation. They can certainly feel free to call me about that as well. As much as I love talking about personal finance, I love talking about what the Lord has done for me and what he can do for them too.

Bob: Amen, that’s what it’s all about. Well, you know, we’re so grateful, John, that you’ve given your heart to the Lord and your life to the Lord in serving him in the financial area. And I know there’s a lot of resources available out there to help coach our brothers and sisters in Christ that may be struggling financially. They want to start investing for their future, but they’re just not there yet. Maybe they have excess consumer debt or experiencing other forms of financial distress in their lives. Is there a way you can help these individuals through your ministry?

John: Absolutely. One of the things that I do in addition to having talks like this is I do some one on one counseling with folks. They can be anywhere cause I just use telephones and emails and all that to be able to get together with them and, again, try to focus on what’s God’s plan, how does he tell all of us as believers to manage his resources, whether it’s a little or a lot. I think a lot of times the stress that people feel with money is rooted in not having a plan. They don’t really know what to do. And so my hope is that through Dayspring I can be a totally independent resource to help them determine what God’s plan is for them and to make that plan.

Mary Jo: You said something just there, “Stress comes from not having a plan.” I’m writing that down cause I think that is so true. What if the people that need your help, what if they’re strapped financially and can’t afford your services? Are there any ways you can accommodate them?

John: Absolutely. You know, when I started Dayspring I wanted to make sure, well firstly, you know I gave it all to God. It’s his to do what he wants to and I wanted to make sure that anyone who needed help and was ready to address their financial problems could get it even they didn’t have the ability to pay. And now I do volunteer my time to Dayspring. So the fees that are charged for typical one-on-one counseling are pretty low. But if someone doesn’t have the ability to even pay that, I’ll counsel them for free. That’s totally fine. I’ve mentioned my website address, it’s dayspringfm as in Dayspring Financial Ministry, so Dayspringfm.com and if they go to the counseling page, there’s some details about, I call them scholarships for lack of a better term, some scholarships that are available. And I can either reduce the rate or eliminate it completely because I really want to be able to help folks.

Bob: So let me ask you, John, are you a not for profit organization?

John: As of right now, Dayspring is not officially a 501c3 and quite frankly, I’m getting started with Dayspring and as I’m sure y’all know, the administrative work that goes into a 501c3 is pretty heavy. And so really the way I’m looking at it is right now is it’s not officially one, but if God does decide to bless this ministry, I do want to move it to a 501c3 status. I’m just kind of seeing what he wants to do with it right now. And if he does bless it, then yes, I’d like to move to that status.

Mary Jo: Oh, that’d be awesome. Now you mentioned that your main thing is counseling and that you don’t sell any products. What about investment management? Is that something that you do for clients?

John: No, I don’t manage resources for folks. I manage my portfolio, and that’s the only one that I do. I really want to leave this strictly a teaching ministry. We’ll certainly go through investments and we can talk about what scripture says about the principles of investing and I can look at what options they have available. Let’s say it’s through their 401k or something along those lines, but actually all of the decisions, whether it’s investing or debt management or budgeting, whatever it may be, the decisions are always with the client. I want to be here just as a resource to kind of help point them in the right direction and let them make the decision that they feel God leading them to do.

Bob: I know we have some really great information. That’s one of the reasons we wanted to get John on Christian Financial Perspectives to share with our listeners about charitable giving and how charitable giving has changed with these new tax laws. You’re going to give us some ways that we can still maximize our kingdom impact even with these new tax cuts and jobs act that took effect. It really changed things around and how we potentially give to charity. But before we get to that, I’d like to look at the scripture again for some additional wisdom, and we started the show with Mark 12:17 where we are called to give the emperor what belongs to him and give God what belongs to God.

Mary Jo: And another passage that speaks to taxes is from Romans 13:1-7, “Obey rulers, obey the rulers who have authority over you. Only God can give authority to anyone and he puts these rulers in their places of power.” Then in verse 6 Jesus goes on to say, “You must also pay your taxes. The authorities are God’s servants and it’s their duty to care for these matters. Pay all you owe, whether it is taxes and fees or respect and honor.” So John, as a Christian and a CPA, you have what may be a unique perspective on taxes. Can you share your thoughts with our listeners?

John: Absolutely. As the scripture that you just read mentions, we are to render to all their due and that includes taxes to whom taxes are due. And so we’re required by scripture to pay the amount of tax as determined by the laws of our government, whether we like the tax rules or not, or whether we like the way that they spend the tax money or not. But structuring our financial affairs in such a way to minimize the amount of tax is actually endorsed by the government. There was a case before the Supreme Court of back in 1935, a ways back now, and they said in that decision that, I’m going to quote this to show what they’re saying, that the “legal right of a taxpayer to decrease the amount of what otherwise would be his or her taxes or altogether avoid them by means which the law permits cannot be doubted.” So what that tells me is structuring our affairs, our financial affairs, in a way that complies with the law, absolutely. But at the same time minimizes or even eliminates our tax liability is in fact the law of the land. So Christians can utilize the strategies we’re gonna talk about today to reduce their tax burden and still fully comply with what scripture has commanded us to do there in Romans 13:7. And honestly, I’d go as far as to say if we’re going to be the steward of God’s resources, he’s called us to be, I really think we have an obligation to pay the least amount legally in taxes that we can in order to leave more funds available that we can give to kingdom work.

Mary Jo: You know, John, I think we’d all agree that the government doesn’t do the best job in managing those resources so they’re better off in our hands.

Bob: I’ve heard some statistics, I think it is for every dollar you pay in taxes, only about 10% of it gets to where it’s needed. And when you give to a charity, a ministry, it flips, it’s about 90% gets where need needed. Let’s start off and review what is changed regarding the itemized deductions and the new tax laws.

John: Sure. By far the biggest change was the standard deduction amounts basically doubled, so under the old rules about a third of tax payers itemized and of course returns are still coming in on extension, but the estimate is that somewhere between 5% and 10% of folks are going to be itemizing under the new tax law and then they did eliminate some things that were previously deductible as some un-reimbursed business expenses, investment advisor fees, things like that. Charitable contributions are still deductible, but with only 5-10% of taxpayers itemizing going forward, a lot of folks are going to lose the tax benefits associated with their contribution.

Mary Jo: It always used to be that state, local, and income taxes on personal property and real estate were deductible. I think they called these the salt taxes. Does that still play into the standard deduction? Are they still deductible?

John: Well, they are still deductible if you itemize, but they are limited to $10,000 in total per year. So there are certainly a lot of areas, I don’t know the economics in your part of the country, but around here it’s not that . If you own a home and you have some income and you’re paying some taxes to easily hit that $10,000 cap and anything above that is just non-deductible.

Bob: What about medical expenses? Do these have a cap? Do these still factor into the itemized deductions?

John: Yeah, they still do. They’ve raised it to only the portion above. 10% of your adjusted gross income are deductible. And again, with so few people itemizing anyway, there really would be just a few, a very small number probably, of folks that will continue to be able to actually deduct medical expenses and realize some tax benefit from it.

Mary Jo: So we really wanted to focus in on the key strategies that can actually work given the new tax laws. And you mentioned to help givers maximize their charitable gifts in the most taxed advantaged way that you have 4 key strategies that really work. And those are to number 1, donate appreciated investments. Number 2, make use of a donor advised fund. 3, use qualified charitable distributions and 4 finally gifting at death. So I’m anxious to hear how those add up.

Bob: What can you share with our listeners about donating appreciated investments?

John: Sure. If you, if you donate an appreciated investments, that could be a stock or a mutual fund or some ETF shares, that you’ve held over a year, that’s a key component. It has to be over a year. You can deduct the market value of that donation, not what you actually paid for it, and you don’t have to claim that appreciation as taxable income.

Mary Jo: You know, I think that this one can get a little complicated and there are some logistics that take place behind the scenes. So can you walk us through how all of that works?

John: Sure, yeah. There’s definitely some leg work that will need to be done to do this strategy because you have to remember you’re actually donating the shares. You’re not selling the shares and donating the cash, so therefore the charity or the church that you’re giving it to has to have a way to receive those shares and then they sell them. And quite honestly, a lot of smaller charities and churches probably don’t have those types of accounts already. And imagine too, as well, suppose you wanted to make donations to several different organizations. You’d have to do a fair amount of work to make sure that each one of those organizations were able to receive those shares and sell it themselves.

Bob: John, the new rules on deductions are going to mean that most investors won’t have enough to take advantage of itemizing their deductions and will be held to just the standard deduction unless they get really creative. But one of those ways to get creative is to bunch or cluster those deductions in one year, so you may be able to itemize every other year, give or take. Can you talk about this and how a donor advised fund could help with that?

John: Absolutely. When you’re using a donor advised fund, you actually get the tax deduction when you contribute an asset or cash to the donor advised fund, not when the the investments or the dollars, leave the donor advised fund and go to the ultimate charity. So that means you can bunch up or collect up and donate several years worth of your giving into the donor advised fund in one tax year and probably be able to itemize that year. And then in subsequent year or years, you can take the new higher standard deduction so that the end result is that the total deductions that you’re allowed to take over a multi year period is actually higher, meaning you’ll pay less in taxes. And this is a strategy that my wife and I have used ourselves for a number of years.

Mary Jo: I think I get it now. The actual donor advised fund is a charity in itself. So, when you make that donation to the donor advised fund, you’re making the donation to a charity. And that way then it becomes a ride off that year, but you don’t have to distribute it all that same year. So it’s actually a 501c3 in and of itself. So what does that mean to our listeners?

John: You hit the nail on the head because they are a charity. That’s what makes that contribution that your listener makes into the donor advised fund. That’s what makes it deductible because they are in fact a charity themselves. But what’s unique about the donor advised fund is while you do lose ownership of the contribution, it is irrevocable, you cannot get it back. You do retain the right, though, to make grant requests where the donor advised fund will pass along all or a portion of what you’ve contributed to the charity of your choosing. Again, assuming that they are qualified charity, of course. So your church, for example, you could make a larger contribution into the donor advised fund and then have the donor advised fund each month send a check to your church for your tithe, but you’re able to bunch up all of those, maybe multi years of tithing, into one tax year to be able to itemize.

Bob: If I’m hearing you correctly and summarizing this back from my perspective and hearing this is that they get all the deduction right now and then they can give it away from their donor advised fund to their church or charities at any point in the future.

John: Yes, absolutely, and the charity or the church will receive a check just like if the offering plate is passing you by and you place your personal check in there. From their end, from their perspective, it’s exactly the same thing that they get a check in that they can use for their ministry work, and you can even designate funds when the donor advised fund distributes the money. You can actually designate it to certain projects at the church if you’d like. You can just make that a part of the grant that you’re recommending.

Mary Jo: What if I don’t know who I want to give it away to yet?

John: Well, that’s the beauty of the donor advised fund. You can decide later on who you want to receive the contribution, but you get the tax benefits and the tax deduction upfront when you make your contribution.

Bob: Yeah. I remember this a couple of years ago, Mary Jo and John, we had a client that sold a large business and I wish we had got to him for planning before he sold it because then we could look at a charitable remainder trust, but that’s another day to talk about or another another time. But he came to us after it was sold, and he sold the business for about 3.5 Million dollars and he wanted to tithe off that, but he was in a very small church and he didn’t want to give all that money to that church right then, $350,000 so we opened up a donor advised fund for him. We put that into the donor advised fund, and then he’s given it to his church over time. And you know, one of the reasons he told me he didn’t want to do that is because the church was so small that he was concerned if he gave it all to the church then, then the church would not need money from anyone else. It would take away, possibly, the tithing of the other members because they’d say, “Well, he’s giving away everything. They don’t need anything from us.”

Mary Jo: Interesting. So another item that complicates taxable income are required minimum distributions. Many of our clients have more money than they need, believe it or not, and they don’t actually need their RMDs to cover their living expenses. It actually just creates additional taxable income to them and puts them into a higher bracket. So as givers, are there ways that they can use their RMDs to make charitable donations more taxed advantaged?

John: Absolutely. If someone is subject to RMDs, which basically means they’re 70 and a half years of age or older and and have pretax accounts like an IRA or 401K or 403B, something like that. They have to take out a certain amount from that account each year and of course pay taxes on it when they take it out. So, instead of receiving the RMD themselves, they can actually donate it. It’s called a qualified charitable distribution. You can donate it to a charity, and if you would have needed the RMD for your living expenses, you can then actually take the cash that you would have donated to the charity and use that for your living expenses instead. So, by donating the RMD, the nice thing is you don’t have to claim that as income and by avoiding the income, that could have other beneficial effects on your tax return. For example, maybe less of your social security income would be taxed because your income is lower. Maybe you’ll pay less in medicare premiums because your income is lower. Like we mentioned earlier, the medical bills are only deductible if they’re over 10% of your AGI, your Adjusted Gross Income. If you reduce your adjusted gross income, therefore more of your medical bills may be deductible. So it’s a great strategy if you’re charitably inclined.

Bob: Now, John, there’s some tax laws though on this, isn’t there, and I’m going to need you to clarify this for me about required minimum distributions. You can give it to a charity, and we were talking about donor advised funds, but can you give your required minimum distributions to a donor advised fund?

John: No, you cannot. That’s specifically not allowed by the code.

Bob: That’s what I thought. I just wanted to make sure we clarified that.

John: So using a donor advised funds and qualified charitable deductions, they’re also great strategies for gifting during life, but the fourth strategy you mentioned was gifting at death. How is this different and what tax strategies can you share about this?

John: Well sure. If you plan to make charitable contributions from your estate that’s part of the legacy that you want to leave. Just make sure that you’re donating from pretax accounts like traditional IRAs and 401k’s. Of course charities don’t pay taxes so they can receive that traditional IRA, let’s say, and sell it and there is no tax consequences to them because they are a charity. So make sure that you’re leaving things like life insurance, leave that to your family because that’s usually tax free. And those Roth IRAs, leave those to your family because they’ll enjoy those tax free benefits as well and even your taxable brokerage accounts so they’re not within a tax preferred wrapper, if you will, leave those to your family as well because they would receive a stepped up basis on those assets. So, any charitable contributions, try to designate it from your traditional pretax retirement accounts.

Bob: I’m so glad you’re saying this because for years what I’ve been telling my clients is the beneficiary of your IRAs make that your charities in the taxed accounts. The nonqualified money, leave that to your children. Just makes so much sense tax wise and financially.

John: Absolutely.

Mary Jo: So there really are some strategic ways to continue to give to charity even with the limitations on the new tax laws regarding deductions. That makes me think about the big question, how much is enough and what would God have me do with the excess if I have more than what I need for a comfortable retirement as well as accomplishing, you know, those personal financial goals that I have? I know that not everybody’s in that situation, but we do have a good number of our listeners who have been blessed and are very fortunate, and this gives them some food for thought. John, you talk a lot about tithing cheerfully, and I know you’ve investigated a lot on tithing strategies and what this means to Christians and how they can give more generously by taking advantage of these tax efficient strategies. So if you will answer this for me, besides the obvious benefit to the church, what are the benefits of tithing to the givers?

John: Sure. In Malakai 3, God calls on us to test him with our tither. I find it interesting that this is the only area, at least in my knowledge, that God actually asks us to test him. And it says in verse 10 that if we’re giving our tithe cheerfully, that he’ll open up the windows of Heaven and pour out for you such blessings that there will not be room enough to receive it. Now, those blessings may come in the form of financial gain or they may be in some other form. But what’s important is that we cheerfully gave it to him, that he received it, and in turn he’s going to bless us in a manner that he sees fit. So regardless of the form those blessings may take, we can be assured that whatever blessing it is is going to exceed our expectations. So we should always tithe as a form of worship and obedience, not because it’s some business deal that we’re going to get something out of because he certainly knows our hearts and whether we’re giving with the proper attitude or not.

Mary Jo: Does this have to be done directly to our local church? Not Everybody has a church that they frequent, but can they give to other kingdom purposes as part of their tithing strategies?

John: For me, tithing means my local church. You know, the church that I’m a member of. Offerings are gifts above the top and they can certainly go to charitable causes and you know, we’re called and scripture to be a part of a body of believers. And think of obedient Christians, that’s what they should be doing, if at all possible, at least wherever they may be located. The tithes should go to the storehouse of the local church.

Mary Jo: Interesting.

Bob: John, you have some interesting statistics on tithing. Can you share those with our listeners?

John: Sure, yeah, just a few of them that I think are really meaningful that Christians need to kind of take a step back and look at how we’re doing with what God has blessed us with. But there was a study from last year that really shows some sad statistics in my mind. Only about 2% of Christians tithe, meaning, you give a 10% of their increase to the Lord. Today’s Christians on average give about 2.5% of their income. And to make that even worse, during the Great Depression, Christians gave 3.3% of their income and for families making $75,000 or more, only 1% tither. You know, these are probably the folks of any families out there that would have the means and the cashflow to be able to do it, yet only 1% do.

Mary Jo: Wow. So before we let you go, can you share with our listeners a little about, you’ve got some live financial workshops that you prepare and put on. How can our listeners bring these to the attention of their local church or maybe their pastor and see if that’s something that would be helpful to their local area?

John: Absolutely. First a little bit about the workshops. It’s kind of a two parter. The first part of it is on financial stewardship and it kind of introduces the steward plan, as I call it, for managing God’s resources in a manner that’s consistent with his word. We look at scripture, then we introduce the stewardship principle and then we take it for specific application in today’s financial environment. So we’ll talk about things like setting financial goals and tithing and budgeting and dealing with debt and building wealth, things like that. The second part of the presentation of the workshop is all on tax efficient tithing like we’ve been talking about this morning, but we’ll be able to go into a lot more details and actually work some examples that numbers really don’t translate very well when we’re speaking, but we’re able to go through a long PowerPoint presentation to show a lot of examples of that. Combined, the two workshops run about three hours, so it’s great for like a Saturday morning boot camp kind of thing or maybe a couple of consecutive evenings and break it down into two different parts.

Bob: Is there a charge for these workshops to the church or to the members?

John: No. There’s no charge to the church or the participants. I don’t charge for my time to present these workshops. Again, God’s placed me here with the ability to go and do these things and I certainly want to share this knowledge. Obviously some travel would be involved. If a church is able to help with travel expenses, great. That’ll allow me to get to more places to speak about stewardship, but it certainly is not required. So anyone who’s interested can feel free to email me at [email protected] with any questions, and I’d certainly welcome the chance to talk about coming to their church to give these presentations.

Bob: Thank you for that.

Mary Jo: So we covered a lot of great information today. I just really want to thank you for sharing and being so open with our listeners. You just gave us how to reach you at your website, but are there any other contact details that you can provide?

John: Well sure. As we’ve said, the email is [email protected]. The website is dayspringfm.com and they can even call me. The number’s right there on the website or I’ll give it to you now as well. It’s (804) 883-6528, and I’d be happy to talk to them about the workshops or whatever coaching needs they may have. I’m available.

Bob: Well John, it has been an honor to have you on Christian Financial Perspectives. You fit like a glove here, so you know, I mean you fit with what we’re all about. So we want to thank you and your incredible ministry, Dayspring Financial Ministry. You’ve been such a wonderful guest today. You’ve really opened our eyes on how to be more strategic with our giving in order to maximize our impact and work within those new tax laws as well. You gave us some interesting food for thought on tithing and how we could see in our own hearts to open our fist and let God’s resources flow out. Open that hand up and grow the kingdom. Let’s end on this. God loves a cheerful giver. Any last thing you’d like to say, John, before we end the podcast?

John: No, I just appreciate the opportunity to come on and speak to your audience and again, feel free for them to reach out to me whatever way is most convenient for them.

Mary Jo: Awesome. Thank you so much for being with us.

John: Thank you.

[CONCLUSION]

Mary Jo: You’ve been listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us next week as we explore more about how to apply biblical wisdom to your financial situations.

Bob: To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts, you can subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. To learn more about integrating your faith with your finances, visit out website at ciswealth.com or call 830-609-6986.

Mary Jo: That’s all for now until next week.

[DISCLOSURES]

Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.

Bob and Mary Jo discuss more of the most commonly asked questions that they get from clients.

More episodes >>

Contentment is a quality that we are always striving for. As Philippians 4:11-13 states, “I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content; I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.”

As Wealth Advisors, Bob and Mary Jo are continually asked both hard and easy questions. However, they get many of the same questions over and over as clients strive to find contentment with their financial situation(s). With this in mind, this episode covers some more of the top questions that many financial advisors, like Bob and Mary Jo, are asked on a daily basis.

If you have a question that isn’t covered in this episode, we encourage you to contact Christian Financial Advisors by calling 830-609-6986 or email us at [email protected] and someone on the team will get back to you with the answer. If you’d like to learn more about working with Bob or Mary Jo, you can schedule an introductory meeting by clicking on the buttons in the section below!

HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA® and Mary Jo Lyons, CFP®, CKA®

Want to ask a question about your specific situation? Schedule a complimentary 15 minute phone call.

[INTRO]

Bob: Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, a weekly podcast where we talk about ways to integrate your faith with your finances. This is Bob Barber.

Mary Jo: And I’m Mary Jo Lyons.

Bob: Are you ready to learn how to apply biblical wisdom to everyday financial decisions?

Mary Jo: Join us as we look at integrating your faith with your finances. If it’s your first time listening, welcome to our podcast, and if you’re a returning listener, welcome back.

[EPISODE]

Bob: So for today’s podcast, we picked Psalms 34:4-7 out of God’s word. “I sought the Lord and he answered me. He delivered me from all my fears. Those who looked at him are radiant. Their faces are never covered with shame. This poor man called and the Lord heard him. He saved him out of all his troubles. The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him and he delivers them.” So today we’re going to be covering answers to questions that so many people have and many times when you don’t know what those answers are, it can be chaotic. So, we want you to really be content and learn to live in contentment. You know, I love how Paul Mentions in Philippians 4: 11-13, “I’ve learned in whatever situation to be content. I can do all things through him who strengthens me.” So, you got those questions. Today, we have those answers and hopefully we’ll give you some contentment.

Mary Jo: Ah, I just love that scripture, Bob. It just puts me in a sense of peace overall when I hear it, you know, just definitely lowers my blood pressure. So, I know that he’s with us and that he’s going to be with us today as we share these answers, and we do get a lot of these questions and what’s interesting and clients and prospects asked many of the same questions over and over again. So, we hear these consistently. And with that in mind, we figured that many of our podcast listeners had the same questions. So, today we’re going to go review some more of the top questions we get asked and share some of those answers with you.

Bob: Yeah, cause we did a podcast, I think it was in February that was about questions, but we felt like we needed to bring back and even go over more just because, like you say, what are the answers and we’re hoping to give you those answers here on the podcast. If we don’t cover your question today, we encourage you to contact us at Christian Financial Advisors. You can give us a call during business hours at 830-609-6986 or you can email us at [email protected], and someone on our team will get back to you with that answer.

Mary Jo: If you’d like to learn more about working with us, we can schedule an introductory meeting with either Bob or myself on our website at ciswealth.com. All you have to do is click on the “Meet With An Advisor” button on the top right hand corner of the website, and we look forward to hearing from you as always.

Bob: So let’s get into some of those questions, Mary Jo.

Mary Jo: Alright, so one of the first ones, and I guess this is probably the most common question we get, is always on social security. What happens to social security when your spouse dies? Should I take it early, like at 62? Those are good questions. As a spouse, there are a couple of things you should know about your social security benefits. This applies to current spouses, ex-spouses, and deceased spouses if you are a widow or widower. You can claim a social security benefit based on your own earnings record, or you can collect a spousal benefit which is half of the amount of your spouse’s social security benefit as calculated by the IRS at their full retirement age, whichever is greater, so you have a choice. What’s interesting is this also applies to your current spouse, your ex spouse, and that’s assuming you were married for at least 10 years. Taking a spousal benefit does not reduce or change the amount that your current spouse gets, your ex spouse and what they get, or your ex spouse’s current spouse receives. As an ex spouse, you take a spousal benefit, it’s not going to change what your ex husband gets or their current spouse gets. So, it’s an additional benefit above all of that. I know sometimes our hearts not in the right place. We may hope that the new spouse is getting less, but that’s not really the case.

Bob: So, if you become a widow or a widower, you can collect survivor’s death benefit as early as age 60. We get that question a lot because, unfortunately, we do have people that lose their spouse before that time, and they’re wondering, can I get some of that benefit now. You have got to wait until 60. Widows and widowers can restrict their application to file for either their own benefit or the widow widower benefit and then later switch to the other benefit’s amount. So you’d want to do that if it’s a higher amount, of course, and you might do this if your own benefit amount at age 70 would be larger than your own widow benefit. Now, I want to make sure that that makes sense to you. Again, let me say that. You might do this if your own benefit amount at age 70 would be higher than your widow benefit amount.

Mary Jo: The thing is, is at 60, you’re eligible for the widow or widower’s benefit. You’re not eligible for your own benefit until a minimum of age 62. So ideally, you start your widow or widower’s benefit at age 60, and let yours continue to grow, and it will outpace the widow or widower’s benefit until age 70 and then you can switch over.

Bob: That’s exactly right. So once you and your spouse start receiving social security benefits upon the death of your spouse, you will continue to receive your benefit or your spouses, but not both. Okay. You can’t collect double.

Mary Jo: No, it doesn’t work that way.

Bob: So in addition, surviving spouse living in the same household is eligible to receive a lump sum, one time payment, $255, upon the death of a spouse. So, that’s one of the questions that we get a lot about social security. Another question that we get, and I seem like I get this one weekly without a doubt, is should I take my social security early? When I get this question, One of the things is, is that the break even point kind of hovers around the age of 80-84 using a discounted cash flow analysis. So, what I mean by that is let’s say – you can! You can start taking your social security early before your full retirement age, as early as 62 or even 64 or 63, but the break even point for you to do that versus waiting is, again, going to be around the age of 80-84 using a discounted cash flow analysis. So, it has a lot to do with how long do you feel like you’re going to live and you know, is your aunt and your uncle and your sisters and your parents, did they live past that age? So if they did, it may make sense to wait to take social security until the full benefit amount or even 70, but it has a lot to do with a non-working spouse and their life expectancy as well. Plus, many other factors like cashflow or how much is in your savings? Are you going to use your investment portfolio to live on? An example of that would be, let’s say I’m going to retire at 62, and I’m going to have to take money out of my investment portfolio to live on, or I can take my social security benefit at that point. So, those are two areas that you have to look at and you have to put all these numbers into a financial planning program and see how it all works, right?

Mary Jo: Yep, exactly. One of the biggest considerations is what’s your health like? Are you likely to live that way? Even if your mom and dad lived to 96, you’ve been impacted by cancer or diabetes or something along that line, what’s the likelihood that you’re gonna live to age 96. So, all of those things weigh into this decision, and it’s an important decision.

Bob: Yes, it is.

Mary Jo: Another question we get asked is can we just combine our IRAs? So, I thought it would be kind of helpful to understand a little bit more about what an account registration is. Does it matter and what does it mean? Account registrations or titles – they’re very important. In fact, such an important topic that we actually did a podcast episode, and we titled that “What’s In A Name?” So, an account registration is the same thing as the title of the account, and it indicates ownership of the assets that are held in the account. It’s the ownership that’s so important here. So, for example, most spouses will hold after tax assets in a joint account, and it’s titled a joint tenant with rider survivorship. And what that means is both spouses own the assets equally, and each spouse has complete control of the account. So the husband, the wife, either one could spend it write a check for the entire balance, and they have every right to do so. If one of them dies, the balance goes to the remaining spouse. So, they have complete control and complete ownership of the entire portfolio there.

Bob: But an IRA or 401k, they’re separate, and they cannot combine them. And that’s that question, like again, we get a lot is can we just combine them to make one account. And the answer that is no, you can’t, because you would be co-mingling different types of assets.

Mary Jo: Right, and you can kind of understand that when you look at what does IRA stands for – Individual Retirement Account. So, it’s in one name and one name only, and the assets belong to that individual and they can’t be co-mingled.

Bob: Now, here’s a really cute question we get, and Mary Jo, you live in, like, the retirement haven of Texas. And not only that, it is one of the top retirement spots of the whole United States cause it’s just awesome down there in Rockport, Texas. If y’all have never been, as our listeners, you need to go to Rockport. It’s just a beautiful place.

Mary Jo: We love it.

Bob: It’s being rebuilt after the hurricane. How is it? Is it Looking good down there?

Mary Jo: It is. There’s so much progress, and it does my heart good. You know, there’s still some work to be done, and it’s a work in progress, but so much has changed and improved and things are coming back to life, and we’re so happy. You mentioned it, Bob. We do live in this little neighborhood and every single one of these retirees around us. You know what’s interesting? They all have dogs.

Bob: Okay, so here’s the question, right? This is the fun one, right in the middle of all this. Can my pets be a part of the estate plan? Your pets, they become like family. You know, last night we went over to a client’s house and yeah, their lab is just laying their cheek in my lap, and then they’ve got the other one. You can see how important these pets are to them. So can that furry friend be a part of the estate plan? The answer to that is, Mary Jo, I’m going to let you share it.

Mary Jo: Yes, there are definitely ways to include that. We spend a lot on our pets. For some people, they are family. So you should consider some of this. And if you have a devoted very friend, we recommend that you do make provisions for both their care and custody upon your death. So keep in mind however, the animals can’t own property, so you can’t leave property directly to your pet. That seems like a no brainer, but you can leave a pet bequest in your will, which I typically would identify as who you would prefer to care for your beloved fluffy and/or an amount of funds left for their specific care as well as a contingency option. So, if you leave your pet to your sister, but what if she predeceases you? You see, you kind of want to have a backup plan there. And another more complicated and more expensive option is to actually set up a pet trust. And yes, there are such things as pet trusts. Pet trusts are available in all states. There are pros and cons to using them, but if you’re interested in learning more, we’d also recommend that you speak with your estate planning attorney to discuss further. There are all kinds of interesting provisions and there’s a few more. Bob, you want to go over those?

Bob: Well, I’m going to say you’re gonna want to go to Rockport to find an attorney that understands this pet stuff.

Mary Jo: Oh, I think they’re pretty widespread. Remember, who was it? Leona Helmsley, the big rich lady. She did just this, so it happens.

Bob: I know, I know. It’s crazy. Yep.

Mary Jo: So if you have a will with no provision for your pet, your pet will go to your residuary beneficiary. The person you’ve named to get the remainder of your state after any specific gifts have been dulled out. And if you don’t have a will, all your property, including Fido, will be distributed according to state intestate laws. And those are the laws if you die without a will. There’s also several legacy programs and these are actually kind of interesting and they are available across the country that allow you to leave your pet to a trustee caretaker after you die, such as an SPCA, maybe a veterinary school program, or a private animal rescue organization and sanctuaries. You see this on Facebook all the time. Sanctuaries for elderly pets, they’ve become quite common. So if that’s a concern and you’re aging and maybe your pet is aging, but you want to make sure they live comfortably out their old age, something to think about and take care of. And I know we make fun of this and joke about it, but there are people that they love their pets and they want to make sure they’re taken care of. So, we want to take that seriously.

Bob: Now, on to the next subject about contributing to an IRA after I retire. Again, this is a question we get a lot. Can I contribute to an IRA after I retire? Well, you know what? It depends. You and your spouse must have earned income from wages, salaries, commissions, alimony, and separate maintenance payments as well as none taxable, combat pay. So, if you’re self employed and you have a net loss for your business, don’t subtract that loss from salaries or wages when figuring your total compensation. If you file a joint tax return, this income can either be yours or your spouses, and you can always make a spousal IRA contribution on behalf of your non-working spouse, as long as you don’t exceed the annual contribution limits. So, this may or may not be tax deductible depending on your income limits and/or participation in an employer sponsored qualified plan. You can also contribute to an IRA up until the year you turn 70 and a half at which the time is you have to start actually taking money out. We call those RMDs or Required Minimum Distributions.

Mary Jo: Just a great question Bob, and we do get that one a lot. Another one that we get asked a lot is, you know, I don’t have a lot of money saved, but will you still work with me? I need help and I have questions but I don’t have a million dollars. And the answer to that is yes. At Christian Financial Advisors, we don’t have a minimum account size, but we do have a minimum fee, and you can meet that minimum fee with a combination of a financial planning fee and/or a fee for investment management. We can kind of charge both of those and make sure that it’s fair to both parties, and we’ll certainly look at your own situation. So, if you’re interested in that, give us a call, and we’d be happy to talk about it more detail. So Bob, the next one is a doozy. Why don’t you take that one?

Bob: When can I retire? I get this all the time, especially from those that are between 55 and 60 because I’ve been thinking about early retirement. Is that possible? That’s a big, big question. When can I retire? It really depends on so many different factors like how much do you have to generate in income replacement? What are you going to need to live on? Do you have income generating assets? How much debt do you have? When do you want to start taking social security and expect to? What other sources of income might you have? Like maybe a rental home or several. What is your life expectancy? How’s your health? Do you have a plan for covering longterm care costs and health care costs in retirement? You can get a retiree health care coverage plan, but it’s not cheap. And Mary Jo, I know that y’all are experiencing a little bit of this right now since Mike is retired, right?

Mary Jo: Absolutely, and we’re not on Medicare yet, so you have to look at that in part of your cashflow. Can you cover the premium of healthcare?

Bob: You get the idea. There’s a lot of considerations you’ve got to think about before thinking about retiring early. You have got to sit down with a financial advisor and look at all your assets and your balance sheet. What do you owe,? What can you live on? Do you have enough to generate that? And that takes time and a lot of really digging deep to see what are your financial goals as well.

Mary Jo: But that’s what we do here at Christian Financial Advisors, and we’re happy to help you with that question.

Bob: We do that every day. You got it. All right, Mary Jo, you cover the next one.

Mary Jo: All right, so how will you consider my investments that you don’t actually manage such as my 401k? That’s a great question. At Christian Financial Advisors, we are a registered investment advisory firm. And as representatives at CIS, Bob and I are both serve as fiduciaries for our clients, and as a Certified Financial Planner, I am additionally charged with serving as a fiduciary, and Bob and I are both Certified Kingdom Advisors, which also make us serve as fiduciaries. So you get that? We’re fiduciaries. That means that our advice that we offer, it’s always in the client’s best interest. While we have discretion to make investment decisions on the assets we manage, we do not have discretion to make investment decisions on assets we don’t manage. However, as a fiduciary advisor, it’s really important that we review all of your assets and provide guidance to our clients in order to ensure your overall or aggregate portfolio – it’s properly diversified and invested according to your risk tolerance. So we wouldn’t serve you well if we weren’t looking at the 401k and other retirement accounts and other investments that we don’t manage. That would just be giving you partial advice, and it doesn’t make sense to do that.

Bob: Yeah. I want to say something in here. Yeah. It’s just like a doctor. They want to know your entire health history before they start making recommendations about what medicine to take. Recommendations about what surgery they need to do. It’s the same way in the financial realm. To make any recommendations, we’ve got to understand your entire, full financial picture. It’s like a blueprint.

Mary Jo: Yes. And that’s part of our advisory services. So if a client has sufficient assets with the firm, we may include this as part of our service for the fee that we receive for the assets that we do manage. So, it’s all part of the package.

Bob: Right. So we’re not charging for a financial planning fee and asset management fee. The financial planning is included in the asset management if the assets are high enough.

Mary Jo: And if they’re not, then we look at well, what makes sense? What’s fair to both parties? And we might charge a financial planning fee in addition to the assets under management fee. So we’ll be charging a separate fee for that service, if appropriate, in your situation. Yes, we can, and do, look at your 401k assets or other retirement accounts as part of our advisory and investment review process.

Bob: Okay. So here’s another one we get a lot. We’re very vocal about this, that we’re values based and fiduciary driven. We get this from our website. People will do a search and they’ll find our website, and it says that right on the front. So, we get the question, what does this mean? So the values based is both Mary Jo and I, we’re Certified Kingdom Advisors, and what does that mean? Well, that means we incorporate biblical principles into all of our financial planning and advice. If you’ve listened to our podcast for very long, you know that we believe God owns it all and that the Bible is the handbook that tells us how to manage it, and we use Christian values, Christian principles like integrity, serving, loyalty and lasting relationships, good stewardship, morality, family, charity, and putting others first because that’s what God’s word tells us to do and that’s what we mean by values based. Our planning and advice is based on years of experience, time proven principles, and wisdom. We guide you in making very wise choices to help you pursue your goals that line up with your values and these Christian values. Also, we help you by investing in responsible companies that have a positive impact on our society while avoiding those known in unethical activities.

Mary Jo: And as you mentioned and we were talking about earlier, that whole fiduciary driven, we believe that our client’s needs and welfare come first. We’re proud to say that we are a fiduciary based firm, meaning that we act as a trusted financial advocate for you, our clients, and we exist to serve you and not the other way around. And that’s what we mean by fiduciary.

Bob: Okay, so we got two or three more questions here we want to go over because we got a lot of them. Again, if you have a question that we haven’t covered today, always feel free to give us a call and ask us that question. (830) 609-6986 is our number at Christian Financial Advisors group. Or, you can email us [email protected] and ask a question if we haven’t covered it, but maybe we’ll cover yours in these next few ones as well. So, what happens if I die or become incapacitated? And the most important benefit we see in working with a trusted financial advocate is having someone in your corner who knows your spouse and who knows you and knows what your longterm financial and legacy goals are so we can immediately step in and assist with those difficult decisions in a time of crisis. Like we are, we’re fiduciary driven advisor. We’re going to give you the advice that’s in your best interest. We’ve discussed this in the past, we know what’s on your heart, and can help your loved ones navigate in those difficult times. We’ve worked with you to understand what specifics you have in place in your financial documents, such as your will, your power of attorney for both your financial and medical needs as well as the living will, and we’ve often guided you in coordinating these documents as part of your estate plan while working alongside your estate planning attorney.

Mary Jo: Another point I’d like to share on this question is we as your advisor are often the first to know if we see signs of diminished capacity. So, we have several key questions we ask all of our clients, and this is especially true of our aging clients, and more specifically around the time they turn 65. This is one of those milestone birthdays. It’s just kind of a nonthreatening, good chance, a good best practice. So we’ll ask these questions and that includes what would you like us to do if we see signs of confusion in the decision making process as it relates to your investments? What would you like us to do? As I mentioned, it’s often the advisor who’s the first to notice signs of dementia. We also inquire about who the client would like us to notify in this case, and ideally this is a member of the family that we’re already familiar about that we have come to know as part of working with the family. We make it a priority, developing relationships with multi-generations in the family as we serve you and build that longterm lasting relationship.

Bob: All right, this next question is how do I protect all my personal information? Yeah, that’s a good one. It’s a big one today. Protecting personal indentifiable information is a key part of the fiduciary duty to our clients. We follow the industry’s best practices and we have firm policies in place to ensure that this happens. We have access to highly secure software that allows us to set up a client document portal, which allows us to post documents for our clients and for them to share them with us, and this tool is one of the best ways for us to securely share data back and forth with our clients. Our system that we use, it uses a 256 bit secure socket layer to scramble data. Routine security testing is done by third party security auditors. Data is secured at geographically separated data centers. In addition to that, we maintain a clean desk initiative, avoid printing unnecessary documents and utilize locking files in our secure offices. We even use a cloud based document archive and storage system that complies with standard industry regulatory requirements. So, we take your privacy and security very seriously and maintain every reasonable precaution to protect it. After every review we have, those documents get shredded, so nothing’s ever sitting around.

Mary Jo: That’s exactly right. So Bob, the next question, and we get asked a lot, and it’s one we covered before, but it’s on everybody’s mind. This is routine for us. Should I pay off my home mortgage or continue to save and invest? And the answer is, well…

Bob: …that depends. Yeah. Mary Jo, I have so many that they’ll say, I want to pay off my mortgage and they’re gonna do it. They’re thinking they’re gonna do it by taking all the money out of their IRAs or 401ks to do it. So I always come back and say, well, the taxes are going to cost you more than the interest. So one of the things that no one ever thinks about is mortgage interest is constantly de-compounding. In other words, you’re paying less and less interest over the years while your savings is compounding. When you put the interest you pay versus the interest you make at a very low reasonable rate and look at the two. It’s interesting what comes out. Does that make sense to you, Mary Jo?

Mary Jo: Yeah. Another way to look at it is what’s the taxable equivalent yield? And I think that’s a term people may be more familiar with. What is the money actually costing you? So we have historically low interest rate, so you’re financing it, and if you’re anywhere south of 5%, that’s a great mortgage rate. I always say it’s all about the cost of the money. If you can earn more on your money versus what it’s costing you to maintain your mortgage. I kind of look at this different. The Bible always says to avoid the use of debt. I think of that more as consumer credit cards, consumer debt, whereas a mortgage is backed up by real estate. You always have the house you could sell in the case of an emergency. You’re leveraging your money to have it work for you in the market and keep it working for you, but you have access to it so you could pay it off if you chose to, but sometimes the numbers indicate that your money ahead to maintain that mortgage.

Bob: Because that consumer debt is always losing value and losing it fast.

Mary Jo: Yeah, and it’s at a much higher rate.

Bob: Itemized deductions are going to be harder and harder if you can’t get to the mortgage deduction, which might not help as much going forward from the overall tax perspective. So, the mortgage deduction used to be a valuable tool to help individuals minimize their taxes, but going forward, it may not be so easy with the new tax laws.

Mary Jo: So, we’ll have to do some calculations, talk about your situation and what’s important to you and you know, is it keeping you up at night? We don’t want that to happen either. This is a great topic and one that we’ll look to explore further with you. We want you to keep those questions coming. Again, Bob and I are available for a complimentary initial consultation to answer your questions. All you have to do is go to our website ciswealth.com and click on “Meet With An Advisor” button at the top of the page. The best compliment you can give us is to refer those you care about. We’re grateful for the many referrals we get from our clients and our friends, and if you know anyone who would enjoy listening to today’s podcast, please forward the link or the email broadcast and encourage them to give a listen to Christian Financial Perspectives.

Bob: That’s all for today.

[CONCLUSION]

Mary Jo: You’ve been listening to Christian Financial Perspectives. Join us next week as we explore more about how to apply biblical wisdom to your financial situations.

Bob: To make sure you don’t miss any of our podcasts, you can subscribe to Christian Financial Perspectives on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. To learn more about integrating your faith with your finances, visit out website at ciswealth.com or call 830-609-6986.

Mary Jo: That’s all for now until next week.

[DISCLOSURES]

Comments from today’s show are for informational purposes only and not to be considered investment advice or recommendations to buy or sell any company that may have been mentioned or discussed. The opinions expressed are solely those of the hosts, Bob Barber and Mary Jo Lyons. Bob and Mary Jo do not provide tax advice and encourage you to seek guidance from a tax professional. Investment advisory services offered through Christian Investment Advisors Inc. DBA Christian Financial Advisors, a registered investment advisor.