Back in 2020, members of the violent group The Proud Boys jumped a fence and defaced the Black Lives Matter sign at Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church. They filmed themselves destroying the sign while chanting racial epithets.

Metropolitan AME wasn’t the only Black church in D.C. to be attacked that night, but their response to the violence was unique. They sued the Proud Boys for damages, and when the group failed to pay, the church won the rights to their trademark. Now, they’re selling merch using the PB logo to raise money for their Community Justice Fund.

It’s an amazing story, but it’s only the backdrop to our conversation this week with Reverend Lamar. Katie and LaFonda’s conversation with him spanned so many topics, from the importance of storytelling to the power of love to how to have conversations with our family members at the holiday table. They discussed how the far-right has tried to co-opt Christianity but progressive pastors like Rev. Lamar are still fighting for justice and love — you know, actual Christian values.

Rev. Lamar has a book coming out next year called Ancestors: Those Who Bless Us, Curse Us, and Hold Us. He’s more directly connected to the past than most—Metropolitan AME is the oldest continuously Black-owned property in D.C and held the funerals of Frederick Douglass and Rosa Parks—but we’re all shaped by our ancestors. In recognizing our ancestors, we recognize the stories we tell about ourselves.

This conversation is a great way to get in the Christmas spirit, but even if you don’t celebrate, his humanity and leadership are inspiring. We hope you enjoy it.

And if you'd like to join us for our virtual "Pre-Gaming 2026" event, you can learn more and RSVP here.

For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected].

You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media!

Instagram: @RedWineBlueUSA

Facebook: @RedWineBlueUSA

YouTube: @RedWineBlueUSA