In this episode, Cliff Asness joins Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin for a conversation that spans the evolution of quantitative investing, lessons from market crises, and the enduring tension between risk and behavioral explanations in finance. From his formative years at the University of Chicago under Gene Fama to building AQR into a quant powerhouse, Cliff reflects candidly on theory, performance, and how markets may have become less efficient in recent years.

Key Topics:

• Tano and Michael return from sabbatical and reflect on recent academic and classroom experiences (0:00)
• Overview of Cliff's career and contributions to quant investing and academic finance (1:13)
• Cliff recounts his underachiever label, how standardized tests changed his path, and why he chose Penn's M&T program (2:54)
• How Cliff's coding work for Andy Lo inspired his academic path and led to Chicago (5:03)
• A breakdown of the 1992 and 1993 Fama-French papers, and how they reshaped asset pricing (8:45)
• Cliff discusses the theoretical divide between Fama and Thaler and his own evolution toward a behavioral perspective (13:08)
• Memories of presenting momentum to Fama, intellectual honesty, and voice-shaking dissertation defenses (17:13)
• Why Cliff chose Goldman over academia, his role in developing Goldman's quant group, and the influence of LTCM (22:00)
• Launching in August 1998 during the Russia default; early drawdowns and lessons from the tech bubble (27:50)
• How quant signals hold up, risks of crowding, and the difference between short-term and long-term capacity (34:32)
• Momentum held, but value strategies collapsed. How AQR dealt with long underperformance (43:31)
• Valuation starting points can obscure long-term performance; recent decades viewed in proper context (49:22)
• Cliff's provocative "Less Efficient Market Hypothesis" and three key drivers: indexing, interest rates, and social media (50:54)
• Is passive investing weakening price discovery? Reflections on Sharp's arithmetic and Grossman-Stiglitz (54:12)
• How echo chambers and meme stocks challenge traditional models of rational price formation (58:28)
• Why companies aren't issuing more equity despite sky-high valuations, and the fading role of smart capital allocators (1:00:46)And much more!

Thanks for Listening!

Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected].

Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!