Former Justice Secretary and Lord Chancellor David Gauke joins James Heale to talk about his review into prison sentencing. The former Tory minister was appointed by the current Labour Justice Secretary Shabana Mahmood, but says there is a clear centre-right argument for prison reform.

He talks James through his policy proposals and the political reaction to them, the thinking behind expanding chemical castration for sex offenders and why deportation is complicated when dealing with the very worst foreign criminals. Ultimately his review is designed to reduce what is currently the highest incarceration rate in Europe.

Produced by Patrick Gibbons.