Most of us shop owners tend to keep compensation pretty simple: pay ourselves what the business can afford, pay our team what feels fair, and hope that keeps everyone happy. But I’ve learned over the years that this approach can quietly hurt the very business we’re trying to grow. 

In this episode, I sit down with John Jones from Scissortail Executive Advisors to dig into how owner and executive compensation really works—and how getting strategic about it can lead to better retention, stronger tax positioning, and a more valuable business overall.

John and I talk through why it’s critical to separate your roles as owner and operator, especially when setting your own salary. We also cover how small shops—yes, even with 10 or 12 employees—can make use of tools like 401(k)s and non-qualified retirement plans. These aren't just for big corporations. There’s a ton of flexibility and strategy available here that most folks just don’t realize.

I’ve met a lot of great shop owners who take the bare minimum they need to survive and put everything else back into the business. That’s noble, but it’s not always the most efficient or rewarding way to structure things. John shares ways to keep your team happy, secure your own financial future, and still make sure the business has what it needs to grow.

If you’ve never given much thought to how you compensate yourself—or how to build real retention plans for your team—this episode will open your eyes. You’ll walk away with practical tools, smarter strategies, and maybe even a little peace of mind.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• (0:00) Cold open on non-qualified plan flexibility (humorous examples)
• (0:26) Grow your top and bottom line with CLA
• (1:34) How Mike and John first connected over foster dogs
• (3:09) What John’s firm does and who they serve
• (5:21) Splitting owner vs. executive compensation (and why it matters)
• (11:28) Intro to 401(k)s and non-qualified plans as supplemental tools
• (13:27) Deep dive into non-qualified plans: flexibility, vesting, tax savings
• (18:44) Structuring benefits for a 12-person machine shop
• (23:40) Get ready for Top Shops 2025 in Charlotte, NC
• (24:05) Tax advantages of these plans for both owner and business
• (26:43) Discretionary contributions and plan flexibility year-to-year
• (33:09) Risks of non-qualified plans in the event of business failure
• (36:56) Costs and scalability of both 401(k) and non-qualified plans
• (39:40) Other areas owners should consider for employee retention
• (42:48 Phantom stock vs. profit sharing for retention and motivation
• (47:10) Final takeaways: tax planning, recruiting, and valuing employees 
• (52:54) Head on over and listen to the Machine Shop Mastery podcast 

Resources & People Mentioned

• ERISA Guidelines

Connect with John Jones

• Scissortail Executive Advisors
• Connect on LinkedIn

Connect With Buy the Numbers

• Follow on LinkedIn
• Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn

Subscribe to Buy the Numbers

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Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK