Confronting The Line

By Anne L. Peterson

We are here to explore the world of personal development, and examine the often blurry line between transformation and exploitation. We are dedicated to finding that line, then looking, listening and ... more

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FAQs about Confronting The Line:

How many episodes does Confronting The Line have?

The podcast currently has 52 episodes available.

Confronting The Line episodes:

September 24, 2024 E12 Squirrels and other connections between Scientology and Landmark with guest Chris Shelton
Chris Shelton MSc, Scientology survivor and coercive control expert joined us as guest this week. We had fun exploring the similarities between Scientology and Landmark Worldwide, two organizations that are known for their controversial practices and being accused of cult-like behavior.
Similarities such as the cult-ish personalities around the founders, L. Ron Hubbard and Werner Erhard, and the lack of accountability of such leaders. We also talked about the tactics used like emotional manipulation, the suppression of questioning, the power of social proof and the manipulation of beliefs. PLUS the influence of other cult leaders on Landmark and Scientology is undeniable.
We compared the practices and beliefs of Landmark and Scientology. Landmark focuses on transformative learning and removing barriers to self-expression, while Scientology believes in the spiritual nature of humans and aims to remove past life trauma. Anything for a tax write off?! The goal of Landmark is to “transform the being of human being” and Scientology is to “clear” the planet. What’s the difference? Still searching.
We discovered more similarities, such as the concept of recreation where individuals are trained to fully understand and duplicate another person's communication and the control mechanisms used in communication exercises in general. Well, Werner does acknowledge L. Ron in his authorized biography.
Chris didn’t have any first hand knowledge of the supposed Scientology conspiracy to discredit Werner, beyond his being labeled a squirrel 🐿of course. He did give us some insider history of Scientology's infiltration operations into the IRS and political organizations for the purpose of influencing on a larger scale.
Finally the conversation concludes with a discussion on the importance of recognizing and educating ourselves about manipulative tactics in order to protect our autonomy and rights.
LINKS & RESOURCES
Check out Chris’s Podcast/Show Speaking of Cults
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF326xyA0QHI7Z5xAwKQDJg
Get Anne’s Book
https://a.co/d/7uoGYRs
Looking for understanding and support check out the Recovery Group w/ Rachel Bernstein https://ilumn8.life/op/lgat-recovery-group/
The purpose is to create a compassionate and supportive space where people can recover, heal, grow and reclaim their lives and autonomy.
LINKS & RESOURCES
Check out Chris’s Podcast/Show Speaking of Cults
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF326xyA0QHI7Z5xAwKQDJg
Get Anne’s Book
https://a.co/d/7uoGYRs
The Heathy Healing and Recovery Group w/ Rachel Bernstein
The purpose is to create a compassionate and supportive space where people can recover, heal, grow and reclaim their lives and autonomy. https://ilumn8.life/op/lgat-recovery-group/
MODERATION NOTE:
While healthy debate and discussion regarding the topics being discussed is encouraged, personal (ad hominem) attacks on people, places or things will be deleted.
FINALLY
Please consider supporting this channel and helping me to offer more and better content and resources such as the healing group w/ Rachel. Contributing to supports the learning and healing needs of folks waking up to and leaving high demand and cult(ish) groups.
https://ilumn8.givingfuel.com/ilumn8giving
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1h 20min
September 11, 2024 E11 Directed Sharing: Manipulating Natural Human Tendencies - Ed Gurowitz returns!
Welcome back Ed!
In this conversation with our resident transformational technologies expert Ed Gurowitz we cover various topics including cult dynamics, the power of influence, the illusion of scarcity, and the impact of directed sharing. We also touched on the creation of special groups within an organization and the role of scarcity in creating value.
The absorption of a powerful person's way of being into a group and the competition to be part of that group is covered. AND explore the concept of directed sharing and the manipulation of natural human tendencies. Overall, the conversation highlights the importance of awareness and critical thinking in navigating these dynamics.
Who is Ed?
Ed Gurowitz, Ph.D. is a psychologist who has been on the leading edge of personal and organizational transformation for over 40 years. As a management consultant and leadership development specialist, he has worked with top executives all over the world on communication, collaboration, conflict resolution, and removing the barriers that keep people stuck in “good enough,” allowing them to emerge into their full greatness as leaders and as human beings.
Regarding his human potential (aka Landmark) Ed did the est Training in 1978 and went on to be on staff in Werner Erhard's office, traveling and working directly with Werner, including on the "Project to Recreate the Training," which resulted in the creation of the Forum. He also worked at Tekniko until he left the network in 1991.
Stay tuned for Ed’s forthcoming book on personal and organizational transformation!
Ed’s current book: Inclusion, The Role of Leadership: Why We Are Separate, Why We Need to Come Together https://a.co/d/gvlPs35
RESOURCES:
Healthy Healing and Recovery with Rachel Bernstein https://ilumn8.life/op/lgat-recovery-group/
Safe Practitioners Workshop https://ilumn8.life/op/safe-practitioners-workshop/
TAKEAWAYS:
* Cult dynamics can be observed in various contexts, including organizations and societies.
* The power of influence can lead individuals to absorb the way of being of a powerful person or group.
* The illusion of scarcity can be used to create value and exclusivity.
* Directed sharing can manipulate natural human tendencies to promote certain ideas or behaviors.
* Awareness and critical thinking are essential in navigating these dynamics and avoiding manipulation.

RESOURCES:
LGAT / High-Control Recovery https://ilumn8.life/op/lgat-recovery-group/
Anne's Book https://a.co/d/7uoGYRs

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1h 26min
September 11, 2024 E10 PART2 - Exene Paloma: An Anarchist view on collective and inclusive approach to personal development.
In PART TWO of this conversation with Exene Paloma, we continue the discussion about how certain structures and hierarchies can replicate dominant power dynamics and exclude individuals based on their race, gender, or personality. We also examine the limitations of external interventions in communities and the importance of empowering individuals to develop their own solutions.
The conversation highlights the need to challenge and dismantle oppressive systems and create inclusive spaces that respect diverse perspectives and experiences. We also examine the idea of self-made success and the role of privilege in achieving it.
The need for a more collective and inclusive approach to personal development, rather than an individualistic one is highlighted. Again we emphasize the importance of questioning and critically examining the practices and beliefs within the self-help (aka personal development) industry.

RESOURCES:
https://ilumn8.life/op/lgat-recovery-group/
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1h 6min
September 11, 2024 E9 The Role of Power and Privilege in Landmark and the Personal Development Space
"Dominance hierarchies, structures that are about people having power over other people inherently are to be questioned." ~ Exene Paloma
In this conversation we question the power and privilege dynamics in the personal development space, with a focus on the Landmark Forum. Our guest, Exene Paloma, shares the experience as a former Landmark staff member and course supervisor.
The conversation explores the hierarchical structure and power dynamics within Landmark and similar organizations. It discusses the influence of the source (Werner Erhard) and how his personality and ideas shape the culture of the organization. The conversation also delves into the concept of dominance hierarchies and the belief that power structures built on people having power over others are inherently flawed. Exene expresses skepticism towards top-down culture change and emphasizes the importance of empowering individuals and building structures that promote equality.
In part of the conversation, Exene and Anne explore some of the manipulative tactics used in self-help programs, highlighting how these programs create an artificial environment to elicit emotional responses and then sell products or services. They also discuss the concept of integrity and how it is used as a tool for control and touch on the power dynamics within these programs and the pressure to conform to group norms.
They also discuss the transferability of the insights gained in these programs to real-life situations and the limitations of self-help in addressing systemic issues. Finally, they draw parallels between self-help and marketing, highlighting the focus on personal improvement and the perpetuation of feelings of inadequacy for the purpose of ongoing sales.

RESOURCES:
We are offering group therapy sessions specifically for former Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT) and organizations or High Control Group employees, program leaders, program managers, business consultants, long-time volunteers and people who have participated with them. https://ilumn8.life/op/lgat-recovery-group/

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1h 11min
September 11, 2024 E8 PT2 Dr John Hunter on Informed Consent and Empirical Research in LGATs
In part two of this conversation with Dr. John Hunter we discuss the concept of informed consent in the context of Large Group Awareness Trainings (LGATs) and explore the importance of providing participants with accurate information about the potential benefits and risks of these trainings. We also highlight the need for independent research to support the claims made by Landmark Worldwide and the similar groups that put them on.
Other topics discussed include the role of experience in creating transformation, the influence of group dynamics, and the stigma on mental health care. Overall, the discussion raises important questions about the ethical practices and transparency of LGATs.
Dr. John and Anne reiterate the importance of critically examining the claims and risks associated with LGATs and highlight the need for transparency and informed consent, as well as the potential for both positive and negative experiences within these programs..
The conversation emphasizes the importance of open dialogue and the willingness to consider different perspectives.
RESOURCES & LINKS
Check out Dr. Johns Hunters work https://johnhunterphd.com/#about-me
Dr John’s Article explaining LGATS in 1000 words or less https://thoughtleader.co.za/the-first...
Video: Speaking of Cults...Are LGATs Actually Just Cults? (Chris Shelton & Dr John) - • Speaking of Cults...Are LGATs Actuall...
The Safe Practitioner Workshop https://ilumn8.life/op/safe-practitio...
Healthy Healing LGAT Recovery Group w/ Rachel Bernstein https://ilumn8.life/op/lgat-recovery-...
...more
1h 14min
September 11, 2024 E7 Can I ever trust a group again? - Understanding Research and LGATs w/ Dr. John Hunter
Meet Dr. John Hunter who teaches undergraduate and postgraduate students in research methods and psychology. Today he shares his background and research on large group awareness trainings (LGATs). He tells us about his personal experience in a seminar where abusive tactics were used by the trainer.
In this discussion he emphasizes the importance of critically evaluating information from these groups and the challenges of researching and publishing on this topic. The conversation made us aware of the psychology of group identity and the tendency to defend and identify with a group, even when faced with conflicting information.
Dr. John highlights the euphoria, confidence, and impulsivity that participants often experience after completing a large group awareness training. He draws attention to the common elements found in many of these groups, such as specific exercises, lots of rules, and the pressure to recruit others.
The discussion raises concerns about the potential exploitation and psychological impact of LGATs, highlighting the similarities between different large group awareness training seminars and the potential risks associated with them. He shares his personal experience with bipolar disorder and how it influenced his interest in studying these seminars.
CONTENT NOTE
This video contains some discussion about mental health outcomes of both bi-polar disorder and LGATs. Including suicide rates, depression and incidents of psychosis. We invite you to be sensitive to your needs and reactions, and to pause and take your time, even speak with a trusted person if it is upsetting to you.
RESOURCES & LINKS
Check out Dr. Johns Hunters work https://johnhunterphd.com/#about-me
Dr John’s Article explaining LGATS in 1000 words or less https://thoughtleader.co.za/the-first...
Video: Large group awareness trainings, peak experiences and dopamine - • large group awareness trainings, peak...
The Safe Practitioner Workshop https://ilumn8.life/op/safe-practitio...
Healthy Healing LGAT Recovery Group w/ Rachel Bernstein https://ilumn8.life/op/lgat-recovery-...
...more
1h
September 11, 2024 E6 Our Reflections & Responses About Telling the Truth, Exposing Abuse and Confronting the Line
Mark and I took some time this weekend to discuss our experience and reactions to the recent revelations and stories that have emerged related to abuse at Landmark and the personal development world. We reflect on the impact of my book, 'Is This a Cult?', and the surprising response of the many #samehere experiences. We continue to emphasize the importance of telling the truth, exposing abuse, and creating healing spaces.
We also address the contentious discourse that has arisen in the Landmark community as a response to the many revelations being shared. We believe it is important to give space and grace to people who are speaking up, including our guests, even if it gets messy. We remind ourselves and others that anger has a role in the healing process and we recognize the need to hold boundaries while processing emotions. This requires learning how to understand and communicate our needs. Listening to learn is key to the process.
We wrap up talking about the need for transparency and accountability in organizations and the value of seeking truth and understanding.
RESOURCES & LINKS
Marks discussion on “How Did I Get Here” with Brian Nord & Erik Rojas
Titled Queer Life or Compliance to Landmark Forum... Choose with Mark C. Tafoya https://www.youtube.com/live/Duw-msio...
To see all the interviews and people talking about this subject both about Landmark and the industry. https://isthisacultbook.com/
For healing and recovery support JOIN Rachel Bernstein https://ilumn8.life/op/lgat-recovery-...
For practitioners, facilitators or coaches who wish to learn more about being a SAFE practitioner check out the Safe Practitioner Workshop. https://ilumn8.life/op/safe-practitio...
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1h 6min
September 11, 2024 E5. PART TWO - Continuation of our Conversation with Former Forum Leader Alan Cahn
In Part 2, Alan starts to realize that he cannot change the culture from within. He explains how he was de-designated as a Landmark Forum Leader, what led up to it and the good news and bad news of this turn of events. He reflects on some of his values and how they were not the same as Landmark’s and stressed his need to to live a life of contribution and the importance of healing past wounds. He also acknowledges the need for accountability and consequences in organizations to prevent abuse.
UPDATED & IMPORTANT CONTENT NOTE:
We invited a small audience to listen to the live recording of the following show/podcast, and some people reported being emotionally triggered during the conversation. You will hear some stories of physical abuse. Some of them may be triggering. When people hear about sensitive topics, there are a variety of possible reactions. All of them are valid.
An additional note related to this specific video. It contains conversation about trauma itself not using current nor trauma informed perspectives or language. Some people also found this triggering.
We invite you to be sensitive to your own reaction, and to pause and take your time, even speak with a trusted person if it is upsetting to you.
We ourselves are processing our own reactions, which we could not do in the moment. We invite everyone to give themselves grace as they confront the line for themselves.
RESOURCES:
Here is a link to the recovery group Anne mentions to support those that have worked in organizations or groups where they may have experienced hgh-control or abusive environments. https://ilumn8.life/op/lgat-recovery-...
For practitioners, facilitators or coaches who wish to learn more about being a SAFE practitioner check out the Safe Practitioner Workshop. https://ilumn8.life/op/safe-practitio...
...more
59min
September 10, 2024 E4 PART ONE - Former Forum Leader on abuse at Landmark, his 32 year journey, and his advice for the future
Today we welcome Alan Cahn who has over 40 years of experience in personal development, 30 of them with Landmark Worldwide. Alan talks about his journey before he does the est training in 1976, including his experiences with Zen Buddhism and mystical Christian groups and how he makes his way, first onto W.E.A Staff (1985), and then becoming a Landmark Forum leader (1988). Alan tells us his unique story and touches on the experiential nature of the est training and the role of Werner Erhard as a leader.
Alan discusses some of his personal and professional challenges as he grapples with the abusive culture of the times and Landmarks staff culture. He shares his motivations for staying for the “mission” even when he didn’t agree with the “means”. This episode brings us right up to Alan’s leaving Landmark. In Part TWO coming later this week Alan gets into the why his leaving and his post Landmark experience. Subscribe to be notified when we post nee content.
IMPORTANT CONTENT WARNING:
We invited a small audience to listen to the live recording of the following podcast/show, and some people reported being emotionally triggered during the conversation. You will hear some stories of abuse (36min.) Some of them may be triggering. When people hear about sensitive topics, there are a variety of possible reactions. All of them are valid.
We invite you to be sensitive to your own reaction, and to pause and take your time, even speak with a trusted person if it is upsetting to you.
We ourselves are processing our own reactions, which we could not do in the moment. We invite everyone to give themselves grace as they, Confront The Line, for themselves.
RESOURCES:
Here is a link to the recovery group Anne mentions to support those that have worked in organizations or groups where they may have experienced hgh-control or abusive environments. https://ilumn8.life/op/lgat-recovery-...
For practitioners, facilitators or coaches who wish to learn more about being a SAFE practitioner check out the Safe Practitioner Workshop. https://ilumn8.life/op/safe-practitio...
...more
59min
September 10, 2024 E1 Meet Hosts Anne L. Peterson & Mark Tafoya
In this show opener, Anne and Mark introduce themselves and discuss the purpose of their podcast, 'Confronting the Line.' They explore the concept of confronting the line between transformation and exploitation in personal development and self-help programs. Anne shares her motivation for writing her book, 'Is This a Cult?' and the response she received after its publication. They also touch on the history of Landmark Education (now Landmark Worldwide) and the impact of Werner Erhard (“the Source”), as well as the need for truth and informed consent in the self-help industry.
In this conversation, Anne and Mark discuss their experiences as volunteers and leaders in Landmark, a personal development organization. They talk about the reasons they left Landmark and the issues they encountered, including invasion of privacy, control, and abuse.
They also discuss the systemic nature of exploitation and abuse within the organization and the need for transparency and accountability. Anne and Mark emphasize the importance of individual empowerment and critical thinking when participating in personal development and wellness programs.
LINKS
Anne's Book https://isthisacultbook.com/

Mark episode on How Did I Get Here w/ Brian Nord https://www.youtube.com/live/Duw-msio9Ik?si=4rnrzKVh0ntEnUQB
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1h 2min

FAQs about Confronting The Line:

How many episodes does Confronting The Line have?

The podcast currently has 52 episodes available.