Some of the biggest product breakthroughs didn’t come from startups — they came from intrapreneurs. In this episode, we speak with Scott Jones, a career intrapreneur who has launched new lines of business at Lenovo, Hewlett Packard Enterprise, and Realeyes, a computer vision AI company serving some of the world’s most influential platforms.

Scott shares a detailed, experience-backed look at what it takes to make innovation work inside companies that weren’t built for speed. He breaks down the mindset, team dynamics, and cultural rituals that allow new bets to thrive — and provides practical guidance for founders, executives, and investors looking to bring this approach into their own organizations.

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

Inside the episode...

• How Scott went from analyst and musician to AI product leader

• A modern definition of intrapreneurship — and why it matters now

• Key personality traits and behavioral markers of strong intrapreneurs

• Why ambiguity is a feature, not a bug, in high-growth environments

• How leaders can foster a culture of experimentation (rituals, roles, and goals)

• Strategies for validating new product ideas quickly and credibly

• How to communicate innovation progress to stakeholders with different styles

• Realeyes’ identity verification tech and the future of online trust

• How personal trauma and spiritual practices influence Scott’s leadership approach

Mentioned in this episode

• Realeyes - Where Scott works as VP, Product

• Pranayama (breathwork practices) -  Intro guide from the Art of Living Foundation:

• Effortless Mastery by Kenny Werner - Official site with book info and resources:

• Linchpin by Seth Godin - Publisher page for the book:

• SHINE by EOS - Book info (note: EOS books are often sold through their coaching platform):

• Paramahamsa Yogananda - His foundational book Autobiography of a Yogi on the Self-Realization Fellowship site:

• Scott’s linkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottjeezey

• Scott’s instagram - https://www.instagram.com/scottjeezey/

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Joshua Graves, founder of Lost Horse Labs and author of We Need to Talk, joins the show to unpack what happens when product leaders ignore hard conversations — and what it takes to build an environment where teams can truly thrive. Drawing from two decades in product design, civic tech, and leadership coaching, Joshua brings practical, deeply human guidance on navigating organizational tension, protecting team trust, and avoiding the trap of control disguised as process.

From the neuroscience of conflict to the value of rituals and the art of disagreeing and committing, Joshua’s insights are rooted in experience — not just theory. Whether you're a CEO, product leader, or just someone who wants to get better at the conversations that matter, this episode offers useful ideas for designing more human teams and more honest leadership.

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

Inside the episode...

• Why conflict avoidance is costly — and how to know when it’s time to speak up

• What it really means to create psychological safety (and how to ritualize it)

• Understanding the brain’s role in conflict, emotion, and reactivity

• The “compass vs. map” approach to navigating difficult conversations

• How to mediate conflict as a leader without becoming a dictator

• Using tools like user manuals and plus-deltas to personalize collaboration

• Building rituals without becoming dogmatic or overly process-driven

• When to assume positive intent — and when that’s no longer productive

• What to do when you’re facing manipulation, gaslighting, or loss of trust

• Why checking in with yourself can be the most powerful leadership too

Mentioned in this episode

• Joshua’/s book - We Need to Talk: A Survival Guide for Tough Conversations. http://amazon.com/We-Need-Talk-Survival-Conversations/dp/1959029118/ref=sr_1_5 

• Lost Horse Labs – losthorse.design, e-mail hello at losthorse.design 

• Plus/Deltas as a feedback framework: https://blogs.vmware.com/tanzu/plus-delta-feedback/ 

• Nonviolent communication: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication 

• Joshua’s favourite maker tools - Glowforge - https://glowforge.com/ 

• Joshua’s favourite maker tools - XTool (screen printing tools) - https://www.xtool.com/ 

Joshua’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/itsjoshuagraves

Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast

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Most PMs still think velocity = impact. They're wrong. If no one on your team owns adoption, retention, or revenue—then growth isn’t anyone’s job.

Jayson Robinson joins Convergence.fm to unpack why most product teams are built to ship—but not to grow. From leading growth at Toptal and BairesDev to advising SaaS companies and launching enterprise products at M&S, Jayson has seen where traditional product orgs fall apart—and what high-agency PMs actually do differently.

We cover how to spot deadweight roles, when founders need to let go, and what happens when you hire people who are better at agile ceremonies than business outcomes.

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

• Why velocity without measurable outcomes is a red flag

• The critical differences between growth PMs and generalist PMs

• What high-agency PMs do that process-driven PMs can’t replicate

• How to interview for ownership, not just experience

• The real reason “translator” PMs are getting phased out

• What happened when HP focused on output over market alignment

• How Duolingo’s growth org became its engine of compounding retention

• Why founders who don’t let go end up being the ceiling

• Lessons from Netflix, Shopify, and Linear on org design that scales

• The HP Way by David Packard — Buy the book

• Duolingo’s Growth Strategy — Lenny Rachitsky breakdown

• Shopify Product Leadership — First Round article

• Linear’s Product Development Approach — Read on Linear’s blog

• High Agency Hiring — Michael Dearing on First Round

• Jayson’s blog post on the future of PM roles: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jaysonkrobinson_the-product-manager-role-is-speciating-activity-7315760215277121536-1LcF?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAAGxt90BvpkwcznT5WbhfSl0aK9PPNhWLy4

• Mind the product talk by ElevenLabs and build measure learn cycle 

• Jason’s Linkedin profile 

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast

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Large language models are helping developers move faster than ever. But behind the convenience of AI-generated code lies a security vulnerability: package hallucinations. In this episode, Ashok sits down with U.S. Army cybersecurity officer and PhD researcher Joe Spracklen to unpack new research on how hallucinated package names—fake libraries that don’t yet exist—can be weaponized by attackers and quietly introduced into your software supply chain.

Joe’s recent academic study reveals how large language models like ChatGPT and Code Llama are frequently recommending software packages that don’t actually exist—yet. These fake suggestions create the perfect opportunity for attackers to register malicious packages with those names, compromising developer machines and potentially entire corporate networks. Whether your team is deep into AI pair programming or just starting to experiment, this conversation surfaces key questions every tech leader should be asking before pushing AI-generated code to production.

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

Inside the episode...

• What "package hallucinations" are and why they matter

• How AI code assistants can introduce real vulnerabilities into your network

• Which models were most likely to hallucinate packages

• Why hallucinated package names are often persistent—not random

• How attackers could weaponize hallucinated names to spread malware

• What mitigation strategies were tested—and which ones failed

• Why simple retrieval-based techniques (like RAG) don’t solve the problem

• Steps security-conscious teams can take today to protect their environments

• The importance of developer awareness as more non-traditional engineers enter the field

Mentioned in this episode

• Python Package Index (PyPI)

• npm JavaScript package registry

• Snyk, Socket.dev, Phylum (dependency monitoring tools)

• Artifactory, Nexus, Verdaccio (private package registries)

• ChatGPT, Code Llama, DeepSeek (AI models tested)

Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast

Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow.

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast

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Most companies have a mission statement. But few are truly mission-driven in practice. In this episode, Jason Fraser joins Ashok to unpack what it actually means to prioritize mission over profit — and how the best organizations are able to do both. Jason reflects on the differences between performative mission language and the kind of operational decision-making that aligns tightly with purpose. He shares the concept of “mission ratios” and how teams can use them to identify where they’re constrained, where they have leverage, and how to get disproportionate outcomes from limited inputs.

Drawing on examples from Patagonia, World Central Kitchen, and a federal asylum processing team, Jason walks through the tools and frameworks that mission-first leaders can use to improve focus, clarity, and measurable impact. Whether you’re running a nonprofit, a B Corp, or just trying to do more meaningful work, this episode gives you language and direction to guide your team’s decisions. Plus, Jason shares how to spot the ratios that matter most — and what to do once you find them.

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

Inside the episode...

• What really defines a mission-driven organization

• Mission vs. permission work: how to make trade-offs without guilt

• Why purpose can actually boost profitability and team alignment

• Introducing “mission ratios”: the unit economics of social impact

• Frameworks for identifying your most limiting constraints

• How to apply the impact mapping tool to optimize outcomes

• Lessons from World Central Kitchen, Earthshot Prize, and a USCIS case study

• Tractability vs. leverage: how to prioritize what’s actually solvable

• The hidden assumptions that reduce efficiency and how to challenge them

• How organizations can operationalize ethics without compromising viability

Mentioned in this episode

• Jason and Janice’s book, Farther, Faster, Way Less Drama 

• Jason’s workshops and events: https://missionratio.com/events/

• Jason’s linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonfraser

• World Central Kitchen

• Patagonia

• CERO Bikes

• The Earthshot Prize 

• Climatebase Fellowship

• Good Strategy, Bad Strategy by Richard Rumelt

• Impact Mapping by Gojko Adzic

• Deloitte Study

• Target versus Costco 

• Value Chain 

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast

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How do you move from dabbling with AI and vibe coding to building real, production-grade software with it? In this episode, Austin Vance, CEO of Focused returns and we transition the conversation from building AI-enabled applications to fostering AI-native engineering teams. Austin shares how generative AI isn’t just a shortcut—it’s reshaping how we architect, code, and lead. We also get to hear Austin’s thoughts on the leaked ‘AI Mandate’ memo from Shopify’s CEO, Tobi Lutke. 

We cover what Austin refers to as ‘AI-driven development’, how to win over the skeptics on your teams, and why traditional patterns of software engineering might not be the best fit for LLM-driven workflows. 

Whether you're an engineer,product leader, or startup founder, this episode will give you a practical lens on what AI-native software development actually requires—and how to foster adoption on your teams quickly and safely to get the benefits of using AI in product delivery.

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

Inside the episode...

• Why Shopify’s leaked AI memo was a "permission slip" for your own team

• The three personas in AI adoption: advocates, skeptics, and holdouts

• How AI-driven development (AIDD) differs from “AI-assisted” workflows

• Tools and practices Focused uses to ship faster and cheaper with AI

• Pair programming vs. pairing with an LLM: similarities and mindset shifts

• How teams are learning to prompt effectively—without prompt engineering training

• Vibe coding vs. integrating with entrenched systems: what's actually feasible

• Scaling engineering culture around non-determinism and experimentation

• Practical tips for onboarding dev teams to tools like Cursor, Windsurf, and Vercel AI SDK Using LLMs for deep codebase exploration, not just code generation

Mentioned in this episode

• Cursor

• Windsurf

• LangChain

• Claude

• GPT-4 / ChatGPT

• V0.dev

• GitHub Copilot

• Focused (focused.io)

• Shopify internal AI memo

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast

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What does it actually take to build agentic AI applications that hold up in the real world? In this episode, Ashok sits down with Austin, founder of Focused, to share field stories and hard-won lessons from building AI systems that go beyond flashy demos. From legal assistants to government transparency tools, Austin breaks down the concrete criteria for identifying where AI makes sense — and where it doesn’t.

They unpack how to find the right starting point for your first agentic app, why integration with legacy systems is the real hurdle, and the engineering must-haves that keep AI behavior safe and reliable. You’ll hear practical guidance on designing eval frameworks, using abstraction layers like LangChain, and how observability can shape your development roadmap just like in traditional software. Whether you’re a product leader or a CTO, this conversation will help you distinguish hype from real opportunity in AI.

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

Inside the episode...

• A practical checklist for identifying your first AI-powered app

• The hidden cost of "AI for AI’s sake" and where traditional software is better

• Why repetitive knowledge work is prime territory for automation

• How Focused helped Hamlet build an AI for parsing government meeting data

• Where read-only data access gives you a safe starting point

• Why integration is often more complex than the AI itself

• The importance of eval frameworks and test-driven LLM development

• How to use observability to continuously improve AI agent behavior

• Speed vs. believability: surprising lessons from Groq-powered inference

• Using multiple models in one system and LLMs to QA each other

Mentioned in this episode

• Hamlet (government transparency startup) - https://www.myhamlet.com/?convergence 

• LangChain - https://www.langchain.com/?convergence 

• Groq - https://groq.com/?convergence 

• Claude (Anthropic) - https://claud.ai/?convergence 

• Dspy Prompting framework - https://dspy.ai/?convergence 

• Shopify AI memo (referenced) - https://convergence.fm/episode/shopifys-leaked-ai-mandate-explained-6-takeaways-for-your-product-team?convergence

• Amazon Bedrock / SageMaker - https://aws.amazon.com/bedrock/?convergence

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast

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What do candy bars, couches, and car dealerships have in common? For Andrew Glaser, they’re all opportunities to understand how real people make decisions — and why most product teams get those decisions wrong.  

In this episode, Andrew shares his journey from hedge fund manager to product strategist, and now founder of Swizzle, an AI product built around Jobs to Be Done (JTBD) thinking. He opens up about how false positives, feature bloat, and over-reliance on personas lead teams down the wrong path — and what it really takes to make something customers will hire.

We get into the guts of JTBD, from how to know when you’ve hit causality in an interview, to why understanding tradeoffs is more useful than knowing demographics. Andrew shares practical frameworks and surprising stories — including what Snickers can teach you about product-market fit, why most sofas don’t sell, and how Intercom 15x’ed revenue just by reframing how they talked about their product. 

Whether you’re building software or selling furniture, this conversation will challenge how you think about customer insight — and give you tools to sharpen your product bets.

Inside the episode…

• Why false positives in customer research can wreck a strategy

• How JTBD helped turn around a billion-dollar furniture retailer

• The 4 real jobs behind buying a sofa 

• Snickers vs. Milky Way: A JTBD breakdown of context and tradeoffs

• What most people get wrong about customer interviews

• Why personas don’t drive decisions — and what actually does

• How Intercom used JTBD to grow from $5M to $75M

• Using AI to support high-consideration decisions

• How to know what your product is allowed to suck at

• Why survey data without context leads to bad bets

Mentioned in this episode

• Andrew’s Startup Swizzl -  https://swizzl.ai/

• Andrew’s cofounder Bob Moesta - https://therewiredgroup.com/about/bob-moesta/

• Clay Christensen’s HBR article: “Know Your Customers’ Jobs to Be Done” - https://hbr.org/2016/09/know-your-customers-jobs-to-be-done

• “Demand-Side Sales” by Bob Moesta - https://www.amazon.com/dp/1544509987/?bestFormat=true&k=demand%20side%20sales%20101&ref_=nb_sb_ss_w_scx-ent-pd-bk-d_de_k0_1_12&crid=8C2BLR9H1HF6&sprefix=demand%20side%20

• “Competing Against Luck” by Clayton Christensen - https://www.amazon.com/Clayton-Christensen-Competing-Against-%E3%80%902018%E3%80%91/dp/B07KPWQQY3/ref=sr_1_2

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast

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A frustrated CEO, a legacy system no one liked, and a looming contract deadline — this episode unpacks the story of how one team broke out of vendor-driven inertia and took back control of their tech strategy. What started as confusion and friction turned into clarity and confidence, all through the power of intentional facilitation and a tightly structured two-day workshop.

You’ll hear how a group of cross-functional stakeholders aligned on priorities, identified risky assumptions, and rapidly shaped a new path forward — including a validated RFP and scoring rubric — in just 16 hours. This episode is packed with practical tips for anyone facing a big, high-stakes decision with too many options and too little time.

Inside the episode...

• A CEO's challenge with legacy tech and vendor pressure

• How a two-day workshop turned chaos into clarity

• The role of facilitation in accelerating strategic alignment

• Stack ranking, 2x2 matrices, and other prioritization techniques

• Why solo work before group discussion makes a huge difference

• Designing better user stories from the ground up

• Using ChatGPT to draft faster, better RFPs and rubrics

• How to spot and de-risk your most dangerous assumptions

• Tactical facilitation tips for running your own workshop

• The impact of intentional structure, breaks, and focus

Mentioned in this episode

• ChatGPT

• RFP (Request for Proposal) templates and scoring rubrics

• Integral’s Plus/Delta/Learn framework

• Facilitation techniques like 2x2 matrices, stack ranking, dot voting

• Data integration planning

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast

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When Shopify CEO Tobi Lütke issued an internal memo calling AI a “baseline skill,” it sent rippiles across the industry. In this solo episode, we break down what the AI mandate actually says, why it’s happening now, and how teams can apply the same principles to drive smarter, faster product development. Whether you're skeptical or inspired by the move, there’s plenty to unpack about leadership, culture, and what it really takes to scale AI adoption.

You’ll hear six specific actions from the memo that are already shaping how Shopify operates—from prototyping to peer reviews—and tactical ideas for applying each one inside your own organization. With references to historical moments from Apple and Amazon, this episode puts the memo in broader context and makes the case for why now might be the time to stop experimenting with AI and start committing.

Inside the episode...

• Why Shopify’s CEO believes AI is now a mandatory skill

• How the company is embedding AI into its prototyping phase

• What it means to include AI usage in performance reviews

• Tactics for encouraging peer learning and internal sharing

• A case for self-directed experimentation with structured demos

• How to get your team building value with AI—without waiting on infosec

• The role of leadership in modeling AI adoption

• Historical parallels from Amazon and Apple

• Practical ways to explore AI before requesting new headcount

• A reminder that AI isn’t just for technical folks

Mentioned in this episode

• Shopify AI memo by CEO Tobi Lütke: https://x.com/tobi/status/1909231499448401946

• Nike’s internal AI design tools: https://about.nike.com/en/stories/nike-design-athlete-imagined-revolution

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast

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