Convo By Design®

Part One – Pitch to Published: Best Practices and Strategies to Get Your Projects Published

Learn what the pros know about getting projects published and how professional photography, narrative creation and knowing your audience can set you apart. Learn how can brand partnerships help get your designs promotion and exposure to potential new clients as well as new branding and revenue generating opportunities.

Featuring: Vanessa DeLeon – CEO & Principal Designer | Vanessa DeLeon Associates, Kathryn Given – Style Director | LUXE Interiors + Design and Amy Chernoff – VP of Marketing | AJ Madison

This is a comprehensive conversation for design and publicity professions that details and outlines ways to get designers projects into the public media. Topics include;

In a bygone time, we had celebrated architecture critics, historians and thought leaders like; Ada Louise Huxtable, Lewis Mumford, Jane Jacobs and Vincent Scully. These were gifted thought leaders with a willingness to share their views, good or bad, but never indifferent. They and others influenced the manner in which we looked critically at the shape and purpose of the spaces where we live work and play. Arch Daily wrote a piece in 2012 called The Architect Critic is Dead (just not for the reason you think). Is it. Is it, really?

I don’t think the architect critic is dead, it has changed. It’s like Syndrome’s quote from The Incredibles. That when everyone has superpowers, no-one will be a superhero. It’s this dilution of meaning through social media where everyone has an opinion and no hesitation about sharing it. Very little self-awareness and a platform, then everyone is a critic but without the critical thinking or communication skills to articulate their ideas effectively. Enda Donagher and I chop this idea up a Biot and he shares his experience in the business over the past 30-years plus. Enda and I talk about the business and his work. 

Designer Resources

Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise.

ThermaSol – Redefining the modern shower experience. Without steam, it’s just a bathroom.

Design Hardware – A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!

 – Where service meets excellence

TimberTech – Real wood beauty without the upkeep

Donagher’s firm addresses the architecture and interior design and his work is nuanced through a personalized approach and sensibly modern in look and feel. The ideas regarding the architect critic is relevant for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the opportunity to deconstruct the ideas that go into creating amazing work. If the work can be deconstructed, it provided a forum for critical thought to better our architecture and design. If we can apply critical thought, share ways to improve, then Syndrome was wrong. Everyone truly can be a super because everyones work is better and the level of expectation is raised. I enjoyed this conversation and I hope you do too. You’ll hear all about it, right after this.

Thank you, Enda. Loved our chat. Thank you to my incredible partner sponsors, ThermaSol, TimberTech, Pacific Sales, and Design Hardware. Amazing companies and great friends to the trade so please give them an opportunity for your next project. And, thank you for listening, subscribing the show and sharing with your colleagues. If not already subscribing, please consider that so you receive every new episode automatically to your podcast feed. Until next week, thank you for sharing this time together, until the next episode, be well, stay focused and now that it has arrived in earnest, try to rise above the chaos. – CXD

Californians have perfected outdoor living, largely due to the favorable climate. As weather patterns change, the design industry has adapted with sustainable materials, inventive building practices and creative use of space including outdoor kitchens, theaters, plunge pools, functional landscapes, and unique approaches to sport courts.  From pickleball to a pickle martini, design meets entertainment with the new innovations in outdoor design.

All of these programs took place in the WestEdge Theater presented by Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home. The stage was designed by Julie Beuerlein of JKB Home Design. This program was sponsored by TimberTech. A fantastic partner/ sponsor of Convo By Design.

As a busy professional designer, you know how important it is to find the right partnerships. Partnerships that allow you to specify the right products for every project. Professionals like you just don’t have time to waste. Let me tell you about one of my partnerships. Pacific Sales is here to serve you with expert, knowledgeable and non-commissioned professionals to help you specify the right product for all your projects. Non-commissioned. That means their only incentive is your satisfaction. Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home, a Best Buy Company has just that with over 60 years of service in Southern California. Pacific Sales is your destination for exploration, advice and inspiration. And here’s the cherry on top, access to exclusive Builder Trade Incentives from top brands like Monogram. Visit a Pacific Sales Showroom today to learn how you can unlock additional savings and benefits. Don’t miss out on the opportunity to work with the best of the best. Visit Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home today and elevate your projects to new heights!

At the highest level of design, the absolute best specifying designers, architects and landscape designers are all highly focused on the technology and performance of products and materials today. You have to because the products you specify for your projects have to perform and they have to last. That is one of the reasons why I am so proud to be working with TimberTech. Their focus on the technical renaissance of synthetic decking is literally changing the conversation about innovation and performance. It pulls focus on three priorities homeowners have and expect from the products their designers and architects specify for their luxury projects; 1. Aesthetics must match the overall design and fit visually. 2. Durability and maintenance. I’ve told you my board-flipping stories about my own wood decks. Clients not only want beauty, but they want ease of use and they want it to last for decades. 3. Sustainably made. Clients are more conscious of the environment and they want the same of their materials. TimberTech hits each one of these elements with a product that not only meets expectations, they exceed them. TimberTech makes a synthetic decking that looks just like wood, color and embossed wood grain for a natural appearance. Their composite decking is technologically superior as it has been created to last for decades, and it is manufactured with up to 85% recycled material. Their Advanced PVC Vintage and Landmark Collections have a Class A Flame Spread Rating making these products an amazing choice for wildfire prone areas, which unfortunately continues to grow on a risk-map. Check the show notes for more information about this and to find the nearest showroom or lumberyard. You can also check them out directly TimberTech.com.

Moderated by: Josh Cooperman, Convo By Design

Featuring: John Feldman | Ecocentrix Landscape Architecture, Sam Toole | AZEK Co. Erik Peterson | PHX Architecture, Scott Specht | Specht Novak, Dustin Moore | Strata Landscape Architecture

Words matter. They are important not just for the sake of clear communications but to showcase the specific skillset one has in an effort to attract a suitable client. Suitability. If you are a regular listener to Convo By Design you know what I am talking about. If not, first, hopefully you will be a regular listener, second, the idea of suitability in all endeavors is more important now than ever before.  Suitability means vibing and open to new ideas through a mutual trust. A mutual trust allows someone to communicate with another, without having to masque every idea under the veil of “correctness”, in whatever form that may take. 

Designer Resources

Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise.

ThermaSol – Redefining the modern shower experience. Without steam, it’s just a bathroom.

Design Hardware – A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!

 – Where service meets excellence

TimberTech – Real wood beauty without the upkeep

No, we are not going to be talking about politics or anything that might make anyone uncomfortable. Today, you are going to hear my conversation with Paulina Hospod with Aha!Interiors about design vs. renovation and subtle details. Sometimes, subtle details make all the difference between the overused, overplayed looks you can find while doomscrolling on the socials. Design should make us happy, and were going to explore that idea with Paulina, right after this.

Thank you, Paulina. Loved our chat. Thank you to my incredible partner sponsors, ThermaSol, TimberTech, Pacific Sales, and Design Hardware. Amazing companies and great friends to the trade so please give them an opportunity for your next project. And, thank you for listening, subscribing the show and sharing with your colleagues. If not already subscribing, please consider that so you receive every new episode automatically to your podcast feed. Until next week, thank you for sharing this time together, until the next episode, be well, stay focused and now that it has arrived in earnest, try to rise above the chaos. – CXD

For the past 12 years, it has been a mission to bring you voices and stories of talent in design, architecture and the arts. There have been so many twists and turns over these past 12 years and many of you have been with me since the early days of the show. A few ideas that often come back to me when presenting these conversations. Two major themes are authenticity and suitability. Two words that you don’t hear often. The first being authenticity in design and the other, which you never hear, except here is suitability. Were going to drill down on both this week.

Today on the show, you are going to hear from Bailey Todd of White Cliff Studio. Bailey and her Midwest minded, Illinois based firm deals in authenticity in all her projects and we will dig in a bit. It’s the suitability idea that I have been focused on lately. For years, I have been non-plussed by the trades, magazines and social media prognosticators alike and this is the perfect way to draw the correlation between the influencer and the influential. The influencer will tell you just how great they are and because they know, here are the things with which you should surround yourself. Influentials on the other hand, this is experienced based knowledge shared with you by people who know because they have experience. I really enjoyed my conversation with Bailey and I think yo will too. She knows her industry, she understands her business and she is willing to chop it up and share. Love that. And, it’s coming up, right after this.

Thank you to my incredible partner sponsors, ThermaSol, TimberTech, Pacific Sales, Monogram and Design Hardware. Amazing companies and great friends to the trade so please give them an opportunity for your next project. And, thank you for listening, subscribing the show and sharing with your colleagues. If not already subscribing, please consider that so you receive every new episode automatically to your podcast feed. Until next week, thank you for sharing this time together, until the next episode, be well, stay focused and now that it has arrived in earnest, try to rise above the chaos. – CXD

What makes an architectural work worth saving from the bulldozer? The architect? The style? The age? A famous past resident? How are preservation decisions made when historical considerations are in conflict with the rights of the current owner? What is the responsibility of the city and what municipal rules/regulations help address such discussions? Join this conversation with industry insiders as we explore preservation and progress.

All of these programs took place in the WestEdge Theater presented by Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home. The stage was designed by Julie Beuerlein of JKB Home Design.

As a busy professional designer, you know how important it is to find the right partnerships. Partnerships that allow you to specify the right products for every project. Professionals like you just don’t have time to waste. Let me tell you about one of my partnerships. Pacific Sales is here to serve you with expert, knowledgeable and non-commissioned professionals to help you specify the right product for all your projects. Non-commissioned. That means their only incentive is your satisfaction. Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home, a Best Buy Company has just that with over 60 years of service in Southern California. Pacific Sales is your destination for exploration, advice and inspiration. And here’s the cherry on top, access to exclusive Builder Trade Incentives from top brands like Monogram. Visit a Pacific Sales Showroom today to learn how you can unlock additional savings and benefits. Don’t miss out on the opportunity to work with the best of the best. Visit Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home today and elevate your projects to new heights!

Moderated by: Josh Cooperman | Convo By Design 

Featuring: Jaime Rummerfield | Jaime Rummerfield Interior Design, Chris Goddard | Goddard Design Group, Anthony Laney | Laney LA, Paul McClean | McClean Design, William Hefner | Studio William Hefner

We often talk about luxury, the idea of luxury has so many different connotations, ideas and meaning. If I asked you to describe luxury in interiors design, what would you say?

Designer Resources

Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise.

Monogram – It’s the details that define Monogram

ThermaSol – Redefining the modern shower experience. Without steam, it’s just a bathroom.

Design Hardware – A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!

 – Where service meets excellence

TimberTech – Real wood beauty without the upkeep

If I asked 10 designers what the word luxury meant, I am quite sure that I would get 10 different definitions. And you know what, that is exactly how it should be. I believe that luxury is more of a state of mind than a place or thing. Socrates had something to say about luxury. “He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” But he also said, “The only true wisdom is in knowing that you know nothing.” And, things didn’t end well for Socrates. But as a philosopher, one of the best. I think there are people who are very happy with the ultra-luxurious lives they live and love the wonderful and expensive things with which they surround themselves. And I also think there are people who would tell you that the feeling of luxury is comes when they are immersed in an environment that is conducive with the way it makes them happy, or content. Isn’t that what home is supposed to do?

Today, you are going to hear from Brittany Farinas from House of 1. We are going to be discussing luxury, Miami, Florida and other places where you can find her work. We will be discussing the work itself and I invite you to follow along. Checking the show notes, you will find a link to her work. So let’s catch up with Brittany, right after this.

Thank you to my incredible partner sponsors, ThermaSol, TimberTech, Pacific Sales, Monogram and Design Hardware. Amazing companies and great friends to the trade so please give them an opportunity for your next project. And, thank you for listening, subscribing the show and sharing with your colleagues. If not already subscribing, please consider that so you receive every new episode automatically to your podcast feed. Until next week, thank you for sharing this time together, until the next episode, be well, stay focused and now that it has arrived in earnest, try to rise above the chaos. – CXD

The recent wildfires have shaken Angelenos to their core and rightly so. I imagine it is not dissimilar from those who have experienced fires in Hawaii, other parts of California or elsewhere. Or those who suffered through hurricanes, floods, wind events or any other major natural disaster. I think this was different.

I’ve shared this story with you but for the sake of those new to the show, I’ll share it again to make a point. That point is that while wildfires in Southern California are not new, nor are earthquakes, floods, or civil unrest. The wildfire is an emerging threat that has taken decades to reach this point but has now reached year round catastrophic status. After spending a week plus watching this unfold from half the country away from Los Angeles, I find myself asking a question that probably isn’t really that original. Why is this happening over and over with very little changed. Fires in Southern California. Hurricanes in Texas and Florida. Tornados in the midwest. Flooding in the mid Atlantic and southern U.S., Because that is the natural way of things in these parts of the country. In Southern California, the Santa Ana winds are nothing new. The manner in which they spread embers is not new.  Droughts in this area are new. Much of this area is a dessert. Always has been. Earthquakes have ALWAYS been a part of the region. The question that I see so many asking is, “why does this keep happening?” For the reasons listed above. And, probably the most important reason, greed and an overwhelming urge by public officials to build more, grow faster… A few statements we should probably retire include, “we’re going to build back better” and “our thoughts and prayers are with the victims.” I believe that everyone would be better off if those who know nothing about a subject would be quiet about it. 

It was 1983, my family was living in the far Southeast corner of Chatsworth in the San Fernando Valley. As far back as you could get without being in the mountains that separated the San Fernando Valley from Simi Valley. We raised horses, Arabians. My sister showed them and I cleaned up after them. It was a crappy deal and the reason I still don’t like horses. It was a Saturday, just came back from a Pop Warner football game. By the time we smelled smoke, it was too late. I had on a pair of board shorts and cowboy boots when I made it down to the barn. Hopped on one horse, had another in tow, my sister had the same and by the time we made it to the gate, the ridge behind our house was on fire. 

My mom drove the f-350 with a four horse trailer to get the more skittish horses out and my dad stayed back to do what he could to save the structures. I rode that horse for 23 hours straight. When it was safe to return, the fire burned right up to the door. But no further. My Dad had several stories from that day, it included the car full of guys that drove up to the driveway and told him they were the owners, there to pick up their belongings. The way my dad told the story, they got out of the car, four of them and started to walk up on him. He drew his .38, informed them that ‘it was his home and he and his 6 friends we going to keep it safe.’ At which time the left.

Later that year, my father removed brush around the perimeter of the house and installed rain birds on the roof of the house and the barn. This was my first experience with anything like that. Sure, earthquakes, I have always be accustomed to those, but fires, floods, that’s different.

We now find ourselves in a state of constant emergency across California and beyond. Fires are no longer seasonal in California, nor are floods. Nor do they happen in places where they have in the past. Natural disasters are showing in the form of fires, floods, cyclones, hurricane, tornado, derecho, like the one I told you about that hit us here in Tulsa in 2023. 

I think most people have mistakenly placed their faith and hope in leaders and politicians to pass legislation and craft an organized response to natural disasters. In California, if you haven’t heard about this yet, you will. Check the show notes for a link showing Mayor Karen Bass getting peppered by a reporter about being out of the country as the fires ravaged Pacific Palisades and surrounding areas as well as cutting 17 million from the annual LA Fire Department budget. The water tanks in the Palisades were reportedly not full and it is really hard to understand how this can happen in a place like Southern California where fires are a regular occurrence.

My point is this. If you put your faith in the fire department to put out a wildfire, they can’t. If you put your faith in the police to prevent crime from impacting your life and those you love, they won’t. I believe in, and appreciate the work of our firefighters and police, I do, full stop. Fire and police are responsive not proactive. They can only react after there is something to react to. And, they are completely at the will of politicians for funding and it’s never enough. Compound this with the insurance companies refusing to write policies in areas that are prone to extreme weather events. Which is different now than it was even 5 years ago. I predict that this insurability trend will not only continue, but accelerate. In line with the acceleration of extreme weather events. I also think this is the next iteration of the residential and commercial architecture and design renaissance that began during the pandemic. Things are changing.

If you want to look to someone for help, to save you and your treasures. To fortify your personal environment. To make you as safe as possible using every proactive tool in their arsenal, someone to future proof your home, look to the designers, architects, landscape architects. Architects evaluate topography, surroundings and elevations. They can predict best paths for water to move away from the structure in cases of flooding, they specify the right materials to best defend against fire, they make structures fortresses against those who might try to break in. Look to landscape architects who will plant the right materials for the present and the future be it drought tolerance or fire resistance. They too can help design exteriors for a safer and a more impenetrable environment. Look to designers to craft spaces that allow for internal safety and comfort. Materials that are less likely to burn and more likely to protect your investment. Check the show notes for a link to an eye opening report from my friends and partner sponsors of the show, TimberTech. It features flame spread and ignition resistance information.

I believe the days of blanket trust in our public officials to effectively protect and serve are over. We should wish those we vote into office the best. Pay our taxes and expect them to do what’s right for the entire community. If I sound jaded, I’m not. I’m optimistic because I know what exceptional designers and architects can do. There are some exceptional products out there that speak directly to issues like this. But I also believe that the next level of luxury, that aspirational state that is hard to define but recognized when seen is the feeling of safety and security. I’m really saddened to see my hometown burned, flooded and looted. Protections, safety and security are an issue of self determination. It’s up to each of us, individually to find the level of protection that makes us feel secure. If that is what you’re looking for, look to a designer or architect.

Let’s understand the economics of this. Perhaps city leaders and elected officials want their names on plaques and “credit” for all their good deeds. Or, maybe they want immortality that comes from building big things. There is probably a combination of things. But civic leaders direct city staffs and direct policy that in many cases includes density ratios, zoning and building policy. I was a commissioner for the city of Manhattan Beach for 6 years. The library commission was responsible for overseeing the Manhattan Beach library branch of the County of Los Angeles. During my 6-year stint, we went from a dilapidated, outmoded branch to the completion of a brand new, modern structure that served the people of Manhattan Beach. I saw first hand the inner workings of a city government that wanted big, beautiful things. What municipality doesn’t. I also witnessed city council members fight the budgetary demands up and until the project was completed and then the elbowed each other and everyone else out of the pictures memorializing the opening of the new library.

This is the Build Back Better paradox. You’re not building back better, but it sounds good. Makes a tight headline. It’s certainly clickable. The idea of building back with the same if not greater density is equal to believing you can beat Mother Nature. You can’t. Believing we are going to become a safer society, we won’t. I was on a ride here in Oklahoma last year, with a friend who was raised here. We passed a large plot of land, it had to be at least 15 acres that I could see. A small neighborhood, with dozens and dozens of raised foundations and nothing more. They clearly had been there for a while. I asked what the story was and he explained to me that they built this particular neighborhood back multiple times after tornados repeatedly tore the area apart. They kept building and tornados kept coming. Sound familiar? But they finally stopped building. As will those in Southern California, at some point in the future. Near or far, who is to say?

Don’t build back better. Build back smarter. You cannot change the climate back, this is not something that will happen in our lifetime. We can only adapt to the changing environment and those who can make this transition successfully are the designers, architects, landscape architects, engineers, futurists and visionaries. No amount of tax revenue in the hands of elected officials will make it happen. 

To those who have lost everything, I’m so sorry. To those in office who continue to allow this to happen. Shame on you, you should be voted out of office in favor of creative people with real, quantifiable solutions. And I hope that happens during the next cycle.

By the time you hear this episode, you will have been inundated with stories and reports of lack of leadership, civic mismanagement, relentless self promotion, politicization of the situation specifically by a out-of-state and feckless politicians who have no understanding of the situation but will still call for holding of emergency funding and the like. What you most likely won’t hear are practical solutions. Good, bad, unfeasible. Doesn’t really matter because what’s missing right now are ideas. Because this is the time of year where most in the media are asking design and architecture talent what the big design trends of 2025 are going to be. It’s absolutely asinine and if you think about it, it’s completely pointless. So here are some of my ideas for rebuilding smarter. These are concepts that I have seen in practice and learned through the conversations you hear on Convo By Design. These are being thrown out as thought starters in the hope that as we move forward, we can build back smarter. Not better, not faster, smarter.

I am so sorry everyone that has been affected by this tragedy. I hope the recovery is seamless and easy. I hope this never happens again. Let’s be thoughtful in the way we build back by looking to the design professionals first, making our elected leaders earn their jobs by thinking of their constituents first, respecting the true value of fire fighters and law enforcement by looking inward to protect our homes smartly. Let’s return to an era of innovation through new materials and design experience. If we can eliminate the waste, greed and mismanagement, this presents an exceptional opportunity to not only regain former glory, but establish the new paradigm for what a well design, well run fully functional city looks like. If we can do that, were in a good place and who doesn’t want that. -CXD

I’m Josh Cooperman and this is a special edition of Convo By Design featuring all of the programming from the 2024 edition of the WestEdge Design Fair. We call these entries WestEdge Wednesday, a programming concept that will allow those of you who either didn’t make it to the show this year or, those who made it and are taking me up on my promise to share It with them again on Convo By Design.

All of these programs were shared in the WestEdge Theater presented by Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home, a Best Buy company. On a stage designed by Julie Beuerlein of JKB Home Design. An amazing space that served as the backdrop for our conversations. Over the next 10 weeks, you are going to hear talks, panels and conversations from the show, so I wanted to open this up with a teaser, a sample of some of these conversations like this one.

As a busy professional designer, you know how important it is to find the right partnerships. Partnerships that allow you to specify the right products for every project. Professionals like you just don’t have time to waste. Let me tell you about one of my partnerships. Pacific Sales is here to serve you with expert, knowledgeable and non-commissioned professionals to help you specify the right product for all your projects. Non-commissioned. That means their only incentive is your satisfaction. Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home, a Best Buy Company has just that with over 60 years of service in Southern California. Pacific Sales is your destination for exploration, advice and inspiration. And here’s the cherry on top, access to exclusive Builder Trade Incentives from top brands like Monogram. Visit a Pacific Sales Showroom today to learn how you can unlock additional savings and benefits. Don’t miss out on the opportunity to work with the best of the best. Visit Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home today and elevate your projects to new heights!

The following panel discussion hosted by Sherwin-Williams, where they explore color and its many applications, from evoking emotion and enhances spaces, to creating balance that dramatic wow factor! Sherwin-Williams shares insight from their recently announced 2025 Color Capsule Collection, featuring not just one but nine hues as part of its color trend forecast.  A panel of industry pros share practical insights on how to best incorporate these colors (and others), from bold statements to subtle accents. Whether you’re a design enthusiast or a professional, this conversation will equip you with the knowledge to stay ahead of the color curve and enhance your color potential!

Moderated by: Ashlynn Bourque, Sherwin-Williams and Ro Almira, Sherwin-Williams

The expectations many designers have don’t necessarily result once their careers begin. Often times, designers find their way into the business by starting in another field. And that makes for an interesting journey. I remember being in college and thinking about all of the things I wanted to do once I started my career. If you would have asked me during my time at Washington State University what I was going to be doing in 2025, this would not have been anywhere in the conversation. But I really cannot imagine myself doing anything else. And I’ve been doing this since 2013. Prior to that, I had a first career in radio and broadcast media. Funny how life works, isn’t it. 

Designer Resources

Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise.

Monogram – It’s the details that define Monogram

ThermaSol – Redefining the modern shower experience. Without steam, it’s just a bathroom.

Design Hardware – A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!

 – Where service meets excellence

TimberTech – Real wood beauty without the upkeep

I have a unique process of writing and prepping for the conversations you hear on the show. I have the types of conversations with creatives that I want to have with them. Meaning, I find your in discovering what makes designers, artists, makers, architects and creatives work. What drives them to do what they do and what inspires them to reach the high levels they have achieved. Many of the conversations you hear on the show start with, “so, what are we talking about today” or you simply hear my response to that question in a cold open. I don’t edit that out, nor do I edit the chats we have because I want you to hear the stream of consciousness. What you don’t know is the amount of prep I do for each conversation. As a matter of fact, the guests you hear don’t see that either. I decided to model this show on the conversations that I have at trade events. The individual interactions that take place that make the trade events so truly special. You cannot recreate the vibe, I know that. But, I want you to feel like you are in Vegas, LA or Paris at KBIS, WestEdge or Maison y Objet, with a cocktail in your hand and listening in on a conversation between two peers and know that what you are about to hear is going to enrich you in some special way. Perhaps its hearing how someone else built their practice. Maybe it’s what discovery led them to design the way they do or even how their previous career led them to where they are today. To inspire you to perhaps pivot, reorganize your firm or employ a new technique. Because that’s fun. It’s inspiring. It’s motivating. And who couldn’t use a little more of that. Well, I hope you can because that’s what your getting today as you listen in on my chat with New Jersey designer, Allison Handler of Allison Handler Design.

Thank you Allison, loved our chat and appreciate the time.

Thank you to my incredible partner sponsors, ThermaSol, TimberTech, Pacific Sales, Monogram and Design Hardware. Amazing companies and great friends to the trade so please give them an opportunity for your next project. And, thank you for listening, subscribing the show and sharing with your colleagues. If not already subscribing, please consider that so you receive every new episode automatically to your podcast feed. Until next week, thank you for sharing this time together, until the next episode, be well, stay focused and now that it has arrived in earnest, try to rise above the chaos. – CXD