Counsel Cast

Communication skills for lawyers aren't soft skills. They're the job. Every client meeting, every hard update, every tough conversation depends on whether the other person actually hears you. If you've ever caught yourself in the middle of a call thinking "wait, what just happened?", you're not alone. And here's the good news: conversation is a skill, and nobody is born knowing how to do it.

In this episode of Counsel Cast Chambers, the best of Counsel Cast reexamined, Karin Conroy, your marketing co-counsel and founder of Conroy Creative Counsel, revisits her conversation with Celeste Headlee, a 20-year public radio veteran who co-hosted The Takeaway, anchored shows for NPR, and wrote We Need to Talk. Her TEDx talk on having better conversations has been viewed more than 34 million times. You'll hear how to deliver hard news to a panicking client without setting off their fight or flight response, why guiding clients with questions works better than telling them what to do, what to do when your mind drifts mid-conversation, and why saying "I don't know" makes people trust you more. This conversation first aired in October 2022, and the phone has only gotten harder to ignore since then. But Celeste's rule still holds in 2026: if you really want to listen, get every screen out of your peripheral vision.

Celeste gives listeners actionable tips on:

• 00:00 Why conversations between smart people go sideways
• 00:21 Meet Celeste Headlee, former NPR host
• 01:25 Why clients hate unsolicited advice
• 02:28 How to deliver hard news to a panicking client
• 03:04 Guiding clients with questions instead of advice
• 05:34 Why communication is a lawyer's most important skill
• 07:07 Why native English speakers are the worst communicators
• 07:39 "Why didn't you tell me that?" and the listening gap
• 08:39 Why you can't listen and plan your reply at the same time
• 09:16 How to become a better listener
• 11:22 What to do when your mind drifts mid-conversation
• 14:12 Why saying "I don't know" builds trust
• 15:09 The phone on the table study
• 17:19 Book recommendation: Mindwise by Nicholas Epley

Connect with Celeste here:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/celesteheadlee/
• https://celesteheadlee.com

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• Karin on Twitter
• Karin on LinkedIn
• Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
• https://conroycreativecounsel.com

YouTube for AI search is how your law firm gets named when a potential client asks ChatGPT, Claude, or Perplexity who to hire. YouTube is, on average, the number one source AI tools cite, because every video is transcribed and AI treats it as third-party proof, not content you wrote about yourself. So when someone asks who to call for a partnership dispute and three other firms come back, the answer was built from videos and pages AI trusts more than yours.

In this episode of Counsel Cast, Karin Conroy, legal marketing consultant, founder of Conroy Creative Counsel, and Marketing Co-Counsel® to law firms, sits down with MaryAnn Bautista, co-founder of TurboRank, where she pairs YouTube content strategy with off-page authority. MaryAnn explains why AI trusts content that isn’t yours, how to build a 90-day content calendar from the questions clients ask before they sign, and the three pillars that build trust: founder stories, education, and social proof. You’ll hear why a setup under $1,000 is enough, why a five or six minute video beats a 30 minute one, and why AI search traffic converted 46% better than other traffic in an Adobe study.

You don’t need to become the next MrBeast. You need to start, stay consistent, and answer the questions your clients are already asking.

📌 You’ll learn:

• Why YouTube is, on average, the number one source AI tools cite, and what that means when a potential client asks ChatGPT which lawyer to hire
• Why AI trusts content that isn’t yours, and how YouTube counts as third-party validation even when your firm records and publishes every video How to build a 90-day
• YouTube content calendar from the questions potential clients ask before they sign, using search volume and keyword difficulty
• The three content pillars that build trust for law firms on YouTube: founder stories, education about your services, and social proof from real clients
• Why blog posts still feed AI search, why embedding your YouTube videos in them earns bonus points, and why most people choose watching over reading
• How a setup under $1,000, five to six minute videos, and a consistent schedule build your firm’s authority footprint without chasing viral views
• How to check where your firm stands in AI search by asking ChatGPT or Claude your clients’ questions, then asking why it recommended those firms

💡 Featuring:

• Karin and MaryAnn break down why YouTube has become a top source for AI search, how law firms can turn client questions into a consistent video content calendar, and why organic video builds an asset that keeps paying off long after paid ads stop.

Learn actionable tips on:

00:00 Why did AI recommend three firms but not yours?

02:14 Why is YouTube the top source AI tools cite?

03:12 Why AI trusts content that isn’t yours

06:47 Start with the questions clients ask before they sign

08:53 Blog posts vs. YouTube videos for AI search

09:57 The under $1,000 setup and getting over camera fear

14:52 How to build a 90-day YouTube content calendar

17:20 Founder stories, education, and social proof as content pillars

21:54 Why education beats promotion on YouTube

29:37 MasterClass AI classes for the Thought Leaders Library

32:03 First step: ask AI who it recommends and why

34:26 Paid media vs. organic and the 46% AI traffic stat

Resources:

• MasterClass AI classes: https://www.masterclass.com
• Found vs. Chosen: Why Lawyers Get Skipped with Andrew Colsky: https://conroycreativecounsel.com/podcast-cat/episode-books/found-vs-chosen-why-lawyers-get-skipped-with-andrew-colsky/

Want your firm’s expertise showing up on the platforms AI trusts? Build your authority with Conroy Creative Counsel, Marketing Co-Counsel® to law firms, at https://conroycreativecounsel.com

Connect with MaryAnn

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryannbautista/
• Website: https://turborank.co/
• Free YouTube channel audit: [email protected]

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• Karin on Twitter
• Karin on LinkedIn
• Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
• https://conroycreativecounsel.com

Omnipresence marketing for law firms means showing up consistently on every platform your future clients use, so they already know you and trust you before they ever call. If you’ve ever said “I don’t have the time, I don’t have a studio, and I do not want to be on camera,” that’s totally fair. But your future clients are not choosing you on credentials first. They’re choosing the lawyer they’ve already seen. And as AI search pulls answers from YouTube, LinkedIn, and video transcripts all at once, being everywhere is quickly becoming how you get found.

In this episode of Counsel Cast Chambers, the best of Counsel Cast reexamined, Karin Conroy, your marketing co-counsel and founder of Conroy Creative Counsel, revisits her conversation with Jake Isham, CEO of Creative Minds and a filmmaker and photographer who has built brand presence for more than 150 entrepreneurs, including Grant Cardone and Callaway. You’ll hear how one half-day batch shoot can produce over 1,000 posts a month, how to turn a single transcript into blog posts, emails, and LinkedIn content with ChatGPT and Canva, and why 1,000 of the right views beat a million of the wrong ones. This conversation first aired in September 2025, and AI tools have moved fast since then. But Jake’s rule still holds in 2026: you stop being the copywriter and become the editor. You can always improve the quality later, but you can’t start later.

Jake gives listeners actionable tips on:

• 00:00 The no time, no studio, no camera objection
• 00:23 Why omnipresence matters for AI search visibility
• 01:51 Meet Jake Isham, CEO of Creative Minds
• 02:05 What is omnipresence marketing for law firms?
• 02:43 Why people hire lawyers they know and trust
• 03:05 Why 1,000 right views beat a million wrong ones
• 03:44 How often should a law firm record video?
• 04:02 Batch shooting a month of content in half a day
• 04:30 Turning one transcript into blogs, emails, and posts
• 05:54 Why you become the editor, not the copywriter
• 06:58 The 10X Rule and Grant Cardone’s omnipresence playbook
• 08:29 Improve quality later, but start now

Connect with Jake here:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakeisham/
• Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/jakecreativemarketing
• http://www.jakeisham.com

Connect with me

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• Karin on Twitter
• Karin on LinkedIn
• Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
• https://conroycreativecounsel.com

Local AI search is how ChatGPT, Google, and other AI tools decide which lawyers to recommend when someone in your city asks who to call. The firms AI names aren’t always the best ones. They’re the ones AI can actually figure out. If your Google Business Profile is half finished and your website says the same thing as every other firm in town, AI has no reason to pick you.

In this episode of Counsel Cast, Karin Conroy, legal marketing consultant, founder of Conroy Creative Counsel, and Marketing Co-Counsel® to law firms, sits down with Tyler Henn, founder of Hennhouse Digital Growth Studio in Marietta, Georgia. Tyler builds search-optimized websites and local SEO for service businesses. He walks through his Google Business Profile framework: 4 to 5 relevant categories, 30 total services, and a page on your website for every one. You’ll hear why hiding your address means you won’t rank, why answering “no” beats leaving a question blank, and how one client ranked number one for Latino-owned roofing in a market of 3,300 competitors.

Then Karin and Tyler move to the human side: user experience, Steve Krug’s Don’t Make Me Think, and why your homepage should lead with the client’s problem, not your founding partner’s story. Getting found is only half the job. Your website still has to make choosing you easy.

📌 You’ll learn:

• Why local AI search recommends the firms it can understand, not always the best ones, and what that means when someone asks ChatGPT which lawyer to call
• How one Google Business Profile setting about your address quietly decides whether your firm ranks, and why hiding it puts you at the bottom of the list
• Why answering every Google Business Profile question, even with a simple no, shows Google you put in the effort and helps your firm in local AI search
• How attributes like woman-owned, veteran-owned, and Spanish-speaking win specific searches, including how one client ranked first among 3,300 Metro Atlanta competitors
• Tyler Henn’s framework of 4 to 5 categories, 30 total services, and a dedicated page for every practice area, so Google and AI know exactly what your firm does
• Why generic claims like “exceptional legal services” and “free consultation” make your firm invisible, and how to find the real differentiator AI can recommend
• What user experience means for law firm websites, and how Don’t Make Me Think and PostHog session replays show where potential clients get stuck and leave

💡 Featuring:

• Karin and Tyler break down how local AI search decides which firms get recommended, the Google Business Profile mistakes that keep law firms off the list, and why a clear, user-first website is what turns being found into being hired.

Learn actionable tips on:

00:00 Why does AI recommend some law firms and not others?

01:47 How is local AI search different from SEO, GEO, and AEO?

02:03 Why your Google Business Profile is step zero

03:47 The hidden address setting that stops you from ranking

07:35 Why you should answer every profile question, even with no

08:40 How business attributes help you win local AI search

11:19 Why AI search is getting far more specific

17:42 The 4 categories and 30 services framework

25:21 What is UX and why does it matter for law firms?

32:38 Don’t Make Me Think by Steve Krug for the Thought Leaders Library

35:24 How PostHog session replays catch broken contact forms

38:13 First steps to show up in local AI search

Resources:

• Don’t Make Me Think by Steve Krug
• Purple Cow by Seth Godin
• PostHog: https://posthog.com
• Found vs. Chosen: Why Lawyers Get Skipped with Andrew Colsky: https://conroycreativecounsel.com/podcast-cat/episode-books/found-vs-chosen-why-lawyers-get-skipped-with-andrew-colsky/

Not sure the right local clients are finding your firm, or what happens once they do? Work with Conroy Creative Counsel, Marketing Co-Counsel® to law firms, at https://conroycreativecounsel.com

Connect with Tyler

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hennhouseagency/
• X: https://x.com/hennhouseagency
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hennhouse/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61586707835838
• Website: https://www.henn.house/

Connect with me

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• Karin on Twitter
• Karin on LinkedIn
• Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
• https://conroycreativecounsel.com

How can you measure whether law firm PR is helping your firm grow?

In this Counsel Cast Chambers episode, Karin Conroy revisits her conversation with Michelle Calcote King, Principal and President of Reputation Ink, about excess share of voice, the gap between your firm’s share of visibility and its share of the market.

Michelle explains how earning more attention than your market position would suggest can support future growth. She explores how law firms can assess their visibility by defining a relevant market, identifying competitors, and comparing mentions within that group.

They also discuss how published articles, expert commentary, and media relationships help attorneys build credibility and become recognized sources on legal topics. Michelle explains why PR can take around a year to show its impact and why consistent, useful content matters for online visibility.

Plus, she recommends Everybody Writes by Ann Handley and shares why clear, accessible writing helps law firms connect with prospective clients.

Michelle gives listeners actionable tips on:

• 00:00 Can You Measure Law Firm PR?
• 00:58 Share of Voice and Business Growth
• 03:37 Measuring Your Firm’s Visibility
• 05:04 Becoming a Quoted Legal Expert
• 06:11 PR Timelines and Online Credibility
• 07:13 Writing That Connects With Clients

Connect with Michelle here:

• Instagram
• Twitter
• Facebook
• LinkedIn
• www.rep-ink.com

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• Karin on Twitter
• Karin on LinkedIn
• Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
• https://conroycreativecounsel.com

Law firm authority is the trust you build before a prospect ever picks up the phone, and it is the difference between being found and being chosen. Plenty of firms show up in Google, in AI search, and in local service ads, and still don't get hired. If that sounds familiar, visibility is not your problem. Trust is.

In this Q3 2026 edition of Counsel Cast Compendium, Karin Conroy, legal marketing consultant, founder of Conroy Creative Counsel, and Marketing Co-Counsel® to law firms, pulls a full quarter of conversations into one sitting. Think of it like a home renovation video: months of work, fast-forwarded to the highlights. You'll hear Andrew Colsky of Be-Picked on why SEO alone is the mistake, Terry L. Fossum on getting on real stages, Rachel Allen on borrowing audiences through podcast guesting, Joshua Lenon of Clio on why 71% of solo attorneys use AI but only about a third see new revenue from it, Delisi Friday of First Call Friday on turning referrals into a system, and Doug Vannatta on intake that builds or erodes trust.

The decision to hire you happens in places you don't control: on someone else's stage, in an AI answer, in a referral partner's recommendation, and in the first 30 seconds with whoever answers your phone. This episode shows you where your firm is leaking trust and which weak link to fix first.

📌 You’ll learn:

• Why law firm authority, not visibility, decides who gets hired, and why being found and being chosen are two completely different things
• How to write content that answers the 2 a.m. question your future client is actually typing into Google and AI search
• Why speaking at care facilities, chambers of commerce, and rotary clubs builds law firm authority faster than doing what every other firm does
• How podcast guesting builds rapport before the first call, and why a playlist of your guest spots reinforces your expertise with prospects
• Why 71% of solo attorneys use AI but only about a third see new revenue, and why your firm needs a published AI policy
• How Delisi Friday's four referral groups turn referrals from luck into a repeatable law firm marketing system
• Why every intake interaction builds or erodes trust, and how to find out what really happens when someone calls your firm after hours

💡 Featuring:

• Karin connects a full quarter of Counsel Cast conversations into one answer to why law firms get found but not chosen.

Learn actionable tips on:

00:00 Why do easy-to-find firms still not get hired?

02:11 Andrew Colsky on why SEO alone is not enough

04:02 The 2 a.m. question your content needs to answer

06:17 Terry L. Fossum on building authority from real stages

08:12 Rachel Allen on podcast guesting and borrowed audiences

09:55 Why isn't AI making law firms more money?

12:25 Delisi Friday on building a law firm referral engine

14:50 Doug Vannatta on intake that builds or erodes trust

16:35 Counsel Cast Chambers episodes you may have missed

19:45 Hidden Potential by Adam Grant for the Thought Leaders Library

21:25 Why visibility without law firm authority is just noise

22:55 Fix your weakest link and close the trust gap

Resources:

• Hidden Potential by Adam Grant
• Found vs. Chosen: Why Lawyers Get Skipped with Andrew Colsky: https://conroycreativecounsel.com/podcast-cat/episode-books/found-vs-chosen-why-lawyers-get-skipped-with-andrew-colsky/
• From Invisible to Authority with Terry L. Fossum: https://conroycreativecounsel.com/podcast-cat/episode-books/from-invisible-to-authority-with-terry-l-fossum/
• Why Podcasts Win in the AI Era with Rachel Allen: https://conroycreativecounsel.com/podcast-cat/episode-books/why-podcasts-win-in-the-ai-era-with-rachel-allen/
• Why Isn't AI Making Your Firm Money? with Joshua Lenon: https://conroycreativecounsel.com/podcast-cat/episode-books/why-isnt-ai-making-your-firm-money-with-joshua-lenon/
• How Do You Build a Referral Engine? with Delisi Friday: https://conroycreativecounsel.com/podcast-cat/episode-books/how-do-you-build-a-referral-engine-with-delisi-friday/
• Is Intake Undoing Your Marketing? with Doug Vannatta: https://conroycreativecounsel.com/podcast-cat/episode-books/is-intake-undoing-your-marketing-with-doug-vannatta/

Want your firm's expertise heard on the right stages? Learn about the Authority Tour at https://conroycreativecounsel.com/authority-tour/

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• Karin on Twitter
• Karin on LinkedIn
• Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
• https://conroycreativecounsel.com

Is your law firm spending money to generate leads, only to lose prospective clients during intake?

A strong website, effective SEO strategy, and consistent marketing can get someone to call your firm. But what happens in the next few minutes determines whether that lead becomes your client or hires the next lawyer who answers, listens, and builds trust.

In this episode of Counsel Cast, Karin Conroy speaks with Doug Vannatta, founder of HD Intake Solutions, about why the law firm intake process is one of the most overlooked drivers of revenue. Doug explains why adding more leads cannot fix a broken intake system, how every interaction either builds or erodes trust, and why speed, consistency, and active listening matter long before an attorney discusses credentials or price.

Karin and Doug explore how legal intake teams can make prospective clients feel heard without giving legal advice. They break down the value of asking thoughtful follow-up questions, restating what a caller has shared, remembering the caller's real concern, and adapting the conversation to different personalities. Doug also explains why firms need a flexible conversation framework rather than a rigid intake script.

The conversation also looks at the relationship between law firm marketing and intake. Your website may promise responsiveness, empathy, and 24/7 availability, but if a caller reaches voicemail or waits days for a reply, the experience contradicts the message. When firms fail to differentiate themselves through trust and service, price may become the prospective client's only basis for comparison.

If your firm wants more signed clients, a higher intake conversion rate, and a better return on its marketing investment, this episode will help you identify the friction hiding between the first search and the signed engagement.

📌 You’ll learn:

• Why generating more leads will not solve a weak law firm intake process.
• How intake gaps can quietly erase the return on your marketing investment.
• Why every client interaction either builds trust or erodes it.
• How inconsistent promises, including claiming 24/7 availability, damage credibility.
• Why active listening is more persuasive than rushing to the next scripted question.
• How follow-up questions and reflective listening make prospective clients feel heard.
• Why reconnecting a legal solution to the caller's personal concern can strengthen conversion.
• How nonlawyer intake staff can demonstrate knowledge without giving legal advice.
• Why intake calls need a flexible framework instead of a one-size-fits-all script.
• How personality differences should shape the intake experience and attorney handoff.
• Why sounding like every competing firm leaves prospective clients comparing price alone.
• How recorded intake calls can reveal missed opportunities and guide better coaching.
• Why quoting a fee too early can create friction before trust has been established.
• How to audit the full journey from a client's first search to a signed engagement.

💡 Featuring:

• Doug explains that legal intake is not merely an administrative step. It is sales understood as service, and it begins the moment someone raises their hand for help. The principles remain the same across firms: respond promptly, understand the caller's perspective, reduce friction, and make the person feel heard.
• Karin and Doug examine why trust must match the firm's marketing promises. A polished website cannot compensate for unanswered calls, generic conversations, long holds, or a rushed discussion about price. The most effective intake experience carries the firm's message forward through genuine human connection.

Karin and Doug give listeners actionable tips on:

00:00 Why law firm intake can undo effective marketing

03:28 How consistent, genuine visibility builds familiarity before the first call

10:42 The intake mistakes that erode prospective-client trust

18:10 Using active listening and follow-up questions to make callers feel heard

22:12 Why legal intake needs a framework, not a rigid script

26:34 Demonstrating knowledge without giving legal advice

28:34 Adapting intake calls and attorney handoffs to different personalities

36:00 Why copying competitors makes price the deciding factor

39:32 Creating safety during high-stakes client conversations

46:56 Reviewing recorded calls and auditing the full intake journey

Resources:

• Crucial Conversations by Joseph Grenny

Connect with Doug

• LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/humble-doug
• Website: http://hdintake.com

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• Karin on Twitter
• Karin on LinkedIn
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• https://conroycreativecounsel.com

How do you set a law firm ad budget?

This Counsel Cast Chambers episode is with Ameet Khabra, founder of HopSkip Media, discussing how law firms should set advertising budgets using data rather than vague ranges.

She explains that SEO and PPC work best together and that marketing efforts should not be siloed, with consistent messaging and content remaining central. In reviewing ad reports, she highlights impressions as a key metric for spotting meaningful month-over-month declines, prompting actions like expanding keyword lists or adding channels such as Facebook, which she describes as opening the door while Google closes the sale.

For budgeting, she uses Google performance data (e.g., cost per click) cross-referenced with benchmarks (CTR and cost per acquisition), models expected outcomes at different spend levels, and considers competitors’ estimated spend to determine whether to compete directly or grow in phases tied to lead goals.

Ameet gives listeners actionable tips on:

• 00:00 Ad Budget Guesswork
• 00:52 SEO and PPC Together
• 01:47 Content and Unified Messaging
• 02:46 Reading Reports and Spotting Drops
• 03:49 Building a Realistic Budget

Connect with Ameet here:

• Instagram
• Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Facebook
• www.hopskipmedia.com

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• Twitter
• Karin on Twitter
• Karin on LinkedIn
• Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
• https://conroycreativecounsel.com

Why are law firms becoming more efficient with AI without seeing the same improvement in revenue?

AI tools are helping lawyers complete research, analyze contracts, prepare documents, respond to clients, and manage their firms faster than ever. Yet many firms are discovering that saving time does not automatically translate into earning more money.

In this episode of Counsel Cast, Karin Conroy welcomes Joshua Lenon, Lawyer in Residence at Clio, back to the show to unpack the AI efficiency paradox facing modern law firms.

Joshua shares insights from Clio’s Legal Trends Report, including why firms using AI across their entire organization are experiencing stronger financial results than firms relying on isolated, task-specific tools. Karin and Joshua explore how lawyers can move beyond using AI for basic productivity and begin applying it to client service, law firm marketing, business development, pricing, and long-term growth.

They also examine what AI means for the billable hour. When legal work takes less time to complete, firms must reconsider whether time remains the best measure of value. Joshua explains why flat fees, segmented services, and other value-based pricing models may allow firms to benefit from efficiency without being financially penalized for working faster.

The conversation also addresses one of the most urgent issues surrounding AI for law firms: transparency. With more clients wanting to know whether and how their lawyers use AI, a clear public AI policy can strengthen trust, explain how client information is protected, and establish appropriate boundaries for both attorneys and clients.

If your law firm is using AI but has yet to see a meaningful impact on revenue, this episode will help you identify the missing link between adopting new technology and building a more profitable, responsive, and sustainable practice.

📌 You’ll learn:

• Why widespread AI adoption has not automatically increased law firm revenue.
• What Clio’s research reveals about how law firms are currently using AI.
• Why firms using AI throughout their operations are seeing stronger financial results.
• The difference between adopting one legal AI tool and building an AI-enabled firm.
• How AI can identify timely opportunities to reconnect with former clients.
• How contextual data can improve law firm marketing and client communication.
• Why faster response times can dramatically improve the intake experience.
• Why the lawyer, not the technology, remains the firm’s true differentiator.
• How AI can reduce tedious work, improve work-life balance, and support employee retention.
• Why greater efficiency creates problems for the traditional billable-hour model.
• How flat fees and value-based pricing can help firms monetize efficiency.
• Why clients may prioritize responsiveness and experience over finding the lowest price.
• What every law firm should include in its approach to AI policies.
• Why transparency about AI use can strengthen client confidence and trust.
• How lawyers can use AI as an enhancement without removing human judgment.

💡 Featuring:

• Karin and Rachel explain what makes a podcast pitch worth reading. The strongest pitches are personal, concise, and immediately clear. They establish the guest’s credibility, introduce an interesting and relevant story, and communicate a distinct belief or point of view that gives the host a compelling reason to continue the conversation.
• They also explore why podcasts are especially powerful for lawyers and other high-trust service providers. Hearing someone speak creates familiarity and rapport that credentials alone cannot provide. By the time a listener schedules a consultation, they may already understand the lawyer’s personality, philosophy, and approach.

Karin and Joshua give listeners actionable tips on:

00:00 Why AI efficiency is not automatically increasing revenue

02:43 What Clio’s data reveals about AI adoption in law firms

05:01 Why firm-wide AI use produces stronger financial results

08:27 Using AI to uncover timely client marketing opportunities

11:12 Turning legal data and new case law into proactive service

12:13 How one lawyer converted a lead while waiting at the airport

13:56 Why the lawyer remains the differentiator in an AI-driven market

18:07 Keeping the human inside the AI process

20:56 How AI challenges the traditional billable-hour model

24:11 Exploring flat fees, segmented matters, and value-based pricing

27:51 Why law firms need a clear and public AI policy

35:13 Using AI as co-intelligence rather than a replacement for lawyers

Resources:

• Co-Intelligence by Ethan Mollick
• Legal Trends: https://www.clio.com/resources/legal-trends/

Connect with Joshua

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshualenon/
• Website: https://www.clio.com/

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• Karin on Twitter
• Karin on LinkedIn
• Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
• https://conroycreativecounsel.com

What was happening in your client’s life before they called you, and what happens after your last conversation ends?

This Counsel Cast Chambers episode is with Laura Hartnett, who asks lawyers what happens in a client’s life before they call and after the last conversation – questions most can’t answer.

Drawing on her experience as a management consultant, litigation associate, and Fortune 100 in-house counsel, Hartnett teaches design thinking for legal services: map the full client journey, including stages where the lawyer isn’t present, identify pain points, and design better solutions beyond emails and memos.

She highlights small, empathy-driven changes like providing a one-page quarterly stakeholder update deck that takes about 10 minutes but reshapes the relationship. A key step many skip is getting feedback and iterating, including sharing failures.

Laura gives listeners actionable tips on:

• 00:00 Two Questions That Change Everything
• 01:28 Map the Client Journey
• 02:33 Tiny Experiments That Wow Clients
• 02:55 Feedback Loops and Celebrating Failure
• 05:53 Rethink Legal Practice and Book Pick

Connect with Laura here

• LinkedIn
• https://laurahartnett.com

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• Karin on LinkedIn
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• https://conroycreativecounsel.com