Most law firms don’t have a lead generation problem.

They have a dependency problem.

In this episode of Counsel Cast, host Karin Conroy sits down with Davina Frederick, Florida licensed attorney, two-time author, and founder of Wealthy Woman Lawyer.

Together, they unpack why referral-based growth quietly caps your firm, how mindset directly impacts marketing effectiveness, and why most lawyers struggle to scale past their own personal hustle.

Davina shares how law firm owners can move from unpredictable referrals to a systematic, scalable client attraction model, without relying on being everywhere, doing everything, or burning out in the process.

This episode bridges strategy, mindset, and modern marketing realities, including AI, social platforms, ads, and delegation, to help firm owners step fully into their role as visionary leaders.

If you feel stuck in a referral rut, overwhelmed by marketing noise, or unsure how to scale without doing more yourself, this conversation offers clarity and direction.

📌 You’ll learn:

1. Why referral-based firms almost always hit a revenue ceiling
2. The mindset shift required to scale beyond solo hustle
3. Why staying “in the question” unlocks better strategy and decisions
4. How AI can expand thinking instead of replacing expertise
5. Why marketing is data, not failure or success
6. How to choose marketing channels that fit both your audience and you
7. Why copying other firms’ strategies rarely works
8. How to build a client attraction system that doesn’t depend on you
9. The difference between vision, strategy, and execution
10. Why your real job as a firm owner is being the visionary

💡 Featuring:

1. Karin and Davina explore how law firm owners get trapped by outdated ideas of authority, visibility, and control. They discuss why modern clients arrive informed, how AI and Google have changed trust dynamics, and why firms must show up as credible humans, not untouchable experts. Davina shares her framework for building scalable client attraction systems, explains why mindset work is not optional for growth, and outlines how delegation, systems, and outside expertise allow firms to grow without collapsing under their own success. This episode reframes marketing from “what should I do?” to “who do I need to become to lead this firm?”

Karin and Davina give listeners actionable tips on:

1. 0:00 Why referrals eventually cap your firm’s growth
2. 2:30 The hidden mindset problem behind lead generation struggles
3. 5:00 Why lawyers resist mindset work, and why it matters
4. 8:00 Staying in the question instead of forcing answers
5. 11:00 Using AI to expand strategic thinking
6. 14:00 Marketing as data, not failure
7. 17:00 Trying strategies without attaching identity to outcomes
8. 20:00 Why what works for others may fail for you
9. 23:00 The danger of comparison-based marketing
10. 26:00 Authenticity, visibility, and modern authority
11. 29:00 Building systems that don’t rely on you
12. 32:00 Delegation, ads, and scalable marketing infrastructure
13. 35:00 SEO vs ads, wells vs faucets
14. 38:00 The real role of the law firm owner
15. 41:00 Vision before execution
16. 44:00 Book recommendation and mindset expansion
17. 47:00 Becoming the person who can lead a million-dollar firm

Resources mentioned in this episode:

1. Bending Reality by Victoria Song
2. Grow Your Law Firm While You Sleep:

Connect with Davina:

1. Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wealthywomanlawyer
2. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davinafrederick/
3. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wealthywomanlawyer/
4. Website: https://wealthywomanlawyer.com/

Connect with me

1. Instagram
2. Pinterest
3. Facebook
4. Twitter
5. Karin on Twitter
6. Karin on LinkedIn
7. Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
8. https://conroycreativecounsel.com

In this episode of Counsel Cast Chambers, Jennie Wright, a lead generation consultant and creator of the List Injection Method, explains how law firms can optimize their lead generation efforts for long-term success. Topics covered include why SEO shouldn't be the first move, selecting effective lead magnets, fixing landing pages, and maintaining social media consistency.

Jennie highlights common lead generation mistakes, the importance of auditing traffic channels, and the value of consistent and patient marketing efforts.

Jennie gives listeners actionable tips on:

1. 00:00 Introduction to Effective Lead Generation
2. 01:01 Why SEO Shouldn't Be Your First Move
3. 01:34 Common Lead Generation Mistakes
4. 02:29 The Importance of Consistent Content
5. 02:45 Understanding the Fractional CMO Program
6. 04:11 Optimizing Traffic Channels
7. 05:36 The Power of Consistency and Patience
8. 06:44 Final Takeaways on Lead Generation

Connect with Jennie here:

1. https://www.instagram.com/jennielwright/
2. http://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniewrightjlw
3. https://www.facebook.com/jenniewrightjlw/
4. https://jenniewright.com

Connect with me

1. Instagram
2. Pinterest
3. Facebook
4. Twitter
5. Karin on Twitter
6. Karin on LinkedIn
7. Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
8. https://conroycreativecounsel.com

Your law firm’s first impression no longer happens on your website.

It happens before anyone ever clicks.

In this episode of Counsel Cast, host Karin Conroy sits down with Jason Barnard, widely known as The Brand SERP Guy, to unpack how Google, ChatGPT, and AI-powered search engines are already deciding who gets trusted, recommended, and hired.

Jason explains why most law firm marketing breaks long before the funnel begins, and how outdated, inconsistent, or under-optimized search results quietly erode trust before a prospect ever reaches your site.

This conversation goes beyond SEO tactics.

It’s about authority, organization, credibility, and teaching machines to understand your value, not assume it.

If AI is now the gatekeeper, this episode shows you how to make it your advocate.

📌 You’ll learn:

1. Why your website is no longer your primary first impression
2. What a Brand SERP really is, and why it matters more than rankings
3. How Google, ChatGPT, Perplexity, Copilot, Siri, and Meta all decide who belongs in the “who’s who”
4. Why Knowledge Panels are a critical KPI, even as traditional search fades
5. How AI assistants summarize your content long before a human sees it
6. Why external validation matters more than self-promotion
7. The Claim–Frame–Proof model for building algorithmic trust
8. How AI moves prospects through the funnel before they ever click
9. Why fewer website visits can actually mean higher-quality leads
10. The biggest mistake firms make, assuming machines “just get it”
11. Why organization today prepares you for AI agents tomorrow

💡 Featuring:

1. Karin and Jason unpack how Google, ChatGPT, and emerging AI search tools decide who belongs in the digital “who’s who,” why most firms are being quietly underestimated by algorithms, and how authority is built through organization, consistency, and third-party validation. They break down why AI doesn’t reward assumptions, how credibility must be made machine-readable, and why teaching algorithms who you are is now a foundational marketing responsibility.

Karin and Jason give listeners actionable tips on:

1. 0:00 Why your real first impression is Google, not your website
2. 2:00 What a SERP is, and why it defines brand trust
3. 5:00 Knowledge Panels as the “who’s who” of search
4. 8:00 How AI decides who gets recommended
5. 10:00 Why search is disappearing, but authority isn’t
6. 13:00 Teaching machines who you are and why you matter
7. 17:00 Claim, frame, prove, and why proof must live off-site
8. 21:00 Third-party validation and algorithmic credibility
9. 25:00 Blog content, AI summaries, and why traffic lies
10. 29:00 AI-built funnels and the “perfect click”
11. 33:00 The 95/5 rule and algorithmic memory
12. 37:00 Why organization beats optimization
13. 41:00 Preparing for AI agents before they arrive
14. 45:00 Book recommendation for SEO and AI strategy
15. 48:00 What to focus on now, before everyone else catches up

Resources mentioned in this episode:

1. SEO in 2026 by David Bain

Connect with Jason:

1. Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jasonmartinbarnard
2. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonmbarnard/
3. YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxnrBqNI4NKzqURO2aqClxA
4. Kalicube: https://kalicube.pro/
5. https://jasonbarnard.com/

Connect with me

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2. Pinterest
3. Facebook
4. Twitter
5. Karin on Twitter
6. Karin on LinkedIn
7. Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
8. https://conroycreativecounsel.com

In this episode of Counsel Cast Chambers, we revisit our critical discussion with Michelle Hunter on the importance of strategic marketing for law firms.

Michelle emphasizes the necessity of clear goal setting, prioritizing effective tactics, and crafting compelling copy to foster sustainable growth and improve client conversion. She highlights common marketing missteps, such as relying too heavily on SEO or tactless tactics without a strategic foundation.

Michelle advocates for a quarterly review of tactics within an annual goal framework to ensure adaptability and efficiency. She underscores the need for law firms to focus on essential marketing components tailored to their specific goals, rather than following generic advice.

Michelle gives listeners actionable tips on:

1. 00:00 Law Firm Marketing Challenges
2. 00:06 The Importance of Strategic Planning
3. 00:57 Setting Clear Goals for Your Firm
4. 01:55 Common Marketing Missteps
5. 02:33 Quarterly Evaluation and Execution
6. 03:16 Tailoring Marketing to Your Firm's Needs

Connect with Michelle here:

1. [email protected]
2. LinkedIn
3. https://michellehuntercreative.com/

Connect with me

1. Instagram
2. Pinterest
3. Facebook
4. Twitter
5. Karin on Twitter
6. Karin on LinkedIn
7. Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
8. https://conroycreativecounsel.com

AI marketing does not fail because the technology is broken.

It fails when humans disappear from the process.

In this deeply grounded and forward-looking episode of Counsel Cast, host Karin Conroy sits down with Mike Montague, founder of Avenue Nine, to explore what it really means to build human-first AI marketing systems that protect trust instead of eroding it.

Mike brings a rare perspective. He speaks fluent “nerd,” has spent 15+ years coaching enterprise sales teams, has executed campaigns for Fortune-level brands, and has performed on stages in front of tens of thousands of people. That combination gives him a unique lens on AI, marketing psychology, and why most current AI advice is dangerously shallow.

Together, Karin and Mike dismantle the idea that AI is a shortcut or replacement for strategy. Instead, they frame AI as an amplifier. It magnifies whatever system already exists, whether that system is thoughtful and human, or generic and broken.

This conversation goes far beyond prompts and tools. It explores trust, ethics, creativity, emotional labor, and why the most powerful use of AI actually makes marketing more personal, not less.

📌 You’ll learn:

1. Why “human-first AI” is not common sense in modern marketing
2. The subtle red flags that instantly signal AI-generated content and quietly destroy trust
3. Why AI always defaults to predictable, lowest-common-denominator answers
4. How to build a contextual AI system that actually sounds like you
5. Why remixing your content beats generating new content from scratch
6. The real danger of letting AI start the thinking instead of supporting it
7. How AI can personalize campaigns at a level humans never had time to do before
8. Why mass marketing is fading and individual-based marketing is rising
9. Where AI belongs, where it doesn’t, and why emotional work still belongs to humans
10. How to pressure-test your ideas by letting AI critique them before the market does
11. Why “I’ll know it when I see it” is not a strategy (and how AI exposes that gap)

💡 Featuring:

1. Karin and Mike also unpack why AI slop is everywhere right now, how marketers accidentally sabotage trust through formatting mistakes and tone mismatches, and why letting AI “drive the bus” is the fastest way to dilute your brand.

Karin and Mike give listeners actionable tips on:

1. 0:00 Introduction
2. 2:00 Why AI advice today feels shallow and incomplete
3. 5:00 The chainsaw problem, power without precision
4. 8:00 How trust gets broken through obvious AI signals
5. 10:00 Why AI defaults to predictable answers
6. 13:00 Building a context-driven AI system
7. 15:00 Human-first vs Terminator-style automation
8. 18:00 Personalization at scale without losing humanity
9. 21:00 Where AI belongs, and where it absolutely doesn’t
10. 25:00 Emotional work vs intellectual work
11. 29:00 Remixing content instead of creating more noise
12. 33:00 Why mass marketing is quietly dying
13. 37:00 AI as amplifier, not replacement
14. 41:00 Creative freedom, bandwidth, and better thinking
15. 45:00 Book recommendation and responsibility in the AI era
16. 48:00 Practical first steps for using AI the right way

Resources mentioned in this episode:

1. What to Do When it's Your Turn by Seth Godin

Connect with Mike:

1. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tobiegroup/
2. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikedmontague/
3. https://avenue9.com/

Connect with me

1. Instagram
2. Pinterest
3. Facebook
4. Twitter
5. Karin on Twitter
6. Karin on LinkedIn
7. Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
8. https://conroycreativecounsel.com

In this episode of Counsel Cast Chambers, branding strategist Johanna White shares insights on how law firms can distinguish themselves from the competition and attract high-value clients through effective branding.

She outlines a three-step process to transform a firm's brand from commodity to premium: know your value, show your value, and add more value. Emphasizing the importance of clarity, consistency, and continuous evolution, she explains how establishing a strong brand foundation can instill confidence and build trust, ultimately leading to clients willing to pay more for premium services and exceptional experiences.

Johanna gives listeners actionable tips on:

• 00:00 Introduction to Branding for Law Firms
• 00:51 Three Steps to Building a Standout Brand
• 01:03 Knowing Your Value: The Foundation of Branding
• 02:21 Clarifying Your Message for Premium Clients
• 03:01 Evolving Your Brand Over Time
• 04:05 Building Trust Through Your Brand

Connect with Johanna here:

• https://www.instagram.com/designbyjostudio/ 
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/johanna-white-designbyjo/
• https://www.facebook.com/Designbyjostudio 
• https://www.designbyjostudio.com/ 

Connect with me

• Instagram
• Pinterest
• Facebook
• Twitter
• Karin on Twitter
• Karin on LinkedIn
• Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
• https://conroycreativecounsel.com 

Most law firm ad campaigns fail for a simple reason. They are turned on before the foundation is built.

In this strategic and refreshingly honest episode of Counsel Cast, host Karin Conroy is joined by Ryan Burch, founder of Tobie Group, an advertising and marketing consultancy known for bringing Fortune 500-level strategy to small and mid-sized businesses.

Ryan breaks down why digital advertising platforms are not magic buttons, why “testing everything” is not a strategy, and why many law firms are unknowingly burning money by skipping the most important step, defining the right audience before launching ads.

Together, Karin and Ryan explore what law firms actually need in place before running ads, how to diagnose what’s broken when campaigns stall or fail, and why you cannot use advertising to fix a weak marketing foundation.

This episode reframes ads not as a quick win, but as a system that only works when the right inputs, tracking, and strategy are already in place.

📌 You’ll learn:

• Why most law firm ads fail before they even launch
• The difference between a goal and an actual marketing strategy
• Why “audience first, always” changes everything
• How throwing money at ads without a foundation creates false conclusions
• Why digital ad platforms are powerful and dangerous at the same time
• What law firms misunderstand about testing and experimentation
• How to diagnose whether ads failed or the strategy did
• Why your current clients are not always your ideal clients
• How market shifts and new competitors silently raise ad costs
• Why marketing foundations must be revisited quarterly
• The real reason “it didn’t work last time” is often misleading

💡 Featuring:

• Real-world case examples of law firms running ads without a strategic foundation, behind-the-scenes breakdowns of how legacy landing pages, outdated tracking, and misaligned audiences quietly drain budgets, and firsthand stories of campaigns that “failed” only because the inputs were wrong. Ryan shares how ad platforms amplify whatever system already exists, why spaghetti-at-the-wall testing creates false conclusions, and how firms unknowingly sabotage performance through messy websites, conflicting call tracking, and abandoned marketing remnants. Karin and Ryan unpack how Fortune 500-style thinking, clear audience definition, clean analytics, and disciplined systems turn ads from an expense into a predictable growth lever.

Karin and Ryan give listeners actionable tips on:

• 0:00 Introduction
• 2:00 Why ad platforms feel powerful but confusing
• 5:00 The danger of trusting platforms without strategy
• 8:00 Why “we want more money” is not a strategy
• 10:00 Defining the right audience before running ads
• 13:00 Why your current clients may not be ideal clients
• 15:00 Market shifts, competition, and rising ad costs
• 18:00 Why foundations must be revisited regularly
• 21:00 Diagnosing failed ad campaigns
• 25:00 The role of tracking and analytics
• 29:00 Cleaning up websites and legacy marketing clutter
• 33:00 Why systems beat one-off wins
• 37:00 Art, science, and human psychology in marketing
• 41:00 Where AI fits and where it doesn’t
• 45:00 SEO, brand signals, and modern discovery
• 48:00 Practical next steps for law firms
• 50:00 Book recommendation and closing thoughts

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Beyond Entrepreneurship 2.0 by Jim Collins
• https://adsreportcard.com 

Connect with Ryan:

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tobiegroup/  
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tobiegroup/ 
• YouTube: https://youtu.be/a9EVr6NVN1g 
• https://tobiegroup.com/ 

Connect with me

• Instagram
• Pinterest
• Facebook
• Twitter
• Karin on Twitter
• Karin on LinkedIn
• Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
• https://conroycreativecounsel.com 

In this episode of Counsel Cast Chambers, digital marketing and conversion expert Jon Weberg shares powerful insights on how website speed can significantly impact your law firm's growth. Learn why having a dedicated server is crucial for optimal performance, how to streamline user experience by reducing form fields and simplifying processes, and why lead quality is paramount for profitability. 

Follow along as Jon explains how to move users through your website faster, enhance lead generation, and improve client conversion rates. Don't miss these essential strategies for expediting growth and enhancing your firm's digital presence.

Jon gives listeners actionable tips on:

• 00:00 Introduction: The Hidden Cost of a Slow Website
• 00:05 Expert Insights: Jon Weberg on Website Speed
• 00:42 Dedicated Servers: The Key to Reliable Performance
• 01:42 Streamlining User Experience for Better Conversion
• 01:59 Simplifying Forms and Processes
• 03:34 Maximizing Profitability Through Speed and Efficiency
• 03:51 Lead Generation: Quality Over Quantity
• 04:53 Building Strong Client Relationships

Connect with Jon here:

• https://www.facebook.com/JonnyWebes/
• https://www.instagram.com/jonnywebes/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonweberg/
• https://twitter.com/jonweberg
• https://profitalize.com 

Connect with me

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• Facebook
• Twitter
• Karin on Twitter
• Karin on LinkedIn
• Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
• https://conroycreativecounsel.com 

Cyber warfare is no longer a distant threat reserved for governments and billion-dollar corporations. In this eye-opening episode of Counsel Cast, host Karin Conroy sits down with Tom Kirkham, cybersecurity expert and CEO of Kirkham Iron Tech, to reveal how AI, ransomware, deepfakes, and social engineering are now actively targeting law firms of every size.

From fake text messages and phishing emails that fool even seasoned professionals, to nation-state level cyber weapons being used against small firms, Tom explains why no law firm is too small to be a target and why human behavior, not just technology, is the weakest link in every breach.

They break down the real cost of ransomware attacks, why paying the ransom is often only the beginning, how long-term backdoors are planted during “simple” attacks, and why 40–60 percent of small businesses never recover after a major cyber incident.

This episode delivers a clear message. Cybersecurity is no longer optional. It is a core leadership responsibility.

📌 You’ll learn:

• Why ransomware is now the number one cyber threat facing law firms
• How AI is being used by both hackers and defenders
• What “Human In The Loop” security really means
• Why 95 percent of major cyber breaches begin with human error
• How deepfakes and voice cloning are already disrupting trust in legal systems
• What an EDR is and why every firm must have one
• Why IT and cybersecurity are two different specialties
• How law firms become targets through LinkedIn and public data
• The true cost of a law firm being down for just one hour
• Why cybersecurity awareness training is the cheapest and most powerful defense
• How ransomware attacks often hide advanced persistent threats inside them
• What law firm leaders must stop delegating and start owning

💡 Featuring:

• Real-world case examples of ransomware attacks against small and mid-sized law firms, behind-the-scenes breakdowns of how nation-state cyber weapons trickle into everyday business attacks, and firsthand stories of long-con scams like “pig butchering” that quietly drain trust before the real breach hits. Tom shares how AI is now used to scrape LinkedIn, map law firm org charts, clone voices, and generate flawless phishing campaigns that bypass traditional spam filters. 

Karin and Tom give listeners actionable tips on:

• 0:00 Introduction and today’s cyber threat landscape
• 1:00 How cyber attacks have evolved with AI
• 5:00 Why ransomware is still the greatest threat to law firms
• 9:00 Why law firms are valuable targets, even the smallest ones
• 12:00 The danger of putting confidential information into AI tools
• 15:00 Deepfakes, voice cloning, and erosion of trust
• 19:00 Why most security breaches are caused by human behavior
• 23:00 The rise of long-con scams and “pig butchering” fraud
• 26:00 How attackers use LinkedIn and public data to target firms
• 30:00 Why firing the employee who clicked is the wrong response
• 33:00 The NIST Framework and the five pillars of cybersecurity
• 38:00 How EDR tools actually stop modern attacks
• 41:00 Business continuity, disaster recovery, and real downtime costs
• 45:00 The financial reality of cybersecurity investment
• 48:00 Why 40–60 percent of small firms never recover from breaches
• 50:00 Book recommendation and the role of culture in security
• 57:00 The first step every firm should take today
• 1:01:00 Final thoughts on leadership, responsibility, and action

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• This Is How They Tell Me the World Ends by Nicole Perlroth

Connect with Tom:

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/MVsyN0464ZM 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kirkhamirontech/ 
• Twitter: https://x.com/kirkhamirontech
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/51698665/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kirkhamirontech 
• https://www.kirkhamirontech.com 

Connect with me

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• Facebook
• Twitter
• Karin on Twitter
• Karin on LinkedIn
• Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
• https://conroycreativecounsel.com 

In this episode of Counsel Cast Chambers, we highlight our past conversation with Jeff Felton, an email marketing strategist, discussing the critical role of email marketing for law firms. Felton explains why nurturing segmented email lists through welcome flows and post-case follow-ups can significantly impact subscriber trust, client conversion, and long-term retention. 

He emphasizes that marketing should not stop after a client signs a contract but should continue to create loyal fans who generate referrals. The discussion also covers tactics for becoming a trusted thought leader and the effectiveness of newsletters and lead magnets in building an engaged email list.

Jeff gives listeners actionable tips on:

• 00:00 Introduction: The Hidden Cost of a Slow Website
• 00:05 Email Marketing as a Business Strategy
• 00:47 Common Mistakes in Email Marketing
• 01:37 Turning Clients into Raving Fans
• 02:26 Positioning Yourself as a Thought Leader
• 04:07 Building an Engaging Email List
• 06:33 The Value of Trust and Consistency
• 07:10 Conclusion: Establishing Yourself as a Trusted Leader

Connect with Jeff here:

• https://www.instagram.com/content.remedy/
• https://twitter.com/HeyJeffFelten
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-felten/
• http://www.contentremedy.co 

Connect with me

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• Facebook
• Twitter
• Karin on Twitter
• Karin on LinkedIn
• Conroy Creative Counsel on Facebook
• https://conroycreativecounsel.com