Counter Errorism

"So, did we fix it?" Ron, Ken, and James chat about trust and how that effects decision making. Sharp end decisions WILL be made, as leadership, do you want to be part of those decisions and if so, how much?

"Flips the script away from human frailty to human expertise"

"People are routinely overcoming challenges, difficulties, pressures, dilemmas; they're dealing with that all of the time, and they do it so well, they hide it - that's Dave Woods' Law of Fluency."

"Eventually, expertise is going to break down under certain pressures..."

"...the pressures or dilemmas are going to overwhelm that expertise, so how can we support people to leverage that expertise in a more effective way in those situations?"

So, how come you don't know Ron Gantt, yet?

Education:

Ph.D. Industrial and Systems Engineering, The Ohio State University

M.Eng Safety Engineering & Management, University of Alabama at Birmingham

contact him: [email protected]

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Part 1: Making people feel heard makes them feel empowered. 

Charles relishes the opportunity to remind us all of the importance of helping people feel heard and seen. Meeting Charles through LinkedIn has been a wonderful experience, and thought it would be wonderful to give you an insight into one of our conversations.  Charles and I have spoken a few times and we talk about our motivation for change and we think the "Root Cause" is a Dissatisfaction Attitude.  Beauty, family, immigration,  fear, culture, humility, and what makes us curious - it will get deep. When you meet Charles, you will learn, it's okay to get personal and let go of judgment.

As a leadership tool - I want to spend a day with you and be curious - I will let go of judgment and bias and be an open book with a focus on building our relationship and I will meet you where you are (physically and emotionally). 

At the 10 minute mark, the book Charles discusses is "Random Noise" by Georgina Poole and Sidney Dekker.

Part 2: Leadership Response Matters

Power and influence are mostly controlled by the leadership team, so after an event how we move forward will greatly depend on the leadership team. There is a unique opportunity following an incident where a leader can improve the relationship and level of trust - not just for those involved, but for anyone who finds out. 

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All about Gareth Lock. PLEASE check him out on LinkedIn here

Regarding the tool that Gareth recommends in this episode, you can get a copy of the DEBrIEF guide from: https://www.humaninthesystem.co.uk/hits-debrief-oi-2024

IMPORTANT NOTE: Gareth is certainly well established in the Diving niche, but he is ALSO opening up his content and efforts into ANY organization wanting training or other consultative services.  He's an amazing instructor and content creator, and is someone you just know is bound for even more success. 

New addition to the CE podcast: Transitions between a few places

New problem: Used a new tool for recording called "Otter" and it seriously affected the audio quality in places - We had to make 145 separate edit points to get it at the level where it is now. We hope it's difficult for listeners to tell. Lesson learned: We will NOT be using Otter in the future.

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Fun fact - you may not know  Steve recently took up boxing as a positive and fun way to exercise and every inch of him was hurting when he sat down with us to record. Steve is another CHOLearning.org buddy Ken and I met this year and didn't nearly get to spend enough time with him, and this won't be the only time we chat with him with the microphone recording. He has a wonderful sense of humor and a genuine humility when it comes to talking about how nervous he was before getting on stage (at CHOL) and adding a whole segment on HOP and why humor is important. If you're an American (like me), that loves awesome accents and dialects, you're in for a treat!

It's fun to be the "weird safety guy"!

New KPI suggestion: How many Christmas parties do you get invited to?

From Ken: Has anybody asked if the workers even know what they did was a violation? This could be a different starting point.

Recipe for an awesome chat:

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How can we speed up causal analysis when rapid turnaround is imperative?

For example,  a model for a story of "a damage event" or "a spill occurred" or "machine outage"

Details for a starting point to understand the fault path, recovery time, expertise, validation etc.

After Brian discusses the methodology, we continue to chat about causal analysis, including a little about developing effective Corrective Actions,  the problem statement, Extent of Cause and Extent of Condition, and a cool tool called CARB (Corrective Action Review Board).

Heads up that this is our longest episode so far, but I didn't want you to miss all of the extra RCA info we chatted about in case you're in that space and were curious to hear it. 

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Please email us to set up an interview, ask follow-up questions, or to provide feedback: [email protected]

We hope you like the podcast and welcome any advice you have for us as we launch this journey.

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Jon, Ken and James speak candidly about the latest wave of awesomeness to hit a lot of places for the first time: Learning Teams

Using respectful inquiry by examining normal work. They can be used to improve anything: Jon uses an example of "pulling overhang".

Post incident review of normal work being done. Investigate differently. Not easy to do this, because of the culturally steeped traditional ways of performing incidents reviews. Learning Teams are the best way to learn from each other with people who share the same goal.

Great learning team starters:

Hidden engagement benefit: People generally like to be asked questions about the things that they do, especially when you ask "How are you successful?"

Some other places use a "Pre-event" Learning Team style. You can get a better product or efficiency of a process. Constant learning at the right levels.

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Structured learning (aka Story learning - asking questions) is an amazing way to share with others different perspectives from the same event or point of time.

Simplified and not overly-complicated example of story learning:

An element of irony is in the background of this episode - Ken IS here (there is at least one random cough) with Ben and James and he is showing James how to STFU when Ben is dropping some serious wisdom. 

Ben Goodheart (Punk Rock Safety Podcast co-host, and Founder/Primary Consultant of Magpie Human Systems) shares a true GPS story of a pilot managing a challenge and how structured learning opened eyes to what actually happened.

[Because it came up, in case you are very curious and want to follow up on the "Stoics" and "Marcus Aurelius" click here (and you're kind of a nerd if you do this)... as a matter of fact, you're probably a nerd if you're actually reading this right now... however, no worries, nerds rule the world my friend!!!]

In the end of this episode, Ben reminds us that operationalizing curiosity is about learning how to ask questions better and certainty is the enemy of...

Ken and James have a couple dozen people they would like to thank, starting with their families and the CHOL Superstars they frequently meet with to challenge, support, and improve ourselves. These following people are the amazing CHOL Superstar crew that regularly show us love, support, and help out when needed. We HIGHLY recommend their talents, and you can consider yourself lucky to know any of them! Please find them on LinkedIn and connect with these game-changers:

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Ken Madson and James Newman have been wanting to collaborate on a podcast for quite some time and what is here and what will follow are the results of that desire! They hope you like it. They certainly don't have it all figured out, yet, but  figured they would jump in before another month goes by, so here goes. 

The number one goal of this podcast is to be a beacon on the horizon and direct H&OP Practitioners to implement things that have worked. Does that seem too simple? We shall see!

This episode we grabbed some of Tony Muschara's precious time and he gave us some nuggets to consider around one of his favorite topics and ours, Critical Steps. If you manage them properly, it sure seems like a lot of other issues will take care of themselves, as well. 

Ken and James have a couple dozen people they would like to thank, starting with their families and the CHOL Superstars they frequently meet with to challenge, support, and improve ourselves. 

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