Crackers and Grape Juice

This is Jason speaking... As a Christian, I've never understood the hang-up and/or obsession some Christians have regarding gay Christians. Maybe it's my age. Maybe it's because my first teacher- after my having just become a Christian- was Dr. Gene Rogers, who introduced me to Karl Barth and Thomas Aquinas and who happened to be gay. As a pastor, I'm both exhausted by the sexuality debate and heartsick over its many victims-- often anonymous, suffering in the pews.

For all these reasons, it's a privilege to have Sally Gary as our guest for episode #308 to discuss her work with CenterPeace and her new book, Affirming: A Memoir of Faith, Sexuality, and Staying in the Church.

Here's the blurb from Amazon:

What is it like to discover that something you’ve believed all your life might be wrong?

Sally Gary knew since her early adulthood that she was attracted to women. But as a devoted Christian, she felt there was no way to fully embrace this aspect of her identity while remaining faithful. Now, as she prepares to marry the love of her life, she’s ready to speak out about why—and how—her perspective changed.

In this deeply personal memoir, Sally traces the experiences, conversations, and scriptural reading that culminated in her seeing her sexuality as something that made sense within the context of her faith—not outside of it or in opposition to it. Along the way, she addresses specific aspects of her journey that will resonate with many other gay Christians: the loneliness and isolation of her previously celibate life, the futile attempts she made to resist or even “change” her sexual orientation, and the fear of intimacy that followed a lifetime of believing same-sex relationships were sinful.

Sally’s story—one of heritage, learning, courage, and love—is written especially for the generations of LGBTQ Christians after her who are questioning whether they can stay part of the church they call home. It’s a resounding reminder that, just like Sally’s own heart, things can change, and sometimes, when we earnestly search for the truth, we find it in the most unexpected places.

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“We’ve got a list of questions, issues, stuff we’re dealing with. We want your input, your thoughts on this stuff.” Such were the origins of this little book. Two young clergy, early in their first call, imagined that I might have some useful wisdom to pass on based on my own years in ministry. Something like this was once standard preparation. Young people learned a profession like law, ministry, or medicine by apprenticing themselves to one seasoned in the practice. Not only has that way of learning largely vanished but we now live in times of increasing segregation and suspicion between different generations. Still, these two millennials bucked the trends. They thought they might have something to learn from an old boomer. The result is this collection of letters: personal, wry, direct, and honest. Full of both hope and realism about the church and ministry. This collection will be a welcome companion for young, and for many not so young, clergy trying to get a handle on ministry in the midst of a time that is full of change and challenge.

Anthony B. Robinson has a ministry and writings that have spoken wisely and helpfully to thousands of clergy and hundreds of congregations. He is an ordained minister of the United Church of Christ, who has served four congregations, consulted with scores of congregations and their leaders, and taught in several different seminaries. He is the author of a dozen books including the best-seller Transforming Congregational Culture and the award-winning What's Theology Got To Do with It?

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Our guest for this episode is Gerald Bray, whose new book is Anglicanism: A Reformed Catholic Tradition.

Gerald Bray (DLitt, University of Paris-Sorbonne) is Research Professor at Beeson Divinity School and Director of Research for the Latimer Trust. He is a prolific writer and has authored or edited numerous books, including The Doctrine of God and Biblical Interpretation: Past and Present.

What is Anglicanism?

There are many associations that come to mind. Whether it is the buildings, the unique history, the prayers, or church government, often we emphasize one aspect against others. Is the Anglican church a Protestant church with distinctive characteristics, or a Catholic Church no longer in communion with Rome?

In Anglicanism: A Reformed Catholic Tradition, Gerald Bray argues that some theological trajectories are more faithful than others to the nature and history of the Church of England. Readers looking to understand the diversity, nature, and future of Anglicanism will be helped by Bray's historical examination.

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Kurt Willems joins the pod to share his new book Echoing Hope: How the Humanity of Jesus Redeems Our Pain.

None of us live free of difficulties or hardships. But how can we learn to live richly in the midst of them? And ever grow spiritually because of them? The answer is found in the hopeful humanity of Jesus.

Echoing Hope reveals how understanding the humanity of Jesus can radically transform our identity and empower us to step into our pain-filled world in a new way. Combining rich theological insight with personal stories and practices for response, learn how we can overcome despair and encounter the beautiful potential of our lives.

Friend and mentor Pastor Brian Zahnd said, “Without resorting to worn-out clichés, Kurt Willems walks the reader through the problem of pain with the mind of a theologian and the heart of a pastor. This book will help many people.”

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For eight years, Ellie Holcomb recorded and toured full-time with her husband’s band, Drew Holcomb and The Neighbors, before stepping off the road when her first child was born. Her solo debut, As Sure As The Sun (2014), landed her a Top 10 hit at Christian radio with “The Broken Beautiful” and a GMA Dove Award for “New Artist of the Year.” Her critically-acclaimed sophomore LP, Red Sea Road, followed in 2017. In subsequent years, Holcomb has released two children’s books—each with a companion EP of original music written specifically for kids, the second of which earned her a Dove Award for “Children’s Album of the Year” in 2020. She’s consistently writing, touring and performing while raising three kids with Drew in her hometown of Nashville, Tennessee. (They’ve been dancing in the kitchen to the new songs on C A N Y O N, and she can’t wait to share them with the world.)

Ellie has performed with Third Day, MercyMe, Steven Curtis Chapman, Amy Grant, Chris Tomlin, and more. She joins the podcast today to talk about faith, writing, and her new solo album, Canyons, due out 6/25.

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Richard Stearns is a leader who has been tested as a CEO in both secular companies and also as the head of one of the world’s largest Christian ministries. After stints as CEO of Parker Brothers and then Lenox, Stearns accepted the invitation to leave his corporate career to become the president of World Vision US, where he became the longest serving president in their seventy-year history. During his tenure there he implemented corporate best practices, lowering overheads while tripling revenues. His leadership in calling the American church to respond to some of the greatest crises of our time, notably the HIV and AIDS pandemic, and the global refugee crisis, challenged Christians to embrace a bold vision for compassion, mercy, and justice. In Lead Like It Matters to God, Stearns shares the leadership principles he has learned over the course of his remarkable career. As a leader who has navigated both secular and sacred spaces, Stearns claims that the values Christian leaders embrace in their workplaces are actually more important than the results they achieve―that God is more concerned about a leader's character than a leader's success. With wisdom, wit, and biblical teaching, Stearns shares captivating stories of his life journey and unpacks seventeen crucial values that can transform leaders and their organizations. When leaders embody values such as integrity, courage, excellence, forgiveness, humility, surrender, balance, generosity, perseverance, love, and encouragement, they not only improve their witness for Christ, they also shape institutions, influence culture, improve team performance, and create healthy workplaces where people can flourish. Through this book, Stearns will inspire a new generation of Christian leaders to boldly take their values into their workplaces to tangibly demonstrate the character of Christ, the love of Christ, and the truth of Christ as they live out their faith in full view of others.

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Tim Gombis joins the pod to talk about his newest book, 'Power in Weakness: Paul’s Transformed Vision for Ministry.' Tim and Teer explore a model for church leadership as old as Paul's letter to the Romans.

From the publisher:
After Paul’s encounter with the risen Christ on the road to Damascus, he turned from coercion and violence to a ministry centered on the hope of Christ’s resurrection. In earthly terms, Paul had traded power for weakness. But—as he explained in his subsequent letters—this “weakness” was actually the key to flourishing community that is able to experience God’s transformation, restoration, and healing. What would it mean for pastors today to take seriously Paul’s exhortation in 1 Corinthians 11:1 to “imitate me as I imitate Christ” and lead their congregations in this way?

Instead of drawing leadership principles and practices from the worlds of business, education, and politics—which tend to orient churches around institutional power and image maintenance—Timothy Gombis follows Paul in resisting the influence of the “present evil age” by making cruciformity the operating principle of the church. Gombis guides the reader through practices and patterns that can lead a congregation past a focus on individual salvation, toward becoming instead a site of resurrection power on earth.
https://www.eerdmans.com/Products/7125/power-in-weakness.aspx

Before you listen, do us a solid and help out the podcast.

Head over to http://www.crackersandgrapejuice.com.

Click on “Support the Show.”

Become a patron.

For peanuts you can help us out....we appreciate it more than you can imagine.

Follow us on the three-majors of social media:

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“My vocation was supposed to be joy, and I was speaking at funerals.”

Shortly after being hired by Yale University to study joy, Angela Gorrell got word that a close family member had died by suicide. Less than a month later, she lost her father to a fatal opioid addiction and her nephew, only twenty-two years old, to sudden cardiac arrest. The theoretical joy she was researching at Yale suddenly felt shallow and distant—completely unattainable in the fog of grief she now found herself in.

But joy was closer at hand than it seemed. As she began volunteering at a women’s maximum-security prison, she met people who suffered extensively yet still showed a tremendous capacity for joy. Talking with these women, many of whom had struggled with addiction and suicidal thoughts themselves, she realized: “Joy doesn’t obliterate grief. . . . Instead, joy has a mysterious capacity to be felt alongside sorrow and even—sometimes most especially—in the midst of suffering.”

This is the story of Angela’s discovery of an authentic, grounded Christian joy. But even more, it is an invitation for others to seize upon this more resilient joy as a counteragent to the twenty-first-century epidemics of despair, addiction, and suicide—a call to action for communities that yearn to find joy and are willing to “walk together through the shadows” to find it.

Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell joined Baylor's George W. Truett Theological Seminaryin fall 2019 as Assistant Professor of Practical Theology. Prior to joining the faculty at Baylor University, she was an Associate Research Scholar at the Yale Center for Faith & Culture, working on the Theology of Joy and the Good Life Project, and a lecturer in Divinity and Humanities at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut. She is an ordained pastor with 14 years of ministry experience. Dr. Gorrell is passionate about finding issues that matter to people and shining the light of the Gospel on them. She is the author of always on: practicing faith in a new media landscape and a new book, The Gravity of Joy: A Story of Being Lost and Found, which shares findings of the joy project while addressing America’s opioid and suicide crises. Dr. Gorrell’s expertise is in the areas of theology and contemporary culture, education and formation, meaning-making, joy, new media, and youth and emerging adults. Dr. Gorrell regularly consults, speaks, and leads workshops and retreats on her research and areas of expertise.

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Brian Zahnd is the founding pastor of Word of Life Church in St. Joseph, Missouri. He's also the author of many wonderful books, including, Water into Wine, Beauty Will Save the World, and most recently, Unvarnished Jesus. Brian was our first guest five years ago so we invited him to join us for our 300th episode. He talks about his incredibly successful Prayer School, his upcoming corollary, How I Read the Bible, and how the Church muddles through the post-Trump years.

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Dr, De La Torre joins the podcast to talk about his latest book, 'Decolonizing Christianity: Decolonizing Christianity: Becoming Badass Believers.'

In the interview, Dr. Del La Torre talks about his life in America as an immigrant, makes clear that it is not his job to fix that which White Christians have done, and even disagrees with Stanley Hauerwas.

For more information on Dr. De La Torre, visit his website at: www.drmigueldelatorre.com
or check out his blog at http://ourlucha.wordpress.com/

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Before you listen, do us a solid and help out the podcast.

Head over to http://www.crackersandgrapejuice.com.

Click on “Support the Show.”

Become a patron.

For peanuts you can help us out....we appreciate it more than you can imagine.

Follow us on the three-majors of social media:

https://www.facebook.com/crackersnjuice

https://twitter.com/crackersnjuice

https://www.instagram.com/crackersandgrapejuice

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit crackersnjuice.substack.com/subscribe