Dads With Daughters w/ Dr. Christopher Lewis

This week on the Dads with Daughters podcast, we had the pleasure of sitting down with Efrem Martin, a dedicated father of four daughters and a passionate advocate for intentional fatherhood. In this engaging discussion, Efrem shared his personal journey, the unique challenges he faced, and his inspiration behind writing his book, "Daddy's Girl's: A Father's How-to in Building Lifelong Relationships with our Daughter's," and starting the Girl Dad YouTube channel. Here are some profound insights from their conversation.

The Beginning of Efrem Martin's Fatherhood Journey

One of the key moments in Efrem's life was discovering that he would become a father to a daughter for the first time. Reflecting on that time, Efrem admitted to feeling a mix of nervousness and excitement. As a young man of 23 and a Marine transitioning into civilian life, he was embarking on a monumental chapter in his life.

Despite some initial fears, Efrem expressed a unique perspective: he always wanted daughters because he believed they would make him a better man. He credited his upbringing, particularly being raised by a nurturing mother in a single-parent household after the tragic loss of his father, with preparing him for this role. He drew strength and inspiration from his mother's unwavering support and the exemplary male figures—his uncles, cousins, and coaches—who stepped in to mentor him.

Overcoming Adversity and Becoming a Role Model

Efrem's father was murdered when Efrem was only two years old, fundamentally shaping his upbringing. Though he grew up without a father, Efrem found guidance in other male role models, like his coaches, who treated him like their own son. These experiences instilled in him the importance of having strong, positive male influences and reinforced his commitment to being an involved and supportive dad.

Having worked for 20 years in the criminal justice system and 10 years in K-12 education, Efrem witnessed firsthand the detrimental effects of the criminal justice system on children and families. This professional backdrop fueled his determination to ensure his daughters stayed out of the system and thrived in a safe, nurturing environment.

Efrem Martin's Philosophy: Raising Free Thinkers

Efrem's approach to fatherhood extends beyond mere presence; it is about fostering independence and critical thinking in his daughters. He emphasized the importance of raising his girls to be free thinkers rather than focusing solely on independence. By encouraging them to challenge the world around them and question everything, Efrem prepared his daughters to navigate life with self-awareness and confidence.

This philosophy is encapsulated in his self-published book, "Daddy's Girls," where he outlines the stages of development from birth to adulthood. Additionally, his Grow Dat YouTube channel serves as a platform to further elaborate on these concepts, providing fathers with data-driven insights, visual aids, and practical guidance on raising daughters.

The Grow Dat YouTube Channel: Fostering a Community of Learning

Launched in July 2023, Efrem's Grow Dat YouTube channel is a treasure trove of wisdom and support for fathers. With over 55 livestreams covering diverse topics, Efrem draws from his extensive experience and professional background to offer valuable content. His goal is not to amass a large following but to attract the right audience—fathers genuinely seeking to improve their parenting skills.

Unlike other platforms, Efrem's channel delves into deeper, more complex issues of fatherhood, leveraging his knowledge in criminal justice and education to provide context and solutions. His dedication to building this community organically reflects his commitment to authenticity and meaningful engagement.

Looking Ahead: A Vision for Greater Engagement

Efrem has ambitious plans for the future of Grow Dat. Starting in 2025, he aims to transform the channel into a more interactive space, featuring one-on-one engagements with fathers. He believes that real-time conversations and shared experiences can enrich the learning process for everyone involved. By fostering a supportive network of dads, Efrem hopes to create a space where fathers can share their struggles, triumphs, and insights in raising daughters.

Conclusion: Consistency as the Cornerstone

Towards the end of the podcast, Efrem shared his core advice for fathers: be consistent. Consistency, he believes, is the foundation of effective parenting. It provides daughters with a sense of security, allowing them to grow into confident, independent, and thoughtful individuals.

Efrem Martin's journey and insights remind us that fatherhood is a profound and ongoing adventure. Through his book, his YouTube channel, and his unwavering dedication, Efrem continues to inspire fathers to embrace their roles with commitment, compassion, and a desire for continuous growth.

For more about Efrem Martin, his book "Daddy's Girls," and the Grow Dat YouTube channel, visit his channels and social media as outlined in the podcast episode. Remember, as fathers, we have the power to shape the next generation, one loving, consistent day at a time.

TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript created with CASTMAGIC_

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast where we bring you guests to help you be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, I love being able to be on this journey with you, an opportunity to be able to talk every week and be able to work through what it means to be a dad to a daughter. And the biggest thing that I keep telling you over and over again is that being a father to a daughter is not always going to be the easiest, but you don't have to do this alone. And that's the thing that is most important is that you show up every week. You show up not only for your daughters, but show up for this. And you and you can hear from other dads, other people that have resources and things that you can do day in, day out to be that engaged dad that you wanna be. That's why this podcast exists.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:09]: It exists to help you to be able to be the dad you wanna be and help you raise those strong, independent women that you want your daughters to be. This week, we got another great guest with us today. Efrem Martin is with us today, and Efrem is a father of 4 girls and owner of the Girl Dad YouTube Channel. And we're going to talk about his own journey in being a dad, but also some things that he's doing to be able to help dads just like you to be those girl dads that they want to be as well. So I'm really excited to have him with us today. Efrem, thanks so much for being here today.

Efrem Martin [00:01:41]: Thank you for having me, sir. Appreciate you. Appreciate you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:44]: Well, I really appreciate you being here today. And the first and and and first and foremost, one of the things that I love doing is turning the clock back in time. I wanna go all the way back. I know your oldest is 36, so I wanna go all the way back. It might be 36 years, might be 35 years, but we're gonna go all the way back to that first moment that you found out that you were going to be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Efrem Martin [00:02:05]: It was crazy. Nervous, excited, just all the above. And baby girls, they change your world. They change your life. So it was, I was young, 23. So very excited, though. Very excited.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:17]: Now I talk to a lot of dads, and a lot of dads step into fatherhood and they're a little scared. Not only being scared of being a father, but when you put on that extra layer of being a father to a daughter, there's some additional fear. What would you say was your biggest fear in raising daughters?

Efrem Martin [00:02:35]: I think for me, just getting out of the marine corps, I was, you know, I was in the United States Marine Corps and, transitioning out and just being young, just getting my life in order, just planning and trying to understand exactly the direction I was gonna go, getting into school, making sure I got my bachelor's degree, and just planning out my life more than anything else. So that in itself was nervous for me, but I knew I was gonna be a good dad. I wasn't so much worried about that. It was just, it was exciting more than anything else. And, just looking forward to the, challenge because I actually if you believe me or not, I actually wanted daughters because I knew that they would make me a better man.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:16]: So when you say that you knew that being a father to a daughter would make you a better man, talk to me about that. What was it about being a father to a daughter that made you feel that way?

Efrem Martin [00:03:27]: Being raised, I came from a single parent household because my father was murdered when I was 2. Okay? So being raised without a father myself and having this incredible mother, My mother was the most nurturing, incredible woman. So getting everything from her, she couldn't teach me how to be a man, but she was just such a nurturer, and she was very attentive. So I got a lot of great qualities from her. And like I said, I didn't have my my father, but I always had my uncles. I had my first cousins. I had my brothers. So I always had good men in my life.

Efrem Martin [00:04:00]: I've never been taken advantage of as I was never taken advantage of as a child, as a kid, and my community embraced me as a as a child. So I always had good men in my life. And all the men in my life, even though I didn't have a father, they were all married. So they had their own children. And that was my experience. I wasn't exposed to a lot of single parents in my life. So not having a father, I didn't really know what to expect because I didn't have a man to guide me, but I knew that I had it in me to be this good father to a baby girl. And like I said, having my mother, I've been around my aunts my whole life, my sisters.

Efrem Martin [00:04:37]: I I'm the youngest of of of 5. So being the baby, my sisters will tell you I got over, but I don't think so. I just think I was smarter because my mom was tired by the time she got to me. But I was a good kid, so I never gave my mom any any problems. I was an athlete my entire life. And so I don't think you're ever ready, but coming out of the marine corps, I had a lot more focus. I was very well disciplined, and I wasn't really, really concerned. I was I was looking forward to the journey more than anything else.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:05]: So talk to me about the fact that you just mentioned with your father getting murdered at such an young age for you and not having a father in that way in your life. You had other male role models, other people in your life. How did that impact you as you grew up and moved into fatherhood to be able to be the dad that you wanted to be even though you didn't have that father figure per se in your life?

Efrem Martin [00:05:32]: Okay. So for me, because I was an athlete, I played sports year round. So all my coaches, they were married, and they had their own children. So I had good men in my life that I was able to watch how they interacted with their children. And that was major for me. It was, it impacted my life because I was just one of very few boys that didn't have a father. Everyone else around me had their dads. People ask me, do you think you lost out on anything? Absolutely.

Efrem Martin [00:05:58]: I think I lost out on a lot, but I never focused on that because I was so busy. And like I said, the men that I had access to, a Latino man in my life, a white man in my life, and I had these men in my life. I didn't have a lot of well, the black men I had in my life, they were my uncles. I grew up in a community back in the seventies. It was the Chicano community, so they were all Latin men, Latinos. So all my coaches, they were either Latino or white men, but they were good men. So as a kid, that's what I focused on, and they were just good to me. And they treated me like their own.

Efrem Martin [00:06:31]: So I think what I came to understand as I got older was that you need good men in your life. And as long as you have good men in your life, you're pretty much capable of everything.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:42]: Now raising kids is not always easy. There are definite positive times and hard times as well. As you look back at the years of raising your daughters into the women that they've become today, what was the hardest part in being a father to a daughter?

Efrem Martin [00:06:59]: You know, I have a totally different skill set because I worked in the criminal justice system for 20 years, and then I worked in k 12 education for 10 years. So I worked with children for 30 years. So my difficulty was making sure that they didn't end up in the criminal justice system, and I had examples on what not to do. So I was able to maneuver a lot differently. I didn't have a lot of the challenges, I believe, that a lot of fathers were going to experience because being a state juvenile probation officer and working with these these children that were adjudicated and just seeing families get messed over by the criminal justice system, I just knew this was not gonna be my children. So I learned early in my career that I have to have hope and I have to believe that if something was to happen to me, that there's going to be good adults out there that would step in and make sure that my daughters were taken care of like I was taking care of these children. So I wasn't really I just had a different sense of urgency, and the criminal justice system just it's not good for kids. So that kept me that kept me focused because what I was dealing with every day as a state juvenile probation officer and just seeing how kids got messed over, not my daughters.

Efrem Martin [00:08:14]: There's no way. And I wasn't going to invite the government into my life. I was not ever going to allow the government to have a say in the rearing of my children because when you do that, the more the government gets involved, the more say they have, the more adults that are involved. Your voice isn't heard as a parent. So my YouTube channel, Grow Dat YouTube channel, what I do is with my live streams and my videos is is I go a lot deeper, and I'm able to explain, I believe, all the stages of development. My book Daddy's Girls, I cover 3 stages of development, birth to 10 years of age, 11 to 13, and 14 to 18. And I explain in my book the sense of urgency that fathers need to have in order to build long term sustainable relationships with their daughters, with their baby girls. So this is my way of giving back.

Efrem Martin [00:09:04]: All my daughters are adults. They're out of the house, and I just wanna see all fathers do well with their children regardless of their ethnic group background and or culture. So this is why I decided to launch my YouTube channel.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:19]: So let's talk about what you are creating, what you have created, the book that you've put out there. As an author myself, I know there's a lot of passion that has to go into being able to get through the writing of a book. And you mentioned the self published book that you put out there, Daddy's Girls, that's now available on Amazon that that you've written. Talk to me about the inception of that and what made you decide that you wanted to put the time, the effort, the passion into writing it, but also trying to get it out into the world for others to read and to learn from and grow from.

Efrem Martin [00:09:50]: So I already knew when when my youngest daughter, Cheyenne, got to high school in 2014, it was just her I had her and my daughter, Zuri. They were the last 2. And Zuri was gonna be graduating in 2016. Cheyenne was going to be graduating in 2018. I decided in 2014, once Cheyenne graduates, I was going to write my book. I wanted to get them through all the stages so I could have a little bit more substance in my explanation. Having the background that I have working in the criminal justice system in K-twelve education, I was a teacher, restorative justice coordinator, and dean of students. So having the background of working on the back end of the criminal justice system and the front end of k 12 education, I just believe I could I would be able to explain to fathers what's coming.

Efrem Martin [00:10:35]: I don't tell fathers how to raise their children, their baby girls. What I explain to fathers is this is what's coming. And I believe that I could lay a framework of understanding so they have a better understanding of what's coming with their daughters. Daughters are very, very complex, as you know. You have a daughter. You have daughters. Daughters are very complex because they're going to have emotional highs and emotional lows. And understanding the different stages of development, I wish I had somebody like me when I was raising my daughters because it would have helped explain a lot of different things.

Efrem Martin [00:11:08]: YouTube was it came to the forefront around 2,005. So by 2010, my girls were pretty much they were not grown girls, but they were well on their way. The book itself is very complimentary of my YouTube channel, of my live streams, and my videos. And like I said, I just believe that I'm able to go a lot deeper. There are other YouTube channels that are out there that are that are dealing with fathers of daughters. Most of them are normally dealing with daughters under 10 years of age, and they're amazing. I get to go a lot deeper, I believe, because of my professional experience as well as my experience as a father and living it every day. And all my girls are grown, and they're amazing women.

Efrem Martin [00:11:55]: So I'm able to explain, I believe, a lot of things for fathers and save them a lot of steps. And I just look forward to the engagement because I'm very interested where fathers are at at the different stages and how I can help them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:07]: So you went from having this book to, as you were talking about, creating this YouTube page to, again, try to get some of your messaging out. What kind of response have you been getting to not only the book, but the YouTube channel and trying to and what are you trying to mostly share, and what are you hoping that people are gonna take away from reading the book or watching your videos that you're putting out into the world?

Efrem Martin [00:12:29]: Well, I'm big on engagement, and the purpose of my YouTube channel is to get engagement because I know fathers are busy. I believe that my engagement has been well. I the book is doing well, and the YouTube channel, I'm building it organically. Now I could go a whole different direction with my YouTube channel and have 10,000 subscribers or 20,000 subscribers. I'm not interested in having a lot of subscribers. I'm interested in having the right subscribers. And YouTube is very YouTube I'm learning a lot from YouTube. It's very interesting, the dynamics of YouTube, the space of YouTube.

Efrem Martin [00:13:05]: So I'm learning a lot from YouTube. And my overall goal, like I said, is to help fathers understand our sense of urgency. So I believe the engagement has been amazing. I don't get a lot of comments because I think fathers there's a lot of fathers. I just think they're nervous. And we're men. Right? And a lot of men, we're just not sure. And so this great content I'm putting out, it's in the hands of fathers.

Efrem Martin [00:13:28]: I'm going to eventually get my audience. It's coming. And I just I'm ready. To date, I've done 55 livestreams since, July of 2023, so I'm I'm consistent. And in 2025, I'm gonna change things up a little bit. I wanna have more of an engagement type channel. So it's going in stages, but I'm happy that I'm able to do a livestream every week, use data statistics, use visual aids videos, and share. So the fathers that come across my YouTube channel, I can help them, and they'll eventually we're we're gonna eventually connect.

Efrem Martin [00:14:02]: Right now, I have about 802 subscribers. So like I said, building organically, I won't do it any other way. Oh, so as a author, self published. I self published my book in February of 2020, and then the pandemic happened in March. So for 2 years, there wasn't anything I could do. And I I really even though my book was out there, I really just wanted to take this opportunity and just wait until the pandemic was over because the pandemic just it changed the world. And although my book was brand new, I didn't really wanna bother fathers because the world was just dealing with too much. So I figured, you know what? Let me wait.

Efrem Martin [00:14:43]: It took a couple years, so I figured, hey, July of 2023, let me start this YouTube channel. My book's already self published. It's out there. It's time. So I was excited about that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:53]: So you said that you're changing things up in 2025 and or 2024, 2025. Talk to me about what's next. What's changing? You know, where are you going from here?

Efrem Martin [00:15:04]: So when you look at my videos now, what I typically do is I give commentary on my experience, and I connect videos with the topics. I have 55 livestreams, 55 different topics, which is very difficult to do, very difficult to do. So I rely a lot on my experience as a as a state juvenile probation officer and working in k twelve education. That's where I draw a lot of my topics as far as being able to go deeper. And visual aids, I know fathers, they have a lot of questions. They have a lot of concerns. But I believe that the visual aids will help them. And YouTube has everything.

Efrem Martin [00:15:40]: If you can't find it on YouTube, you can't find it. So that's where I'm currently at. And and what I wanna transition into in 2025 is having more of a 1 on 1 like you and I are having right now. That's what I'm interested in. I want more engagement from from different fathers. I I wanna I wanna hear their feedback. I wanna I wanna hear their how they're thinking, how they're feeling. Because there's a lot of fathers out there that have a lot of great ideas, and and I think that they could bring a lot to the table as as far as their own personal experiences of of fathers because we're all at different stages in our lives.

Efrem Martin [00:16:11]: Like I said, all my daughters are adults, so I no longer have them at home. So I'm at a totally different stage, and I just believe that that type of engagement on screen, I just think that it it it'll take it to a whole different level. And that's what I'm excited about that. But like I said, I've been building my capacity, and I think I'm doing well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:29]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready? Sure. Absolutely. In one word, what is fatherhood? Consistency. When was the time that you felt like you finally succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Efrem Martin [00:16:44]: Once they all graduated from high school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:46]: Now if I were to talk to your girls, how would they describe you as a dad?

Efrem Martin [00:16:50]: My girls, what how would they describe me? Totally laid back. They'll tell you I'm the best father in the world. Great listener, consistent, understanding, passionate, attentive, just a great human being.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:02]: Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Efrem Martin [00:17:04]: My inspiration comes from other fathers, actually, and just seeing how they're doing things with their baby girls. Because like I said, my experience is my experience. So I'm always looking at other fathers and how how they're moving and how they're maneuvering in the world and getting it done. That that excites me because it I'm gen x. Right? So millennials and and Gen z, they do things totally different. So that excites me. I'm interested in that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:29]: Now you've given a number of pieces of advice today. You've talked about some of the experiences that you had in raising your daughters. As you think about all dads that are out there and as we finish up today, what's one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Efrem Martin [00:17:43]: One piece of advice I would give to fathers, this is my first statement that you ask me, consistency. As long as you're consistent, your baby girls are gonna be fine. It's the consistency that I believe that allows us to provide that protection and safety and allows our daughters to grow. When we talk about the independence of our daughters, I didn't raise my daughters to be independent. I raised my daughters to be free thinkers. And the reason I did that was because I wanted them to challenge the world and have an open enough mind to be able to question everything. So I took a different path. I raised them to be free thinkers.

Efrem Martin [00:18:20]: They are definitely free thinkers, just like their father, which I believe allows them to embrace all of humanity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:26]: Now, if people want to find out more about you, your book, your where's the best place for them to go to be able to find out more?

Efrem Martin [00:18:33]: Definitely. You can find my YouTube channel at Girl Dad YouTube channel. It's on YouTube. I'm also on rubo.rumbo.com.martineframb, that's myrumbo.com. My book is available at amazon.com. You can get that directly through Amazon dotcom. Also, it's, available through my YouTube channel. It's always in it's in the description on of each of my, live streams and my videos.

Efrem Martin [00:19:00]: So that's the best way to get a hold of me. I'm on Facebook. I'm on TikTok. I'm on Instagram. I'm on Twitter. So I use technology to my advantage. I've always been on the forefront of technology. I love technology.

Efrem Martin [00:19:14]: I love young people and and seeing how they move with technology. So I'm on the forefront of technology. So that's how you can find me. But my YouTube channel, I'm very proud of it. Grow Dad YouTube channel.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:27]: Well, I just wanna say thank you so much for being here today, for sharing your story, for work that you're doing to help other dads, and I truly wish you all the best.

Efrem Martin [00:19:36]: No. I appreciate you. And eventually, I'm going to bring you on to my YouTube channel because I think it would be good. And like I said, I appreciate connecting with you. So thank you for your time, sir. Appreciate you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:50]: If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together dot org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week all geared to helping you raise strong and powered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:48]: We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Blast calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen.

Get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

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In this week's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Ryan Senters, a dedicated father of two biological children and nine adopted kids, who also runs a nonprofit, called Ohana, providing housing and support for foster children. We discussed the joys and fears of fatherhood, the challenges of raising daughters, and the importance of being intentional in parenting.

The First Steps of Fatherhood Finding Out You're Going to Be a Dad

Recalling the moment he found out he was going to be a father to his first daughter, Brooklyn, Ryan Senters felt a wave of excitement and a profound sense of responsibility. He and his wife had been trying to conceive for two years, making the news even more special. Ryan described feeling the urgency to "get this right," a sentiment many new fathers can relate to.

"When we found out that I was gonna have our daughter, Brooklyn, just yeah. Sure excitement and a sense of, like, probably responsibility of, like, oh, jeez. I gotta take this serious here. I gotta make sure that I do this right." — Dr. Ryan Senters

Overcoming Fears

Many fathers admit to feeling a unique set of fears when they learn they're expecting a daughter. Ryan was no different, expressing anxiety about being present and doing everything "right," especially since he lacked a paternal role model growing up. He noted the irrationality of some of these fears but acknowledged how they shaped his approach to fatherhood.

"I was just worried that I needed to make sure that I know it's not a right way, but in my head, I was very thick. I had this fixed mindset. I would needed to get this right." — Dr. Ryan Senters

The Challenges of Raising Daughters Being a Role Model

One of Ryan's significant concerns was modeling the kind of man he wanted his daughters to value in their future. He emphasized the importance of being intentionally present, not just for his daughters but also for his wife, to set a positive example. His daughters, one biological and one adopted, keep looking to him for wisdom and guidance.

"They deserve to be independent and helping them develop self-confidence. They need to have a dad in their corner that's cheering them on and an example to what it means to have a man in their life." — Dr. Ryan Senters

Balancing Life and Responsibilities

As a busy professional and father of many, Ryan discussed the concept of balance. He highlighted the seasonality of responsibilities and stressed the importance of mental reset techniques, like the photo in his garage that reminds him of his primary job when entering his home. Ryan advocates for being an "intentional father" rather than just a "present" one, incorporating activities like tech-free Sundays to foster family bonds.

The Adoption Journey Deciding to Adopt

Ryan and his wife always felt a calling towards fostering and adopting children. They opened their home to numerous children over 15 years, offering them a loving and stable environment. Ryan shared touching stories about his adopted children, like his daughter Pima, who struggled with her past but found strength and identity within their family.

"We have this mantra in our family: you are strong, you are brave, and you are kind. And so when she gets that, you are so strong... That's a big moment for us." — Dr. Ryan Senters

Expanding the Family

The decision to adopt more children came with challenges. Ryan recalled selling their home to move into a larger space that could accommodate five more children, a testament to their dedication and love. Their nonprofit, Ohana, named after a meaningful family quote, strives to find forever families for kids in need, embodying the belief that every child deserves a family.

"Ohana means family and family means no one's left behind or forgotten. And it was so significant for our family." — Dr. Ryan Senters

Building a Legacy: Ohana

Ryan also spoke about his nonprofit organization, Ohana, which provides crucial support, housing, and family connections for foster children. His work not only benefits his family but extends to helping other families navigate the complexities of fostering and adoption.

"Our belief is that every child deserves a family. Our belief is that a kid's past story doesn't define them. And what we have learned is that if a family is consistent and present, any child's past hurts can be healed." — Dr. Ryan Senters

Conclusion

Ryan Senters' journey is a testament to the power of intentional fatherhood and the impact a loving, supportive family can have on a child's life. His story encourages all dads to step up, be present, and be intentional in their parenting, whether with biological or adopted children. For more insights and stories like Ryan's, check out the Dads with Daughters podcast and consider diving into additional resources available at fatheringtogether.org.

TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript created with CASTMAGIC)

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to the dads with daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week, I love being able to be on this journey with you because you and I are on a journey together. I've got 2 daughters, you've got daughters. We are working through this trying to figure it out as we go along. None of us have all the answers. So it's important to be able to learn from other people and be open to learning from other people. And that's why this show is here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:49]: This show is here to be able to provide you resources, provide you opportunities to, to hear from other dads, other people with different experiences that can help you to be the dad that you wanna be and help you to raise your daughters to be those strong independent women that you want them to be as well. Today, we got another great guest with us today. Doctor Ryan Centers is with us today, and Ryan is a father of 2 biological kids, 9 adopted kids, but he also runs a nonprofit that has been able to provide housing and support for more than 500 foster children. He's a busy guy, And I am really excited to have him here to learn more from him and his journey and to introduce him to you. Ryan, thanks so much for being here today.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:01:35]: Yeah. Thanks for having me on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:36]: It is my pleasure. And I love being able to learn from other dads. And, one of the things that I love doing first and foremost is turning the clock back in time. So I wanna go all the way back to your first biological daughter, that daughter that that made you a father. But I wanna go back to that first moment that you found out you were going to be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:01:56]: My wife and I were trying to get pregnant for a lot probably 2 years. So probably it was just more excitement than anything else. We really didn't have any expectation, boy or girl, but when we found out that I was gonna have our daughter, Brooklyn, just yeah. Sure excitement and a sense of, like, probably responsibility of, like, oh, jeez. I gotta take this serious here. I gotta make sure that I do this right.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:15]: Oh, and I don't know that there is one right way to do it. There isn't one right way to do it. So a lot of dads say, I've got to get this right. I got to do it right. There's got to be a right way to do it. And I keep saying, no, there's not. There's not one right way. There's lots of ways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:29]: So thinking back to those first days of being a dad, and I I talk to a lot of dads with daughters and a lot of dads are there's fear going into being a father, but there's also a fear of being a father to a daughter. What was your biggest fear in being a father to a daughter?

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:02:47]: Yeah. I guess when I was as I think back, I think generally when we when I had my little girl in my in my arms, I was just like, one, just never have done this before and kinda felt a little bit useless. My wife did a great job and was very patient very patient with me. And obviously, I wanted to be involved, but I guess my fear being with my, daughter is that I needed to, I don't know, just being present. I was just worried that I needed to make sure that I know it's not a right way, but in my head I was very thick. I had this fixed mindset. I would needed to get this right. So it was a little bit irrational and a little bit probably not correct, but I was 28 years old and trying to figure this out.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:03:27]: And I was like, oh, shoot. I need to make sure that this like, my dad, Nessa, wasn't active in my life, so I didn't really have a picture of that. So I didn't have a compass to kinda help direct that. So for me, I it produced a little bit of anxiety in the beginning stages because I wanted to make sure that I wasn't doing it wrong. And I think my past story and, like, my my family of origin really kinda impacted and shaped how I viewed and my fears kind of were a little bit irrational starting off.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:56]: Now, as I mentioned, you've got a few daughters and a number of sons that you've adapted as well. And I guess as you think about your daughters and raising your daughters into the women that they have become, what's been the hardest part of being a father to a daughter?

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:04:11]: I think for me, probably the hardest part of being a father to daughter is just making sure I'm modeling to them what they want for their future spouse is I have to be intentional and present with my kids, but also intentionally and present with my wife and kind of model that. I know they're watching, especially now my daughter's 14, My adopted daughter's 25, and she's now married. So they're coming to us for wisdom and guidance, and I wanna make sure that I'm helping model what they're a princess and, like, they deserve the best and they deserve to be independent. They're gonna be independent and helping them develop self confidence. They need to have a dad in their corner that's cheering them on and an example to what it means to have a man in their life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:00]: I mentioned that you're a busy guy. You're running a nonprofit. You work in a community college and working with students there. You are doing a lot of different things. You've got a large family as well where you're balancing all of that. Talk to me about balance and what you've had to do to be able to balance your professional life, your personal life, to be that dad that you wanted to be.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:05:21]: I guess when I think of the word balance, I don't necessarily know about if you're ever gonna balance it all out, but there is gonna be seasonality of certain things. So as I'm growing a business and then also building out a nonprofit, there is seasons where I have to be super intentional with that. And then there are seasons when like this summer, I'm just fully present with my kids. And one of the things that I've always tried to do is actually, as I go into my garage at home, there's a picture on the front and the driveway, as I go to park and it is a mental reset in my head that says, all right, this is my first ministry. This is my most important thing. This is my number one job is I don't get to just go home and just veg out. Even if I had a stressful conversation, stressful workday, have a bunch of deals undone, or I've had hard conversations. Like I have to get the reserve out of the tank and I have to reset my mind and say like, alright.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:06:14]: So it's like a visual representation as I'm walking into my house that I'm like, alright. First ministry engaged with my kids. And what I've learned is that, like, there are certain moments with kids that are more, like, are more critical than others. So like early in the morning when they're waking up 5 minutes of attentional time, 1 on 1 eating breakfast together around the dinner table, there's no tech. There is time to like, and in the evening, going to saying prayers or going to bed at night. That's a really critical moment for our family. And then we've also built into our schedule. Like we have tech free Sundays, so it's kind of unique.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:06:49]: We got 9 kids at home and they like technology just matches any other kid, but that's like a family day of like intentionality. I think there's been a shift with parenthood and fatherhood that it used to be like, Hey, in the old days, if you could just like make sure they're taken care of, that's great. Then it's the last probably 2 decades been like be a present father. But I think now I think that's halfway right. But I think now it needs to be like, now you need to be an intentional father, intentional to how you want them to develop. So for us, intentionality is critical. So for us, we do tech free Sundays. We have like a family breakfast.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:07:25]: We'll go to play ball or play basketball, and we'll do some kind of activity together and laugh. Have fun play together when parents and dads play with their kids, play with their daughters, that's like releases so much stress and brings bond and it develops like oxytocin in the brain. And it's very important for kids to feel bonded and safe.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:48]: So I mentioned that you have your 2 biological kids, you have 9 adopted kids. Tell me the story of moving into being a adoptive father and what that journey was like for you that made you and your wife decide that you wanted to move down that path?

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:08:06]: So we had a one biological daughter, Brooklyn. She's 14 now. And then we always felt called. I worked in a shelter in graduate school, working with kids in coming out of jail or had didn't have families. And I just fell in love with that work and knew that that was part of our path. It's crazy. Even at, you're not really twenties, my wife and I knew like, Hey, we're going to be a foster parent someday, which is pretty abnormal. So when we started, after we had our first daughter, we opened up our license.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:08:31]: We've been foster grand for 15 years, have taken in, I would say about 15 kids and we had 4 for a little over 12 years ago, we had 4 kids under 4, which is a lot. And we had 2 biological kids and then 2 adopted kids and our life felt pretty good. I was working in a foster care group homes and there is a girl there though, she's 14 years old and she's was one of like very quiet and reserved and she was available for adoption. And I just kind of developed a bond with her. And my wife actually saw her on these websites that were talking about adoption and she kept pointing her out to me. And long story short, we just kind of felt called to take a leap. And we, we took her in as a 14 year old and she was the most shy reserved girl. She never played any sports in her life.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:09:16]: I remember her senior year, she, we finally convinced her to go on some kind of sports team and she did badminton. I was like, oh, sweet badminton. And if you've ever went to a badminton game or a, a match, it's quiet. And I didn't know the rules and she's hitting the birdie and hitting it over. And I'm just, we're just cheering her and all of our siblings just cheering her on like crazy. And we didn't know the etiquette of the of the sport at all. But what I was so proud is that her senior year, she's been quiet and reserved her whole life. We go to do the banquet and she got player of the year and we were so proud of her.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:09:53]: We have this mantra in our family and we, we say it over our kids. We think identity and language is really important for kids. So we say Pima, our daughter, you are strong, you are brave and you are kind, you are strong, you are brave, and you are kind. We say that's three things over and over again. In our business, we have them that says, you are strong, you are brave, you are kind. And so when she gets that payment, you are so strong. And like, or when she was nervous to go get her go to the community for the first time and go, Hey, I'm going to drive you up there, but you got to walk in. So dad, I can't do it.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:10:22]: Dad, I can't do it. No. Pima, you are strong. You are brave. Let's go. And she stepped out and did that. And I remember so vividly her freshman year, she was finishing up her community college test and she went across the street to go get something to eat. And she looks over and she sees this guy panhandling on the street and are panhandling it.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:10:41]: And she looks over and does a double take. And she realized she recognizes this guy, but he looks at her and he doesn't recognize her. She looks again, her heart starts to race and she says, dad, and it's her biological dad who's been an addict most of his life, is homeless on the street. And he said, do I know you? And he didn't even recognize her. And it just threw her in a spin. And that evening she comes home. We don't hear about this. She comes home and we're putting our younger four to bed and she's there with us.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:11:07]: And she tells my wife and I this story. And she's shaking and she's sitting to us and then just starts to cry. And we say, Pima, you are strong, you are brave, and you are kind. You are loved. You are a center. You are so important in trying to speak that over her where someone feels so insecure and feels like nothing. And for girls, that's very, very common. And I think a dad's role is to speak truth and treat, speak that identity over her.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:11:32]: And minutes later, she says, I want to put the kids to bed and she's never puts our kids to bed. So she runs upstairs, passes me by up the stairs and she runs up to my youngest son who's now 4 years old and she says, Maddox, she says, you are strong, you are brave and you are kind and you are going to college. And for me, she is now living into her identity and living into it and developing confidence because she's able to, to spur that onto other people. And for me, that's the role of a dad. It's the role of a foster parent. And that's a big moment for us. We have group homes and there was 5 kids that didn't have a family and our family was full. And long story short, we just kind of felt called to it.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:12:13]: And it was a 2 year old to a 13 year old. We sold our house 2 years ago, found a place that could fit everybody, reopen our foster license, and took in these 5 kids and adopted them all this summer. So that's been a whirlwind as well. So I feel like I've lived enough for 3 decades for sure in 20 years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:30]: So you also run a nonprofit that helps to connect kids with families. And not only are you taking these kids into your own family and creating these opportunities for but you're also creating opportunities for other families as well. So talk to me about that and what drove you to create this nonprofit called Ohana that that is providing that, but also connecting these kids with other families.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:13:03]: One of our adopted sons, we always called him Stitch, like from the movie, Lilo and Stitch. She's like this wild terror alien baby thing. And we always called him Stitch to life. He's a lover and a terror. And there's a quote in the movie. It says, Ohana means family and family means no one's left behind or forgotten. And it was so significant for our family. That's why we started our nonprofit called Ohana.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:13:23]: And our belief is that every child deserves a family. Our belief is that a kid's past story doesn't define them. And what we have learned is that if a family is consistent and present, like any child's past hurts can be healed. So, we have kids who are available for adoption that we are trying to find forever families for. So we've adopted kids through that program, but we have about 90 kids that we serve and we have about 10 kids that get adopted every year, which is some of the biggest joy and awesome parts of the journey. And we try to equip parents that parents are like, oh, like when I was a young parent, I was like, I gotta be perfect and do this right. Even more so when you work as a foster parent. Oh, I gotta do this right.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:14:07]: Yeah. Throw that out the window. Show up, be present, love them well, and they'll be alright.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:12]: Well, and that's what I was gonna ask you was when you look at your whole family and how you parent your biological kids, your adoptive kids, I would guess I have 2 biological kids. I do not have adopted kids, but and I have not been a foster parent. But in my perspective, I would guess that you have to parent them the same way and you have to love them the same way.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:14:31]: Absolutely. Yeah. So I, you, and it's interesting that like kids that we have adopted, like they are part of our family, the love that we have, people like, how could you do that? How could you love, like, I don't know your heart just kind of grows. Like, it's like part of the calling of like the adoption and foster care. But yes, you have to, I think you have to adjust your expectations when you're having a foster adopted child. Some of my kids, my son was in 7th grade and he was reading at a 2nd grade level. Okay. I can't have the same expectations for him.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:15:00]: And some parents would be like, Hey, he needs to just focus on school. No sports. But I knew my kid had needed an outlet and he needed to move his body and needed to have something where he could have some wins and success. And for him it was soccer. So I made sure that he played soccer where my other kid says, Hey, if you have missing assignment, dude, you're not going to practice. But this kid needed to make sure that, so there is some, you have to adjust kind of your expectations and sometimes bonding takes more time, but they need love. Like my 25 year old daughter, she just still like, it took her forever to be able to hug and I didn't want to ever force it hug. But now she's like, first thing she does, she comes into my house and wants to give us the biggest hug and for an adopted child, that's a big deal.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:15:41]: Especially for a 14 year old black girl who doesn't know, and I was a 35 year old white guy. It felt off. It didn't feel comfortable for her. And I respected that. But now it's time it's like, no, we're family. Like we're love. Like the love is deeper than any thing that makes us different.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:59]: So if people are interested in being potential foster parents in the future, sometimes people think that this is a process that is really difficult and something that they don't wanna move down or they're scared because of some of the the things that kids may bring with them and what they have to be able to struggle with as a family, as they're bringing them into their family. What do you say to those people and how to get in or to work through some of the challenges that they may encounter in bringing foster kids into your family?

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:16:35]: A couple things. 1, you have to, 1, adjust your expectations. 1, it's not about you. It's about the child. So that has to be reorient yourself. I work with a lot of families that wanna complete their family. And that's great. I respect that.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:16:46]: It can, that can be part of it. But also the primary thing is, like, I see this child and I want to make sure that they have hope and healing. That's gotta be foundation. But then there's also, like, just some people have been through it before. So I always reached out to people who have been in this before. Like, when we were struggling with our son and having behaviors, my god, what the what the crap do I do here? I asked people that knew. So there's, like, general words of wisdom is like, a, take younger than your kids that you have in your home. Take younger.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:17:15]: Because why? Because they will help guide the culture of what to expect for them. I wouldn't get a kid that's older than your biological children. And making sure that you know their history and are prepared for that is an important aspect as well. And then having other people in your corner. So for me, it's like, I always gotta have family. I gotta have family, friends. We have a family of friends that will take their kid for a night and just give us a moment to reset. Because you're like, oh, this is a lot, occasionally.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:17:43]: And having family to kinda help. Hey. Can you take the kids for a night so my wife and I so we can just have a chance to reset ourselves. And that was a big, big important thing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:52]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:18:00]: Yep. Gotcha. is fatherhood?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:00]: In one word, what

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:18:02]: Intentional.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:03]: When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:18:08]: My 14 year old daughter, we went to a dad daughter dance, and she loved being the dad's princess and being with me all the time. And we have the 4 year old little girl and she's like, we need to make sure she comes too. And she taught her how to dance and do all this other stuff. So that was a really big win. And we also just had my wife's 40th birthday and my daughter did a toast to her and talked so many great things. And my son, like, prayed over and blessing over the whole night. So that was super humbling and great.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:36]: Now if I was to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad?

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:18:40]: I think they would say I'm fun. Love to play sport with the kids. I'm strict. They know that. And I'm a big believer that centers do hard things. So they know we do hard things together.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:51]: Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:18:52]: My father-in-law for sure didn't have a dad, but he is a great picture of a dad for me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:57]: Now you've given a lot of piece of advice. You've shared your story and talked about what you've gone through as a father yourself, or at least part of what you've gone through as a father yourself. As we finish up today, what's one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:19:09]: Kinda go back. Fatherhood is more than just being present. Present is good. Present is is showing up to the game. It's maybe coaching once in a while. Maybe it's making sure you're not on your phone when your kids are talking to you present. That's awesome. But I think the next step of fatherhood is intentionality.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:19:26]: Intentionality is having a picture of what you want your family to be about. A picture of what you want your kids' lives to be about. I want my kids to be more generous. I want them to serve others. I want them to learn to do hard things. So what's the picture? And then intentionality is, like, creating opportunities and moments to do those things and naming those. So for us, it's like we have an intentional like, we wanna we're creating a ranch for kids with special needs. So for us, like, we do hard things.

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:19:53]: So we're building our chicken coop, and we're all doing that together. My daughter, she's in a power of tools and making it happen. Why? Because I am teaching us, one, we do hard things and that we serve others. And I'm always pointing towards that So my kids can be reinforced that that is what we do. That's who we are more than just present. It's intentionality.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:12]: If people want to find out more about Ohana or about you, where should they go?

Dr. Ryan Senters [00:20:17]: Yeah. So I have a podcast and I'm actually releasing one on fatherhood and parenthood, foster adoption, season this this fall. It's called Unleash Your Purpose, and you can look me up orioncenters.com, and ohanaaz.org is our organization.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:33]: Well, Ryan, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today. Thank you for all that you're doing to be able to help connect kids with their forever families. And I truly wish you all the best.

Ryan Senters [00:20:45]: Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:46]: If you've enjoyed today's episode of the dads with daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, And the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together dot org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong and empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast, the time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and muscle men, get out and beat the world to them. Be the best dad you can be.

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Fatherhood presents unique challenges and opportunities for growth, particularly when raising daughters. In this week's Dads with Daughters podcast, we welcome Don Manning or Crazy Cool Family delving deep into the realities of father-daughter relationships, providing valuable insights and practical strategies for dads committed to being the best they can be.

Reframing Teenage Years

Understanding and Embracing the Journey

A common perception is that the teenage years are inevitably challenging. Dr. Christopher Lewis offers a refreshing perspective, suggesting that with the right approach, these years can be full of positive experiences and growth for both fathers and daughters. Central to this approach is the belief in the importance of a strong family belief system and a nurturing environment. By actively working to build relationships, fathers can play a crucial role in creating a supportive and understanding family dynamic.

Personal Growth and Faith

Dr. Lewis shares his personal journey, where his Christian faith and a wealth of parenting literature have significantly influenced his parenting style. The emphasis on feeling seen and heard in reversing trauma is a key takeaway, underscoring the importance of emotional availability and sensitivity to a child's needs.

Creating a Family Culture

Building a Network of Relationships

The concept of building a family culture akin to a network of relationships is pivotal in maintaining strong family dynamics. Dr. Lewis emphasizes that this approach can create a cohesive unit where each member feels valued and understood. The ripple effect of this approach is evident in Lewis's own family, where their methodologies attracted interest from others, leading to the development of a curriculum, writing a book, and creating a ministry.

Resources for Continuous Improvement

Over time, their ministry has developed numerous resources, including parenting books, a podcast, interactive workbooks, and a daily email subscription, all aimed at helping dads improve their relationships with their children. These resources stress the importance of fathers becoming better listeners, more encouraging, and building trust with their children.

Challenges for Modern Dads

Technology and Connection

Modern dads face unique challenges, notably the impact of technology on family connections and the lack of training in relationship-building. The podcast highlights the need for fathers to be proactive in carving out quality time with their children, away from screens and distractions.

Spending Quality Time

Intentional involvement in everyday activities, be it errands or special outings, is key to building strong bonds. Such consistent, quality time helps in understanding and connecting with each child's unique personality.

Vulnerability and Self-Improvement

Importance of Being Open and Transparent

Both speakers agree that vulnerability—being open, transparent, and admitting faults—is crucial in forming stronger connections with daughters. This openness fosters a sense of trust and mutual respect, which is essential for a healthy father-daughter relationship.

Focusing on Self-Improvement

Dr. Lewis stresses that presenting the best version of oneself is more beneficial for children than focusing on their shortcomings. This perspective encourages dads to embark on a continuous journey of self-improvement, setting a positive example for their children.

Parenting with Faith Over Fear

Don Manning's Journey

Don Manning shares his experience transitioning from parenting with fear to parenting with faith. Initially, fear led him to adopt a controlling style, which proved ineffective. Over time, Manning learned that building relational connections was far more impactful than merely enforcing rules.

Encouragement and Trust

Manning emphasizes that no single approach to parenting is always correct. The hardest part, he notes, is dealing with fear and learning to trust that his daughters will make the right choices despite the challenges they may face. This approach fosters a more relaxed and nurturing environment.

Crazy Cool Family Mission

Transforming Fatherhood

Dr. Lewis discusses the mission of Crazy Cool Family, an organization aimed at helping parents improve their relationships with their children and become better versions of themselves. The ministry encourages fathers to be actively involved and continuously learn about parenting and relationships.

Shared Experience and Reevaluating Beliefs

Most men aspire to be good fathers but often lack the knowledge or vision to achieve this goal. Reflecting on their upbringing or external challenges, both speakers recommend reevaluating long-held beliefs about parenting and embracing new insights—such as Dr. Lewis's realization about teenage rebellion.

Conclusion

Fatherhood is a lifelong journey of learning, growth, and forming deep connections. By embracing vulnerability, prioritizing quality time, and committing to self-improvement, dads can navigate the complexities of raising daughters with confidence and grace. The insights shared by Dr. Christopher Lewis and Don Manning provide a roadmap for fathers striving to build strong, loving relationships with their daughters.

TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript created by CASTMAGIC)

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:15]: Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, you and I are on a journey together. I love being able to walk this path with you every week as we are talking about the thing that I know I'm most passionate about and I'm sure you're most passionate about, which is raising our daughters and raising them into being those strong, independent women that we want them to be in their lives. And I know in the path that I've been on, there have been so many dads that I've turned to to try and gain more perspective. Because I didn't know everything, And no dad knows everything. And as you walk into fatherhood, there's not one right manual. There's not one right way to father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:08]: So it's so important that we as men are willing to step up and ask questions and listen and watch and learn, but be able to also take some tools from other people, put them in our own toolbox and be able to put them to work. And that's what this podcast is all about. It's all about helping you to find other resources, find other ways of doing things to be able to help you on this journey that you're on. That's why every week I bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that allow for you to be able to go on this path with others. Because we all have a journey to be on, and it's so important to be able to learn from others. And today we've got another great guest. Don Manning is with us today. And Don has been on a parenting journey for quite some time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:00]: He's got 7 kids, 4 daughters, 3 sons, And he is a business owner. He's an investor. He has worked in real estate. He does a lot of different things, but he also has something called crazy cool family. And we're gonna be talking about that as well as him being a father himself, and I'm really excited to have him here. Don, thanks so much for being here today.

Don Manning [00:02:24]: Yeah. Glad to be here. You said strong, independent women, and that's so I just laugh because that describes my 4 daughters to a t, and my wife too. I mean, I've got very we've got very strong independent women in our household, so it just that's funny when you said that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:42]: I want to turn the clock back in time on you, and I know that you've got kids that range all the way from 34 on down. And your oldest 4 are your daughters. So I wanna go back to that first moment. That first moment that you found out that you were going to be a dad to a daughter, what was going through your head?

Don Manning [00:03:00]: Well, first of all, so my wife brought our first daughter to the marriage. So I knew I was going to be a so I've got a blended family, you know, and so my wife then we had 3 girls and 3 sons together after that. So when we got married, my oldest daughter was 2. In some ways, I say I fell in love with her daughter and married the mom, but that's not really true. But I really had no idea. So I'd I was the youngest in my family. I'd never been around kids. And suddenly, I'm married, and I have this 2 year old, and I'm not her dad.

Don Manning [00:03:36]: And so quick story, so you're talking about first memory. So Suzanne and I dated my wife, Suzanne, and I, we dated for a year before we got married. So we were you know, I was I was accustomed to Molly, our our oldest daughter. And so but we go on. We get married and and, we go on our honeymoon and we come back and I'm like, okay. Because Suzanne, you know, this was so typical of a dad. You know, I know how to parent better than she does. Right? And I've watched her parents, so I'm like, I can give her some advice.

Don Manning [00:04:03]: You know? As we come into the house, new sheriff in town. We're gonna take over. We're gonna help her help my wife become a better parent. Right? That's that's kind of the the mantra I had coming in because I knew everything. And so the first night we get back home, and Molly's daughter would wake up in the middle of the night, and she there was 2 things. She would wake up and she would cry, and she had a a pretty sensitive gag reflex. So I walk up there, and and and when I was with Suzanne, she would tell me about how, you know, she would have to stay up with her all night. And I was like, hey, I'll help you with this because I think I can get her to go to sleep.

Don Manning [00:04:39]: You know? Obviously, you know, again, I knew everything. I was so I walk up there. The first night, she's crying. Honey, let me handle this for you. And I walk up the stairs to the second to the bedroom where her crib was, and I said, Molly, you know, I don't have my shirt on because, you know, I'm 27 years old. I was in shape at that time. And, you know, so I walk up there and I'm just and I'm holding Molly out, and I just said, Molly, we you know, just gently I'm not being rude or anything, but just, Molly, we need to go to bed. You know, this is something we're gonna do.

Don Manning [00:05:07]: And she looks at me and throws up all over me. And so that was my that was my initiation into marriage, into parenting the 1st night. And I'm like, I mean not I mean I don't have my shirt on so it's thrown up all over me. I'm going, oh my goodness this what is this life going to be? What is parenting? I was just so defeated at that point and so it got better after that. But that was my initiation into parenting right there. It's a little bit different than the hospital, but, that's where I was.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:40]: That's quite the induction into being a father. And, you know, one of the things that a lot of dads tell me, especially dads of daughters, tells me that there's some fear, some fear in not only becoming a father, but fear in being a father to a daughter. What would you say has been your biggest fear in raising your daughters?

Don Manning [00:06:01]: Yeah. I totally agree, and it's been something that has I think getting away from fear, what I call it going from fear to faith, has revolutionized my parenting. I mean, you know, I tell dads a lot, you know, I speak to dads a lot in our ministry. Crazy Cool Family, what you're referring to is is our ministry we do now, and we'll talk about that later. But a lot of times when I talk to dads, I say, you know, realize at one time it was it was me and 5 women in my house. And one, there was a fear that I didn't understand these beings that and so what fear and really my fear was is that they wouldn't turn out well. That, you know, that they would be, you know, sexually active maybe or, you know, in negative ways, or they would be rebellious, or they would, you know, get that all the things you think about as a dad, they're gonna be addicted to drugs, they're gonna be, you know, not able to do relationships, and just all the things that that come out of it. And so and I'm a teacher at heart, so what I really focused on is helping them to obey and make sure they did what I said.

Don Manning [00:07:05]: And I thought that was being a good dad, you know, that I could if I if I protected them and my fears led me to wanna protect and to teach and to tell them what to do. And when they didn't do it, I told them again, and I told them again, and I told them again. And, you know, so the the fear was really that they weren't gonna turn out well, and the way I responded to that was I just got onto them all the time. And that really didn't connect relationally, and I and over time, I just wasn't working, and I found they they avoided me. Some you know, they started they were a good relationship. I mean, I was involved in their lives, but it was still challenging as I my fear led me to do things that were not helpful in parenting.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:44]: And as you're talking about parenting, I know you have 7 kids, and parenting is never easy. There's always those ups and downs as you're raising your kids. They're always going to throw you through a loop. There's not one right way to parent, but there's gonna be times where things are gonna be good and things that times that are where things might be more challenging. What's been the hardest part in being a dad to a daughter?

Don Manning [00:08:04]: I think one of the biggest challenges I've found is understanding the female and as a male understanding the female, and I've really done a lot of work with that to try to understand my daughters to to to really get to the bottom of their hearts. So they because I believe that belief and determines behavior, that how we believe and what we do determines who we are. And so rather than so often I felt like I was dealing with the surface, and the deeper I went with the relationship and the connection, the better my parenting got.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:37]: Now when you have so many kids you have 7 kids, so that's a lot of kids, you know, and a lot of things going on in that household. And with 4 daughters, one of the things that I guess that I would question for you is as a father, I know with 2 my 2 daughters, they're very different people. They have different personalities, and they bring different dynamics not only to the home, but also just to the ethos of the environment. And I have to be very intentional about understanding who they are, what they need, and who they are as individuals to be able to build those unique relationships. How did you build those unique relationships with your daughters?

Don Manning [00:09:17]: No substitute for time. For example, I I tell dads a lot that when I was a young dad with young children, young daughters, one of the things I did was I just took them with me whenever I went somewhere. So if I went to Home Depot, I was gonna have a 3 year old girl with me, and I would take them out on certain dates. Like, we would just go and, you know, for example, we and it didn't have to always be just one child. You know, with 7, sometimes you have to do different things, but I would meet my buddy at Chick Fil A, and we would he had a couple kids. I had a couple kids with me, and and we would let them play, and and we would talk, and then but they would interact. And a lot of times we talk about it, Crazy Cool Family, it's along the way. There's a scripture that talks about in Deuteronomy where you do it when you lie down, when you rise up, when you're walking along the road.

Don Manning [00:10:04]: It's like so often I think relationship is developed along the way. And if you just include your kids in your lives and you're included in their lives, there's a lot of you know, it may be in the car. It may be when they're going to bed at night. For example, I made sure that I my wife was at home with these kids, so she was exhausted by the end of the day. Bedtime was a big time for me, and I took jobs that didn't travel so I could be home at night. Decisions made like that helped me to make connections, deciding to include them in my life. And then the other thing I would say about that relationship is learning to be someone that asks questions. So often as dads we are in the lecture business.

Don Manning [00:10:48]: We are, you know, we're efficient and we tell them what to do and we make sure that everything is taken care of. But in reality, the, the need is with especially with females again is to ask questions and to not tell them what to do but find out what's in their heart And that allows us to connect with them better.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:08]: In raising daughters, one of the things when you say about connecting to their heart, I think about the fact that I know that I've had to step back and really look at my own self to be able to better understand my daughters and know that they are going to be expecting of me things that I would not always expect of other men, of other people. And it's been a journey. And it's been something that I know that is not always an easy journey, but I've had to step back. I've had to be willing to explain when I'm wrong, explain and talk to them about and be a bit more vulnerable with them than so I think we're always programmed to be. Talk to me about vulnerability for yourself and how you've had to be vulnerable to be able to make those connections with your own daughters.

Don Manning [00:11:59]: Yeah. The first thing I I love what you just said is that is you're talking about yourself first and how you change to be a better parent and a better person. One of the things we tell people a lot is the best thing that I can do for my family is to present my family the best version of me. That so often as dads, we wanna say, I need to improve my kid. My kid needs to improve. They need to do this better, and so often the real focus needs to be on us because, and, it's not just the connection, but our example to our children is more important than our instruction. Who we are with them, they see through the instruction to the person. They're gonna follow a whole lot more of who we are versus what we tell them.

Don Manning [00:12:47]: And so I think that's a great what you just said is awesome that what can we do to be the best version of ourselves? And when we are vulnerable, when we are transparent is another way I like to put that is I find that my daughters would respond so much better to me. And again, just the the asking questions, the telling them, you know, realizing so often I think we need to we we need to show our daughters that we are perfect. And in reality, that's not the best way to parent in my opinion. It's you know, you're talking about there's not one method and that's so true, but there are concepts that do work well and one of those is to be transparent, is to be vulnerable, and to share with them things about your life that's going on as well as listen to things about them without being so judgmental. What does judgment come from? Judgment comes from fear. You know, our daughter tells us something and we are scared that they're gonna go down a path and so we want to stop them. We do it with the best intentions. The same way we don't tell them things about ourselves because we don't think they'll respect us or we don't think they'll like us.

Don Manning [00:13:51]: We have things hidden in our hearts that we think are bad that we don't want anybody to see. But when we keep those in, they see them anyway. And so so often and so then we become kind of hypocritical to them and we lose respect.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:04]: So let's transition a little bit because you've been talking a little bit about your crazy cool family and the mission, the organization that you started to be able to help parents, help fathers, help mothers to be who they want to be. But talk to me about the the genesis of this and where you started this and where you are today.

Don Manning [00:14:24]: Well, when I was 4 daughters, like I said, 5 women in my house. I wanna be a good father, you know, and honestly, I talk to men all over the country now with our ministry. I find that most men want to be good to great fathers. They really do. I think I rarely talk to a dad. He's like, you know, I don't really care about being a father. It's not real high on my priority list. I mean, do you see the same thing?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:49]: I do. People want to be the best dads, but they don't always know how to.

Don Manning [00:14:53]: Yeah. And maybe life is a little bit overwhelming or there's challenges in our life. Everything from work to even addictions to we didn't come from those type of homes. I also find that a lot of dads don't really have a vision for what family can be, and I didn't really either at that time. I'll give you an example. I was at a conference just a couple of weeks ago, and they're talking about well, even going back to a few many years ago, somebody said teenage rebellion does not have to happen. And my wife and I looked at each other, and we were like, wow. That really challenges our belief system because we have been brought up thinking that, oh, wow.

Don Manning [00:15:32]: The teenage years are just gonna be so hard and it's, you know, it's always gonna be just almost a disaster and we never know what they're gonna do and, you know, just all the things. And at this conference I was at a couple weeks ago, there was a lot of people talking about that. Well, I wanted to tell them I didn't get a chance. I wasn't my I was just participating in it, but I wanted to tell them, guys, hey. It doesn't have to be like that. What if your belief system is that that teenagers are fun and teenagers are gonna be a a delight to your family? Well, so years ago, I'm I'm probably 10 years into this journey and I'm going, you know what? I wanna I wanna be my best, and I wanna you know, in effect, I'm a competitive guy, and I just said, I wanna win at family. I'm gonna put a lot of time, effort, and energy into this. And what does winning at family look like for our family? And so we're a we're a Christian based organization, Christian family, and we said we want our kids to have great faith.

Don Manning [00:16:31]: We want us to have we want them to have great relationships with us. We want them to make wise decisions. We want them to follow our faith and be able to choose that. We want them to have the choice but be able to choose that. And and I was like, how do I get there? And so what happened was is that we just started to study a lot of things within the church as well as other authors and people, and it was really interesting to me that it was all over the board that the parenting literature and advice and things were all over the board. But we found that as for our 7 kids, it's kind of going back to what we said before, that when we connected the people who were having success and this was either faith based or not faith based. I'm reading a book right now about the effect of trauma on children and it is amazing and they say that even trauma can be reversed if a child has parents or other parents first or other people that are relationally connected in their lives, if they feel like they are seen and heard. And so we found that true in our family that the connection was so important and that the culture we were building in our family was super important.

Don Manning [00:17:41]: We needed almost like building a greenhouse in our home for the relationships. I look at family as a now, as a network of relationships, And so goes that network, so often so goes our family. And so we started to focus on that and then over time, our kids started to really again, the girls and the boys started to really respond to that. And when you, you know, Christopher, when you have 7 kids and they're good kids, people start asking you what you're doing because they and they really were. We had a good relationship with them because we focused on that. They had good relationships with each other for the most part, and they were confident kids that were not and they weren't valedictorians and they weren't the star athletes. It wasn't about that. They just they just radiated a confidence in their lives, and and and our family kinda was was becoming a little bit set apart.

Don Manning [00:18:34]: And this was honestly, a lot of it was in our church, and people started asking us, hey. Would you show us what you're doing? And because, you know, just like we did, we we talked to a lot of successful families what we And so that led to us just teaching younger families in our church and developing a curriculum which eventually led to writing a book, and now we have a ministry. And we're a Christian ministry, but we really focus on how to build connections within your home, that family network of relationships, and how to build that culture where we just believe if you build well on the inside, you can handle anything on the outside.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:10]: And I know you have a number of resources that you've created over some time, and one is a podcast, and you've got some workbooks. Talk to me about some of the resources that you've created and what you're trying to accomplish through the different means that you're trying to engage with people?

Don Manning [00:19:28]: We started out with our book, Crazy Cool Family. We've written now 7 parenting books that are on Amazon. Everything from our workbooks to certain little what we call microbooks, which are very, like, very issue based. It's just short, little, quick reads. You can go to Amazon and type in Don and Suzanne Manning or Don Manning or whatever. I haven't figured out yet how to make Amazon link it to Crazy Cool Family yet because it's because we're the authors of the books. But so usually, I tell people to go to Amazon and type in Don Don Manning, and you can see all of our resources there. But, basically, we started out with a book, and then at that time, we started out with a podcast.

Don Manning [00:20:06]: We were just talking. Both of us have about 250 episodes. We've been doing we've been doing ours about this is this is season 6 of our podcast. So, and we do it about once a week. So there's lots of resources in that podcast. So we've talked about we've got different guests or sometimes Suzanne and I just talk or we've talked with our kids sometimes. Lots of different resources there. And then this year we came out with what I'm really excited about is what we call our 2 guides, which are basically just 2 6 session workbooks.

Don Manning [00:20:36]: It's very interactive. They're only hard copy because you get to journal in them and really go through them, and they're available on Amazon and but those two manuals together, there's, like, 12 sessions in both manuals together. They create this comprehensive guide to giving you the key concepts to how to connect everyone in your family and how to build that culture in your home. All the resources kinda have the same theme. They're just different delivery systems for them. And then the last thing I'll tell you is is we also have a daily email that we can you can subscribe to on our website, crazycoolfamily dotcom. It's a couple of minutes a day. It's it's again, it's faith based as our ministry is, but it's a it's a quick clip every day.

Don Manning [00:21:17]: You can read it in 2 minutes or less just about to kinda drip our concepts into dads and moms about how to connect with their kids and how to connect everyone in their family and they build unity and culture in their homes.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:31]: Now you've worked with a lot of dads over the years, I'm sure. And with the conversations that you're having, but whether it be in person or through other means, what are some of the biggest struggles that some of the men that you're talking with are dealing with? And how are you helping them to be able to move through those challenges?

Don Manning [00:21:51]: I think the biggest challenge that men face today is the technology and the culture that are out there. And it is difficult to connect with our kids when all they wanna do is get on their phone. And I think that and the secondary you know, the corollary to that is is that as dads, we're usually not well trained in how to reach our kids. We're not really well trained in the relationship arena. And when you combine the technology that's separating all of us with that we're not trained with the relationships, then a lot of dads are having trouble with that connection piece with their children and so and also with their wives. And so we do a lot towards helping dads learn to become better listeners, more encouraging, more inspiring. You know, so many dads are, oh, they're on their phone all the time. I can't talk to them, and when I do, I feel like I'm getting on to them all the time.

Don Manning [00:22:49]: Well, there's different ways to overcome that. And we focus a lot to help dads learn how to build trust with their kids, build relationship with their kids. And really, so many dads, it's not really that fun being a dad. Well, it can be. It can be a lot of fun with the right attitudes and concepts, and we try to help them do that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:07]: So you've been doing this now for quite some time. And as you look at the future, where is Crazy Cool Family going?

Don Manning [00:23:15]: Great question. I what we find is learning to be a parent does not happen in days weeks. It doesn't happen in a weekend seminar. It happens over months years. As parenting is a long term game, it's something and, you know, I I really challenge dads a lot to become learners. I was with a dad just, you know, a few weeks ago, and blended family had come together. They had 6 kids between them, had been married for a few years. And I challenged those dads, you know, at that conference to be learners.

Don Manning [00:23:46]: You know, what what are you doing to learn about being a dad and and to to improve your dad's skills? And he goes, you know, he goes, man, I'm in IT, and I'm always learning about technology. He goes, I on the side, I'm a personal trainer, and I'm always learning new things about personal training neck techniques and and nutrition and things like that and and weightlifting and aerobics. He said, I've never thought about learning to be a dad. And I'm like, I'm glad you came because, you know, now he's got a new focus. I said, how do you expect to be a great dad if you never learn? And the way you learn to be a dad is not by reading one book. It is by consistently putting input in over the course of years. And then just like anything else, you know, Steph Curry didn't learn how to shoot the jump shot he has today in in a weekend. He learned it over months years and and continual practice.

Don Manning [00:24:37]: And that's what we try. That's where Crazy Cool Family is going with our daily email, with our materials. We want to kinda we want to be a a part of a man's life and a family's life for years as we drip our content into them so that those parents can learn over time to become excellent at the most, and arguably the most important thing we'll ever do in our lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:59]: No. It is so important, and I appreciate you sharing that. Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Don Manning [00:25:09]: Yeah. Absolutely. I feel like I'm on jeopardy or something.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:13]: In one word, what is fatherhood?

Don Manning [00:25:15]: Relationship. It's connection. I think the most important thing we can do in fatherhood is connect.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:21]: Now when was the time that you finally found that you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Don Manning [00:25:26]: I don't know that I've found that yet. I I think with every daughter, it was different. There's different times that I won their heart. But I think that when I feel like there's trust in the relationship and there's interaction, there's a bridge that I feel like I've crossed with each daughter and with my wife too, where we trust each other.

Dr. Christopher Lewis[00:25:47]: Now, if I was to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad?

Don Manning [00:25:52]: It's interesting. My younger kids would have described me as an intense, teaching, challenging dad. My older kids would describe me as still intense, but more encouraging. And I would say they probably describe me as involved, that I coached all their sports teams. I, loved to connect with them, and I think they would describe it as involved.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:15]: Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Don Manning [00:26:17]: Jesus. I don't want that to be trite, but I believe that the best example of being a father is God. And when Jesus was baptized so Jesus is 30 years old. He has not started his ministry yet. He has done nothing of importance. He's he's a carpenter, basically. And he gets baptized, and God says something to him when he comes up out of the water. He says, this is my son whom I love.

Don Manning [00:26:42]: In him I am well pleased. And I ask dads this a lot, and I ask myself this question. Do my children believe that I believe that about them? You know, this is my I own you. I claim you. Not I own you, but I claim you. I love you and I'm pleased with you. I'm delighted in you. I think you're amazing.

Don Manning [00:27:01]: Is that what our kids think? And that's the best model of parenting I've ever seen.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:07]: Now you've given a lot of piece of advice today, things that you learned along the way, things they've learned from other parents and other fathers. As we're finishing up today, what's one piece of advice you want to give to every dad?

Don Manning [00:27:18]: Be a learner. I mean, if one of the things is is that I tell dads this a lot that if you could have seen me as a dad at year 5 and you would see my kids today. You would be like, there's no way. There's no way that could happen because I was there was so much I had to learn. And, honestly, I started out I wasn't very good at being a dad. I mean, I tried hard because that was kind of a mantra of my life. I am a hard worker, and I do like to I'm motivated, and I'm I'm not lazy. But, man, I just messed it up a lot, especially with my young girls.

Don Manning [00:27:53]: And so I would tell dads to be a learner and to learn about themselves as well as a learner about relationships because the the cool deal about this deal with fatherhood is we can all be amazing. I believe every dad can be amazing. I believe every relationship with every child can be amazing. There's things we need to learn and it's not easy, but it is possible. And I want to tell dads that you can win and it's worth winning. It is so fun to do family when things are going well and it is so difficult when things are not going well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:29]: Well, Don, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today, for sharing the journey that you've been on, but also the journey that you've been on to help other parents in many different ways. If people wanna get a hold of you or find out more about you, where should they go?

Don Manning [00:28:44]: Crazycoolfamily.com is our website. And then just if they wanna email me directly, it's it's don at crazycoolfamily.com. I hear from dad and parents all over the country with different questions and things, and our resources are all there. I would really challenge them to sign up for our daily email because we not only do a daily email, but we also tell you of things that we're doing to help you go further with your fathering and parenting journey. And so that would be the place to start out with is connect with that daily email. Promise you, it's a quick read, and you'll be encouraged and inspired to be your best.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:18]: Well, Don, thanks again for being here today, and I wish you all the best.

Don Manning [00:29:21]: Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:22]: If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week all geared to helping you raise strong and powered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and be the world to them.

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The Journey of Being a Dad

Fatherhood is a journey filled with joy, challenges, and continuous growth. On the latest episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we sit down with Damien Moore, a dedicated father and founder of Dad's Daily Digest. Through their engaging conversation, Damien shares heartfelt experiences, invaluable insights, and practical advice for fathers striving to raise resilient and compassionate children.

Preparing for the Unexpected

The Impact of COVID-19 on Fatherhood

Damien Moore's journey into fatherhood coincided with an unprecedented global event—the COVID-19 pandemic. His daughter was born just six weeks before the world shut down. As a budding freelance professional, Damien faced the harsh reality of job loss while also navigating the new terrain of fatherhood amidst a pandemic. The absence of his family in the crucial initial months underscored the emotional strain many new parents faced during this period.

"There's no parenting tips or books that tell you how to parent during a pandemic," Damien states, highlighting the uncertainty that clouded the early days of his fatherhood journey.

Despite these challenges, Damien found solace and support in technology, enabling constant communication with his family through virtual platforms. This adaptability and reliance on a support network became a cornerstone of his approach to parenting during these trying times.

Addressing Mental Health: A Family Affair

Understanding and Managing Anxiety

Both Damien and his wife come from families with a history of mental health challenges, making them acutely aware of the importance of mental well-being. Recognizing early signs of anxiety in their daughter, they took proactive steps to understand and address her needs. From withholding toileting behaviors to being easily startled, these manifestations of anxiety required a sensitive and informed approach.

"We adapt as parents based on our kids' personalities," shares Damien, emphasizing the need for a tailored parenting approach that considers individual differences.

Damien's candidness about his own mental health struggles and his decision to seek therapy underline the importance of self-awareness and the willingness to seek help. By sharing these experiences, he sets a powerful example for other fathers, encouraging them to prioritize their mental health for the benefit of their families.

Building a Supportive Community

The Birth of Dad's Daily Digest

Inspired by personal experiences and a desire to support other fathers, Damien launched Dad's Daily Digest—a platform aimed at providing advice, sharing stories, and fostering a supportive community among fathers. The alarming rise in suicide rates during the pandemic, particularly among men, motivated Damien to create a space where fathers could find solace, encouragement, and practical tips on navigating the complexities of parenthood.

"If I just touch one person and inspire one individual... that's all that matters to me."

Through this platform, Damien hopes to tackle the stigma around mental health and provide a lifeline to fathers who might be struggling in silence. His unwavering commitment to making a positive impact, even if it's one person at a time, speaks volumes about his dedication to this cause.

Lessons in Empathy and Compassion

A Beautiful Gesture

In a touching anecdote shared on the podcast, Damien recounts a moment with his daughter that encapsulates the essence of the lessons he strives to impart. While at a McDonald's drive-thru, his daughter's simple yet profound act of kindness towards a homeless individual demonstrated the values of empathy and generosity that Damien and his wife instill in her.

"Her gesture was just so beautiful… it nearly brought me to tears."

These moments of heartfelt connection not only reinforce the principles Damien values but also highlight the significant impact that nurturing a compassionate environment can have on a child's development.

Looking Towards the Future

Hopes and Aspirations

As Damien continues to build Dad's Daily Digest, his ultimate aspiration is to become a motivational speaker, sharing his journey and insights on a larger scale. By doing so, he hopes to inspire and support more fathers in their quest to raise strong, compassionate daughters while also navigating their own personal challenges.

In concluding his conversation with Dr. Christopher Lewis, Damien leaves listeners with a powerful piece of advice: put life into perspective, recognize your blessings, and approach each day with gratitude. These principles not only shape his parenting philosophy but also serve as a guiding light for fathers everywhere striving to be the best they can be.

This comprehensive blog post captures the essence of the podcast episode, featuring key anecdotes and insights shared by Damien Moore, ultimately providing valuable guidance and motivation for fathers navigating the beautiful yet challenging journey of parenthood.

TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript created using CASTMAGIC)

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to Dads with Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to the Dance with Daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. And every week, I love being able to sit down, talk to you, work with you as you are trying to be the best dad that you wanna be. And as you are trying to raise your daughters into those strong independent women that all of us want for our kids. And I so appreciate that you come back every week to be able to learn, to grow, to be willing to hear the stories of others, and to be able to take those stories and be able to turn them into action. Because it is important. It's important to be able to be willing to listen and to learn and to know that none of us have all the answers. None of us are perfect ads, and nobody has the handbook in regard to what it means and what it takes to be the perfect dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]: There's lots of different ways to father, lots of different ways to be a dad. And you can learn along the way if you're open to it and you're willing to listen and learn from others. That's why this podcast exists. Every week, I bring you different people, different dads, different individuals with resources that can help you to be that dad that you wanna be. And today, we got another great guest with us. Damian Moore is with us. And Damien is a father and also is has has a resource out there called Dad's Daily Digest. So we're gonna be talking about both of those aspects, getting to know him a little bit more, and I'm really excited to have him here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:53]: Damien, thanks so much for being here today.

Damien Moore [00:01:54]: Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:56]: Well, I'm really excited to have you here today. And I always start these episodes with an opportunity to turn the clock back in time. I'd love to go back. I know your daughter is 4 and a half, and I would love to go back and might be 4 and a half years, could be 5a half years. But I wanna go back to the very first moment that you found that you were going to be a dad to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Damien Moore [00:02:18]: Yeah. So I was actually in the UK at the time. I found out the gender. My wife called me. I was visiting family. I'm originally from the UK and France, and I got the call. And it was just ecstatic. I mean, it's you know, I think as a guy, I I always thought, you know, I'd like to have a little boy.

Damien Moore [00:02:35]: But I've always friends of mine who have actually many of my friends had daughters before me. And they, you know, told me just how precious it was and how special it was to have that kind of daddy daughter bond. So, I mean, I was absolutely ecstatic to find out that news. And, yeah, to this day, it's just the greatest feeling, and bond is so true, and I've just loved every minute so far.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:55]: Now I talked to a lot of dads, and and a lot of dads and daughters talk to me about the fact that walking into fatherhood can be scary in general, just being a father, because we don't know always what we're getting into. But being a father of a daughter sometimes brings its own fears. What would you say has been your biggest fear in raising a daughter?

Damien Moore [00:03:14]: I think, as you say, I obviously t to raise a confident, independent girl, one that kind of can can take on the world in her own way. Take on the world in her own way. I don't wanna, you know, control her too much. I wanna her to understand that the world is is a fluid and flexible place that you can kind of embrace in many different ways. And I think being raised by a a very kind of strong mother, you know, she instilled kind of positivity in me every day and just to kind of really embrace the world ahead of us and challenges and and opportunities. And I think I just wanna give her that opportunity every day that life is a beautiful thing and it's embrace every day with kind of open arms. There will be challenges. There will be tough times, and it's how you best prepare them for those moments in life when they one day leave the nest.

Damien Moore [00:03:56]: You know, we have a role as parents to be there for their whole lives until we die, but when they're here at home with us, when we're raising them, we have a responsibility to kind of, you know, keep them safe and make sure that they understand and and teach them in in a in a in a way that's not too I wouldn't say too controlling, but in a way that kind of allows them to understand the world up, you know, outside of the house and be best prepared as possible. Because life can be tough. You know? Life throws all sorts of challenges. And for me particularly, you know, I had my daughter 6 weeks before COVID closed down the world and went through a really personal tough time during that moment because my own family couldn't visit my daughter. Basically, 16 months. They didn't meet her until she was 16 months old, and as a new dad, particularly wanted to celebrate this moment. This was like something you dream of. You celebrate the birth of your first child with your parents, with your your siblings, and it was really tough.

Damien Moore [00:04:44]: They they were 1 week away from coming to America, and then the borders closed, and it was kind of a there's no, like, parenting tips or books that tell you how to parent during a pandemic. It's like, that doesn't exist. So, you know, my wife and I kind of went through the motions of, like, wow, this is actually happening. The world's shutting down. We have a 6 week 6 week old daughter. I was actually freelancing at the time and lost my job as well. So it all happened at a very, very stressful moment, like and it was, like, gonna be this most beautiful thing ever, and it was. Like, you know, the first few weeks was, like, incredible.

Damien Moore [00:05:14]: You know, we've got dogs at home. It's like the dogs are super happy to have this new baby at home, but then the world shut down, and we had to kind of really adjust and figure life out as new parents during a COVID pandemic. And I think those life learnings for me just reiterate how we can best prepare our kids for the unexpected and for, you know, just to be best prepared for the real world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:34]: Definitely a challenging time, and COVID threw us all through a loop in many different ways. But being able to have a child right at the beginning and not being able to allow for your family and others to be able to interact. How did you have to pivot, especially losing a job, having a new child, just a couple of stressors in that situation during that pandemic? How did you pivot to be able to make the most of what you had, but also be able to move forward with being a father and moving into a new job and and other things as well.

Damien Moore [00:06:12]: Yes. I mean, thankfully, even now during COVID and and now, my wife's family is very close to us. So thankfully, we had her support network. So we had her mom, her brothers, and other wider family members around us. So we had that support, which was very needed at the time. Now for me, personally, I I did struggle not having my mom, my dad available right next door. So we're blessed today to have great technology, so FaceTime was critical. You know, we did a lot of FaceTiming, and it's amazing how, you know, from just an early age, how much these children pick up and learn and they recognize faces.

Damien Moore [00:06:45]: So the first time my daughter met my mom when she was 16 months old, she wasn't a complete stranger because she she did recognize her through the FaceTime interaction. So we're lucky today to have that type of technology to stay in touch with members of our family despite the distances. I mean, moving to America, I always knew, you know, building a life here and having a family here would always be different than what I was raised with because I was raised with family members very close to me in the UK. But I knew I was kind of giving, you know, distance between me and my family, so I always knew that my parents always have a different relationship with my daughter than my my brother's daughters who live in the UK. And I was okay with that because I know technology is great today to kind of stay in touch. I mean, from a professional standpoint, on the job side, it was a rough few months. I personally am very I'm kind of an extrovert. I love being around people.

Damien Moore [00:07:30]: I love socializing. So COVID was tough on that side of my own kind of mental challenges. I I was obviously locked at home a lot, so I decided to actually become a waiter during that time. I done waiting very early on in my in my teens, but I decided to become a waiter to kinda get myself out of the house so I could put my mental being in a better place. So at home, I wasn't so stressed and anxious and cooped up in the house. Being a waiter allowed me to get out of the house, socialize with people, it just gave me a better, like, headspace for myself. So I did that for about 8 months. As well as, obviously, it provided some sort of revenue for the family.

Damien Moore [00:08:03]: Not not obviously huge, but it gave me something to kind of keep going. So, I mean, that's how I pivoted during those times.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:09]: You went through some challenging times at the very beginning. You moved into where you are today. Throughout your time in raising your daughter. It's not always going to be positive moments or easy moments. There's definitely challenges along the way. What's been the hardest part in being a father to a daughter?

Damien Moore [00:08:27]: So I think it's adapting to their personalities. They're, you know, they're little unique humans, and I got parented one way. My wife got parented another way. So for me, even those cultural differences from America and the UK, vastly different the way we were parented. So I've had to just adapt. And I've actually embraced the way my wife's parenting style, which is very, I would say, kind of open door policy, very family orientated. It's not to say that I wasn't brought up family orientated, but it's it's just a different style here, and I've actually really embraced it the way we've kind of oriented our child. Both on my wife's side and my and my side, we've kind of come from families with that suffer from depression and and anxiety, and we know this is hereditary.

Damien Moore [00:09:06]: So we we're kind of aware and very conscious about that with our daughter, what kind of traits will she pick up from that, and she is a very anxious toddler. From a very young age, she would withhold, and withholding is when children obviously don't have much control over anything is when they withhold going to the toilet. So withholding their poo, so it's that can be quite stressful for a toddler, you know. They go 2 or 3 days without going to the toilet. And as a parent, we have to start, you know, pivoting and taking care of this because it can get quite serious if there's not she doesn't relieve herself. So we noticed these traits very early on and we kind of read up about it and it's it's typical anxiety within toddlers. And to this day, there's traits we see today. She's very easily startled, for example.

Damien Moore [00:09:44]: So growing up and even like when she was 2, 3 years old, I work in the basement here at home sometimes. And if I just come up through the basement door, she'd easily be startled terrified, absolutely terrified, running, like screaming because a noise startled her. So we've had to really adjust the kind of how we parent her in a way that's kind of, I'd say, really conscious to that to her anxiety, and we make sure that she feels as safe as possible and that we're here. We're here for her. We're here to talk to her. We're here to listen to her. Just to understand those fears and kinda parent her in a way that's, not as I said earlier, not too controlling on her because she needs that control. She's like anxious, so she wants to control situations and she wants to kind of get through them in in her way and and manage it in her way.

Damien Moore [00:10:24]: And I think, you know, we have to learn from our kids as well. Even from a very early age, we adapt as parents based on our kids' personalities. And while she has these anxious moments, she's also just an absolutely beautiful soul. I mean, she's just a delight to be around. She's a lot of fun as well. She likes to dance and giggle and all that. So it's just managing those different personality traits very early on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:44]: So talk to me a little bit about mental health and some of the things that you just were talking about. The fact that, you know, you come from a family that has battled mental health issues. Your wife has as well. You're dealing with your own things that you are working through, whether it's things that you have had that you've brought with you through your own upbringing and your familial ties or the own your own issues that you're dealing with, and you're starting to see those things in your own child. Talk to me about what you've had to do thus far as you've worked with your own child to work through some of these? And what are some of the things that you think that you're going to have to do based on what you're seeing now and what you think may happen, seeing that she's only 4a half at this point?

Damien Moore [00:11:33]: Both my wife and I, we both have, as I said, family history in in kind of depression and anxiety. And I was raised around that as a as a young child, and, my parents got divorced when I was about 6 years old. And, you know, as a child, you're not really aware of what's happening at that age. But as an adult, I've kind of really started questioning it and talking to my dad who suffers from depression to get his side of the story. I wanna understand from him what he went through at literally my age now. You know, he went through a divorce. He had 3 boys. And I was just I wanted to understand the stresses and pressures that he was under because when I went through COVID, as I said, a new dad lost my job.

Damien Moore [00:12:07]: I had my own kind of battles at that time. So he was a great resource for me to talk to. He really kind of helped just explain things to me in certain ways that I was challenging my own self. So he was great to kind of be a a kind of a a person of of resource for me personally during some really difficult times. I think, you know, for our daughter, there are obviously child therapists out there that we, you know, we wanna potentially engage with at some point soon. We've noticed some of these behaviors have died down a little bit, like the the the startling doesn't happen as much now as it used to when she's 2 or 3 years old because some of the things that she just gets used to, her her surroundings and her environment. But we're aware that you know, we constantly talk, my wife and I, about these you know, about the kind of our upbringings and and how this may influence our daughter and and just very conscious and aware of her behaviors. And we're just lucky today, I think.

Damien Moore [00:12:54]: You know, mental health is so much more prominent and so much more spoken. There's more visibility around it today than there was when my parents were growing up. When I spoke to my dad, I remember him saying to me, if he was having a down day, people would just say nip it in the bud, get on with your day kind of thing. That was the attitude. But today, people are so much more conscious about it. You know, companies have better kind of mental health, kind of resources available. So we're definitely lucky in that instance that we can have that access to great resources. I myself have actually personally started therapy for the first time in the last couple of months.

Damien Moore [00:13:23]: I've never had therapy. I've never kind of felt the need of therapy. My wife's had therapy her entire life. So I've just wanted to kind of explore that for myself as an avenue just to kind of speak to someone else, speak to an independent individual that's not kind of part of, you know, my network of family and friends and not my wife's network of family and friends. And I've always just, you know, from the first session or 2, I've actually found it quite liberating just sharing stuff with someone I don't really know. And as I said, I've never done it before, so I'm kinda learning my own ways through therapy. And, you know, we'll tackle that with our daughter when we feel like we need to. We've got, obviously, her doctor we talk to a lot about.

Damien Moore [00:13:56]: We ask her a lot of questions about certain things that, you know, we've noticed, and she gives us great advice already. So, yes, we take it day by day for now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:03]: And it's all you can do. And I know that with all of those experiences, you got motivated. You got motivated to try to start having these conversations with other men, with other fathers, to be able to help individuals through a new venture called Dad's Daily Digest, the blog TikTok that you're trying to engage people to talk to people inspire people in different ways. Talk to me about Dad's Daily Digest Outside of what I just said, what were some of the impetuses for why you wanted to move in this way to be able to engage with other men in this way?

Damien Moore [00:14:39]: The real motivation, my uncle committed suicide when I was probably my early twenties. I've had a friend commit suicide as well through alcohol abuse. Again, I was in my mid twenties when that happened. So I've been exposed to suicide, and I know the effects it hap it has on families. And when COVID hit, I started seeing the suicide rates going up. You know, you read about it in the news, you see it, and it disproportionately affects men. And I think last year, I think it was about 50,000 people commit suicides in the US alone last year. I think 80% of those were men.

Damien Moore [00:15:10]: Now these statistics are alarming. And, you know, having gone through it with my uncle and knowing, you know, the pain and and it causes families is I wanted to create a platform of of sorts to, I guess, inspire people and also just maybe give tips and advice on life, having been through these experiences myself and knowing what it does to families. So I've started this, as you say, Dad's Daily Digest, where I wanted to share some of my own struggles I've gone through from my professional career to my personal life. And I said to myself, even if I just touch one person and inspire one individual from potential changing their mind on the way they go in life, that's all that matters to me. I'm not here to, like, change the whole world, but it's like I wanna make a little dent in that space. I wanna inspire men and be a resource of some sort of resource and maybe give tips and advice through that platform, and just to show that life is tough. I mean, we go through struggles, but you can persevere and you can really kind of rely on others. And I am very lucky.

Damien Moore [00:16:10]: I know I'm very lucky that I've got a great network around me. I've really got a supportive family. I've got a supportive wife, and I've got her family that support me. So I know I'm blessed to have that, and I know some people don't have that necessarily. So if they just reach out through a platform and just wanna get ask a question or have a concern, I wanna be someone there potentially to help them. I just you know, as I said, even just touching one person's life would be would mean a lot to me. I've just started creating this platform just to kinda get content out there and be a bit more of a voice in that space to hopefully inspire other men.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:41]: Now you've just started this platform. You're starting to get words out there. What are you finding thus far in the conversations that you're having with people that you're interacting with?

Damien Moore [00:16:49]: It's been actually quite lovely. I've actually came to a few dads who have similar TikTok channels, and I think it's just relatable. We you know, obviously, each family is unique in the way they bring their their children, but there's so much we can relate to, so many similar funny situations, stressful situations that you go through being a parent. So it's nice to know that there's a community of us out there in that space, giving this kind of motivation, inspiration for others. So it's nice to know that you're not alone out there, kind of, trying to do this. There are other people out there. I mean, even yesterday, I posted a video. My daughter did this really touching thing, and I just had to share it in the moment.

Damien Moore [00:17:24]: I was taking her through to a Happy Meal at McDonald's, and we got approached by a homeless person at the window. Now I could see he really needed help, and he was actually you know, he didn't come too close to my window. He saw I had a young child, but he slowed a certain distance, and then he said, you know, I don't want money, I just want food. So I said, absolutely. What would you like me to get you? I'm putting the order in. He goes, just a burger and a bottle of water. So I said, absolutely. I'll get you a burger and a bottle of water.

Damien Moore [00:17:46]: And my daughter reached over to give him a dollar bill because she likes to pay the person now at McDonald's money, she likes to do the kind of transaction. So she had this dollar bill in her hand, she gave it to him, and then he brought him to tears and then he brought me to tears because I was like, this gesture was just so beautiful, and even that post alone has kind of really reiterated that people just how beautiful these little moments. I mean, these children are so innocent, and it's just you know, I then had a whole conversation with her about homeless people because she wasn't you know, she was like, who is that person, daddy? Like, what what is he doing? And, you know, she wasn't used to this interaction with with a homeless person. So I come out to explain to her that homeless people are unfortunate individuals that don't have a home. We and I said, we're really lucky. We go to a home. We have a warm bed to sleep in. We can shower.

Damien Moore [00:18:30]: And she even asked me, she goes, how does he shower? So, you know, she was really inquisitive about this individual. So I had to kind of, you know, explain to her, unfortunately, there are people out there that don't have homes and don't have families, and it's, you know, really tough on them. So and that's why I said to her. I said, your generosity was just so beautiful, Jessa, and it was so beautiful, and I just thanked her for that moment because I just, yeah, it got it nearly nearly brought me to tears. So I think, you know, and just seeing the the reaction to that video alone was just really nice, People kinda really sharing, like, their positivity around kind of that parenting and positivity around the child's behavior, and it's just great to see that there is this community out there for for people that that may need it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:07]: It definitely warms your heart when you can see that and be able to be have that renewed sense of humanity that sometimes gets lost along the way. And sometimes we get lost in our own lives that it takes a child in the pure way that they see the world to be able to make us take a step back and say, Oh, yeah, you're right. I lost that along the way. And I got a good reminder today.

Damien Moore [00:19:38]: Exactly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:39]: So as you look at what you're doing right now, what you're putting out into the world, what you're trying to create, as you think about the future, where do you want this to go?

Damien Moore [00:19:48]: For now, if I just touch a few individuals' lives, that would mean the world to me. You know, I think from from a personal standpoint, I'd like to have a stronger voice in that community. And, I mean, I think the ultimate goal one day, I would love to become a a motivational speaker. As I said, I'm an extrovert. I love being around people. I love, you know, trying to share my positivity and energy. I I kind of absorb other people's energy, and I would like to, you know, hopefully one day turn that into me being out there and being a strong voice and just helping people on more of a larger scale than just, you know, kind of a small platform for now. So, yeah, that's essentially where I'd like to go one day.

Damien Moore [00:20:22]: Yeah.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:23]: I love it. It. Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Damien Moore [00:20:31]: Sure. Yeah.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:32]: In one word, what is fatherhood?

Damien Moore [00:20:34]: Beautiful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:34]: Now I know your daughter's only 4 and a half, but I'm gonna still ask this question. When was the time that you finally felt that you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Damien Moore [00:20:42]: I mean, even yesterday's moment was very touching. I guess when I see her sheer generosity and empathy and compassionate to other people. I've been a strong believer in actually raising my daughter around animals because of what that actually teaches children from a very young age. It teaches them responsibility, teaches them compassionate, empathy. Fortunately, it also teaches them about about death because we've had a couple of dogs die since she's been born and kind of explains to her what death is. But I think just seeing this beautiful girl through her life learnings and just seeing it kind of come out into the world to other people is a joy to see. So I think I take that as a success every day.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:19]: Now if I was to ask your daughter, how would she describe you as a dad?

Damien Moore [00:21:22]: Probably say I'm quite silly. I like to do a lot of silly dancing with her. Ever since she was young, I I personally quite like my EDM music, and I like to get her into my DJs, so she's always kind of danced along to me. But I think also she probably I'm the one that's the slightly firmer one when it comes to consequences in the house. I think, you know, we all experience tantrums. We all experience that kind of naughty behavior. From about 3a half, 4 years old, she's been kinda testing the waters in terms of retaliation and testing, like, how far she can test her parents. So I probably am the firmer one compared to my wife.

Damien Moore [00:21:56]: I like to give more consequences if I if I have to. So I don't know if I should use that, but I hopefully I think it should lead with silliness and fun because, personally, I had a good upbringing, but I wasn't necessarily raised by a dad who was silly and very fine and engaging. I was raised by great parents, but I don't recall my childhood memories as being silly and, like, just goofing around a lot. So I've wanted to instill that a lot in my parenting as my own you know, being a dad to my daughter. I just want it to be, like, lots of silliness and embrace that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:27]: And if you think about this in, let's say, 15 years, what do you want her to say then?

Damien Moore [00:22:32]: I hope she says that I've prepared her as best as pop as possible for the world. You know, I want her obviously to look up to me as as an inspiring figure in her life. I want her to feel that I've given her the most I possibly can in life. I've given her safety. I've given her a good upbringing. So, yeah, that they would be the things I'll dream of in terms of her saying to me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:51]: Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Damien Moore [00:22:53]: I have to say my mom. Because just knowing some of the upbringings that my family members have been through, I've always kind of just really pushed myself to be a better person. And I think she's always been there as my person that I go to whenever I reach my lowest moments. I always call her. She's my, you know, she's kind of carried me through many, many struggling moments in life, and she will still ahead in the future. And she's just my go to person for that. And she's definitely been my inspiration in life and inspired me to be a better dad, for sure.

Damien Moore [00:23:23]: Now you've given a lot of piece of advice today, things for people to think about, things to ponder, for people to consider for their own mental health and being able to do what they have to do. As you think about any father, no matter what their situation, what's one piece of advice that you'd want to give to every dad?

Damien Moore [00:23:42]: For me, personally, I've always liked to put things into perspective. I know we have to recognize our individual life and the stresses we deal with and not to ignore them. But at the same time, put things into perspective and just say to yourself, things could be so much worse. There's so much happening out there in the world where there are errands going through a lot harder things than you may be yourself. And I think it's important just to take a moment sometimes and just pause in that moment and say, do you know what? I'm blessed to have what I have right now. Like, I'm so thankful and share that gratitude and love to the people around you. And just know that it it can be so much tougher on other people in life. And I think just recognizing that and trying to instill that into your daily life a little bit, it's something I've always tried to live by just growing up. And I definitely share that kind of as my one kind of piece of advice to people.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:33]: Well, Damian, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your own journey today, for sharing what you have gone through thus far, for sharing the resource that you're putting together. If people wanna find out more about you, where should they go?

Damien Moore [00:24:46]: Yeah. So the the Dads Daily Digest website is is dadsdailydigest.co. And there's, yeah, there's a way you can reach out to me there. And there's also a TikTok channel if you wanna engage through TikTok. And also, I mean, I have a LinkedIn as well. So you can type my name in Damien Moore Evans, and you'll find me on LinkedIn as well. So happy to people if they choose to.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:04]: Well, Damien, thank you for being here today, and I wish you all the best.

Damien Moore [00:25:07]: Thank you so much, Christopher. I appreciate it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:09]: If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out atfatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week all geared to helping you raise strong and power daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:07]: We're all in the same boat And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your AK. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen, get out and be the world to them. You're the best dad you can be. You're the best dad you can be.

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Family First: Embracing the Realities of Fatherhood

Fatherhood is a journey filled with joy, challenges, and countless learning moments. In our recent episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast,we had the pleasure of hosting Brian Piper and his daughter Libby. This engaging conversation shed light on the intricacies of fostering a strong father-daughter bond, emphasizing empathy, support, and mutual growth.

The Initial Steps: Embracing the Unknown

Brian Piper candidly shared his initial reaction to fatherhood. Like many new fathers, Brian felt a mix of excitement and fear. He was initially terrified but quickly embraced the journey as a valuable learning experience. Understanding the emotional and intellectual differences between men and women was one of his primary concerns when raising his daughter, Libby.

Libby also offered her perspective on the various activities her dad encouraged her to try. From cheerleading and soccer to rock climbing and snowboarding, Brian's support helped Libby find her passions and joy in unexpected places. Their shared skydiving experience stands out as a testament to his encouragement and her bravery.

Open Ears and Open Hearts: Listening Versus Fixing

A significant part of the episode focused on the challenges of raising daughters, especially the balance between listening and solving their problems. Brian highlighted the importance of listening without judgment and providing empathetic support, something often more required by daughters than sons.

Libby emphasized that sometimes she needs her dad to listen and provide empathy rather than immediate solutions to her problems. This approach has helped her feel supported and understood. Fathers must remember to ask if their daughters want advice or just a sympathetic ear at that moment, fostering better communication and stronger relationships.

Skydiving and Small Steps: Overcoming Anxiety Together

Libby's journey with anxiety and how her father has been there for her with unwavering support was another crucial discussion point. Brian has used techniques like walking her through worst-case scenarios to help alleviate her anxiety. This method allows Libby to process her emotions and face her fears more manageable.

The skydiving experience shared between them illustrates this dynamic beautifully. Despite her initial anxiety, Libby found joy and excitement in the activity, thanks to her father's encouragement and support. This shared adventure not only helped her overcome a significant fear but also strengthened their bond.

Thriving Amidst Technology: Discussing AI and Social Media

In today's digital age, navigating AI and social media is an inevitable part of parenting. Brian, with his expertise as a marketer and content expert, highlighted the ethical considerations and the need for open discussions about these technologies with children. Libby, coming from an environmental major background, shared her concerns about AI's potential negative uses, reflecting her thoughtful approach to the impact of technology on society.

These conversations around the dinner table, although sometimes challenging, are crucial for preparing children to make informed decisions about technology usage responsibly.

Finding Opportunities and Walking the Path Together

Libby's approach to seizing opportunities by breaking tasks into manageable steps is a valuable lesson in personal development. This method, akin to how Brian taught skydiving, emphasizes the importance of self-belief and recognizing personal capabilities.

Brian's reflections on parenting six children underscore the significance of personalized attention, open communication, and equitable responsibility-sharing with his partner. The value of family dinners as moments of connection and fun further highlights his commitment to family values.

Conclusion

In wrapping up the episode, Dr. Christopher Lewis reiterated the importance of community and shared learning as vital tools in the journey of fatherhood. The insights from Brian and Libby Piper's experiences remind us to balance listening and fixing, support our daughters as they face their fears and challenges, and engage them in meaningful conversations about technology and personal growth.

Fatherhood, as stressed throughout the "Dads with Daughters" podcast, is not about finding a one-size-fits-all approach. It's about being present, empathetic, and open to learning from our children and each other. With resources like the "Fatherhood Insider" and the vibrant "Dads with Daughters" community, fathers can find the support and guidance they need to raise strong, independent daughters.

For more insights and to join the conversation, visit fatheringtogether.org, and stay tuned for more empowering episodes on the "Dads with Daughters" podcast.

TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript created with CASTMAGIC)

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to Dads with Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to the dads with daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, I love being able to be on this journey with you. You know, I've got 2 daughters myself. I love being able to talk to you, talk with you, walk with you as we go down this path to be able to raise our daughters and to figure this out along the way, because there is no right way way to father. Every one of us is gonna do things a little bit differently, and that's okay. But what's most important is that we are open to listening, to learning, not only to listen and learn from our kids, but also to listen and learn from other fathers that are have gone before us, are going through it right now because we can learn a lot of things, a lot of tools that we can put into our own toolbox that we can then put into action. So that's why this podcast exists.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:10]: It is here to help you. And every week I love being able to bring you different people, different guests with different experiences that help you to be able to grab some of those tools for your toolbox. This week, we've got 2 new great guests that are joining us. Brian Piper and his daughter, Libby are with us today. And we're gonna be talking about their journey together as father and daughter, but also gonna be talking about some of the other experiences that that Brian's had as a father of 6 and more. So Brian, Libby, thanks so much for being here today.

Brian Piper [00:01:42]: Thanks so much for having us, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:43]: It is my pleasure. Love being able to be here to talk to both of you today. And I always start off by turning the clock back in time. So I Brian, I wanna go all the way back. I wanna go back to the first moment that you found out you were going to be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Brian Piper [00:01:57]: I was terrified, really. I do a lot of things that, you know, get my, adrenaline going and put me out on the edge, but I really had no concept of what it was, you know, gonna be like to be a father and then to be a father of girl. It was very daunting, but, you know, I've always accepted challenges and kind of, you know, jumped head first into them my whole life. So I figured this would be a great learning experience.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:22]: It definitely is a learning experience. And I know that I talk to a lot of dads that say what you just said in the sense that there's fear. And I think there's fear not only with becoming a father in general, but there's fear also in becoming a father to a daughter because it's an experience that we have not lived in many in for the most part and we can't we can empathize, but we can't always understand. But I guess as you think back and you think to the time that you've had with Libby and your other kids too, but as you think back to raising a daughter and that fear that you talked about, what was your biggest fear in raising a daughter?

Brian Piper [00:02:55]: Well, first of all, just making sure to to keep them alive. That was a key. But, just being able to understand them because I grew up with a brother. You know, I had a great relationship with my mother, but that's a very different relationship than you have with a child. And just knowing that women are very different than men emotionally and intellectually. And so I just wanted to make sure that I was gonna be able to connect with her and help her and, you know, help provide her the tools to make her a better person than I am.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:24]: So let's talk about experiences. You said you wanted to build those experiences. And and having memories, building experiences is definitely important. You talked about being an adrenaline junkie and, you know, you and I have talked about that and the things that you enjoy doing, but I'm gonna turn this over first to Libby. Libby, I guess as you think about experiences that that you've had with your dad, what's been the most memorable experience that you've had thus far with your dad?

Libby Piper [00:03:49]: I think since I was young, he's always been, like, very encouraging to try everything, like, despite your interest level in it. So I've, like growing up I tried everything. I was put into like cheerleading, soccer. I have no athletic ability. I'm a theater kid and did not thrive in that situation. But he does a lot of things and sometimes that becomes an issue, but I've tried rock climbing and I love that and I don't know if I would have thought that I would have enjoyed that. Snowboarding, I've tried and there have been a lot of times in trying out these new things that at first I struggled a lot with them or like did not enjoy them at first. The first time he took me snowboarding, I cried and we ended up walking down the whole hill.

Libby Piper [00:04:44]: But now I love snowboarding and I go out on my own. I'm in the ski club at school. I skydive which is kind of shocking because I've always been pretty filled with fear. But he really just encourages me to try things that I wouldn't think I would enjoy. And now this year at school, I'm trying all these different clubs that I don't know if I'm gonna like them, but we'll see.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:06]: And Brian, what was your most memorable experience?

Brian Piper [00:05:09]: Yeah. I mean, just doing experiencing all the activities and just watching the lights come on, you know, when when she finds something that she connects with or that she enjoys, you know, getting her involved in in theater and seeing her up on stage just glowing and, you know, just loving the audience and the reaction and the interaction. We've been skydiving together numerous times over the last year and a half, and, it's just so great to see her in in free fall just with a huge smile on her face and just having so much fun and just so excited. So that's the most encouraging part for me is just watching the lights come on and and things start to click, and she's like, I can do this.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:49]: Now raising kids is not always easy, Brian. And there can be high points. There can be low points, and everything in between. And as you think back to raising your daughter, what was the hardest part in being a father to a daughter?

Brian Piper [00:06:03]: I think, you know, and this applies to, being married as well. It's listening without judging and also without trying to help. And I know you've talked about this on previous episodes as well. We wanna fix things. We wanna solve problems. And a lot of times, they just want someone to empathize and to listen and to know that they're going through challenging things. And when I start throwing out ideas, well, you could do this or you could do this. It's like, no.

Brian Piper [00:06:27]: I don't wanna do that. I just want you to know that I'm I'm experiencing anxiety or fear or pain, and, you know, I just want you to empathize with me. So that's a big difference between, you know, boys and girls. You mentioned we have 6 kids between my wife and I. There's 5 boys, 1 girl. So it's very different providing that parenting and that emotional support for girls is much more challenging, but also much more rewarding. Because you give the answer to the boys, and they're like, oh, okay. You know? And they go do it.

Brian Piper [00:06:56]: And you give it to to Libby, and and she thinks about it and processes it and comes back with her thoughts on it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:02]: I don't know if I agree with you. Maybe that's a nice way of saying it.

Brian Piper [00:07:05]: Yeah. A lot of that.

Libby Piper [00:07:06]: Yeah. No. It happened just the other day. I think I can't remember. I was complaining about something. I don't remember what I was complaining about. But I vase I went to him and I I think my legs hurt or something. This was like 2 days ago, but I was like I don't feel good.

Libby Piper [00:07:21]: My legs hurt. And he's like well did you take something? I'm like no. Just just just tell me you're sorry. And he's like, I'm sorry you guys are. I'm like, thank you. That's all I wanted. He's like, I know.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:32]: So Libby, give us some advice here because I think a lot of dads go right to the fixing, and that being able to be on the other opposite end when you're raising daughters and being able to hear and listen and not always fix is not always the go to modality that we go to. So as someone that has grown up with a father that likes to fix, what are some things that you might say to other dads that also do the same thing when it comes to connecting with their daughters?

Libby Piper [00:08:07]: I think it really depends on the situation and what you're trying to fix because sometimes I'll have a problem and I'm, like, completely shut down to it, and I don't think there's a solution, and I'm just, like, upset about it. And he'll come in and be like, well, you can do this. And I am not in the mood to change things. I am not in the mood to fix things. I can't process that right now. I don't wanna deal with that right now. Just don't fix things right now. But I think if I'm explaining a situation and he has ideas to fix things, I think just before shouting them out and before just being like, oh, here's the solution.

Libby Piper [00:08:42]: Here's why I have the answer to your problem. I think that's a big thing about it. It's like, oh, I have the answer to your no. Do you do you know the problem in its entirety or do you you're just wanting to help. You just wanna make it better and I know that. But I think before you give me the solution that you have, maybe ask me if I'm open to hearing solutions or like if I'm ready to hear a solution. Because a lot of times I'll say 8 times that time. The solution he gives me is very helpful, but I'm just not always open to hearing it in that moment.

Libby Piper [00:09:14]: So I think that the solution is helpful, but I'm just not always ready to hear it at that moment. So sometimes I need a second of empathy just before I hear the solution.

Brian Piper [00:09:25]: And you've given that advice on your show before, Chris, is to ask sometimes. I do this with my I find myself doing this with my wife now more too. It's like, do you want a solution? Do you want some, you know, ideas about ways to solve this or not? So that's been very helpful from the podcast for me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:39]: Well, I appreciate that. And and I can't take credit for that because a previous guest did bring that up to me, an author from out on the West Coast and she said in her practice of being a psychologist and working with dads, that's one of the pieces of advice that she gave is to talk to your daughters from the very beginning and saying, is this a listening conversation or a fixing conversation? And I wish I had started that at a very young age with my daughters. Because if I went and said that to my daughters now, they'd probably look at me like I was an alien and been like, what have you been reading? Because that's just weird. Now doesn't mean that it still can't work, like you said, Brian, in trying to incorporate some new language into the processes that you have with your own wife, but you may still get some strange looks along the way. And that's okay. That's okay. It's a process of, of learning and getting better. So that's what this is.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:33]: That's what it's all about. Now, I know you both just talked about the fact that some of the memories that you've had, you've been able to do some things that may have pushed you, Libby, but also things that you enjoy doing Brian. So let's talk about the skydiving because I know Libby, you said skydiving was not something you ever thought that you would do, but that you ended up doing it with your dad. So talk to me about that experience. What led you up to wanting to do that when you said that you were fearful and that you were willing to go and do it and what was the experience like?

Libby Piper [00:11:04]: I really grew up around skydiving. So I grew up with a pretty good, like, understanding of the safety of it. Whereas other people look at it and they're like, oh my god. What are you doing? You're gonna die. And I grew up watching him skydive and obviously he's a pretty big role model so obviously I was gonna try it. There's there's kind of this like expectation, I think, with all of us all of us kids that we will try skydiving. Some of us have so far and some of us haven't. But I knew I was gonna try it at least.

Libby Piper [00:11:35]: But I have dealt with anxiety a lot before and just like that spiral thinking. And I remember being in the car with him on the way to AFF, which was like my skydiving training. And I was gonna do my first jump all by myself and I was so scared because I was like, who is letting me do this? What how am I just like allowed to go and jump out of a plane on my own, just responsible for myself? How is that possible? I do not have the capability to do this. This is not something I can do. And we, like, slowed things down and we would, like, talk through all my emergency stuff and, he's been doing this forever. Mostly. And it was kind of just like that first push. And I feel like that's typically how I work for the most part.

Libby Piper [00:12:31]: It's like that anxiety leading up to the thing is always so much worse than actually doing it because I do it now and I love it. And always in the plane, I'm always anxious and I will turn to my dad and I will walk him through my entire jump step by step before we go and get out of the plane because I'm still anxious about it. Like I still realize that it's not a completely safe activity but I feel a lot more safe definitely because I can do it with him. And I think it's an even more important hobby to me because I can do it with him. I think that's one of my favorite things about it is that it's something that is really special for both of us and I love that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:11]: So one of the questions that I would ask because you were just were talking about dealing with anxiety, and I think that a lot of kids today deal with mental health issues in their own ways, whether it's anxiety, whether it's depression. There's there's a lot of things that they that compound upon themselves, and parents sometimes are at a loss to how best to support their children as they're struggling through things like that. And I don't know if you're willing to talk about it, but I would love to get your perspective on for someone that has dealt with anxiety and mental health issues in that way, how has your dad supported you through that? What has he done well? And what should other fathers do to be able to support their kids if they are struggling with similar such issues?

Libby Piper [00:13:59]: I think, like, we were talking about earlier is just one of the big thing is, like, listening and just like being quiet for a second and like sitting with those thoughts. And then he typically helps me realize that most of those thoughts I'm like creating for myself. Like I'm creating that anxiety for myself. So we'll go through in a lot of situations, not skydiving because that's a little bit of a worst case scenario there. But I've done public speaking and I'll get really anxious beforehand and he'll talk me through. He's like, okay, what is the worst possible outcome? Like, okay, it's this. He's like, is that really that bad? No. Okay.

Libby Piper [00:14:36]: So what's the best possible outcome? This. That's pretty great and so it's kind of finding that middle ground. What do you think is the worst thing? Do you think that is actually going to happen? Most of the time it's not. Most of the time that's a pretty small chance and it's kinda just like working backwards from your anxiety and then getting yourself back to that clear headspace which is is sometimes a really hard thing to do. But I think the longer you sit with it and the longer you talk about it and the more, like, interested in listening you are, the easier that is to kind of rewind yourself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:12]: So it sounds like your dad's been able to provide you with a lot of tools, a lot of things to be able to not only process things, but also to set yourself up for the path that you're on now. What are some of the things that that Brian did to be able to help you to not only get on that path, but to become the woman that you're becoming today?

Libby Piper [00:15:33]: I think one of the biggest things, again, like I said earlier, is to try everything. To just, like, put yourself out there so you can find opportunities for other things. He's big about finding opportunities and opportunity seeking. And I think now for me, that's a big part of who I am. I will go out and look for certain things and find situations that are gonna be the best for me, find the people who are gonna be the best for me. So I think I'm pretty good at looking for those opportunities and recognizing them. I think the anxiety and dealing with the anxiety is a big thing. It was hard for me at school, and the transition from high school to college last year was really difficult for me.

Libby Piper [00:16:19]: So he gave me the advice, him and my stepmom, to just take things one step at a time instead of like looking at the day as like, just one day. It's just like, okay, we're gonna get out of bed now. We're gonna step out of the bed, and then we're gonna get dressed, and then we're gonna walk out of my door, do this, do this, like very very breaking it, like breaking it down so much that it's no longer this big scary unknown and it's, oh, I've walked downstairs before. Okay. I can do that. Let's walk down the stairs. And doing that to, like, get yourself out of bed and to find those opportunities.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:55]: And, Brian, reflect on what Libby just said there. What does that mean to you in what you're hearing?

Brian Piper [00:17:00]: Yeah. It's, you know, it's the same thing we do when we're teaching someone to skydive is you have to break it down into just the individual steps so they're not looking at the whole like, they don't keep in the front of their mind that they're gonna be leaving the plane and, you know, just now you're just taking one more step and one more step, and then you're, you know and I think along that whole process, just encouraging them to believe in themselves and to understand, like, that they have more capability than they think they do, and their self doubt is preventing them from seeing how capable and how strong and how innovative and intelligent they are. But once they start doing that and they start learning, I mean, kids are just sponges. They just soak up knowledge so quickly. And once they get a hold of something, you know, then they just grow so quickly. So I think that's important to to keep the focus really small on individual things that are easy to accomplish. And then that way, it leads towards accomplishing those bigger goals and finding those opportunities.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:02]: Now, Brian, you mentioned that you've got 6 kids between you and your wife with 5 boys, 1 girl. There's a lot of stuff happening in that household. And so I guess reflect on being a father of 6, and I know you're a busy guy as well. So talk to me about balance and how have you been able to balance being a professional, a father, and everything else that you want to be in your life and being able to show up and being able to be present still in the lives of your kids?

Brian Piper [00:18:35]: Well and I think so much of that is really comes down to who who you've chosen to be your partner Because I know my wife is a huge advocate for transparency and honesty. And, you know, whenever things start getting out of balance or, you know, if I'm traveling too much for work or if I'm doing too many activities on the weekends and not doing enough family stuff, we have a very open communication network between all of us in the family where we can just say to each other, you know, we really need you here for this, or, you know, you're doing a little more of this than you should be. And I think just having that communication, because I get in my head, oh, I can do everything. And I have passed that on to my children who I can do all of it. I can do all the things and be very active. And and sometimes someone just has to be able to say, you may be overextending yourself. You may be taking on too much. Think about what you can bring into balance by saying no to some things.

Brian Piper [00:19:33]: I think having that open communication and being able to talk about things. So when people feel like they're being they're not getting as much time as they would like, you can talk about that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:43]: And talk to me also about with 6 kids. You've had 6 different personalities, 6 different individuals with 6 different needs. And I'm not even talking about your wife because that's number 7, but let's talk about your kids. And how did you, as they have been growing up, build those unique relationships with each one of them that you have to do as you are parenting.

Brian Piper [00:20:08]: Yeah. And I think a lot of that comes down to making a point of spending time with each of them individually and having that one on one connection, whether it's, you know, I mean, teaching them how to drive 1 on 1, you're in the car with them for hours at a time. By finding opportunities to talk to them just about their life in general and ask them questions. And not just, like, trying to get into what they're doing every minute of the day questions, but really asking them, well, you know, how did that make you feel, And and why did you like that? And, you know, things that get deeper into kind of their emotions and their thoughts versus just, you know, what they've been up to in their activities. But, yeah, it's definitely a challenge when you, you know, switch from, you know, 1 on 1 to zone defense. You know? There's only so much that you can do. We really make a point of trying to have family dinners where we all sit down and we all share. And, you know, those are some of my favorite times.

Brian Piper [00:21:08]: We're just just laughing and having fun and being goofy and silly with each other. I think that's critical as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:14]: Now professionally, I know, Brian, you've been working as a marketer, as a content expert, as someone that really knows artificial intelligence working within higher education, at this point. And and I know you've got a brand new podcast that's talking about AI in higher education as well. And I wanna talk a little bit about social media, AI, and parenting as well because as a con as someone that has been working in this area, I'm sure you have some thoughts about there's a lot of concerns right now about social media, social media use, incorporating that, or having kids being able to be having that as a part of their lives, but then also with AI now and incorporating that into school and good case usage, and when can they use it, when can't they use it. And it was a lot to unpack there. But as you think about the work that you're doing to aid higher education and in people with these type of struggles that they're having in their own organizations. As you think about as a parent and as we're struggling with these, what do you say what would you say to other parents as we're looking at social media or AI and talking to our kids about these things and helping them to maneuver in this ever changing space?

Brian Piper [00:22:29]: Well, I think I think you actually just said it, Chris, is is talking to your kids about these things. Because, you know, among our six different kids, we have wide ranges of social media usage. We have wide ranges of thoughts about AI. As you know, I'm a big proponent of AI, but my conversations with Libby make me think very, carefully about the ethical uses of AI. I mean, there's some great ways that it can help us to be more human and more authentic and not just replace, you know, tasks that we're doing or get rid of jobs that we have that actually lead to more complicated jobs. If we have AI doing everything that entry level lawyers do, how are we gonna get more experienced lawyers who are gonna be able to do the more complicated things that AI can't do? And that's the same in in higher ed and in research and every job field. So it's really about trying to understand their opinions and their thoughts and not just dismiss those, but really think about, yeah, you got a good point there, and we shouldn't be doing this with these tools. And, you know, these tools do cause a lot of anxiety and stress and social issues.

Brian Piper [00:23:40]: So let's look at how we can use this technology in a a practical way, but also in a ethical, moral way that's gonna elevate humanity and not just make us lazy people with it sit around and let the robots do all the work.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:54]: And, Libby, as you hear your dad talk about that, what is your reaction, and what would you say to parents?

Libby Piper [00:24:01]: I think he kinda hit the nail on the head. I think all of my siblings and I have very different opinions on these things. And like he said, some of us use social media more, some of us use it less. Some of us are really interested in how AI works and some of us just find it like very scary and I find it more scary. I feel like there's a lot of negative uses. So I think that most of our conversation around AI is I'm afraid of this because of x y z, and this is why it scares me, and this is why it's not all like, oh, this is cool that these people have, like, a high functioning robot in their house. Like, this is a little scary. This is a little, like, apocalyptic almost and it freaks me out. Especially like being like an environmental major see a lot of scenarios that end badly and so that's hard for me to come to terms with or a lot of our conversation around the dinner table will be about AI and so it's sometimes like hard for me to

Libby Piper [00:24:56]: listen to around the dinner table will be about AI. And so it's sometimes like hard for me to listen to that and be like, oh yeah, this is great. Oh yeah, let's keep talking about this because I'll be sitting over there. Oh, this is a little scary. But I think we do a pretty good job of talking about this and we were just in the car the other day and I was telling him like, oh, I don't think this is ethical. Actually taking it in and I can see him actually taking it in which makes me feel more validated and makes me feel like I'm not just like being crazy about it, which is very helpful to me. So I think he's pretty good about listening to how we all feel about it. And to my brothers who are like, oh, wait, tell me more about this.

Libby Piper [00:25:34]: Like, tell me how I can use this. And he's pretty good about seeing our individual point of views.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:40]: Well, there's so many ways in which AI touches our lives that some people don't even realize. So I've been having conversations at my own workplace about the use of AI in applying to college. And the questions that arise are you've get you've got some people that say you can't use it at all in the application. But then I say, well, what about Grammarly? Is someone able to grammar check what they've written and use Grammarly for that? What about spell check? That's an AI. You know, there's different pieces like that that makes it very gray and the ethical concerns are out there. And I think that it is important to have these conversations with our kids to be able to help them to think about things and make their own decisions about it in the end. Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I typically ask questions of dads, but because I've got both of you here, both of you are gonna get some questions. So first and foremost, Libby, in one word, what is fatherhood?

Libby Piper [00:26:41]: I'd say encouragement.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:42]: And Brian? Rewarding. Now, Libby, when was a time that you would say that Brian succeeded at being a father to you?

Libby Piper [00:26:51]: I think my mind just goes back to skydiving really and being able to share those experiences together. And I think when I was telling him about my anxiety, he told me that he feels anxiety about it too. Like, it's not just me. He still feels it at how many years have you been skydiving?

Brian Piper [00:27:12]: 34 years.

Libby Piper [00:27:13]: 34 years of skydiving. He still feels that anxiety, and it's a completely valid feeling. He never invalidates my feelings. He always tells me, like, it's understandable that you feel this way, but you don't need to. And so I think that for all the time that I'm fearful, he's a very good father and helps me get out of that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:31]: And, Brian, when was the time that you feel that you finally succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Brian Piper [00:27:36]: Anytime I watch my kids face challenges and then make good decisions or overcome things, and particularly with Libby last summer, 2 summers ago, when she was studying in Spain, she was so far away. It's her first, like, time kind of really on her own. And, you know, we were calling each other, and she was calling me, and she was super sad, and she was homesick, and she was feeling a lot of anxiety. But we were just able to talk through it. I listened a lot. I did give her some tried to give her some helpful resources that she could use. And I knew that if she just hung on and just waited it out and just let herself kind of adapt to the situation, that she was fully capable of turning the situation around, which she did. And she ended up having a fantastic time and loved it so much that she wants to go back.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:25]: Now, Libby, if I was to talk to you and your brothers, how would you describe your dad?

Libby Piper [00:28:31]: I'd say motivated or encourages us to, like, motivate ourselves, and I think we could all agree.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:38]: Now, Brian, who inspires you to be a better dad?

Brian Piper [00:28:41]: My mom and my wife, for sure, and then my father as well, and and mostly my kids. It's means everything to me to watch them doing well and to watch them have fun, and it's great.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:52]: Now we've talked about a lot of different things, things within your own relationship, things that you both learned in the relate in the in the fatherhood journey that, Ryan, that you're on, and and I'm gonna say that through the childhood that you've had, Libby, into adulthood now. Libby, if there was one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad, what would that be?

Libby Piper [00:29:11]: Find ways to individually connect with your daughter and to really seek out one on one time and to just genuinely spend as much time as you can together because that time creates memories and just creates a general oneness for each other. And I tell everyone, my dad is, like, my best friend, and I just really enjoy spending time with him and doing things with him. So I think that makes our relationship a lot better.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:39]: And Brian?

Brian Piper [00:29:39]: Yeah. I'd say just enjoy every minute of it and laugh and have fun, and it's gonna change so fast. And, you know, they're gonna be off on their own before you know it. But also set goals and give yourself priorities so that you're you know, while you're having fun, you're still always taking those small steps towards a bigger goal that you've set for yourself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:00]: Well, I appreciate both of you being here today. Brian, Libby, thank you for your time, for sharing your journey. I know it is not over. It it continues on a day to day basis. If people wanna find out more about you, Brian, where should they go?

Brian Piper [00:30:15]: Go to brianwpiper.com, or you can find me on most social channels at Brian w Piper.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:20]: Well, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here, and I wish you both the best.

Brian Piper [00:30:24]: Thanks so much for having us, Chris. This was great.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:26]: If you've enjoyed today's episode of the dads with daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together dot org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week all geared to helping you raise strong and powered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:24]: We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, We buy them presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

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In a heartwarming episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we speak with Brent Dowlen, a dedicated father and the voice behind The Fallible Man podcast. Brent shares his heartfelt journey of fatherhood, underscoring the value of prioritizing family, embracing transparency, and finding personal purpose.

The Blessing of Fatherhood

Discovering Love with Daughters

Brent Dowlen recounts the heart-stopping moment of holding his first daughter for the first time. He admits that he, like many fathers, was overwhelmed with joy and a touch of terror. "It's real now. This little life is dependent on me," he shares, capturing the duality of excitement and responsibility that comes with fatherhood. He never knew the gender of his children until birth, emphasizing that his main hope was simply for a healthy child.

Fears and Aspirations

Despite his extensive background in youth ministry, Brent was not immune to the fears that accompany fatherhood. His primary concern was setting an exemplary standard, knowing that his daughters would one day seek partners who reflect his character. This realization spurred a significant personal transformation. Brent openly discusses the fears of not living up to the high bar he set and the journey he has undergone to become the best version of himself.

Embracing Transparency

Owning Mistakes and Building Trust

Brent emphasizes transparency and honesty with his children. He candidly shares stories of his past mistakes and life experiences, adapting the depth of these dialogues to his daughters' developmental stages. This approach, he believes, nurtures trust and resilience in his daughters. "Kids will cling to transparency," Brent says. By owning up to his mistakes and maintaining honesty, he sets a robust foundation of trust and respect in his family.

Handling Pain Together

Brent's parenting style includes teaching his daughters practical skills to navigate physical and emotional pains. He recounts holding his daughter during her shots, teaching her to breathe through the pain—an approach he values highly. This practice not only builds resilience but also demonstrates his unwavering support and presence during difficult moments.

The Dynamics of Different Personalities

Unique Bonds with Each Child

Recognizing and responding to the unique personalities of his daughters is another core aspect of Brent's parenting philosophy. His older daughter, who shares his passion for activities, bonds with him through early morning walks and fishing trips. On the other hand, his younger daughter cherishes snuggles and quiet chats. Brent's ability to adapt to their distinct needs strengthens his relationship with each child. "Part of me going for walks in the morning has to do with me trying to stay somewhat healthy. Part of it is I wouldn't trade that time for anything," says Brent, highlighting the precious one-on-one times.

The Fallible Man: A Journey to Better Self

Inspiration Behind the Podcast

Driven by a desire to impact lives positively, Brent launched "The Fallible Man" podcast in 2020. Initially rooted in his background in ministry, his motivation evolved as he sought ways to mentor and guide men, especially those without positive male role models. The podcast strives to redefine masculinity, focusing on self-improvement and purposeful living rather than physical attributes.

Major Takeaways for Men

Reflecting on over 300 episodes, Brent's key takeaway is the critical need for men to discover their unique purpose. "All men were born for a purpose. You inherently have worth because you're a person," he notes. Living in alignment with this purpose, accompanied by humility, paves the way for personal growth and clarity in life's decisions. Brent asserts true masculinity lies in purpose, mission, and authenticity, rather than stereotypical physical traits.

Fatherhood Insights and Advice

Living for Priorities

The podcast episode wraps up with Brent sharing a piece of sage advice: "20 years from now, your boss won't care about how many hours you worked. Your children will never ever ever forget that they were your priority." This encapsulates the essence of Brent's parenting philosophy—being present and making your children feel valued above all else is a lasting legacy of fatherhood.

For those keen to learn more about Brent Dowlen and dive deeper into his insights, visit falliblemanpodcast.com. Brent's extensive work aims to help men navigate their journey of self-improvement, ultimately making a positive impact on their families and communities.

TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript made by CASTMAGIC)

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to Dads with Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to the dads with daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, you and I have an opportunity to be able to talk, to walk this path that we're walking to be able to raise our daughters into those strong, independent women that we want them to be. And I love that we're able to have these conversations because each of us is on our own journey. However, we don't have to do this alone. And it's so important that we surround ourselves with other people with different experiences that can share those experiences with each other. And then we can learn from them. So showing up today is part of the battle.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:58]: You need to show up. You gotta show up for your kids, but you also gotta show up for yourself and you have to be willing to learn because none of us have the perfect playbook when it comes to raising our kids. We have to be open to hearing, listening, and learning from other dads because you know what? They probably have some things they can share. And that's important. It's really important that we're able to learn and grow from each other in that way. That's why every week I love being able to bring you different dads from with different experiences that are able to share those experiences with you so that you can add some new tools to your own toolbox. And today we've got another great guest with us today. Brent Dowlen of The Fallible Man podcast is with us today, and I'm really excited to be able to have Brent with us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:45]: Brent is a father of 2 daughters, and I'm really excited to get to know him a little bit more. Let you get to know him a little bit more and learn a little more about his own fatherhood journey. Brent, thanks so much for being here today.

Brent Dowlen [00:01:57]: Chris, thanks for having me on. I'm really excited to be here. I don't get to talk about being a daddy, a daughter, daddy very often.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:02]: Well, I'm excited to have you on. And what I wanna do is I wanna turn the clock back in time again. And I know you've got 2 daughters, so I'm gonna go all the way back. You said you have a 10 year old and a 12 year old. So I want to go back. Maybe let's say it's 13 years, might be 12 and a half years. But I want to go back to that first moment that you found out that you were going to be a dad to to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Brent Dowlen [00:02:21]: Well, Chris, I didn't actually know I was gonna have a daughter until she was born. My wife and I went the old fashioned route with both our children, had no idea what we were having because I determined a long time ago that I was just hoping for a healthy kid. So many dads find out right off the bat there's something wrong with their kid, and and that's such a hard reality. So my wife had on the side, and we were just glad if our kid was healthy, then we had already won, and it didn't really matter what it was. So but the doctor put my daughter in my arms for the first time. I did the full tilt thing. I was in the delivery room, and I cut the umbilical cord. And, man, I wish I don't know that there are words for that moment when they put your first child in your arms.

Brent Dowlen [00:03:01]: We were a little terrified. My daughter was 3 and a half weeks early, and she was very small. And right off the bat, like, I'm a fairly big guy. I'm 6 foot. I've lifted weights most of my life. And so I'm I'm a fairly husky, big fella. And I was so terrified when they put this beautiful little thing in my hands, and she wasn't the length of my forearm. And I was just, like, looking at this little thing going, oh, wow.

Brent Dowlen [00:03:25]: It's real now. This little life is dependent on me, and I'm terrified and thrilled all at the same time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:31]: So talk to me about that fear because I've talked to lots of dads and a lot of dads say they have fear. Not only fear of just being a father, but especially when it came to being a father of a daughter, sometimes there's fear that is different than having a son or in just becoming a father in general. What would you say has been your biggest fear in raising your daughters?

Brent Dowlen [00:03:55]: That I could live up to setting the bar high enough. From the moment I first looked at my oldest, Abby, I thought I've gotta get it together, man. Because so I have a background in working with kids and youth ministry, particularly in church. To youth minister, I grew up in the church working with children's groups. I was I taught children's bible church and all that stuff growing up. And from the time I was probably in junior high, I started working with younger kids. And it's interesting working with other people's kids, but then all of a sudden, this is a real moment because you've seen mistakes other parents have made. Right? And everybody thinks they have a clue until right? Everybody has an opinion about parenting until you have your own children.

Brent Dowlen [00:04:35]: And then you're like, wow. What a jerk I was. But I had this dawning fear. I was like, how can I possibly become enough, fast enough? Because I knew that my daughters are gonna find a guy just like me. And that terrifies me because I was not a great guy my whole life. And so immediately this fear of how can I live up to setting the bar high enough that one day my daughter's gonna bring home a guy that's not a total dirtbag? Because I know, like, I was not the prize to bring home for some dads. I'm I'm sure I made some dads a little bit grayer, a little bit older. So that was the big fear.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:15]: Talk to me about that because you went through a transition for yourself. You talked about the fact that you were not always the prize to bring home, that you weren't the model man for yourself and for others, let's say. At some point, your daughters may find that out. And have you thought about that? And what are you going to say to your daughters about who you were versus who you are now?

Brent Dowlen [00:05:40]: You know, Chris, actually, this conversation, I've started really early with my children. We have been very transparent with the way we raise our kids. Like, my my children, I have scars all over my body. Like, I have I have found every way to hurt myself along the way. Right? So I have all these scars all over my body. I I lived very fast paced, lots of accidents, lots of mistakes, lots of injuries to prove it over the years. And so my daughters love to hear the stories about the scars. Right? They'll pick a random scar.

Brent Dowlen [00:06:07]: They don't remember the story from. Or and so I've been very upfront the whole time when my daughter's gone. Yeah. I was stupid. I I made some horrible choices. This was one of those dumb things where God smiled on me and I lived through it regardless of how dumb it was at the moment. And so I've tried to be, of course, age appropriate. Right? We haven't gone into some of the dirtbag choices I've made along the way.

Brent Dowlen [00:06:31]: But as it has become more age appropriate, I'm very open to talking to my children about mistakes I've made and about choices I made along my life. And I'm very quick to own up to this was a bad choice. Like, I was in a bad place and making really bad choices. I got into drugs and alcohol for a while and made some poor choices there. And so I've been very forthright about that because one of the things I did take in from being a youth minister into being a dad was kids will cling to transparency. You you can't outlive everything you've ever done. And so many people lie to kids throughout their whole life that you don't have to be perfect. But if you can be honest, if your kids can see that you are honest with them and that you don't pretend to have all the answers, that you're not perfect, that you make mistakes, I'm quick to apologize for things, then there's that that they cling to you because they know if nothing else in your life and their lives, you're real.

Brent Dowlen [00:07:32]: I'm the one who gets to hold my children during shots and stuff like that. I have their whole life. I remember going to get shots from my oldest and she said, daddy, is it gonna hurt? I said, yeah, baby, it's gonna hurt, but it's only gonna hurt for a minute. And I'm right here with you and we're gonna breathe through it like you and I have practiced because I was already teaching her how to breathe through pain before that. I've always been very quick because I have racked up the injuries to teach them this is this is how we get through it. We breathe deep. We stay calm. We focus on our breathing.

Brent Dowlen [00:08:00]: And so I held her arms against her chest and it hurt for a second. And then within a couple of breaths, it was gone. Right? But there was no, oh, oh, it's just a little, you know, none of that nonsense. Just this is who we are. And it's been it's been effective for me so far.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:18]: You know, you talked about that fear that you had at the very beginning. And in raising your daughters and raising kids is not always easy. There's going to be ups and downs and they're gonna throw your curve balls along the way and you're gonna have to learn and kind of be able to pivot as you move along. What's been the hardest part for you in being a father to a daughter?

Brent Dowlen [00:08:43]: I have a very logic based outlook on life and approach to things. I I won't say I'm closed off emotionally, but I have lived through some really dark spots in my life over the years. And so softening up from time to time because I don't want to teach them not to deal with their emotions, but it's also hard sometimes for me to realize, wait, we're processing an emotion now. I need to let this happen. I need to let them feel that and not try and make it okay right away. And sometimes I'm bad at recognizing those things because I deal with a lot of emotional stuff at a very, just logical ones and zeros. My brain is very quick to go. Okay.

Brent Dowlen [00:09:28]: I'm experiencing and feeling this is a reaction to something. Is it gonna help me right now? Is it not gonna help me right now? If it's not gonna help me right now, I shut it down very quickly until there's a better time to deal with it. I still will go back and deal with that, but I look at it from a very exploded diagram view. I start analyzing it immediately and breaking down what's going on, and what I need to do to adjust instead of feeling it and experiencing it. I tend to analyze through it and process things that way. And so with daughters, they're gonna feel things. Your children have very different personalities. My 12 year old, she's like me, she wants to carry the weight of the world on her shoulders.

Brent Dowlen [00:10:06]: And so learning to understand when she's processing something, as opposed to my newly 10 year old, who she's very emotions are on the sleeve. Right? So learning to recognize their emotional needs and responses has been probably one of the bigger pain points for me because it's very easy for me to go and it's not a, I'm a guy thing. I've always been that way. Like, I was a klutzy kid. I had a lot of sinus issues. And so my depth perception was skewed when I was congested. And so I had already had stitches multiple times by the time I was 6. Like, I've been beating myself up for a long time.

Brent Dowlen [00:10:45]: My head looks like a topographical map. And so I learned very early to sort the fear and the emotion out of situations. Sometimes just for the sake of survival. I had to deal with a couple moments of if I lose it now, if I can't stay focused and clear, I'm gonna die before I can get to help. And so I've been this way for a very long time, and it's very different with daughters because, yep, you're gonna experience your emotions and their emotions and the emotions they inflict on everybody else.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:14]: You know, you talked about the fact that kids are different, and they have different personalities. And when you add more than one kid to the mix, you gotta deal with it. And you've already talked about the fact that one of your kids wears her emotion on her sleeves, the other one wears it on their shoulders. And you have to be able to show up for both types of kids, both personalities. You have to build those unique relationships with each and try to find that common ground. Talk to me about that. How have you been able to build that those unique bonds with each of your kids, even though they're very different personalities, very different people, and you have to treat them differently in that way?

Brent Dowlen [00:11:56]: That's honestly one of the fun parts, I think, about being a dad, girl dad. So my oldest, we process things. She processes things much closer to the way I do. So in learning to deal with her and and her emotional needs, I found she wants to get involved with things. Right. So we go for walks. Like she gets up with me at 4, 4:30 in the morning and we go walk 2 miles on a regular basis. And that is how she connects with me.

Brent Dowlen [00:12:25]: And really that one on one time she wants to connect and walk, but not be, it's our own doing. My wife was a tomboy. And so both of us would actually tend to go to the male characteristic of dealing with emotions and communicating and that's side by side as opposed to face to face. And so Abby is much more likely to talk to me while we're out walking or she likes to fish. I hate fishing. I suck at fishing, but I have learned to go fishing because my 12 year old loves to go fishing. So we go fishing regularly. I got all the good fishing gear.

Brent Dowlen [00:12:58]: My brother and I took him camping when they were a couple years younger, and they had such a great time. He's a big mountain guy. Like, he's mister mountain kinda thing. So he took him fishing and she's been fishing ever since. And we got back from that trip and I went, okay. And I went to Walmart and I found a nice older gentleman on the fishing aisle. And I said, I don't know anything about fishing, but my daughter likes it and I wanna be able to take her. So what do I need to know? And he had a great time teaching me what I need to know to take her fishing.

Brent Dowlen [00:13:25]: It's side by side. It's while we're fishing. It's while we're walking. That's how she wants to process. And she does better. Like, she has a better outlook. She stays more positive. She processes things more if I keep her doing things like that.

Brent Dowlen [00:13:38]: So part of me going for walks in the morning has to do with me trying to stay somewhat healthy. Part of it is I wouldn't trade that time for anything Cause that is solid gold time. The youngest one, she wants to cuddle still. At 10, she is very her safe place and both of them to this day at 10 and 12. Like I had both of them, one on each side of me last night, just wrapped under my arms on the couch because daddy is still the safe place. I'm loving that part of being a dad that they're still at 10 and 12, that's where they wanna be. When they're tired, when they're exhausted, they wanna be right up next to me. But my 10 year old, she wants to be much more snuggly when she's processing stuff.

Brent Dowlen [00:14:15]: She needs the quiet. She needs the face to face. She just wants to be held and listened to. She went with me to run an errand the other day and talked. We drove an hour. The closest Home Depot is like 45 minutes away from me. So she talked all the way there and all the way back and told me about these books she's reading. And I loved listening to her talk about it because as she's talking about those books, she's talking about things she read in those books that she wants to understand, that she's identifying with.

Brent Dowlen [00:14:47]: And so there, I hear about it with her, but then it's afterwards in the face to face moments, in the quiet moments when it's just us that she wants to dig into that stuff. So I feel like winning because my kids wanna talk to me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:00]: I love that. And it changes as they get older, but it's so important when you have those opportunities to take advantage of them, especially as they're young. But even as they get older, if they're willing to give you the time, you take it. Because as they get older, they're gonna pull away a little bit more. And if you've built those strong relationships now, it's what's going to pave the way for the future.

Brent Dowlen [00:15:23]: I'm actually really excited about the future. Like, everybody's like, just wait till they're teens. I spent 20 years of my life working with teens. Like, that's my forte. It was this this when they're young and can't communicate, that drove me nuts as dad. Like, that was the hardest part about being a dad was when they're too little to tell you what's hurting or what's making them feel bad or what's like, I was losing my mind. I punched a hole in the wall one day because it's like, oh, right. I felt so powerless, but I'm looking forward to the teen years just because it's like, I understand that age group and that it's gonna be exciting.

Brent Dowlen [00:15:57]: My oldest is gonna make me old really quickly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:59]: I tell people that the gray that you see in my hair is not because I'm old. It's because I have daughters. So I don't know that that's really the case, but I can joke about. So one of the things I wanted to talk to you about is you've got a great resource out there that you've developed over the last few years and called The Fallible Man and The Fallible Man podcast. And congratulations, you're just going to be putting out, or actually by the time that this goes out, you're going to have passed that 300th episode, which is amazing. So I guess I wanna go back in time and tell me the story of The Fallible Man because podcasting is not easy. It takes time. It takes a lot of time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:38]: It takes a lot of effort. And you gotta be pretty passionate about the topic to be able to keep it going for so long. So talk to me about The Fallible Man. What made you decide that you wanted to jump into this and put all this blood, sweat, and tears into it for as long as you have to put all this content and information out there for the masses?

Brent Dowlen [00:16:58]: You know, it's funny because I told this story many times. And there are still days I question my own story on this. It's like, is that really what was driving me at the time? So The Powell Man, we started in 2020. And it really started with I had the sense of urgency that I needed to start to impact people. I told you I have a background in ministry, and I left ministry several years ago now about 18. And but I grew up around it. My dad was a preacher. And so it been ingrained my whole life.

Brent Dowlen [00:17:30]: I feel like I need to serve people and impact people in a positive way. It's why I got into youth ministry. And we had several female friends. We used to have about 14 people over every single week, 14 to 16, One night a week, all our friends would come up, just show up at our house. And we'd cook the main meal, and people would bring stuff. We kept pot pot pota kinda meal because it got too expensive because we were going out to a restaurant. It's this nice Italian place once a week, every week. And it just got too expensive for everybody, so we moved to my house.

Brent Dowlen [00:17:58]: But I would listen to our female friends get frustrated about their boyfriends or their husbands. And I started becoming the translator for them. They'd be like, oh, he's doing this. I was like, that's not what's actually happening. You understand that. Right? They're like, no. And so I would start translating for these guys who usually weren't there and didn't really know how to translate what they were doing or what was actually happening to this young woman. And I actually had people prodding me to write a book for women about men.

Brent Dowlen [00:18:28]: And I was like and this was before the term mansplaining became popular, but it's like all the warning lights went off. I'm like, nope. Nope. That's just gonna end badly. Right? So the years kept going and we had kids. And I started thinking about it because I have I have 7 nieces or no. 9. Nine nieces.

Brent Dowlen [00:18:45]: Between the two sides of the family, I have 9 nieces. There's a lot of girls in my life. And I have some that are my on my side of the family because I'm the baby. My oldest brother's daughters are now all in their twenties. One of them is almost 30, and I've watched them grow up. Right? And I watch all these teenage girls I worked with, and I'm watching my younger nieces now. I'm looking at this like, how do I make an impact for them? And then my daughters came along. And I was like, how do I make an impact that can truly do something for them? And like a lot of dads, when I became a dad, I kinda started on this journey of self improvement because I was terrified I wasn't going to be able to set a good enough example for my kids.

Brent Dowlen [00:19:25]: And so I started down this journey for myself and eventually it led me to it was like, well, that's what I can do, is I can help other men who are somewhere on that journey. And so part of it was this need to impact people in a positive way. And then how do I solve this other problem of how do I help young men, especially in a time where there are more and more men growing out without positive male role models in the home? For whatever reasons, no no judgments on that's not that's not my place. For whatever reason, there are a lot of young men growing up without positive male role models in the home. And I was on a forum just the other day on Reddit and I wanted to cry reading this post. And it's like, we have no one to show us how to be men because y'all have can't agree on what that even is at this point. What masculinity is supposed to look like. And I'm reading is like this was maybe 2 days ago.

Brent Dowlen [00:20:16]: I was reading this forum. And it's like, this is why I'm doing this. Because I can't help everyone. But how can I reach the most people to encourage men who are on that journey to grow into their best selves, whether they had a good influence or they had a bad influence, there becomes time when you decide to do it for yourself? So how do I help those guys? And so I started my show and then I started having guests on to fill in the gaps that I couldn't necessarily talk about, but it started with my journey trying to become the best version of me. So that's my daughter c. And then, how can I help other men make that journey, so that one of these days, there are positive male role models influencing the next generation, the next generation because that's gonna affect my daughters and their children?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:05]: So you've put out there 300 episodes. You've met a lot of people. And I'm sure that along the way, you've learned a lot, not only about yourself, but about what you were just talking about in regards to what men need right now. And some of that's subjective. I'm gonna be very honest about that because there's many people that have probably many different thoughts on what masculinity should be, ought to be, could be, etcetera. Talk to me about your biggest takeaways. Looking back at 300 episodes, looking back at 300 interviews, 300 conversations, and what's been the biggest takeaways for you that you think that all men need to know to be able to connect better either with themselves, with other men, and to be that better version of themselves that they want to be.

Brent Dowlen [00:21:58]: You know, I wanted to be a place that's why I called it the fallible man. I wanted to be upfront that I was on a journey. I didn't ever wanna come across as the guy who had all the answers because that's an immediate turn off. Right? That that that's all crap. No one no one has all the answers. No one has it perfect. I'm very quick to share my failings with my audience because that's an incredibly important part of the journey for any of us. And I've wrestled with and reformed on this question so many times, Chris.

Brent Dowlen [00:22:26]: Like, I am constantly at war with this question in my head, adjusting what I think is crucial, what I think is the ultimate, how do I get that down to really bite sized pieces for people. And I think where I'm at right now is this. All men were born for a purpose. You inherently have worth because you're you're a person. You're born, therefore, you have worth. But you are born for a purpose, and your mission is to find a way to that purpose. Because once men are very mission oriented and once you find what that purpose is for you, it clarifies your other choices. It gives you direction.

Brent Dowlen [00:23:06]: It gives you meaning. And once you start to live in alignment with that, everything else just seems easier. But we all have a unique purpose. Right? Because we all are unique individuals with our own back stories, our own experiences in lives, the personalities, the people who have influenced us, make us all very unique in the way we deal with things, and the way we process emotions and thoughts and feelings. And so you uniquely have something to offer the world that is a great value. And for men, finding that purpose and trying to pull everything else into alignment with them, well, that is probably one of the most critical things they can do because once you find that, everything else gets easier. You gain so much clarity on the direction you wanna go with things. It makes decisions easier because it either falls in line with that or it doesn't.

Brent Dowlen [00:23:53]: And men need a sense of direction and purpose to really flourish. I've had so many people, like, I go out of my way. You will not come to my podcast and find a bunch of guys thumping their chest and grunting and saying men's men men. Right? I'm a fairly, quote, unquote, stereotypically masculine guy. I ride a motorcycle. I shoot guns. I was in military briefly. I lift weights.

Brent Dowlen [00:24:17]: I have a beard. I usually have a mohawk. I mean, I'm none of that is masculinity. None of it. That is not it. And so I rail against that on my podcast. I am interested in men who actually want to be men. And that looks there are a lot of common attributes, but it has nothing to do with the physicality.

Brent Dowlen [00:24:34]: Yes. If you have a certain physicality, some people will take you more seriously. But I've had the privilege of knowing some elite elite soldiers over the years. I intermingled with a lot of special forces guys over the years. I had a navy seal who was cross training into another program in a different branch of military, and he was nothing to look at. Right? He wasn't a big guy. He wasn't all jacked. He didn't have this huge physical presence from his physicality, but he had a presence that was undeniable because of who he was and the confidence in which he carried himself.

Brent Dowlen [00:25:07]: And that came from he had a purpose and a mission and a direction and he lived in alignment with that. It's who he was. So I think for a lot of men, just finding that purpose, and then I may be one of the first guys you'll hear say it is learning humility. If you find your purpose and start living in alignment with that and can embrace humility, because it takes strength to be humble. Humility is not a weakness. Humility comes from a place of strength. But if you can have the humility to go, I have room to grow. I don't have all the answers.

Brent Dowlen [00:25:38]: Right. Then you can grow. Then you can live in alignment with that purpose and those beliefs and those ideals that you value. And you can live your best life because you have to get into that growth mindset of I'm here. I didn't hate who I was when I became a dad, but I looked at who I was and I went, what is the bar I wanna set for my children? I want them to see me make mistakes. I want them to see me own those mistakes. I want them to see me struggle and grow because I want them to know the journey is worthwhile. And so, yeah, finding your purpose as a man, I think is critical because it makes everything clearer.

Brent Dowlen [00:26:12]: And then embracing that humility because not because you're weak, but because you're strong enough to go, I can be better. I can do more.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:19]: And what are some of the first steps that you would recommend that someone take to find that purpose for themselves?

Brent Dowlen [00:26:26]: Hindsight is a huge blessing. I think it's actually a lot easier for guys who have a few more years than some younger guys. I think that's why it takes so long for some of us to find our purpose and direction because you need that hindsight. But you have to have enough hindsight. You have to have that 50,000 foot view sometimes. For a long time, I thought I was supposed to go into ministry, and I ran from it. Before I finally went into ministry, I ran from, I have my own Jonah story. But years later, looking back with that 50,000 foot view, it wasn't necessarily ministry I needed to be in.

Brent Dowlen [00:26:56]: That was just the way I understood to express that need, that purpose for me. I have a gift in helping other people grow and rise, mentoring other people. And I see that because I look back over I started working when I was 16 years old. 44 now. I've had a wide array of jobs because I could never stay anywhere because I was bored with them. But everywhere I've ever gone, I always end up being a trainer or a teacher in the group. My last big company I worked for, I was the lead trainer for our entire division. Part of my job wasn't what I got to do full time, but it was part of my job.

Brent Dowlen [00:27:27]: I wrote all of the documentation. I did all the onboarding. I trained all the new people. I went and set up new sites. The job I had before that, oh, I ended up training people. The job I had before that, totally different industry. I got all the new people with me because they trusted me to train them. And so as I started looking back, it's like, okay, no matter what I do, and I've also been a personal trainer, no matter what I do, it always comes back to working with people to grow in an area where they wanna grow.

Brent Dowlen [00:27:55]: And so, and I can look back over years years years of my life now at 44 and go, wow. That's what it's been every place I've been. It doesn't matter what I do. That's where I end up. And it's like, okay. So maybe my talents and gifts and purpose all align with teaching people or helping people grow. Right? Because as a personal trainer, I love to be in a personal trainer because I was so excited for every half step forward for any of my clients. I relished in them hitting goals and overcoming things that were trying to get past.

Brent Dowlen [00:28:25]: I specialized in working with people who are usually working around an injury or recovering from an injury, and I loved helping them gain that back. Right? Just to see them thrive. I trained so many people in the IT industry to watch them take better jobs, better positions after I trained them. And I was happy for all of them. I was never mad when they left because I had to train somebody else. I was thrilled that they got a better position for better pay. And so I think age gives you a lot of benefit when you have that. Now when you're younger in your twenties, you're still trying to figure out a lot of things.

Brent Dowlen [00:28:55]: You're still experiencing life. You don't have that experience to look back over with that 50,000 foot view. But I would encourage people to look at it and go, okay. This is what I like to do, but what is it I truly love about doing that? Not so much, yeah, I'd like to do this or I like to do that. Yeah. But really dig deep in that. My as my mentor, Dai, told me, what's the why beneath the why beneath the why? Six times. That was the minimal rule.

Brent Dowlen [00:29:24]: Six times. Why? Okay? Why? Right? Six times deep minimal with him. And in your twenties, that's what you really gotta do is, okay, I really love doing this. Like, I'm passionate about doing this, but why am I passionate about doing that? What aspect of this am I really truly passionate about? What really gets me out of bed? And then you can start to see once you get to that aspect, you can kinda zoom out a little bit and start to see what about that is it moving me? Okay. When I was younger, did that move me? Would I be interested in this because I would get to do that? It's not quite the experience take, but I it's probably the easiest direction to go in your younger years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:01]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Brent Dowlen [00:30:08]: Oh, I don't know, but we'll see.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:09]: In one word, what is fatherhood?

Brent Dowlen [00:30:11]: Blessing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:12]: When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded in being a father to a daughter?

Brent Dowlen [00:30:18]: I'll let you know when I get there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:19]: If I was to talk to your daughters, how would they describe you as a dad?

Brent Dowlen [00:30:23]: Present.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:23]: And 10 years from now, what do you want them to say?

Brent Dowlen [00:30:25]: That we never had any question that dad was always there for us, that we were a priority.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:30]: Now, who inspires you to be a better dad?

Brent Dowlen [00:30:33]: My father. Because my dad passed. It's almost been 3 years now. But to the day he died, I never once questioned. My father loved me, that I was a priority to him, that he always had my back.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:45]: Now you've given a lot of piece of advice today. A lot of things that you've learned along the way. Not only learned in your own journey, but learned from other men and other people. What's one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Brent Dowlen [00:30:56]: 20 years from now, your boss won't care about how many hours you worked. Your children will never ever ever forget that they were your priority.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:05]: Now if people want to find out more about you, more about the fallible man, where should they go?

Brent Dowlen [00:31:09]: The easiest place to go would be the falliblemanpodcast.com. You can get on our mailing list. You can check out the podcast via the YouTube video, your favorite audio player. I've got 7 links out to your favorite audio as well as being embedded, and see what we're doing and what we're about, and if it's something you're interested in.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:26]: And we'll put links in the notes today so that you can find that for yourself and check it out and and hear some of the 300 plus episodes that Brent has already put out there and that he'll keep putting out there to help other men be better men. Brent, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for what you're doing to be able to engage men in these conversations, but also to engage in the process of being able to work on themselves to become those men that they wanna be. Thank you for being here. Thanks for what you're doing, and I wish you all the best.

Brent Dowlen [00:31:57]: Thanks, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:58]: If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step road maps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together dot org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong and empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:57]: We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast, the time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and muscle men, get out and beat the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best that you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

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In a recent episode of Dads with Daughters, we delve into the multifaceted journey of fatherhood with guest Travis Hawkley, a father of three vibrant daughters aged 17, 13, and 9. The episode is a treasure trove of insights, real-life anecdotes, and practical advice for fathers striving to be the best dads they can be.

Embracing Each Child's Unique Needs

One of the central themes of the conversation is the importance of treating each child as an individual. Travis shares how his middle daughter faced anxiety around dance recitals. Despite her love for dancing, the pressure to perform became overwhelming. Instead of insisting she fit into a conventional dance class, Travis and his wife found a non-performing dance class that allowed their daughter to continue her passion without the stress of recitals. This decision underscores Travis's belief in accommodating each child's unique needs rather than imposing one-size-fits-all expectations.

Travis's approach to parenting is a thoughtful balance of supporting his daughters' independence while providing the guidance and resources they need to explore their interests. The key is to avoid making his daughters feel like they need to prioritize his feelings over their own, thereby fostering a sense of independence and self-driven choices.

The Power of Curiosity and Engagement

Travis advocates for a parenting style rooted in curiosity and engagement. He emphasizes the importance of initiating conversations and asking open-ended questions to understand each child's interests and aspirations. This approach not only strengthens the parent-child bond but also empowers children to express themselves freely.

Supporting their interests doesn't have to be costly. Travis suggests starting with low-cost activities to gauge their passion. For example, his oldest daughter's interest in stagecraft was nurtured with encouragement and opportunities to explore theater, even without a clear career path in mind. The support allowed her to pursue her passion without fear of failure.

Travis shares that his most successful moments as a father are when his daughters approach him with difficult questions, showcasing their trust and openness. This trust is built through consistent engagement and letting children guide conversations, ensuring they feel heard and valued.

Overcoming Limiting Beliefs

A significant part of Travis's parenting philosophy is fostering a positive growth mindset. He underscores the importance of helping children overcome limiting beliefs—self-imposed barriers that can hinder their potential. Drawing from his own experience, Travis recalls how being praised for his test-taking skills became a limiting belief, leading him to put less effort into his studies. It was only through conscious effort that he deconstructed this belief to succeed academically later in life.

Travis applies these lessons to his children, particularly regarding their future aspirations. His oldest daughter, for instance, feels uncertain about her post-high school plans amidst societal pressure to have a clear career path. Travis reassures her by sharing his varied career experiences and emphasizes the importance of flexibility and openness to change. He encourages her to consider non-traditional career paths, like becoming an electrician while indulging her theater interests, highlighting the value of adaptability in today's world.

Inspiration and Influence

Travis draws inspiration from his daughters and their interactions, finding joy and motivation in their growth. His parenting style is also influenced by his parents—his mother encouraged exploration and trying new things, while his father, despite different interests, provided a model of support and care.

This blend of influences has shaped Travis's motto: "Love wastefully." He emphasizes that love is an inexhaustible resource and advocates for loving fully and unconditionally. This philosophy extends to self-love and maintaining a balance between work and personal fulfillment.

Conclusion

In his conversation with Dr. Christopher Lewis, Travis Hawkley showcases a profound and nuanced approach to fatherhood. By treating each child as an individual, fostering curiosity, and helping them overcome limiting beliefs, Travis exemplifies the values of love and support that are crucial in raising strong, independent daughters. His journey reminds us that being present, engaged, and adaptable are key components of fatherhood. As Travis encourages, let's all strive to "love wastefully" and support our children's journeys without reservation.

TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript created through CASTMAGIC)

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to the dads with daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to walk on this journey with you because, you know, it is a journey. All of us are on a journey together in trying to raise our daughters. Whether you have a brand new newborn at home or you have college age kids, you're always going to be a father And you're always going to have to do what you can to continue to learn to grow and to be present, to be active and to be able to be there to help your kids to continue to become the people that they're becoming. And we can't do that alone. There are so many other dads that are out there that have walked this path prior to us, are walking side by side with us, and men don't always do a great job of talking to one another. That may not be a surprise to you, but it's true.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:15]: And it's important for us to understand that we have resources in our own community and beyond that can help us to be even better dads. So that's why this podcast exists. This podcast exists to help you to be that active dad that you wanna be, but also to give you some tools for your toolbox and to open up your mind to different ways of doing things because there's no one right way to father. You can do it in so many different ways, but you can learn from other dads too. That's why every week I bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that can help you along that journey. And today we got another great dad with us. Travis Hockley is with us today. And Travis is a father of 3 girls.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:58]: He has 3 girls that are 17, 13, and 9. So he's right in the thick of it and working to help his daughters to prepare them to be grown and flown. He's got one that's gonna graduate this year. So it is a definite process. And I'm really looking forward to talking with him today about his own journey and to share that journey with you as well. Travis, thanks so much for being here today.

Travis Hawkley [00:02:24]: Thank you, Christopher. I appreciate it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:25]: It is my pleasure. I thank you for being here. And we always start our interviews with an opportunity to kind of turn the clock back in time. I love being able to do that. I said you have 3 girls and your oldest is 17. So I'm gonna go back. Maybe it's 18 years. Maybe it's 17 and a half years, you know, but I wanna know what was your first reaction? What was that first reaction that you had when you found out that you were going to be a father to a daughter?

Travis Hawkley [00:02:52]: You know, I I've listened to a few episodes of the podcast and have talked to a lot of other dads. And I've noticed that a lot of dads were pretty fearful, terrified, apprehensive about having a daughter. And, honestly, I didn't feel that. I think I probably would have felt more terrified had it been having a boy. And that comes from any number of things. But growing up, I didn't I guess I didn't ever, like, identify a whole lot with a lot of the, like, quote, unquote, stereotypical guy things. Wasn't a huge fan of sport. Didn't really like a lot of that stuff.

Travis Hawkley [00:03:25]: I liked art. I liked music. I liked the things that are unfortunately labeled as stereotypically female. And so when we were starting to have kids and I found out I was having a girl, that to me just it felt right. It felt normal. It felt natural. I was like, alright. I I can do this.

Travis Hawkley [00:03:43]: And as you mentioned, I have 3. And every time, you know, went through that process and found out I was having another girl, I was just excited. And then after we had our 3rd, someone said, well, are you gonna try for a 4th and see if you can get that boy? And I thought to myself and I'm like, okay. Well, statistically speaking, if we have another one, it's probably gonna be a girl too because that's just the way that that works in in a lot of cases. But I was like, you know, I know girls. I'm a good girl dad. I I know what I'm doing at this point in time. You know, if I were to have a boy, that would really kinda throw things off a little bit.

Travis Hawkley [00:04:16]: You know, if if we were to have another one, which we didn't. But having a girl would probably be another great thing. So I didn't really feel that apprehension. I I loved it, and I've loved every minute of being a a girl dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:26]: It's definitely a journey and definitely something you have to learn about. I relate to what you said in regards to growing up. I was much more on the music, the choir, the theater, the the things that were not the let's watch basketball, baseball, football, you know, being on the sports teams and things like that. And not to say that there's anything wrong with that, but Nope. That I think that I would have probably felt similar if I had had a son and being able to understand, okay, what do I have to do to be able to understand where they are going to be coming from? Because their journey may be different than mine. But at the same time, I guess I have to think about that as a father to a daughter too, because their journey is definitely different than mine. And I have to realize that and be open to that as well. Now you said that you didn't really feel fear when your children were born.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:20]: As your kids have gotten older, as they've gone through the different phases and stages, and you have one that's getting ready to be in her last year of high school, and then you've got younger ones as well. What would you say has been your biggest fear throughout their lives that you've had to deal with?

Travis Hawkley [00:05:35]: I think one of the biggest things that I have been fearful of really has less to do with them and more to do with me as a father of I didn't want to put expectations on my kids in such a way that would cause them to maybe count my feelings as more important than their own. I didn't want them to ever think, oh, if I don't do this, I'm gonna disappoint my dad. That was never something that I wanted them to feel. And I feel like my parents did a really good job of that as well. So that was you know, it wasn't something that that was I was trying to go against how I was raised. I feel like my parents did a great job, but I just I didn't want them to go through life thinking that what I thought was more important than what they wanted to do. So I think that's probably has been and still is my biggest fear.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:28]: Now you have 3 daughters, all at very different ages, completely different parts of their life in how they relate to you, probably how they relate to each other. And once you bring more than one child in the mix, you have to deal with a lot of the connections and you have to be able to do what you can as a father to be able to build those unique relationships with each of your kids because each of your children are always going to be very different than one another. That being said, as you think about the journey that you've been on with your daughters, what have you had to do to be able to build those unique relationships with each of your daughters to be able to allow you to understand them better, but also allow for them to be able to connect better with you?

Travis Hawkley [00:07:15]: Yeah. That's a fantastic question. And we definitely spread them out. I mean, they're all 4 years apart in school. So my oldest is currently in her will will be entering her senior year of high school, which means that my middle child is 13. She'll be entering her 8th grade year, and then my youngest will be entering her 4th grade year. So they are never in the same school at the same time, except for, like, 1 year in elementary school. So it really has been very different to get to know them and parent them because they aren't.

Travis Hawkley [00:07:46]: They're not in a similar life position at all, which has been really interesting and fascinating. For each one of them, I mean, it has been really nice. It was really nice with my oldest, for example, because she was 4 by the time her sister was born. So I had a lot of time. And at that point in time, I was teaching and going to school. So I had a lot of extra time that I could spend with her. So she and I kind of, I mean, grew up together. We learned a lot from each other.

Travis Hawkley [00:08:13]: We'd go to the library at any time that we wanted to. You know, all the things that we wanted to do, we just kinda did, which was nice. And she, personality wise, is a lot like her mom. And so she and I got along really well. When my second child came along, she was very much personality wise like me, and we did not mesh at all. And so it was really, really difficult to between the ages of maybe 25, we just butted heads constantly. And it was really, really rough. I really feared so I guess here's one thing I did fear.

Travis Hawkley [00:08:46]: I really feared that she and I would never really be able to connect. And I knew deep down that that likely wasn't going to be the case, that we just kinda had to figure each other out. And I think where we finally did learn how to connect was once I kinda took away those expectations at the beginning. And I did have certain expectations on my kids even though I attempted not to. I expected her to act a certain way, and she wasn't gonna act that way. And that had nothing to do with parenting, had everything to do with just her innate personality. And once I figured out how to let that go and accept her personality and and accept her feelings and accept who she was, we were able to connect. And now she's probably the most like me, and she and I could connect perfectly well.

Travis Hawkley [00:09:34]: So, yeah, there definitely have been challenges with each one to kinda get to know them. And I think for me, it's been finding their thing. So my oldest was, for example I mean, we're all readers just because I'm a reader, so reading's just always been a thing. But my oldest was really, like, a reader. She would just pour through books, and she and I connect in that way. My middle child, not as much of a reader, but she really likes movement and dance and things like that. So she and I have been able to connect through that. My youngest, she more likes movies and other things.

Travis Hawkley [00:10:10]: So it's been a lot of spending time together to discover what each one of them likes and trying to make sure that I connect with them on that, but also just kind of being curious. I think for me, the the biggest thing as a dad is being curious about what it is that they are interested in at the moment and giving that my attention and helping them to figure out what they're interested in. And by doing that, I've been able to keep them interested, keep them coming to me. They feel like they can come to me with anything. They're not gonna get pushed away. My oldest was in 8th grade, so this is three and a half years ago now, probably. My oldest was trying to kinda figure out what she was gonna do in high school, you know, her courses for high school. She didn't know exactly what she wanted to do.

Travis Hawkley [00:10:54]: And she came to me, and she's like, what if I did theater? And I was like, I I think that's fascinating. I think you'd be really good at that. And she's like, well, I don't wanna act. She's like, what if I did stagecraft? And I could tell that she was maybe a little bit apprehensive to go to her mom about it because her mom wanted her to do certain things. And when she came to me, and she brought it up and was really excited about it, I was like, well, let's let's look into it. Let's kinda figure it out. We love going to musicals, so being around with really amazing sets and that lifestyle, whatever, was something that we were into, and she has run with it. So now she runs the soundboard for all the musicals and the plays, and she's a stage manager.

Travis Hawkley [00:11:32]: So she does all this really cool stuff, and she's starting to do a community. So something that she was just really kind of interested in, didn't really know, she and I were able to connect on and kind of turn that into something that might continue, might end up being a potential career path for her as well. So

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:48]: Love that because there are so many different career paths that you can take, and sometimes you go down one pathway that can spark an interest, spark a light, and can open up a door for something completely different than you thought. And so I commend you for encouraging her in that way. And, you know, one of the things that I think that that really makes me think about is the fact that I think that many women today, and I've seen this in my own daughters, whether it be society or people around them, there have been things that make them feel that they're limited, that they have these limiting beliefs that hold them back from achieving their full potential. I said, I've seen this in my own daughters and we've had to have many conversations and and really trying to unpack that for ourselves. And I know in talking to you, you said you've had some similar things that you've been doing with your own daughters to be able to help them and to really make them think in different ways. I guess I'd be interested to better understand where did you start seeing that in your own daughters? And what did you have to start putting in place to try to unpack that for your daughters so that they were willing to not only hear you, but then be willing to act on what you were trying to instill in them?

Travis Hawkley [00:13:03]: So I think in order to kind of unpack that, I've got to go back to my own childhood and look at all of the one of the things that has been pretty constant in my life, and I think in most of our lives, has changed. So when I was 12 years old, my family moved from Fort Worth, Texas to Boise, Idaho, and that was a huge change. And then when I was 18, I went and lived in Russia for a semester to teach English to little kids at a kindergarten in Russia as a kind of a volunteer experience. And I lived for a couple years in Spain, and then I went to school, and I moved around a lot. I became a teacher. I taught at the college level, ESL and Spanish at a college level mostly. And so I have gone through a lot of changes where I've had to confront a lot of my own limiting beliefs and kind of deconstruct those. Living outside of the country is a fantastic way to butt up against those things that you have that are gonna limit you.

Travis Hawkley [00:13:54]: I remember multiple occasions when I lived in Russia. I was 18 years old. I didn't know anything, you know, about life in the real world. And there I was in all these situations where the things that I had grown up with, the beliefs that I had grown up with were being pushed back against by people who believed in a completely different way. And, you know, I found that I could go one of 2 ways. I could either fight back against them and try to hold on to the things that I thought were right, or I could examine those beliefs and figure out where they could change and how I could become different, how I could help make those beliefs work for me. And so I started regularly through all these insane life changes, examine these beliefs, and try and figure out where they come from, and why were they there, and how were they causing me to act in a certain way. And so I I started in my head, just as as you were talking about, and I started calling them limiting beliefs.

Travis Hawkley [00:14:49]: And as I was teaching so I had one particular job where I worked at a career college in Tucson, Arizona. And my job was specifically to help people who were getting back into school. So most of them had been out of college for a while. They were coming back to school at 25, 30. I think the oldest student that I had was 63 who were coming back to a career college to try and do something different. Now a lot of these students had been not great students when they were in school before. They'd either had not finished high school, they never finished their diploma or GED, or had gotten their GED by the skin in their teeth, had been told by their teachers that they weren't good students, that they were never going to amount to anything. And they were coming back to school because they needed a way out.

Travis Hawkley [00:15:31]: They needed to change their lives. And they saw education as being that way, that thing that was going to help them. And so the class that I taught focused on 3 different things. Academic study skills, number 1, super important. They wanted to make sure that they could actually do school. Also, career exploration skills. So we, you know, did resume writing and interview questions and that type of thing, which was really fun. But then the 3rd piece was mindset.

Travis Hawkley [00:15:55]: It was looking at helping them figure out how to have a positive growth mindset moving forward. And that was where I really, really, really so at at that point in time, my oldest was 2, maybe 3 years old when I got that job. And so it was a really great time for me to have that job, that experience because it really helped me to flush out to see these people going through this experience of deconstructing actively, harshly these ideas that they had grown up with and had had since they were really young. And so it it taught me to be very cognizant of what I was putting on my kids. I didn't want them to have any beliefs that were going to stop them, that were going to limit them. I wanted them to grow up free of those things. And, you know, that's hard, and I'm idealistic for me to say, oh, I didn't want them to have any sort of beliefs that we're going to limit them. But I think depending on how you view any belief could be a bit a limiting belief.

Travis Hawkley [00:17:00]: But I think what it really boils down to is helping them to be able to overcome, any belief that they find that might be getting in the way. One of the things and I and I always liked to share this one when it came to my teaching experience as well. When I was in 1st grade, I had a very little white haired grandmotherly type first grade teacher. Her name was missus Cox. She was fantastic. Both my my older brother and older sister had had her as well. So I was the 3rd of me and my siblings to have her. And she told me when I was in 1st grade that I was really, really good at taking tests and that I was gonna be really successful in school because I was really good at taking tests.

Travis Hawkley [00:17:36]: Now that sounds like it's a wonderful thing, except that as I got older, and mostly into high school and college was where I really saw this, I felt like I was really good at taking tests and didn't need to study all that much because I was good at taking tests. And so it was really difficult. I mean, I did really well on tests, period. I mean, I I was great at taking tests, but I didn't put in the work to really make a lot of that knowledge last. So even something that seems like it's a positive can potentially limit you in certain ways. And once I figured that out, when I was in college, I was probably in my junior year of college. By the time I kinda figured that out, then I had to go through process of deconstructing that and figuring out how to go about doing the rest of my education without having that be a problem. So when it comes to my girls, I try to make sure that they know that any belief that they have, we can go about modifying it or changing it.

Travis Hawkley [00:18:31]: Or we can figure out how to work within that belief if it's causing problems to what they wanna do. I'll give an example. My my 13 year old is a dancer. And probably maybe 4 years ago, she came to me, and she was having a hard time a lot with, like, recovery when it came to how she was able to do her dance practices and her workouts and things like that. She wanted to get better. And at that point in time, I had done a lot of diet and lifestyle changes. I've had kind of figured out some things, and I made some suggestions to her. And I said, you certainly don't have to do this, but you wanted to kind of adopt this lifestyle that I have.

Travis Hawkley [00:19:10]: I feel like you might benefit from this. And she was like, well, I'll certainly give it a try even though it was different from the way the rest of the family ate, except for myself, of course, and was way different from the way most of her friends led their lives. And she was able to adopt that lifestyle and was able to make a lot of really interesting changes when it came to her her dance. She was able to recover lots faster. She was able to, you know, just get better by leaps and bounds. Where before, she was, you know, very incrementally getting better. Now she was exponentially getting better. And she's an amazing dancer now where had she had she not made those changes, you know, who knows? So it's interesting to look at, and not that she was eating bad before, but just for the lifestyle that she wanted, adopting a different belief system led her to be able to do that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:13]: So that was your oldest that you were just talking about. And right?

Travis Hawkley [00:20:18]: Middle child.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:18]: Okay. So talk to me about what so that was your middle child that you were talking about. So what has been the the, what's been the reaction as you've had these conversations with your youngest and your oldest?

Travis Hawkley [00:20:37]: So about that specifically or about, you know, just in in general about things that they like to do?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:44]: About the limiting beliefs and and things that limit them and hold them back.

Travis Hawkley [00:20:48]: Yeah. So my oldest, I think the thing that has been the most prevalent recently is, as you mentioned, she will be graduating from high school next year. And her biggest thing on her mind is what she's gonna do after. And she has had this problem for years, probably since she was in the 7th grade, where she felt like her friends all knew what they were gonna do. They all already had their life plan out. I'm gonna be a doctor. I'm gonna be a whatever. I'm gonna do this.

Travis Hawkley [00:21:13]: And she had no idea. She did not know what she wanted to do, and that was really frustrating to her because she didn't have one thing that she found to be really, really interesting. And I told her that. I'm like, that's not a problem at all. But she saw it as one because society was telling her that she should know what she wanted to do when she grew up. We asked that question to kids all the time. What do you wanna be when you grow up? And she felt like she should know, and she did. And that was really, really hard.

Travis Hawkley [00:21:39]: And I made sure to point out to her how many different things I had gone through. Yes. I was a teacher, but I taught so many different things. And I taught at a university. I taught at a community college. I taught at the career college. I wasn't when we when I moved back to Boise about 10 years ago, I wasn't able to find a job in education. I got a job as a sales guy at an IT company.

Travis Hawkley [00:21:59]: I didn't know anything about sales. I didn't know anything about IT. And I got that job, and I was able to make it work. And I was interested, and I was curious. And so I have I walked her through all those different things that I've gone through in my life and said, you might choose one thing that you're gonna do in your college career, and that's gonna change anyway. Most people nowadays, at least, do not start out with one thing and stay doing that one thing for the rest of their life. And if they do, that's awesome. That's because they've been able to stick with it, be interested in it.

Travis Hawkley [00:22:28]: That's something that is great for them. I'm like, but not everybody's like that. You get to figure out what you're like, and you get to figure out how you wanna proceed. And that's something that has been kind of interesting because her mom is very much set on her going the route of the traditional 4 year bachelor's degree education going through and and doing that process and getting a job that way. And my daughter doesn't want to. She has talked about becoming an electrician. And using that, coupled with the theater experience that she was talking about before, setting up sound systems, microphone systems she wants to continue to work at. She's currently volunteering at a small playhouse here, being a stage manager, doing sets, doing sound, and she's been able to find something that she feels she's going to be able to do for a while.

Travis Hawkley [00:23:17]: And we've had conversations about what happens when that changes. What happens when she becomes interested in something else and doesn't wanna keep doing that? And I think in a lot of cases, most people get into that sort of situation and they feel stuck. How am I gonna change? How am I gonna do this? That sunk cost fallacy of being like, I've already put in this much time and effort. I can't switch. I can't do something different. And so that's kind of been a conversation a lot recently with my oldest. My youngest, you know, really hasn't hit a lot of those yet being only 9. But I think the one most recently, she followed in her just oldest sister, my middle child's footsteps, and went into dance.

Travis Hawkley [00:23:54]: And she found herself getting kind of anxious about performing in dance recitals. And she didn't really know what it was when she was, like, 5 or 6 years old. She just kind of didn't think that she really liked being up in front of people, but she didn't really know what was going on. And just this last year, she came to us, and she said she's like, I wanna keep dancing. She's like, I just don't wanna keep performing. Can I do that? Is that okay? And, of course, that's okay. We just had to get her into the right dance class. We found dance classes that worked where she was able to do the dance classes and learn routines and learn skills, but she didn't have to perform in front of people.

Travis Hawkley [00:24:36]: That's just not something that she is interested in doing where my 13 year old loves it, thrives on that. And so for my kids, it's that each one of them is so different. Lumping them all into one expectation and saying, well, because we want this for you or we want this for the other, you all have to do the same thing. That's ridiculous. I've been able to help each one of them in unique ways to kind of find their own way forward.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:02]: Now as you think about other dads that are out there that are listening to this and want to start having these conversations with their own conversations with their own daughters. Is there advice that you might have for them in regards to how to start?

Travis Hawkley [00:25:14]: I think being curious about your kids is one of the main ways. And especially if you notice your kids struggling in a certain way or trying to live up to some standard that they're not sure where it came from, be curious. Be engaged. Just start the conversation. You know? Hey. What are you interested in now? What is something that I don't know about you? What is something that you're interested in that, that I might be interested in? Teach me about something. Tell me about what's important to you. And I know that's hard.

Travis Hawkley [00:25:49]: I mean, I I feel like I've done a good job from the beginning of keeping engaged with my girls. I've never really had to fight to keep their attention or to get their attention. But really that is born from I've always done this. I've always been interested. I've always been engaged. I'm a lifelong learner. I was a teacher, so I'm interested in everything. And so it was easy for me to kind of step in and say, well, what do you want to do? Let's explore that.

Travis Hawkley [00:26:13]: And every time that my kids, within reason, every time that my kids wanted to try something, I was all for it. I was like, alright. Let's go. Let's do this. And I made sure that they knew if it was something that there was gonna be a lot of cost, I was like, let's find a low cost way to do this just in case it does stick. And at the moment that it sticks, we'll go all in. We can buy all the things. We can do all the whatever.

Travis Hawkley [00:26:33]: But I wanna make sure that it's something that you're really interested in. Then when it is, great. Let's go. And so I think, again, just kind of boiling that down. Be engaged. Be curious. You've gotta spend time with your kids. You've gotta give them that time, and you've gotta let them take over and kinda steer those conversations.

Travis Hawkley [00:26:53]: Having those expectations of, oh, my kids should be this way. My kids need to do this. That's gonna lead to your kids. In some cases, they're they're gonna thrive on that. They're gonna be okay. And in others, that's not gonna be who they are, and they're gonna have a hard time. But getting to know your kids, asking them open ended questions, and just, again, being curious, being engaged, I think is is probably the best advice I could give.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:15]: We always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Travis Hawkley [00:27:22]: I'm ready.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:22]: In one word, what is fatherhood?

Travis Hawkley [00:27:24]: Love.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:25]: When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Travis Hawkley [00:27:28]: I think it comes mostly from every time they come to me with a question that I know was difficult for them to approach with me. Knowing that they feel my love and openness to where they could come to me, I think that's when I feel the most successful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:47]: Now if I was to talk to your daughters, how would they describe you as a dad?

Travis Hawkley [00:27:50]: I'm I'm sure all sorts of colorful words would come around. I'm I'm definitely not a normal person in a lot of ways. They would probably describe me as being funny and weird and being really energetic, and they would probably use the word engaged too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:06]: Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Travis Hawkley [00:28:08]: I mean, my girls definitely inspire me to be a better dad. I mean, on a daily basis, when I'm playing with them, when I'm talking to them, I just I want to be the best type of dad that I can. My own dad was a huge influence on me. He was great. We didn't necessarily have the same interests. He was very much the sports is sports guy, loves to watch sports, and yet he still found ways to connect with me, which was fantastic. And so he definitely helped my mom. Another great example, not a dad, but she was an example of a great parent.

Travis Hawkley [00:28:41]: She was interested. She loved to help me, you know, explore new things. She taught me how to cook when I was really young. She a lot of things that I find interesting kinda came from her.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:52]: Now you've given a lot of piece of advice today, a lot of things that you've learned along the way with your 3 daughters. As you think about dads that are listening, what's one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Travis Hawkley [00:29:04]: For sure. I have a motto, and it's actually painted on my wall in my house in letters that are probably a foot and a half tall. And it's probably about, you know, 8 feet long. And it says love wastefully. And it comes from a guy named John Shelby Spong, and he talks about just loving in such a way that we just give everything, that we just love with everything that we have. And that has been you know, I only discovered that maybe, like, a year and a half ago, that freezing. But I noticed as I kinda look back on my life, I I really have tried to adopt that in a lot of ways, whether it comes to dealing with my kids, dealing with other people, dealing with myself. As a dad, I think it is really hard for me to love myself in a lot of ways because of the stresses of being a dad.

Travis Hawkley [00:29:55]: It's hard to be a dad. You're worried not only about providing for your family. You're worried about, am I connecting with my kids? Am I being a good dad? Am I being a good husband? Am I being everything that I need to be a good provider? There's so much stress around being a dad. Loving yourself can be really, really tough. But giving yourself that love and that curiosity towards yourself too, finding the things that you want to do that you find to be interesting. For a really long time, I was just focused on providing a paycheck for my family, and that was solid. Every dad wants to be able to do that. It was harming my mental health in a lot of ways.

Travis Hawkley [00:30:33]: And so I recently, within the last year, have started my own business as a life transition coach, helping people to do that, which is directly born from my experience as an educator, as a teacher. I'd already been doing that. And so taking that upon myself and realizing this was going to be not as lucrative right at the beginning, but was going to be more fulfilling has helped me to be a better provider still, has helped me to be a better dad, has helped me to be just a better person. So, anyway, tying that all back into the idea of love wastefully. It's not something that's in limited supply. We can love our kids with as much as we have. There's nothing you're not gonna run out. You're not gonna run out of love.

Travis Hawkley [00:31:15]: Give it all and love them and and love everyone around you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:18]: Great way to end the show today, and I really appreciate you being here. If people wanna find out more about you, where is the best place for them to go?

Travis Hawkley [00:31:24]: So I am the only, to my knowledge, Travis Hockley in the world. So you can find me pretty easily. Google my name, and I should show up on Facebook and Instagram. I will have a website here in the not so distant future, but I don't have it yet. But those are probably the 2 best places to find me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:41]: Well, Travis, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your own journey, and I wish you all the best.

Travis Hawkley [00:31:46]: Awesome. Thank you, Christopher. I appreciate it. This has been great.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:49]: If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step road maps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together dot org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week all geared to helping you raise strong and powered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:47]: We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, We buy them presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and be the world to them.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

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Parenthood is often described as a roller coaster ride, filled with ups, downs, and unexpected turns. For many fathers, this journey involves a continual process of learning, growth, and adaptation. In this week's Dads with Daughters podcast, we spoke with Thomas Batchelor, an operations and maintenance electrician for Shell Energy Australia and the father of two sons. The conversation touched on various aspects of fatherhood, from the initial challenges to the changing gender roles and the importance of self-care and support.

The Long Marathon: Early Challenges in Fatherhood

When Thomas Batchelor first discovered he was going to be a father, he approached the situation with confidence. However, reality quickly set in. "I thought I'd have it all under control," Batchelor reflected. "But it was far from the truth." Like many new parents, Thomas faced significant hurdles, including a newborn who had difficulty sleeping. The initial months were a humbling experience that forced him to adjust his expectations and learn on the go.

"I learned pretty quickly that it's not a sprint. It's going to be a marathon-type process," Batchelor said. "Settle in because the life that you knew before has changed, and you have to adjust to the new life that you've got now."

This early period was characterized by significant personal growth, teaching Batchelor to look inward and adopt a more grounded approach in both his personal life and in fatherhood.

Shifting Gender Roles and the Importance of Teamwork

Batchelor highlighted how traditional gender roles have shifted in contemporary parenting. He took a year off work to stay at home and support his wife's career aspirations, showcasing the importance of teamwork in managing family responsibilities. Initially, he struggled to comprehend the "mental load" that his wife carried daily. This refers to the myriad of small, yet significant, tasks that ensure a household runs smoothly.

"About 2 or 3 months in, I thought I was doing a great job, but my wife said I needed to start thinking for myself now," Batchelor explained. It was a steep learning curve that took almost a year to fully grasp.

Understanding and acknowledging these unseen aspects of parental responsibility not only strengthened his relationship with his wife but also allowed him to contribute more effectively at home.

Building a Support Network

One of Batchelor's key points was the importance of seeking and having a support network. Fatherhood can be a lonely journey, often described as the "lone wolf syndrome." He strongly believes that vulnerability and asking for help are crucial for personal well-being. Batchelor participated in a retreat called the Good Blokes Society, which acted as an "adult rite of passage" and enabled him to share his struggles with like-minded men.

"Without that, that was the start of my journey. And then I sat with it, and it was really raw and tough for me to do, but I left there and continued to gain momentum."

His experience illustrates that community and mutual support are essential in navigating the complexities of fatherhood.

Self-Care and Sustainable Fatherhood

Adopting an effective self-care routine emerged as another critical piece of Batchelor's journey. From regular exercise and a balanced diet to seeking professional psychological help, Batchelor emphasizes that self-care enables him to be a better father.

"I've got to make sure that I'm getting to bed at a decent time, eating a pretty good diet, exercising regularly, and speaking to a psychologist," he said. "If I do that, then I feel like I'm in the place where I need to be."

By managing his well-being, Batchelor ensures that he can fully engage with and support his family.

Thomas Batchelor's story is a resonant example of modern fatherhood's challenges and triumphs. His journey offers essential insights into the importance of adaptability, shifting gender roles, and self-care. Batchelor underscores that vulnerability and a strong support network are indispensable elements for any father striving to be the best they can be. As society continues to evolve, his experiences will undoubtedly inspire other dads to navigate their unique journeys with resilience and empathy.

For more on Thomas Batchelor's journey and other inspiring stories, tune into the Dads with Daughters podcast. Fathers seeking support can also explore resources offered by Fathering Together.

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Every week. I love being able to talk to you, to walk with you, to be here in solidarity, together, talking about fatherhood, working through the journey that we're both on in raising our kids. And I say it's a journey because it truly is a journey. It is a journey that each of us goes on every day and we are going to be learning something every day, learning something about ourselves, learning something about the, the person that we are, the person that we're becoming, but also learning about our kids, what they're becoming. And we then have to pivot. We have to adjust. We have to learn to be able to be the best dads that we wanna be.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:06]: And that's important. And that's why this podcast exists. This podcast exists to be able to be that resource for you, to help you along that journey. And I'll be honest, as I've gone through this with you, I've learned so much from all of you, but I've also learned so much from all the guests that we've had on the show. And that's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests, different dads that have had different experiences, that can share those experiences with you so that you can learn, you can grow, and you can be able to take things from their own experience, put it into your own toolbox, and help you along the way. This week, we've got another great guest with us. Thomas Batchelor is with us. And Thomas is a operations and maintenance electrician for Shell Energy Australia, but he's also, more importantly, a father of 2.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:55]: We're going to be talking about his own journey in being a father to his sons, but also some of the things that he went through in this journey to be able to be present, be engaged, and be there for his sons as they were growing and also some of the things that he learned along the way. So I'm really excited to have him here and for him to share his journey with you. Thomas, thanks so much for being here today.

Thomas Batchelor [00:02:20]: Thanks, Chris. Thanks for having me.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:21]: It is my pleasure. I love being able to talk to different dads with different experiences. And first 1st and foremost, one of the things that I love being able to do in our conversations is turn the clock back in time and you've got 2 sons. So I want to go all the way back. Go back to that first moment when you found out that you were going to be a father to a son. What was going through your head?

Thomas Batchelor [00:02:40]: I thought I'd have it all under control. I thought, yeah, I've got my head around this and my kid will fit into my life, but it was far from the truth. And I learned pretty quickly that it's not a sprint. It's going to be a marathon type process and settle in because the life that you knew before has changed and you have to adjust to the new life that you've got now. And I think I did struggle with that.

Christopher Lewis [00:03:04]: So talk to me a little bit about that because as you said, it's not a sprint, it's a marathon and you have to kind of learn along the way. And you've got 2 sons now, so there's definite learning that goes on there from child 1 to child 2. So So what were some of the first things that you really had to learn for yourself that really helped you to start that journey, but also to be able to transcend those first moments of being, let's say, a little bit trepidatious, a little bit concerned, and be able to get into the groove of fatherhood for yourself.

Thomas Batchelor [00:03:37]: Yeah. I think going into it, I probably thought I had a sense of arrogance that I was I was across it all, and I wasn't gonna be any different to any of the other parents who were, you know, I'm gonna do it on my terms. And that didn't happen. We had a child who didn't wanna sleep. He was a challenging baby. Didn't wanna sleep. It was a real challenge, and it's been very humbling. And I'd say that the man I've become today and continue to keep growing is because of the challenges of having, I think, a difficult child. I think it's really helped me to just become more grounded and look more inwardly. And I've had such growth because of the challenges. I'm happy for that.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:14]: You know, all of us go through challenges in different ways. Some of it goes into the type of child that you have and the the things that they push you into, but then there are challenges at times when internally you have to fight your own demons of the way that you were raised into figuring out the way that you wanna raise your own children. So each of us fights those pressures and that connection and that dichotomy that happens when you become a parent. So talk to me about that challenge for yourself and what you had to do to to be able to transcend and move beyond the initial challenge. And let's say it is the nonsleeping. I remember that. I had a child just like that. You, especially after, you know, 6 months, a year of that happening, you're walking around like a zombie and you you don't know which end is up and it impacts your relationships.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:03]: It impacts everything. So talk to me about going through that, but also transcending that to be able to push through it, but to be able to also learn from it to help you to be the dad that you wanted to be now.

Thomas Batchelor [00:05:16]: So I sort of just got my head down really. I thought to myself, if I can try and do as much as I can so I would try and do as much as I could to try and support my wife with the wake ups so she could have a better day. I had Oscar at home as my oldest boy. And I just continued to keep putting my head down. But then I was also trying to mesh in this social life as well. So I thought I could still go out with my mates. I thought I could still go and do all these things that I wanted to do, but still be able to be this supportive husband and the father that I wanted to be and I couldn't do it all. And that became quite an overwhelming thing and I had to really I'm a people pleaser and I had to really make sure that I now I probably only just got to the grips in the last couple of years that, you know, you have to say no to things and you have to make sacrifices because you have to get your priorities straight.

Thomas Batchelor [00:06:06]: And I did bottom out, I'd say about 3 years ago. So I just ran out of steam really and the kids would have never have known. I was just doing what I had to do to get through but I wasn't enjoying the process. I wasn't present. I was making sure that I was doing the things I had to do as a father, but I wasn't enjoying it. It just wasn't an enjoyable experience. And I bottomed out, and I started becoming involved in groups of of particularly men who I would who I went away with. It was almost like an adult rite of passage.

Thomas Batchelor [00:06:36]: I would go away and I'll speak about some of the challenges, obviously, throughout the course of my life and then obviously how it's impacting me as a father now and just really unpacking that. Just having more people to talk to, you know, more people to speak to who are also going through different struggles and just getting it out there. And that really helped me to put things into perspective and and know that I'm not alone. I don't know if you've heard the term the lone wolf syndrome. So that was something I idea. I just got my head down and I would go to the beach at 5 AM in the morning in winter and and run on the beach. I really hammered exercise to a point where it was unhealthy. And just to try and feel something, to try and, you know, get up before the kids got up.

Thomas Batchelor [00:07:16]: I just burnt out. I just couldn't do anymore. And I feel like there's just been different phases of my life where I've had to lean into certain things by slowing things down and then speeding things up at time to try and get to where I need to be. And I feel like I'm really there now. I'm in a really good spot now. I'm actually starting to enjoy my time with my boys. And I'm really grateful for that because, I mean, I don't know how long I could have gone on for. I mean, I didn't wanna get to when the kids were 10, 11, 12 and go far out the whole time.

Thomas Batchelor [00:07:44]: I've just been a servant, you know, and I haven't enjoyed the process. This is more it's about being a parent. So I'm grateful for where I am now. And it's it's a lot of hard work, but grateful for where I am now. So

Christopher Lewis [00:07:55]: let's rewind a little bit because this process that you went through and this journey that you were on, it sounds like a roller coaster in regards to the highs and the lows and what you were pushing yourself to try to accomplish, but you weren't accomplishing. So you've gotten to a point now where you feel like you're in a good spot, but you had to have gone through some healing in some aspect. You had to have gone through some aspect to challenge yourself, to push you in a different direction. What did you have to do to be able to get off of that roller coaster? What did you have to do to be able to get on this new path that you were on? Because there are going to be dads that are listening right now that are on that roller coaster. They hear they heard what you just said and said, I feel that way right now, but I don't know how to get off. I don't know how to start on this different journey.

Thomas Batchelor [00:08:47]: I think just submitting to where you're at and then asking for help. I think asking for help is the biggest thing. So getting the right people around you who can support you. And if that's not your close circle of friends because you're not there yet, I wasn't there yet. So you think about the people that you went to school with, the people that you work with, your family, you might not feel comfortable going to these people. And I do think that comes back to an upbringing thing and I raise my kids now to speak about their emotions and if they're feeling a certain way we really unpack it. I don't feel that was ever there for me as a child. So I feel like my child's emotional intelligence was actually better or as good as mine as a person who was in their mid thirties.

Thomas Batchelor [00:09:30]: My boy at the time was 5, and his emotional intelligence is is really good. He can tell me how he's he's feeling, and, I mean, I couldn't do that as an adult. So I think you have to put your ego aside. You have to really be vulnerable. Vulnerable is probably the biggest word. And then you have to lean into there's plenty of support groups out there. So I went on a retreat with a guy called Mike Dyson, and he ran a retreat called the Good Blokes Retreat. So it was a bunch of like minded men, and we went away for a weekend.

Thomas Batchelor [00:09:58]: It was all facilitated, catered for. It was in a beautiful part of Western Australia down the south region, and it was winter, and we just had real conversations. So I just get tingles running through my body now speaking about it because without that, that was the start of my journey. And then I sat with it, and it was really raw and it was tough for me to do, but I left there and I'm like, you know what? It just continued to gain momentum. And from that point on then I leant into other circles. So I spoke to my work colleagues. I spoke to my family. I spoke to the guys I went to school with and played sport with.

Thomas Batchelor [00:10:35]: And then from that point on it was all out there and I basically said I can't and don't want to do this all on my own. You know, I want to be able to have the support of my friends and family to enjoy this process as much as possible. And the more that I lean into vulnerability, the more I look at my wife and my kids and feel that connection and that love because it works. It simply works. Yes. I don't know really what more to add to that, but it's been a journey and I'm happy that I'm here now.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:03]: Now you and I were connected through Sarah McConachay, who Sarah wrote a book that you were a part of, that you contributed a chapter to. And in that chapter, you talk about a number of the things that you've already talked about already. And I think one of the things that I found really interesting was you talked a little bit about the fact that you mentioned in what you wrote that following instructions and helping out wasn't enough to handle the mental load at home. Can you elaborate on what you meant by the mental load and how you came to understand its impact on you and on your family dynamics?

Thomas Batchelor [00:11:42]: Yeah. So I'd probably just take it back a little bit. During probably my lowest time, it was sort of when COVID hit. My wife was really busy at work and she's always thinking 2 steps ahead. You know, what's for dinner tonight? What's for dinner tomorrow night? Putting on washing. Just constantly thinking, kids' birthday parties. There's constantly things that I feel like in my relationship that the mom and the working mom has to think about so many more things. I don't know whether it's a male default setting because evolution has brought us to this point.

Thomas Batchelor [00:12:11]: I do think that men are probably having to do more outside of their comfort zone now than ever, and maybe that's an to sit with our evolution for a little bit so our kids can see it, and then we can then take on some of that more of that mental load of all the things that the women talk about. So COVID came along. It was really tough for me, but my wife obviously continued to work and continued to do the home stuff. And I would do the home stuff. Don't get me wrong. I would I would help out and do as much as I could. After COVID, we said, right. We need we need to sort of slow things down here.

Thomas Batchelor [00:12:41]: So my wife took a year off of study break. She went back and and studied her master's. And then she said, look, I'm going to start applying for jobs. And if I land a job as a in an executive position, then, you know, maybe I'll wind back at work and I'll have the year off to adjust. And then from that point on, we'll assess it. And I felt like I was a lot more comfortable being at home with the pace of home than sort of going to work and then having to adjust back to the pace of home. So I said, alright. So my wife ended up landing this position at at a at her work or she she applied for this position and got it.

Thomas Batchelor [00:13:18]: And then I asked my work if I could have 12 months off work, and and they said yes, which was which was amazing. And then it was a steep learning curve. So this is where the mental load comes in. So the 1st 2 or 3 months, I remember thinking I was going along okay. And I went out for dinner with my wife about 2 or 3 months in. I said, look, how am I going? And she sort of looked at me and she was a bit reluctant to give me an answer. And I sort of said, what do you mean? She said, look, I just need you to start thinking for yourself now. You need to start thinking about what needs to be done versus what I tell you that needs to be done.

Thomas Batchelor [00:13:51]: And so obviously it was a bit of a shock, but looking back now, she was correct. And it really took the full year, I think by about the 9 month mark, where I was like really gaining some steam then. I was thinking about, again, it was not for dinner tonight but for the next night, putting a load of washing on, making sure that things are away, just small things. So that's when I think I really became a benefit at home is when I could actually start to remove some of the mental load that my wife had. And I do think there's a lot of other women out there who have similar experiences. But it's I don't think it's a I didn't do it on purpose, but I'm a base now compared to where I was a year ago in regards to how I go about things at home.

Christopher Lewis [00:14:36]: So as you think back to that and you think at the future, so you were talking about gender roles and how those changed in that period of time for you and your family. So how have gender roles and expectations evolved for you in your parenting? And how did you and your wife navigate them beyond that period? And how do you navigate them now? And what advice would you give to other families that are trying to find that balance?

Thomas Batchelor [00:15:01]: I've always been a big supporter of my wife. So I've been with my partner since I was 16. We were both going to school together, and I've always been a big supporter of her. And she's very smart, and I've always thought that some of my life's work would be really supporting her in in being the best that she can be. I mean, I really thrive in seeing people that I love around me do well in life. I celebrate other people's victories, and my wife's one of them. So I think going into it, I was probably going into it with a bit of, I'll just I'm going to support my wife, but I really didn't think about all of the things that had to be done at at home and it was a challenge. And I'd say you just have to keep communicating with your partner and just gotta keep communicating and making sure that you're on the same page and you're both pulling in the same direction.

Thomas Batchelor [00:15:48]: And the more, like anything with any job or any type of task, the more that you do it, the better that you become at it. And then the more that you can then focus on other things that you want to in life.

Christopher Lewis [00:15:58]: In raising 2 sons, especially now in what you've learned yourself about gender roles, about the changing gender roles in family dynamics right now, how does that adjust the way that you think as a father? How does that adjust the way that you parent your sons as they grow into a world that will be even more different as they get into adulthood?

Thomas Batchelor [00:16:24]: I've never really thought about the stereotypes as such that man does this, woman does that. I've never been that type of person. I think it'll be great to see in the future my boys of how they probably view it. It will be interesting. I think we're probably at this biggest change in a gender equality or gender stereotype roles more than ever. I do think that it will become the norm, I think, over the next 10, 20, 30 years. I think the numbers are still low. I think the numbers are still very low of men that stay stay home, but it is gaining traction.

Thomas Batchelor [00:16:57]: But it's a hard job at home. It is a challenging job, but I think it's going to be great to see that, yeah, mom and dad are both capable of doing whatever they want in life.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:05]: Now you mentioned the fact that you had an employer that was supportive of this journey that you went on to be able to be engaged at home and also support your partner in the new endeavors that she was endeavoring on. And not every business has done that or will do that. How important do you think it is for workplace policies and support systems to be put into place for families, for fathers, for parents in general to allow for them to have that work life balance that you talked about?

Thomas Batchelor [00:17:42]: Very important. That year off really helped me to adjust. I think if I did it in a part time capacity, I think it would have been a real struggle for me. I think I need that year off to be able to, fully commit to the role, and then now I've adjusted back to 2 days a week. But, I mean, I was there for 12 years before I went on that year. So I've got a a wealth of knowledge, at the power station where I work, and I think it would be not wise to let a lot of that knowledge go. I mean, I feel like I fit really well in with my team and I'm a good team player. I'll help as much as I can where I can, but I do feel like leading into that year, I was having quite a lot of personal leave in regards to this appointment, that appointment.

Thomas Batchelor [00:18:24]: And so now I'm back 2 days a week, work Monday Tuesday, and then a lot of those appointments are scheduled for Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. So I think for the employer, I think it's actually a really good idea because now I'm not impacting the business as much with some of the commitments that I have to with my kids. And I do feel like women probably get a roar end of the deal when it comes to this part time type scenario. My wife tried to work a part time, but it's it's full time work. I mean, they're having to jam a full time job into a part time capacity. I think we've got a long way to go there in regards to the working mum. And I still feel like there's probably with the men, it seems more attractive that a man would stay home and and have the time off, whether I think the women probably get held back a little bit more. I I do think it's we have to do more to support, I think, working mums in the workplace who work in a part time capacity.

Thomas Batchelor [00:19:16]: So I feel like a lot of the stories out there out here is that the moms are having to do a full time load in a part time case, which is I don't think is fair.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:24]: Now a number of the things that you talked about really revolve around that you've gotten to a point where you've identified for yourself the things that you need to be able to do to take care of yourself, but also your family. So I saw this in the piece that you wrote, but also in what you've said that there is a importance that you've placed on self care and communication that seems to be following you now and into the future. Could you share an example for me of how you've incorporated the self care now for yourself in this next phase of your journey of fatherhood and how you hope that that will help you to be able to be an even better father in the future?

Thomas Batchelor [00:20:05]: Again, just getting my priorities straight. So making sure that I'm not saying yes to things that aren't serving me. I don't go out as much as I like to go out for a beer now and again, but I don't push it. So I'm not the guy who who comes home. I haven't got anything against people who want to come home late or they can do these things. If they can fit it all in, they can do it. I just can't do it. So I've got to make sure that I'm getting to bed at a decent time.

Thomas Batchelor [00:20:28]: I'm eating a pretty good diet. I'm exercising regularly. I'm speaking to a psychologist. Just reaching out. I mean, just doing things. I mean, I'm helping in my community. I'll say no to certain things, but I'll say yes to other things, you know, other things that align with my values. And I mean, my priority is my family.

Thomas Batchelor [00:20:47]: And if anything outside of that impact my role as a dad at home, then I have to say, I still struggle to say no. I'm a person that does like to please and does like to say yes. So I've got to keep working at that. And if I do that, then I feel like I'm in the place where I need to be.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:03]: Now I always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Thomas Batchelor [00:21:10]: Yep. Ready.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:10]: In one word, what is fatherhood?

Thomas Batchelor [00:21:12]: Growth.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:13]: Now when was the time that you felt like you finally succeeded at being a father?

Thomas Batchelor [00:21:18]: When I started getting full night sleeps.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:21]: I remember those times. Now, if I was to talk to your boys, how would they describe you as a dad?

Thomas Batchelor [00:21:26]: I would like to say that they think I'm funny, that I'm active, that I'm very supportive of their journey, that they feel safe. I do feel the love and affection from my boys. So I'd like to think that they would think I'm doing a okay job.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:41]: 10 years from now, what do you want them to say?

Thomas Batchelor [00:21:43]: I want them to be able to come to me if they have something going on in their life and say, dad, I need help. And if it's not from me, it has to be from another good man. I do feel like my role as a father is to shepherd them through life and to try and open up as many doors as I can. And if some of those doors they don't want to explore, that's fine. But I really do want to feel like that they can, when they have those bumps along their journey, that they can either speak to me or men like me.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:12]: Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Thomas Batchelor [00:22:14]: Other dads. I say just other dads. Other dads who are going through the same things that I'm going through. I walk through the school grounds and I see the way that dads interact with their kids and that inspires me. I really like seeing that.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:26]: Now you've given a lot of pieces of advice today, things for people to definitely consider and think about and see how they can incorporate that into their lives. As we finish up today, what's one piece of advice you'd want to give to every dad?

Thomas Batchelor [00:22:38]: Just be vulnerable. Speak about the challenges. Just try and be vulnerable. And that's all I can really say. Just be vulnerable. If you can be vulnerable and open and honest about where you're at, then I think most things will flow there.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:51]: Now, Thomas, I mentioned that you are a part of Sarah McConachie's book. We'll put a link in the notes today so people can read your story and check that out. If people want to find out any more about you, is there a best place for them to go?

Thomas Batchelor [00:23:02]: I suppose you could go to LinkedIn or I have got a Facebook account. I'm quite new to all this, so I've enjoyed it. So I don't really have anything else. I'd say probably just reach out to me, and if you want any more of my journey or any of the support groups or just to chat, then I'm always welcome to have a chat with someone who's struggling or just needs a ear to listen.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:24]: Well, Thomas, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey, the highs and the lows, and I truly wish you all the best.

Thomas Batchelor [00:23:31]: Thanks, Chris. I appreciate it.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:32]: If you've enjoyed today's episode of the dads with daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential source for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week. All geared to helping you raise strong and powered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:31]: We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. The world. Choose them. Be the best dad you can be. You're the best dad you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

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Parenting is a journey filled with highs, lows, challenges, and joys, especially when raising daughters in today's complex world. In this week's Dads with Daughters podcast we were joined by Evan Porter, founder of the popular parenting blog Dad Fixes Everything and author of the newly released book Dad Camp. He shared his fears and triumphs of being a father, the transition from blogging to writing a novel, and the importance of balancing personal identity with being an engaged parent.

The Emotional Rollercoaster of Fatherhood

From the moment he discovered he was going to become a father, Evan Porter experienced a whirlwind of emotions. Joy, excitement, fear, and self-doubt all mingled as he stepped into the role of parenting two daughters. Describing his initial reaction, Evan reflected, "It's a blend of having wanted that and planned for that... but also this moment of, 'Oh my god. It's really happening.'"

Porter was candid about the inherent fears tied to raising daughters. "The world is a very scary place for girls and for women," he shared, articulating a concern many fathers share. While the desire to shield his daughters from every possible harm loomed large, he acknowledged the reality that some things inevitably lie beyond parental control.

Understanding Individuality in Parenting

Evan's experience of parenting two daughters, each with distinct personalities, illustrates the universal truth that no two children are the same. He emphasized the necessity of tailoring his approach to fit each child's unique needs and characteristics. This challenge to understand and bond with each daughter individually is a common thread in the tapestry of fatherhood.

With his eldest daughter, now nine years old, Porter finds joy in sharing more complex activities, such as teaching her solitaire and exploring new games. On the other hand, playful activities and light-hearted interactions dominate his relationship with both daughters, underscoring the importance of joy and laughter in strengthening family bonds.

The Struggle of Maintaining Personal Identity

One of the profound topics discussed was the struggle parents face in maintaining their personal identity amidst the demands of parenthood. Porter acknowledged a significant challenge: "Losing sight... of who you are outside of being a father." He articulated the struggle many modern dads encounter—the balancing act of hands-on parenting while trying to retain a piece of their pre-parenthood identity.

This theme of identity loss and the quest to reclaim it runs through his novel, Dad Camp. Written during the COVID-19 lockdown, the book explores a father's journey to rediscover himself while navigating the ups and downs of parenthood. Through fiction, Porter was able to articulate the complex emotions and experiences common to many parents.

The Transition from Blogging to Novel Writing

Porter's journey from running the blog Dad Fixes Everything to writing Dad Camp highlights an evolution in understanding and expressing the parenting experience. His blog began as an informative resource, answering practical queries new parents often face. However, novel writing allowed him to delve deeper into the emotional and psychological aspects of parenthood.

Inspired by his experiences and a need for creative expression during the pandemic, Porter found novel writing to be both a cathartic and fulfilling endeavor. The transition allowed him to address the theme of identity from a broader perspective, capturing the essence of fatherhood with authenticity and nuance.

Celebrating Dads in Fiction

Porter's primary goal in his novel was to offer a relatable and affirming portrayal of modern fathers. He noted that the stereotypical image of the lazy sitcom dad still lingers, overshadowing the dedication and involvement most dads exhibit today. By creating a diverse ensemble of father characters, he hopes to celebrate the multifaceted nature of fatherhood and provide representation that resonates with real-life dads.

As he continues to promote Dad Camp, Porter is already crafting his next literary work, aimed at exploring similar themes of parenthood and identity. His journey as an author and a father is a testament to the continuous evolution and reflection that parenthood demands. Through his writing, Porter hopes to inspire other parents to embrace the complexities and joys of raising children, recognizing the importance of presence, identity, and connection.

In the end, as Evan poignantly observed, "You don't want to miss out on the hard stuff... It's not fun, but you're gonna remember that and you're gonna wanna have those memories." This candid advice encapsulates the heart of parenting—cherishing the moments, however challenging, and appreciating the journey shared with our children.

You can follow Evan Porter on Instagram and learn more about his work on his website.

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to dads with daughters, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, I love being able to talk to you, to walk alongside with you, and to be able to learn alongside you in regards to this journey that we're on in regard to raising our daughters. I know that I'm not perfect. You're not perfect. None of us are perfect when it comes to being a father, but being a father to a daughter as well. We are always going to have a little bit of gap in between the understanding of their experience as individuals, there's always going to be a little bit of a gap when it comes to the way that we think they think and we can always do something we can always do something daily, to be able to better engage to be able to better bother our daughters. And that's what this podcast is all about.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:08]: Every week, I love being able to bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that can help you to add some tools to your toolbox and to allow for you to be able to to learn, to grow, and to take some things along the way that will help you to be that dad that you wanna be. That's why every week I bring you different guests, different people that with those different experiences. And today, we got another great guest. Today we've got another great guest with us. Evan Porter is with us. And he is the founder of the popular parenting blog, Dad Fixes Everything and author of the new book called Dad Camp. Really excited to be able to have him on today to talk about his own journey as being a father of 2 daughters, and to talk a little bit more about his book and what he's learned along the way. Evan, thanks so much for being here today.

Evan Porter [00:02:00]: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I mean, what a great fit. Dads with Daughters is a perfect tie in for the book, and I'm sure we'll get into it.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:07]: I am excited to have you here today. And first and foremost, 1 of the things that I love to do is I love having the power to turn the clock back in time. So I wanna go back in time. And I know you got 2 daughters. So I wanna go all the way back to the beginning. When you first found out that you're going to be a dad to a daughter, what was going through your head?

Evan Porter [00:02:23]: Oh, wow. I think there's a blend of 1 have you know, having wanted that and planned for that and been trying for that, but also this moment, like, oh my god. It's really happening. Like, it's happening so soon. It's happening so fast. Both of both ends of that spectrum of emotion of being so excited that you got what you wanted and you got what you had planned for, but also being like, woah. Wait. Wait.

Evan Porter [00:02:40]: Wait. I'm not so sure I'm ready. Yeah. You know? Can we can we slow it down a little bit? But then, you know, kinda that gives just just gives way to the excitement of, you know, just really looking forward to to that next chapter. And, you know, I've always wanted to be a dad and that was really You know, I talked to a lot of dads of daughters that talk about the fact that it's a little scary, not only to be a father, but to be a father to a daughter, especially at the beginning as you're kind of fumbling a little bit and trying to figure out kind of those first steps and trying to figure out what does it mean to be a dad, to a daughter. Christopher Lewis As you look at the years that you've had thus far with your daughters, what would you say has been your biggest fear or is your biggest fear in raising daughters?

Evan Porter [00:03:15]: I think that the world is a very scary place for girls and for women. And I think that's 1 of, like, the biggest things that I worry about is there's only so much I can do to to keep them safe. And I can teach them, and I can protect them as much as I can. But it is a scary world out there for women and for girls, and it's harder on them in in so many ways. And part of me wanted the opportunity to have a boy at some point just to put another good man out into the world and make the world a little bit of a better place in that regard too. And so not feeling like I have any control over that, I think, is is really challenging. It gives me nightmares.

Christopher Lewis [00:03:45]: Now you do have 2 daughters and anytime you add more than 1 to the mix, you've gotta figure things out in a whole different way. I know in my own experience, both my daughters have very different personalities, and I've had to really work hard to be able to understand them individually and build those unique bonds with each of them. So talk to me about for your 2 daughters and your own experience, what are the favorite things that you and each of your daughters love to share with each other?

Evan Porter [00:04:14]: That's a great question. Yeah. They are so different. I think the nature versus nurture is settled. It's settled in my mind. I think that they are completely different people, completely different ends of many different spectrums. So that's been so, so interesting interesting to think that the way we raise them probably hasn't changed drastically from 1 to the other, but just there's these things in their brains that are wired differently and they're completely, completely different people. And so they each require kind of their own approach. And we have completely, completely different people. And so they each require kind of their own approach, and we have our own relationships. So with my oldest 1 who's 9, I mean, we just love to goof around. I think both I'd love to goof around with both of them. I love to be the silly fun dad throwing them around in the pool and flipping them in the pool. Anytime we can laugh together, playing games or just cracking jokes or making up games on the spot, I think with both of them, that's really, really effective and some of my favorite parts of of being a dad.

Evan Porter [00:04:57]: My older 1 is also kind of getting into just becoming a little adult person. So you can do more complicated things with her. You teach her new things and games and teaching her, like, how to play solitaire or, like, new card games that we can play together. And so I think that's a big theme. I love to just play with them and playing them with them in different ways. And that's just the best part of being a dad. So I try to get as much out of that as possible. Parent is never easy.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:15]:

There are ups, there's downs, there's positives, there's negatives, and it's always changing. What's been the hardest part for you in being a father to a daughter?

Evan Porter [00:05:27]: I think maybe we're skipping ahead a little bit into some of the some of the book inspiration and things like that. But I think losing sight a little bit of who you are outside of being a father and being a parent because it is all consuming. And I think, like, this new generation of dads are is doing so much, and they're very hands on. They're very active and very engaged in it. The slice of the pie that is not related to your kids gets smaller and smaller and smaller. I think you, you know, you lose sight of hobbies and you it's harder to keep in touch with friends and you have less time for yourself and for the other parts of your life. And I think that's a big challenge. Even though parenting your kids is so, so rewarding, you still need that other stuff.

Evan Porter [00:06:00]: And I'm always, like, trying to calibrate and find ways to, like, hold on to, like, little pieces of who I was before kids and, like, who I am outside of being just a father. So I haven't found the magic answer to that quite yet. That's 1 of that's a daily struggle and definitely something that you have to constantly work on. And there's not once you to be honest, I I would say that once you feel like you finally hit your groove, something changes and you have to adjust and change yet again. So it is ever going and ever changing and that's the 1 thing of fatherhood that's the constant is that there is no constant and that you will continuously have to make adjustments along the way. Now you kind of talked about the new book, but I wanna start first at the fact that you have a blog that you started a number of years back, called Dad Fixes Everything. And I guess first and foremost, what made you decide that you wanted to start this blog to be able to talk to other fathers or talk more about your own experiences with a larger audience?

Evan Porter [00:07:03]: It was an outlet for me to practice writing and not the kind of writing that I've done in the book, but marketing and copywriting and blogging and freelance writing and journalism and kind of all these other pieces that I've done over my career and putting them to work for myself. And so I was a new parent at the time. I think my oldest daughter was around 2 or 3 when I launched it, and I was kind of finding myself with all these questions and things that I was wondering about and very like fact based things like what's the difference between, size 4 and 4 T and kids clothes? What is the difference between a mini crib and a crib and a bassinet and a rocker and a glider and, like, kind of all these, like, sort of okay. Like, I need to figure this out. And so kind of researching these things and presenting the information in a way that helped me learn and that hopefully was helpful to other people, that was kind of the inspiration behind the blog. It was just a great outlet to practice to practice writing and practice, some of those other skills that I was talking about.

Christopher Lewis [00:07:55]: I am someone that also had a blog that I started back in 2007. And it kind of grew with me, in my own experiences, I know what you're talking about, and definitely have been there and have done that. And I also am an author. And I know how much time, effort, patience and more goes into a writing of a book, let alone a novel that is as large as your book is. So you went from having this blog, Dad Fixes Everything, to over the years then getting inspired to be able to write a new book, a new book that just came out just recently called Dad Camp. And I guess talk to me about that transition it from writing in a blog sense to now writing a novel that really incorporates in and brings forward a story of a father and daughters to a larger audience as well? What was the inspiration for the book? And what made you decide that you wanted to put all that time and effort into creating this?

Evan Porter [00:09:03]: Feeling a little bored and a little bit stuck with the kinds of work that I was doing and wanting a new challenge. It wasn't my first time doing creative writing. I'd written, screenplays, in my early twenties. I'd done some screenwriting, and I missed writing fiction and just like writing pure creatively that wasn't informational. It wasn't for marketing. It wasn't for copywriting. It wasn't for journalism. It was just for fun and just for the experience of doing it and and for storytelling.

Evan Porter [00:09:26]: And so I just wanted to revisit that again. I took many, many years off of doing that, and I think it was in that kind of COVID lockdown time when I was really cooped up and really feeling stale and stuck and just needing a spark, needing something that was just for me. And so there was something very meta about it because the book deals with so much with that loss of identity as a parent. And for me, writing the book was an attempt to kinda get that back a little bit. There were a couple ways.

Christopher Lewis [00:09:50]: Talk to me a little bit about that, the loss of identity, but also the interplay of fiction and nonfiction, and being able to incorporate some of your own experiences as a father in to this fictionalized account of a father with his daughters?

Evan Porter [00:10:07]: Yeah. Because we touched on having trouble keeping your hobbies and staying in touch with friends and, you know, finding time to exercise or whatever it is that you like to do. And then sort of during COVID time, that was all cranked up to 11. I remember being in the house with the kids. My littlest was just a baby at the time, really doing nothing but taking care of them all day long and never really leaving the house, never seeing anybody, never never doing anything. And so that was really, really tough. And I also felt guilty, like, oh, I should be enjoying this time with my kids. Like, we're spending so much time together.

Evan Porter [00:10:35]: This should be fun. Like, we should be making, like, happy memories and, like, kinda, like, dealing with that that guilt of not enjoying it more. And a lot of those ideas just kind of came out in the book and it felt like a natural thing for me to explore via fiction. And again, you know, there's that sort of meta piece where the dad in the story is going through some of those challenges as well. Of course, not in, like, the COVID environment. Chose to, like, that COVID didn't exist in this story world that I was building. But he was having those same issues losing touch with who he was before. And so I think the early drafts of the book had a lot of heart and a lot of passion and, like, kind of rawness to them because I was, like, living what I was writing about so thoroughly.

Evan Porter [00:11:12]: And then, of course, the novel evolved so much from those early drafts. But, you know, a lot of the the heart of the story was there from the very beginning and was based on kinda what I was going through at that time.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:20]: So as dads are reading this book or anyone that's reading this book, what are you hoping that they take out of this? And what are you hoping that they can then take from this and incorporate into their own life?

Evan Porter [00:11:33]: I want dads to feel seen by the story in some way, even if they don't identify with the main character. There's a whole cast of them cast of different dads at this camp that they go to. And I tried to represent different different types of dads, I mean, different archetypes and kind of uncovering the layers of of all those characters. And I want any any parent really, but especially dads, to be able to see themselves in the story and just kind of feel validated or understood a little bit. I think it's kind of it's tough. I think the sort of ghost of the lazy sitcom dad still hangs over us heavily as a society. And it's I think dads are are really doing a good job for the most part these days and and are not always seen and not always appreciated the way that I think they could be. And I just wanna have good good representation of of dads in fiction, and I think that's what I tried to accomplish here.

Evan Porter [00:12:17]: Even though each of them had their own flaws and their own challenges, I just wanted to kind of, like, have a celebration of, like, some of the good stuff too.

Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]: So now this book is out into the world. And I guess as you look at the future, what is the future for you as a writer, as a father? Are there things that you really would love to be able to do to be able to take what you've done here and take it to a different level or to move in a different direction to tell different stories. What's next?

Evan Porter [00:12:42]: I'm working on another book. I can't say too much about it just yet. In the middle of promoting this 1 and doing doing interviews and all the kind of stuff that I'm doing, I'm working on number 2. So I'm looking forward to being able to talk about that soon. Think it'll have some similar themes in terms of parenthood and moms and dads and all sorts of caregivers and new parents will hopefully be able to relate to it. But this whole process has been so interesting because, you know, I did it just for me and just as something that I wanted to do for myself. And now I'm getting to, like, share that with my family and my kids. I just did my first in person book event at a bookstore, like, with an inner like, a q and a with another author and a signing.

Evan Porter [00:13:16]: And, you know, my daughters were sitting in the front row of the seats kinda, like, staring at me. Like so it was very, very fun to, like, be able to share this with them. And I'm going up to Baltimore in my hometown a couple weeks to do another event, and I'm bringing my oldest daughter with me, and she's gonna kinda share in that experience. It'll be a little adventure for the 2 of us. So and I'm just trying to enjoy it as much as I possibly can, and I hope my, my girls are are proud of me.

Christopher Lewis [00:13:37]: So talk to me about what has been the response from your daughters, as you've read either the whole book to them, or parts of the book to them? And how does that response inspire you or push you to be able to continue that writing?

Evan Porter [00:13:53]: Well, my 3 year old has no idea what's going on. Right? She knows that I wrote a book and she knows what it looks like. She's seen the cover and everything and so she could point it out. She sees it. But she just thinks it's cool that we're having parties and going to book stores and running around. My oldest it is an adult book, I should say. Some people hear the concept and they think that it's for 11 year olds to read, but it's really a fully adult book that's from the adult point of view. And so but my 9 year old thinks it's really cool and she wants to read it.

Evan Porter [00:14:16]: I've let her read little snippets of it here and there. And I think she's really proud and excited. And I think that there was a quote from James Cameron that was watching his documentary about his deep sea diving. And he said something like, even more than your presence, your kids need your example. And so, yeah, I hope that they get something out of watching me kind of, like, pursue my dreams. And even if it doesn't register in the moment, maybe 1 day they'll look back on it and and be inspired by it.

Christopher Lewis [00:14:39]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready? In 1 word, what is fatherhood?

Evan Porter [00:14:48]: Love is the first word that came to mind.

Christopher Lewis [00:14:51]: Now, when was the time that you felt like you finally succeeded at being a father to a doctor?

Evan Porter [00:14:57]: I'll just give you 1 that pops that pops to mind. We were at a feel like a big water slide water park place, and my oldest was scared to get on the big water slide. And I was able to give her, like, a really good fatherly pep talk and get her to work up the courage to do it. And then she was, like, really happy that she did it. And my brother was there with us, and he texted me later. And he was like, that was a great dad speech you gave her. And, he was really impressed with my ability to get her to be brave. And, yeah, that 1 stuck with me. I felt it was cool that I did it and that somebody else recognized it too.

Christopher Lewis [00:15:27]: Now if I was to talk to your kids, and your 3 year old might not say much, but if I was to talk to them, how would they describe who you're dad?

Evan Porter [00:15:33]: Fun and silly. You know, we talked earlier. I'd I'd, like, love to get in the pool with them and throw them around and flip them in the air and, you know, make them laugh. Like, I'll do anything to make them laugh. And that's what I live for. And so I think that's probably what they would say.

Christopher Lewis [00:15:46]: In 10 years from now, what would you say?

Evan Porter [00:15:47]: Remember that I was there all the time. Like, I think that I want them to know that I was always there at the swim meets and the sports games and the school play and never had to miss it for anything else. So regardless of any other way that I might let them down, down, hopefully they just remember that I was always like right there in their corner.

Christopher Lewis [00:16:03]: Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Evan Porter [00:16:04]: It's my own dad. He passed away a number of years ago, but he was a fantastic dad, a great man, very gentle soul. And he taught me so much about being a good writer or being a good dad and being a good man. So I, you know, he's not around anymore, but

Christopher Lewis [00:16:19]: Now you've shared a lot about your experiences thus far, and some of the things that you've learned along the way. As we finish up today and you think about all all dads out there, what's 1 piece of advice you'd wanna give to give to any father?

Evan Porter: You don't wanna miss out on the hard stuff. It is so hard. And, know, there's this funny thing that happens. I think anytime there's a challenge or or a day or your plans don't go the way you thought they would and you're frustrated and tired and sad or whatever. Like, I feel like you always look back and appreciate it and find it funny or it's it becomes a good story or a happy memory in some way. You know, I always use this example of taking the kids to the beach. It's like so much work and it's hot and it's sandy and sometimes it feels like everybody's miserable, but then you look back and you're like, oh, we had such a nice day at the beach. For some reason, our brains are funny like that. And I think like you don't be the guy who didn't change the poopy diapers. I know it's not fun, but you're gonna remember that and you're gonna wanna like have those memories. Trust me.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:14]: Now if people wanna find out more about the book, about your blog, about other things that you're doing, where's the best place where's the best

Evan Porter [00:17:21]: You can follow me on Instagram where I talk a lot about the book and my my journey writing it and promoting it. That's at words by Evan Porter on Instagram. And words by Evan Porter dot com is my website where I share everything about the book and what I'm working on and all sorts of fun stuff like that.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:37]: Well, Evan, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today. Thank you for putting this great book out into the world. Thank you. Thank you for the great questions. Have fun. If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:58]: We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week all geared to helping you raise strong and power daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling You're the best dad you can be.

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Navigating the Journey of Fatherhood

Fatherhood is a complex and rewarding journey that demands a unique balance of strength, empathy, and patience. For fathers of daughters, the stakes can feel particularly high. In a recent episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, hosts Dr. Christopher Lewis, Michael Ramos, and Steven Manchester delve into the nuances of raising daughters, from the initial trepidation to the ongoing quest to raise strong, independent women.

Embracing the Journey Together

Dr. Christopher Lewis opens the episode by emphasizing the importance of community and learning from one another's experiences. "All of our journeys is a little bit different," he notes, "we can learn from each other... as long as you're willing to open yourself up to learning." This sentiment sets the stage for an enlightening conversation with guests who have both navigated this journey and sought to share their wisdom with others.

The Initial Fear and Responsibility

When asked about their first reactions to learning they were going to be fathers to daughters, both Steven Manchester and Michael Ramos admit to feelings of terror. Such an emotional response is not uncommon; many fathers experience fear when anticipating the responsibilities of raising a daughter. Manchester explains, "I needed to do it the right way... kids don't necessarily listen, but they do watch." Ramos, reflecting on his own experience, highlights the ongoing nature of parenthood: "I just had a little baby girl and I brought her home from the hospital... I was going to learn every single day and never stop learning."

Addressing the Biggest Fears

Lewis probes deeper, asking about their biggest fears. Here, Manchester articulates the weight of setting a high standard, "I want me to be the example of what she should expect." For Ramos, the sentiment is similar. He emphasizes the importance of modeling respectful behavior to set high expectations for how his daughters should be treated by others, and also how his sons should treat others.

Overcoming Challenges

Every parent faces challenges, but raising daughters comes with its own unique set of difficulties. Manchester likens raising boys to "playing checkers" and raising daughters to "playing chess." The complexity, he notes, requires a deeper level of empathy and understanding. Ramos concurs, describing the intricate personalities of his daughters and the importance of adapting his approach to meet each of their unique needs.

Building Strong, Unique Relationships

Fostering strong relationships with daughters involves more than just being present; it requires emotional vulnerability and genuine connection. Ramos shares that learning to be nurturing, sensitive, and empathetic was crucial for forging these bonds. Manchester underscores the importance of having individual relationships with each child, independent of the rest of the family.

The Genesis of "The Dad Bag"

The conversation then shifts to the inspiration behind The Dad Bag, a book co-authored by Manchester and Ramos. From the anxious moments of early fatherhood to the realization that parenting lacks an instruction manual, Ramos recounts his journey towards writing a guide that offered practical, heartfelt advice for new fathers. Manchester, an accomplished author, saw an opportunity to create something impactful, noting, "This book has the potential to have more of a positive impact than most of the stuff that I've written."

Lessons from The Dad Bag

The Dad Bag uses the metaphor of a "dad bag" filled with symbolic items to represent life lessons. These items serve as visual aids to reinforce critical messages, making the lessons accessible and memorable for both the father and child. The book aims to break through stereotypes and offer a new model of fatherhood defined by empathy, vulnerability, and engagement.

Be There and Don't Give Up

As the podcast concludes, Dr. Lewis asks for their final piece of advice to fathers. Manchester succinctly states, "Be there," while Ramos elaborates, "Don't give up. You got this." Their words resonate as a reminder that fatherhood is a journey filled with highs and lows, but with presence and perseverance, every dad can make a profound impact on their daughters' lives. For more insights and to get your copy of *The Dad Bag*, visit [Amazon](https://www.amazon.com). Fatherhood is a journey best taken together, learning and growing every step of the way. Here's to raising strong, independent women, one day at a time.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome back to the dads with daughters podcast, where we bring you guys to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women, Really excited to have you back again this week. As always every week, I love being on this journey with you, an opportunity to be able to welcome alongside you as you're working to raise those strong independent women that you want to grow up in society today. And all of our journeys is a little bit different. We're all on a unique journey, but we can learn from each other. We have an opportunity to learn from each other. And every day that we walk on this journey, there's something new that we can learn from the person next door, from the person on the other side of the earphones. It doesn't matter as long as you're willing to open yourself up to learning. And that's what's important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:50]: And every week I work to be able to help you to meet new people, fathers or others with resources, people that can help you to be able to see fatherhood in a little bit different way. Every father fathers in a little bit different way. And there's a lot of resources that are out there as well. Today, we've got 2 great dads with us. Steven Manchester and Michael Ramos is with us today. They both are fathers of 4. We're gonna be talking about their journey as fathers, but also authors. We're gonna be talking about a book that they put out just recently called The Dad Bag, and we're gonna be talking about that as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:27]: So I'm really excited to have them here today and have you learn from their journeys. Steven, Michael, thanks so much for being here today.

Steven Manchester [00:01:33]: Thanks for having us, Chris.

Michael Ramos [00:01:34]: Thank you very much, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:35]: It is my pleasure having you here today. And first and foremost, I wanna turn the clock back in time because I have that power and I love to be able to have our dads do some self reflection here. And I wanna go back to that first moment that you found out that you were gonna be a father to a daughter. What was going through your heads?

Steven Manchester [00:01:52]: Tara. Absolutely, Tara. I think for me, Chris, it was a lot of weight. Right? Because I needed to do it the right way. And we've, you know, as you know, and Mike knows clearly, kids don't necessarily listen, but they do watch. So from the moment we had our daughter, Isabella, I can honestly say she's made me a better person, a better man. And I've been really conscious of what I've done and the things I've said because of wanting to be that dad to her.

Michael Ramos [00:02:13]: I think Steve probably echoed my exact sentiments with Tara, uncertainty. I know I figured it out. I I knew I'd figure it out eventually, and some things would be innate, but there were so many questions that I didn't have. And I think the answer is that I didn't have to questions. And I won't tell you where the dad bag came from yet, but it does directly connect to the moment that I realized, like, I just had a little baby girl and I brought her home from the the hospital. But I think I learned within the first few months that this was a journey and not a destination being a dad, specifically to girls, that I was going to learn every single day and never stop learning because things would always change. And that's exactly what has happened and continues to happen, even with the oldest one being 19.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:58]: Now, both of you said that your first reactions were terror. And that being said, I hear that from a lot of dads, especially dads with daughters, that there is fear, the fear going along with raising daughters. Talk to me about your biggest fear in raising a daughter.

Steven Manchester [00:03:12]: It's my true belief that our job is to to raise them, right? Not keep them. So even from the time that they're young, again, it's all about setting that example, but whoever she ends up with or whoever she has contact with as far as boys or men, I want me to be the example of what she should expect, right? Like the bar should be raised very high. So for me, the tarot really comes from the weight of responsibility, right? Of getting it right. You know what I mean? And it's never gonna be perfect, we all know that. God knows I've made my fair share of mistakes, but the intentions of being conscious of the fact that listen, I need to do the best I can do so that she understands what, you know, what she deserves. Right?

Michael Ramos [00:03:56]: And I think for me, it was very much the same. It's funny because I tell the story and it it applies to both my boys my boy and my girls. But, as far as Steve said, setting the bar. I always wanted my girls to know what the expectation was from the boys that would they would come in contact with. And then I wanted to be the same example for my son so he would know how to treat all of the people, and lead by example in that way. And and somebody had once shared a story, and that's where I learned this from. They shared a story once with me and they said, I want if my daughter goes out on her 1st date at whatever age it is and somebody treats her disrespectfully, I want it to be a red flag. I don't want it to be something that feels normal or feels like she's seen or experienced at home.

Michael Ramos [00:04:48]: So although I think that's who I am anyways, is to be very respectful at all times. It especially made me conscious of the fact that I need to be respectful at all times in my treatment of all women, whether it was a partner, a mother, a grandmother, a sister, because that's the example that I was setting for them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:04]: And raising kids is never easy. There is definitely high points, but there is challenges, there's hard parts. Talk to me about the hardest part in raising a daughter.

Steven Manchester [00:05:14]: Well, I can tell you from experience, you know, I've raised a couple sons and that was like playing checkers. And then along comes my girl and now I'm playing chess at an advanced level. So it's amazing. I mean, you almost have to become an empath in a sense where it's not just the way that you think, it's the way that you feel and trying to understand how they feel and and providing what they need. So for me, the hard part was, I guess, getting out of my way and not trying to fix everything for her. Just being able to listen and just be there for her.

Michael Ramos [00:05:40]: Again, similar. It was being able to determine when I needed to listen and when I needed to solve the problem because they're very different and there will never be any instruction given. There's almost an expectation that and I said because I've had hundreds of conversations with my 2 teenage daughters where sometimes I got it right and sometimes I was listening when I should have been solving and sometimes I was solving when I should have been listening. And I think to answer the question more specifically, what's been the most difficult part for me, I think has has been learning their personalities because I feel like they're a little more deeper and complex than my boy, and I can only draw from that example. But my 3 daughters are all very different from each other. And there's an expression in psychology that they use where you peel the layers of the onion back to get what's inside, to get to what, you know, the deep root of what's inside is. And one daughter wants me to peel the onion very, very slowly over the course of 45 minutes to get to that. The other daughter wants me to smash the onion, which is more my style.

Michael Ramos [00:06:45]: Get what's inside. And then the other one wants me to peel it, like, ever so slowly, then start smashing the load, then go back to peeling. You know, so I think that's been the most difficult part is trying to understand how complex and beautiful their personalities are, how unique they are, and then how I need to then respond differently, learn and grow and do things that don't feel natural to me because my personality tells me to handle everything one way, but they are very different human beings and need me to handle things differently.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:11]: Now you talk about the fact that every child is unique, and that's definitely the case. You can have 2 kids that you come from the same parents, and they can be completely different individuals, and we always see that. So talk to me about with your kids, especially your daughters, how have you been able to build those strong, unique relationships with each of your daughters? And what's your favorite thing that you do and share with your daughters?

Michael Ramos [00:07:42]: So important to me. I think learning that it was okay to be nurturing, learning that it was okay to be sensitive, learning that it was okay to cry. And I'm not saying breakdown crying every 15 minutes throughout the day, but learning that it was okay for me to have emotions because society has dictated to me that I can only be tough, that men don't cry and that men don't have emotions and reactions like that. So I was able to connect with my daughters because I was able to be vulnerable. I was able to connect with my daughters because I knew empathy, because if I didn't know empathy, how could I understand them and be compassionate and be empathetic if I couldn't be that myself? So through a 13 week curriculum that I became a nurturing father's facilitator and worked with a lot of dads and some incarcerated dads. I learned a lot of things that later on in life where I was I was able to, to apply. But I think those things were so critical in order for me to be able to connect with them at the level that that I do where they're so comfortable. They'll talk to me about literally anything.

Steven Manchester [00:08:42]: That's not gonna be easy to follow, Chris. That was fantastic. But I will just add to that and say that for me and Bella, it was just 1st and foremost just being there, making sure that she knows that I'm a vet. I don't care what it is like I'm there. And secondly, I think it's so important to have relationships with each of your kids that are independent of everybody else in the family. So there are times the whole family is doing things, and then there's times where I just go out to to lunch with my daughter. And then we talk about and it's a a relationship that I've established just between her and I, and I think that's where the trust is born and it's kind of built on. I don't ever want her to play, you know, need to feel like she used to play favorites, but it's, it's also, it's very, very important to me if you're feeling down, you'll just need to go to your mother.

Steven Manchester [00:09:23]: You can come to me as well. And to Mike's point, being aware of the fact that I need to have that empathy, I need to show that empathy, and And I may not have all the answers. And even if I do, she probably doesn't wanna hear them anyway. So again, it's just being available and and, making sure she knows that I have her back, which is an odd way to put it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:42]: But Now I mentioned at the beginning that the 2 of you came together to write a newer book called dad bag or the dad bag. And, I guess I wanna go back before I ask you some questions about the book itself. Let's go back to the genesis of this because I know, Steve, you've been an author for many years, your style of writing is a bit different than what this is. So so talk to me about how the 2 of you came together and why you decided to come up with this concept and put it onto paper.

Michael Ramos [00:10:12]: So, let me just stop by saying I just need to give a little kudos to the amazing human being, father, and friend that Steve is because Steve Manchester, I've known as an author and I've known as a friend. I don't consider myself to be an author. This was something very important to me, and he's done presentations for me and in front of dad's groups and for private agency and also some state agencies. So I knew that he would be the perfect person. Where it came from was early, you asked, the terror feeling of knowing that I was having a little girl, but also just like a child, period. I remember bringing my daughter home from the hospital and putting her on the floor in the car seat. And I was sitting in the living room by myself, and I looked down at her in the car seat, sitting there between my legs. And I said, geez, what do I do now? And I went, well, I guess I should take her out.

Michael Ramos [00:10:58]: That's a stop. Let me take her out of the car seat. And I mean, I kinda knew what to do, but, like, I also didn't. So I figured it out, stumbled along over the next, like, you know, week or 2, and then the remote control broke for the TV. So I went to RadioShack for anybody under 40 who's listening. That's, an electronics saw that once was in business. But I went to RadioShack and I bought a new new remote control for the TV. I brought it home and I opened it up.

Michael Ramos [00:11:27]: It was like $6.99, and it had 12 pages of instructions in 5 different languages. And I said, this remote control comes with that many pages of instructions in so many different languages. And I just brought a beautiful little human being home from the hospital with, like, no directions whatsoever, with no instruction, with no anything. And I said, gee, someone should write a book, not only just for parents to come home from, like, you know, the the hospital with, but especially dads. And that's where the dad bag came from. Steve and I had already worked together doing some fatherhood work, him mostly doing some presentations. And I was already doing nurturing fathers and also some a lot of presentations nationally. And I reached out to him and just just like that, he said, love it.

Michael Ramos [00:12:14]: Love the idea. Let's do it. And I know that fatherhood is so important to him. I knew it just would be a great marriage to, get the book written.

Steven Manchester [00:12:22]: I gotta tell you, it was a no brainer for me because first and foremost, I really admire Mike. The things that he's done in the community, for the state, the impact that he's had on people, how can you not get your wagon to that? So some of the themes that I've had in my writing over the last 30 years really has a lot to do with fatherhood. Mike and I are really big on there's a big difference between being a father and being a dad, and it's like kinda hammering that stuff home. I also have a background in the prison system. I worked for the Department of Correction for 10 years. So I saw guys that were leaving without a clue on how to father their children. And you think, what a tragedy, right? Because generationally, that's, you know, that's potentially, you know, absolutely awful, right? So, it made perfect sense. And when we got together Mike's concepts, we were able to flesh them out.

Steven Manchester [00:13:04]: It took some time. We had to find the right illustrator in Stephanie Grassi, who's just a wonderful person as well. So this hasn't been any work at all. For me, it's been a joy. And I really think, I mean, I normally write adult novels, write 90,000 words. This book, I don't know what even it came in at, but I think this book has the potential to have more of a positive impact than most of the stuff that I've written. And I I'm grateful to Mike for that opportunity to be able to be a part of

Michael Ramos [00:13:29]: it. Ironic. I'm more grateful to you. So that's really nice.

Steven Manchester [00:13:33]: And I I do mean that sincerely, right, for the people that are listening. I think, you know, Michael will get into this a little bit too, but it's not a bad bag, but it's really I think it's for the family. I think it's for the entire family. I think it's for the dad kind of being able to help mom out or step up and and, you know, do what he's supposed to do. But in a way that what I love about this is it's really almost an instruction guide that's disguised as a children's book. So if dad's reading that to to, you know, his child and dad's also learning as well. Right? And I'm a firm believer we're all in the same boat. Right? It's just you gotta pick up a paddle and start rowing, and I think that's what this book's about.

Michael Ramos [00:14:08]: There's so much data and statistics out there that prove that mom's health is increased significantly when dads are engaged. There's factors and indicators for breastfeeding that more moms breastfeed and are likely to breastfeed if they have dads engaged. And it makes sense why. And it makes sense that there's moms that are under less stress when dads are involved because dads are helping out. And we know parenting for mom or dad, because both are critically important, is very difficult if you're doing it alone. I mean, I think that's also one the things that we like to drive home is that dads really need to be engaged and involved. And the difference between being a dad and being a father is exactly that. It's not just buying a ball for your kid and saying, oh, here, I bought this ball for you.

Michael Ramos [00:14:49]: And then going in the house, it's stopping to teach the rules, to play the game, to, you know, to teach kids how to self regulate. It's all of those things. And while you're doing that, mom gets a break too and vice versa.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:02]: Now in the book, one of the things that I noticed was that the father in the story talks about the importance of effective communication. How do you think his approach to communication differs from the conventional methods and why do you think it's effective?

Michael Ramos [00:15:18]: I think it's because mostly what I was saying before about empathy and compassion and being able to look at the communication from a different perspective and not from the more conventional model. And although I I think there's been a lot of movement more recently with lots of men in this country and lots of dads. I still think there's a lot of dads that still believe that they are the disciplinary, that they shouldn't cry, that they shouldn't have emotion, that they are supposed to be strong and tough. And you can be those things too, but you can also have compassion, be empathetic, and be an engaged dad. It'd be nurturing. And I think that's the difference in the approach. That's the difference in the patience. That's probably a keyword there.

Michael Ramos [00:16:02]: The patience that it takes to develop those relationships and understand that with 3 daughters, the dad in the book was specifically just the boy and the girl, but the dad in the book's ability to understand and that that's what it took in order to connect with the children and was that a level of patience to really understand them and be able to see that empathy and that compassion.

Steven Manchester [00:16:24]: For me, like the communication, this book in many respects is, I think we're trying to break through some stereotypes. And when you look at a generation just prior to us, my father and his brothers and my grandparents, and it went from you to be seen and not heard to my father would listen, but empathy, I'm not sure, was at the top of the list. He was putting food on the table, shoes on your feet, and if you cry, then he didn't care for it. So for me, and I'm gonna just switch real quickly right to my sons. If my sons fell down and scraped their knee, I don't I don't want anybody crying. Right? We we talked about that. But if there's something that really hurt them and it hurt their soul, I'll sit and cry with them. And it was so, so important, like, when my parents passed, I watched my kids watching me and I didn't hold back.

Steven Manchester [00:17:05]: And I also talked about it. So Mike brought up the word earlier, vulnerable, and I think that's the key here. I believe some men see things as weakness, right, when they show their feelings. For me, that's true strength. I mean, that's strength to be able to show your children, I also have feelings, I also mourn and grieve and, you know, I'm happy and I'm sad. By sharing that with your children, you also give them permission to do the same. And I think it just bonds you closer. Right? My kids are more apt to come to me because I'm not going to judge them based on their emotional reaction.

Steven Manchester [00:17:33]: And I think that's one of the things I really love about this book. And Mike's concepts, even, you know, very early on from boys playing with a doll or girls asking questions, like, for me, it was like kinda let's let's just break through that and be honest. Just be vulnerable and honest. And and I think that's where the magic is in this book.

Michael Ramos [00:17:49]: You know, to expand a little bit on what Steve said with a slightly different concept, it also makes me feel strong to be able to care for my my children. So, yeah, it's a it's a sign of strength, like like Steve said, to be able to be vulnerable and to be able to give your children permission to feel those feelings too. But it also makes me feel strong to change a diaper and to be able to cook food and to be able to care for my children and nurture my children because culturally and also generationally, historically in my family, that's not something that men do. Men don't change diapers. Men don't wash clothes, do laundry. They don't do any of those things. I've always seen that as a sign of weakness. It makes me feel strong to know that I can take care of myself and my children at all times if I need to.

Michael Ramos [00:18:31]: It feels completely opposite to me if I have to rely on someone else to do those things because I I'm just not or I don't know how. So also, I think that's to answer your question too a little bit, that's probably a less conventional approach, but I think that's changing and I'm very happy that that's changing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:46]: I noticed also in the book that the book is called The Dad Bag. The father uses various items from his dad bag as symbolic representations of life lessons. Can you discuss the significance of the metaphor that you're using here and how it adds depth to the narrative?

Steven Manchester [00:19:03]: I think this is very intentional, right, right from the beginning that we were gonna use a backpack called the dad bag, much like a mom would have a diaper bag. The dad has the because this book was written really for for families and and children from, you know, because this book was written really for families and children from 5, you know, 5 years old on. So to look at visuals and then hear the narrative that goes along with it, I think it helps the dad or the protagonist within the story, as well as the dad who's reading the book, you know, to to his child, right? Whether it be a boy or a girl. For me, it's just again, I think kids are very visual and I think it helps to carry those lessons. It's easy to remind a kid, if you're talking to them about a certain lesson in years and a prop, later on, all you have to do is pull up the prop, and the message has been received again.

Michael Ramos [00:19:50]: I love the representation of each item, and I feel like there could be a 1,000 things in every dad bag because of all the the life lessons, but that's where the onion peeling, that's a very personal family specific story with one of my daughters. We've we've talked about this. She'll actually reference it and say, papa, I need you to peel the onion. So we use that. It's a metaphor and it's something that, you know, you way of addressing and and introducing something in the book, but it it comes from draws from a an an actual experience that's really helped with communication that's been used a number of times where one daughter will say, you could just bust the onion because, like like, I'm going out tonight. Like, my friends are picking up in 10 minutes. You know what I mean? Or they'll say, I'm a you could just bust that onion open. So with that, everybody that ends up buying, I'm gonna send onions to everyone.

Michael Ramos [00:20:39]: No. Nobody's getting onions. I'm just I'm just kidding.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:42]: Now I'm not gonna give up the end of the book, but I will say that the father at the end does share a heart felt letter that he wrote to his kids before they're born. How do you think this letter really encapsulated or encapsulates the father's hopes and aspirations for his children's future?

Steven Manchester [00:20:59]: I think it's a representation of the responsibility that he feels. I think the important piece here, Chris, is that he wrote it before that child was born. So to Mike's earlier point, it's so important to learn each of their personalities and to be able to almost retrofit how you father, right, or how you parent. What I like about that piece of the book is that he wrote it from his heart before this child was born, right? So these are his aspirations, his dreams, and also the responsibility he feels, right, to be the right dad for this kid. And in

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:25]: the end, as people are reading this book, as they are reading it to their own kids, what are you hoping that the fathers that are reading this are gaining from it personally? And what are you hoping that their families gain from it?

Michael Ramos [00:21:39]: I'm hoping that at the very, very least, just a sliver, if the dad learns or a light turns on that there is more than one way and that there's a possibility to think outside of the box and it helps him have less fear, not have that terrified feeling. And that's why the goal for me is to have this this book literally in every single hospital in the country. Because for me, it doesn't make sense that any dad should ever leave the maternity ward of a hospital with a human being without having this book in their hand because it exists. And because it's an instructional manual, it just makes sense to me because then dads don't have to be afraid. Dads won't buy remote control that have more instructions than their child's will have that they will have brought their child to him from the hospital and it'll help with that fear. And that's what I hope the dad gets from it. And if the dad gets that, the family gets everything. So I don't even need to say what the family will get from it because if the dad, they all win.

Steven Manchester [00:22:31]: That's a great answer. For me, I get, you know, I I've read this book 7000 times. Right? So you get to the end of it. It's almost like a sub, like a subtle contract, right, between the father and his child, where it's like, I'm setting some expectations for you, but really what's happening is he's setting expectations for himself. He's kinda laying it out there for his daughter or his son. So I love that piece of it. We don't use a sledgehammer to, you know, slam people over the head with it, but dad legitimately sits down and reads this to his daughter, then there are some expectations that are there. And so to to Mike's point, right, some of the fear hopefully gets dispelled and and this dad understands stands.

Steven Manchester [00:23:05]: He's not the only one in the boat. We got a lot of people in the boat, so stop rowing. Mike's tying.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:09]: And now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as dads. So I'm gonna ask you both. So first and foremost, in one word, what is fatherhood? Love.

Steven Manchester [00:23:21]: I'm gonna say commitment because you use love.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:24]: Now when was the time that you felt that you finally succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Steven Manchester [00:23:31]: Never. I'll say the same. I can't use one word, but it still hasn't happened. And I'm not sure it will until I draw my last breath.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:37]: Now, if I was to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad?

Michael Ramos [00:23:41]: I would say loving. It depends on the kids. I hear cool a lot, but that's I sing in a rock band, and I have lots of tattoos. So, like, to daughters, I'm like a really cool dad. There's a lot of words, but I do hear cool a lot. Like, I'm a cool dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:55]: Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Steven Manchester [00:23:57]: I would say the kids. I would say each one of my children because I owe that to them.

Michael Ramos [00:24:01]: Everything that was missing in my life from a father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:05]: Now you've both given a lot of pieces of advice today, things that you shared in the book, but also things that you've learned in your own journeys. As we finish up today, what's one piece of advice you'd want to give to every dad?

Steven Manchester [00:24:18]: For me, it's 2 words, be there. Above all things, just be there.

Michael Ramos [00:24:22]: I'd add on to it. Don't give up. You got this because I think that's what I've learned from working with so many dads over the past 15 years or so is that a lot of dads just give up or they don't feel like they're good enough. And if they can't be perfect, then they don't wanna let their kids down. So that's why they check out and that's why they're not engaged. And they're not there, like Steve's saying, to be there. Don't give up on yourself. You got this.

Michael Ramos [00:24:44]: And, yes, be there. It'll all come. And make the mistakes. It's okay to make the mistakes. We all do. That's called being human. It has nothing to do with being a father. It has to do with being you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:53]: Now if people wanna find out more about the book or about either of you, where should they go?

Steven Manchester [00:24:57]: First and foremost, amazon.com would be the first place that they can go to. So the book's available as an ebook. So we you have the electronic version and it's also print. It's done in print as well. And we have some I don't think it's something we'll talk about today, but we have some big plans for this book to introduce to the masses. And the hope is, again, to Mike's point, whether it be hospitals, prisons, to get this book out in mass where we can make as much impact as possible.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:27]: A stories, your journey today. I truly appreciate you being here, for sharing your voice, and I wish you both the best.

Steven Manchester [00:25:34]: Thanks, Chris. We appreciate you.

Michael Ramos [00:25:35]: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely, Chris. And thank you for being such an amazing host and making such a comfortable interview.

Steven Manchester [00:25:39]: And thank you for everything you're doing for the dads out there, Chris. We appreciate that. We really do.

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