Dads With Daughters w/ Dr. Christopher Lewis

In the realm of parenting, fathers play a pivotal role in shaping their children's lives, especially daughters. The journey of fatherhood is complex, filled with joys, challenges, and continuous learning experiences. In the Dads with Daughters podcast episode featuring Joe Bovell, a father of two, a profound discussion unfolded regarding the evolving dynamics of raising daughters. Let's delve into the insightful dialogue and extract key takeaways on navigating the path of fatherhood.

Embracing the Journey of Parenthood

Joe Bovell's narrative sheds light on the profound transformation that occurs when one becomes a father. The initial emotions of surprise and delight upon discovering the gender of his children set the stage for a journey filled with expectations, fears, and aspirations. Embracing fatherhood as a collaborative effort with his wife, Joe highlights the importance of being present and actively engaging in his children's lives from the moment they enter the world.

Navigating Fears and Challenges

As daughters transition through different stages of life, fathers like Joe Bovell acknowledge the evolving fears and challenges that come with the territory. From the desire to protect their daughters in their early years to confronting the societal pressures and influences as they grow older, the complexities of fatherhood magnify over time. Joe's exploration of the generational differences and the impact of social media on his daughter's growth provides a poignant reflection on the constant adaptation required in modern-day parenting.

Balancing Work, Life, and Parenting

An integral aspect of Joe's journey as a father is balancing his professional commitments with his role as a parent. As the CEO of Eco Growth International, Joe emphasizes the significance of quality over quantity when it comes to spending time with his family. Striving to be an engaged and supportive father amidst a busy schedule, Joe's approach reflects the ongoing quest for balance and prioritization in the realm of work-life integration.

Drawing Inspiration from Personal Challenges

Joe Bovell's upbringing in poverty and adversity serves as a foundation for his parenting philosophy. The resilience and work ethic instilled by his life experiences shape his perspectives on fatherhood and drive him to provide a safe and secure environment for his children. Joe's reflection on the absence of a father figure in his life underscores the profound impact of personal adversities in shaping one's values and aspirations as a parent.

Continuous Growth and Reflection

One of the most profound insights shared by Joe Bovell is the importance of continuous growth and reflection as a father. Acknowledging the feedback from his children, embracing the changing dynamics as they transition into adulthood, and navigating the fine line between guidance and autonomy, Joe exemplifies the essence of evolving as a parent. The journey of fatherhood is marked by learning on the job, adapting to new challenges, and striving to be the best version of oneself for the sake of one's children.

In essence, Joe Bovell's journey as a father provides a poignant narrative on the highs, lows, and intricate nuances of raising daughters. His reflections on fears, challenges, and the continuous strive for improvement paint a vivid picture of the multifaceted nature of fatherhood. As fathers navigate the complexities of parenting, Joe's insights serve as a guiding light, emphasizing the importance of presence, resilience, and a constant commitment to being the best dad one can be in shaping the lives of their daughters.

Joe Bovell was a part of Sarah Maconachie's book of stories about fathers called Working Dads and Balancing Acts.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to sit down, talk to you to be able to be on this journey with you. Because I know it is a journey. You know, I've got 2 daughters myself. I know you've got daughters, and you are going through this journey just like I am. You may have really young daughters, you could have teenage daughters, you could have grown and flown daughters, but we're all on a journey to help our daughters to be able to be those women, those strong, independent women that I already mentioned, but that we want them to be in life. And that's why the show exists.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:01]: It exists because I want to help you along this path. I am not an expert, but it is important to be able to walk together in this journey, because we can always learn and grow and be better as fathers. And that's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests, different dads, different people, people with resources, people with different experiences and and on different journeys that can help you to see your own journey of fatherhood in a little bit different way. And by hearing these experiences, my hope is that you're adding some tools to that toolbox that you're carrying with you. And that that will help you in the journey that you're on. This week, we've got another great guest with us today. Joe Bovell is with us today. And Joe is a father of 2.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:56]: He's got a son. He's got a daughter. And we're gonna be talking about the journey that he has been on as a father himself. And I'm really excited to be able to talk to him today. Joe, thanks so much for being here today.

Joe Bovell [00:02:07]: Welcome, Chris. Thank you. I'm looking forward to this. Well, I'm

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:10]: really excited to have you here today. And I always start the interviews with an opportunity to kinda go back in time. We're gonna turn the clock back a little bit. And I said, you have a son, you have a daughter, and we're gonna focus on your daughter today. But I want you to go back to that first moment that you found out that you were gonna be a dad to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Joe Bovell [00:02:27]: Well, I found out as she was born. So it seems to be a bit against the norm now where a lot of people wanna know the sex of their child before well before they're born. We took the decision with both our children to not do that. So so that was a great surprise, and I'm glad we did that. So our son was born first as you touched on. So it was great when I found out I had a daughter because that was the pigeon pear. That was fantastic to have that moment where we said, okay. Let's let's work out.

Joe Bovell [00:02:53]: You know, we're being blessed. We've had, a boy and a girl. We had a lot of difficulties through both pregnancies. My wife did, not me, of course. But and she had morning sickness for every single day of each pregnancy up until the day including the day they were born. So we were only ever gonna have 2 children. So the fact that Stephanie was born was, yeah, it was a great delight.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:13]: Now, you know, I talked to a lot of dads, that have daughters, and a lot of the dads talk about that there is fear that goes along with raising daughters. Now, you had a son first, then you had your daughter. Talk to me about what was your biggest fear in raising a daughter?

Joe Bovell [00:03:29]: I think those fears have evolved as she's gotten older. There's certainly the protective mood kicks in in those early years and and her development. But I'd say in the last 5 years, the pressures of social media, expectations of society to act and look in a particular way, that's certainly my greatest fears right now because I can see how it's influencing her how it influences her friend network, and how they communicate with each other is just so different. And I think one of my fears was the generational difference in how I grew up versus how she's growing up, and it is so different. And as a parent, you're trying to manage that sit a situation that you really have little control over. So I think the early stages because we had an established family and have a son first, there weren't as many fears. But I think now that she's interacting with the wider world, the fear has heightened, particularly in the last 5 years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:25]: So as you talk about the fear being heightened, what is that fear now?

Joe Bovell [00:04:29]: It's quite significant, particularly because I think as she's getting older and developing and growing into being a woman, I can see the pressures, societal pressures coming on to her to look a certain way, to act a certain way, to like a certain musician, to be accepted in the group. And how her friends and schoolmates actually interact with each other, and how we can escalate so quickly. So if one person doesn't get invited to a party and that person finds out about it, it sets off this chain of events that really, as I say, escalates into something that gets out of control pretty quickly. And I can see the pressure bearing on her, and then that obviously affects me as a father because you have little to no control over it. And I think it's that I can see that building as she's getting older, and that might change or tap out when she gets to 18 or 19. But at the moment, as a 15 year old, to me, it appears to be at its highest.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:22]: Now there are definitely highs and lows to fatherhood and parenting. There are good times. There's challenging times. Talk to me about what's been the hardest part about being a father to a daughter?

Joe Bovell [00:05:35]: It's a really good question because I think there's so many layers. But maybe my first reaction is, in a lot of ways, my daughter has a really close relationship with her mom, and I think that's that's vitally important and not as close to to me. So you have to reconcile that that she is gonna do some more things with her mom because the girl thinks, and they're gonna enjoy that exploration together. And maybe a lot of the interest I have don't sort of resonate with her. So I think it's accepting that you have a particular role to play in your daughter's life, and I might necessarily be the friend or the mate that say mom is. It's more the mentor and that type of role. So relationship shifting from that really close bond to we're still close, but it's not not as close as what it was perhaps 5 years ago. Because she's developing and emerging and and forming her own opinions on life.

Joe Bovell [00:06:25]: Right? So I think that's probably the greatest challenge. There's others, of course, but I think that's probably the greatest for me personally as a dad and how I manage that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:33]: I know you're a busy guy. You are the CEO and Managing Director at Eco Growth International. And that alone is a very busy job. And then you have your family, you have your other responsibilities, you're balancing a lot of different things, wearing a lot of hats. So talk to me about balance and what you do to be able to be that engaged dad that you wanna be.

Joe Bovell [00:06:55]: Yeah. I think it's about making the most of the time that you have together and having quality rather than quantity. And, look, they've grown up. Steph's grown up with me in this role, you know, half her life. So she's accustomed to me traveling or doing longer working hours or whatever that might be. So that's the norm. I mean, it's pretty normal now when I can go on a trip and she comments and perhaps did I even go away. So and that's not that she didn't miss me, but she's just so used to me not being there.

Joe Bovell [00:07:23]: And I think and that's like, I spoke on her in your earlier question about the bond with her mom is closer because she spends more time with her. So it's a really difficult balance, and I I do I wouldn't say I have an issue with it, but I would challenge the notion of work life balance. I don't I don't think there is. Trying to get that balance, I think, is incredibly difficult. And if you can do that, then I'll take my hat off to you. But I've always gone with the moments that really matter, I want to be there. So be that a school assembly or an award or a presentation or a sporting event, to me, that's vital that I'm there, and work absolutely comes second in those occasions. Work is not everything.

Joe Bovell [00:08:04]: So that's where I try and make that balanced choice. It's go okay. It I don't know. It sounds like prioritization, but it's actually saying what are the moments that really matter and and being engaged in those moments as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:21]: Now you and I were connected through Sarah McConachie, who you wrote a piece of her new book in working dads and balancing acts. And in that book, you you talk about the fact that your childhood wasn't the easiest. You had a single mom, you you grew up in poverty and adversity. And that helped as you write in your in your, piece, that it really shaped a sense of resilience in you and a work ethic that remains with you today. And in that you talk about the absence of a father figure in your life. So talk to me a little bit about that absence, and how you push through that when you became a father, to be able to define fatherhood for yourself and to be the father that you wanted to be?

Joe Bovell [00:09:19]: That was certainly my greatest fear, when we found out my wife was pregnant, was what kind of father would I be? Because I had no I had no benchmark. So I I never met my father at all, so there was no relationship whatsoever. I didn't have any male mentors in my life growing up either. Obviously, I was very close to my mother. But I didn't have that I didn't have anything shaping me in terms of being a father. So when my, son was born, I hadn't even held a baby. And when I had friends who had babies, I'd always avoided it because I always felt I was gonna break them if I held them. But, but now yeah.

Joe Bovell [00:10:09]: So moving through that journey, I think you you come back to your own principles of doing what you feel is right. You know that you're gonna make mistakes. I've made I think I've made a lot of mistakes, in my in being a father. And would that have been different if I'd had a father figure in my life growing up? I'm not sure. I always took the position that I was fortunate in not having a father. And the reason I say that because, you know, how many children have, you know, parents who go through divorce or they have a a household that's not safe? And so just because you have a father doesn't necessarily mean it's great. So that was my one of my coping mechanisms, I guess. So I don't know how I became a father.

Joe Bovell [00:11:02]: I just it just it was a lot by accident, and I learned on the job. And I think what what I touched on in the chapter was that I just felt that what I've gone through in my life, I did not want to have that repeated. So that was my guiding light in being a father. And like I said, I'm not perfect, and I do certainly things I do differently. But I think, overall, that was the the guide for me to be the father that I am.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:38]: Now I mentioned the fact that in what you wrote, you also talked about growing up in poverty and adversity. How did that shape your perspectives on life and on fatherhood?

Joe Bovell [00:11:53]: On the on the life front, it it it shaped pretty quickly that if you wanted something, you had to go and, work for it. You had to you had to earn it. There was no nothing was gifted, and that you had the choice. So you came to a fork in the road that you could go the right way or the wrong way, or you could choose to stay in poverty, you could choose to be uneducated or not be a nice person, or you can actually choose to be the other way. So go the other way. So and we spoke earlier. My career path and life path hasn't certainly been linear, but it's always been guided by a drive that you can't implant into many people, and my kids don't have it. And I think that's really interesting because I've tried to help build resilience with them.

Joe Bovell [00:12:43]: So it's difficult if you don't suffer adversity to build resilience. They sort of go hand in hand. So that's only shaped everything, and I started work part time when I was 10 years old, which seems pretty foreign there. Back in the early eighties, that wasn't so uncommon. But we because we had no money or, opportunity and you had friends who were doing things that you couldn't do because you couldn't afford them, you didn't have a choice. Do we go and sell newspapers and be able to be part of that or not? And I haven't been out of work since. So and it probably annoys my kids because in some ways, I have an imposter syndrome. Well, I think I do have an imposter syndrome, not in some ways.

Joe Bovell [00:13:20]: And there's a fear of losing what you have, and I'm not sure that'll ever leave me. So I could be a multimillionaire, and I still might feel that it could all be taken away from me tomorrow. So that's good and bad. That certainly goes a great driver, but what it can affect is your ability to enjoy the moment. And I think that's been probably the feedback from my daughter particularly that I'm not enjoying the moment. I'm always thinking a couple of years ahead or I'm thinking about protecting what we have and not enjoying it as much as what we can. As I get older, starting to, loosen up on that a little bit.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:56]: Now you mentioned the fact that as you were growing up, you didn't have a father figure. There were no father figures in your life. You were close to your mother, but you had that lack of a father figure. And as you walked into fatherhood, as you mentioned, hadn't held the baby, you thought you were gonna break the baby. You know, you had a lot to learn and that you kind of figured out what being a father was. Who or what did you turn to to be able to model after without having that father figure in your life to be that father that you wanted to be?

Joe Bovell [00:14:29]: I have to say it's my wife. So we had the same commitment to raising a family in a particular way, so we're on the same page. So even at that point, I still didn't have a male mentor. And as you well know, men aren't particularly good at talking to each other or being open in their communication. So dads don't sit around in father's groups like moms do in mother's groups and share their experiences and share helpful advice. Dads almost said it's a badge of honor to not ask for advice, which is not necessarily a good thing. Back in my generation, at least, I think it's improving, and I think there's more content education available to young fathers. So I've had to say my wife because we had a a firm commitment to raising our children in a certain way, and that was the way we wanted to do it.

Joe Bovell [00:15:15]: So no. I didn't actually still at that point have a male influence on my life other than what I read or digested online.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:23]: Now you mentioned that in what you wrote that one of the things that you really wanted to do was provide a safe and secure upbringing for your kids, free from the struggles that you faced. So talk to me about how you balanced protecting them while also allowing them to learn and grow from the challenges that they would face as they grew up.

Joe Bovell [00:15:45]: The provision of the safe family unit again, I've gotta give my wife credit for that as well. I I can't claim all of that. I think a lot of that happened in the background and that they weren't necessarily aware of that, and perhaps they got given too much. That's probably one of the other struggles I have. And that is there an overcorrection in providing far too much when, say, you missed out on it and then you wanna make up for that to some degree. So which again is good and bad. It's great to have to been able to have done that for them, but there's also comes an expectation and entitlement, which I don't think is fabulous for helping them in that sense. So and my wife has always spoken about that.

Joe Bovell [00:16:22]: We probably should've peeled that back a little bit. So we achieved what we wanted to do in providing that safe family home, but did we overcorrect and not build resilience and build in a modicum of entitlement and that things might come a little bit too easy. And that's the really difficult part. I think that's been the hardest part for me in parenting. It's been that balancing between giving enough or too much or not enough. And I think sometimes you don't know that till you get to the end, until they get to 18 or 20. You might get little hints along the way, but you might not actually see, say, a sense of entitlement or lack of resilience until they're 16. And is that too late?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:01]: Now all of us are not perfect, and we have to learn and grow and become better as we move through fatherhood. What would you say have been some of the strategies that you employed to continuously improve as a dad? And how do you handle setbacks or moments when you feel like you've fallen short?

Joe Bovell [00:17:21]: I think the feedback from the kids is probably the greatest tool, which is an interesting one because as they're developing and forming their own opinions and and they become more vocal in that, you're realizing what your impact has been as a parent. Doesn't mean they're always right though, I gotta say, because their opinions and learnings are based on what they know at that point in time, and they might not be privy to the background information. So I remember reading somewhere or heard somewhere not that long ago that someone said that, you know, how to become a great parent of an 18 year old. And they said, well, I'm not bad, but I don't know how to be the parent of a 19 year old. Because it was the first time they had evolved. And I think that's the learning on the job that I've mentioned earlier that being a dad to a 6 year old is so different to a 15 year old. As we know, it is just radically different. You go from helping them grow and be a a person.

Joe Bovell [00:18:12]: They can start to look after themselves and and teach them the basics of life and to then someone who's then forming really strong opinions on the world and they're forming their own character. And there's inevitable clashes with that, clashes in our deals and philosophies. That's been a challenge. So I think the thing I've learned is that you go from protector and teacher, you need to then become more of a listener than a doer and be more there if they need you rather than being there a 100% of the time. And that's taking me a fair bit of brain power to wrap my head around that because, again, that's probably the biggest challenges of being dead, Particularly for me was you go from the protected provider to actually, we don't need you to do that anymore, dad. Actually, why don't you back off a bit? Because you're actually you've been a security guard all this time. We don't need that. We're finding our own way in the world.

Joe Bovell [00:19:02]: We need you to be there if we need you. So you can feel a bit redundant, but I'll look at that too and say, yeah. But that's part of our job, isn't it? That we're preparing our children for adulthood. And if they should, in some ways, be disconnecting from us, cutting the umbilical cord to a degree, but hope that they come back when they need to.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:20]: Now you've kind of talked about this in trying to raise your kids to be prepared for the future. And I know in what you wrote, you talked about wanting your kids to be successful, happy, well balanced. How do you instill those values and aspirations in them while also allowing them to pursue their own paths?

Joe Bovell [00:19:39]: Actions speak louder than words, and I think you need to demonstrate that consistently that you have those values as a person, that you can work and have all these other interests, but you can still dedicate time to your family and be there for when you need them. But balancing that against, and which I touched on earlier, I think that's been the challenge for me. You go, jeez. I'd love it if you guys turned out this way, but the reality is you can maybe try and influence it a little bit, but they're gonna form their own values and opinions and style. So I think the only really way you do that is the little building blocks you put on since they were born and that this is the way we do things around here. So people talk about workplace culture, and there's a home culture as well, where you say, well, this is how we do things, and this is what we stand for, and and hope that the kids can and that's not always right. So that's this is where the challenge comes now that you might believe it's the right way to do something, but maybe it's not. And they have influences outside the household now that, are quite strong.

Joe Bovell [00:20:37]: The school system is I I think, they dedicate a lot of time now to the values and how they wanna be as people when they get to the end of the school journey. So that's certainly that and then their peer group. So I think you can lay the foundation stones and hope that that is the platform that they need, and then they'll top up and put their own icing on the cake.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:56]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve be, Chris. In one word, what is fatherhood?

Joe Bovell [00:21:03]: Satisfying. When was

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:09]: the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Joe Bovell [00:21:13]: When I saw her become really independent, form strong opinions on a particular issue, and be eloquent in that, and be cognizant of the audience that she was around. And you think, okay, yeah, she's turning into a remarkable woman.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:29]: Now if I was to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad?

Joe Bovell [00:21:33]: Probably a pain in the ass, I'd suggest, to be honest. I'm pretty motivated and driven, and I struggle with the concept that they might still be in bed at 11 o'clock in the morning. So but I would hope that they would see that I'm committed and motivated and always try and do the right thing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:48]: Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Joe Bovell [00:21:50]: My kids do. Because we've touched on a journey. You know that there was no manual when we got the child, and it's an interesting journey because we did the prenatal classes, and there's all this attention on the child on the birth. But you know what? There was no education when you got the baby home. So we got home and said, jeez, what do we do now? So that was a real wake up call. So there's no manual. You're learning on the job, and you know you never nail it. So the inspiration is to keep getting better at what you do along their journey.

Joe Bovell [00:22:20]: And the challenge also is that is evolving as they grow into adults. So they're the 2 people who shaped me the most.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:27]: Now you've shared a lot about your own journey. You've shared some of the highs, the lows, you've shared thoughts and perspectives and and some ideas as well. As we're finishing up today, what's one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Joe Bovell [00:22:40]: I think make the most of every moment. It is incredibly fast that journey from birth to your child being 18. People talk about it, but when you live it, not a day goes past when I don't remember their birth and what that was at that time and the impact it had on us and me individually. And I cannot believe how fast that journey goes. And my advice would be take the time to go to the school assembly, to have the moments with them alone in a park, and go for those walks and have those conversation, to know that it might be the last time you ever get that chance to spend with them. I'm not trying to sound morbid, but you'll never get that time back. And those cutest things when they're at their, school assemblies and they're doing their plays and they're cast as a tree and you've helped paint their costume and that goes so quickly. And then you you're dealing with a 16 year old daughter who's more interested in the friends and and Ariana Grande and all these other influences that those conversations and moments with dad, they will never be the same.

Joe Bovell [00:23:40]: They won't probably be as much as what you had when they were much younger. So cherish every moment that you can because, a, go so quickly, and, b, as they grow into adults, they generally wanna spend less time with you. So make the most of the time that you have because it is gold. That's my advice.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:57]: Well, Joey, just wanna say thank you for sharing your journey today. If people wanna find out more about you, is there a good place for them to go?

Joe Bovell [00:24:04]: I'm I'm not a social media king, but I'm sure you can probably find me online. LinkedIn's probably a a good option for me or Facebook. I'd love to hear from people all around the world. That'd be fantastic. And that was my reasoning for doing this was it was slightly cathartic because I did get down in some deep dark places in my chapters. But it's about can I if I can help one person or give just the smallest piece of advice that helps someone, one dad, then my job is done, and I'm really happy with that?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:32]: And we've mentioned the book already, but Sarah McConachie has a book that has a number of dads in it. You've heard from a number of the dads already. And Joe is one of the authors from that book, And I encourage you to go and check it out. You can go to workhardparenthard.com.au to find out more and be able to get some more information on the book and read more about Joe's story, as well as many other dad stories that are working to be the best dads that they can be, but also to provide a gender equitable home that allow for that equal role of parents and the work within the home. And that's an important discussion to have and important things to read and to learn about. So, Joe, thank you so much again for being here, and I wish you all the best. If you've enjoyed today's of the dads with daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:38]: We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly dads like you. So check it out atfatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week. All geared to helping you raise strong empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your AK. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast, calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and beat the world.

Choose them. Be the best dad you can be. You're the best dad you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on the Dads with Daughters Podcast, we welcome Doug Veal, a devoted father and past Police Detective. In this episode we dive deep into learning more about Doug's journey and what he had to do to be the dad that he knew that he wanted to be.

The Pivot to Parenthood

When Doug Veal discovered he would become a father, the ensuing excitement was matched by an awareness of his wife's heart condition. The joy of fatherhood came with a responsibility to pivot his focus from being a police officer to providing for his family during their medical journey. Veal's decision to take parental leave, an unusual step in law enforcement culture, underscored the emerging shift in parental roles and the importance of being present during critical family moments. Taking leave amid the challenges of a demanding career, Veal showed that fatherhood demanded flexibility, courage, and an unabashed willingness to break from tradition.

Shaping a Legacy

Doug Veal's discernment in prioritizing family well-being over career progression serves as a testament to the evolving nature of fatherhood. Inspired by his belief in being a balanced role model and the potential of his children's future, Veal's journey from the force to becoming a stay-at-home dad exemplifies the sacrifice and adaptability required in modern parenting. He advises fathers to be patient and considerate in their interactions with challenges, knowing that these qualities shape their legacy far beyond tangible achievements.

The Power of Community and Support

Acknowledging the pressures and complexities associated with his transition, Veal harnessed the support of employee assistance programs and peer support groups to navigate stressful periods. His experiences highlight the crucial role of community in providing different perspectives and shared experiences. Belonging to a network of fathers allows for a collective wisdom that individual experience alone cannot replicate, providing grounding and solidarity in the adventure of fatherhood.

Maximizing Family

Time In today's world where work encroaches on personal life, Veal emphasizes the importance of boundary setting. Whether it's outdoor adventures or being present from morning till school time, he urges fathers to maximize quality interactions with their children. Veal's proactive approach to fatherhood—choosing meaningful experiences over work commitments—serves as a powerful reminder to dads about the essence of being present and cherishing fleeting moments.

Reflecting on Being a Dad

In the 'fatherhood 5' segment, Veal refers to fatherhood as an adventure while sharing fond memories like his son's merit for respect. His vision for the future is to be seen as fun, involved, and particularly, available. This segment cements the notion that fatherhood is an evolving journey marked by pivotal moments that shape not only the life of the child but also the personal growth of the father.

You can learn more about Doug's journey as a father in the new book by Sarah Maconachie, Working Dads and Balancing Acts.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to sit down with you, to walk with you on this journey that you're on. And to be honest, you and I are on this same journey together because I've got 2 daughters, you've got daughters, and it's always important to be able to learn from each other and be willing to learn from each other, but also to learn from others to help us to be the dads that we wanna be. And we do that every week by having some great conversations to delve deeper into what it means to be a dad, but also we get to learn from other dads in the journeys that they've been on to be able to help them to be the dads that they've become. And this week we've got another great guest on the show. You might remember that we had a one of our past guests, Sarah McConachie, was on the show just recently talking about her new book that is out called Work Hard, Parent Hard. And she's got books for dads and moms.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:23]: And we talked about her book for dads. And from talking to her, I got an opportunity to be able to get connected with some of the dads that she connected with in her book. And today we've got one of those dads with us. Doug Veal is with us, and he's a father of 2 sons. And he's going to talk a little bit about some of his own journey, not only with his 2 sons, some of the journey that he went on to go from working. And I'm not going to share too much yet because we're going to be talking about what he did, but working in the police force to becoming a stay at home dad and working with his dad, taking advantage of time to be there for his kids and and really delving a little bit deeper on that. So I'm really excited to have him on. Doug, thanks so much for being here today.

Doug Veal [00:02:06]: Yeah. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:08]: I'm excited to have you here as well. And first and foremost, I love being able to turn the clock back in time. So I wanna go back a couple of years, and I wanna turn the clock back to that first moment that you found out that you were going to be a father. What was going through your head?

Doug Veal [00:02:24]: I've always wanted to be a dad. I was really, really keen, but I wanted to make sure that we were set up in the best position we could be. And that said, we weren't really planning to have kids as early as we did, and I think it was about 6 months after we got married, to be honest. And it was, yeah, just absolute excitement, and then just that moment of going, oh, okay. Now the things are getting serious. Now we need to plan. So it's a pivotal moment, and it was a case of, alright. How do we well, what do we go from here? So I knew that the impact that it was gonna have on my wife and I was gonna be slightly more complicated than just, that overwhelming joy and excitement because my wife had a heart condition, so we needed to look at how that was gonna impact her health and, what that would mean.

Doug Veal [00:03:12]: I think it's the common thing would be, yeah, we had a lot of excitement and a lot of nervousness to go, okay, what happens next? And how do we bring that into our lives?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:20]: Now you just brought up, one of the things that I I know that you dealt with very early on and not only through the pregnancy, but into the birth of your first child, which was that your wife did have some health challenges. She had a heart condition and had to have some significant heart surgery after the birth of your first child. So as a part of that, I know that you had to do some pivoting. You had been working as a police officer for many years, doing work with your government as well. Just very involved in the work that you had done in your career. Talk to me about first and foremost, so at the birth of your child and the health issues of your wife, I know that you had to take a more supportive role during your wife's health challenges. And how did that impact your approach to parenting and work life balance?

Doug Veal [00:04:10]: On the lead up, so when Edison was born, he's my my first son. And when he was born, I knew that I'll be taking the time off. I knew that my work was especially replacing the benefits that I had access to allowed me to take that time off, and I took 3 months off. There were some interesting conversations with some detective senior sergeants. At the time, I was working as a detective investigator doing money laundering investigations at state crime level and then moved into corruption invest in a corruption task force. And the discussions initially to take that time off were quite challenging. I was talking to a quite seasoned and, I'd say, old school detective who hadn't really understood the support mechanisms that we like to try and enjoy at the moment. And I'm I'm really glad that we do have access to things such as parental leave.

Doug Veal [00:05:02]: And I'm really glad that we've got access to things like parental leave, and we've got those supports and that the decision making for those to access that leave isn't to your immediate supervisor or to your district. It goes beyond that. It's on a more of a government level because being under that umbrella of a government employee. I think it was access or the pivot. So when Edison came along, I was going to be playing a a large role. I took took that time. It was time that I knew that I would like, but it was also time knowing that my wife had a caesarean section. There was some further support that was needed.

Doug Veal [00:05:41]: So I really cherish that the month after Edison was born, being able to offer that support to be able to get that really good contact and to get to know my son and actually will rewind a little bit immediately after he was born. Well, the birth itself was quite an interesting birth. I think we had 27 people in the room for a cesarean section, which was quite a dramatic affair. So we had the normal surgery team. We had NICU people because Edison was slightly premature because there was some complications, and then we had a full cardio surgery team on standby to have given a 30% chance that my wife would have a cardiac event immediately following the delivery. So Edison was born, cried, and it was the best thing I'd ever heard, followed by the most scared I've ever been because now came the danger period. So after delivery, Edison went to the NICU and my wife, Nicola, went to the ICU. And I was in an interesting position I hadn't really planned for because do I walk one way or do I go the other way? Do I go to where my wife was or do I go to where my new child was? And I'm not gonna say we're trying no.

Doug Veal [00:06:55]: I went I went, to where my son was and making sure that I could jog between the 2 because they were all housed in the same hospital. So that really cemented to me that I needed to take that time to make sure that us as a family unit, we're gonna be having the healing that we needed to be able to get through the next stages. So after 3 months, I did go back to work. And then knowing that after a few months, Nicola would need to have that heart surgery. So I ended up having open heart surgery. Again, that put me in a position of having an extended period of leave. And then almost it was 6 months to the day after the heart surgery, we fell pregnant with our second son, Terrence. That's quite funny.

Doug Veal [00:07:38]: I can pinpoint the exact moment. One of them we found out and second of when the dirty deed happened because I was in between army training blocks, and I only came home for a weekend, which is quite an interesting little time peg, to be honest. But it's been quite the journey on the health front and the children front. But as far as making the decision or my decision to to leave placing, there was a few things that had occurred throughout the first pregnancy that I was slightly uncomfortable with as far as decision making and my ability to be able to invest what I normally do, which would be about 60 to 80 hour week because there's exactly what we're doing now. Part of the investigations were overseas. It was a case of you can't let off on the tempo when you're fully involved in an investigation. I wasn't in a position that I wanted to continue doing that. It was a choice that I made to take a step back.

Doug Veal [00:08:36]: It's not something that I could've continued down that path in my current career choice. So I'm just saying I'd have to take my foot off the gas on the detective front. My transition to back to uniform. I was promoted after my leave, which was quite good. It was saying that was quite important to me knowing that I could access those entitlements and then that not having a lasting impact on my career after being warned by my detective senior sergeant that it would have an impact. It was quite good that it wasn't the case. However, a 3 panel roster is unforgiving for anyone else out in the law enforcement community and just shift work generally. Knowing that I did have weeks when my boys were quite young not seeing them, because we would have a, you know, starting a shift at 4 PM and then coming home at 2 o'clock to sleep until 10.

Doug Veal [00:09:28]: It's not really a family friendly roster. So there was too much impetus on my career at the time, and that needed to change.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:36]: I appreciate you sharing that. Now, one of the things you just talked about was the fact that, you know, as a police officer, there's a culture, there's a expectation in regards to the work that you're required to do and probably some old school mentality versus new school mentality as it comes to thinking about parenting and being present in your kids' lives. You've mentioned the fact that you took some extended parental leave as you were a police officer, and that might not have been the norm at the time in regards to what you were doing. What motivated you to prioritize family time and to set your career on the back seat for yourself as you were focusing and putting the effort on your family versus the career at the time?

Doug Veal [00:10:28]: Yeah. And I think this gets to the heart of the issue of of that balance. I've always had quite strong role models. So I looked at how my father was and the parts that I wanted to emulate and then the parts that I didn't wanna emulate, knowing that he's human like everyone. There's there's part, and he was a different situation. But looking at how I could shape my situation and knowing I had access to those lives, but also knowing that I get to shape the reality for my children. Parents have such a large influence about especially early on in what you can expose your kids to, how you can show value, how you can demonstrate those or model behaviors. That you know that your 2 year old, your 3 year old, your 5 year old's gonna emulate.

Doug Veal [00:11:14]: So really wanting to set that strong role model and give them a balanced perspective. It's not about just being a champion or being an ideal or just a figure. So I look at who I've looked up to and which leaders and things that I've gone, oh, I wanna be like that person, and then started to really look down and go, well, I like them for 1 attribute or 2 attributes or a behavior, not across a set of behaviors. So I really knew that I needed to balance out and not just be one one figure. So and I think a turning point came to me, and it was an interesting one. I think it hit quite hard. So I got my army photos, and I've got my policing photos, and some parts where I've been at training, and some parts where I've done some other tactical training. And boys being boys, fascinated with guns.

Doug Veal [00:12:08]: And then I had my 3 year old come up to me and ask me, basically, oh, so you're a policeman. You shoot people. And I was like, oh, this is a very difficult conversation, knowing that it's a touchy subject. And I'm not gonna go too much into that subject in this podcast. However, it was something that made me reflect and go, I need to really broaden the exposure or or how I present and to set that example for my children.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:35]: Now I know that in what you wrote in Sarah's book, you talked about the importance for you to access support through that journey for yourself being away from work, but also being present at home. Can you talk to me about the support services that you did take advantage of? I know you talked in your writing about employment assistant programs. How did seeking professional help contribute to your well-being during those stressful times that you were having, whether it be at work or at home?

Doug Veal [00:13:09]: I've used the employee assistance program a number of times, and when I was able to engage it during the stress that we felt over the, pregnancy and through early childhood, it was a a huge benefit. It's like that I was able to go with Nicola and talk through some of the issues and talk through some of the difficulties that we're facing and trying to really put it in perspective. So looking at larger health concerns, we had a period where we bounced from crisis to crisis and where we actually struggled wasn't in the crisis times. It was in the periods of slightly less crisis because the priorities weren't quite as clear, yet there was still an enormous amount of things to be done. So accessing that support was really helpful in setting those priorities, talking through some things, and then getting beyond the immediate with some of the future planning. Another really good support that we've got, and I'm not sure if it's as prevalent in the US as it is in Australia. We've got dads groups, which are normally a Facebook group and you meet up at a park and it really grounds the fatherhood experience. You look at it and you go, oh, and it takes the edge off of what, yeah, the larger issues because you find out that there's 15, 20 different ways to deal with the same thing.

Doug Veal [00:14:28]: For an example, Edison had clubfoot when he was born, and that was such an interesting experience, especially when I was I was taking that time off from work. I'll be taking Edison around the shops, And I'll get people stuff and go, oh, such a good dad and things of that nature. And he was on in a cast and things at that time, which was an interesting experience. And then I'll go out with my wife, and we'll get it just wasn't the same experience for her. It was always questions about how he broke his leg. And it's like, he hasn't broken his leg. So it was concerns about parenting so much more with my wife. And when I was out there, it was a conversation piece.

Doug Veal [00:15:09]: So there was nothing but praise, which I found quite odd. Not saying take advantage and have some interesting conversations and enjoy it, but there was a big difference in the way that even saying it as small as going to the shops, the impact that that had. So talking through parts of that. And also I ended up joining a mother's group because I was the primary carer when Edison came. And I was sharing some experiences because my family had fostered for a large period of time. So I've always had kids in the house and quite young kids, which set me up a little bit, quite well for dealing with my kids. However, it's a completely different experience. I think we ended up in the mid nineties as far as the children that came for short stay through our house.

Doug Veal [00:15:56]: So we had a range of different children with different backgrounds and experiences that we've worked through. So, yeah, quite interest. So back to the mother's group. So we were talking and we're sharing some experiences, and I could see that there were some people in the group that were getting quite fatigued and their resilience was quite down. And that was one of the huge benefits that we had with both of us being off work at the time or both of us being able to take some time off is that we could really get into some shift work and that wasn't a stranger for me. So I didn't mind doing some night shifts every so often. So going through the mother's grief and just trying to bring a bit of a calming influence of, yes, it will pass. There's a limited amount of things that the baby's going to be crying for and trying to bring something that I understand to be really quite an emotional experience down to, okay, hungry, wind, wet nappy.

Doug Veal [00:16:49]: Like there's normally a finite amount of things that can be checked and monitored so we can, yeah, hopefully stop the crying for a bit and give you that 4 hour window of a little bit of sleep. It all changes after the second one, which I'm sure that your listeners are aware. Sleep when the baby sleeps is really good advice until you got 2, and then it's when it's just a challenge.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:11]: Yeah. Especially in those early years, you definitely go through that zombie period where you don't know what ends up and you're going on so little sleep. And and when I talk to people that are like, oh, my kids slept all the time. And I'm like, oh, I wish that I would had been the case. Because that's not always the case.

Doug Veal [00:17:27]: No. No. It's not. And, yeah, some people, they need to know it's normal and it does end. It does end. But, yes, I remember there was a period, I think it was about the 4 month mark with Terrence, my second son. Well, I didn't want to go to bed. I knew that as soon as I go to bed, it's just going to be interrupted.

Doug Veal [00:17:45]: I'd rather push through. And it was really challenging for about a month or 2 months. That period of sleep progression that was unfortunately teed up with, I think, with potty training with Edison. So there was just a lot of things going on, a lot of washing and not much sleep.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:01]: Now I know one of the things that you and especially regarding family time. For you, how do you ensure that your work commitments don't encroach upon those boundaries?

Doug Veal [00:18:20]: Well, I'm lucky enough at the moment. So I'm currently an assistant director working for a federal agency. So most of the people who I supervise so the eastern states shut down. They're 3 hours ahead. So I've got a great flexibility in how I set my work schedule up, which is really quite handy. But with my boundaries, I really look to how I can maximize my interaction time with with my kids. So after work is kids' time. So you'll rarely find me on the phone after 5 o'clock my time.

Doug Veal [00:18:53]: If the sun's out, we're going to the park. If it's good weather, we're outside. If it's not great weather, we've got a I don't know how many of your listeners are gonna be Bluey fans, but we've got that big green shed hammer barn, which is called Bunnings. They've actually got a playground in them. So we'll go to Bunnings for a bit. So school time, family time. Weekends, it's gonna be fishing, camping, going on adventures, taking the 4 wheel drive out. And I don't expect sleep ins, to be quite brutally honest.

Doug Veal [00:19:23]: So it's a thing of the past. I was half when I wrote my chapter, I was happy with 1 every week, but like I'm just gonna say, if I'm not watching the sunrise or if I'm in bed after 6, then there's probably something wrong. No. It's good. I've got 2 young boys who are eager to start the day, and I'm eager to start it with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:42]: That's amazing. Now I know that one of the things that you wrote about too, and some of this goes back down to what you said earlier that you were working 60 to 80 hours a week. Your job was taking you to many different places. But I know travel also seemed to be a recurring theme in your life. How would you say that your global experiences influence your parenting approach and your child's upbringing?

Doug Veal [00:20:08]: I've really enjoyed traveling. I've been lucky enough to get out and about. I've done 6 out of the 7 continents for a month or more. COVID kind of put a really quite a big dampener on international travel. So when the restrictions ended, I jumped at the opportunity to take my boys and go to London to visit their uncle or my brother. So we went off to London. So there's a direct flight from Perth to London. It's a 17 hour flight, and I think I'm just gonna rename that the challenge.

Doug Veal [00:20:43]: I think it was the better of 2 evils to be quite fair. I don't think a 8 hour flight and then a stopover and then another 10 hour flight or 12 hour flight would have really been any easier. But I'm set on giving my kids a series of experiences that's gonna round them out quite well. There's 7,000,000,000 people in the world. No one's got it completely right. We can learn by, well, one, getting out into our neighborhood, but then going beyond our neighborhood and looking for those different experiences and meeting different people. Yeah. London was a really interesting experience.

Doug Veal [00:21:16]: They're not set up for Australian sized prams over in the UK. So, yeah, the footpaths aren't pram friendly. So my wife joined me for the first couple of weeks and then took a nice relaxing flight home. I soloed outed over in, yeah, a very, very busy city for a few weeks after that and tried to really give them the experience. I think it was more for me. I'm satisfied that it's more for me going to museums and galleries, but some really good photos. And even when they've had enough, I'll take a photo. I've got a really, really good one of Terrence in front of Van Gogh's Sunflowers where he's decided that he doesn't wanna play anymore at the National Gallery in London.

Doug Veal [00:22:00]: And, yeah, it takes a while to get out of those places. And especially when the the more quiet it is, I don't know, they seem to hide the exits. We did the same in the National Library trying to get our escape route. But then slowly after we got some good experiences, we hit the parks. We hit the parks pretty hard. The boys love slides. So, yeah, from everywhere, from Axbridge to London Bridge, I think we've done every single one of those packs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:26]: Very fun. Now, I guess, as we finish up today, what advice would you give to fathers who are similarly navigating the complexities of career advancement while at the same time trying to strive to be that actively engaged dad that they wanna be.

Doug Veal [00:22:46]: Well, I know that I'm no expert have what you would like to do and the impact that that's gonna have. You get one run at it, so I would choose the things that last. So and that's one of the reasons that I've, in my balance, I'm probably tilted slightly more to the family side. I love my career. I'm quite particular in the steps that I take. However, I know that I'm a dad first, and that's really quite a large change. Having always been a police officer. I've been that for over a decade, having that as a large personality, trait to making that shift, especially when my kids came along.

Doug Veal [00:23:32]: Life's full of choices. Some have much larger impacts and impacts that you're not aware of. And that's forefront in my mind when I'm looking at how I'm raising kids. But it's one of those thing that it's a privilege. It's at times overwhelming, but it's an adventure. So there's gonna be some great bits, some funny bits, some sad bits, scary bits, but some brilliant moments. So lean into it and enjoy the ride.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:02]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready? Yep. In one word, what is fatherhood?

Doug Veal [00:24:11]: Adventure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:12]: When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father?

Doug Veal [00:24:16]: That would have been about oh, it was last week. Edison fur oh, so he's going to school, 1st year in school, and he got a merit certificate in the 1st assembly for respect. So I was, yeah, a real proud dad moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:33]: Now I know your kids are young right now, but if I was to talk to them, how would they describe you as a dad?

Doug Veal [00:24:40]: Depends on what we were doing immediately before. I think Edison would describe me as fun, and he would describe me as always wanting to give it a go. There's not too many projects that we haven't tried. We definitely take on some projects and give it a red hot crack. So, yeah, I'm gonna stick with give it a go.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:01]: And as you think 10 years down the road, what do you want them to say then?

Doug Veal [00:25:05]: Available. If it was one word, they'd be available. Looked at different ways and behaviors that I'm gonna try or that I've brought in and values that I have about getting involved in community and service, and that's not military service. It's community service. So one of the ways I'm doing it at the moment is as a volunteer firefighter. Yeah. I find that I want to be able to impart those things. However, the one thing that I would like to resonate with them is availability.

Doug Veal [00:25:34]: If they need me, I'm gonna be there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:37]: Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Doug Veal [00:25:38]: The cliche is my dad. So to a large part, it's that, but they do. So it's the dichotomy. It's they do because they are an absolute ball of potential, and their future future is not written. And it's my job to be able to assist, shape that. I can't control it. I can't do it all, But I'm gonna give it a really red hot crack in making sure that we get the best results we can.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:05]: And as we and finally, what's one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Doug Veal [00:26:11]: Patient. You shouldn't be able to be wound up by your 3 year old or 5 year old or probably even your 10 year old. You're gonna get wound up by your 16 year old, but but I think that's a slightly different different area. But, yeah, patience. The problem isn't the problem. It's how we interact with the problem.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:29]: Well, Doug, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today. If people wanna read more about you in Sarah's book or find more about you, where should they go?

Doug Veal [00:26:40]: Yeah. So I can go to workhardparenthard.com.au. You can find the books there. We've touched on some really cool things in this, but there's a fair few more things that we can you can read about. And there's, yeah, tons more people adding their experience to it. So, yeah, it's it's quite an exciting venture.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:59]: Well, Doug, thank you for being here, and I appreciate you sharing your journey, and I wish you all the best.

Doug Veal [00:27:06]: Excellent. Thank you very much.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:07]: If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:05]: We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast, the time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and beat the world to them. Dad you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Fatherhood and Active Participation

In this week's Dads with Daughters podcast we got to speak with Sarah Maconachie, a mindset coach and author, the focus was on the importance of active fatherhood in raising empowered daughters. In our conversation, Sarah emphasized the need for dads to be actively involved in their daughters' lives and the significance of being present, supportive, and open in their journey towards raising independent and strong women. Sarah shared her experiences and insights from her own upbringing and her work in advocating for equal parenting roles. Her perspectives shed light on the transformative power of involved fatherhood and the impact it can have on daughters' development.

Challenging Stereotypes and Biases

Sarah Maconachie's experiences and the stories she shared in her book, "Working Dads and Balancing Acts," challenge traditional stereotypes and biases related to parenting roles. Her emphasis on breaking norms that confine fathers to being solely providers and not nurturing caregivers is a powerful message for dads and their involvement in their daughters' lives. It serves as a reminder that stereotypes and gender biases should not dictate the roles that fathers play in their children's lives.

The Impact of an Involved Father

One of the key takeaways from Sarah's insights is the immense impact of an involved father in a child's life. She highlighted the emotional support, presence, and active participation of her own father, emphasizing how it shaped her and her sisters, propelling them toward successful and fulfilling lives. This perspective underscores the pivotal role fathers play in instilling confidence, self-esteem, and strength in their daughters. It also reflects the idea that fatherhood goes beyond providing financial stability and encompasses emotional, mental, and social support crucial for their daughters' growth.

Encouraging Open Communication

Sarah's recollections of her father being a pillar of support during emotional upheavals and difficult phases is a testament to the significance of open communication within the parent-child relationship. Her father's approachability and willingness to engage with his daughters on a personal level created a secure environment for them to express their emotions and seek guidance. This highlights the importance of open dialogues and nurturing an environment where daughters feel comfortable confiding in their fathers. It's an essential aspect of fatherhood that fosters trust and empowers daughters to overcome challenges and become resilient individuals.

Shifting the Paradigm

The insightful conversation between Dr. Christopher Lewis and Sarah Maconachie outlined the need to challenge the existing societal norms and inspire a shift in the paradigm of fatherhood. Sarah's determination to make a change in the space of working parents and advocating for equal parenting roles stands as a beacon for shifting the traditional perceptions of parenting. Her work and dedication are geared towards creating a world where fathers are equally recognized as nurturing caregivers, capable of fostering their daughters' dreams, ambitions, and well-being.

As you absorb Sarah's narrative, it becomes evident that empowering dads to be present, engaged, and supportive in their daughters' lives is a critical factor in building a generation of empowered women. Sarah's encouragement for dads to prioritize spending time with their children reinforces the idea that every moment invested in their daughters' lives profoundly impacts their growth and development.

In this episode I found that Sarah Maconachie's insights brought to light the necessity of active fatherhood in shaping strong, independent women. Her work not only encourages dads to be present, nurturing, and communicative but also challenges societal norms, promoting gender equality in parenting roles. The takeaways from the podcast serve as a compelling call to action for dads to actively engage in their daughters' lives, fostering an environment where girls can thrive and reach their full potential.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, I love being on this journey that you and I are both on to find ways to be able to be the best dads that we can be, to raise our daughters to be those strong, independent women that we want them to be. And I know, you know, it's not always easy. It there's not Oh, there's going to be bumps in the road. There's going to be times where you are going to hit your head up against the wall, and you're gonna say, oh, my gosh. There has to be a better way. And that's why this podcast is here is to give you resources, allow for you to meet other people, learn from other people, and gain some insights into the journey that they are on as parents, but also learn from them in regards to the journey that they're on in raising daughters or in finding other resources that are out there that can help you to do just that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:20]: Every week, I love being able to bring you different guests, different people that have different things that they can share with you. Sometimes it's mom, sometimes it's dads. You know, there's people from across lots of different spectrums. And I am so happy that you come back every week and take a listen in to learn to be a little vulnerable and be willing to open yourself up to learning as well. This week, we've got another great guest with us. Sarah McConachie is with us today. And Sarah is a mindset coach for parents. She is an author.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:55]: She has a brand new book that we're gonna be talking about called Working Dads and Balancing Acts. And don't all of us sometimes feel like we're balancing stuff and trying to work day to day and and trying to balance this thing called fatherhood. And when I saw that she had written this book, I definitely wanted to have her on to be able to talk not only about the book, but about her own journey in being a mother to a daughter as well and to kids to be able to bring that perspective in as well. Sarah, thanks so much for joining us today.

Sarah Maconachie [00:02:27]: Hi. And thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be on here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:31]: I'm really excited to have you on as well. You know, one of the things that I would love to do before we even jump into the concept of this book that you wrote. So you are a mother of 2 girls and you're a female yourself. I know what it's like to raise daughters myself and what it was like as a father. But for you jumping in to being a mother of daughter, what was going through your head? And I know your oldest is a daughter, so that was your first. Talk to me about that journey for you. And what did you have to do to either prepare yourself to be a mother to a daughter, or what were the surprises that came with it that you didn't expect?

Sarah Maconachie [00:03:06]: That's a really good question. I was very excited to have a daughter. I'm one of 3 girls and I had a great upbringing and I love my sisters. And so I was excited to have a girl because I was excited to potentially have what I had when I was growing up. And I think as a female as well, I'm a very determined lady, as are my sisters. All 3 of us have really done very well in life. We've got really good careers, and I'm a bit of a feminist from that perspective. I love gender equality, and I was quite excited to raise a strong, powerful girl.

Sarah Maconachie [00:03:44]: I have to say that really excited me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:47]: So talk to me a little bit about your own father. And you said you had a great upbringing. And you and your sisters definitely were given some things to help you to spread your wings, to be able to become the people that you are today. What did your father do specifically that you feel helped to pave the way for you to become the person that you are today?

Sarah Maconachie [00:04:09]: The biggest thing, he was present. He was very present. He absolutely adores us all. He absolutely adores his 3 girls. He's a very blokey bloke. My dad. He's a sportsman. He played rugby, golf, squash.

Sarah Maconachie [00:04:24]: You name it. He played it. So for him, I think he always wanted boys because the natural, you know, you want the sport, you want this and then the other. And he had 3 girls and it was probably the best thing for him. We all love something that he relates to, so he's got one that loves rugby, and he watches rugby with her. My other sister and I did lots of athletics and did lots of sport ourselves. So he got to do that with us. And the most important thing for him, though, was he was there.

Sarah Maconachie [00:04:52]: He was a teacher, so he was at home at dinner time. And my memories of growing up were of us altogether. My dad was very, very present and he was just as involved as my mum was. And he supported us a lot when we went through breakups, boyfriends, friends, this, that and the other. It was actually our dad that we went to because he's a very soft person in that respect, and he was really lovely and really approachable from those emotional rollercoasters that we went on. He was really good at dealing with it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:25]: So talk to me a little bit about you said that when those big emotional times came, you went to your father. And that's not always the case in every in every situation and every family dynamic. So what was it that your dad did to allow for you to feel that he was the person that you could go to when those things came up that opened that door for communication, for dialogue, for you to feel safe to go To him in those moments of need,

Sarah Maconachie [00:05:57]: just always, he would always bring it up with us. I mean, mom would know what was going on because moms know everything and she would obviously talk to my dad and then he would come to us and say, this is happening. He'd give us a big hug and he would just tell us that everything would be okay. And it's just a phase in our life and that we have to go through these things. And he was just really caring and really supportive. And he would come to us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:24]: Now from all of this work that your father did in helping you and your sisters to become who you are today, I'm sure that as you grew and flew out of the nest, you and I talked before this, you you've been a world traveler and you have really explored. So talk to me about you leave England, you go to the United States, you end up in Australia. What's the one piece of advice that he gave you that you hold on to today that you look back on and say that was so meaningful?

Sarah Maconachie [00:06:59]: The biggest thing was for me, and it's not actually that long ago, moving to Australia. Obviously my mom very upset because I was actually really close. Well, I still am. I've always been very, very close to my mum. I was always the mommy's girl and I'm the one that flew the nest. So she's always struggled with it, understandably. And they came to Australia when I had first met my husband, I think. And I think they could finally see that I was settled, and I've met a lovely man.

Sarah Maconachie [00:07:30]: And I think that was a big factor for them. And my dad just loved it here. He absolutely loved it. And I just remember having a chat with him over a few drinks where all the good conversations happen, and he said, I'm just so happy that you're happy. And as long as you're happy, it doesn't matter where you are or what you're doing. I just can see the happiness in you. And for me, that's all I need. And that's always stuck with me because it's true and that's what I would want for my children.

Sarah Maconachie [00:07:58]: You just want them to be happy. And although it sacrifices my parents' happiness with me being this far away to a degree, I think that, you know, my dad's able to really remove himself to a degree and be like, I just want you to be happy. And that's all that matters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:14]: Now earlier today, you talked about that you see yourself as a feminist. You're raising daughters now. Talk to me about what did your dad do to support that feminism that you have within yourself? But also, what are you doing to now encourage your own kids? And they're young, and maybe you're not doing that much yet. But what do you hope to do as they get older to inspire that same sense of feminism in them as they get older?

Sarah Maconachie [00:08:42]: Look, as I sort of outlined, both of my parents were always very supportive of whatever we wanted to do. I mean, I'm a big dreamer and my mum and dad will often roll their eyes at me and be like, here we go again. But I always achieve what I've say, what I've said I'm going to go out and do. So now the eye rolling has gone down a little bit. But with all 3 of us, they were just supportive of our hopes and dreams. They, you know, encouraged us to go to university. They encouraged us to do what we wanted to do. That was gonna whatever was gonna make us happy.

Sarah Maconachie [00:09:13]: They encouraged us to do it, And they gave us good boundaries to make sure we stayed on the straight and narrow. And they both just really raised us to follow our dreams and to do what it was that we wanted to do to make us happy. I think that's the same for me. It's about being able to really express those personality traits that are hard in children, but actually are going to be magical when they're adults. And I notice this with my own daughter, My eldest in particular is very defiant. She really likes to think she rules the roost in this house. And to be honest, she probably does, But she also goes through the city and says, mom, when I grow up, I want to work at the on the top floor of the biggest building. And I'm like, you know what, girl, you go for it.

Sarah Maconachie [00:10:00]: And she's very determined. She's going to win her kindy carnival. She is only getting A's. She asked me recently, what happens when you get an f? I don't even know where she's got this from. And I was like, well, you know, it doesn't matter. And she was like, it won't matter anyway, mom, because I'll only get As. She's 4. The determination of this child is just outrageous.

Sarah Maconachie [00:10:21]: But, you know, instead of trying to squash that, I try and manage her expectations. But I also am like, you know what? If you've got the determination to go out and get it, then go and get it. I'm not gonna squash that because it's a really great trait to have.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:36]: Now I mentioned the fact that you have a new book that's out called Working Dads and Balancing Acts, and you have another book that called Working Mothers Inspiring Others, but specifically about this book about fathers. And I guess first and foremost, I I love to get the origin stories. As an author myself, I know how much time and effort and passion have to go into the creation of these books. And it takes a lot of time and effort and planning and passion to be able to get to that finish line so that you can get that out into the world. What was it about this topic that really inspired you to want to write this and get this out into the world?

Sarah Maconachie [00:11:23]: I need to try not to ramble on for too long when I answer this because it comes from a big piece. So the way that I was raised, as I said, I was raised in a very equal house. And I think that even for my generation, that's quite rare. I remember having a conversation with my sister. I started blogging and writing a lot around working parents, but I wrote a lot about dads as well as moms because I just think that there's so much out there for mothers, but there's just not enough for dads. And there's there's not really a voice for dads, I felt, that really depicted the change in society and the way that things are changing. So I was having this conversation with my sister and I was like, oh, it's really funny that all 3 of hers are in very equal relationships. Our husbands are very involved with our children.

Sarah Maconachie [00:12:11]: It's very fiftyfifty in the way that we parent. And in studying mindset, it really does go back to that belief system and how you're raised and that programs, how you then raise your own children and the way that you sort of deliver your own life is very much to do with the environment that you are raising yourself. So all 3 of us have really replicated the way that we were raised, which is amazing. And so we were kind of talking about it and I was like, but it just seems so easy that we are so equal in our household, in our relationship. But I also feel like that's because we're such strong females. We communicate what it is that we need our husbands to do as husbands and as fathers. And that communication piece and that learning piece really has enabled us to foster those relationships and that equality for our own children as well. So it kind of evolved from that, and that way of thinking that I was thinking more and more about dad, particularly in the workplace.

Sarah Maconachie [00:13:18]: I'm very passionate about working as a mum and being able to create that balance. And I went through a process that I think a lot of mums do go through where I took a job that was really junior and about a quarter of what I'd previously been earning so that I could have flexibility to be able to look after my children as well as have a career. And as I went through a mindset journey myself and I really regained my own purpose, my own worth, and what it is that I needed for me, I realized how much that actually occurs, especially in women. But to solve the problem with that, there needs to be also work for dad. It needs to be a double edged sword. You can't just say, here you go, women are mothers in the workplace. Here's all the things for you, flexible working, whatever it is that you need. What are you also doing for dads for them to be able to take that load, which many dads actually want to do anyway, and to be able to really create that balance so that women can be doing that working and parenting, but so can dads.

Sarah Maconachie [00:14:28]: So it really stemmed from that view, and I just decided to write these books. It just came out of nowhere to be honest, and I was like, I just want stories from mums and dads of their journeys that will help to support and provide advice and guidance for other moms and dads out there that want to work and have that balance of being a parent as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:53]: Now I know in the book you talk to fathers and you talk to a number of different fathers. Talk to me about some of the biggest takeaways as you were talking to them that you incorporated into the book that you hope that people are going to be taking out of reading the book itself?

Sarah Maconachie [00:15:12]: Well, the chapters are directly from the dads themselves. So they have shared completely their own stories, which is amazing because it's different voices and it's completely their journeys, which I love. So there's a few things in there that are real takeaways for me. There's one who came who didn't have a father who came from a really difficult upbringing and his journey of trying to navigate fatherhood when he had no role model himself, is really incredible and really moving, but also he shares so much emotion around what he didn't share in terms of his own journey and how scared he was to become a dad because he just didn't know what that looked like and what that was as a role. So that was one real key aspects that I loved. Another one is a partner of a big law firm, and he shares a story which really, I had this conversation with him and it really sparked me wanting to write the dad's book. So he was telling me how his 2 boys he's a partner in a big law firm, so he would leave before the boys were up and was home after they went to bed in the week because he worked such long hours. And he was home for 2 consecutive days once and he was putting his boys, one of his younger boys, to bed, who was about 7 I believe at the at the time, and the boy was like what are you doing? Like why are you here? And he was like what do you mean? I'm your dad, I live here.

Sarah Maconachie [00:16:41]: And he was like yeah but you don't. Like I know that you come and sleep with mum some in the week, but, like, you don't live here. I thought you just came at weekends. And he was like he cried. He was like, he's dagger to his heart and it made him realize the effects that this was having on his children. And he literally changed that day and made sure he didn't leave until the boys had gone to school in the morning. He made a change that the very next day and he's never stepped back. So there's that and there's, and then there's the stories of those, of dads that wanting to stay at home and have let their wives really thrive in their careers.

Sarah Maconachie [00:17:23]: Like, there's such an eclectic mix of stories in there. It's it's just so inspiring to hear the different journeys and the challenges that different people face, but how they overcome it. And it's really, it's a reminder of how important it is to be present as a dad. There's a lot of older ish generation that didn't have paternity leave, that didn't take any paternity leave, and that look back and really regret that. So I think it's a really nice reminder that it's so important to be present because you do not get those years back. And that's really, for me, the crux of the of the book and the stories that are delivered is it's just so essential to be part of your children's lives and work and everything else comes second. So, you know, if you've got that choice, make it a good one.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:15]: So talk to me about, as you walked into the writing of this book, you talked to a lot of these fathers. Did you walk in with any preconceived notions that were shattered by what you heard and what was shared with you?

Sarah Maconachie [00:18:29]: Not really. I think the journeys and the chapters and stories that have been shared were really as I ice age of, oh, well, you know, my wife does everything and, you know, that's fine, each their own. But it's really still apparent today and there's still a lot of work to be done, I think, in order to shift those stereotypes and biases of what dads and what fatherhood looks like. So for me, the book lived up to everything that I wanted from it. It's really created the stories, the journeys, and the challenges that I really wanted to highlight because it also has the flip side of regret or whatever that falls with those aspects of not prioritizing your family. So it delivers the right message, but it really fulfilled exactly what I wanted from it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:28]: And as you end the writing of this specific book, are there other questions? Are there other things that came out at the end where you said, I need to delve into this more?

Sarah Maconachie [00:19:40]: Oh, yeah. Well, look, it's really spurred my passion even more. So I was working in the mindset space for the last few years, but it's made me so determined to make a change in the space of working parents. So I'm now focusing I've created a program for working parents across workplaces. So it's for dads and moms, and it's really enabling them to create a mindset that allows them to have more balance, have purpose, to create all those aspects that we do lose a little bit when we become a parent because we naturally prioritize our children. But prioritizing our children is a given, but we have to look after ourselves because we are the role models of our children. So the better versions that we are of ourselves, the better versions that our children are. So the book has really spurred me to make a difference, to be honest.

Sarah Maconachie [00:20:39]: So I am determined to get into every corporate organization that I can find for them to be implementing support for parents that are working, because I just think it's essential for the growth of our children and the next generation. We are raising the future of employees, so we need to be the best version of us so that we're raising what we want as the next generation. So it's made me very determined to make a change.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:09]: I know every country is a little bit different when it comes to looking at things like paternity leave and and allowing for equal access to that special time, especially when your children are first born. How are you having those conversations with businesses? And what do you say to fathers that are working in companies right now that are not supportive of that, of how they can advocate or try to start those conversations within their own companies.

Sarah Maconachie [00:21:39]: Well, actually one of the chapters in my book is from the CEO of Clough, which is a big mining organization. And his name is Peter Bennett. And so I worked for Clough after I had my first daughter and I left because it was like a clock watch. They it was like you had to be at your desk till 4:30 and I had this horrendous guilt and I just needed to leave because I wanted to pick her up and blah blah blah. So I ended up leaving. And I've had this conversation with Peter because he's actually since this was, I mean, 3 years ago or whatever, but since then, he's actually been one of the leaders for gender equity and for implementing all these changes for paternity leave in Clough. So within the last 2 years, not one man had taken paternity leave in that organization ever, which I just think is crazy. So now he's up there and now 50% of men have taken paternity leave within the last 2 years and are taking longer extended leave to spend time with their families and things like this.

Sarah Maconachie [00:22:47]: So there's actually an incredible uptake for this in WA in particular, and it's been really well driven. There's a organization, CEOs for Gender Equity, and they are driving all this change. And especially with regards to paternity leave and maternity leave and it just being leave. It doesn't matter whether you're the mum or the dad, all, benefits for employees are equalized and you take it as, as you please. So there's a lot of that going on in WA in particular, which is amazing, but there is still a long way to go with a lot of organisations as well. So my advice, if you were in that situation where you're in an organization that is not supporting it, I would go with evidence. I would go with the research that proves and shows how important it is for dads to be present within their children's lives, for them to bond with their children in those early days for the support that's needed for moms. Like, it's just crazy to me how some organizations don't offer that.

Sarah Maconachie [00:23:54]: I had a c section and twins. If my husband hadn't had 6 weeks off, I do not know what I would have done. I needed him home. It wasn't an option. I had to have him there. So it's really about being able to be realistic about this and just have those open and honest conversations. And you know what? There's lots of organizations that are doing it. So if your company won't do it, look for jobs elsewhere because they don't deserve to have you as an employee, in my opinion, if they are not supporting you from a parenting perspective.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:28]: Now you just mentioned the fact that people should look for the research that shows the importance of fathers and the engagement of fathers. If a dad that's listening is saying, I don't know where to start, where should they start? Where should they start to find that information to be able to get that information to use to start having those conversations?

Sarah Maconachie [00:24:49]: A lot of the fathering groups. So Fathering Together, the Fathering Project, which is across Australia, just Google it, and you'd be able to find a lot of research on their podcasts. There's so many resources out there for dads now. It's just about digging a little deep to make sure you get it. But fathering groups, for me, that's where I get a lot of my information from because they're just brilliant from that space and understanding what is happening in the market. It tends to be pretty well summarized, I always find. So fathering groups on LinkedIn or Facebook.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:24]: Sarai Patel Well, Sarah, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for the work that you're doing to be able to push fathers to think about things in a little bit different way. And if you've got one piece of advice that you wanna give to all dads, what would that advice be?

Sarah Maconachie [00:25:37]: Spend time with your children. You don't get that time back, and it's precious time for you and for your children. I think that sometimes we believe that our children are more resilient than what they are at times and the love of their parents is literally all they need. So make sure you spend time with your kids.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:00]: Now if people wanna find out more about your books and other things that you're doing, where's the best place for them to go?

Sarah Maconachie [00:26:06]: And you can find me on my website. It's usually a very good spot or on LinkedIn. So Sarah McConachie on LinkedIn or www.workhardparenthard.com.au is my website and all my programs and my books and all my blogs are on there as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:24]: Well, Sarah, it's been a pleasure having you here today for having you share your own journey as a mother, but also your journey in writing this book and getting this out into the world. And I wish you all the best.

Sarah Maconachie [00:26:34]: Thank you so much. Thanks so much for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:36]: The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:28]: We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast, the time goes by just like a dynamite blast, calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and beat the world to them. Be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:21]: You're the best dad you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

**Seizing Accidental Moments**

Fatherhood is an expedition without a clear map, each phase of our children's lives an uncharted territory waiting to be explored. On today's Dads with Daughters podcast we welcomed Gregg Behr to discuss wonder and parenting. Behr, the executive director of the Grable Foundation and a father of two, reflects on the journey that began with trepidation upon learning he was going to be a father to a daughter. Amid fears and dreams, he emphasized his role in ensuring his daughters have 'outrageous confidence' in themselves.

This emotional connection to fatherhood resonates with many dads, who similarly navigate gender biases and aspire to protect their daughters from the doubts the world may cast. But Behr offers a perspective shift: difficulties in parenting are universal. Yet, as a 'girl dad,' he feels a unique joy and asserts there's no hard part to being a father to daughters when the heart focuses on the small, joyous discoveries they bring into life.

**The Power of Intentionality**

Life's unpredictability can thrust accidental moments of connection to the forefront of our fatherly experiences, as Behr discovered during prolonged periods of single parenting. These unexpected times can surprisingly foster deep bonds and familiarize us with the nuanced layers of our children's personalities. Dr. Lewis reiterated the importance of embracing these accidental, seemingly mundane moments. These slices of daily life hold the potential for lasting significance in both the parent and child's heart.

**Infusing Wonder into Every Day**

Shifting gears, the episode delved into Behr's co-authored book 'When You Wonder, You're Learning,' inspired by none other than Fred Rogers of 'Mister Rogers' Neighborhood.' Embracing Rogers' vision, Behr shared insights into being a deliberate learner and listener, and the ways in which he integrated these values into fatherhood and philanthropy work. He emphasized the importance of wonder and curiosity, traits often lost as we transition into adulthood. Yet, in mirroring behaviors of joy and wonder for our children, we counter the inevitable dimming of creativity that life tends to impose.

**Beyond the Podcast: Living Lessons**

The dialogue on 'Dads with Daughters' extended beyond theory, as Behr recounted applying Fred Rogers' wisdom to difficult discussions with his daughters. Whether addressing complex questions about safety and race or fostering daily habits rooted in amazement, Behr embraced the opportunity to wonder and wander through life's maze with his daughters by his side.

Dr. Lewis and Behr's exchange serves as a potent reminder: fatherhood, while fraught with challenges, is a terrain ripe with accidental marvels and intentional teachings. The episode epitomizes the podcast's mission to aid dads in nurturing strong, independent women and the reciprocal growth that fatherhood engenders.

As we pull away from the microphone and the echoes of Behr's stories and insights fade, we are left with the enduring notion that to be a dad with daughters is to be an architect of wonder, festooning the foundation of fatherhood with loving, intentional moments crafted from the everyday tapestry of life. 'Dads with Daughters' offers a community where such architectural feats are not only recognized but celebrated, as we all strive to be the best dads we can be, helping our daughters ascend into their own era of wonder.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to dads with daughters where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, we come every week and we have great conversations and I love being able to walk beside you as you are figuring this thing out called fatherhood. Every day is a journey, and every phase of life that your kids are in is a journey. And I'm just glad to be able to have these conversations and be able to be a part of it with you. Fatherhood can feel alone at times, but it doesn't have to be. And it is so important to be able to connect with other dads, to be able to create community, to be able to learn and be open to learn about things that may help you to be a better dad. And that's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests, people that have gone before you that are doing this alongside you as well, that have their own daughters and are learning along the way to be able to help you, to be able to give you some perspective, some insights, some things that might help you as you move forward in your own fatherhood journey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:28]: This week, we've got another great guest with us. Greg Baer is with us. And Greg is the executive director of the Grable Foundation, but he's also a father of 2 daughters. And we're gonna be talking about his own journey as a father, but we're also gonna be talking about the a journey that he had in not only writing a book, but really bringing a new perspective into his own fatherhood journey, which was that looking at the concept of wonder. And we're gonna talk about that. So we'll get to that in just a few moments. But the first and foremost, I am just really excited to have Greg here. Greg, thanks so much for being here today.

Gregg Behr [00:02:05]: Chris, I am absolutely honored to be here, and I love how you described figuring it out because I feel like I'm gonna be figuring out fatherhood right in front of you right now. I

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:15]: think you're giving yourself too little credit because I think you're doing some good things, and we're gonna talk about those things. But first and foremost, one of the things that I love doing is turning the clock back in time. And you've got 2 daughters, so I wanna go back. I wanna go back to that first moment that you found out that you were going to be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Gregg Behr [00:02:32]: I was scared. I think probably like a lot of dads. It's not that I necessarily wanted a boy. We were hopeful for kids. We were hopeful for a healthy child. And when we learned it's a girl, I remember thinking, I don't know anything about girls. I wasn't raised in a family with sisters. Oh my gosh.

Gregg Behr [00:02:50]: What am I going to do? And so there was joy about we're pregnant, joy about, the pregnancy going well and worry about what do I need to know? What do I need to learn? I knew enough at the time to know my number one job in their lives is to make sure that they just have outrageous confidence about themselves and what they can do in the world. And that so that that compass has always stayed with me from the very beginning before the moment they entered this world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:20]: Now I I've heard that before from other dads, from pretty much every father that I talked to, that fear comes with not only fatherhood, but being a father to a daughter. And I guess first and foremost, as you think about that fear, what was your biggest fear in raising a daughter?

Gregg Behr [00:03:36]: Yeah. Chris, I think it was just it was that I didn't know what I didn't know. I think I fast forwarded all the way from 0 to puberty and I'd like to think that I noticed enough about the world to know that there's gender bias and things might be a little bit harder for a girl than it is for a boy. And so I immediately had that, like, I wanna be a bear dad who is, like, really protective of her daughter because she's gonna be amazing, and I want her to have all sorts of possibilities in this world, and I'm gonna fight off all of the gremlins who are going to poison her with doubt or get in her way because she's gonna be every bit of what she wants to be as a boy could be. Like, they seem like silly things to say out loud, but, like, these were thoughts in my head at the time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:18]: And I think that that goes through a lot of dad's heads. And as you move along, between those different phases in your kids' lives. You learn a little bit more, not only about yourself, but about your daughters. You learn that the differences may not be as different, even though they are. I mean, there there's definite differences there. What would you say has been the hardest part for you in being a father to daughters?

Gregg Behr [00:04:40]: There's no hard part. There's honestly, there's just joy. Like the hard part hearkens back to something you said a moment ago. It's just hard being a parent. It's hard being a dad. I can't imagine living in this world without being a girl dad because I'm now the dad of 2 girls. And I will say Chris, we lost a child in between our 2 girls. And so I remember thinking when we had a healthy pregnancy and we were knew we were gonna have a second child, I was actually begging at that point.

Gregg Behr [00:05:06]: I'm like, I want a girl. Right? Like, I fell in love with my first little girl, and I knew I'd fall in love with my second little girl. And I guess at the time, we had friends who had babies and young kids, and I was like, boys are crazy. What is wrong with that species over there? And I really wanted a girl. Like, I feel so lucky to have 2 healthy girls. I would have been happy with 10 girls. These young women now they're ages 10 12. They are strong and confident and powerful and fun.

Gregg Behr [00:05:35]: They have good hearts, smart brains. Like, I love being around them. I guess I don't know at this point what it would be like to be the dad of a boy, but I feel so blessed to have these 2 girls. And it's just the hard part is just trying to be a good parent every day in the mundane little things in their lives, because it's those mundane things that I know add up to the big things.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:54]: Now with 2 kids, you have to find that balance to be able to create those unique relationships with each of them because each child is unique. Many times when you have more than one child, the personalities are very different. So talk to me about how you've been able to cultivate, how you've been able to work to develop those unique relationships with both your daughters.

Gregg Behr [00:06:17]: Chris, I think in some ways, I've I've tried to be deliberate and intentional about this, and in some ways, I've been accidental. So let me explain. So in terms of being deliberate and intentional, even though I'm a workaholic and I probably don't give enough attention to my family, my personal life, my kids, the way that I should, I do try and be deliberate about the time that I spend with them during the time, you know, when I'm able to be home, when they get home from after school, they get home at different hours, their bed routines, and spending some time with them before they go to bed. And also because we have 2, my wife and I are often going in different directions because, So I try and be really deliberate about the time that we have cars together or on the sidelines or in a gym or whatever it might be. And just I try and be really mindful about being alongside them, not as a friend, but as a parent. The accidental part is this. So during these past 2 years, my wife's father, my father-in-law fell he became quite ill and ultimately passed. And I mentioned this to say that he lives a long distance away, half a world away.

Gregg Behr [00:07:28]: And so what was thrust upon us as a family was that my wife was gone for long intervals at a time over a 2 year period. And there were, there were many months. I mean, we're talking more than 6, 7, 8 months that it was just me, single working dad with my 2 girls. And I don't wish this on anyone. It's hard. Honestly, Chris, I have no idea how single parents get by in this world having had a small window into that. And I will say this time when there was just the 3 of us, our relationship is so fundamentally different than it was previous to that. And there's a closeness and I really got to know both girls really well because I, you know, I had to spend time whether I wanted to or not.

Gregg Behr [00:08:05]: Right? Like, I had to spend time with them in all sorts of household activities, in their school and extracurricular activities, just in their lives in general, in the little chat, you know, mini breaks and things we try to take, in the vacations, or even just walking in the neighborhood. And it's this accidental time that I'm unexpectedly grateful for.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:24]: Accidental time. I love that concept because I think that many times in the small moments when you come home from work and your child asks you to come in or they want to just they ask you to sit down and do something with them. Those can be accidental moments. Those can be those moments that become very important to the child and to you. And as they get older, it's not always easy to find that time, or that they want to spend the time. But it's important to take advantage of that time when they give it to you.

Gregg Behr [00:09:00]: Chris, I just wanna celebrate what you just said. Right? Because one one of the things I learned during this period is exactly what we described. Now that we're lucky enough to be back together as a family, it's still noticing those moments, those mundane moments where accidental things might happen or when one of my daughters comes to me and says, hey, daddy. Can you take a break? Or can you play this game with me? And and I'm now much better, although I could always be better. I'm much better about noticing those moments and taking advantage of them. Because I I know that quip that people say all the time that the days are long, the years are short, but until you experience that, you don't really understand that. And so when one of my kids comes to me or if there's a moment, I try and be much more intentional than I was previously about spending that time with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:43]: It is so important to find that time and to have that special time because as you said, the the years are short. I've come to find that and they go by really fast, especially as your child gets older, they get involved in more things in the years just fly by. And people tell you that, especially when you have young kids and you're like, that's not the case. You know, it's gonna be a heck of a long time until they're 18, a heck of a long time until they're in college. And I got all the time in the world. And then in a blink of an eye, it is over and things change again. So you have to be present in the moment in that regard, because it is fleeting. Even though it may seem long, if you have young children now, it does go by fast.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:28]: And you definitely have to take advantage of that. Now, I know that every father has moments that are memorable, especially moments individually with your children, where you've been able to create those special memories, the special experiences, what have been the most memorable experiences that you've been able to have thus far as a father with your daughters?

Gregg Behr [00:10:50]: There are some moments with my girls that we've repeated because they're Monday moments that we've made special. In the fall, it's often the case. I love college football. College football could be on the TV which we can see from the kitchen and my girls and I love making homemade pizzas from scratch or when the snow comes and maybe every time the snow comes now pouring maple syrup on fresh snow and eating that and celebrating that, or just holidays. Like we make big deals in my family of birthdays and holidays like Christmas and New Year's and Valentine's Day and St. Patrick's Day. It's all of those little daily life things. And it's also true that some of our more special times together are when we're unburdened by work or the errands we have to run because we've gone away.

Gregg Behr [00:11:36]: You know, we've gotten away for a weekend or we've been able lucky enough, privileged enough to schedule a trip. And even though, Chris, I'm I'm the sort of person that makes lists and I'm pretty deliberate and intentional about my work, When I travel, I like to go trucking. Right? Like, where is this road gonna take us? Or, I just read about this farmer's market in this part of Montreal. Let's go see what it's like. Right? A lot of unplanned time and I feel like those moments of unplanned time end up yielding the most special opportunities. Like, oh, remember we had that cheese or, like, remember we stumbled upon that zipline and we went ziplining over these beautiful mountains. Right? Like, it's those, I feel like, Chris, those most special moments are, you know, maybe it's the deliberate trucking or the deliberate exploration without a road map or a a plan for where we're gonna walk to that day, but it's those moments that I think as a family, we treasure the most.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:29]: The moments that you just talked about and the things that you're reflecting on make me really think about the fact that you are an author of a book called when you wonder you're learning. And in your book, you really dive deep into the concept of wonder, and really bring some of the lessons that mister Rogers brought out into the world in my formative years and the formative years of some of you as well. And I guess first and foremost, as we delve into this, I'm really interested in the concept of this book and the concept of wonder. But I'm also interested in the origin story of this because, I mean, mister Rogers definitely had a strong impact on people of a certain age, we'll say, of people that grew up with his teachings. Some others are just still are were introduced to him after the fact, through reruns and things like that. But what made you and your colleague, Ryan Radetzky, decide that you wanted to delve deeper into what mister Rogers was teaching and how any of us could capture wonder and put it into practice, whether it be a teacher in a classroom, or a father in his own home?

Gregg Behr [00:13:47]: Thank you for that question, Chris, or us, what you need to know about me and my coauthor Ryan is that we're kids of Western Pennsylvania. I'm podcasting to you right now from Pittsburgh, which is significant because it's from Pittsburgh that Fred Rogers recorded mister Rogers' neighborhood for nearly 40 years at WQED, America's first public television station. And Fred Rogers himself is a native of Western Pennsylvania. So I mentioned that to say there's something in the water around here. Even though mister Rogers is an American icon, also a Canadian icon, he felt like he was ours. Right? And we had the experience of living in his midst, and and I had the privilege of of knowing him and subsequently his wife. And you mentioned earlier that I work at the Grable Foundation. I work in education philanthropy.

Gregg Behr [00:14:33]: And so for a couple of decades now, I've I've been the luckiest kid in Pittsburgh who gets to figure out how to support amazing teachers and librarians and museum exhibit designers in places like schools and libraries and museums trying to make learning experiences better for kids and their parents, families, and caregivers. Great support for the learning landscape all around Western Pennsylvania. And you could imagine in the course of that work, we we, you know, we're trying to make sure we're doing our jobs well. So we're reading a lot about what makes for great learning experiences. And it was about 7 years ago that Ryan and I are reading these articles and peer reviewed pieces that come from the University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon right in our own yard or the University of Michigan, MIT, Stanford and beyond. And these wickedly smart learning scientists were writing papers that increasingly read to me and Ryan as if they were scripts from mister Rogers' Neighborhood. And as you say, there are generations of Americans, including the 2 of us and you, who grew up watching mister Rogers. And we started to think, you know, is there another story to tell about mister Rogers? He's come back to our popular culture in movies like Morgan Neville's amazing documentary and and the Tom Hanks biopic.

Gregg Behr [00:15:46]: But is there a story to tell about Fred who's not just that loving character that we remember in all of those television visits, but also Fred the learning scientist who was incredibly deliberate and intentional about his work and maybe a learning scientist who left us some blueprints about the things that we need to be doing today in our own homes or our schools and in our communities and neighborhoods. And Chris, it turns out after years of research and a lot of time studying the work of Fred Rogers, meeting with his colleagues, going to the archives, there in fact was a book to be written. And so we wrote, When You Wonder, You're Learning Mr. Rogers Enduring Lessons for Raising Creative, Curious, Caring Kids. And in that book, we talk about the tools for learning and the ways in which Fred Rogers in the neighborhood cultivated curiosity, protected our creativity, found ways to support deep deep listening and loving speech. All I could go on with a a number of tools that we learned about his work that we could translate with practical, accessible, doable examples of things that people are doing today in our schools, museums, libraries, and neighborhoods to really live out what we describe as the Fred method that combines that learning science that we know today about how learning works, coupled with what today we call whole child. It wasn't used during Fred's time, but that sense that every single kid and honestly, every adult goes through the continuous learning that's social, emotional, cognitive, physical, and beyond. Right? And so learning science plus whole chart equals the FRED method.

Gregg Behr [00:17:15]: And there's also a job and personal hazard to co authoring a book like this because then you start to wrestle in your own life. Like, am I doing this? Am I doing it well enough? And that's where we find ourselves today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:26]: So talk to me about that wrestling and what you, after all these years of exploring and delving deeper into what Fred was trying to teach that what you personally learned for yourself that you could incorporate into your own fatherhood that you either were doing or weren't doing? And how did you have to make adjustments?

Gregg Behr [00:17:50]: What Fred did so well is he did lots and lots of little things. So we've used the word mundane a number of times in this conversation, and it's the mundane moments in life that matter. And I also speak to a big moment too. But it's the mundane moments maybe as I'm having a conversation about, you know, a new hard topic. Like, maybe my daughter's in middle school reading dystopian novels and, like, how do you begin to explain that concept? And I remember well that Fred, when he was trying to take kids to a place of mystery, he didn't start by taking us, for example, all the way to the crayon factory. Like, here's how crayons are made, kids. Now he started with his easel in his living room, a safe, comfortable place for us, showed us a crayon, something with which we were all familiar, started drawing and creating art, and talked a lot about that crayon, you know, and then use that simple thing that was so familiar to us to then take us off to the place of mystery about, for example, how crayons are made. And so I find myself, for example, in conversations with my kids today, wondering, like, okay, where do I start with a place that they can begin before trying to explain, like, here's how elevators run or whatever, like, whatever the subject matter might be that, you know, because kids ask thousands of questions, which is another thing.

Gregg Behr [00:19:09]: Right? Like, I've learned to be quiet and to listen to their questions and encourage all sorts of questions and not be quick to say, like, hey, Alexa. What's the answer to this? Right? Like, even though sometimes that has to happen. I try and, you know, mister Rogers did, like, convey a sense like, Catherine, I don't I don't know what the answer that to that is, but, you know, later together, let's let's figure out if we can understand why the willow tree is blooming before every other tree in our yard. Right? Like, whatever it is because as you know, kids ask all sorts of questions. It also goes back to that sensibility that I described of of trucking, of exploring. You know, having times on Saturdays or Sundays when we tend to have the freest time in our lives to say like, what are we gonna try right now? Or, like, what if we put these three things together? Or, you know, mommy's making fried rice all the time and she's grabbing things from the refrigerator. What if we grab 3 things from our refrigerator, like the TV show Chopped and like, how could we put them together? So Chris, it's all sorts of little things, but if I may, may I share a big example too? This happened to me a couple years ago. Our book had just been released and it was a Friday night in March.

Gregg Behr [00:20:17]: I was exhausted. I wanted to do nothing more than just lie on my sofa and watch NCAA March Madness basketball games. Right? Like there were 5 games on at the same time. Teams, I some of whom I'd never heard of before, like, oh, this is gonna be great. I'm gonna watch these amazing basketball games. And I'm sitting there watching these games and my daughter is resting with her head on the the side of the sofa. And she turns to me, Chris, and says, daddy, am I gonna be shot? Which for me, it was like, what? What did you just say? And sadly, there are a number of probably a lot of dads in this country who've heard that question before and the lots of others who've never heard it. And I hope they never ever hear that question.

Gregg Behr [00:20:58]: And what I realized at that moment was that the news of the day of the week had gotten into my household and my kids are of mixed race. My wife is Asian American. And that week, a number of Asian Americans had been massacred in Atlanta. And somehow the news of that had gotten into our household even though maybe naively naively so, I try and protect my kids from, you know, all sorts of bad news in the world. I realized in that moment, Chris, it was like Fred Rogers lessons came rushing to me. 1st of all, I have to acknowledge this question. I can't obviously can't ignore it, but even though I wanted to ignore it and watch Cleveland say or whomever playing. Right? Like, I need to acknowledge this question, notice it, convey to my daughter that she's safe.

Gregg Behr [00:21:41]: Like you're physically safe right here in this moment. You're emotionally safe that I, a carrying a dot in your life and right by your side. Honestly, I don't have the answers to this, but later right now and later in the coming days weeks, you know, we'll wonder together. We'll talk about this. We'll listen to each other. We'll talk about why this is on your mind. What's burdening you? Because as Fred said, anything that's mentionable is manageable. And there were so many lessons from our book, which is a book ultimately about creating those joyful, wondrous learning experiences in big and small ways for the kids in our lives, no matter what our role is, whether it's a parent or classroom teacher librarian or otherwise.

Gregg Behr [00:22:19]: But in that moment as a dad watching back college basketball, like all of those lessons came home in a really powerful and profound way that obviously has become a core memory for me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:29]: It's definitely a powerful moment, a powerful moment between you and your kids. And one thing that comes to mind when I think about what you just said was that for a lot of people, wonder disappears. And there's a point in their life when something some kind of a switch is flipped. And you go from this childhood wonder of looking at the world, questioning things, and looking at things with different, we'll say different glasses to an acceptance of the world as it is. And maybe not questioning or wondering as much. So as you were going through this for yourself, and learning more about what Fred had put into the world, and you're writing this and putting something new out into the world to try to challenge people to flip that switch back on, What did you find that could help people to rekindle that wonder within their lives, that could rekindle and flip that switch for themselves a little bit easier than it might be for their kids so that they can then channel that wonder back into themselves, but also encourage that wonder to stay flipped on for their kids as well.

Gregg Behr [00:23:49]: That's one of our biggest tasks as grown ups in kids' lives. And as you note, it does seem apparent that we lose that sense of creativity and the wonder and and forget the joys of something that maybe brought us lots of joy and we maybe used to spend lots of time doing. Right? Fred Rogers said, the best teacher in the world is the one who loves what he or she does and loves it right in front of you. Now couple that with learning science research. And one of the many studies that Ryan and I cite is some work by George Land, actually from the previous century. And in his research, he documented Chris exactly what you described because he had used this test for NASA, our space agency, and identified that so many 5 year olds, it was 98% of 5 year olds who took this test developed for NASA scored so well that they qualified as creative geniuses. Right? And and to your point, like, you can think about little kids and they they come up with the genius solutions to all sorts of things in their life. So, like, they wonder and they're creating and they're like, what happens if I do this? And what George Landon and his team did was that they tested that same group of 5 year olds every 5 years through adulthood.

Gregg Behr [00:24:56]: And 98% at 5 years old by adulthood, that percentage had dropped to 2%. Now importantly, what George land and his team concluded was not that our creativity just naturally fades, but actually that we as, you know, teenagers and then as adults learn all sorts of noncreative behaviors. You know, we learn to suppress those things or to take in other people's judgment. We learned that sense of perspective taking and empathy building. And what's Fred Rogers' solution to this? It's to model behavior. And it's why when you go back as an adult and look at what he did on that program, you could see Fred in his living room and he could be, you know, putting together popsicle sticks or cutting with felt. And he made it clear at that moment that it was bringing him great joy. And it wasn't just Fred.

Gregg Behr [00:25:44]: Right? It was Yo Yo Ma and Julia Child and all of those folks we got to meet, the celebrities really that we met in the program. And Fred wasn't celebrating their gold medals or their major accomplishments. He was celebrating the joy of Yo Yo Yo Ma playing the cello or Julie Child cutting up ingredients. And it was also the the guests I mean, it was also the characters on the show. Right? Handyman Negri was not just the hand man. He was the neighborhood guitarist. Officer Clemens was not just policing the neighborhood. He was an opera singer.

Gregg Behr [00:26:12]: Right? Fred was making it clear that people have joy and that they we don't need to give up the things that bring us joy and creativity as we age. And so it's a reminder to us, as Fred said, if we want to be the best teacher in the world, that we have to love what we're doing right in front of our kids. It's why a teacher who loves beekeeping and brings beekeeping into her math class can light up a classroom around math because she's brought beekeeping something she loves into that classroom. It's like me jumping on my skateboard in my neighborhood and not realizing that all the kids are watching and having joy as an adult going down my cul de sac and surviving. And unbeknownst to me, loving what I was doing at that moment and sparking an interest in those kids. We as grown ups need to be really intentional and deliberate as we do things as much as possible demonstrate that the joy that it's bringing us. So there's good reason to pick up that guitar or pull out those knitting instruments or or to do the things that bring us joy or to try new things, but whatever we're doing, to be clear that it's bringing us joy. That's how we counter that sense of losing creativity and wonder.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:21]: So how do you define joy? And how do you define wonder? And I can see concentric circles that there's an overlap, but how do you define them?

Gregg Behr [00:27:31]: Yeah. Joy isn't just happiness. Joy is that internal sense of awe about experiencing something, witnessing something, doing something and in that sense of awe, I think is a a deep connection to wondering because in that moment you start to look around and you start to notice. Right? Like, noticing is really important because in that wondering, you start to then ask questions or provoke ideas in yourself or in others. And so to me, that sense of awe is in many ways a through line between joy and wonder.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:05]: Now you've put this book out in the world. It's been out for a while now. And you've been traveling, you've been talking about it, you're taking what you've been learning and trying to help others to incorporate this. What's been the response from your own kids to what you wrote, but also the change that they may have seen in you based on what you learned and are putting into place now?

Gregg Behr [00:28:31]: That is such a great question, Chris. And I thought you were gonna ask me about how the audience reacts. Right? Because it's so fun to talk about something, some person like Fred Rogers to whom there's such an emotional connection. And Ryan and I have been able to identify from others in the world all sorts of examples of FRED method like approaches. But to turn that question to myself, I know one of the things that my kids have seen because I've taken them to I've taken them to events. It could be book signings. It could be a talk I was giving either locally or another city. Like we've created little adventures about this.

Gregg Behr [00:29:04]: And they've seen in me and my coauthor, Ryan, the joy that we have talking about this book. So there's no doubt that they've seen the joy of producing something in the world that matters to others in ways little and big. And maybe because of that, I don't know. I've seen my kids doing more writing, doing more reading, doing a bit more presentations and playful things that they did as younger kids, as preteens. Now, I hope they see in me the joy that I've had and the hard work, right? Like it's not like there's hard work and joy too. Right? The hard work and the commitment that I've had to something and then to find ways to share in ways that are helpful to others. I'm so hopeful they've they've noticed that. I think that they have.

Gregg Behr [00:29:50]: I wish they were here right now to tell you, Chris, what they've noticed and what they haven't, but that's what I hope they've noticed.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:56]: It's always a great way to be able to, later tonight, say, let's talk about this. Let's explore.

Gregg Behr [00:30:01]: What do you wonder about when you wonder about daddy's book about wonder?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:05]: Very that's very meta. That's very meta. Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5 where I ask you 5 more questions that to delve deeper into you as a dad. You ready?

Gregg Behr [00:30:16]: I hope so.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:17]: In one word, what is fatherhood?

Gregg Behr [00:30:19]: Patience.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:20]: When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Gregg Behr [00:30:24]: In the quiet of putting them to bed at night and knowing that they were rested, well fed, and that there was some joy and laughter and goodness to their day.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:36]: Now, if I was to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad?

Gregg Behr [00:30:40]: Silly, sometimes loud, hardworking, occasionally demanding.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:44]: In 10 years from now, what do you want them to say?

Gregg Behr [00:30:46]: I love you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:47]: Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Gregg Behr [00:30:49]: Oh, Chris, as I start to tear up over here, I can't help but think of my own dad. My dad's a big guy. He's an amazing dad, big guy, big papa bear, played football, and he wears his emotions on his sleeve. And I feel like ever since I became a dad, I wear my emotions on my sleeve in the same way. And I I've gotten really comfortable with that. And if I can be half as bit as my dad was a dad to me and my brother, to my own girls, then I will have done a really excellent job for them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:22]: Now you've given a lot of piece of advice today. And as you think about all dads that are out there, what's one piece of advice you'd want to leave with all of them?

Gregg Behr [00:31:32]: I tell my girls every day to use their good heart and their smart brain. And I suppose time will tell, but I hope that just the repeated conveyance to them, like that sharing with them, the encouraging of them to use their good heart, to use their smart brain, and to know that they're beautiful will prove to be sticky in the human beings that they become.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:52]: Well, Greg, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here for doing what you're doing to inspire wonder in kids, in adults, and challenging parents to encourage wonder within their kids as they grow up and flipping that switch back on to bring wonder back into our lives. If people wanna find out more about you, where should they go?

Gregg Behr [00:32:15]: They would find our book at when you wonder.org. And happily, you can ideally find it at your local bookstore, also at Amazon, Barnes and Noble. And I'm also on X and LinkedIn, Greg Bear.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:27]: Again, Greg, thank you so much for being here today, and I wish you all the best.

Gregg Behr [00:32:31]: Chris, thank you so much. What a complete joy and honor to be with you, and thanks for letting me figure some of this out right in front of you. Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:38]: The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more. You will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together dot org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:30]: We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast, calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and be the world to them. Be the Best dad that you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In today's fast-paced world, the role of a father is evolving, and the importance of actively participating in one's daughter's life cannot be overstated. In this podcast episode, we have an insightful conversation with Nick Adams, a dedicated father of four and author of "Being the Dad You Wish You Had: 5 Big Stones for Effective Fatherhood." Through this discussion, Nick shares invaluable wisdom and experiences that shed light on the journey of fatherhood. His insights offer guidance on nurturing strong, independent daughters while navigating the complexities of being a father. Let's delve into the key takeaways from this engaging conversation.

Fatherhood Defined: Relationship Building

As the conversation unfolds, Nick truly encapsulates fatherhood in one word: relationship. This fundamental aspect is at the core of his approach to being a father to his daughters. Recognizing the influential power that fathers possess, Nick emphasizes the significance of focusing on building and nurturing a strong relationship with his children. This insight serves as a cornerstone for fathers looking to make a meaningful impact on their daughters' lives.

Navigating Fear and Parental Insecurities

Nick's candid reflections on the fears and insecurities he grappled with as he anticipated becoming a father to daughters resonate with many. His honest admission of feeling unprepared and inadequate highlights a common sentiment experienced by numerous fathers. By addressing these fears, Nick offers a relatable perspective that encourages fathers to acknowledge their vulnerabilities while embarking on the journey of fatherhood.

Redefining Success as a Father

A pivotal moment in the conversation arises when Nick reflects on the indicators of success as a father. His daughters' choices to actively engage in his work and to consider him not just as a father, but as one of their best friends, signify a profound sense of accomplishment for Nick. This reframing of success steers fathers away from external benchmarks and towards fostering relationships and open communication with their children.

Individuality and Connection with Each Child

Nick eloquently underscores the importance of recognizing and embracing the individuality of each child. Highlighting that what works for one child may not necessarily work for another, he imparts the wisdom of fostering unique relationships with each of his daughters. By valuing and understanding their distinct personalities, fathers are encouraged to tailor their approach to parenting, creating meaningful connections with their children.

Balancing Career and Fatherhood

With a busy schedule and a career that demands significant attention, Nick reflects on the necessity of finding balance between professional commitments and being an engaged father. His commitment to prioritizing his daughters' key events and establishing a consistent family dinner ritual underscores the significance of being present in their lives. Nick's experiences serve as a reminder for fathers to strive for balance in juggling their various responsibilities.

Embracing Imperfection and Making Progress

A striking aspect of Nick's insights is his emphasis on embracing imperfections while continuously striving for progress. By navigating the challenges of fatherhood with the mindset of making incremental strides, fathers are encouraged to alleviate the pressure of perfectionism. Nick's wisdom resonates as a reminder that the journey of fatherhood is about growth and connection, rather than achieving flawlessness.

Advice for Every Father

In a parting piece of advice, Nick extends a guiding principle to all fathers. He underscores the importance of understanding and supporting his children in becoming their authentic selves, rather than shaping them into a predetermined image. This profound insight emphasizes the transformative power of valuing individuality and empowering daughters to embrace their unique talents and aspirations.

Nick Adams' profound insights and candid reflections offer a wealth of wisdom for fathers navigating the intricate path of raising strong, independent daughters. His invaluable experiences underscore the significance of relationship-building, the embrace of imperfection, and the quest for progress as fundamental principles in effective fatherhood. By leveraging Nick's insights, fathers can embark on their journey with renewed inspiration, equipped to nurture vibrant relationships with their daughters while striving to be the best dads they can be.

Nick Adams' reflections highlight the transformative power of an engaged and empathetic father-daughter relationship, serving as a beacon of wisdom for fathers seeking to nurture meaningful connections with their children while navigating the rich tapestry of fatherhood.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:15]: Welcome back to Dads with Daughters where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, I love being able to sit down with you, to work with you, to talk with you, to be able to be on this journey side by side with you, because it is a journey. Every day is a journey with our daughters. And no matter what age they're at, things are going to change and to be able to walk hand in hand side by side with other dads, learning from them is so important. And that's why I love being able to have this opportunity to talk to you every week because none of us have to do this alone. So often society makes it seem like we do have to, but that is not the case. There are so many fathers that have gone before us that have kids that have grown and flown, that have learned things and can share that learning with you, maybe your neighbor, but it could also be someone on the other end of your earphones.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:19]: And that's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that can share those experiences with you and help you along the journey that you're on. This week, we've got another great guest with us today. Nick Adams is with us. And Nick is dedicated to helping men understand the power of living into their strengths and dreams and provides actionable tools for the journey to authentic manhood. He is an author. He's a father of 4. So we're gonna be learning more about him and his journey as a father, and I'm really excited to have him here. Nick, thanks so much for being here today.

Nick Adams [00:01:55]: Christopher, it's my pleasure. I'm looking forward. Even as you were introducing the show, I I just feel excited to see some of the phrases you use about connecting, not just when kids are young, but ongoing and having relationship that that's great. I'm excited about the show.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:09]: Well, I'm excited to have you on. And as I said, you're a father of 4. So first and foremost, what I love doing is turning the clock back in time. I know you have 2 daughters. So I'm gonna go all the way back to that first moment that you found out that you were going to be a dad to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Nick Adams [00:02:23]: Oh, I mean, honestly, I was terrified because, like, I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't really have a great role model as a father. And so I found myself expecting and not just expecting a child, but expecting a girl, which that's like, okay. I mean, at least I sort of understand guys. You know, I've I've never pretended to understand girls. And so, like, wow. It just really was pretty traumatizing. If not traumatized is wrong, it was scary and exciting.

Nick Adams [00:02:53]: Oh my goodness. So exciting.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:54]: You definitely don't wanna forget that because your daughters won't let you live that down if that was the case. If you just say it was terrifying. So

Nick Adams [00:03:00]: Yeah. It was both. Still is.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:02]: So I wanna hear about the terrifying piece because I hear from a lot of dads that raising daughters, that you definitely run into that there's fear that there's fear that comes with that. What was your biggest fear in raising daughters?

Nick Adams [00:03:17]: Well, I mean, really my biggest fear wasn't centered specifically around daughters. It was centered around being a father. And and a lot of it just came from the fact that I didn't feel like I had a very good role model. And, you know, you hear people talking about, oh, you know, my dad told me every day or I heard over and over. This is, you know, a a life lesson I learned from my dad. And I was just like, I really don't have any of those, you know. And so I felt very inadequate and unprepared. And so I think that was my biggest fear because like probably most parents, after you realize you're having a daughter or a son or whatever it is you're having, you're just excited.

Nick Adams [00:03:55]: It doesn't matter about the gender as long as I mean, my big thing was as long as they're healthy and we can have a a going forward and things to work out, I'm good. So my biggest fears were really surrounding being a dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:06]: So coming into fatherhood without that mentor, without that person that you could look to to say they did it right, and I wanna follow that example. How did you surround yourself or find other people as substitutes to be able to guide you in that journey that you were on?

Nick Adams [00:04:24]: Yeah. Unfortunately, when I started down the journey of fatherhood, you weren't doing podcast. And so I couldn't find you. That would have been a great find. But I did just try to find other men who were further along in the journey and watch what they were doing. I was a youth pastor at the time that that I was starting my family and having children. And so I was watching other people raise their kids and I was trying to help them disciple their kids and and just help their kids grow up into healthy people. And so I had the opportunity to watch both what worked and what didn't work and to glean information there.

Nick Adams [00:05:05]: I did a whole lot of reading, took classes. And then really, I think observation, that was probably one of the strongest things I had going for me because I was in so many families' lives dealing with their children and getting to to watch them. So I think that was probably one of the best things for me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:21]: Now you have 2 daughters. Every child is completely unique, and they have different personalities. They have different wants. They have different needs. And as you are building those relationships with your kids, you have to keep that in mind. So talk to me about how you had to what you had to do to be able to build those unique relationships with each of your daughters individually?

Nick Adams [00:05:46]: Well, I think you just pointed out what I think is one of the most important pieces, and that is acknowledging it. If you can keep in mind that these are not the same people and what works with 1 will not work with the other, then I think that's a big step forward. And then and and of course, they're not only are they different people, they're at different ages, they're at different stages, they're experiencing life in a different capacity. I mean, my girls are 2 years apart, which is pretty close, but still there's a pretty good difference between being a 4 year old and being a 6 year old, you know. I mean, you've you've not done any kind of school and you are now functioning as a 1st grader and being in the school all day long. And there's just a there's a lot of differences even in a 2 year gap. And if you have a larger gap, it's even more than that. And so I think just acknowledging that and trying to be aware of where your kids are in the process.

Nick Adams [00:06:38]: And as as they step over those various hurdles of again, there's a pretty big difference between a 9 year old and an 11 year old or especially when they move on over to 12. You know, you start to have some pretty distinct differences there. So I think being aware of that and consciously focusing on what's their temperament. I don't I don't know if you're familiar with, the book, the 5 love languages. But, you know, I I read that and tried to not just apply it to my relationship with my wife, but also to think about my kids and say, you know, what is their love language? Because that was one of the things I watched as I was watching families and and being a youth pastor was you'd have 2 kids or 3 kids in the same family. And one of them would tell you my parents hate me and they're terrible and this is an awful family. And and you'd have another one and be like, oh my gosh, my parents are so great and and I feel so loved. And you're just like, what is going on? But I think a part of it is that we all experience love differently.

Nick Adams [00:07:38]: And so just to your point, if you don't acknowledge that your kids are different and how you interact with them has to be different for them to feel that same level of nurture and love, then you end up with that kind of dynamic where you've got really different experiences coming out of the same home.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:55]: Now as you look at I mean, you're a busy guy. There's You've had a lot of things happen in your life. You run a camp for kids. And being as busy as you are, there's definitely this balance. There's balance that you have to find in your life to be able to do the things that are important to you professionally, but also being that engaged father, especially with 4 kids and having to raise 4 kids that are probably all going in different directions as they're getting older and getting involved in things. So talk to me about balance and how you were able to balance all of that and still be that dad you wanted to be.

Nick Adams [00:08:30]: Well, you know, Christopher, I'd love to tell you I did a great job at that. I'm not sure that I did, but I did try. And you know, one of the things that I I talked about in the book is really the goal I don't think is to be perfect. It's to make progress and none of us are gonna do it perfectly. And, and I just, I acknowledge that through the years, I really probably didn't do that balance perfectly. But one of some of the things I really tried to focus on was being at all of my kids' events. I mean, my youngest daughter, I was actually doing a international trip and I missed her birthday. Now, never mind that I sent her to do one of her favorite things and, you know, paid for that to happen.

Nick Adams [00:09:13]: And, but I wasn't there. And then when I got back home, I missed it by like 2 days. And when I got back home, we celebrate it. But probably for the next decade, just periodically, she'll remind me that I missed her birthday. You know? And and I just, I just laughed. I'm like, you know, honey, I missed one event out of your whole lifetime. The and that's why that stands out to you. It's because I was at all the other things.

Nick Adams [00:09:37]: So but I think that's just super important. You know, my daughters were in gymnastics and they were in dance and there was competitions and there were shows and I just didn't miss any of those. And I really, I think I can say that honestly, I didn't miss any of those because those are just big events for them. And and so to be supportive, nothing was more important than that. And I think what is genuinely true for me is that my favorite thing in life is being bad. Like, there's not anything I do that I get more pleasure out of than being bad. And so that I think communicates to the kids that, you know, I'm not at their ballgame because I have to be there. You know, I'm I'm there because man, I wanna see what happens.

Nick Adams [00:10:26]: I wanna watch you play. I wanna support you. I wanna be a part of your life. And so I think there are times yeah. I had to leave for work or I wasn't there every moment of their waking hours, but I did a lot of work to make sure that they were always supported in their events. And the other thing that we did as a family, my girls and my boys are kind of different ages. I got about 10 year age span between them. So I've got 2 sets of children almost.

Nick Adams [00:10:54]: But my with the older kids, especially, we had dinner every night as a family. And that just, there wasn't a time that didn't happen when one of my girls was doing gymnastics and she didn't get out of gym until 8:30. None of us ate until she got home 15 to 9. And that's when dinner was because that was important for us to build that kind of connection and relationship. So those are some of the ways that I think I've tried to really balance career and busy and then family.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:26]: Now you mentioned the fact that you had you have a book that's called Being the Dad You Wish You Had, 5 Big Stones for Effective Fatherhood. And I guess, 1st and foremost, as a as someone that has written books in the past myself, I know how much time, effort, patience, and more go into the labor of love that becomes the One of the things that I've done is run some some businesses. I've run

Nick Adams [00:11:57]: One of the things that I've done is run some some businesses. I've run businesses and nonprofits. And especially in the business community, I've got 2 construction oriented companies. And I found myself so I work predominantly with men. So I found myself pretty frequently saying to somebody, you know, they're they're a good worker. They've got pretty good skills. They just were raised by wolves. They have and what I always meant by that is they they just have no idea of how to engage with life.

Nick Adams [00:12:28]: And although they're not really a terrible person that creates a lot of dysfunction around them because they just don't know how to live life and they didn't get what they needed as children. And I've said that through the years and I've tried to help my my employees and do different kinds of classes and just anything I can do to help kind of mentor and develop them. And so, and I don't think I've been particularly effective with any of that, but I've tried hard. And then one night we were sitting around the dining room table and we were answering conversation starters. And the conversation starter this particular night was if you could change anything in the world, what would it be? And like a bolt of lightning, I knew if I could change anything in the world, I would create effective fathers. Because if I could create effective fathers, I could change the world. And that became kind of the genesis of the book for me, is realizing that really what I wanted to do and what I believe would have the most impact of anything I could do would be to help create a situation where fathers could be more effective.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:33]: In sharing this out into the world, I know that you drew from your own experiences, and you put those experiences into the book. What were some of the biggest takeaways that you really wanted someone to take out of reading this as you walked in? And what are you finding now that it is out in the world and people are are reading it that they are pulling out of it?

Nick Adams [00:13:56]: Yeah. I think really one of the biggest things kind of the 2 big things that I would want people to get out of the book and they're not like written as a part of a chapter, they're kinda just, I hope it's there, is that dads are really influential. They're very powerful. Now actually that is one of the chapters, but you know, that they just have a lot of influence. And if you as a father, just focus a little, you're going to make a difference in your kid's life because you have so much ability and so much influence to bring to their lives. So that's one thing. And then the other thing that I always want dads to realize, and I've said it already today is it's not about being perfect. It's about making progress.

Nick Adams [00:14:39]: And I think because as fathers, I think we can just get so overwhelmed and feel like I don't know what to do next. I can't tell you how many times, you know, especially when the kids were in the 11 to 15 range. I just think, I just don't know what to do next. I've tried everything I know and man, it doesn't seem to be coming out the way I'd like to see it come out. And, and some days you just think, oh, this is way harder than anybody told me it was going to be. I had no idea this is gonna be so tough. And so I think the big part of the message is just to say, it's okay. You don't have to do everything perfect.

Nick Adams [00:15:12]: You've gotta just keep making progress in the journey, and keep making those connection points with your kids, building relationship. And you can make some pretty good size mistakes as long as you'll own your mistakes and keep connected relationally, and you're gonna keep moving forward. And so that's really why the focus on the 5 big stones because I think there's some things if you get them right, then other things will fall into place. And it's not 20 things to do to be a great dad because that's overwhelming. You know, it's kind of, here's 5 ideas, 5 mentalities, 5 things to understand that then you can incorporate into your own life to become the person you wanna be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:51]: Now I know that you've incorporated these 5 stones into the what you've done with your own kids, your kids. And, yeah, I know your daughters have grown. They've flown. They've gone out of the nest and are out in the world doing different things at this point. Now that you're at a different phase in your fatherhood and you look back, what could you what could you have done different? Or what would you have done different now looking back? Or even looking at what you've written and what you've learned, what would you have changed?

Nick Adams [00:16:17]: Wow. That is a great question. Looking back, I mean, I really do think what I just said is probably a big part of it. I think I would sweat less. I would worry just a little bit less and acknowledge that I'm making progress because I just feel like there's so much value in that. It it takes so much pressure off, which makes you probably more relational and and be more able to actually connect with your kids instead of being all about, you know, I gotta do this just perfect. So I think, really that's probably one of the big things I would change. Not just about painting, I'd change that about most of my life.

Nick Adams [00:16:51]: I would go back and and just kind of relax a little bit and know that it's okay. I'm going to make mistakes and it's probably not going to be the end of the world. And then when it really is pretty seriously bad, you just own your stuff and go on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:05]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Nick Adams [00:17:13]: I hope so. Sounds a little scary.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:15]: In one word, what is fatherhood?

Nick Adams [00:17:16]: The first thing that comes to mind is relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:18]: When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Nick Adams [00:17:23]: I have felt that with both of my daughters, one who chose to get out of college and come and work with me on a personal you know just daily level working in the camp and working with my speaking and writing and those kinds of things. Cause to me, a big part of success is having a relationship. And so the fact that she wants to be a part of what I'm doing was very much an, there was some success here. And then my older daughter has told me that I'm one of her best friends. And that to me is success.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:56]: It definitely is. Now, if I was to talk to your daughters, how would they describe you as a dad?

Nick Adams [00:18:03]: That would be hilarious. I'd love to let you talk to them, and then I'd like to listen. But I think one of the things I did was ask them, because I knew I was doing this podcast with you and it was about, you know, fathers and daughters. And so I asked them, what are some things that were important to you? What were things that made a difference for you? And one of the things that both of them mentioned was something I shared earlier, just that you were always at our stuff. You made being there a priority. And then one of them said, you know, you made it easy to talk to you. I always knew I could come to you and tell you things and you weren't going to go crazy and overreact and that you would be able to listen to what's happening in my life and and support me emotionally. So they told me that I don't know what they would tell you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:50]: Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Nick Adams [00:18:52]: One of the people who has inspired me to be a better father. I just had the privilege of doing this funeral 3 weeks ago, but he had raised 2 of the kids that were in my youth group when I was a youth pastor long years ago. And they are now, you know, in their forties or whatever. But I just watched how effective he was with his kids. And at one point did a series of, of like small group classes on parenting. And I brought him in as the speaker and I watched his life. And so he was truly probably one of the people who I've learned the most from. His name is Paul Hively.

Nick Adams [00:19:29]: Just you ask a name, there's your name.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:31]: Now you've given a lot of pieces of wisdom. Some things that you've learned along the way, some things that have worked, maybe some things that didn't work. And as you think about all dads that are out there and as we finish up today, what's one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every father?

Nick Adams [00:19:45]: I think one of the things that comes to mind today is just to acknowledge that your goal is to help parent your kids to be who they're supposed to be, Not to be who you want them to be or who you wish they would but to try to understand who they are and what their gifts are and their desires are, and then give them tools to become who they want to be instead of trying to create them and kind of the image you want them to end up as. Because really, we're not usually very effective if we're trying to create them in some image we have in our own mind as opposed to looking and seeing who they really are and then developing those gifts and talents that they have so that they can become the best version of themselves.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:31]: I really appreciate you sharing that, sharing your wisdom today with us. Now, if people wanna find out more about you and your book, where should they go?

Nick Adams [00:20:38]: Well, they can get the book on Amazon. Just go to Amazon and search Being the Dad You Wish You Had. It's available as a digital book and as a paperback. It'll be coming out soon as a hardback and we're gonna do audio hopefully launching next month. So those are coming as well. And then you can reach me at info at being dash dad dot com. And that's also the website being dash dad dot com.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:04]: Well, Nick, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing your own story with your daughters, and I wish you all the best.

Nick Adams [00:21:11]: Perfect. Thank you, Christopher. It's great to be with you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:13]: The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together dot org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week all geared to helping you raise strong and powered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:04]: We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast, the time goes by just like a dynamite blast, calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and be the world to them. Be the best that you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Embracing the Journey and Overcoming Challenges

In a heartwarming conversation on the Dads with Daughters podcast, Bruce Chamoff, a seasoned podcaster and entrepreneur, shared insightful anecdotes about his journey as a father to his now 20-year-old daughter. As fatherhood is a unique and deeply personal experience, Bruce's revelations bring valuable lessons to the forefront, shedding light on the joys, struggles, and growth that come with raising a daughter.

Welcoming Fatherhood: The Journey Begins

It's not uncommon to feel a mix of excitement and bewilderment upon learning about pending fatherhood. Bruce's recollections of the day he learned he was going to be a father to a daughter paint a vivid picture of the emotions that accompany this pivotal moment. He beautifully captures the blend of enthusiasm and uncertainty that fathers often experience, highlighting the eagerness to embark on the journey of parenthood while simultaneously grappling with the vast unknown that lies ahead.

Navigating Fears and Challenges: Insights from a Father's Perspective

As Bruce shared his fears and concerns about raising a daughter, he echoed sentiments that many fathers can relate to. The apprehensions surrounding teenage years, the challenge of letting go, and the anxiety about protecting their daughters from potential heartbreak are universal themes. Bruce's candid reflections provide a platform for fathers to recognize and acknowledge their fears while learning to embrace the inevitable challenges that come with guiding their daughters through adolescence.

Lessons Learned: Embracing Uniqueness and Understanding Balance

One of the most poignant moments from Bruce's narrative revolves around the realization that children, especially daughters, will never mirror their parents entirely. This acknowledgment opens the door to a beautiful journey of comprehension and acceptance. By understanding their daughters' unique traits and embracing the differences, fathers can forge deeper connections, fostering an environment of mutual respect and understanding.

The elusive balance between work and family life is a feat that many fathers strive to master. Bruce openly shared his experiences, acknowledging the struggle to balance his entrepreneurial endeavors with his responsibilities as a father. His insights underscore the importance of finding ways to integrate family into career pursuits, emphasizing the value of involving children in a father's professional endeavors as a means of nurturing work-life balance.

The Impact of Podcasting: A Tool for Connection and Growth

Podcasting has been a transformative force in Bruce's life, propelling him to connect with a global community and share his passions. Through podcasting, Bruce discovered a means to weave a rich tapestry of stories—a skill that also enhanced his role as a storyteller in his daughter's life. His experiences serve as an inspiration for fathers to explore creative ways to engage with their daughters, fostering deeper connections through shared interests and joint pursuits.

Legacy and Continuation: Parenting and Professional Endeavors

In a heartening turn of events, Bruce's professional journey subsequently intertwined with the personal domain, leading to a collaboration with his daughter on the World Podcast Network. This fusion exemplifies a harmonious blend of professional success and familial bonds, underscoring the significance of involving children in parents' passions and enterprises. Through this alliance, Bruce not only imparts invaluable skills and knowledge but also lays the foundation for his daughter's professional growth and development.

Navigating Fatherhood with Intention and Love

Bruce's narrative offers an array of insights and reflections on fatherhood that resonate deeply with fathers from all walks of life. His journey encapsulates the essence of fatherhood—embracing the unknown with open arms, embarking on a path of continual growth, and fostering enduring connections with daughters. His story serves as a poignant reminder that fatherhood is not solely about providing but also about nurturing, guiding, and fostering a legacy of love and understanding.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, every week, I love being able to sit down with you, to talk to you, to walk beside you on this path that you're on in working to be the best dad that you want to be and working to make those meaningful connections that you want to make with your daughters. Why is it important? Well, it's important because you signed up for it. You signed up to be a dad. You signed up to walk on this path to be there with your kids. And sometimes the journey can be lonely. Sometimes the journey can be challenging.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:56]: And being able to learn from other dads, learn from other people, and understand that you're not alone is just part of the battle. I love also being able to bring you different people, different people that have gone through this journey themselves. They are going through this journey themselves and can share the experiences that they've had as a father because you're going to learn from them. And if you open yourself up to it, you'll probably take a few things away from it to be able to help you to be that dad you wanna be and to help you raise that daughter that you wanna raise. This week, we've got another great guest with us today. Bruce Chamoff is with us today. And Bruce is with the World Podcast Network. I love talking about podcasting, but we're not gonna be talking just about podcasting today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:43]: We're gonna be actually talking about Bruce's experience in being a father to a daughter. He's got a 20 year old daughter That also helps him with podcasting too by go down that pipe that path a little bit. But I'm really excited to have him on, to have him tell his story, and for you to learn from him. Bruce, thanks so much for being here today.

Bruce Chamoff [00:02:02]: Hey, thanks, Chris. It was

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:03]: my pleasure. Know, one of the things that I love doing, 1st and foremost, is I love turning the clock back in time. I said that you had a 20 year old daughter. So I wanna turn the clock back maybe 21 years. You know, back to that first moment that you found out that you were going to be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Bruce Chamoff [00:02:19]: Well, I was at work, and my wife called me. Actually, we're not married now, but she called me at the time and she said, are you sitting down? And I didn't think of hearing that she was pregnant. So she said, I said, yeah. I'm sitting down. I'm pregnant. I was excited. I mean, I think every parent gets excited when they hear that, but they're also dumbfounded at the same time. And I had that going through in my mind.

Bruce Chamoff [00:02:40]: And then right away, we were talking about names. And that was the whole conversation. And, yes, I was excited. But, you know, that you just wanna be a parent. And you know that the day you hear that you are going to be a parent, you want those whole 9 months to just fly by. And that's what was going through my mind. I'm like, okay. Yes.

Bruce Chamoff [00:03:02]: I'm gonna be a dad. Yes. She's pregnant. Perfect. I wish that that 9 months would just come tomorrow. You know? And that was it. But it was a really good journey, that whole thing. I got that new dad book series.

Bruce Chamoff [00:03:15]: I forgot who the author was. I was reading that, like, from literally the first week when I found out that I was gonna be a dad and I was prepared. And that was it. You know, the whole family was excited. I mean, you know how that whole thing goes.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:25]: So I talked to a lot of dads and a lot of dads say to me that in having a daughter, there's some fear that goes along with that. You talked about pulling out those books and reading and trying to immerse yourself and learning what you need to learn and trying to figure it out. But as you think about the moments you've had with your daughter and raising your daughter, what was your biggest fear in raising a daughter?

Bruce Chamoff [00:03:47]: What I've been hearing about from most people, and that is, oh, love her right now because when she becomes a teenager, she's not gonna wanna know you. And then you gotta watch out for all the guys. And, of course, I'm thinking, well, I don't really care about that now. We're gonna go through 10 or 12 years of her not me not worrying about that and that's what happened. But when she hit about 13, she was acting like a teenager and that's when everybody says just watch the guys. They're gonna come. They're gonna blow on. I'm like, okay.

Bruce Chamoff [00:04:12]: And I believe that's the big fear from

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:14]: It is scary. And now how did you get through that for yourself?

Bruce Chamoff [00:04:18]: I mean, really, you can't prepare for that. You just have to go through it. My friend Jay has I forgot how old his daughter is now but it's funny because he was telling me I love my daughter. She says I'm the greatest dad in the world. I'm like, yeah, you know, my daughter told me that too. And after a while, it becomes sort of the opposite when it become a teenager. So just appreciate all the compliments she's giving you right now because those compliments will go away for at least 4 to 5 years, and then they'll come back. And then he said to me, well, I'm playing Roblox with her.

Bruce Chamoff [00:04:49]: I said, oh, yeah. I played Roblox with my daughter. He says, they were around back then? I'm like, yeah. They're very big company. They're now public. They have a stock. People are investing in the stocks. Like, I didn't know that.

Bruce Chamoff [00:04:58]: I'm like, yeah. I didn't know that either. But I'm now giving him advice that no one gave me because his daughter, I think, is about 5 years younger than mine. So what I went through and honestly, my daughter and I get along really well now. I'm excited to know what's going on in her life. She calls me almost every day. She's working for me on the podcast network. We get along great, and it's amazing.

Bruce Chamoff [00:05:19]: I just said, Jay, it's gonna be a little bit of a ride when she becomes a teenager. And I tell all the dads, if your daughter is not a teenager right now and what people are telling you about your love her right now and appreciate all the love that she's giving you because when she becomes a teenager, she's not going to know you. And honestly, most people told me that. All I can say is you can't really prepare for that. All you can do is prepare yourself because you can't change your daughter. Your daughter's gonna go that way. She's gonna be influenced by peer pressure. She's gonna be influenced by other teenagers, and there's nothing you can do about that.

Bruce Chamoff [00:05:51]: You can only change yourself as a dad and how you deal with it and just learn to accept it, know it's coming, and also you can take comfort in the fact it's gonna go away a couple years later. And that's what I thought as

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:02]: I mentioned, things are not always easy. As you said, you get into those teenage years and sometimes they could be bumpy, but there's heart there's times that'll go simply, and they just flow. There's times that will be challenging, and you get through those, and you push through those. What's been the hardest part for you in being a father to a daughter?

Bruce Chamoff [00:06:21]: That's kind of a loaded question. I mean, I would say, probably, another mistake that parents make, and I made this too, and this is what the hardest part is, is trying to get your child, whether it's a son or a daughter, to be exactly like you. And I tell all the dads that's never going to happen. And you know what? My dad got ups. He got upset with me too because I wasn't into the things that he was into. And you have to realize that your child, especially a daughter, will never be like you. They'll have some of those traits. Right? Because they are your kid, but they'll never be exactly like you.

Bruce Chamoff [00:06:52]: And, also, the mother, you're whether you're married or not, your co parent is not like you either. So your daughter is going to take some of those traits as well and your daughter is going to take some of the of the traits from your entire family that also might not be you. So the hardest part for me was, okay, determining how is she like me, how is she not like me, and how we actually end up in the middle and accept all those things that she's not like me? And I'm doing it. And it's it's really cool thing because now I'm learning from my daughter. My father told me when I was a kid that daddies know everything. And of course when you're a kid, you don't know much. You don't have an education. So you're going to believe that your father knows everything.

Bruce Chamoff [00:07:27]: And then as I started growing up and learning computer programming, I realized my father doesn't know how to program. So now at this point, daddies don't know everything. And now my daughter is teaching me things that I never knew. So it's great. Learn from your kids.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:42]: You definitely can learn from your kids. I find that with my own daughters that I learn things from them, you know, sometimes things that I don't wanna know, but but you definitely are still learning things and growing with them. And and that's important because, you know, the the minute that you turn that off or the minute you're not willing to learn from others and from your daughters specifically, that's gonna close off the relationship. And so it's really important to be able to keep that relationship open in that regard. I know you're a busy guy, and you've got a lot of things going on. You're an entrepreneur. You you have this network that you're doing as well. You're doing a lot of different things, and you've been doing this for quite a few years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:21]: So as you look at the life that you've had and all the different things that you have done, talk to me about balance and what you had to do, balance the things that you were doing outside of the house and what you were trying to be inside the house, to be that dad that you wanted to be.

Bruce Chamoff [00:08:40]: I'll be honest with you. I'm not the best at balancing, and I'm still learning that as I go through my life. Work life balance, I understand is absolutely important in anybody's life. So especially people who work. And I'll be the first to admit that I'm a workaholic. And at times when my daughter was growing up, there were times that I worked so hard that I did neglect her and I was always there for her. I mean, anytime she needed me, I I jumped and stopped what I was doing. But I always worked so hard, and there were times when I said to myself, I just have to stop what I'm doing right now and just be a dad and not be an entrepreneur and not be a workaholic.

Bruce Chamoff [00:09:20]: And it's it's hard because you're a workaholic for a reason, you know, it's just like an alcoholic, you cannot stop drinking alcohol that easily and workaholic is the same thing. So I learned to just cut myself off at a certain time. You know, when 5 o'clock came, I said, that's it. I'm done working. I know I have a lot of things to do. Still, I have a lot of unfinished projects that I wanna keep on working on. And it's not just about the work life balance. It's also for your own health and your own stress level.

Bruce Chamoff [00:09:49]: If you're a workaholic and you find it hard to stop being that way, my solution is to force yourself to just stop working at a certain time of the day. If you have to set an alarm, which is what I had to do, the alarm goes off and that's it. You stop working and you spend time with your family and that's it. So that's what I've been doing. And, you know, I'm in I'm now in my fifties. So the one thing that's actually in my advantage, like, if if you're in your if you're in the older generation, your circadian rhythm, which is your sleep cycle, shifts to an earlier time of the day, which makes it easy to stop working later on that day. So I used to go from to start working at like 8 o'clock in the morning to now I start working at 4:30 in the morning. And that's easy for me to do, to get up that early.

Bruce Chamoff [00:10:34]: But with that said, I also cannot work past 5 o'clock at night. So at that point, if a dad is in that particular age range, I would say probably 40 years in age of up and up, It's easy to get up earlier, to start working and stop working and then spend time with your family. So to me, I think that younger dads will have a hard time with the work life balance than older dads. That's my experience.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:00]: Now I know that I mentioned at the beginning that you're a podcaster. You run this network called The World Podcast Network. You've been podcasting for quite some time, and I am a podcaster. I'm a podcasting fan. And I know what drew me in to this genre. But you've been doing this for longer than I have. So talk to me about what drew you into podcasting from an early point and how that impacted you as an ad.

Bruce Chamoff [00:11:28]: When I was in college, I wanted to join the college radio station, and that was Kean University in Union, New Jersey, which at the time was called Kean College. And I graduated in 1988. I love heavy metal. I still do. And my daughter and I have seen a lot of hard rock and heavy metal concerts, which I'm so happy that she was into that music for a long time. And it also made us a little closer having the music connection together. And I wanted to play my favorite heavy metal music, but I couldn't get on to the radio station because it was booked. All the DJs the radio station was just full of DJs and there was no there were no openings.

Bruce Chamoff [00:12:07]: So life went on. I graduated college. I've got a I got a degree in marketing, and I got a couple of jobs. 2005 when everybody was buying the iPad, like, almost everybody had an iPad, and I realized podcasting was out there. I ignored it. And then I was in a bookstore and saw from Todd Cochran of the Blueberry Network, the book for introduction to podcasting. Like, oh, this is a real thing because there's a book here. I didn't think twice.

Bruce Chamoff [00:12:35]: I just didn't even look at it, and I just took it off the shelf. It was a shiny silver cover with green lettering. You can't miss that among other books. The artwork on the front cover was just there to grab your attention and it did. And I read that book literally within a week. And I'm like, I'm starting my podcast. And I did. And that's when I started my first podcast called the Fresh Music Series which is I finally got to be the DJ to play my music.

Bruce Chamoff [00:13:01]: Now I was on Long Island at the time and I went on to Craigslist and put in that I had a podcast. And And because I'm also a musician, I'm a songwriter, and I'm still putting music out. If anybody wants to check my music out on Spotify, it's just look up Bruce Chamble. So I wanted to promote my own music, but I'm like, I'm not gonna be selfish about this. Maybe I could get other podcasters to come on to my podcast. And I put that Craigslist ad out, and literally, I had about 10 bands saying, hey. Play my music. Play my music.

Bruce Chamoff [00:13:30]: Play my music. Okay. But you have to first email me that I have your permission that you're not gonna sue me in copyright infringement. And they said, yeah, you have my permission. I have it in writing. I went ahead and put people's music on my podcast and not once did I get sued for that. So I'm happy about that. And then I realized that there is something called the pod safe music directory started by Adam Curry of MTV and I started downloading all that music.

Bruce Chamoff [00:13:53]: But my main goal is to promote my own music and other local bands. And that's what I did. Being a web developer and a marketing visionary, I envisioned more than one podcast. And I figured maybe I should build a website. It wasn't called The Podcast Network yet, where I have multiple podcasts. I know there are other podcasters out there. So I built a website called the Long Island Podcast Network. And I called it a podcast network because I wanted to be like a radio network, a TV network, a network of podcasts.

Bruce Chamoff [00:14:27]: There was no podcast network out there yet, So I coined the term. And from there, 100 of podcast networks have sprung up all over the world now. But I went back on Craigslist and put an ad out there to the community and said, if you have a podcast, sign up. Here's the link. And I got 20 podcasts literally within 2 2 months. And then I had to expand the network. I got health, sports, technology, business. I mean, everybody was doing all types of podcasts.

Bruce Chamoff [00:14:55]: And then I got called by Newsday which is the biggest newspaper out there on Long Island. I'm like, do you wanna do an article on my network? I'm like, this is like huge. And they came to my house. They did a whole a whole photo shoot on me. I started the podcast network February of 2006, so exactly 18 years now. And then 11 months later in November, it came out. And I was, like, blown away. It was a it was a page and a half, and it's a huge network.

Bruce Chamoff [00:15:18]: There was a band called The Mondays that was founded by a friend of mine or fronted by a friend of mine named Ken Carmen. He joined the network and they're a pretty big alternative band. They're really talented rock band. And I played saxophone with them a few times and that's it. Like, he he told other people, people joined. So it's great. Now to answer your other question, how did this affect me as a dad and my relationship with my daughter? I just decided to get my daughter involved. So my daughter was how old was she? She was 4 or actually yeah.

Bruce Chamoff [00:15:48]: No. She was 3 at the time. And I'm like, you know what? Work life balance. If I'm gonna do this, I wanna get my daughter involved and I think that's another thing that my advice to dads are whatever you're doing, if you're a workaholic like me, find a way to incorporate your daughter into your work and make it fun because that's work life balance. Right? You don't it doesn't have to be just you. And here's a good example. When I was 8 years old, my father, he was a CPA. And when I was 8 years old, he was working very hard during tax season.

Bruce Chamoff [00:16:19]: IRS needs everybody's taxes filed by April 15th. So he would get bombarded. He would be working overnight and overnight and overnight and he decided to incorporate me into his business. So he had me doing filing at 8 years old. And that's a good example. It doesn't matter what you're in. I mean, if you're if you're a busy lawyer, then somehow you must have law firm, law forms, right, people fill out. Have your daughter come.

Bruce Chamoff [00:16:44]: Let her do some filing. Teach her early how to be an entrepreneur and find a way. And I got my daughter involved and it was just amazing. My daughter also and I, we we did have a podcast called the daddy and daughter podcast. It was only, like, 4 episodes, and it just it it didn't work after a while, but it's still out there on YouTube. So, no, that's what you gotta do.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:02]: It is what you have to do. And you have to find that not only for yourself, that niche for yourself. I mean, I run about 5 different podcast myself. I'm either hosting or producing, and each is just a little bit different. And it goes to that multi passionate aspect. I hear people talk about people being multi passionate and having those different things that are you're you're so passionate about. And and I guess for me, you you know, bringing your daughter in and having her involved right now, how is she involved with your podcasting network? And how is that framing what she wants to do with her life?

Bruce Chamoff [00:17:36]: My daughter is the maintenance manager of the World Podcast Network. We have grown so fast. We have over a 1000 podcasts that now we need to do maintenance every single day. And my daughter does the maintenance. She looks at the analytics because we give podcasters analytics. You can see your downloads and everything else. I mean, just like Buzzsprout and Anchor and Podbean, they have their analytics. We have analytics as well, and so does Spotify.

Bruce Chamoff [00:18:05]: So we keep data, like, we collect the data. And my daughter will look at the analytics, make sure that they're up to date, they're working well. Sometimes the podcasters, they don't like their analytics. So they say, well, why is this graphic high? Why is it low? And my daughter looks at that and she analyzes it, but she does other things too. Like, she'll she'll do some data entry for the podcast network. She'll run reports. She'll generate reports. And she has a whole admin screen and a collection of reports that she actually maintains.

Bruce Chamoff [00:18:35]: And she does a really good job with it. So I'm really very proud and to have her working for me. And the other thing too is when I work for my dad, and he passed away in 2005, so maybe he rest in peace. I feel like I'm giving back to my father by having my daughter work for me. So it's coming around full circle, and I love that aspect of it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:54]: Now have a go going from where you were to where you are today, where do you go from here?

Bruce Chamoff [00:19:00]: That's an interesting loaded question. I would have to say that we just keep on defining our mission and making our mission better and trying to help people. I mean, my mission is to help podcasters succeed in a lot of ways, growth, monetization, and just getting their message out, like, whatever the theme of their podcast is. And every podcast has a theme. The question is, are you reaching the right people? Are you reaching your target market? I mean, I'm a marketing guy, like I said, so I think in terms of target market and demographics and things like that. So, yeah, I think about how do I make The World Podcast Network better for the community? And how do I make The World Podcast Network help podcasters succeed? And I just sit down and plan out that goal and I build it. And then my team test it and we go back and forth with feedback and it's a cool thing, you know. That's why I keep going.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:51]: No. I love what you're doing and bringing podcasts together and being able to bring people together. Now podcasters are storytellers. And podcasts, to be honest, I mean, for anyone, are stories. And individuals that run podcasts love to tell stories or bring those stories out. As a father, you're a storyteller as well. And many times, fathers speak over the years, are oral tell storytellers in trying to help their daughters, help their kids in many different ways. How have you found that being a podcaster has influenced you as a storyteller, but also as a father in being able to better lead your own daughter in the ways of the world?

Bruce Chamoff [00:20:37]: Interesting question. I mean, I'm a public speaker. I have absolutely no problems telling anybody anything in public. And to me, the more people I speak in front of, the better. And most people are the opposite. Right? Nobody likes most people don't like public speaking, but I love it. And my daughter has actually traveled with me in a few to a few places when I've spoken at WordPress conferences or WordCamps. She's traveled with me to Cincinnati and I don't don't I think she's I forgot where else she traveled me to, but she saw me and she said that she's not really a public speaker.

Bruce Chamoff [00:21:12]: I don't think that she would get in front of people and speak at this moment in time. Maybe she'll change on that. But I really just love showing my daughter that I have no problem getting in front of a group of people and speaking. It's given me confidence. And she did tell me in Cincinnati that she was impressed with how I can just control an audience. I thought that was awesome.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:30]: Well, I really appreciate you sharing that. I think it's important and it's important to be able to see where you've been and where you are today and where you're going in the future. And that helps your own kids to be able to set a path for themselves. Now we all always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready? Very cool. Let's do it. In one word, what is fatherhood?

Bruce Chamoff [00:21:52]: I'll just call it joy.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:53]: When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Bruce Chamoff [00:21:58]: Around 2006 when I started coaching her soccer team.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:02]: And what did you find in that that made you really feel that way?

Bruce Chamoff [00:22:05]: Just the fact that my daughter and I connected in a particular activity that we could do together. I coached and she played. It was nice connection between the 2 of us. And also just the fact that, like I said before, we went to a lot of rock concerts together. I think my daughter and I have been to if I had to count, we've been to 6 concerts together, I think. And and that includes some pretty classic rock bands, like, we've been to the kids concert together too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:26]: Now the question is is did you dress up like the band when you were there with the paint face paint and everything?

Bruce Chamoff [00:22:32]: No. Not at all. But I did before like, I think in 1995, I did open up for Furley's Comet. So that was exciting. That was in New Jersey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:40]: That's awesome. Now if I was to talk to your daughter, how would she describe you as a dad?

Bruce Chamoff [00:22:45]: Hopefully, my daughter would describe me as a very caring dad and a very hardworking dad to make us successful and giving.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:53]: Now, who inspires you to be a better dad?

Bruce Chamoff [00:22:55]: My dad. That was an easy question.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:57]: Now you've given a number of piece of advice, a number of number of things that you've learned along the way that you've shared today. As we finish up, what's one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Bruce Chamoff [00:23:07]: As I mentioned, for the younger dads with younger kids, don't worry if they become teenagers and they stop talking to you. Just learn to accept it. Don't stress over it and know that that will go away when you become a little older and never stop loving them. No matter what they tell you, no matter how disobedient they are, just give them your heart and be patient with them and everything else will just fall into place.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:29]: Well, Bruce, I wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here. Now if people if people wanna find out more about you, your podcast network, etcetera, where should they go?

Bruce Chamoff [00:23:38]: You can look up Bruce Chamoff on all the social media. LinkedIn, mostly. I'm on Facebook just like everybody else or a lot of people. And I'm just starting to get on the TikTok, but you can always go on to the world podcast network at well, podcast dot network and send me a contact form message.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:55]: Well, again, Bruce, thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing your own journey as a father, and I wish you all the best.

Bruce Chamoff [00:24:00]: Thanks for having me, Chris. It was a lot of fun being on your podcast, so thank you so much. It's my pleasure too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:06]: If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong and powered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:04]: We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and be the world. Choose them. Be the best dad you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When Jesse Bradley discovered he was going to be a father to a daughter after having three sons, he knew this would bring a unique set of delights and challenges. Jesse emphasizes each child as a unique gift, advocating a tailored approach in fostering connections that affirm a daughter's persona, building confidence amidst the ever-present peer pressures.

**The Power of Presence and Words**

One-on-one interactions form the core of Jesse's parenting strategy, offering a safe space for his daughter to share her thoughts and feelings. He recognizes the formative power of a parent's words and presence, which serve as a bedrock for a child's development, especially before bed—a time both sacred and profound in the Bradley household.

**Positive Reinforcement**

In our podcast episode, Jesse shares personal experiences of affirming his daughter's worth and building her confidence, with a reminder to parents about the potency of positive reinforcement. His intentional interactions include daily prayer and reading sessions, maintaining an equitable balance between tenderness and honesty.

**Grappling with Challenges**

Jesse opens up about his insecurities in not understanding his daughter's world, from hair care to jewelry. He advises parents to lean into these differences and learn from their children, rather than maintaining a distance. Adjusting parenting methods to match the child's pace is also key, as Jesse demonstrates by embracing his daughter's composed approach to life.

**Cultivating Hope**

On the critical notion of hope, Jesse advocates for relational, habitual, and thoughtful practices to instill a strong sense of optimism in children. These practices are deeply relational, requiring attentiveness and intentional affirmations from parents.

**Wisdom for Fathers**

Jesse's advice encompasses being 'tough and tender,' encouraging dads to support their children's pursuits without trying to control them. He suggests a reflective approach to one's natural tendencies and emphasizes the significance of an honest and humble approach in parent-child relationships.

In our introspective conversation, Jesse Bradley's insights serve as a reminder that fatherhood is a continuous journey marked by growth, learning, and unconditional love. His experiences and guiding principles stand as a beacon for dads navigating the waters of raising daughters in a world filled with emotional and spiritual complexities.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:15]: Welcome back to Dads with Daughters where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. I've told you this before, and I'll tell you it again. You know, I'm a father of 2. My kids are in their teenage years and in college. Your kids are gonna be at different places, but we all are on that journey together as we raise our daughters to be those strong, independent women that we want for them to be successful and to find that path for themselves. It's not always going to be easy.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:53]: The journey is not always going to be a straight line, But it is something that we all go through. And it is so important that we are able to have these conversations and that you can learn and grow from the conversations and the people that we have here every week. I love being able to bring you different people, be people with different perspectives, different fathers, mothers, other people with resources that can help you on this journey, that can help you to make that journey just a little bit easier because you do not have to do this alone. I've said that before and I'll say it again. Fatherhood does not have to be a solo experience. Sometimes it may feel that way. Sometimes you may feel like it should be that way, but it doesn't have to be that way, and it shouldn't be that way. There are so many dads that are out there right next to you, your next door neighbors, the people around you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:45]: And by reaching out, by talking, by sharing, by being a little vulnerable Yes, I said the v word, vulnerable. You can definitely do so much to be able to help yourself to be that dad that you wanna be. Today, we've got another great guest with us. Jesse Bradley is with us today, and Jesse is a speaker. He's an author. He is the lead pastor of of Grace Community Church, and we're gonna be talking to him about being a father of 4, as well as the, some of the things that he does on a daily basis and working with dads, but also working with just people in general. And I'm really excited to be able to have him here and talk about his own experience. Jesse, thanks so much for being here today.

Jesse Bradley [00:02:26]: Christopher, it's an honor to join you. I've been looking forward to this. Thanks for all you do to encourage and to equip dads and really parents because we need help. We really do. I'm not joining you as a guest as someone who has all the answers or has it together. We're lifelong learners and parenting is truly an adventure. But we can encourage each other, I think through stories, through things that are working in one home are probably gonna work well in another home. And thank you for connecting dads too.

Jesse Bradley [00:02:55]: Because like you said, the temptation I think is to drift, to be isolated. And with isolation, that's never the isolated. And with isolation, that's never the best spot to be. And we wanna come together and you've created community. So thanks for all you do. You've been very dedicated and devoted, and we appreciate it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:10]: Well, I really appreciate you saying that. Now first and foremost, one of the things I love doing is I wanna turn the clock back in time. And I know you've got 4 kids, you've got one daughter, 3 sons, and your daughter's 13 now. So I wanna go back, let's say 14 years. I wanna go back to the very beginning when you found out that you were going to be a dad to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Jesse Bradley [00:03:29]: Well, you know, that's an interesting story because we had had 2 boys. We'd also had 3 miscarriages. So we had really been on a roller coaster ride, and that helped us realize that every child is a gift. I believe that with all my heart. Every child is unique, wonderfully made, and truly a gift. Now with our 3rd child, when we showed up to find out, is it going to be a boy or a girl? The assistant who had the view of the picture, the first words out of her mouth were, oh, boy. And that's not probably what you wanna say when it's gonna be a girl because literally she looked at the picture and said, oh, boy. And my mind went to, well, here comes boy number 3.

Jesse Bradley [00:04:11]: And then a few seconds later, she said, you're gonna have a girl. And I was like, wait, what? So it was a gender reveal that went one direction, faked us out, head fake, and then we came back and a girl. I knew this was gonna be a really different experience than the boys. Of course, there's a lot of commonalities, but I also knew this would balance our home a little more. With 3 boys right now and a girl, we were intentional to get a girl dog. Just, you know, trying to balance out the home a little bit. But I was excited. My wife had a name in mind, and it just seemed to come together well.

Jesse Bradley [00:04:48]: And such a blessing. I'm so grateful for Lily.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:51]: Now each child is unique. You've got 4 kids, and you have to take that time, spend that time to connect on an individual level. When you have 4 kids and you have a daughter, you have 3 sons, what are you doing to make those unique bonds with your kids and especially the bond that you want to have with your daughter?

Jesse Bradley [00:05:11]: That's a great question. It's easy to always be in a group, and you really need that one on one time. I like the phrase be intentional because a lot of times your child might not come to you and share everything they need, and they're hoping that you're going to pursue them. And that time for me that's been consistent is before bed. I feel like there's something about that last hour where people are a little more open, honest, share feelings, let their guard down, and that's been consistent for us and we do a couple different things during that time, but sometimes it's playful. We started playing catch with one of her stuffed animals that's round. And then we started keeping score. And eventually, what's our record? And we made it up to a couple hundred, but that was just kind of a fun thing we started doing.

Jesse Bradley [00:06:00]: And I thought, okay, my daughter isn't into sports like I was, and that's okay. In fact, she's the exact opposite. I wanted to do sports with teams, scores, balls. She doesn't want anything to do with stress, competition. Like, she would prefer to just go for a run, enjoy a run, or a hike, or something, swimming. She would just swim for hours. She doesn't wanna race, but she would just be in the water for hours. She likes to swim, learn how to swim.

Jesse Bradley [00:06:28]: So we're very opposite when it comes to sports. And this is just one of those playful things we did and started to she has a lot of stuffed animals, and I don't even know how we started. But, she learned to catch through that. And that was one thing we did. But more than that, during those times together, I listened to her how she's doing. I try to speak a lot of words of affirmation because especially middle school and even slightly before that, there's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of peer pressure. Sometimes kids tear each other down.

Jesse Bradley [00:07:00]: Are you cool enough? How do you look? Do you fit in? And they're bombarded. And sometimes by the end of the day, they can just feel like I don't measure up and you know who I am is just not gonna work. And I try to come in with that voice of affirmation. And let me tell you, children need the affirmation. If you have a critical spirit and you're just always finding the areas that, you know, you don't think they're doing well and you lead with that and you overemphasize that, it tears them down on the inside. Yes. We do need to hold them accountable on some areas and bring out the best in some areas, but a lot of it is the affirmation. And I can just see there's a security with dad's voice.

Jesse Bradley [00:07:42]: When I see things, and I'm not saying things just to flatter. I'm not saying things that are half true. Like, sincerely, what I see in her, it's so wonderful. And I put words on it. I don't just have that thought, but I put words on it. It builds up a security for her. And I think what it does is give her confidence that she doesn't have to chase after everything that her peers are chasing after. And she really is one of our children who has seen through the games and seen through some of the, you know, emptiness of just trying to be cool.

Jesse Bradley [00:08:18]: And there's been a security and a confidence that she's had. And I I think that the affirmation of parents on her character, on her effort, on her creativity, on her kindness, on her intelligence, like, just all the wide range, you know, her face. One of the things we do before bedtime is is just a short time of prayer, or we like to read. Now we've read read a lot of different stories, but we also read, like, the Bible, and we wanna build her up. And when I think about parenting in that time, and I know I'm focusing on that time before bed, but that's been daily for as long as I can remember. Since she was just an infant, it's every night we're there in that time. And sometimes it's my wife and I. Sometimes it's just me.

Jesse Bradley [00:09:06]: Sometimes it's just my wife and the longer one. Both parents are there, but it's just one will stay longer. But that is intentional with every kid. And 1 on 1, that's where they really they don't have to look around and say, okay. Are my siblings listening? What are they gonna think of me? They just pour out their heart. And when they feel safe, create that safe environment where they can talk to you about anything. And if you start that early on, then when the teenage years come, that's already part of the culture and the conversation. They're just gonna keep coming with that.

Jesse Bradley [00:09:37]: And when they do, that's a gift. When they share their heart with you, that's a gift. And by being there to listen, sometimes it's not so much what I say, although the affirmation's important. It's just creating that safe place and listening. And as she starts to share about what she's thinking and feeling, just listening to understand, asking questions, drawing her out, She's a little more introverted than we have 2 extroverts, 2 introverts. And the extroverts just start to talk. And with those extroverts, you know exactly where they are. But the introverts, you have to kinda stop, ask them a question, give them time to think, ask them another question.

Jesse Bradley [00:10:13]: I'm an extrovert, so that's not as natural as it should be. I think it's important to be quick to listen, slow to speak. I'm often the opposite. I'm quick to speak, slow to listen. So I've got to turn it down, ask questions, be silent, and then ask more questions. I've heard it said, you ask how someone feels. Say, how do you feel? And then you say, well, how do you feel about that? And then you say, well, what are your thoughts on that? You might have to ask a couple times to go deep. But once you create that trust, and all relationships come down to trust.

Jesse Bradley [00:10:43]: And with your kids, do they really trust you? And when the trust is there, they open up and they share. And when they do that, that's a gift. And how you respond is important. And I love it that, you know, my daughter has said, I feel like I can, you know, talk about anything. That doesn't mean that she doesn't sometimes try to keep things secret or, like, we have a perfect relationship, but there's a trust that's deep and she shares deeply. One of the most precious gifts she gave me is a little coupon and she said, dad, this coupon is for infinite number of times coming into my room. And I mean, even this week, I got that years ago. It's at my desk.

Jesse Bradley [00:11:25]: You know, this coupon's good for infinite visits to my room. Anytime, any and I come into her room and I'll say, well, Lilz, I just came in today because, well, you gave me that coupon for infinite visits. So I'm coming in for a visit and it's kind of playful at this point, but it's so sweet. It's so dear. And but we like to joke around and she has the way the heat is distributed in our house, it's not equal. And she has the warmest room in the house. And in the winter months, you know, in Seattle where there's a lot of rain and so forth, and I just come in there. I'm like, Lils.

Jesse Bradley [00:12:01]: And she'll kind of say, do you just come in because I'm a warm room or do you wanna talk to me? You know, we we just play around with that kind of stuff, but we keep it light, we keep it fun, but then we also go deep. It's a both and. And I think a both and is really good. When you can laugh, you can cry, you can share your hurts, you can share what you're excited about, you can pray. Like, the wide range, that is rich. And I know for me, and I'll let you talk a little bit because I just got into these sweet times with my daughter. But when I think about being a dad, yes, there's protection. Yes, there's provision.

Jesse Bradley [00:12:39]: Yes, there's the physical activity we do. And there's a lot of different components. But for me, what's close to my heart is the emotional connection and also the spiritual connection. And I think when I consider the fullness of fatherhood, like, how am I involved in all the different parts of her life to build her up, to encourage her? And I think a lot of times, it's when that emotional or spiritual connection happens that we feel the closest. And I like to go there. And that probably ties in, because parenting, I think, really starts when you're a kid, and it's your experiences with your parents, and that shapes you. And you either see things you wanna imitate or you see things that weren't there and you really wanna bring. And I think, for me, it's all connected.

Jesse Bradley [00:13:28]: And I love the opportunity to have those times with my daughter. We almost always leave grateful. We leave appreciating each other. We leave those times just feeling joyful. Like, there's a smile, there's a laugh, and it's sweet.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:44]: I appreciate you sharing that. Now I know that in talking to a lot of different dads, there are sometimes some fear that comes with having a daughter, raising a daughter, and every person's fear is a little bit different. What would you say has been your biggest fear in raising a daughter?

Jesse Bradley [00:14:01]: That's a great question. I would say a couple of aspects. 1 you're right is that I know what it's like to be a boy. I don't know what it's like to be a girl. And when you have a child that's the opposite gender, for example, her hair. I don't know how I don't even have any hair right now. But, like, how do I help her with her hair as a kid? You know? And it's like, oh, dad. That's too hard on my hair, the the snarls and trying to get that worked out.

Jesse Bradley [00:14:28]: And how do I talk about jewelry? How do I talk about painting your nails? How do I talk about things that I just wasn't into and I didn't do? And so she's already different in terms of gender, and then she's different in terms of she loves to read. She will go through book after book after book after book. When I was a kid, I felt like reading was very slow. I knew it was good, but that was challenging. She loves to read. She loves to draw. I joked with her that you passed me up at about age 5. You know, she could draw a better picture than I could as an adult.

Jesse Bradley [00:15:06]: She's so talented as an artist and her creativity. And I was terrible at drawing. I still am terrible. So when you start adding all these different things up, it can touch on the insecurities that I have as a dad. Or can I really be a great dad if her talents are different, her interest is different, her gender is different, like, all these things are different? How am I going to support her well? These are not my areas of expertise, right? Like, if she wants to talk about a, b and c, I can do that. But she's into a lot of things that I don't know much about. So here's I think a key is don't stay distant in those areas. It's okay that I'm much lower than her, or I don't know much.

Jesse Bradley [00:15:52]: Like, when she liked Pokemon as a kid, or she you know, it's like, I don't know anything about Pokemon. Like, Warrior Cats, I don't know anything about that series. But so just, I own it that I don't know anything. Okay. Lils, teach me a little bit about this. And then we turned it into a fun game because with warrior cats, it's like, oh, they all have 2 word names. And so I would say, Lilz, like, would this be a good word? Like thunderpaw, you know, or something like that. And it it just got to be playful.

Jesse Bradley [00:16:24]: So that's that's one is realizing that we have a lot of differences, but don't let those differences become a distance where I'm not entering in. And it's okay to come in with a lot of questions and learning and just be playful with it. I think the other thing for me that I found internally is that I naturally wanna protect her a little more. Now sometimes that's good, probably sometimes it's not as good. But with, like, let's say boys start to have an interest in her, I wanna protect her. Like, that's my daughter. Like, something's awakened in me that even more than the boy is, not that it should be, but, you know, she can stand on her own. She's strong, but I feel an extra, that's my daughter.

Jesse Bradley [00:17:08]: I'm gonna protect her. And, you know, any boys that come around or any threats or someone's picking on her, like, I feel like I'm gonna enter right in on that. So, those are, you know, some differences I probably noticed. But with the first two boys, they are up lots of energy. Like they want to do things. They want to go, go, go. And I had to get them to a park early in the morning and it felt like a park a day, you know, at elementary school. Like we we've got to get the energy out quickly.

Jesse Bradley [00:17:36]: And her pace was a little different. She moves slower. She likes to sleep in. She wants to talk. She wants to start maybe more relationally, whereas the boys are looking for something physical and just picking up on these differences. I they weren't, like, planned ahead of time, but it was like, okay, this is gonna be a different rhythm with her. And it almost felt easier in some ways, because I don't know how to describe it exactly, but I just felt like we were being together. We were just being, and that was really, really good.

Jesse Bradley [00:18:08]: Whereas maybe the boys, it was a little more on like, so what are we gonna do? What are we doing? And she could just sit in that being for longer. And that was another thing I picked up on early on. So those are some initial thoughts, but you're right. It was different. And, of course, it's not just gender, but, you know, different kids have different interests and passions and pace and all of that. But, yes, it was different.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:31]: Now, I know that you have a new book called The Power of 2nd Sight, How to Live with Indestructible Hope. And I know that hope is something that you talked to a lot of people about, not only within your church but just in speaking and and working with people. And sometimes with kids, under helping them understand hope, helping them understand what that means and how that impacts their lives may not be always tangible.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:01]: So talk to me about hope. And how are you working with your own kids? How are you working with other people to help them to better work with their kids, to understand the power of having hope and how to help their kids to kind of hone that hope within their life.

Jesse Bradley [00:19:21]: Yes. Thank you for bringing up the topic of hope. It's really vital. Hope is essential. Hope is that confident and joyful trust in someone or something. When people have hope they feel alive, they're motivated. And what we see now, I looked at a recent study at UCLA that there's a 5th of high school students that are thinking about suicide. I I mean, we live in a time, especially the last few years since the pandemic, where there are so many people that are feeling hopeless.

Jesse Bradley [00:19:49]: I remember the Census Bureau said 48% of Americans feel hopeless, less, and our kids are struggling with that. It's a generation with a lot of technology, but not always a lot of connection. And how do we come alongside kids and build up hope? Hope, it's linked to a lot of different things. I like to say hope is available to everyone. This is not just vague hope or hope that randomly comes and goes, but hope is relational. It's tied to your quality of your relationships. I think that's what parents, friends, God, I think that relational aspect's important. Also, hope is habitual.

Jesse Bradley [00:20:29]: There's habits you can cultivate. So when we get together before bedtime, that's a hope time together. Right? When we have certain things we do together that are positive and their habits ingrained, they're worked into our schedules intentionally. Those bring hope. So hope can increase, hope can decrease. And you can tell when someone has hope. You can see it in their eyes. Some people are alive, and there's almost a fire in their eyes, and some people are glazed over in despair.

Jesse Bradley [00:20:57]: And we need to come alongside kids and help them discover hope. And I think that can happen, in it starts with a parent and I think it relates to our our thoughts. I say the power of the second thought is that you can replace the negative first thought. Because we have thousands of first thoughts every day. And how do you replace it with an intentional second thought? Let's say you're parenting and the kids are pushing your buttons, and you're getting really frustrated. You might feel like, oh, I don't wanna be around these kids. And you have these thoughts about your kids that are not good. Right? And what can you do? Intention replace it with a second thought.

Jesse Bradley [00:21:37]: Where we started today, my child is a gift. My child is so important to me. Or when you start to distance from your kid, you need to have that second thought. Like, the most important thing is my child needs to feel connected. And you go back to that connection and you reconnect. My child's more important than my phone. My child's more important than my job. My child's more important than my own hobby right now.

Jesse Bradley [00:22:01]: And those intentional thoughts, they redirect us and we remember our priorities. We get the right perspective and we have hope and then hope starts to flow out of those thoughts. Well, a child has a lot of thoughts and during the day. And there's gonna be a lot of thoughts running through their mind. And those negative thoughts when they recognize those and start to replace those. And as a parent, you provide thoughts that are true and you build up your child. I think parenting is very conversational. There are intentional times.

Jesse Bradley [00:22:35]: Like, I love the time my daughter and I went to the daddy daughter dance. You know, we celebrate that with a picture. And, you know, she's drawn a picture from the actual picture. We've gone to New York City together and including her in those longer extended times where it's just my daughter and I. Those are amazing. During those times, I want to be saying things that bring hope to her. And when she starts to hear those, then she'll start to believe those more. She'll start to own those and realize those.

Jesse Bradley [00:23:04]: And when I talk about how special she is, every child's different. For my daughter, words of affirmation are very important. And when I start to bring those, now she has those and she's hearing that. And that's gonna help her what she believes and what she believes about herself, what she believes about her talents, and all those things are connected to hope. Affirmation, I think, is one of the ways that I can bring hope to my daughter. And when that foundation is strong, when she knows that God loves her, mom loves her, dad loves her, she knows these are her talents. She knows, that she is special in these ways. When all those things start to come together, there is a foundation of hope that is solid.

Jesse Bradley [00:23:56]: And it's like that house on the rock and not the sand. And that's what kids need today. Can they do it all themselves? That's a tall order. But who has more influence than parents? I like to look at it this way. There's a lot of things I do that a 100 other people can do. If I'm not pastor Grace Community Church, there'll be a 100 resumes in tomorrow. During the day, there are all kinds of things. There's only one person that can be Lily's dad.

Jesse Bradley [00:24:26]: Only one. And if you're the only one that can play any given role in life, right, I'm the only one that can be Laurie's husband. I'm the only one that can be Joel's dad. Like, if you're the only one that can, that tells you, like, this role is incredibly significant. And I don't think anyone shapes hope more in a child's mind and heart than the parent. And yes, the parent has an incredible privilege, an incredible opportunity to build up hope. And we do that, you know, in a number of ways. But notice your child because this is relational.

Jesse Bradley [00:25:05]: It's not a formula. Yes. I think there's some best practices. I think the words you say, their soul, the affirmations you give, the connection you have, the way you listen, recognizing their strengths, all those things build hope. And that voice of a parent, I remember our very first child, and his name's Joel. When he was born, he was fussing and came out screaming and fussing, and the doctors could not get him to settle down. And then I walked over to where he was, and I just said, Joel, it's okay. And just like that, everything calmed down.

Jesse Bradley [00:25:43]: He was fine going forward. And I realized in that moment the power of a parent's voice. So my encouragement to dads is just check your tone, check your words, check your affirmations, and realize that you're a hope leader. You're the one that's gonna lead your child to more hope and that you bring that in that role right there. It's a spot where no one else can fill. No one else has the same influence and be intentional. And it's worth really maybe reading for some. The Power of Second Thought is a book I wrote, but there's so many good resources.

Jesse Bradley [00:26:19]: And I've got some other ones on jessebradley.org that talk about how to interact with children and build that hope. But my encouragement to you is start with your listening and start with your words. Start with your time. And when you invest the time, it's quality time, you choose your words that bring hope and you listen. And that combination right there, when a child feels heard and loved, and they have truth statements that they can hold on to that are solid, that's a hope foundation. It's so much more than a feeling, and you can help your child have a solid foundation of hope.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:54]: Now going beyond helping your child to find to have that solid foundation of hope, many times in a father's life, a man's life, there will be things that will rock that foundation, that will challenge them in many ways and may shatter the hope that they have, the hope that they have as a father, the hope that they have as a as a man. And what do you say to those people, The people that are listening and that are losing hope for themselves about what they're seeing in their own family, that what they're seeing in the relationships that they have, let's say, with their daughter. What are you saying to them to be able to either regain that hope or move back toward a pathway to be able to have hope in their life?

Jesse Bradley [00:27:41]: So great insight, Christopher, because how we're doing is directly related to how we parent, and all of us, every day, every year, hopefully, we're growing, We're learning. We're healing. There's restoration. Personally, I think of 2 times during my life that were significant. 1 is going off to Dartmouth College and having success on the outside, but emptiness on the inside. And I'll tell you, you know, I was in an Ivy League school getting good grades, had a lot of friends. We won the Ivy League title for soccer, and I couldn't figure out what's happening on the inside. Why do I feel so empty? And I like to say there's the outside story.

Jesse Bradley [00:28:17]: There's the inside story. People see the outside story like on social media. You post some pictures, they see you at work, they have a a sense of who you are. But the inside story, people might not know what's really going on. Now your child might have a sense of it. But for me, at that time with that emptiness, I took a class. It was introduction to world religions. I read the Bible for the first time.

Jesse Bradley [00:28:38]: I started to learn about this is relationship, not religion. I was an atheist. In my family, Baskin Robbins, 31 flavors. We love each other. We're very close. A lot of different views and beliefs, and we have great conversations. But for me, I reached a point where I went from thinking there's no God out there to there's a personal God who loves me. And that is like an anchor for the soul.

Jesse Bradley [00:29:00]: And all of a sudden I, on the inside, felt this joy I'd never felt. I felt like I'm not alone. Anxiety went down. Like, there were just so many shifts that happened through that. So faith is one thing for everyone to really consider. And, of course, as a parent, you might be thinking, what do you want to pass along to your children? They're gonna make their own decisions. But how do you want to introduce them to the spiritual life or to faith or talking about God? That's an important consideration as a parent, and you might think back to your own childhood. Again, maybe some things you saw and didn't like in church and you wanted them to stay away from those or some things were really valuable and foundational for you that you wanna pass along.

Jesse Bradley [00:29:43]: And that can be a great gift for a child. Also for me, I played professional soccer and then there was tragedy. In Africa, I took a prescribed medication to prevent malaria, built up toxic levels in my system. I was fighting for my life for a year, and it took 10 years to fully recover. And during those dark moments, sometimes the greatest experiences can come out of those painful times. And for me, one of the shifts that I needed to make is that I had a performance based identity. And I was always thinking, what can I do better? How do I do it better? And my sense of worth and value was linked to my performance. And that wasn't challenged until I physically couldn't do anything.

Jesse Bradley [00:30:24]: And at that point, I had to make a shift because if you're performance based identity, you're going to be on a roller coaster ride of pride and shame, inflated, deflated, And ultimately, you're gonna pass it on to your kids. And yes, it was positive in terms of my athletics and my academics. But when my parents got divorced at age 7, that was something that was so deep and painful and I couldn't control that I looked at life and thought, well, what can I do? And how can I do it better? And I didn't really enter in emotionally or grieve, but instead I tried to achieve. And you can't achieve everything in life. You can't if your identity is linked to achievement, it's a cruel trap. And I never realized that until my twenties. And that shift right there freed me to a grace based identity, and I'm already loved. And that was one that was so profound and hit on so many levels.

Jesse Bradley [00:31:16]: And I highlight these things to say we're growing. And as an adult, I continue to grow. There's shifts I make with gratitude, where I'm intentional. I call it a gritty gratitude, giving thanks when you don't feel like it. You know, that's a habit. But it's an important one. I was someone who fought emotions, didn't wanna enter in. I thought grieving.

Jesse Bradley [00:31:38]: Who wants to do that? That's not fun. And and I tried to avoid that. And maybe it's grown up in Midwest. Maybe it's my family. Maybe it's me personally. But I had to learn how to go there. And I'll tell you, maybe that's if you're listening to it and you're a dad, maybe that's something that is still new to you. But how important is that as a dad to identify how I'm feeling, to be able to talk about it, share it, work through it, receive healing and that process right there.

Jesse Bradley [00:32:08]: See, if my focus or my approach to emotions is that you just keep them all away and you stuff them and you put them in the trunk. Well, then what am I gonna bring to my daughter when she has emotions? Like, am I gonna coach her to say, no, you can't feel those. And and I'm gonna try to solve all the time right away. And I'm gonna try to compartmentalize. And I'm gonna try to stuff it. It's like, no, that's gonna backfire. So I had to figure out how to work through my own emotions and not be in denial. And that might sound simple as a concept, but I'm telling you practically, I didn't know in prayer how to give my burdens to God.

Jesse Bradley [00:32:49]: I didn't know how to let people in. I had a view of God that He's only interested in things that are going well. He doesn't want to come into my, you know, doubts or my despair. And when I started to let people in and and receive that love, and when I started to work through my emotions, it brought a level of health personally for me, but then also changed my parenting because now I can help my kids with the emotional side of life. And we call it big feelings. We all have big feelings. So what are you gonna do when you feel angry? How are you gonna handle it? I can't take my kids to where I don't go personally. So if I don't know how to work through anger, then how am I gonna guide my kids? If I don't know how to work through grief and sadness, how am I gonna guide my kids? And I think that combination of that transparency, when I'm transparent, vulnerable, like you said, with my kids, and they can see that, you know, in an age appropriate way, And then I can share how that affects me, but then how I respond and what's true about that, but then also how I walk through that.

Jesse Bradley [00:33:56]: When I can do that with my kids, now that's gonna set them up for success, and they're gonna have that coaching in a way through their own emotions. And so as a parent, don't stop growing and then help your kids to walk through the intense challenges emotionally, spiritually and relationally. That to me, that section right there in life where it's emotional, it's relational, it's spiritual, that intersection, a lot of parents don't go there. And I can't tell you how valuable it is to go there. And I didn't have that a lot of times as a kid, but that's maybe create a passion for me as a parent. That's what I wanna help my kids navigate. That space right there. And so that's a longer answer, but I'm so glad you really touched on it because if we think parenting is just answers for a program, we've missed it.

Jesse Bradley [00:34:53]: We are human beings and we are intellectual, emotional, relational, spiritual. And the more of that fullness that comes in personally as you grow and then you connect with your kids and you share that together, that's the richness of life right there and the richness of parenting.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:11]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where we ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Jesse Bradley [00:35:18]: Right on. Let's go. Christopher, I like the way you do this.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:21]: In one word, what is fatherhood?

Jesse Bradley [00:35:23]: It's love because I don't think there's anything greater in this world. I don't think there's a close second. It's love. And what they need more than anything is your love. Yes. Love does include truth. Love has setting good limits and boundaries and accountability and all that. But deep down, does your child know that they are loved and how loved they are? There's something about kids that pick up on that.

Jesse Bradley [00:35:46]: And if they feel second rate, they just know where love's coming from. And that's the most important thing you can bring, authentic love.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:54]: Now when was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Jesse Bradley [00:35:59]: Wow. I guess in some ways I feel like this is a marathon. And so it's too early to celebrate because I'm going to be her dad all my days. And I don't think being a parent stops at age 18. I mean, for some kids, they certainly want more and need more beyond that. But what does success look like? How do I measure that? That's a great question. And that's a deep question. I've said before in this conversation that she enjoys spending time with me.

Jesse Bradley [00:36:29]: She feels a deep connection with me. She also can talk about anything with me. Those are maybe milestones. Those are things to celebrate. And I've heard it said this way. Here's the road trip test. Would you like to get in the car and take a road trip across the country and then come back with someone? And I would say this, I think both my daughter and myself, if we said, should we do a road trip across the country together? We both said, like, yeah, let's do it. And that enjoyment of each other, I can just see that look in her eyes.

Jesse Bradley [00:37:05]: It's just like that endearing tone. She's like, Oh, dad. We I do dad jokes and it's a fine line between dad jokes and dud jokes. But just that in her voice, that tenderness, that look in her eye, that fun we have together, and we both just really enjoy each other.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:21]: Now, if I was to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad?

Jesse Bradley [00:37:26]: Well, that's a great question too. We should almost include them and bring them in for that one. It might embarrass me. There's a phrase, yum, you're embarrassing me, and that's playful. But it's like, if I ever embarrassed them, they can just say yum and we don't have to give you a long discussion. You know, it's just yum. So they might have some funny ones with me. My daughter likes to poke fun.

Jesse Bradley [00:37:47]: Like, I like Greek yogurt, and she thinks it's the worst smell in the world. So, you know, so you might say dad likes Greek yogurt. So point to some of the idiosyncrasies. I'm bald, so I probably wear, you know, a hat more often and to stay warm. But I think my daughter would say that I'm passionate about Jesus. That the ultimate compliment, I'm thinking back of the ultimate compliment is is she would say, dad, I wanna marry someone just like you. You know? Dad, I wanna find someone just like you. And so I think she feels like I'm a good conversationalist.

Jesse Bradley [00:38:20]: There's the overall how I treat people and my faith and that I'm the same person, whether I'm at home and no one's around or, you know, I'm out in public. I think those are the things she might highlight. But goofball. I'm probably a goofball more at home than I am professionally. So she enjoys that side of it. And, yeah. When she's thinking I wanna date or marry someone that's like you, dad. It's like, what better, you know? Could could you celebrate than that? So, sports, playful, goofy, fun to talk to, loves people, that kind of stuff.

Jesse Bradley [00:38:56]: That's probably what she'd say.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:57]: Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Jesse Bradley [00:39:00]: Overall, I think it starts with me. I say God, my heavenly father, and then, like, how does he treat me? And that really becomes the basis of how I treat other people. Like, God's forgiving. God's patient. God's kind. And I I know there's mentors, and I've had a lot of them. Seen it. My one guy, Doug, it was like I remember thinking, okay, watch him interact with his kids.

Jesse Bradley [00:39:25]: Like, he loves them so incredibly much. It was Saturdays were pancake Saturdays with dad. And, you know, he was just one of those guys that without even trying it, it wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna mentor you here. But I saw how demanding his work was. And then I saw what he's like at home. And the people that inspire me most are the ones that are doing it behind the scenes when no one's looking, they're doing it. No, one's covering their story. They're doing it and they're heroes.

Jesse Bradley [00:39:53]: And they're doing it consistent. They're doing it on a daily basis. They're doing it in a sacrificial way. They're doing it in a genuine way, and they know how important parenting is. They know how important their kids are. And I'm constantly challenged by that because my work is demanding, and I gotta be careful not to bring leftovers home. And it's like I've given all my best at work, and now I'm just, well, dad doesn't have much left. That's easy for me to fall into that trap.

Jesse Bradley [00:40:18]: But it's the dads that I've gotten a glimpse of behind the scenes. And no one else really sees it. And it's not the spectacular. It's more, again, of the consistent. And they show up the same way, non anxious presence. They're having fun with their kids. They've created some ways to make memories together. Those are the ones, and I don't have that down.

Jesse Bradley [00:40:42]: I miss out on opportunities. I'll just say that, and then I'm aware of those. So I have to really be intentional. Now Now

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:59]: you've given a lot of piece of advice today, a lot of things for all of us to think about as fathers and how we find hope in our worlds around us, how we instill that hope to our kids. But just in general, the experiences that you've had and things that have worked and things that you've been challenged with. As you think about dads out there, all dads that that are out there, what's one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every father?

Jesse Bradley [00:41:22]: On the one hand, I would say don't try to be too controlling. And all my kids have been very different than me. And I realized early on, if I try to make them just like me or my dreams for them, my goals for them, it's just not I was up at about 2 o'clock with 1 of them talking about online business because they're so motivated to try to figure all that out. Like, I personally don't have any interest in online business. But rather than try to put a ton of limits and try to redirect or try to say this isn't as good, like, you've got to get excited about what they're excited about in the way that they're bent, their personality, their passion, their talents, like don't try to over control that. So here's, I guess, a summary. Tender and tough. Know when to be tender.

Jesse Bradley [00:42:12]: Know when to be tough. And I find that the dads that are trying to be over controlling, it's like on the sidelines. It's embarrassing how they're talking to the referee, like, after the games, like, what they say to their kids. Like, I almost feel like they're living vicariously. Does the kid even enjoy that sport? It's like, no, no, no. The tough, being tough as a dad is not controlling your kids. You've gotta loosen up that grip and let them be who they're designed to be. I like to say, ultimately, my kids are not mine, they're gods, and that helps actually bring freedom that I don't have to try to call all the shots in their lives.

Jesse Bradley [00:42:47]: But instead, how do I set them up for success? And then the tenderness. There's gonna be some really incredibly important times to be tender, and the kids are gonna need it. And if you're always strong and harsh with them, they're not gonna grow and develop. They're gonna resent you. So when to be tough, when to be tender, that figuring that out right there is incredibly important. And I would say just notice during the week, like there might be some times when you're way too soft and lenient. You kinda know your own bent. Right? And if you just let them have endless devices, I mean, that's easy for me sometimes hey, let's talk about physical activity.

Jesse Bradley [00:43:30]: Let's talk about exercise. Let's drop hey, let's talk about physical activity. Let's talk about exercise. Let's drop that phone and let's go do it. So tender and tough, my encouragement is just to notice your patterns, which you naturally do. And there's probably some areas where you're either being tender or tough when you should be the opposite. And don't just do what comes natural. Don't just do what your parents did.

Jesse Bradley [00:43:56]: You've got to make some shifts so that tender and tough are played out really well. And that, I think, is is really key. Another combination is honest and humble. Be honest and be humble with the kids. Bring love and bring truth. That combination. These are fruitful as parents. When you're honest and humble, when you bring the truth in love, when you know when to be tender, when to be tough, those are the things that I kinda come back to and just keep checking all the time.

Jesse Bradley [00:44:26]: How am I doing in these areas? And that's what helps me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:30]: Well, Jesse, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here, for sharing your story. If people wanna find out more about you, where should they go?

Jesse Bradley [00:44:36]: The website, jessebradley.org, a lot of parenting resources there. So you can check that out. They're all free. And then on social media, Jesse j Bradley, love to connect with anybody, hear how you're doing, and let's keep learning together.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:48]: Again, Jesse, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your journey today, for sharing the highs, the lows, and everything in between, and I wish you all the best.

Jesse Bradley [00:44:57]: Christopher, you love dads and you love daughters, and it shows. We appreciate it. You are giving so much to us. So keep up the good work. Don't slow down. And thank you for the community that you continue to build.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:10]: If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong and power daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:46:08]: We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast, the time goes by just like a the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. You're the best dad you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Fatherhood Insider: A Gateway to Enhanced Paternal Engagement

Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes fathers to explore the Fatherhood Insider, a hub designed for paternal growth. Emphasizing the importance of active fatherhood, he encourages dads to utilize resources such as course libraries, forums, and expert advice with the singular goal of honing their fathering skills.

Joe Lee's Remarkable Transition: From Monotony to Spontaneity

Guest Joe Lee, a dedicated father, discusses his structured life and the unique activities he enjoys with his daughter. Be it practicing Taekwondo, computer learning sessions, or ice skating adventures, Joe underscores the essence of breaking routine and imbuing life with spontaneous moments.

An Inspirational Journey from an Entrepreneur to Author

Joe Lee shares his motivations for penning 'Ripping Off the Mask From Hustler Entertainer to CEO' and his entrepreneurial evolution. Reflecting on the empowering experiences that guided him to authorship, Joe underlines the process of building a support network and navigating the responsibilities of single fatherhood.

Fatherhood's Complex Layers in Modern Society

As a vigilant single father, Joe addresses the pressing fears and challenges in raising a daughter in today's society. He advocates for attentiveness, support, and open communication as the pillars of a father-daughter relationship. With a fine balance between professional life and parenting duties, Joe strives to provide structure, support, and valuable life insights for his daughter.

A Vision of Fatherhood: Protecting and Teaching the Next Generation

Envisioning his role as a protector and teacher, Joe Lee hopes to instill resilience and strength in his daughter. He emphasizes the value of fathers being present and actively involved—not just in the big moments, but also in the everyday tasks, like doing their daughters' hair. As a 'girl dad,' his commitment to nurturing and mentoring his daughter shines as a beacon for other fathers who listen to 'Dads with Daughters

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to the dads with daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week I love being able to sit down, talk to you, help you, and work with you as you go through this journey that you're on in raising your daughters. I know I've been on the same journey. I'm still on that journey. I'll always be on that journey. Once you're a father, you're always a father. And what's so important is that you never give up.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:46]: You keep moving and you keep working at it because there's gonna be times where it's gonna be hard. There's gonna be times where it's gonna go smoothly, but there is always opportunities to learn, to grow and to be even better. So that's what this show is all about. This show is all about helping you to be the best dad that you can be to help you to connect and engage with your daughters. And that's why I love being able to have these conversations with you every week. I also love being able to bring you different dads, different dads that are doing fatherhood in different ways and bringing you people that have, are from every walk of life, fathers, mothers, other individuals with resources that are gonna help you to be that engaged father that you wanna be. This week, we've got another great guest with us. Joe Lee is with us today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:35]: And Joe is a father of a daughter. He's got a 6 year old daughter at home. We're gonna talk about his journey that he has had thus far with his own daughter, and I'm really excited to have him here. Joe, thanks so much for being here today.

Joe Lee [00:01:48]: Thank you, Chris. I appreciate being a part of the show and being on here. The way that you guys, have come along, I think I was set at the beginning stages of that when you started the organization and group on Facebook. So it's a pleasure being here and being a dad myself for the last 6 years. I've always helped other folks with their trials and tribulations prior to me becoming a dad. So it was one of the reasons why I joined your group back then.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:11]: So first and foremost, what I love to do is I love turning the clock back in time. So let's go all the way back to that first moment that you found out that you were gonna be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Joe Lee [00:02:20]: Oh, man. I I said, you know, of all people, why, you know, why do I hit the girl? Right? And but I smiled all the time. I smiled all the time. Like any other father, you wanna have that boy, But, you know, it's been a pleasure, and I see that I've inspired a lot of men when I first started this journey and how I used to talk about her coming into this world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:41]: So as you think back to the time that you've had with your daughter thus far, I know that when I talk to dads about being a father to a daughter, many people tell me that there's some fear that goes along with it. What's been your biggest fear in raising a daughter in today's society?

Joe Lee [00:02:56]: So there's a couple things, to be honest with you, Chris. 1, if I think about my life coming out of New Orleans and the fact of even just raising a kid today, I don't think it's scary. I think it's a matter of being afraid. What could possibly happen? And I say that because I've often been asked and had conversations with dads or women, all of the same. And I talk about the days when we used to walk around the neighborhood at 6, 7, 8 years old. We 2, 3, 10, 15 miles away from home. Today, that's the fear factor. You can't do that anymore.

Joe Lee [00:03:26]: Predators will take your daughter or son out of your backyard and draw daylight. It doesn't even matter. That's one of the biggest things, and I think she's taught me a lot more too just in general about life as I've gotten back, as I've always been into the health and fitness side of the house, playing semi pro football, bodybuilding, etcetera, this late stage in the game for me and and by the way, I'll be 53 next week, Chris, just to share a little bit with you. So I still keep myself healthy. But working with her in Taekwondo has, gotten me back into stretching. It has gotten me close to God because she's in private school, and every week she has homework to read a, a verse from the Bible.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:03]: Now raising kids is never easy. Raising daughters is not always easy as well. What's been the hardest part for you being a father to a daughter?

Joe Lee [00:04:12]: It's making sure that I'm being attentive. Right? It's making sure that I am supportive, of a female, for 1. I am actively listening, and I'm not just being a dictator because I'm her father, but I'm also fostering open communication. I think it involves setting a positive example that I am empathetic to what she's going through, and I'm finding ways to be resilient to teach her to be resilient. My daughter jumped onto a computer right at the age of 4 months, and she literally crawled over into my lap and was just curious about it. And, you know, she didn't peck on the keyboard. She tried to mimic everything that I was doing, and I'm like, yes. She has that look in her eyes.

Joe Lee [00:04:48]: So from there, that helped me with being a father to a female and what I have seen in the prior 15 years of women now becoming more evolved in the corporate America side of things. So it only meant sense for me to think about, hey, how do I best guide my daughter? Because she's gonna need more than just being a female. She's gonna need more than just going to school and to be able to survive out here in this world of, corporate America and in life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:19]: Now you are busy. You have a lot of things going on. You're doing a lot of different things. And you're trying to also be that engaged dad that you wanna be. Talk to me about balance and how you've found balance in the things that you're trying to do professionally, but also in who you want to be personally for your daughter.

Joe Lee [00:05:38]: Yes. So one thing, I have 2 calendars. I manage calendars. Where most people, years before me, may have missed Christmas or some specific holiday or birthday around a making a business deal, I do my best to manage my schedule around her schedule and not the other way around. So just like I have her in Tae kwon which is generally Mondays Tuesdays and every other weekend, in my business calendar that's lined side by side, I plan my business days around her schedule. And that's been a major, major benefactor to me to make sure that we can get what she needs to get and she can get the time with me. As far as balance wise, yes. And where she is today with her academics in a private school that she's in right now, it's great because she's now being challenged.

Joe Lee [00:06:26]: The preschool, kindergarten, I was often told, and even her mom was told, your daughter's gonna be something. She's very smart. She's very diligent. And I know with myself, I've been the one that put a lot of that sergeant slaughter, get it done, be detailed because that's how I am in my life. And that has helped me provide that balance with her. So from TaeKwonDo, we come in, we get our structure to study, we get bedtime. I keep her schedule the same as much as possible, but there are times when I do random with her. And then on the weekends, when I have her for longer periods because it's not a school night, yes, that's all broken up.

Joe Lee [00:07:03]: She gets that play time in. We get regular television time in. She gets 30 to 45 minutes on her tablet of free time when we have to. When we ride in the car, I make games out of her homework. So for instance, her spelling words, I randomly joke around with her and I said, you can't beat me. I can spell better than you can. Right? So we start playing these games in the car when we're riding. So I balance it all out.

Joe Lee [00:07:29]: And, again, the biggest part is is just being spontaneous sometimes. Yes. I'm very structured. Yes. I'm very attention to detailed 90% of the time, but you have to break up the monotony.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:40]: You definitely have to break up the monotony because at times it it does definitely it definitely can overtake you and you have to be able to be engaged with your daughter. How do you find that you are able to connect best with your daughter and what's been the favorite thing that you and your daughter like to share together?

Joe Lee [00:08:03]: So I'll answer the second question first. Sharing something together, we do share the taekwondo thing together. We share going to the gym together. She likes go to the playground. But more importantly, when I'm in here doing, exercise in the house, she's right there too, you know, for the average man who can't do push ups on his knuckles. She can do 15 to 20 push ups on her knuckles right now. So that's that's one thing. The second thing is chores.

Joe Lee [00:08:24]: When I say it's time to clean up, you know, she's happy to do chores. Ever since she was 2, she has been about doing her chores. Even the preschool days at at preschool, she would fix her little cot and she would stand next to it. And the teachers had often told me that. So those are some of the things. But going to the gym and then sometimes we go to the park. Right? She likes to skate too as well. So we'll in the wintertime, we'll go ice skating.

Joe Lee [00:08:48]: So at least twice, during the year. And if we can make it a 3rd time, we'll go a 3rd time. But more, you know, outside of that, she's a barrel of I wanna learn. She has a bunch of that inside of her, and it's her computer. We sit here on our computer side by side. Some nights, I'm working to try to get contracts done. I've set her up to where she can complete her homework, and we're sitting side by side.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:08]: Now I know that just recently you wrote a new book called ripping off the mask from hustler entertainer to CEO. And I guess first and foremost, talk to me about what made you choose to take the time, the effort to write this book, And what are you hoping that people are taking out of the book itself?

Joe Lee [00:09:30]: So the main subtitle probably says it all, which is dedicated to succeed against all odds. Born and raised in New Orleans in the early seventies and survived, and I will say survived New Orleans from the 19 eighties to the 19 nineties when I decided to leave in 1991. And all through my life, I have been a hustler. I have had that hustler mentality, which is an enterprising and entrepreneurial mindset and spirit, which is the true definition of what a hustler is. Most people see that term or see that word, and they think from the streets. And while I came from the streets and were born and raised from the streets in New Orleans, which was one of the worst places to live in the 19 nineties. And I left there in 1991. And in 1994, it became the murder capital of the world.

Joe Lee [00:10:17]: So with that, the inspiration just came from my lifestyle of helping people, seeing roadblocks that I say that there's a problem to this. We've gotta get up. We've gotta be active. You can change your story. You don't have to travel someone else's journey. Right? It's not the destination that inspires people. It's the journey that inspires everyone. So with that, I've always said, as far back as I could see my dark past is how clear I wanna see my future.

Joe Lee [00:10:49]: So I got up and I did that. I became a chameleon in life to see different things in corporate, see different things in the way that I came up, and I said no more. And I'm gonna take control of my life, and that's what you have to do. And so that inspiration was there a long time ago. And so many people along the way say, you need to write a book that got that were able to know me on a personal level and professional level that just said, hey, man. There's something you need to get out. You need to let this out. And in 2016, one of my employees had recommended me to be nominated to do an interview on this, show called Hatch in the city of Aegean Beach.

Joe Lee [00:11:30]: And so it was a bunch of business owners, and they were all evolving. And at the time, I said, okay. Alright. I got nominated. And when I start hearing people's stories and I didn't have anything prepared, Chris. I just spoke. And that was the first time that parts of me unlocked that box and got deep into that that several of the people in the room were in tears. And so from there, Chris, I had been thinking about it, and people said, hey.

Joe Lee [00:12:02]: You need to do it. And I just I held it off for so long. It just just bit my tongue on that because I'd never wanted to I guess I was just feeling that I didn't have to use my past to succeed in life. And many times along the way, people said, Joe, it's not what you're doing. You need to think about that differently. You accomplished a whole lot, and you don't even know it yet. And so another business owner, a female, by the way, she's been in the same industry, IT, cybersecurity field. Just 2 years ago or two and a half years ago, she said, Joe, you need to write your book.

Joe Lee [00:12:33]: I'm gonna hold you accountable. You're gonna write this book. I've known you for a while now. There's some stuff you need to get out. You need to talk because you can pull people together. You can bridge relationships, but something has driven you because you're constantly working. And so that's where it came from. That was the last straw.

Joe Lee [00:12:50]: And finally, one day, I just sat down and start writing some stuff. And in here, you know, she'd be like, Joe, I'm gonna pair you with this publisher. And I went back and forth back and forth for about a month or 2, and then finally, I pulled the trigger. And so it took me a year to pull it all together, to be honest with you. Generally, they say you can write a book in about 8, 9, 12 weeks. But it has taken me a year to pull it together, and I finally got it done. And it just went to formatting as of last week.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:12]: Well, congratulations. I know as an author myself, how long it takes. And I would say 8 weeks is pretty quick depending on how long the book is.

Joe Lee [00:13:20]: Well, depending on how busy you are too. Right? And that's what I said to my publisher. I said, hey, you're missing something here. I own a company. I can't just sit down and write a book.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:28]: Now, one of the chapters in the book is all about being a girl dad and talking about being a father itself. So I've got a couple of questions after looking through what you've been writing there. So as you think back on your pre fatherhood self, what aspects of your life and identity surprised you the most as you embrace the role of father, particularly to a daughter?

Joe Lee [00:13:50]: So that goes that's gonna roll right into the chapter probably before that. If we step back, I took on many roles in life. Right? I took on many roles. And as this economy and world of life has expanded with women growing in culture and in business, I was in the entertainment business. And so for me to be a girl that, again, friends of mine, old past friends of mine was like, I heard you're a girl dad. I heard you're a hands on girl dad. I heard you're doing hair and doing pedicures of all people. Not you, Joe.

Joe Lee [00:14:24]: Jolie, girl dad. So, you know, with that, I cannot say that I've ever been disrespectful or physically abused or mentally abused any female that I've ever encountered. Has there been a reaction to something? Yes, possibly. Who knows? But I have never purposely done that. So for me, owning up to the responsibilities and my role as a father, again, it goes back to making sure that I'm giving her what she needs emotionally, being a mentor to her, being a protector, teaching her the ways and means of being a girl as well with the other side of it that comes from her mother, though we're, you know, we're shared households, not in shared households. And so being a dad is really playing that role of an active role model in her life, contributing to her growth, contributing to her development, and her well-being. So just like I can see things on the street when I step out my door every day or have a gauge of a potential accident that might happen if I go right or left. I'm teaching her those things.

Joe Lee [00:15:31]: I've been teaching her those things. I'm teaching her the things that she is going to need to succeed in any career that she desires her heart to take in in corporate America and in life. So it also involves just fathering and fostering a strong and positive connection with her. So I nurture her, and I have nurtured her to this day.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:51]: Now you just talked about that you are going through fatherhood as a single dad. Could you elaborate a little bit more on the challenges that you faced while navigating single fatherhood, especially during custody battles and how these challenges shaped your overall journey.

Joe Lee [00:16:07]: With that, that came to me. It's like being a new person to a job you've never done before. And you if somebody's giving you the opportunity and you're just gonna take it head on and you're gonna learn, you're going to gather all the information, you're gonna do some research and things of that nature. I think with my situation, one thing that helped me out, Chris, was I spent 10 years in law. I worked my way up from the mailroom to being a case clerk and research assistant. So it kinda gave me the mentality and mindset to understand And so in the very beginning stages of that, again, I tried to take the proactive role. And me being a father and what I have seen in the past from other fathers and how the system negatively impact them, I took the approach of filing for custody immediately. So I filed for 5050 custody because in my mind and in my heart, I believe in shared custody.

Joe Lee [00:17:07]: And though many relationships do not work out, you still should be able to garner a relationship between parents that does not affect the child and do what's in the best interest of the child, quote, unquote, how that term is overly unused. So I think we need to do that. Every parent has a shared obligation. Every parent has a monetary obligation, and that's the thing I had to focus on. And so while in the beginning, there were some trials and tribulations where where things were kinda bad. Right? And I just had to know, hey, Jodice, what you need to do to manage yourself. Right? You had to set your boundaries. You had to document what you needed to document.

Joe Lee [00:17:50]: You need to keep yourself in line. You need to be clear on what you're stating in messages. And so that's how I I navigated my battle or high conflict at times or, you know, this custody battle in general. The second thing is is that the system to me is flawed for two reasons that I'm finding. 1, it's still written on the old principles of 50, 60 years ago, where a lot of it did favor more of the woman. And now we also have the evolution well, I'm not gonna say the evolution of attorneys, but we have a good and fine line of good attorneys and bad attorneys. There are attorneys that will take your money and say that they're gonna do something and don't do what they're gonna say. There are attorneys that will be your advocate.

Joe Lee [00:18:36]: They are going to speak out in court for you. They are going to work with you, you know? The third thing about the attorneys that I can say is that you're you're gonna go through 1 or 2 or maybe 3, unless you've done enough research that you think you found the right one to support you. Unfortunately, for me, I had to go through 2 or 3 to find the one that I currently have today. And the other part about that is going back to some of my first points was I knew how to represent and present myself to my attorney. There were things that I did in my process to set my attorney up to understand who I am, who I was, and where I'm at today. The information that I gave him had to be clear, concise in order. So I created a template that also mapped back to what is called the 10 factors of child custody. That's in every state.

Joe Lee [00:19:28]: So my journals and the writing that I gave him and prepared for him mapped to those, factors as well. And that journal was a part of another tool that I utilized is a communication app. There are different versions out there. I have one that I use today, you know, and I sometimes recommend that to dads if they contact me. But I think it's, you know, it's for everyone at the end of the day. And so that those are some of the things that I did to kinda navigate my custody battle. Today, we've been to court maybe several times, but more importantly, the judges have seen the evidence. The judges have said, I'm not changing this order.

Joe Lee [00:20:03]: The judges have said, we're gonna keep this 5050 in place.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:06]: So how important has it been to build a support network for yourself, especially during those moments of uncertainty and emotional hurdles? And what advice would you say that you have for other single parents facing similar situations?

Joe Lee [00:20:19]: Yes. So one, to build a network, I involved my daughter with me on things that I could, whether it was social events, whether it was events that was kid friendly, and she was always there from my business world and from my personal world. My friends and colleagues have been there through it all, and some of them are people that I provided advice to or recommendations to or suggestions on a custody matter at times when I before I became a father. So that network was developed pretty quickly, And at the same time, I even still took from all of them because these were people who had been in custody matters or had kids that, you know, are still married, and that provided me advice. So that was one thing. And the other part of it was just making sure that I can provide valuable lessons. I think that's what fathers have to do as well and follow the order. Follow what the order says at the end of the day, and that can go out to everyone.

Joe Lee [00:21:26]: In my book, I don't just specifically speak about fathers. I speak from a father's perspective because the world knows how things have been, slighted to the other parent. But if I could provide some advice to anyone, it would be to have patience, not be selfishness, and have the ability to prioritize needs over our own at the end of the day. This will instill the deep sense of responsibility. This will encourage the growth. Parenthood, I think, often teaches us resiliency. It's adaptability. It's the importance of fostering and nurturing an environment that's great for growth.

Joe Lee [00:22:06]: And I keep saying growth because they are at a level when they're so young right now. They will suck up anything that you teach them, anything that you give them. But if you don't give it to them, they will never get there. Then if you don't have a repeatable process, it will not be retained. Repeatable, retain. Repeatable, retain. And we have to continue doing that, and that's one thing I do with my daughter as well. 1 of the fathers in our group reached out and say, hey, Joe.

Joe Lee [00:22:35]: You know, about the taekwondo. I don't know if you saw that lately, but, a father reached back out to me. I have my daughter in taekwondo, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. What do you do differently? Or or what are you doing with your daughter? And I just laid it right out in very concise format and just say, I'm doing a, b, c, and d. Most importantly, they go to Taekwondo for 30 to 45 minutes. You need to do that again and again and again during the days that you have your child. And it doesn't have to be a long time. On the weekends, me and my daughter probably get in about 2 hours of taekwondo, if not 4, 2 day 2 hours each day on the weekend, and that's broken up.

Joe Lee [00:23:11]: It's broken up. And, again, I make it fun. The last thing as a piece of advice, I would just say I'm constantly and constantly practicing insights and giving her insights about the complexities of human relationships, the profound impact that one person's action can have on another person's well-being. Overall, being a dad, it's a continuous journey of learning and self discovery. And in most cases, men, you know, they walk away with their backs broken at in the end, but we're still here. We're still surviving because, you know, we have to be that protector.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:49]: So as you look ahead, what aspirations do you have for your daughter? And how do you envision your role as a father being a guiding force for her life as she grows and pursues her dreams?

Joe Lee [00:24:03]: And so one thing I do is I constantly encourage her. 2, since the age of 3a half, 4, she has said, I wanna be a doctor. And to this day, she's 6. I've tried to skew that. I've said, hey. You should get into computers. But at most, the fact that she still loves computers, but she still says she wants to be a doctor. I've tried to skew her by saying, why don't you be a dentist? Here, let's take these dentist toys.

Joe Lee [00:24:27]: Let's play around and just to try to see where her head really is right at this young age. So far, she has been committed to saying she wants to be a doctor. So with that, I foster doctor games, doctor little commercials or YouTube videos from time to time, and we sit and talk about some things on that side of it. I also embrace saying that, hey. You are a winner. No matter what you do or whatever loss you have in life or whatever failure that you endured because you did something and you were not the victor, I say, you have to think that you are a winner. A winner never quits on themselves. And that's what I tell her.

Joe Lee [00:25:06]: She has been in 3 tournaments thus far. She has won 4 medals in 2 tournaments. And in her last tournament, she didn't win any. And I say, hey. You're standing up there, and I gave her what it looked like. We lost at the end of the day. So she understand, and now she's embraced that at the age of 6 that, hey. I can't win everything.

Joe Lee [00:25:23]: And when we got home and even in the car, in the journey, I talked to her about, hey, we've gotta work hard at everything we do. Okay? We've gotta be stronger. We just gotta get better. I say, you knew it. You just lost focus a little bit. So those are some of the things that I see for her in her future. And if she wants to be a doctor, I'm gonna support that. If she wants to be a technologist or some cyber engineer, I'm gonna support that.

Joe Lee [00:25:44]: Doesn't matter what she decides she wants to do. And, you know, more importantly, whatever she decides she wants to identify, I know there's a lot of identifiers out here today. He, she, her, him, that type of thing. So I'm gonna support her, and I'm gonna give her as much guidance as I can about life and what I've learned in coming up and building my road, my journey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:03]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Joe Lee [00:26:11]: Sure. It sounds like you got a little curve ball here, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:15]: Now in one word, what is fatherhood?

Joe Lee [00:26:17]: Resilience.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:18]: When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Joe Lee [00:26:22]: When she was in kindergarten.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:23]: Now if I was to talk to your daughter, how would she describe you as a dad?

Joe Lee [00:26:27]: Oh, wow. That's a good question. That has changed. I've asked her that question a couple of times. She'd probably tell you things about what I do for her or probably tell you things of what I teach her. So, ultimately, she would probably describe me as a teacher if you had to put all those things together because I asked the question and sometimes she says, well, you teach me this, you teach me that, you buy me this, you buy me that. So I think that's what it would be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:55]: And as you think, let's say, 10, 15 years down the road, how do you want her to describe you then?

Joe Lee [00:27:00]: The man in her life that taught her how to attack the world just to be strong and live in this world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:08]: Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Joe Lee [00:27:09]: You know, one of my uncles that passed, one of my mother's brother had passed in about 2019. I didn't grow up with a father. My father was killed before I was born. And so I had a mother that raised 2 kids that were they're a year apart coming up in New Orleans. My uncle has always been supportive of everything I have done from the time he was summoned by my mother to pull me out of New Orleans. And he stepped into a situation to step kids, never looked back, cherished those kids today who are my cousins. And he's always treated me like a son. And he's tried to guide me.

Joe Lee [00:27:45]: He didn't shun me for my bad mistakes along the way, and that's inspiring enough to me. So I would say my uncle Roosevelt Lee.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:53]: Now you've given a lot of pieces of advice today, things that you have learned along the way so far in your own parenting journey. As we finish up today, anything about all dads that are out there, what's one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Joe Lee [00:28:05]: I would just say, if you fall, Serena, high conflict custody battle. And even if you're not, be present, be a part of it. Learn how to do the hair, fellas. Go to my YouTube channel. Learn how to do the hair.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:19]: Now if people wanna find out more about the book, more about you, where should they go?

Joe Lee [00:28:24]: Right now, there's a posting on my Facebook page. You can find me on there, a couple of different ways. You can find me on there by jlgov. That's jl, g as in George, o as in Oscar, v as in Victor. Right now, my personal Facebook page, which is Jolie, Virginia Beach. You could could find me in Virginia Beach. Or thirdly, we are going to be putting out the information in the next couple days of where that would be. Chris, I will definitely send you a link to that as my publisher is you know, we're behind the curve on that right now, and we're trying to release by the end of the month, since we're not gonna make the deadline for my birthday, which is next week.

Joe Lee [00:28:58]: So those are the two places that you could find information about the book, but the website and everything is being worked on right now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:03]: Well, Joe, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your own story, and I wish you all the best.

Joe Lee [00:29:09]: No, Chris. I appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you again. It's been great connecting with you guys. And I'll close with saying, fathers, when you compete out here in the courtroom, outside in the business. And what that I mean by that is just be smart about what you do, be articulate, carry yourself in the best light.

Joe Lee [00:29:37]: Thank you, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:38]: If you've enjoyed today's episode of the dads with daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together dot org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:30]: All geared to helping you raise strong and empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:36]: We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast, calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and be the world to them. Them. Be the best dad you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Join us as we delve into the gripping narrative of Joe Cody on the Dads with Daughters podcast, where he shares his multifaceted life as an entrepreneur, advocate, and a devoted father.

Infertility Journey

Joe retraces the trying ordeal that marked the beginning of his fatherhood journey—the quest for parenthood through IVF. He lays bare his family's emotional rollercoaster, marked by failed IVF attempts, a heartbreaking miscarriage, and financial strain amounting to $60,000.

Grain Fertility: A Beacon of Hope

Amidst the turmoil, Joe's expertise in health policy, coupled with his volunteer work for Resolve, sparked the inception of Grain Fertility. The app, enriched by Joe's personal saga, stands as a testament to turning adversity into a beacon of hope, aiding countless individuals in their fertility quests.

Empowerment Through Technology

Grain Fertility not only simplifies the daunting medical landscape but also fosters understanding and empowerment. It epitomizes Joe's crusade for accessible reproductive healthcare—the service, available in both free and premium versions, embodies the convergence of education, support, and expertise.

Fatherhood Through the Lens of Fertility Struggles

Joe eloquently articulates how overcoming fertility hurdles has sculpted him into a more present and grateful father. Whether relishing the anticipation of his daughter's future or savoring shared moments at a Frozen musical, he exemplifies the profound appreciation and unshakable love that stem from his experiences.

Defining Moments and Lasting Advice

In an intimately revealing 'Fatherhood 5' segment, Joe distills fatherhood to its essence: love. He humbly acknowledges his aspirations for his daughter, imparting wisdom to fellow fathers on kindness and the pivotal role of love in parenting.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to sit down with you, talk to you, to engage with you, to find that commonality that we have in raising daughters in today's society. And I know that each of us are on our own journey. But you know what? We are all on a collective journey because we are all raising daughters. And that's important because all of us come to this with our own backgrounds, but we don't have to do this alone. There are so many other dads around us. And while society may sometimes push us to be that lone wolf per se, that alpha male, that person that is that is being challenged to go alone and do things by yourself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:10]: You don't have to. And that's what this podcast is all about. This podcast is here as a resource. It's here to help you to go on a journey with all of the dads that are guests, all of the people that are guests to find those resources and find those commonalities, learn something along the way, and help you as you are going through your own journey. Because you don't have to be alone. And you have a community right here. That's here to help you in that journey that you're on every week. I also love being able to have different guests with us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:43]: And why? Because I 1, I like learning from them. But also, 2, I love being able to introduce them to you. So we have dads that come on moms that come on. We have other people with many different resources and it is always a fun time to be able to learn about the journey that they've been on and the things that they have struggled with as well, because I'm sure many of the things that they're struggling with, you're struggling with too. Today, we've got another great guest with us. Joe Cody was with us today, and Joe is a father of a daughter. We're gonna talk about his own journey, and I'm really excited to have him here. Joe, thanks so much for being here today.

Joe Cody [00:02:18]: Oh, thanks for having me on, Chris. I appreciate it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:20]: It is my pleasure. Love that you're here, and I'm really excited to be able to learn a little bit more about you. 1st and foremost, we got to turn the clock back a couple of years now. Your daughter is in that age 3 range. So we're going to talk about what it's been like in these these years that you've had with her. So let's turn that clock back in time. What was that first reaction that you had when you first found out that you were going to be a dad to a daughter?

Joe Cody [00:02:46]: My journey is like a lot of people's where we were trying for years to try to have a child get pregnant. We had to go through almost 4 years of infertility treatment, IVF specifically, to try to have our daughter. So when we got that phone call from our reproductive endocrinologist saying that my wife was pregnant, it was an unbelievable feeling. And then the way that IVF process works, you find out much quicker than other people do about the gender of the child and other stuff. So I found out this we were gonna have a baby girl, and I was ecstatic. I was at that point where I didn't really care whether or not I had a boy or girl. I was just so blessed to have a child concerning the journey we had gone through. And then I really started to think through.

Joe Cody [00:03:24]: I found myself fast forwarding through decades already where I was thinking about our graduation, about walking right down the aisle, and these other things that dads think about as you go through that process. But then I had to kind of rewind to come back into the moment. So it was really exciting moment for me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:38]: Now, a lot of dads tell me that, especially in raising daughters and you only have a daughter, I only have daughters. So I can't say that I have the same experience and understanding what a father with a son goes through. But a lot of the dads that I talked to that are dads with daughters have said that there's some fear that goes along with being a father to a daughter. What's been your biggest fear in raising your daughter so far?

Joe Cody [00:04:04]: I think for me, it is you don't know necessarily what you're doing because you don't have that experience of being a little girl or a woman growing up in today's world. So you think as a a male who has gone through your experiences, you know, that sheds light onto the way that we're going to approach different situations. But understanding that her perspective is gonna be completely different. She's growing up in a completely different time than I did. So is that fear of am I doing things the right way, and am I actually adequately preparing her for what she needs in life later on, knowing that her journey is gonna be complete different than mine?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:39]: There's definitely ups and downs in that journey. It's not always roses. It's not always going to be easy. What's been the hardest part of being a dad to a daughter?

Joe Cody [00:04:50]: I think for me, the process going through and having her and then immediately she was born April 2020, so at the very start of the pandemic. So you have a pandemic baby who's born, and you we didn't have a lot of support for that first 6 to 9 months because no one had vaccines yet. Everyone was still trying to figure out what was going on. So we felt really isolated, during that process. We did get to see our parents a few times during it, but for the most part so and a lot of that was trying to figure out what are we doing going through this process. And There are so many small things with little girls that you don't think of as a a male growing up and trying to figure out those things. So I think that was, you know, one of the things that we've just tried to figure out, but constantly trying to remind myself that a lot of us, we don't really know what we're doing. We're kinda figuring this out as we go, and we're doing the best we can, and that's the most we can do.

Joe Cody [00:05:45]: And I think if we continue to love and support and provide, everything that she needs, I think we're gonna be just fine.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:52]: Now you've had your daughter in your life now for about three and a half years, and you've had definite experiences. You just talked about the experience that you had right away. There are definite memories, things that you'll remember, things that she'll start to remember as she gets a little bit older. What's been the most memorable experience that you've had thus far as a father to a daughter?

Joe Cody [00:06:17]: He is really into pretend and to dressing up and all of those things. And it's very funny because we didn't necessarily push any of those things until, you know, quote, unquote, constructs of what a a girl should be doing. She just naturally gravitated towards those and loves Disney princesses. So for Christmas this year, we actually went to go see the Frozen musical at the Kennedy Center in Washington DC where we live. So for Christmas Eve, that's what we did. It's my wife, Kate, my daughter, and I went out, had the 3 of us then went to dinner afterwards. And it was an amazing time, and she just loved the entire thing. She got to wear her Elsa dress to the musical and knew the songs, and it was a very it was an amazing experience to be able to to see that.

Joe Cody [00:07:01]: So that's one of those things that I know I will remember. Hopefully, she does as well, but there are lots of small things too that we've been able to do together. I really am into college football and sports, and she's really started to love watching sports with me, which I haven't tried to push it, but I am kind of to a degree because it's a a really great way for us to be able to bond together. So she'll start chanting. I'm from Missouri originally, so I'm a large Mizzou fan. And so she'll start saying m I z z o u, and she had chanting along and stuff. So it's very funny to be able to see her do that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:33]: I love it. And I'm sure, you know, down the road, you'll have to see, you know, who she's gonna be rooting for for the Super Bowl and beyond and, you know, have some fun along the way.

Joe Cody [00:07:41]: Exactly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:42]: Now, you're a busy guy. You've got a lot of things going on. You're an entrepreneur, but you also are involved in a lot of other things. Talk to me about balance and how you have found balance in your life to be able to be the engaged father that you want to be while still being able to do the things that you need to do to support your family and want to do to be able to move your career forward and the other things that you're doing forward.

Joe Cody [00:08:09]: I I think one of the things that I've tried to do is to make it a priority to build it into your schedule. You have to make an effort in order to be there for my wife to be able to help out with stuff. You know, as you're trying to do I'm trying to build a company right now. I've had other jobs. I've been doing nonprofit work. I've been doing advocacy work for the National Fertility Association, all these things. But I always will try to have a few hour window in the evening where after daycare is over or before bedtime, we're doing stuff together. I try not to schedule as many calls as I can.

Joe Cody [00:08:41]: Try to be there to be able to play, pick up or drop off 1 of the 2, be there to cook dinner, be there for bath, bedtime. And if there are additional things that have to get done, they get done afterwards. But trying to prioritize that time knowing that we only have a little bit of time while, you know, we're together, and it seems like it's gonna be forever. But in reality, you know, it's speeding along very quickly. So me making it a priority and as I go through the entrepreneurial process or everything else, I constantly tell myself that no matter what we do, it's never gonna be as hard as the process we had trying to have her and trying to remember why we went through everything we did, the the money we spent, the emotional turmoil, and the stuff that I'm doing now and trying to help other people who are trying who are struggling with having kids. I'm doing it so that they can have those memories as well. So trying to prioritize all that's incredibly important to me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:34]: So let's talk about this IVF journey that you and your wife were on. I know that it can be a long arduous journey and definitely challenging, frustrating. And and I know that that journey that you went on has led you to building a new company called Grain Fertility, with an app that that is helping other families that are going through a similar process. So I guess let's talk first about this journey that you were on. And how did that lead you to starting this new company?

Joe Cody [00:10:09]: Yeah. So like a lot of couples, when after you get married, you think about wanting to have kids. And we put it off for a few years. My wife is a teacher. She was getting her master's degree at that time considering if she wanted to be a principal. We were gonna buy a house. You know, we're going through the traditional step by step process that everyone says you're supposed to go through. So we didn't really make having a child a priority early on in our marriage.

Joe Cody [00:10:29]: But as we started to have problems of experiencing that, it really became apparent that it was gonna be a much more arduous journey. And so that ended up being about three and a half years of infertility treatment that we had. And over that course of that, we had 5 failed rounds of IVF. We had one miscarriage. We had to go to 2 different clinics and spent close to $60,000 out of pocket to go through the entire process. And as I went through that, I kept thinking there has to be a way for us to be able to be able to make more informed decisions and to try to regain a sense of control that you lose as you go through the infertility process. You really feel like you are a passenger in your own journey, and there are so many things you have zero control over as you go through that process. And my background is in health policy.

Joe Cody [00:11:15]: I worked on the hill. I worked for consulting firms. Done for 16 plus years in DC trying to work on health policy issues. So I started to volunteer for a a patient organization called Resolve, the National Amp and amphetamine Association, as a way to try to take back some of that control, try to help others use my skill set to try to impact policy at the national level. So that way people who weren't as fortunate as myself who couldn't afford these numerous cycles of the process could try to be able to go through that process in a little easier, more cost effective way. And as we went through that journey together, I realized how common it was that people really struggled in trying to understand everything that's thrown at them as they go through that process. Grain Fertility is the application that I wish that we had as we went through that process. The whole idea was, based off of what my wife did to manage her own information.

Joe Cody [00:12:04]: She carried a binder to all of her doctor's appointments, and that was the way that her doctors knew what was going on because those doctors aren't communicating to one another. The patients were the ones who had to take control of that situation. So the application essentially is a way to be able to patients to be able to take some of that control back and to be more empowered and educated as they go through this process.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:22]: So the name, Grain Fertility, talk to me about that. What was it and why why did you call it that? And what is the the symbolic nature of that name for the organization itself?

Joe Cody [00:12:35]: Yeah. So for a couple of things. 1, so my my background is in health policy and for the last 7 years I've worked in health IT policy specifically. But a lot of the data that we have in our doctor's office, it's all granular. It's all been siloed away from one of another. So it's not really able to be transformed into something greater. But then I took Latin in high school. And when you look back at the history of agriculture and fertility being tied together, you look at the Greek and Roman goddesses, most of the time, you know, you have Demeter.

Joe Cody [00:13:05]: As the goddess of fertility and of grain. So there's this association between both grain and fertility being tied together. And so I really wanted to be able to have a way to be able to symbolize how we're trying to transform that data into something greater to be able to help promote greater fertility for individuals who are struggling with their own journey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:24]: So let's talk about what this what your organization now is creating. I said you have this app that is out there to help people that are going through this process like you were talking about specifically. And so talk to me about the app, what you've created, how it works, and how it is simplifying the process for individuals as they are going from patient from doctor to doctor as they're going through this process?

Joe Cody [00:13:51]: Yeah. So one of the things that we are really trying to achieve is to be able to promote a better sense of education and empowerment for the individual. So this application, Grain Fertility, that is available for download, patients will sign up for it and then we walk them through the process of collecting their health information. We'll help them create a timeline that allows them to visualize their fertility journey in one place and we give them organizational tools that allow them to access the different information they need when they need it. So right now, a lot of patients who are going through fertility treatment or managing any disease really have to go to their doctor's, portal in order to sign up. You log in your information. You'll be able to see some of your information, but it's not really accessible and it's really hard to be able to understand. A lot of times, it's in medical language, acronyms, and other stuff their doctors have written in these clinical notes.

Joe Cody [00:14:42]: So not only do we allow that patient to be able to import that information, put it on the application, have it files on their phone, computer, wherever they want, we also provide them with educational resources and tools and connect them with other organizations that help them understand what that means. We we really believe that an educated patient is an empowered patient, and information by itself doesn't necessarily help unless you understand the context of what that means for your own individual case. So we try to provide those resources directly to the patient so that they understand what that information means in context of their own journey, and then they can start to ask their health care provider, what are the things I need to be doing in order to increase my chances of success? What are the things I should be doing? And what are the things that are coming next so I feel more prepared for the journey? Everything doesn't feel like a surprise. All of that starts to snowball into a patient that feels more in control. They know what's coming on. They can make better decisions because they are more informed. Just like in business, I firmly believe that if an individual has more information at their fingertips and they understand what it means, they can make better decisions. Same thing with our health care.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:45]: So if people are interested in this application, is there a cost to it? How do they access it? What are they going to be seeing when they get into it? And how do they start using it to the best of their ability?

Joe Cody [00:15:58]: Yeah. So you can go to the website, www.grainfertility.com, and we have 2 versions of the application. There's a free version and there's a premium version of the application. I firmly believe that every individual should their health data, and you shouldn't have to pay for it. That's why there's a free version of this application out there. The free version will allow you to be able to download the information. You can create that timeline. You can organize it.

Joe Cody [00:16:17]: You can access your information. You can do all that. But just like TurboTax, QuickBooks, and these other services that are out there, sometimes you want some additional coaching. You want some additional expertise to help you understand what this information means, to be able to get connected with additional organizations that we've partnered with, to be able to help you with other aspects of the journey, whether it's nutrition, the mental aspect of it, whether it's trying to get second opinions, connecting with other health care providers in the fertility, endocrinology, other spaces that people are trying to access care. So the premium version provides a little extra support for those patients who want that support for them, but I firmly believe that people should be able to access this stuff free. I wish I could offer this application free to everyone all the time. It would be amazing if that's the case. And maybe one day I'll be successful enough, we'll be able to turn it into a free product because I I firmly believe that this information is yours.

Joe Cody [00:17:05]: You should be able to learn from it and do it to what you want. So that's kind of the basic model what we have right now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:10]: So as you look at the future, what's next? What are you doing from here? You've got the app going, but what's on the horizon?

Joe Cody [00:17:17]: What we really wanna do is to use this information to help power the next generation of fertility treatment insights and to improve the experience. I'm a big proponent on information informing advocacy. So the organization Grain Fertility is going to be also working alongside other companies, individuals, organizations that are helping promote, improve access to reproductive health care throughout the United States to ensure that individuals can afford treatment. You shouldn't have to be an upper middle class individual or higher in order to afford essential health care, which I believe reproductive health care is. So we want to be able to use this information to provide insights and data that drive better technologies, to help drive down the cost, to help improve access to care, and really trying to promote a more democratic, process for fertility care. Because right now, 1 in 6 individuals will experience infertility over the course of their lifetime. So there are a number of your listeners right now who may be struggling, a lot of them silently. They're not talking about this process, but they really are struggling, and there's a lot of stuff they don't know as they go through that process.

Joe Cody [00:18:22]: This doesn't mean, though, that 1 in 6 are getting care. There are only a few 1000000 people in the United States who are actually able to get fertility treatment because of the cost, because of access issues. I wanna work firmly alongside other companies, our organizations, doctors, to be able to expand access to that so everyone can have access to it. So that's what we want this company to be able to do. I firmly believe that companies can both drive profits and be good businesses, but also make the world a better place. And that's kind of where we hope to be able to have that intersection.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:50]: So you just talked about the fact that many dads that are out there, though you said the 1 in 6, that are having these these struggles, these challenges, and they're doing it alone. They're not reaching out. They're not talking to other dads or other people about this challenging time within their life. You went through it yourself. So I guess one of the things that I question because we talk a lot about the importance of community, the importance of using that community to help you in that journey. As you reflect back on your own journey, and I don't know how much you divulged when you were going through those years of infertility, what would have helped you outside of your app? And what would have helped you to be willing to open up to others if you weren't opening up to others?

Joe Cody [00:19:38]: Or the 1st year or so, we didn't tell anyone. Our closest family members knew, and that was it. We were not open and vocal about our own fertility struggles, our own journey. There was a stigma and a shame attached to that. You feel like there is some type of failure for not being able to have a child. You you're raised your entire life. We talk about this as a society that's you know, this is the goal of all these individuals who are married to be able to procreate and have families. Do you feel like there's something wrong with you as you go through that process? And the pain that goes along with it is so intense at times, especially once you've had failure when you spend so much time, effort, money into it.

Joe Cody [00:20:17]: And then for it not to work, you feel this collapse. So you wanna stay guarded because you're telling other people you're trying to have a child, everyone there's natural follow-up conversations and questions about that. So we weren't open for the 1st year or so. And then it was actually a therapist that my wife saw quite regularly and I would occasionally go to. I will admit I was not the best at going to it early on in the process. But she's the one who tried to promote us talking about a little bit more and then actually referred me to resolve the National Infertility Association to get involved with them to serve advocacy 2, there should be no stigma attached to it. And it is a disease. It is not something that you should be ashamed about.

Joe Cody [00:21:02]: Just like mental health, just like obesity, just like diabetes, cancer treatment, etcetera, Individual going through this type of trauma should have resources available to them. So I wish that I had known about that and been more forthcoming about it early on because once I started talking to others and was public about our own journey, posting on social media, which is way before I even started my company, the number of people who I had reaching out to me saying, oh, I'm going through this too. And we started just talking. Some one of my best friends reached out to me and said, hey. We've been going through this for about 9 months now. I had no idea. I saw him all the time. No one ever talked about it.

Joe Cody [00:21:41]: He's one of my best friends. And so I started to have these conversations with people and realized that we're all struggling looking for this. So hopefully, by me being more open, I was able to tell other people. There are a lot of communities that are out there, and I think trying to find whatever that approach is for you is best. Therapy isn't always the best for everyone. Some men just don't want to do it. Some do, and they love it. There are online communities that are available out there for people to be able to talk.

Joe Cody [00:22:06]: Could be anonymous. It could be any way, but finding out ways to deal with it as opposed to burying it is incredibly important because it will consume you. And it is the hardest thing I ever went through, for sure. But it made us stronger. We talked about it a lot. We were really open. And I think that we're both better parents because of it, and I think we're better spouses because of the journey as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:27]: So unpack that a little bit. You say you're you feel like you're a better parent and better spouses because of this. Talk to me about that. What did this journey do for both of those aspects that really made you stronger in those ways?

Joe Cody [00:22:38]: I think there's a sense of appreciation that you understand that nothing should be taken for granted and you have to work for it. There were a lot of things. It's very easy to imagine scenarios that if this didn't work out, what happens to us as a couple? Or what happened my daughter would not be here if this did fail. Unfortunately, there are a lot of individuals and couples who face that question right now. You know, they're childless not by choice, but because they could not overcome the obstacles. And so they're trying to figure out other ways to try to have a family, whether it's through surrogacy, adoption, other things. And they may just say, you know what? It's not in the cards. We're not gonna have children.

Joe Cody [00:23:17]: And they have to find a way to be okay with that. So I think for us, it was a matter of trying to realize that this ideal scenario of what we thought our wives were going to be, where we were gonna get married, we're gonna buy a house, we we wanna both have multiple kids. We're both from big families, Irish Catholic families who really grew on all around a lot of noise. So we had this ideal of what was going to be our future and then to realize that that isn't always the case. Life is going to throw you curveballs, and it's up to you to figure out ways together and to know that you have to trust on your partner to be able to provide those resources, to be able to provide that help and that love. And once we've been able to go through that, nothing is gonna be harder than that journey. So as we could look towards parenting, I think we're appreciative and understand that we are blessed to be able to have our daughter and everything is everything that we go from now on is just an experience that we really wanna take in. We don't take it for granted at all.

Joe Cody [00:24:15]: There are times, obviously, we get frustrated like every other parent does. And, you know, we have to kind of remind ourselves that in the end, it's really about that love that we're able to have established in our family and just think about that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:27]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, or I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. You ready?

Joe Cody [00:24:34]: Ready.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:35]: In one word, what is fatherhood?

Joe Cody [00:24:37]: Love.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:38]: When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Joe Cody [00:24:42]: I don't think I have yet.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:43]: Completely fair. Now your daughter's young, so I'm gonna ask you this in 2 different ways. But if I was to talk to your daughter, how would she describe you as a dad? And then think, let's say 10 years from now, how do you want your daughter to describe you then?

Joe Cody [00:24:55]: Now I hope she would say or think she would say that I'm funny and compassionate. But in the future, I hope that she understands that everything we're doing is to help prepare her and give her the tools she needs to be able to succeed in life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:09]: Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Joe Cody [00:25:11]: My wife and I are lucky enough to have large families, so we have a lot of role models to be able to look after. And there's a lot of different family journeys. My my parents are divorced, but my dad and my mom are both happily remarried. And I look to that for inspiration anyways. My father-in-law, he just got remarried. My wife's mother passed away in 2016 from breast cancer, but there was an incredibly loving relationship, and I had the honor of getting to know her. Her her grandparents. My grandparents were married for 50 plus years before a lot of them passed away.

Joe Cody [00:25:45]: So we're we're lucky enough to have a lot of role models and people to be able to look after to say this is what we wanna aspire to be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:52]: Now you've given a lot of pieces of advice today, things that have led you to who you are today and where you're going from here. As we finish up today, and you think about every dad, what's one piece of advice you wanna give to every father?

Joe Cody [00:26:06]: Be kind to yourself because we can often overthink things and think what we're doing is in a right or wrong or it is we're doing things the proper way as fathers. I don't believe there's really a proper way to be a father, and we all have different experiences that guide the way the decisions we make. So be kind to yourself and leave yourself grace to know that you're doing the best you can. And as long as you are there and supportive and you're able to show that love, you're gonna do just fine.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:37]: Now, Joe, I know you've mentioned it before, but I'm gonna ask you again, if people wanna find out more about grain fertility or if they wanna find out more about you, where's the best place for them to go?

Joe Cody [00:26:47]: Yeah. So you can go to our website, www.grainfertility.com. We're also on social media. You'll find us on Facebook. You'll find us on Instagram. You'll find us on LinkedIn. Love to be able to connect with anyone and everyone. I'm a big proponent of talking to anyone no matter what their experience is.

Joe Cody [00:27:03]: I feel like I can always learn from people. So love that you can find me on social media as well as Joe Cote on I'm on x. I'm on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, etcetera. So please do not be a stranger. Reach out to me. I would love to be able to talk to people in people in the community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:17]: Joe, just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today. Thank you for being here and being a part of this about of the voices that are a part of this podcast. And I truly wish you all the best.

Joe Cody [00:27:28]: Thank you so much, Chris. I really appreciate your time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:30]: The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week all geared to helping you raise strong empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:22]: We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast, the time goes by just like a dynamite blast, calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and muscle men. Get out and be in the world. Choose them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's Dads with Daughters' podcast featured some amazing guests. actor, pastor and father, Aqeel Ash-Shakoor and his daughter Jaylah Ash-Shakoor. The discussions revolved around their experiences, highlighting the integral role of fathers in daughter's lives, and providing valuable lessons for dads everywhere.

**A Father's Protective Instinct and Balancing Parenthood with a Career**

When Aqeel learned he was about to become a father to a daughter, he felt a profound sense of responsibility and protectiveness. He reflected on his initial desire to have a daughter and shared the powerful moment of witnessing her birth. Aqeel also discussed the concerns fathers often face, particularly when it comes to protecting their daughters in a world that can sometimes be unkind. Balancing a busy career with involved fatherhood, Aqeel emphasizes the importance of prioritization, with a three-rule mantra: 'God, family, handle your business.'

**The Importance of Father-Daughter Relationships**

Jaylah spoke candidly about the evolution of her appreciation for her father's protective nature. As she transitioned into adulthood, she understood the value of having a supportive dad and recognized the unique challenges that come with the territory. Aqeel and Jaylah mutually stressed the significance of a father's presence and guidance in shaping a daughter's sense of self and decision-making abilities.

**Communication and Trust - Key Pillars of Parenthood**

A crucial topic discussed in the podcast revolves around the essence of communication in building strong father-daughter relationships. Aqeel and Jaylah highlighted the need for clear dialogue, understanding, and a foundation of trust. They emphasized that parents must believe in their children's capabilities and support them in carving their own paths, even when they diverge from expectations.

**Building Confidence and Resilience**

Aqeel shared an affectionate account of fostering confidence in Jaylah. He recounted his efforts to instill resilience by encouraging her to embrace challenges, including navigating self-doubt at her new school. This mirrors in Jaylah's own aspirations for impact and influence in her endeavors as an influencer and entrepreneur.

**The Ash-Shakoor Legacy of Individualism and Success**

Aqeel's humble beginnings and his vow at nine years old to achieve success laid a foundation for his parenting approach, focused on teaching his children to believe in themselves without excuses. Jaylah spoke of her father's imprint on her ambition, the value of taking charge, and owning the room, attributing her confidence to the freedom her parents granted her.

In conclusion, this episode serves as a powerful testament to the deep bonds, challenges, and triumphs within father-daughter relationships. It's an encouragement for dads to embrace their unique journey with their daughters, supporting them to reach their full potential, and leaving a legacy of love, respect, and understanding.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to the dads with daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to sit down and talk to you about the journey that you are on with your daughters. Doug. It is a exciting time. It is a important time, and it is so important for you to be actively engaged in your daughter's lives And being willing to learn along with her and going on this journey along with her as well. Every week, I also love being able to have different people, different people to share their experiences.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:56]: We've had dads on the show. We've had moms on the show. We've had Other people with tons of resources that are sharing those resources with you. And there are special moments when I have an opportunity to be able to have a Father and a daughter on the show, and that's today what we're going to be doing. Today, I've got 2 great guests with us. Reverend Dr. Aqeel Ash-Shakoor is with us today, and his daughter, Jaylah, is with us as well. And I'm really excited to have them here today to talk about Their journey as father and daughter and to learn more from them. Aqeel, Jaylah, thanks so much for being here today.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:01:35]: Thank you much. Thank you.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:01:36]: No problem. Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:38]: Well, I really appreciate you both being here. And I guess first and foremost, I wanna turn the clock back in time, Aqeel. I want to have you go back. I wanna go all the way back. I wanna go back to that first moment that you found out that you were going to be a father. To a daughter. What was going through your head?

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:01:55]: Wow. Amazing. That is a trip down memory lane. I will say that. So the journey goes like this. My first son, which is the oldest, his name is Jabriel. And so when I was in the marine corps serving active duty, the One of my gunnery sergeants had a little daughter, and, I was just so marveled that she was, like, 2 years old.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:02:15]: But she was so affluent, and her Noah. Was just incredible. She can carry on the conversation. I just was, like, from there, so I kept asking him, like, what are you guys doing? He just said he just told me that lesson. Just don't talk baby talk to them when they get older. So I had that in mind, but at the same time, our 1st child was a son. And let me tell you something.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:02:34]: I think I forgot all about no That I wanted a girl first. So here we are. We're living in Hollywood, Florida. And I tell you, we came home, and I realized that, wow, No. It's finally happening. We've had we're here to have a girl. It was like, wow. Based off of my mother, my mother had boy, girl,.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:02:53]: Which I have been the oldest, and my sister was the youngest. And so I definitely wanted to complete that, at least have a girl and a boy in this lifetime. And now here it was. We're about to bring this little thing right here that we call Jaylah into the world, and it was just Nuts. So amazing. I can still see standing in the delivery room now, and even our oldest son was standing at the foot of the bed too. No He was witnessing her coming into the world as well, and that is just I'm doing a poor job being able to put it into words because I can never find the words for that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:27]: Now I hear from a lot of fathers that especially with daughters that there are times where the There is fear. There's fear in raising daughters, and I hear that a lot from a lot of dads. And I guess for you, what was or is your biggest fear In raising a daughter.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:03:44]: Okay. We already get to the beat of this thing already. Yes. So my daughter and my wife contend that It is the same raising girls as it is boys, and I contend that it's not. There's a lot of protectiveness And no fault of her own, but I just I have always just felt like, you know, that hedge of protection. If I can't be there, no I'm always worried even when she was away in college. From walking through the house at 2 o'clock in the morning, and I think about it, she gets a call at 2 AM in the morning.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:04:20]: And still sometimes now. And she may say, daddy, what in the world is going on? I said, oh, nothing. I'm good now. I just needed to hear your voice. But you just always wonder about something happening. And I and maybe we shouldn't think that way, but, You're just always wondering. With the boys, I feel like the boys, can handle themselves, but, you know, the daughter, the the daughter is everything. She you know, you think of her being left unprotected with no covering.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:04:49]: And, You know, and I gotta tell the truth here. And, you know, Chris, when we think about who we were as little boys, we understand why we were about our little girls. So Definitely.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:02]: And, Jaylah, how does that make you feel?

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:05:04]: Well, you know what? Honestly, if you had been asking me this question probably about about 4 years ago. I'd probably laugh and just think it was a joke. But, in all seriousness, I think now, having grown into, Domino's. A woman. I do think that it's it's very interesting because it's true to it. You know? And I think the older you get, the As a young lady, you start to see the world more. You see men like that. You know? You see me and dad's age. You actually you work with some of the men on dad's age and just in that male group, and you start to pick up on how men think, How they speak, how they view themselves, and how they view others, and women as well. It it does as a woman, I feel like When you get older, it does make you, be a little bit more grateful for that. And I've had the Different, friends and associates and different groups who grew up without fathers, and dads or or what have you. And it's very interesting the To hear the difference in the response to that question. So when you're younger, you always think, oh, oh, sure. You know, if I didn't have my dad, my dad's just controlling me. But now looking back, it's like, wow. You know? If you know, fathers need their daughters, and daughters honestly need their fathers. Yeah.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:06:26]: They really, really, really do.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:27]: Now, Aqeel, 1 question that I have to throw out your way is that you're a busy guy.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:06:33]: Yes, sir.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:34]: And you and I were joking about this before we started today, but you dip your toe in a lot of different water, And you've done a lot of different things in your career. And I guess first and foremost, I wanna what I wanna get into here is the Being as busy as you are, there's a balance that has to happen that you have to have in your life the To be able to be that dad that you wanna be. Talk to me about that road that you had to walk for you to be able to Balance the things that you had going outside of the house, outside of the family unit, and how you balance that with What you wanted to be as a person inside the family unit.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:07:17]: It's easy now that I'm already doing it, and I know the pattern that I set with the children. And I have what we call a three rule priority, and that three rule priority keeps me well balanced. And it goes, god, the Family handle your business. God family handle your business. God, family, handle your business. I am a no nonsense guy when it comes to my family is everything with me, And I teach them all the same. You can do everything in the world. And I hope I'm not jumping a gun here, but they were all raised.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:07:54]: Can't is not in the vocabulary. The I'm trying is not in the vocabulary. You're either doing it or you're not, and you can do. I'm a father that Not just saying cliche is that you can do whatever you wanna do. I'm a realist by saying, no. You can do it if you want to do it. That's just it.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:08:14]: But god, family handle your business. We don't compromise that at any point in life. No And so whether if I get a call and I'm on the road, it's god, family, handle your business. That's how it goes. And it's really as simple as that. And I I even, when I Council people. I talked to him about the same thing, and amazingly, it works.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:33]: And, Jaylah, I guess, as you hear that and, the You know, you think back to being raised in a family that is instilling that in you. Talk to me about what that was like for you as a the Young girl moving into womanhood, becoming a woman, now reflecting back on what you have been taught and how that's helped you or hindered you either way the In helping you to become who you are today.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:08:56]: So, actually, I do love that question because it is twofold. So based the what my dad was explaining is we have always in our household, even with the boys, made it about god. God is the center of everything. He's the head of everything. So the 1st father of the family is always gonna be god, and that relationship is very important because as I'm sure you know, because, you know, you explained you have the Children or child as well. You know that parenting has also been said to be very difficult as well. And having god at the the of everything. Sometimes when you don't understand your children or specifically your daughter, you look for answers too.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:09:34]: So it's not just us as daughters wanting all the answers like, the Why does my dad understand? Like, he doesn't get it. Mom, but she gets it, but dad just won't get it. I really feel like, you know, god holds the answers to relationship building. And a big part of relationship building is the communication piece. I feel like that's where a lot of times, daughters, when they're the Being raised, it's that communication piece. It's why won't dad understand me, or does dad understand me? And then vice versa, does my daughter understand what I'm the because this one thing to say, it it sounds good and and it does come off well, but a lot of time, there's a age gap as well where it's a disconnect. We're still trying to be kids. We're wanting to do what what's going on out in the world, especially when you attend, like, public schooling.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:10:21]: You're faced with different things every day, and the It's tempting, but god being the head and the center of everything is always what kinda draws you back to your roots, the Which in the end, goes based off of how you're raised, you're teaching. And so fast forward to now, it's very eye opening because everything I do in my daily life, it always the back to this one lesson that my dad taught me, and it's to take charge. And now when he first started saying this to me, I think I was probably midway through college. And every time I call them, I'm pumped. I'm in the mood. I'm in the the and I'm like, I'm gonna go ahead here. I'm gonna kill this interview, dad. I got the job or what have you.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:11:01]: And he's always like, listen. The I have nothing else to say. Say your prayers, you know, talk to god about it, and take charge. So recently, you know, it really has been on my mind, and I'm like, the What does it really mean to take charge? You know? And I just feel like as a as a as a female and, you know, as a woman and as a daughter, the To me, it's like owning the room that you're staying in. Whatever room you enter into, own the room. Like, the Like, you don't even have to know my name, but you should get the vibe of what I'm about, who I am, and the value that I hold. But so I think that a lot of times, dads, the They really bring that that foundational piece where it's like, take charge. Like, I am who I am, and I'm owning the room, well spoken.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:11:44]: The Like, you wouldn't even have to know my dad to know that I come from good raising just by speaking to me. So that's just, you know, a little bit of of of basically just his teachings and how They started to affect me over the years into now as, you know, a woman.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:11:59]: You know, Chris, can I just add to that? I'm fighting back the Tears right now. So you're about to get some real tears. I tell you, just hearing that is what every parent wants to hear, all the lessons that you've given in life. And what I have attempted to do, not build a machine, but and by god, this is not excluding my wife. But what I'm saying is is that Doug. What I have attempted to do is to lead by exam. And what I mean what I mean by that is if they see. And they've seen me not use excuses for where I am and the conditions that I'm in that can't work.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:12:36]: Then if I show them that it's possible, that and that's all it is. So I started to say, you know, how we had that phrase, think outside the box. The Well, every time I find those cliches, I add to it. So instead of thinking and and instead of me raising them to think outside the box, I tell them to think beyond the outside of the box. You see, because thinking outside the box has a limitation because once you're outside the box, you stop thinking. So I want you to think beyond the outside of the box, and then You create such a situation that you go from believing to knowing in God that it will work. Now we're not.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:13:13]: Not even talking about manifesting it, but I I stick to if you create it in your mind and you see it in your mind, You can do it, and it happens. And I'll I'll probably end up touching up on that a little bit more. So even to hear her talk, under and I'll I'll back off here, but I didn't have that Great confidence I had like that in school even though I was popular playing sports and everything. It wasn't until I got into the marine corps and got all around the world that I Had to build this up. And so what I realized was that you can be very confident and very assured in yourself without being conceded, and that's what I wanted to instill in them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:49]: So, Jaylah, let's reflect back then. How did your dad help you to find that confidence in your life? You talked about that the In college, it really kind of clicked. But think back to as you were younger and you were growing up with your brothers, what did Aqeel do to be able to help you to find that confident? And I know it's not just Aqeel because I know your mother as well, and I know that she is a part of the team. But talk to me about what your dad did specifically to help you to find that confidence to be the person that you are today.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:14:21]: I Can't honestly say I think it has a lot to do with the freedom of individualism. Parents, you guys talk a lot about the How it's different raising all of your children, whether they're boys or girls, is gonna be different for each one given being their personalities. So I think the the Freedom to have whatever personality we chose was the biggest thing for me. Like, I was more so of you know, I was the only girl. I'm the middle child, the And I was just full of personality. I'm singing this day bouncing all across the house. The next day, I wanted to run outside and be with the boys, and the I really think that it had a lot to do with giving us the freedom to experiment within our personalities. Dies.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:15:05]: And I didn't always get it right. Even, like I said, growing up, I started to have issues with my identity, like, just knowing who I was, being confident in who I was. The And I can say for females, we experience a lot of that due to going to puberty, a lot of things that. Take effect going into our teenage years and then our young adult years. A lot of it has to do with the Just the phases of becoming an adult. And so my biggest thing was growing up, went through this gap in this period of time where I was like, okay. The How do I become the young woman that I wanna be while also adhering to what god will want me to be, what the My parents will be proud of. Let's just be honest there as well.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:15:51]: For me, identity was a big thing, and it was just there were days when I was waking up, and I was just like, I'm just not seeing it. The Like, this can't be life. This can't be what it's like to kinda go through the phases of growing up and understanding who you are, and It took effect in my schooling. It took effect, at home, and there were issues there. But, you know, one thing about it is I think that the As parents and specifically having my dad around always since day 1 is that to feel like you're not left alone. The I think that's the biggest thing for me. Just having that male figure to know, like, your love, your light, that I'm not gonna give up on you because it's very easy.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:16:29]: I know. Plenty of females who have dads, but their dads aren't there. I feel like not a lot of people talk about this. When we talk about, you may have a parent physically, But are they there? Are they hearing you? Is there a connect? So definitely freedom of individualism and that room to grow, the room to make mistakes, Learn from your mistakes. Once you hit that age bracket where it's kinda like, yeah, dad can't tell you what to do. Yeah. But, you know, with the help of god, god is is gonna shape you up and the Lead you to where you need to be and definitely give you some lessons when you're drifting off a little bit.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:17:04]: So she said something very important. It's always been a practice of mine that Not that I didn't care about them making mistakes. The rule was I'm not concerned about if you make mistakes as long as you can give me the The evidence of why you chose what you chose. So that that gives them the freedom. So if they if they did something and even It wasn't right. I wanted to hear the plan to how they got there, what made them what made them and have a reason behind what they did. And that allowed them the freedom to discover the world and life, but it also helped them start decision making.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:17:42]: And then I was the crazy, father knows best kid, parent. You know? My thing was And then sometimes I would literally put it in their hands and let them choose the punishment, and that worked. And god blessed us with 3 beautiful children that Sometimes they even know if they said a punishment, they go, oh, not. That's not justified by what I did. And so it worked that way, And then I had to play a few marine corps games on them. Sometimes I'd storm through the house like I'm about to tear everything to pieces, and then that did it enough.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:18:13]: And I just turn around and walk away, and it leaves them thinking, oh my god. And the next time, I'm just quiet. So, you know, it's to keep it all balanced because, Again, we have to raise our children in such a way that it also presents the world. I didn't wanna be overboard. I'm sure they can probably name sometimes. They probably thought I was overboard, but If anything, I'll say this in a back off again. So much comes to mind. But I always told our children and I even told my wife.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:18:37]: I said, listen. And I know this is harsh,. But I'd rather you hate me or dislike me for guiding you the right way than to love me for letting you do what you want to do And knowing that's not

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:50]: the best way. I love that. Now, Jaylah, as I said before, your parents are both people that are involved in lots of different things. They have tried lots of different things, done lots of different things, and I know that, and I mentioned that already. So I know that they have had a lot of dreams for themselves, the A lot of dreams for you. How did they instill in you to be a dreamer for the life that you want for your life?

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:19:14]: You know, I feel like maybe that is the Probably the trickiest question you've asked me in this whole time. And I say that only because I do think that as the Time goes on, we have to be honest that the world changes. And the way that life is set up now is not how life used to be set up. And I do think that now, like, for me specifically, I have what they would call bigger dreams. And, like, back then, I'm sure you guys can relate. Back then, you were just wanting to be something. Like, man, I just gotta make I came up this way or I came up that way, and all I wanna do is be successful.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:19:50]: I need to have a good job to just be able to pay the bills, and that's great. But for me, personally, I the Honestly had bigger genes beyond my career, and I always like to make sure that there's a big differentiation. The Because what I do every day on the physical place that I go to, which in my case would be the bank, it's bigger than that. And I have to even Darcy. People at work. Like, you see me showing up. I'm gonna be punctual. I'm a be on time.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:20:15]: I'm gonna be here. I'm a be ready to work, but let's not get it twisted. There's more to Jaylah. The So right now in my life, I'm really big on my influencer type of world, and I have started now the Trending with these videos where I post, you know, where I'm getting ready for work. And I think, you know, the other day, I was thinking and I said to myself, No. I said, isn't that something that for someone else looking on the outside end, they'd see it as or I mean, you're just making videos. But for me, I was It's actually deeper than this.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:20:42]: Like, I actually gotta wake up and be on time. So for me, I'm like, look at the lessons. Look at those small lessons the that follow you. You know? And dad and, you know, my parents, they've always been big on show up on time. It says a lot about you. And let's be real. No. Every day, we don't always we're not always perfect, but it tells a lot about who you are and what you're about.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:21:04]: And so I said, It's also a form of discipline. So there's something that I really want beyond just my career that has a lot to do with the Renewal my state. Then it's very much possible that one day I can actually be in business for myself, whether that's a company, whether that's the Getting myself paid directly without there being a middleman. So those are my bigger dreams. Right now in my life, as I approach 25, the I'm very well focused on using my corporate job to get me to where I need to be from the individual standpoint. And As you can see for yourself, that's what my parents are about as well. Everything that they do, they wanna be impactful, but it's also it's them acting as an influencer.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:21:45]: People sometimes attach to you based off of how you influence others. So you have the option. You can be a bad influence instead of influence others, the Or you can choose to be a great influencer and be of something worth value.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:57]: And Aqeel, I guess as you hear that and you think about what the Intentionally, you did to try to help your kids to realize those dreams. Talk to me about that. What did you try to do On a daily basis, on an annual basis, on a yearly basis, or just in a day to day life to help your kids to be able to the Push them to think about those dreams in different ways.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:22:19]: So one of the things I did, I actually had a historical African American book set that I actually purchased that probably about no 3 or 4 years prior to even our 1st child born. And then each year, I just build on top of that. So the children were And when I say required, it was not the required where it was, like, mandatory. You have to read it by this time. It was that I always put a book in their hand. And it wasn't always like a African American history, but I'm very big on our culture, very big on self improvement. And so the other thing is having world knowledge. I developed this thing too that wherever I go, I always read something.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:22:59]: You don't have to read it all, But you just read. There are a lot of signs and pictures around. You just read it. If you just read 3 sentences off, maybe, like, 3 or 4 sentences off of it and move on, You'd be surprised how much knowledge you're you're gathering. And so and with each child just talking about our oldest son the other day. And so with that, including Jayla, so No. Our oldest son, it clicked for him.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:23:21]: He got cut from the middle school basketball team in, like, 7th grade. So 1st time we've had what they would call a failure. And so but when he came out, I was like, oh my god. Lord, I am not prepared for this. And so when he got in, I could see it all on his face, so I had to quickly come up with something. And what God gave me was, I asked him. I said, is there anything that you think that No.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:23:42]: You could have done better. And he just turned to me, and he was like, well, yeah. I mean, I I guess I coulda worked on this. And then I just simply said, No. Maybe that's it. Maybe that's the reason you didn't make the team. And something so small when I tell you that it No. His life in such a positive way that this kid never stayed in the house again.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:24:02]: He was always out doing it. Now kinesiology major, he's a fitness. He's a influencer. He started his own business, and we were talking about this the other day. He said that moment he told me he said that moment No. Really defined everything. With Jaylah, it was the same thing.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:24:19]: She talked about her identity. Well, oh, this was hard because Even with Jaylah, you talk about we moved from North Carolina to Michigan. She had only spent, like, 3 days in high school as a freshman, No. And then we moved here. So she went from a class of about or school for about, like, 300 to 400 kids and walked into eastern with about no 1700 kids, and she shut down. And I gotta say this. So then she wanted to transfer. And the very school that she wanted to transfer to, No.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:24:49]: Only being here a week ended up having a shooting. And then she said, no. I wanna stay at Easter. And so we just had to keep working with her and then instilling to her No. You are beautiful. And believe it or not, when you look at her now to whomever's looking at her, she struggled wondering, was she beautiful enough compared to a lot of her friends? And just having that confidence, and and that was it. So it was like, take charge. No.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:25:12]: You are who you are. You're more than what you think you are. Take your eyes off other people. And then the other thing is is that we want you to have a multiplicity of friends. We're not just locking down to one, culture, 1 race, 1 nationality, the influence. And so all of our children, I I guess that's us and them, No. Have that ability to connect to a multiplicity of people. And she has the personality like me.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:25:39]: She can walk into a field, and somebody would think No. That she was talking to a scarecrow, and she'd be talking to the ears of corn. And so that is the thing. Even down to our youngest son, he's a very factual person. So if you say, no. It's only 2 left. He's like, no. It's actually 2.13.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:57]: Now, Jaylah, you heard your dad just talk about the fact that, the You know, you tried to build your self confidence in the in the self confidence of both your brothers. And I hear that a lot the from other fathers that and I see it in my own daughters that today it seems like, the the The self confidence of a lot of daughters, but also the whether it's social media or other factors are the Definitely are making an impact on the self confidence that they have about themselves. As a influencer influencer yourself, the someone that has moved on with your life and have found some more of that self confidence for yourself. What do you say to other dads the About this, about how they can best instill that self confidence in their daughters.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:26:47]: So I would say, first and foremost, understanding that it can't just the be you. The daughter's confidence is not gonna just come from you solely. And I do believe that it's healthy, actually, the For a lot of dads not to feel attacked when, they do tell their daughters that they're beautiful, and their daughters just don't see it. The Let's just be honest. There will be many days where, you know, dads just just glorify. You are so beautiful. Oh my god. You're so smart.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:27:16]: The You're this and your dad is like, but that's not what the world's telling me. If I'm that, well, why am I not runner-up? You know? And I think that It's important to, again, to understand it. Like, let take me inside of your world and allow me to the See what you see as my daughter. And let's just be honest. Sometimes you gotta disassociate the father and daughter thing. Because even for you guys, as a dad, it's the Easy for me to sit here and say, you know, dad, you've been the best dad ever. Like, dad, you're so awesome. And, you know, for what my dad does in acting, it's like, the Imagine him going in in in in trying out or auditioning, for the top dad role.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:27:54]: The Let's just say he's everything. He's awesome. And I'm telling him, dad, you got that. Yo. You got it, dad. Trust me. There there is no dad talking you, dad. The And then he goes in, and they're just like, not quite. Something's just not you know, to him, it's like, the Hey. Well, my daughter's telling I'm the best dad. It don't get no better than me. But let's just be honest. There's there's these self, the tick boxes that we tend to check as individuals even. And so it does come with The mentality, and the self confidence. So it is about self at the end of the day.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:28:31]: And there are things that dads can do, the with words of affirmation, and actions of affirmation. So that is the biggest thing. Actions of affirmation, conquers all of the Them. You know, words sometimes feel good make us feel good, but actions are even better. So as as daughters, we don't always wanna, the You know, here that we're beautiful, you know, we wanna see it. You know? We wanna see it. Like, what does that mean to To to tell a daughter that she's beautiful, what do you see? You know? And for me, I feel like even too now in adulthood, I find the best value, in understanding also the things that I don't do well because I feel like that's honest. That's where that truth, Dom.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:29:15]: Comes from so my dad will tell you all the time, like, you know, if if if he gets on video chat with me or if he gets on FaceTime with me, And I'm just not having a good day. I had rolled out of bed. I hadn't combed my hair or anything. He's looking at me like, okay. What's going on? What is going on? This is not my daughter. The And for me, it's just you know, I just understand that that means, like, he sees me. He knows enough about me to know the When I'm having a bad day, when something just isn't there, and then he can go in and provide that reassurance. Like, you know, you're doing it well.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:29:47]: You're doing things right. The You know, it's just something that comes with, with life. So like I said before, 1st and foremost, understanding that the You guys' dads don't always have all the answers. Everything's not gonna be perfect. You can't just, you know, say a thing or two and make it all better. Just just the process.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:30:05]: That was amazing because, Chris, what I heard there and what I wanted to say, and it oh my gracious. It prompted Domino's. Is to understand that these things that she talked about make us great dads. So if we didn't have the if we didn't have the shy daughter, we didn't have the Going daughter. We didn't have the trouble daughter. We didn't have this type of daughter. We didn't have this. How would we grow? With the boys, we sorta got that.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:30:27]: Not that we have it all down pat, but no It's more relate With the girls, the girls are like mini wives. I know this is about dads and daughters, but I think about my wife. It's something that my wife tells them too, And she'll she'll tell me. And she'll just simply say, Jaylah, what I always say? And what does mama always say? And who's gonna tell you that it's not work? Who's gonna tell you that it don't look good? And it's a mentality that you take on. And so seeing her, just going at it and going after not just something, no But naming it and going after it, that make it's more than just proud. It lets us know that they are really coming into their own, And that's the most beautiful thing. It's not about whether you make multimillionaires or billionaires. The value in it is the success.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:31:15]: What they want to accomplish, not with mom and dad. And that was what we did even with schooling. No. You do not have to be around you. Be around us when you go to school. Get as far away as you want as long as they make plain as trains of automobiles, we're good.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:29]: So true. Now one of the things that I would love to hear from both of you is the In this relationship that you've built over the years, there are opportunities to be able to have things that the are unique to the 2 of you, things that you share together that are important to the 2 of you. What the Has been a favorite thing that the 2 of you share together that is unique to your relationship.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:31:55]: So, okay, one of the things is our craziness. No It's just something about when we get together, we're gonna cut up. It's just spontaneous. I was just telling them we were just down from my mother's funeral in December, And we were talking about I said, wow. I miss us not being able to just be in the kitchen and start singing, you know, because she loves to sing. And honest to god, I told her I I I remember telling her, like, this is some years ago. This is before she even left home. I told her I said, you know, you're my favorite singer. And she thought I was joking, but it's just something about when she sings. It's like, you're my favorite singer. And in church a couple of weeks ago, A lady visited, and she sung Eyes on the Sparrow. And that's the song that I love my daughter to sing. But when I tell you just No. Endless laughter. It's like nobody's trying to be pretty.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:32:41]: We're not trying to be framed up. We develop a space to where we can really Be ourselves. And I know that that's what we share, but I love to see her strength. I even love the pushback. I shouldn't have told her that here live, but I love the pushback because no It tells me again that she's growing, and it also tells me that she does respect me because that's something that I Theo. So my wife and I, we don't want them to think like us or to be like us. We want them to be way much better than us. And so no It that that's the that's the thing.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:33:14]: I just love the freedom to where we can be across the room, and I could just look at it. She look at me, and we can just bust out laughing because we already know what the thought And

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:33:22]: I'll add to that. Like dad said, you know, it's personality. I I know that you can agree to Christopher even with, you know, your daughter that the It it's a personality match thing. Sometimes as parents, I know you see a lot of, you know, yourselves and and your children. So Domino's. I think for us, we just like I said, we have just that down to earth relationship. It's not always perfect, because it's a learning the experience, but it's definitely one of those things where my dad's gonna look back even in the next couple of years. You know, as I approach 30, that's the but it's gonna be interesting for them.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:33:57]: It's gonna be fun, growing experience. And then even when I move on to have children, the Oh, it's definitely gonna be 10 times more interesting to see how my children take after the things that my parents have instilled Dom. So I just think that as life goes on, you you develop your own ways, but you also still it's like you never detach the From the parenting skills that have shown in how you were raised by your parents.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:23]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood five, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you. And, usually, it's just a dad, but it's not gonna be just a dad this time. We're gonna ask both of you some questions. The So, Jaylah, I'm gonna start with you. In one word, what is fatherhood?

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:34:40]: I'll say accountability. That is a tough word. It can be so harsh, But I will say accountability. And I feel like accountability only because if you relate it back to the real world, the Accountability always reverts back to you as an individual. How does what you produce, or I should say your seed. What does it reflect about you? What does it tell about you? What does it tell about the things that you do well? What does it tell about the things that you the still need a little bit more help with. And so no matter whether it's the good or whether it's the, you know, not so good, it's a lesson in in itself, and it's the Always that room for growth and development as long as you're willing to take accountability within that process. In a queue?

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:35:26]: To my word normally, I wouldn't use this word, but with describing god, and I'm gonna say ubiquitous. And that is to be Uniquely who you are all the time, everywhere with the same power, with the same authority, and with the same strength. Because, Uniquely, no matter what, your family needs to see whom you are in all those situations. So whether it's hard, it's peaceful, it's stress They need to know, and I guess this goes back to the accountability part. They need to know, are you gonna stand on what you say you stand on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:02]: Now, Jaylah, when was the time that you feel like your dad finally succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:36:08]: So I will say A few years back, gosh, I would have been, at that time, feeling middle school. I was in school and personality. Right? You know your kids, the All of them. And you know how they're different. So you know what they're capable of, what sounds like them, and what doesn't sound like them. And I've always been a talker in class. The Neither, you know, my brothers nor myself were the extreme disrespectful type, so we wouldn't be at school the Disrespecting adults.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:36:35]: That that's definitely not the case. So this particular incident, teacher calls dad specifically, And it's just, like, in a huge uproar. Like, Jaylah is just she is just is not there. She's being rude. She's just saying things. She's Noes. Just clown and all. She's acting like a pretty fool at school.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:36:57]: And, you know, as much as I in my head, I said to myself, and I remember the Telling my friends and my other cousins that went to the same school as me. I said, it's over with now. The teacher done spoke, so my voice don't even count. The When a teacher calls dad, it's just gonna be the adult's word, and I'm just gonna sit over here in the corner and deal with the consequences. But, Ashley, it actually didn't feel that way. He showed up, and, again, communication and understanding, Dom. He listened.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:37:24]: And then he also gave me the opportunity to speak. And for once, I felt heard, and I felt like my voice matters. So it also gave me the opportunity the To be honest, just let them know I just said, hey. This is the type of day that the Tisha was having. The Tisha was actually very frustrated. And based off what you taught me, You taught me that if this is the case, then this is what should happen. And in so many words, like he said, what we would call in 2024, the He stood on business, and he basically addressed the situation for what it was. We raised Jaylah to, first and foremost, always respect her adults, the But all actions can't necessarily be respected.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:38:04]: Because if you teach your children and you raise your children, the Follow underneath, you know, god's teaching and god's word. We know that even adults, like, all adults don't follow that pathway. We've had especially nowadays in time where teachers come to school and they're frustrated, they have realized, and they bring those burdens to school as well. And so that does affect sometimes how they incorporate that in education and being able to handle and deal with other people's children as well. And so he just touched a little bit on that and just said that these are the expectations that when we send our children to school, she's treated fairly. She's treated equally. The She's heard just as you would want your children to be heard. And for once, literally, in in in my younger younger days of living in middle school, I I felt heard, and I just I enjoyed that part of his fatherhood and him being able to be there for me and and give me a voice.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:55]: And what about you, Aqeel? The What's the time that you feel like you finally succeeded as a father to a daughter?

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:39:03]: I can't name a no Specific time write off. I'm sure if you gave me a little bit more time, but it it would be surrounding an incident just like this. And so in other words, when she when with the 1st or 2nd or 3rd time in a continuous behavior that she comes to me and has a conversation with me, and she says, dad, I'm thinking about doing this. No I wanna do this. I felt accomplished in because for your child and yes. And I would go on the limb and say, especially your daughter, to feel Even if she even though she has a little nervousness that she felt that freedom and that comfort to know that she can come and talk to you about something. And let's just say the hard topic.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:39:39]: Our daughters with boyfriends and guys they may like to come and talk to us about why they make certain decisions, why they may wanna make certain decisions, And it was beautiful. That was it. And, I think one other time is there maybe a b side to that. Right before Jaylah graduated with her bachelor's Northwood. She wanted a car. I may never forget this, and, she ended up posting on Facebook probably a year before, and I just happened to see the post. So I pick up the phone and I call her.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:40:09]: I go, so what's going on? It's like nothing, daddy. I said, yeah. So I saw this picture that you posted a car. So what's going on? The out of that came, she had been looking for a car, and I was like, woah. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:40:25]: Let's think about this. And so we talked that out. And lo and behold, the very next year, she still hadn't graduated. But She told me she said, dad, well, what she called me now, and we had this various conversation. What do you think about me buying a car now? And I so I told her. I said, well, listen. This is what's happening. I said, If you save your money, whatever you save, I'll match, and then we'll purchase a vehicle. Well, lo and behold, I met a gentleman that, you know, went at the dealership. No And, anyway, so through talking, I talked to him a price range and everything, and he said, oh, no problem. Well, the 1st car I sent No. Somebody ended up buying or they didn't wanna sell it or something to sometime. And, anyway, we found it again. So I said, well, Jaylah, I said, oh, I found one.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:41:04]: Nice car. It's clean. No lights on anything. And I said, I'm sure of this. I said, and here's the price. And she says, No. Okay. And I said, well, understand now.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:41:13]: You gotta pay tags, insurance. I'll handle all of that stuff part for you, but gotta have this. So do you at least have half of this? She says, oh, I'm good. I got that. I said, that didn't sound right. I was like, what do you mean you got that? She was like, oh, I'm good. I got that. I was like, you mean you got the Half of that? Or you say she's like, no. I got the whole thing.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:41:30]: And I was like

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:41:31]: Christopher, I didn't blink. Yeah. That's it.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:41:34]: Are you serious? So yeah. And so she literally bought And paid 4 in 4 her very first car. And that was when I that was another level then that I realized. No. So we didn't know that the day we dropped her off at college that she also started working probably that same week, And we didn't know that. She kept that as a secret, but I guess that business degree was really working.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:41:58]: I will add to that really briefly as we wrap up. It's very interesting because that was a very hard lesson in life, and I think this is really gonna wrap up our conversation surrounding dads with daughters and just fatherhood as the As a whole, is that I contemplated this so much because the rule of thumb was always you're not gonna get a job, you're the You're gonna focus on studies, what have you. And I sat in that room all night long, and I said, I gotta get a job. I gotta get a job. I can't do it. I gotta get this job. And so I said to myself, I said, I would be being rebellious because I would be getting a job with Doubt. Saying anything and doing it even though I know that that wasn't the expectation.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:42:43]: But I said to myself, I said, how cool will it be to prove the My parents, wrong, but also right at the same time. And just to touch base on that, the idea is that, you know, hey. You know, it gets the be overwhelmed. And when you work a job and you go to school at the same time, people typically don't do well. But I think that just showed how cool your specific children are when they are able to conquer that. So I remember I finished that semester, and the only thing I brought up was grades. And I say, you know what's gonna be interesting the It's to not only show them that I got the grades, but how I got the grades that I was working full time would say that. Dom.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:43:20]: It was honestly like a cool experience for me because for once in my life, I got a chance to prove that, yes, I get this was the plan, But, you know, I can be trusted. Like, I can work hard. That discipline is definitely to come. That won't be the the the first and last time that I may have to kinda, like, go a little bit around the parents, but in life, that's just how things end up sometimes. You don't expect, the You know, your children are go certain paths even like I said, for the oldest even, dad will tell you is just that we don't always go the route the that you think we're gonna end up going. But either way, we come out on top and success. And that right there, she that in a nutshell, that was exactly it. So allowing them the space to grow, to use their ingenuity, that's exactly what we taught them. So it was it's beautiful to know that was it. That's another level of showing that, oh, they really got it. They really understand the assignment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:16]: Now, Jaylah, if I was to talk to you and your brothers. How would you guys all describe your dad?

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:44:21]: I would actually say disciplined, but meaningful slash the Purposeful. And just a little bit on that, I say strict slash discipline because his teachings, they seem harsh at first. The Sometimes they seem a little way out there and over, you know, over the top. They do they it does seem extreme, But I can honestly say it's so funny how it always comes full circle, and it has a deeper purpose behind it. And, you know, the oldest, he has become just this scientifically factual person just as well as the youngest. And for myself, I'm kinda in the middle. Like, I'm not, the You know, too big on the facts and the scientific behind it, but after I found I finished my master's of science degree, it really taught me how to look at things the or what they are in terms of experiment. And as you know, when you conduct the experiments, there's always these findings.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:45:14]: So why this calls this? And I think that just goes back to what you put in is a big result of what you get out. So a lot of the things that he has instilled in us has developed and got it a lot of what we put into things At full cycle, sure enough, it comes back the great results that we have seen to get throughout the journey of what we've been pursuing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:40]: The Now, Aqeel, who inspires you to be a better dad?

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:45:42]: Life has just really done that. Having grown up the oldest of 2 children, you know, I say these people, they start laughing because No. Know my story. Well, my children do it. I just say and my wife. And I say my biological parents, they separated and divorced when I was 6 or 7 years old, And I watched my mom do it. And my mom would literally go to work and survive off of.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:46:04]: Was it 25, 35¢ nabs and a soda? And I never knew that for all my life, but she always made sure we had. But she the one thing that she always said, she told my sister and I, she says, don't ever let me hear you say you hate your dad because No. She said your father. She says regardless of what happens between us, your father is still your father, and that reigned with me through my life. And so it has always been with me because psychology tells you that you're basically No. Gonna be like your parent, or the guy's gonna the man is gonna be like your father. And my father has some strongholds, and I didn't partake in those. No.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:46:47]: And I remember being older, maybe about in my thirties, and there was another psychologist who was taking, we were in academy, and he said this And I rebelled. I said, that's not true. I said, I don't smoke. I don't drink, and I have a great relationship with my family. So I said, Dom. That's not always true. So who inspires me to be better? My family.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:47:10]: The last thing I wanna do is fill my family, wife included.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:47:15]: Now you both have given a lot of pieces of advice today, a lot of things that, have helped both of you in the journeys that you've been on together. Jaylah, as we finish up today, what's 1 piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:47:27]: Be you. And I would say to be you because there's nothing worse than the A dad getting frustrated because he can't feel another dad's shoes. When you trust the process and you you learn to be the dad that You're supposed to be. Everything works out in the end. I feel like a lot of fathers go wrong when, you know, they follow that the Society's idea of I'm gonna be the number 1 dad, number 1 super dad. It's always it's been like that for years. There's always been that, You know, that box where there's, like, dads have to be perfect. Like, I've gotta be perfect dad.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:48:04]: I've gotta be the dad that's just super nice and sweet all the time. I can't say anything. I can't discipline. I just gotta be perfect. I've gotta be light. And my dad touched on that a little a little bit earlier too is is, You know, you don't always wanna be the dad that's liked because I almost wanna bet you that you're probably not gonna get the best results always being the dad that's liked. So, yeah, to just be you. Haniqeel?

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:48:26]: I think it goes just in those 2 words. I think when we look at that, and I'm sure you can relate to this, the Just in hearing dad versus your child or your daughter saying, this is my father, it does something right here in in in your the spirit right in your heart because a father is everything that we've talked about in this interview. That's not a dad. And so as Jaylah just said, no. I've never attempted to be like another man. I always think Beyond the outside of the box. And I wanna make the mold for myself, and everybody's position is unique.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:49:04]: And so I wanna be uniquely me and improve on me daily, and so I Do Continue to develop ways to better myself and my family. And so still to this day, what I do periodically is No. I send them self improvement messages as well and affirmation. I still send those out. So the way that my that my mother always said, she No. Despite how old you get, you're gonna always be my baby.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:49:33]: Now, Jaylah, I know you mentioned that you are becoming a social influencer. You're doing things out there. People get to know you in different ways outside of the work that you're doing at the bank. As we finish up today, if people wanna find out more about you, where should they go?

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:49:46]: Yes. So please follow me on Instagram at jaylah.iman_ the Well, you'll also find out that I am a full time photographer as well, and I do the Travel occasionally as well for my very own business, Lady J productions, and then you can also find me on TikTok at jaylah dot Iman as well. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:50:11]: Thank you for being here. And Aqeel, as I said before, you're busy. You're out there. If people wanna find out more about you, where's the best place?

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:50:18]: And please forgive me. I don't wanna sound over the top. I really just learned this from a couple of fans. Google me. I think everything pops up. That's so crazy to even do that. It's, I and so I literally had to do that one day. I googled myself, and I'm like, oh my god.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:50:34]: But, yes, Google me, Aqeel T. Ash-Shakoor or Aqeel Ash-Shakoor on Facebook. Again, Aqeel Ash-Shakoor. Instagram, Aqeel the actor. YouTube, again, Aqeel Ash-Shakoor, And my background is not showing now, but Empowered Minds, I do a lot of, Again, self improvement videos to spiritual videos as well.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:50:55]: So yes. And don't wanna plug, but

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:50:57]: Catch him on TV. Grab your popcorn. Grab the guys.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:51:02]: Been blessed to be a, recognizable face on the Law and Order SVU and Quite a few other to dig with projects and some movies and on television. And something that I'd really just found out, I didn't know that I'm actually presented as one of the No. When they do the Peacock advertisement for the shows, and someone's telling me he's like, I see you every day. I was like, impossible. No boy. He's like, no. I see you every day.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:51:27]: And I was like, really? It's like, wow. So that's an that's an honor within itself. Small town country boy that made an affirmation at 9 years old to his baby sister that one day, this is what I would do. And that's what has been instilling in my family that we do. And my daughter bless she did bless me about a couple of weeks ago. I read a post, And I confirmed it with her, and she said in the post, I just saw it, and it brought me to tears. I didn't tell her that part.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:51:57]: But She says my father made legends. And what else can you say? I'm a blessed husband and father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:52:04]: Well, Aqeel, well, Jaylah, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here, for telling your story, for being raw and open about the journey that you've been on, and I wish you both the best.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:52:15]: No Thank you so

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:52:16]: Yes. Thanks for having us, Christopher. Thank you.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:52:18]: And for your fans, Christopher, I want them to know that this wasn't just No. A pop up. I've appreciated you ever since learning of you and knowing you for years as my wife, Tanisha, was in Thomas Cooleyham Law School, No. And you've always been a familiar face and always, a pleasant person to talk to. And back then, it was also go lug nuts.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:52:42]: No. Yes.

Jaylah Ash-Shakoor [00:52:43]: That's it.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:52:43]: So yeah. Yeah. You you've always been special in our lives too, so no Thank you. Thank you ever so much. And for my 1st interview, I think I did that with dad with sons. Some time ago, we did an article. So, I I I applaud the work that you're doing. And and if I could be of help, please give me a call.

Aqeel Ash-Shakoor [00:53:01]: Thank you, sir.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:53:03]: If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood the insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. The Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step road maps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, the But more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together daughter. Of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. The We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week all geared to helping you raise strong and powered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:54:01]: We're all in the same boat, and it's the Full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. Them. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring the AK because those kids are growing fast. The time goes the just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen, the Carpenters and musclemen get out and be the world to Them. Be the best dad you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.