Dads With Daughters w/ Dr. Christopher Lewis

In this episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, host Christopher Lewis welcomes Sean Harvey, the Chief Compassion Officer and founder of the Warrior Compassion Men's Studio. Sean is passionate about helping men heal their wounds at a soul level to embrace the truth of who they are. He co-founded Project Compassion, a coalition of culture transformation, masculinity, and compassion experts, focusing on working with police departments and military services. Sean recently released his book, "Warrior Compassion: Unleashing the Healing Power of Men," which serves as a roadmap for men's soul healing and systems change.

Sean shares his journey into men's work, a 10-year transformational path that started when he worked for Eileen Fisher, a women's fashion company. He discusses the impact of the company's feminine leadership on men and how it led him to engage in men's work. He also emphasizes the importance of a soul-level approach to healing and compassion, acknowledging that men need to heal unmet needs, limiting beliefs, and past traumas.

Christopher and Sean talk about breaking down barriers related to words like "vulnerability" and "compassion," emphasizing the need for an environment where men feel safe to open up. Sean highlights the importance of self-compassion and loving oneself unconditionally as a catalyst for positive change within families.

They discuss Sean's book and its guided journey, outlining various components of healing and transformation. The book is an on-ramp for men to engage in meaningful conversations and contribute to the transformation of society's oppressive systems. Sean encourages men to find a community where they can go deep and connect with others to combat loneliness and isolation.

In their conversation, they explore how embracing deeper connections, intimacy, and love can lead to healing and transformation, allowing men to become more patient, reflective, and present fathers. They also stress the significance of having a community of men who check in on each other.

This episode reinforces the importance of community, compassion, and self-discovery as essential steps for men on their journey to becoming the best dads they can be and healing themselves in the process.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:

Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, you and I are on a journey together. We're figuring this out as we go along. There is no one right way to father, and there's not one right way to go through life as a man as well. And, You know, every week, we have opportunities to be able to talk about this, to be able to delve a little bit deeper into this, to see what each of us can do to be Engaged, present, and be a part of our family's lives. And I do that. We do that Through talking with other guests as well.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:01]:

And every week, I have the pleasure of bringing different people on with different Experiences coming from different walks of life that are able to provide you with Tools for your own toolbox that can help you to start thinking about things in different ways and potentially framing things in different ways that will help you To be better in all sense of the word. This week, we've got another great guest with us. Shawn Harvey is with us. And Sean is the chief compassion officer and founder of the Warrior Compassion Men's Studio And Symphonia Facilitator Studio. And he is actively involved in contributing to men's work communities around the globe And he's passionate about helping men heal their wounds at a soul level to begin to love the truth of who they are. Sean cofounded the, Project Compassion, a national coalition of culture transformation, masculinity, and compassion experts Developing a compassion centered system change model and consulting approach for police departments and federal law enforcement agencies, Military service security forces and defense. And most recently, he has a brand new book called Warrior Compassion, Unleashing the healing power of men that was just released, and this book really offers a road map for men's soul healing As a catalyst for systems change. I'm really excited to have him on to talk more about the journey that he's been on to help men around the world And about this brand new book, and I'm excited to have him here today.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:46]:

Sean, thanks so much for being here.

Sean Harvey [00:02:48]:

Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:50]:

It is my pleasure having you here today. Love what you're doing. Love the the the concept. Like, I wanna turn the clock back in time because You've done a lot of different things that have led you to where you are today. You and I you and I were talking about all the different degrees and all the different aspects and all the things you've done in your career. But I guess first and foremost, as I talked about the fact that that you are the chief compassion officer and founder of Warrior Compassion Men's studio. So talk to me about Warrior Compassion Men's Studio and this work that you've been doing over many years to Work with men at this, maybe I could even say visceral level of being able to talk to men About things that not every man wants to talk about. What led you to that, and what led you into working with men at this level?

Sean Harvey [00:03:39]:

Well, I, I appreciate the years you've added to the experience. This has really been a 10 year journey. So on my 40th birthday, I was I was As a college professor, I was working on Wall Street. And on my 40th birthday, I gave it all up because I lost my heart and soul in the job, and I resigned. And within 2 weeks, I went to work for a fashion company, Eileen Fisher. And it was there that my whole life turned upside down. It was like it basically Saying yes to that role changed the trajectory of my life and brought me to men's work. So actually working in a women's fashion company brought me to men, which Hey.

Sean Harvey [00:04:16]:

Hey. I think there were 3 pivotal moments in my experience at Eileen Fisher. 1, I just to get the job, I had gone through an 8 month interview process. And on my 1st day I started the job, my 2 bosses sat me down, and they said they said to me, Sean, we we wanna acknowledge that You have proven yourself in the interview process. We now want you to stop proving yourself and learn how to be who you actually are. When you interviewed with us, you showed us your heart, and you showed us your polish. We hired you for your heart, and we wanna see less of your polish. We don't care about your accomplishments.

Sean Harvey [00:04:49]:

We wanna see who you are. And so that really, I think, was permission to be able to start going on my own journey. Then they the company sent me to an art for 5 months in Canada To learn how to incorporate the arts in a creative facilitation, and so it's part of my work. And it was the 1st weekend that I was there that I really heard the call to work with men. And and I and I had gone to work for Eileen Fisher to not have to work with men ever again. So knowing that I was being called to work with men. I knew this was above my pay grade, and I knew this was on some sort of spiritual path, and it was more of a calling. And so I just started following the spiritual breadcrumbs.

Sean Harvey [00:05:30]:

And the third, I became the head of personal transformation and well-being for the company. And I started noticing in the company how men were being transformed by being in an organization, in a company that was 83% women, That was really built on feminine leadership and and the business model was based on feminine energy. And the men would say to me now we would talk about the ways we were changing, It would often start with either my wife said or my girlfriend said that I listen differently. I'm more patient. I stopped needing to do right all the time, and I started to be more curious. I started to express my emotions more freely. And they the men started noticing that they were tapping into their creativity differently, and they were solving problems in new ways. And last, and I think most important, they would tell me they felt more comfortable in their own skin because I think there's a freedom that was allowing men to just kinda come into who they really were.

Sean Harvey [00:06:22]:

And I said, you know, we need to kinda bottle this and take this out to more men as opposed to the 200 men that work in this company we only accounted for 17% of the organization. And so with that and and there were also a lot of spiritual teachers and guides, and there was A lot of spirituality at work. I knew if we're gonna do real work with men, that's gonna be healing work. It had to be done at the soul level, and that's what led me to seminary. And I went to seminary for the sole purpose of working with men and really creating a men's ministry of sorts, which is essentially what I'm doing. And 2 days after I said my vows, I received the next call, which was to work with police. So I was moving from New York to Asheville, North Carolina, From East Harlem, New York to West Asheville, North Carolina. And it was the chief of police of the Asheville Police Department.

Sean Harvey [00:07:09]:

There's a video that I received, and then it was Post George Floyd, there was a there was a Black Lives Matter protest. Police were called in. They destroyed a medic tent. They made national news, and this was a Call to reform the department and if if members of the community wanted to be part of police reform efforts. I emailed the next day because in seminar, they say when you hear the call, you say yes no matter what, even if you don't think you're qualified. But because of my credentials and my background, that led to a 1 on 1 with the chief of police. And In our conversation, he asked me 2 things. He had 2 asks.

Sean Harvey [00:07:42]:

Can I help him deepen the level of compassion for his officers? And can I create conversations between community members and officers that humanize each other for a new relationship going forward? And I said yes It's what I do. And that ask led to a group of us finding each other. And the, you know, members of the FBI, Someone on our team is the former head of the FBI National Academy at Quantico, military officers, culture experts, masculinity folks, And we all came together and formed this national initiative. And as I had started coming into the men's work and started to see that this was My area, you know, working with police, military, defense, and working with really, when I left Asheville moved to DC, and everyone that was reaching out to me, they were they were operating they were working in hypermasculine systems. So police, military, the NFL, all of these places that you could consider male dominated, traditionally masculine or hypermasculine, And really bringing this message of compassion into the fold. And I think at the at the root of of the healing, you call it soul healing, you call it compassionate healing, What is how to help men deepen their level of compassion?

Christopher Lewis [00:08:59]:

Let's talk about that a little bit because sometimes for men, words can be triggering When you talk about being vulnerable, being compassionate, using some words can throw up roadblocks in front of us As men. And some of that comes from the way that we grew up. Some of it's society. There's lots of different pieces. So Talk to me about in the work that you do, either 1 on 1 or with groups. How do you start to break down those barriers that those words potentially Can build so that you get to the inner core and the inner person underneath.

Sean Harvey [00:09:43]:

So I would agree that these words can be triggering, and I'm very intentional about the language I use. And because I believe Language can be used to reclaim and reframe. And so if it is trigger triggering or activating, I get curious about what that's about. But at the same time, I I think part of it, For me, that allows me to come into the spaces is is is a combination of energy, the energy I bring in, the invitation I offer, The approach that I take and my story. And I've been able to go to some of the Craziest communities or or or wildest communities where I would not expect to be received, and I'm able to be Dave, I'm able to be heard. In the probably 7 years 7 or 8 years I've been doing this, not 1 person has ever objected to what I'm saying. I've never gotten feed pushback on the message. And I think part of that is my approach.

Sean Harvey [00:10:41]:

I think part of that is that I speak to the yearning of men that they can't articulate. And I think it's something that men are often craving yearning yearning for. And then when given the right that they can hear, there's a receptivity. I found early on, it's not about the head on collision. It's the drive by. When I've gone to the direct jugular of the issue, That doesn't usually bring bring folks in. But if there's an opening that guys can see themselves in and I think where we are, especially because I I am a I am a queer, progressive New Yorker who works with conservatives and then the right wing echo chamber. And I work with From conservatives to white nationalists and far right extremists on their healing work.

Sean Harvey [00:11:26]:

And the common thing I hear is that they find me nonthreatening, and they feel safe opening up. So that becomes less about the words I use and more the environment I create For them to be able to feel safe enough to be able to start to explore. And I and I think the other pieces and I I think a lot of a lot of what I've seen And a lot of this type of work is someone showing you the way, which I think can we're like a man to constrict. This is the way to be a man. This is what manhood is. This is the definition of masculinity, and I don't do any of that. I come from a place of I mean, as a professor, I was always using Socratic method. I'm just Always asking the questions.

Sean Harvey [00:12:07]:

And I believe this is more of an inquiry that for each man to define The definitions for himself based on his own experience, and, also, this is really the work of helping him find his own truth, Not for him to acquiesce to a narrative or a truth that defines sin, where we've had enough folks Giving us in a society, giving us definitions of the should, of how we should be. And I am always saying, let's just break the script and say, alright. So Who are you? And those sorts of things, I think, just create openings for the conversation and also is has to do a lot of bridge building across the conservative and progressive divides. And coming in without an agenda has opened a lot of doors to be able to have those types of conversations.

Christopher Lewis [00:12:56]:

So one of the things I probably should have asked at the beginning is that you work on healing. Define for me what your definition of healing is and why the men that you're working with or many men may need some healing in their life.

Sean Harvey [00:13:14]:

When I was writing the book and we were coming up with the title, the book was written out of out of a program at Georgetown. And we talked about this, that For a lot of men, they're hearing the message that they have to change because something's broken. They're broken. Something's broken. And we, you know, we said, no. That's not what it is. Many men are wounded because we're human. The challenge is a lot of us are wounded, but we don't have access to the healing.

Sean Harvey [00:13:40]:

We don't have access to the ways of connecting, reaching out for self care. When we look at the rates of suicide addiction, violence, Depression, trauma. The numbers for men are are continue to rise and are typically Double or triple more than women. And at the same time, when we start to look at them for police and and military and vets, Those numbers even go higher. And so I think it's that the healing is and what I I define it in the book, healing our our unmet needs, Our limiting beliefs and our shadow. And the traumas we've experienced, the wounds that we faced from early in in our lives as well as Things that happen or the experiences we've had in our lives that we just keep going and and don't deal with it, don't dwell on it, And don't give attention to it and think that everything will be fine. And the reality is it carries with us. So my book really reflects my healing journey, and then I really dissected all the different components from my healing journey That I can be think could be helpful for men could be anything from connecting to nature, finding community with men, Learn relearning how to play to, you know, ex exploring psychedelics, healing the inner child wounds, healing the You know, the list goes on and on of what I incorporate into the book, but it's really just offering a road map of these are different ways you can think about Healing, and you can really be in an inquiry for yourself of what's gonna help you discover your own truth beyond the protective layers that you've created From conditioning and life in general.

Christopher Lewis [00:15:20]:

I know you work with all types of men. Some are fathers, some are not. For the men that you work with that Our fathers, how do you find that this work helps them to be Either more engaged or more present or more themselves within that family dynamic.

Sean Harvey [00:15:40]:

I think it's the first thing I said about How what men say how they were transformed Ryan Fisher. They become more patient. They're more patient with their kids. They're more patient with their wives or or partners. They listen differently with with a different level of of understanding. They have an ability to self manage their anger. They're more reflective. And, Ultimately, I believe this work is about deepening your own.

Sean Harvey [00:16:03]:

When we talk about deepening compassion, what what I'm really talking about 1st, starting with your own self compassion. And, ultimately, what this book is about is helping men learn to love in a new way from and, I just gave a sermon last week. It was called From Love With Conditions to Unconditional Love. And when you can move from an intellectualized version of love with conditions To a visceral experience of unconditional love, that's gonna have a ripple effect in your family and for everyone in your family.

Christopher Lewis [00:16:31]:

We've been talking about the the book that is out now, Warrior Compassion unleashing the healing power of men. And I know in that book, it is a guided journey. It's It's talking about your own experience, but also the work that you've been doing. As you are putting this book out in the world, I know how much time and effort it takes to write a book. I've I am an author. I know that it is a passion project for many, many hours and many, many weeks and months and sometimes years. So as you put this out into the world, what is your biggest hope in regard to those that are reading this and what you want them to take out of the book.

Sean Harvey [00:17:13]:

I see this as an on ramp for men to come into the bigger picture of How we're transforming society and that an organization development practitioner by training systems thinker. When I look at when I see the world that is crumbling before us and the systems that are crumbling around us, the oppressive systems, that this is an on ramp for more men to be part of the conversation. This is an on ramp For men and women and those beyond the binary to be able to come together in new ways and solve problems deeper and Solve problems in a new way from a level of deeper consciousness and collective wisdom. To get to that place of deeper consciousness and where love is at the root of How we reframe systems, being able to have more men engaged in that by doing their own work, doing their healing work. Because I think right now what we have is society of a lot of men in power who are holding on to power from a place of wounding, not a place of healing. And so, ultimately, that has been my driver for all of us and for us to be able to get to a place of moving from fear based control to love based liberation in the ways that our systems Some institutions operate in the world.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:20]:

One of the things that comes to mind as I think about this work is that for many men, it may be that They don't know where to start, and they know that something needs to change. And in the book, I'm sure that there are some specific steps. But If there's one thing that you would want men to start doing right now as they look at their own life, As they look at the lives that they have with people around them, what's one thing that they should start doing today or that they can Start implementing today within their own life that can help move them and move the needle in that positive direction.

Sean Harvey [00:19:02]:

Yeah. I always say that the 1st step, and it's the 1st step I outlined in the book, find a community of men where you feel safe going deep and that the the group of men can hold each other and Ugly crying in front of each other. Because I think the biggest you know, when we talked earlier, what's one of the the big healing needs? And I think One of the biggest epidemics in our society, in in Western culture in the US, specifically, is isolation and loneliness for men in general. You know, certain general's reports just came out. We have epidemic of loneliness in our country. And what I find is We're this is really moving from disconnection, isolation, loneliness to deeper connection, intimacy, and love. And one of the first places we can start is by coming into community with other men and breaking down these ideas that we are the only ones Suffering or struggling with x and giving voice to the suffering that men are experiencing in silence. And so by just Coming into community and having the deeper types of conversations, either joining a men's group or there's a lot up here.

Sean Harvey [00:20:07]:

Philadelphia, a lot of guys I know, we go hiking on a regular basis, and it's just an opportunity to connect, to share. And then everything else kind of can start to come in when you just start to name what's been unspoken in your own life and hear from others who are doing the same and realizing that You have more in common with more men than maybe you've imagined.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:28]:

Yeah. That's what one of the reasons that we have the fathering together communities that we have is to bring men together to allow for them to be vulnerable, to allow for them to make community. But I will say that there are many other groups that are out there that you can join that will give you that small group mentality where you don't won't get that in a Dads With Daughters by Father and Together Facebook community that has a 130,000 members. Right? But For some people, you know, being in a large group is a step 2. So finding your tribe, finding that group, finding the people around you that you're Comfortable with that you are willing to go deeper with is important because I think I know even personally that many Of the things that we talk about, many of the people that we we surround ourselves with are very surface level. Even as you get into being a father, That tends to be the case. You talk about the positive things. It's that Facebook effect, and you don't always go Deep and really talk about the things that you're struggling with. But if you have even 1 person, 2 people that you can rely on, that you can go to and and check yourself. It's so important. And it is such a Release for yourself to have someone outside of your family that you can talk to and say, you know, I don't know if I'm doing this right or not Because we don't have to. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. As a father, as a man, you don't have to do this alone. You can surround yourself with other people. That'll help you.

Sean Harvey [00:22:07]:

I wanna add to what you just said though, when you said for you as the man to check. I think the other part of it is when you find that other men are checking in on you. You I find that that's one of the most powerful things when you realize someone else is looking out for you and someone else is checking in and you're on someone else's radar when It can be very easy to feel like you're all alone.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:28]:

Such a true thing. I have done that with with people around me, and it's not people that specifically that I've said, hey. I'm gonna check-in on you, but it's just calling out and saying, hey. What's going on? How are you doing? And Every time I do it, I mean, it seems like it's appreciated, and you never know where the conversation's gonna go. But But I think that it's, it's a powerful thing that and it's a gift that you really give to others when you get when you do ask that and you Give them the opportunity to unload a little bit in that way. Well, Sean, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for this, for what you're doing, for this Project that you're putting that you have started and this book that you've put out there. If people wanna find out more about you, about the book, Where's the best place for them to go?

Sean Harvey [00:23:16]:

I think the the easiest is go to my website, warrior compassion.com. If you wanna get the book, it's easy to find it on Amazon. So we're compassion, unleashing the healing power of men, and then you can you can find me through the website. You can you can get the book on Amazon, and everything that you'll need is there.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:33]:

Oh, Sean, thank you. Thank you for the work that you're doing, for engaging all of us men in these conversations, pushing us Out of our comfort zone a little bit here to think about things in different ways, to challenge us in many different ways, and I wish you all the best.

Sean Harvey [00:23:49]:

Alright. Thank you so much. It's great to be here.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:51]:

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child Comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information That will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step road maps, And more. You will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together ...org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:37]:

Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters And be the best dad that you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:49]:

We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents. Bring your AK because those kids are growing fast. The Time goes by just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters,

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

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In this episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast we welcome Jonathan Ramirez, a new father, project intern at Icstars in Chicago, and artist. We discussed Jonathan's journey of fatherhood, starting with the emotions and fears that come with being a new dad. Jonathan reflected on the overwhelming love he felt when he first learned he was going to be a father to a daughter. He also shared his concerns about raising his daughter in a world where women can be disrespected and undervalued. His fears included navigating the challenges his daughter might face due to gender bias and helping her through heartbreak.

The conversation shifted to Jonathan's vision of introducing his daughter to his culture, family, and values. He emphasized the importance of family and respect and shared his determination to instill these values in his daughter. He recounted his own childhood experiences and how his mother's reliance on family helped them through difficult times. Jonathan also acknowledged the value of respecting and empowering women and wants to teach his daughter that societal norms and gender biases do not define her worth.

Jonathan shared some of the unique experiences he had working at a restaurant. Jonathan mentioned how he initiated conversations with patrons who had children, seeking advice on fatherhood. He learned valuable insights, such as the importance of bouncing a crying baby, finding a babysitter, and the significance of balancing work and family life.

Jonathan also shared his challenges in balancing his roles as a new father, intern, and restaurant worker. He talked about the struggle of leaving the house to go to work and the strong desire to spend more time with his daughter. Despite the challenges, he developed a routine of bonding with his baby girl after returning home.

Jonathan opened up about his past and the anger he once harbored towards his own father. He reflected on his journey to forgiveness and acceptance, realizing that his father was just a human dealing with difficult circumstances. This personal growth has allowed him to become a more positive and loving father to his own daughter.

The conversation concluded with the challenging topic of how Jonathan plans to discuss his nine-year prison experience with his daughter in the future. He shared concerns about how to broach the subject and whether to reveal this part of his past.

This episode offers you a candid and heartfelt conversation about fatherhood, family, and the challenges and triumphs of raising a daughter in today's world. Jonathan's journey and personal growth provide valuable insights into the complexities and responsibilities of being a father.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:

Everyone, this is Chris. Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be Strong independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, you and I are on a journey together. We have this opportunity every week to be able to talk, to learn, to grow, And to help each other to be better fathers. And I love going on this journey with you because no matter if you have kids that are brand new Or if they're in their teenage years or if they're adults, you're always gonna be a father, and there's always gonna be something that you can learn. Always gonna be something that you can do to be able to stay engaged, stay present, and do all kinds of things to be able to stay in the lives of your kids, And that's what's the most important. I love bringing you different guests, different dads, different people that are walking different paths, But they have things that they can share with you to help you in this journey that you're on.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:12]:

This week, we've got another great guest with us. Jonathan Ramirez is with us, and Jonathan is a father to a brand new daughter that was born in August of this year. So Brand new dad. He's also a project intern at Icystars in Chicago. He's a freelance Photographer. He's done been doing that a little bit. He's done a lot of different things. We're gonna talk about some experience that he's had working at a restaurant and learning from other dads.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:42]:

So we're gonna have a great conversation today. Really looking forward to be able to have him here and to share his experience With you, Jonathan Singh. Thanks so much for joining us today.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:01:51]:

Thank you so much, Chris, for that introduction, and I'm honored to be here. I really, really am. I enjoy Podcast I've watched already. A couple when I heard about it, and I got some great advice through here. Thank you for having me.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:04]:

Now usually, when I have dads on, they're not always As young of fathers in regards to the fact of having their child just recently but one of the first questions that I love to ask to turn the clock back in time. Now you don't have to turn it back as far probably as some of the some of the dads that I talked to. But let's turn the clock back To that first moment that you found out that you're going to be a dad to a daughter, what was going through your head? Yeah.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:02:29]:

It's not that far ago. I think I felt the same way When I heard of the heartbeat, like, as soon as they told us the gender, my heart melted. And I was like, I'm stuck. It's over with. I already love Her mom so much, and I do everything, anything I can. I just know that same love was gonna be the same for my daughter. Like, it's gonna be a little mini hurt, And I'm like, I I'm not gonna have time for myself anymore because I I run around now like crazy for Savannah, and now I'm gonna be doing it for Bella Rose for sure.

Christopher Lewis [00:03:01]:

Now I guess for you so far, as you think about being a father to a daughter, There, I talked to a lot of dads and a lot of dads say that there's some fear that goes along not only with being a new parent, but being a father to a daughter as well. What's your biggest fear In raising a daughter.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:03:16]:

That's a good question. I've been thinking about that every single day since. There's several fears. Number 1, I've seen so many people just Disrespect women just because they're women. No. Like, just the fact that they're a woman, they all they'll tuck over them or they'll belittle, and In the conversation, I see Savannah when I see my daughter, to be honest. And she is someone that's been spoken over over and over and over. And and her voice Might be small, but she has a lot of value in what she does say because she's incredibly intelligent.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:03:49]:

She's in College right now, I have to be a psychiatrist, but I see how she's been treated. I've seen how she's been treated by her teachers, her professors, just because she's a female. I've seen how she's been treated by her exes and my own sister as well growing up with her. She's only, like, 2 years younger than me. I mean, I've seen how tough It is for women and the differences for men. And my fear is I don't know how I would explain how to teach her that, how to teach her that, look, What how they see you, how they treat you is not because of the view. It's a social norm that's evolved over time, and I wanna be able to Show her how to overcome that. But not being a female myself, I don't know exactly how she would do that.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:04:33]:

Like, mine would be theory, not Experience. So I guess that is one of my fears. Another fear is just her coming to me and telling me how heartbroken she is for the 1st time. And I know she's It's only 2 months, but, yeah, I think about it. It's like, man, am I gonna have to go and, like, like, go talk to someone's parents and be like, hey. You check your kid or Something I don't know how far I'm gonna go. I'm gonna be the crazy dad. You know? So I just don't wanna see her with her tears looking at me, looking for A solution, and I don't have one. And I'm afraid that I that when she comes to me for that help, that I'm clueless. I don't wanna be the clueless father. I wanna be like, okay. Let's Let's figure this out together, you know, and let's go find you whatever you need. I think those are probably the fears that I've actually been thinking about. I'm sure there's probably others that I haven't thought about because I'm, you know, a new dad. But for now, these are the things that flag my mind, I guess, every now and then when I think of the future.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:33]:

One of the things that I would love for you to talk about too is you have a child now, and every person as they enter into fatherhood have To define for yourself what it means to be a father, but then also what it means to be a part of A family, a culture, and being able to inculcate that into your own children and Allow for your children to be able to understand what it means to be a part of the larger family Whether your larger culture. For you, how do you hope to introduce your daughter as she grows older to Your culture, your family, and be able to instill the values that are important to you.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:06:20]:

So that is one of the main things that I, hold very highly is family, is respect, And, also, I think I was just going to be involved like I usually am because our family is pretty big. And so there's certain parts of our family that have disappeared and fallen off. That's because they just don't feel like they wanna come out to the parties or Not just parties, but get togethers, celebrations, and what have you when the whole family gets together. I did that growing up. Every single Christmas, we went on as as a whole family, like cousins, aunts, uncles. And not only that, When my mom was going through hard times and we couldn't find the rent or we got kicked out of the house or she couldn't get to work because she just got in a car accident. I got in, like, 7 car accidents. Sorry if you're listening to this.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:07:12]:

But the thing that instilled in us was she was always able to rely on that family. She was always able to call her sister, my aunt or her brother, my uncle, and I seen it with my own eyes how powerful that was. When we didn't have the rent to afford an apartment, I mean, we went to my aunt's house and lived there for a couple months. And that growing up was huge to me. Like, man, this is the power of community. This is the power of family. And I hope I'm not Able to not pay the rent and having to show her that way. But I do wish to show her that family is important by being involved In families that and maybe even helping other family members.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:07:55]:

Maybe that's the way I can show her. I'm glad you said that because now I have that solution in my head for whenever that does come about. But, another thing is the respect. That is something that a lot of people don't I feel. I don't know. I don't wanna generalize, but I feel like respect has not been a priority A lot of people in recent times around me, around people I talk to. And and that's I wish I could teach her that, but not in a way that I was taught. I guess I would have to ask other fathers because I I don't have the answer how I would do it because I haven't done that experience yet. But the experience that I had, I did not feel like that was the right way to learn respect. And

Christopher Lewis [00:08:36]:

Do you have any ideas? I know you said you wanna talk to other dads, But you said that there are things that you do not want to pass on. What are some of those things that you don't want to pass on that are, or you're trying to break the cycle In a way

Jonathan Ramirez [00:08:49]:

I'm gonna give you a little bit of backstory before I answer that question. My mom's a single mom, and I was 4 years old. My brother was 3 years old, And my sister's 1 year old, and my mom is a single mom. And she had to work 2 jobs to afford everything. That was the position I was in when My mom needed help at home. And who is she gonna ask? She's gonna ask her oldest son, and that's me. So I was the one who had to get my brothers and sisters up or sometimes they have to get me up. But most of the time, I was cooking for them, and I was always rushing because my mom was always rushing me, and that's something that stuck with me.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:09:25]:

I feel like I gained a lot of good things out of that through those experiences. Like, I love being on time. I do not like being late, and it bugs me to the core. I mean, like, team management. I call it team management, but, really, it was just me telling my brothers, god. Let's go. We're going. We're late for school. You know, I'm only a year older than them, And I'm yelling at her, get ready. What are you guys doing? You're gonna get me in trouble with moms. And it has affected me because, like, Savannah is the total opposite. She It's late everywhere she goes, and it bugs me and bugs me to a point where it's not a good thing. It's like, come on, babe. I swear we said we're gonna be there 5 minutes go, and I do not wish to pass that along to my daughter. I don't want that that stress to consume her because she feels that she needs to be on. Savannah is so carefree, and I envy her for that.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:10:17]:

And I hope our daughter can find a in between, like being on time and respectful, but not stressing overly too much like I do. And the only way I can see that actually Me not actually passing the answer is working on myself. I'm a role model, and I don't wanna be the role model that says and not does.

Christopher Lewis [00:10:37]:

Appreciate you sharing that. And it's definitely you know, each father, each person that has a child brings their own History, their own baggage, the things that they have to work through, and it's not always easy. And Some people have more than others that you have to be able to work on internally. You have to work with other people on. And as you think about that for yourself, it sounds like you do have some that you're working on and that you're going to continue working on to make sure that That you break that cycle, and and that's a good thing. So I just commend you for doing the work. It's not gonna be easy, But it is a day by day thing that you'll have to work on as you are trying to be that best dad that you wanna be.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:11:23]:

Thank you so much.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:24]:

Now I know that You are doing a lot of different things. You are, you know, you're an intern at IC Stars. You are I mentioned you're a photographer, but you also worked a restaurant, I mean, you're you got a lot of plates in the air. You're a dad. You're supporting your your significant other. So talk to me about balance, and how do you balance all of that And still be able to stay engaged with your young daughter.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:11:48]:

Actually, I have put up the photography hat because I actually do paint and sips. I have my own business, and I am currently trying to only do libraries For free. I wanna turn into a not for profit because libraries were my own my escape as a childhood, and I wanna give back to them. And the way I balance it is so I still work at the restaurant. I work every weekend. So I gotta break down my schedule to Monday through Friday From 8 to 8, I'm a IC stars intern, and I get there an hour early and sometimes more Because I take the bus at 5:30 in the morning. And when I get home, I don't get home till around 9, 9:30 at night. And that's the time as soon as I walk in, I say hi to Savannah, give her a hug, and I let her know that I miss her.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:12:42]:

Throughout the day, I text her that I love her, and we keep Keep each other updated, but the first thing that I do right after is I hold my baby. And I spend time, 30 minutes to an hour depending on how long I get stuck staring at her because I just love staring at her. I mean, I could get lost just messing with her, just looking at her and Playing with her little hand. She's so tiny, but I know I still have work to do. So I make sure I spend that time So she can see my face. I don't want her, 4 months down the road, be like, who's this guy? I haven't I haven't met this guy yet. So I make sure she sees me every night. I got really great advice I'm a doula.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:13:19]:

And then she said, when you get home, create that routine with your daughter. And I took that to heart, and I have been trying my very best Every single night I get home to hold my baby right after I give my hug and my kiss to Savannah. Then Saturday, I work a double At Cooper's Hawk, almost every Saturday, and I don't start till 10:30 to 11. So the mornings is my time to be with the baby, and that's when I get to give Savannah a break from Constantly feeding and waking up to put down the baby, that's my time to shine. I I wake up really early every day anyways. So I'll get up early around 5, 6, 7, depending on how I feel. Because Saturday is like the day or depending on if the baby wakes up. But if the baby wakes up that morning, I make sure I'm the one who holds her. I get the baby bottle and I feed her. I let Savannah sleep in basically because she is a notorious person, she before the baby, she would sleep until, like, 3 in the afternoon, and now she can't do it. And I feel so bad. But on those Saturdays, She gets to sleep in, then I go to work. And then when I come back, I do the same thing. I hold my baby right after being with Savannah for a bit. And those Saturday mornings, I also make breakfast because I know Savannah deserves, you know, that treat. Not a treat, but Savannah deserves Me being more involved, and she's doing something incredible for me, and by holding down the house and the things that I can't take care of myself for now. And then Sundays, I try to only take 1 shift at the restaurant, and I try to move it either afternoon or night depending on what we have planned. Like this Sunday, we have a double date with another couple that we had met, and that's another great advice I got from the restaurant.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:15:01]:

They're like, hey. Remember, you guys are a couple that you need to go on dates and stuff. So since the baby's so young, we met a couple that has also a very young baby. I think their baby is only 7 weeks older than ours. And so we're we're gonna have like a play date for the babies, which they're not really gonna play, but it's more like for us to get together and enjoy some time Together as a group. And and my business, I don't try to over schedule myself because I do have a lot of things on my plate. So for the pan sips, I try to do 1 every 2 to 3 months so I don't overwhelm myself. It's not about the money. Yeah. The money's great, But I need to think about my family. I just I wanna be able to be there and not just support. I wanna actually be there.

Christopher Lewis [00:15:45]:

So you've been mentioning the restaurant, and I know that that's one of the things that you do as you mentioned, and It takes up quite a bit of time, but as you've been working there, you and I were talking about that you've been doing some kind of really kind of unique things as your A significant other was pregnant. And before your child was born, you started talking to people and asking people questions, And you learned some things, and you mentioned a couple other things. But talk to me about some of the biggest things and the biggest takeaways that you took From those conversations that you had in the restaurant with those patrons.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:16:23]:

Of course. I mean, there, they throw baby showers, And, I'm a banquet server at times, so I've gotten to to see people excited, waiting for their baby, but I've also seen I love patrons with kids already. And so I serve about, I wanna say, 15 tables a night. And out of those 15, maybe 13 of them have kids. And every single table that I see with kids, I do ask them, like, hey. I'm about to be a father. And they're like, oh, congratulations. I'm like, man, is there any advice that you can give me as a new parent? And a lot of it was the same, was, yeah, you gotta look tough for yourself.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:17:03]:

You have to make sure that When the baby's crying, you don't squeeze the stomach, you pat her on the back. Like, I got these, like, very specific things that I think they were dealing with and that they were struggling with That they told me about the one that really got to me and that really works for me, actually, like, I've been doing it is, Look. When you try to figure out what the baby is crying for and you change her diaper and you've burped her and you've fed her and everything's done and she's Still crying? Just bounce. That's all they want. They want you to hold her and bounce, and I do. I I get up and I I just, like, kinda Bend my knees a little bit and bounce a little bit, and she just loves it. And I'm like, oh my gosh. I will that guy I thought that that advice at the moment was just, Oh, this guy's a whack job.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:17:49]:

But no. I mean, that guy's a genius. I mean, it worked wonders for me. And, I mean, one of the craziest things I heard Was, like, find a find a babysitter or something. Grease as much milk as you can, and that was crazy at the time. But now that I'm in the moment, I see why. I understand why we need to freeze the milk because She don't have to keep getting up. I could help her out now.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:18:15]:

I was like, oh, don't worry, babe. I could feed her. You know, I can't magically produce milk. So now that she froze some, I can actually help her. I can actually be there for her, and I think those are the main things that I really, really utilized. And and I'm still asking. I I tell everybody, hey. I'm a new dad. You know, like, I try to get new advice every day I go.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:35]:

I love that you did that because that's not something that everybody would think about doing, but it's a great concept and it's definitely Allows you to build a community around you that you can turn to, and and that's important. Now we've we've talked about that so many times on the show, The importance of having a community of dads around you that you can turn to. Whether they're they're close friends, whether they're just people that you know that you could turn to, Whether it's family members, whatever it is, it's important to have that for yourself because it it does make sure to give you things that you can then turn to. And when you're struggling because there's debt I there's always gonna be a point in time when you will struggle as a dad, as a new father, as a father, as you're going through the different stages in your child's Life, there will be times that you will struggle, and it will get better, then it might get worse. And, you know, there's this kind of roller coaster that you end up being on with your child, And you just have to know that that's coming, but having people around you is definitely going to be something that is going to help you along the way. As a new dad right now, What would you say has been the hardest part for you in making this transition into being a new father?

Jonathan Ramirez [00:19:45]:

Hardest thing is leaving the house. I wanna be there. I wanna see her for steps. I Wanna see everything. I mean, I'm waiting for that moment where she laughs. Like, for the first time, I haven't heard her laugh. I've seen her smile. I don't know if it's For gas, it's because she's seeing me, and it's just that's the hardest part.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:20:01]:

When I'm at work, I know that I'm doing it for her. Now I know that I'm working. I'm doing this for my daughter. I wanna be there. I wanna be able to hold in my arms. I wanna be able to take it to work with me. And I do with pictures. Both my screensavers have my daughter.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:20:16]:

So every time I pick up my phone and, you know, as a human species now, we pick up our phones very much. Check my laptop. My work laptop has a picture of my daughter, so it makes me miss her more, actually. But, also, it keeps her in my forefront of my mind. And I think that is especially the most hard I could do the late nights. I could do the 4 hours of sleep, because I do it for work. So I could definitely do 2 hours of sleep If it was for my daughter, I know it'd be tough, but the toughest part is actually walking away, is not being there. Because I think that was The number 1 thing that I told myself since I was a kid, that I wasn't gonna be like my father.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:20:53]:

My father disappeared at 4, and, I mean, That was the 1 person that's supposed to love and care for you, to walk away and not be there. That was very detrimental to me growing up. It stuck with me. And I know that I'm not leaving for selfish reasons, and I know I'm leaving to better her life. But the fact that I'm leaving, it hurts me every time. I want her to see me there. I want her when she looks up crying, she sees her dad. Like, man, this is the guy that's gonna support me.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:21:20]:

He's always there. He's standing by my side. And I got plenty of time. I know I'm thinking of the words, but that's how I feel inside. You know, I'm not I don't think that constantly, but it's the feeling is that I gotta walk away, and I hate it.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:33]:

I wanna unpack that a little bit because you just made a a statement that I think Not just you have dealt with, but there's other fathers that are fathering in a way to forget some of the wrongs of their past And some of the things that their own father may have based on them in some way, but that the baggage, Again, like I mentioned earlier, that they carry. Now that you are a new father, have you been able to reconcile any of that baggage with your own father? And if not, is that something that you hope to do in the future?

Jonathan Ramirez [00:22:09]:

There is a moment in my life that I I didn't make very great decisions, And that was because I was very angry person growing up. So I was, sexually molested when I was 15, and that's another fear. And I didn't mention it earlier because that's just It's, something that I think every father fears maybe because if it can happen to me as a man and it's already happening so much to women, That scares me so much. And that right there caused me to hate my father so much because he wasn't there to explain to me what happened. He wasn't there to show me how to avoid those type of situations, and I blamed him. And I I was so angry. And then I started to blame god. And, like, why'd you give me to this person that that doesn't care about me and then allow this to happen? And I've done a lot of things that out of anger that I wasn't proud of.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:22:59]:

But during after one of these Major I I don't wanna call it a mistake because it was a decision that I made that I had to deal with with major consequences, which was 9 years of prison. And within those 9 years of prison, Within the 5th year, I heard this video, and it said that anger is like poison. You're drinking the poison, though. You're not poisoning the other person. You wish the other person to to die from this poison, but you're drinking it yourself and only killing yourself. So when that has said that I was in a mental state already where I was kinda locked up. I was moved removed away from, like, emotional stress, And I was able to unpack that in my head, and that led me to the realization that, look, my father is just a human being. There is nothing this man Could have done differently to change the circumstances around me.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:23:52]:

He could, yeah, he could have told me things. He could have taught me a bunch of things, But it doesn't change the circumstances that I would have been in. It wouldn't change the environment I would have been in. I'd have still made my own decisions. And he's just a man. He couldn't predict that. And so I reconciled with him as soon as I got out to the So the dislike of many of my family members because they haven't you know, I haven't dealt with that themselves. But I'm like, look, I don't I'm tired of hating.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:24:19]:

I'm tired of Blaming others, what I gotta do is for myself and my family. And when I found out that I was gonna have this daughter, I was so, like, jubilant, happy, ecstatic because now I could do all the things that I thought a father should be. And hopefully, it's enough, you know, because I can't change those things that are uncontrollable. Those things are gonna happen or not. And I just hope that she knows that I'm supportive of her no matter what happens in her, and I'm there by her side always.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:48]:

Really appreciate you sharing that. It's, definitely It moves you from pain to that acceptance and understanding that I mean, being able to reconcile, I'm sure, lifted a burden Or hopefully both of you to be able to move forward and be able to, as I said earlier, to be a better dad because You've been able to do that. Now you talked about the fact that you had 9 years in prison, and at some point in time, that's gonna come up. It's gonna come up. You're gonna talk about it. You're going to bring it up and have to have those conversations with your own daughter about the mistakes that you made in life That led you there. Have you thought about that and how you think that you're going to be able to have those type of conversations?

Jonathan Ramirez [00:25:33]:

Yes. I have thought of that. And Savannah and I have spoken about these things, and it's just I haven't came up with an answer. I told Savannah, look. Let's just keep it from her. I don't want her to know. And when she finds out, we'll we'll get to it then. But I know that's not a good, route to take because then it's gonna be like, hey. Why are you hiding this for me? But I don't know how to explain to her. I just feel like I don't wanna make it a normal thing either. And I don't want her They run and tell their friends, oh, yeah. My dad's in prison and this, and like, I don't want her spreading that. And like my dad's cool kind of way, because it isn't. I don't have the answer of how I would do it, but I definitely have thought of just letting her know when she's like 14 And like on a birthday and be like, hey. I wanna tell you a few things that I think you're old enough to hear now, or like go with the moment. If I feel like the moment's right, then we're bonding to use that moment.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:26:25]:

Like, I wish I would have the right answer to them, and that's another phase. Like, is she gonna reject me? She'd be like, what? Because my nephew he thought I was in police academy when he was visiting me in prison. My nephew was born the same year I was In prison. So he's only met me in prison for the 1st 9 years of his life. And this whole that whole time, he thought I was in a police academy. And I believe it was when he was 7, my brother's like, hey, I think it's about time. We start telling Brian because he's starting to ask questions. And, like, he started noticing, hey.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:27:04]:

Why do we have to do this when we Go visit uncle Jonathan. We gotta go through checks and stuff. And it was a hard conversation because he was in the visiting room, and I'm like, hey. Yeah. I used to be a bad guy. Because that's what you call them, cops and robbers. And like, oh, you can catch the bad guys. And I'm like, you know what? No. I didn't catch the bad guys. They caught me. I was a bad guy. And it's because I made a lot of wrong decisions out of anger. Like, anger is the number one thing that I I keep playing back to that I have been really working on myself with, and I've gone a long way, but I know I still have a lot more to go. And hopefully, that conversation goes like it went with my nephew because he is so lovable. He told me, don't worry, uncle. When I become a cop, I won't arrest you. I was like, oh Oh my god. That kid is the bomb. But I mean, like, he loves me so much and he his did not change at all. He loves me. He misses me. Every time he sees me, he gives me a big old hug, and and I just hope my daughter is the same. She's standing and or she doesn't come up with her own narrative on how things went down, and I would be able to explain that to her in a conversation or something.

Christopher Lewis [00:28:17]:

Be points in time Where have those moments, those moments that you have connection, those moments where there are Concerns or things that have happened in your daughter's life that you may be able to relate back to your own experience and be able to say, this is what happened to me. And you don't wanna go down that road and have those type of conversations about what you learned along the way. And maybe it's through stories, And maybe there's some ways to be able to build some stories together and teach her through story As she's getting older and share some of those stories with her in a a trickle down approach, you never know. I can't say that I had that same but you definitely are right. I think if she finds out on her own, there may be more feelings of betrayal In the sense of not knowing you the way she thought she did. So I think you've got that right in that concern that you've Got in your own mind. And it's not an easy thing to do, an easy thing to talk about, but maybe there are other dads out there that you can connect with that have had the same can talk about how they did it for themselves, and that may be something too down the road that you might be able to learn from other dads in that regard. But I do appreciate you sharing that.

Christopher Lewis [00:29:34]:

We always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood five, where we ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Jonathan Ramirez [00:29:42]:

I'm ready.

Christopher Lewis [00:29:42]:

One word. What is fatherhood?

Jonathan Ramirez [00:29:44]:

Leadership.

Christopher Lewis

When is the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father To your daughter.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:29:51]:

Well, it might sound silly, but when I first burp there, I'm like, man, I did it. I mean, like, I was so nervous about holding her patting her back. Am I doing it too much? Or am I hurting her? And she let out this big old belch. I'm like, yes. I did it.

Christopher Lewis [00:30:07]:

Think down the road, maybe 7, 10 years down the road. Was to talk to your daughter then, How would you want her to describe you as a dad?

Jonathan Ramirez [00:30:15]:

Supportive, loving, kind, and always there for her.

Christopher Lewis [00:30:19]:

Fears you to be a better dad.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:30:21]:

Just my sense of family, my own sense of family. Like, I want our family. I see so many fathers that fall short, not because They're not doing the right things, basically, but because of that cycle. And I don't wanna carry that baggage. That's what it is. This baggage. We all have baggage, and I've seen time and time again how How fathers bring that into the mix, and that inspires me because I wanna start the new cycle. I wanna start a new cycle that shows that, look, We can do it.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:30:47]:

We can do this. We don't have to repeat the same mistakes our fathers made. I think that inspires me a lot that there's some just fathers out there that are doing fantastic things. Seeing them like you right now, this is inspiring. I mean, like, you are an inspiration because you're helping fathers and you're getting that information out. I would have never known this existed if it wasn't for me talking about my daughter with Brian. And Brian, as a father to daughters, like, hey, Check this out. You know, it's Chris.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:31:17]:

He's doing great things. That's inspiring, seeing fathers getting together and just my own personal sense of family. Like, I really love that. That makes me feel so good that there's people out there pushing this issue forward, and it's really awesome.

Christopher Lewis [00:31:31]:

You've given a lot of piece of advice today, things that you've learned along the way so far as a new dad, but also things that you've learned from other fathers. As we leave today, what's 1 piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Jonathan Ramirez [00:31:42]:

There's no way that you're a bad father. There's no way you're a bad father unless that's what you're going for. That is my advice. I know that sounds weird, but I thought before I had my baby that I I was gonna be a bad father because I'm a felon. I don't have a great career. I'm poor bro. I'm gonna be the worst father ever. Like, how can I be a great dad? But you're not A bad father for those things.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:32:08]:

You actually are a good father for worrying about those things, because you're actively thinking about your kids And their welfare and their well-being. And that alone makes you a good father because there's so many fathers out there that don't even care. They don't care. They don't wanna think about Their kids is they rather think about themselves. And I feel like if you're thinking that, oh, I'm gonna be a bad dad, You're on the right path. You're on the right path. If you think that you're gonna be a bad father and you're worried about that, you're on the right path. Stop thinking that though because you're a great dad, and that's the number one advice I can give somebody.

Christopher Lewis [00:32:45]:

Oh, Jonathan, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your Story for sharing your baggage that you are carrying into fatherhood and that you're working through in your own way, and I truly wish you all the best.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:32:58]:

Thank you so much, Chris, and thank you for having me out here. This is awesome. I appreciate it.

Christopher Lewis [00:33:04]:

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to Check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information That will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step road maps, And more. You will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together ...org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today.

Christopher Lewis [00:33:50]:

Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters And be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy in presents and bring your a k because As those kids are growing fast, the time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, Carpenters and musclemen get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

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In this episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast we welcome Paul Glezer to the show. The episode focuses on Paul's journey as a father, raising his daughter, and navigating the challenges and joys of fatherhood.

Paul Glezer shared his unique journey into fatherhood. He described the moment he found out he was going to be a father and how it made him feel a mix of joy and an out-of-body experience due to the simultaneous passing of one of his musical heroes. Paul also shared his initial reaction to finding out he was going to have a daughter and the overwhelming happiness he felt, envisioning her as "daddy's little girl" and "daddy's little princess."

The conversation delved into some common fears of raising daughters. Paul mentioned the fear of not knowing what it's like to be a little girl and dealing with the challenges unique to daughters. He reflected on his experiences of navigating the complexities of fatherhood and appreciated the early development of his daughter's strong personality and ability to engage in conversations and tackle life's questions.

As his daughter has grown, Paul shared that they bonded over physical activities. He talks about their shared love for gymnastics and how they trained together using gymnastics rings. He highlights the satisfaction of being able to share those moments and connect on a physical level.

The discussion also touched on the peaks and valleys of fatherhood and the challenges Paul faced when his daughter's security and self-esteem were threatened. He emphasizes the importance of guiding and building resilience in children, even when it's emotionally challenging.

Regarding the balance between personal and family life, Paul stresses the importance of filling one's own cup and setting personal goals for self-care. By ensuring that they take care of themselves, fathers can be more present for their children and partners.

The conversation also explores the "Girl Dad" hashtag and the special bond between fathers and daughters. Paul believes in a unique connection between fathers and daughters, whether it's a perceived phenomenon or reality. He expresses his love and pride in being a girl dad.

The episode concludes with a discussion about Paul's initiative, The Art of Healthy Parents and Your Hero Life. He explains how the group focuses on providing advice and support to fathers to help them maintain their physical and mental health, enabling them to be more present for their families.

Paul offered advice for dads who are hesitant to change their health and lifestyle habits, emphasizing the importance of starting with easy wins. He encourages them to take small steps and build on their progress over time.

The Art of Healthy Dads serves as a valuable resource for fathers looking to improve themselves and their relationships with their families.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:

Hey, everyone. This is Chris, and welcome to Dads with Daughters, where we bring you guests to help you be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong independent women. I'm excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, we have an opportunity to be able to connect, to be able to talk, and And be able to walk on this path that we're on together. I've told you in the past, I've got 2 daughters myself. I know you've got daughters if you're here, and Every dad's journey is just a little bit different, and it's important. It's important to be able to connect. It's important to be able to hear these differences and be able to hear the way in which Different dads are fathering because there's no one right way to father.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:57]:

There's no one right manual for how to be a father, But we can learn from every dad around us, and it may not be easy to go next door and talk to that dad next door And be able to admit when things are aren't going the best, but sometimes you can listen and you can take in some different Thoughts, some different perspectives, and build a toolbox for yourself. And that still doesn't mean that you have to do it alone. It just means that you have an opportunity to be able to learn, to grow, and to be able to help yourself to be able to be that dad that you wanna be. That's what this show is all about. Every week, I love being able to sit down with different people, different dads, different experts that are bringing different types of experiences to the forefront that will help you to be able to be a better father.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:52]:

We've got another great dad with us today. Paulie Glieser is with us today, and Paulie is a

Christopher Lewis [00:01:58]:

father of 2. We're gonna be talking about his journey as a father himself. He lives in Melbourne, Australia, and we are I'm really excited to be able to learn from him and his experiences and to welcome him to the show. Paulie, thanks so much for being here today.

Paul Glezer [00:02:12]:

Thank you so much for having me on the show, Chris. It's an absolute pleasure to be here, and, thanks Making the time in the evening over in Michigan.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:20]:

Well, I appreciate you giving me some time in the morning where you are that we we found that there's about a 14 hour difference Between where I am and where you are, but I love being able to have dads from all over the world to talk with them Because every dad's journey is a little bit different, and I love starting these conversations with a opportunity to To go back in time, to turn the clock back, we'll say. And I'd like to turn the clock back all the way back To that first moment that you found out that you were going to be a father to a daughter, what was going through your head?

Paul Glezer [00:02:53]:

Well, firstly, before we delve in, I just wanna Congratulate you and your community on what an incredible document you're preserving for fathers, specifically of of Girls out there and daughters because it's a really special connection between fathers and daughters to be able to grow, develop, and To have, you know, these stories to be able to reference is is really special, so thank you for your contribution. So The moment I found out I was a father was a different time to when I found out I was a a father of a daughter. The moment I found out my wife was pregnant with our child. It was the same day I found out one of my musical heroes passed away. It was a very Weird time that, like, to have that amazing experience of getting that information, I was just overwhelmed with joy. If you were to isolate that and then, there was this kind of, I suppose, out of body experience between this birth and death realm that was going on in my, inner world as well. But then fast forward to the birth of our child Finding out I always said during the gestation period and the the pregnancy, I didn't have a great preference over whether it was a a boy or a girl, Son or daughter. And when we found out that our child was a daughter, we didn't find out previous to the birth.

Paul Glezer [00:04:16]:

I was just, I don't know. Something within me just was like, I'm so happy. This is a girl. She's gonna be daddy's little girl, daddy's little princess, and I was just overcome with Emotion, overcome, cried for days.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:29]:

I've talked to a lot of different dads, and dads tell me that not only is there fear in Becoming a father just in general, but there a lot of times for dads with daughters, they say that there's a fear of raising daughters in some ways. What What would you say has been your biggest fear in raising a daughter?

Paul Glezer [00:04:47]:

Firstly, I would say my biggest fear of raising children in general has been I've never done this before. And you can't read any manual that is gonna give you a blueprint because you are A complete unique individual, and the fruits of your loin are completely unique individual. So that was, like, completely disarming but liberating In the same way, because I knew that anything I did was gonna be right and wrong depending on how we kind of danced through the sea of life together. And then there was the added complexity of me. I've never been a little girl before, so I don't know what it's like to of the challenges associated with being a little girl, and it's just amazing. You know? I I say at the beginning of her childhood, I always So fatherhood at the beginning is it's there's no doubt. It's it's not easy, but it's simple. You keep your child alive.

Paul Glezer [00:05:39]:

You sleep when they sleep. You change their nappies. And then once they start to develop these little personalities, all of a sudden, they're Challenging you there, having these opinions on life, and I've got a feeling my daughter had opinions earlier than Some. And it was great to be able to have these conversations with her and to tackle life's bigger questions at an early age.

Christopher Lewis [00:06:03]:

Now your daughter is 5, and during those years, as you said, your child starts to have their own personality. You start to identify things that make them tick, make them excited, make them happy, make, you know, the things that they enjoy doing. And those may or may not be similar to things that you enjoy doing as well. What would you say is the What are the favorite things that you and your daughter like to share together?

Paul Glezer [00:06:30]:

I'm a very physical person. I enjoy using my body a lot. And From the moment my daughter was born, she was just glued together really cohesively. She walked early. She ran early. She did sports early. She did everything where she could express herself physically in quite a cohesive manner, and she took that and she ran with it. Pardon the pun.

Paul Glezer [00:06:52]:

We were able to share That experience of expressing ourselves physically together. I get my gymnastics rings up in the back of our house, And we experience learning different training technique as a father and daughter. We'd experience different gymnastics moves together. Growing up, 80, My daughter was probably more kind of gravitating towards mom for a period of time. I want mom to put me to bed, I feel like I I was sitting on the bench for a little while and just enjoying the supportive role that I had. And this is not a woe is me story. It's just The reality of the way it is and ebbs and flows. And and of late, she's given me the ring in, and she's daddy's little girl of late.

Paul Glezer [00:07:34]:

And I'm, like, Rolling up my sleeves, and I'm like, okay. This is daddy's time to shine. I want daddy to put me in a bed. And this is gonna come in various different, peaks and troughs and, stages in in life. But right now, I gotta tell you, the connection that I am having with my daughter, Being able to share the small things in life with her has been truly remarkable and also very validating for me because my daughter looks at me and She says, daddy, what do you think? I'm like, yeah. This is nice.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:04]:

Onto it now because as they get into their teenage years, it might change. You never know.

Paul Glezer [00:08:08]:

I'm sure.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:09]:

So as your daughter has has gotten older, as you have already said, there's been peaks and valleys. There's been ups and downs. There's There's different phases, different stages, and with those comes some challenges along the way as well. It's not always going to be easy To be a parent, as we all know, what would you say has been the hardest part for you in being a father to a daughter?

Paul Glezer [00:08:33]:

I'll use my, I suppose, my most Recent experiences as guidance. Having any kind of difficulty where my daughter's security as an individual is threatened, and that can be through having being left out of a playing circle between 3 kids for a day. That just goes so deep to my heart, and it Breaks me into a 1000000 different pieces because I'm sitting there thinking, I know what it's like to have experienced something like that in my childhood, feeling unvalidated, Feeling threatened, feeling like you're less than in a social environment. And for your daughter to experience something like that At such a young age, which I'm sure every son and daughter will experience in their life, as the father of a daughter in that protective mechanism that is inbuilt in us, I feel, becomes really, really upgraded and becomes, like, super intent. And then my rational mind comes into play and says, well, this is an exercise of resilience. How is she gonna be able to tackle this? How is she gonna be able to endeavor to be able and our role as parents or my role, I saw as a dad is to be able to guide her, give her examples of how this has affected me in my life in the past, And see how she takes it and runs with it. And it's been incredible to just see how this tiny little baby 5 years ago has developed this, Not just this ability to be able to think independently for yourself, but to be able to look at unique situations And then riff on them and grow before my very eyes. It's remarkable.

Christopher Lewis [00:10:08]:

I know that you're a busy guy. You know, you are an entrepreneur. Where you are doing a lot of different things and balancing those things, balancing the different hats that you wear As a father, as a husband, all the other hats that you also put on, talk to me about how you balance all of that So that you are present and that you are engaged and able to be there for your daughter.

Paul Glezer [00:10:33]:

So the one thing I've learned, and I've learned this The difficult way, the uncomfortable way at the beginning of parenthood is I need to be able to fill my own cup up, whatever that looks like, In order to be available for my children, for my partner, for my friends, I need to be able to feel full myself. And feeling full Criteria wise, now can be very different to what it felt like when I was 20 years old. But being conscious of what that looks like, Setting those goals, filling my own cup up, and then knowing that when I'm, coming home from a day at work and I'm with my children and my daughter, I can and this doesn't always happen 100% of the time, but I can put my phone down. I can leave it and just be completely and actually present with my daughter. And I've and I've realized that taking your children on big holidays does not excuse not being present For the small transient moments in their life, I actually feel like those 5 minute bursts of transient Connection consistently put together far more powerful experience for your children than going, I don't know, taking your your children to club med or whatever it might k.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:48]:

So true. So true. And those little moments add up to big moments, and they and kids reflect back on them. And what I've come to find is you can't get those moments back. And if you are completely checked out, If you're on your phone, if you're not there, if especially when your kids want you to be there, then As they get older and they don't want you to be there, they remember you not being there too. And it's So important to be able to, especially as your kids are young, to invest the time in to build that solid relationship So that as they get older, they know that you're there, that you can always that they can come to you. And as they Stretch their wings and look for more autonomy that they still will come back, and they still want you around Even though they want that autonomy at the same time.

Paul Glezer [00:12:49]:

I couldn't agree more. Well said. And to me, the the word that comes up when you are discussing something like that is trust. Them trusting you to be attentive, present, and available for them in these times in their life. They may not look or appear to be the most Vulnerable times in a a kid's life that it's like every time you are attentive, it's like a a dollar in the bank, that trust, mechanism that you can flex, that muscle that you can flex between yourself and your daughter. And I think that has a compound interest that you said can probably That probably rates its benefits later on in life as well.

Christopher Lewis [00:13:28]:

Appreciate you sharing that. Now I've been talking to a lot of dads recently about a hashtag that keeps coming back up. It's been around for many years, and you may see it in your neck of the woods. You may not. But the hashtag girl dad has been around for Quite a few years now. As you hear that, and it may mean something to you, and it may not mean something. But what does that mean to you? What does being a girl dad mean to you?

Paul Glezer [00:13:51]:

The hashtag Girl tag to me really just it it's hard to explain in words, but to me, there appears to be a very unique and special bond Between a father and his daughter. And, you know, you've got 2 daughters. And I have a daughter and a son, and they're both incredibly special to me. But I can my relationships with both of them are unique, and I definitely see the connection between my daughter and myself. There's something inherent between what a daughter kind of experiences with her father. Whether I perceive it in my own mind Or it's reality. I'm not sure that yeah. I can definitely say that special bond between a daughter and dad.

Christopher Lewis [00:14:35]:

Well, I appreciate that. Now I mentioned at the beginning that you have been doing some of your own work with other men, with other dads, and you have a group Called the art of healthy dads, and you're working as you said to me prior to us starting to talk, You've been working in kind of physical and mental health spaces and and trying to help dads in other ways. I guess, Talk to me a little bit about this this group that you've started, the Art of Healthy Dads. You know, why did you decide that this was something that you really wanted to to start For yourself, for others, especially as an offshoot to because I know that you also were the founder and owner of Hero Life as well. So talk to me about why you started this group and why was it important for you to start this group?

Paul Glezer [00:15:26]:

So I I mentioned that when I first Became a father. Well, first, let me rewind a little bit more. A lot of my friends became fathers before I did, and I saw A certain consistency in health decline amongst my friends who became parents, both physically and to a certain extent mentally and emotionally. It was a it's a lot to take on board the transition from not being a parent to being a parent. And I saw that, and I was I thought to myself, From a physical standpoint, I've been a health coach for 20 years, and I thought to myself or at this time, 15. And I thought to myself, there's no way I'm gonna drop the ball on This one. I've got all the knowledge. I've got a lot of experience in training people, All the nuts and bolts associated with nutrition, la la la.

Paul Glezer [00:16:16]:

Needless to say, I dropped the ball when I became a father. The transition was So far out of left field for me, I really, really struggled with it. And it took me some time for me to pick up the pieces and to understand that This is such a delicate fine balance to being able to give to be able to serve yourself and to be able to give to yourself so you can be available for your family so you can be the best person you can possibly be for your children and for your loved one. And this entity of family is Consistent of so many different entities, there's yourself as an individual with who you need to nourish unapologetically. And then if you're in a partnership, There's the partnership between yourself and your partner that you need to nourish as a separate entity, and that needs the spotlight that it deserves as well. And then you have the unique relationships that you're developing between yourself and your children that also need a spotlight. Now if you're transitioning From a 20 something year old or a 30 an early 30 year old who's, I don't know, kicking around playing footy and whatever you're doing, you're pretty much You are the center of your universe. Right? And you don't have a great deal of mind, space, and or care for those around you because you don't need to.

Paul Glezer [00:17:32]:

And then all of a sudden, you're thrusted into this universe where there are so many different things going on that need to be nourished. It's a massive transition. And the catch 22 is You can't be as available for these people without you being able to fill your own cup up, and that's one thing I learned very, very strongly. So I've started this group to be able to be a mouthpiece from my own experience, to be able to offer advice and or have a forum where men can express and exchange ideas between each other to be able to be as healthy as they possibly can embody and in mind so they can be able to be the most present, the most giving people they can be in a family environment.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:17]:

So talk to me about the group itself and what people are gonna find if they decide to join.

Paul Glezer [00:18:23]:

The the IFF Healthy Dads is a free forum and group where I basically, I cycle points of advice In my own experience and anecdotes from in my own experiences to challenges that I may have experienced in my own life And or I may have had with clients that I work with. That generally expands upon a number of different pillars, That is exercise or movement, nutrition, lifestyle advice, which is a massive one, and I could break that down The the 2 because people may just think to themselves what's lifestyle. And then there's mindset as well, which is the filter that Really embarks upon or that affects everything that I just spoke about before. So to touch on lifestyle, that really is being able to understand what Your unique characteristics or challenges are for you as a busy working dad. So if person a is a 9 to 5 or Nowadays, 8 to 6 or 7 worker who just doesn't have the time to be able to give to themselves And to their family. And my job is to be able to sit back and actually understand what their ideal week would look like And how we can get towards that weight as quickly as possible. How can we identify gaps in their schedule where they can give to themselves? How can we stack Certain habits. So we can make them as effective as possible and actually give them the opportunity to grow in health And also develop that presence of mind and consciousness so they can actually come back to their families and be able to give more and be more present.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:01]:

Comes to changing Your health changing kind of those habits, it does take time. It does take effort, and it's not always easy. And I think From some dads that I talk to, that's sometimes some of the things that get in the way of making those changes. For someone that is in that rut that that they just don't feel like they can start moving in that right direction, What are some easy things that you would say to them that they can start doing right from day 1 that can help to move them And move the needle in the right direction.

Paul Glezer [00:20:38]:

Well, I think he hit the nail on the head when he said the word easy. It needs to be an easy win. As human beings, we have a an internal dialogue that can really talk ourselves out of success, this self sabotage Narrative in our minds. And I've been dealing with dads now almost exclusively for about 4 years. And we had this amazing way of being able to just spell certain possibilities from our minds because we feel guilty for putting ourselves first in certain situations. But if we can make that win easy enough and achievable enough, then we use that habit to build on itself. So if you're looking to as a father, let's say you set a goal of running a marathon and you haven't run-in 5 years. Well, That that's fine.

Paul Glezer [00:21:27]:

It's great to have goals, but let's reverse engineer that goal back towards really tangible Habits that you can build 1 upon the other, and that might be for some person, it might be going for a jog around the block. For another person, It might be going for a walk every morning. For another person, it might be just putting your shoes on. And that might seem ridiculous to Somebody, saying, well, putting my shoes on, but that's just exercising that muscle of you being able to say, right, my intention Is in 5 years' time to have a marathon under my belt, well, what happens if I just put my shoes on for the next week? And then the week after that, I go for a walk for a month. And then the month after that, I am running around the block For 5 minutes, and you build up so on and so forth, and you become 1% better every day until 5 years down the track, You're running a marathon, and it doesn't it seems like it's impossible at the point in which we our minds are at, but we need to be able to Look at this and not overestimate what we can achieve farther down the track.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:36]:

So it sounds like you're working with men day by day, Step by step as they work toward finding that goal for themselves, but then helping them to achieve that goal And this group is just 1 piece of the puzzle. Am I reading that right?

Paul Glezer [00:22:51]:

The group out of Healthy Dads is for men. It's a community that men can exchange ideas with one another. It's something that I'm very passionate about, offering as much advice as I possibly can. You mentioned hero Tribe or hero life, that's the service that I offer for people who are after accountability, support, And framework to be able to achieve this on a personal level. I sit down with individuals and almost take a complete inventory of their life, understand what's happening on a personal level dynamically with their partners, if it's relevant dynamically with their children, And understanding exactly how we can develop solutions to be able to, Move the needle ever so slightly in every department of their life. It's remarkable what happens after you do it for just even 1 or 2 months. How unbelievable these men don't even recognize themselves after a couple of months.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:53]:

I really appreciate you sharing that. Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Paul Glezer [00:24:03]:

Ready.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:03]:

In one word, What is fatherhood? Trust. The time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Paul Glezer [00:24:11]:

The very moment she was born.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:13]:

Now if I was to talk to your daughter, how would she describe you as a dad?

Paul Glezer [00:24:17]:

I would like to think caring, unapologetically affectionate, doting, And at times challenging, although she may not have used those words.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:27]:

Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Paul Glezer [00:24:29]:

My daughter does. My children do.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:31]:

You've given a lot of piece of advice, things for people to think about and to challenge them in different ways. As you think about all dads that

Christopher Lewis [00:24:42]:

that are out there, what's 1 piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Paul Glezer [00:24:42]:

First thing that comes to mind is everything in parenthood, everything in childhood is a phase. Everything in human existence is a phase. So the, quote, unquote, bad times where your children are continuously waking up throughout the night refusing to go to sleep like my youngest son did last night, that's a phase. And whilst it feels like you are in the depths The despair and you feel like you're never gonna get out of it, it will eventually come to an end. And, likewise, when everything is humming along perfectly, Your children are just doing exactly as they are told. That will also naturally conclude, and the next cycle will begin. And This is, to me, just like a really great kind of mantra that that I tell myself, regularly to help myself survive the difficult times And to really be present for the good times, to be able to to use them, and also be present for the bad times because whilst They're challenging their their their growth.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:44]:

Paulie, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your own journey. If people wanna find out more about you, about your group, Where should they go to find out more?

Paul Glezer [00:25:53]:

The best place to go would be a couple of resources. There is www.yourherolife .com. I can also give you the art of healthy dads URL if you would like as well as my Instagram. Instagram URL is paul_glazer, g l e zed e r. The the group of the art of healthy dads is facebook.comforward/groupsforward/

Christopher Lewis [00:26:20]:

Out of healthy dads. We'll put long links in the notes today to make sure that you have those so that you can find Paulie And be able to connect with him if you want to. And and, Pauley, again, thank you so much for your sharing your own journey today, for sharing your own perspectives, and And the ups and downs of fatherhood for you as well, and I wish you all the best.

Paul Glezer [00:26:42]:

Thank you so much, Chris.

Christopher Lewis [00:26:43]:

If you've enjoyed today's Episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best Dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, Step by step road maps and more. You will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out atfatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today.

Christopher Lewis [00:27:29]:

Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared To helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:27:41]:

We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy Add in presents and bring your a game because those kids are growing fast. The time buzz by just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen,

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we welcome Malcolm Newsome, a children's book author from the Chicago area to the show. We discuss Malcolm's diverse background in software consulting and cybersecurity. They dive into Malcolm's children's book Dear Star Baby, which is inspired by the loss of two unborn children and reflects his personal journey as a father of five.

The conversation explores Malcolm's experiences as a father, especially when it comes to parenting daughters. He shares his initial excitement upon learning he would be a father to a girl and his mental and emotional preparations. They discuss the fears fathers often have when raising daughters and the significance of fostering a unique bond with each child.

The episode delves into how Malcolm balances his busy life, including work, writing, and being a father to five children. He emphasizes the intentional decisions he's made to prioritize family time and be present in their lives.

Malcolm shares his approach to building unique relationships with his daughters and how he embraces their individuality. He highlights the importance of letting them be themselves and supporting their interests, whether they align with traditional gender norms or not.

The conversation takes a heartfelt turn as Malcolm discusses the grief he experienced after the loss of two unborn children and the societal pressures fathers face when dealing with such tragedies. He acknowledges the need for more open conversations about pregnancy loss and offers insights into how he processed his own grief and found support in unexpected places.

Malcolm introduces his forthcoming children's book, Sydney's Big Speech, which tackles the issue of shattering stereotypes and empowering young girls, especially black girls, to speak their minds confidently. He shares the inspiration behind the book and how he's using it to create a positive legacy for his own daughters and young readers alike.

Finally, the episode concludes with a glimpse into the author's personal connection to his books, sharing touching moments when his children experienced and embraced the stories he wrote. Malcolm reflects on the emotional impact of writing these books and how they've strengthened his bond with his family.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:

Hey, everyone. This is Chris, and welcome to Dads with Daughters where we bring you guests to help you be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong independent women. We're excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. We have a great opportunity every week To be able to talk and walk on this path together of raising daughters. It's not always easy. It's not always going to be that Straight and narrow path, but it's important it's important to have these conversations, to talk, to know that you're not alone, And to know that there are other dads just like you that are struggling through it, that are working through it, that are working to be the best dad that they can be, and that's what this podcast is all about. I love being able to talk with you every week and bring you different guests Bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that can help you to be that better dad That you can learn from what they've gone through because every father's journey is just a little bit different, And there's no one right way to father.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:24]:

So being able to listen to other dads and to connect with other dads is definitely something that All of us need to be able to be the best dad that we want to be. So today, we've got another great dad with us. Malcolm Newsom is with us. And Malcolm's a children's book author from the Chicago area, and he has worked in a lot of different areas. He used to be a vice president of a software consulting firm and now works in cybersecurity. But on top of that, like I said, he's a children's author. We're going to be talking about 1 book that he wrote called Dear Star Baby, and that book is a book that was written After the experience that he had with the loss of 2 unborn children. And we're also going to talk about that.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:13]:

On top of this, we're going to talk about another book that he has coming out in the near future, and we're going to be learning, of course, more about his own journey as a Father of 5. I'm really excited to have him here. Malcolm, thanks so much for being here today.

Malcolm Newsome [00:02:27]:

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I really love that intro. So much of what you said is true and resonates with me.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:33]:

Now I know you've got 5 kids, 3 boys, 2 girls. And I'm gonna focus on those girls because, you know, this is the Dads with Daughters podcast. So I want to turn the clock back in time And go to that 1st moment, that first moment when you found out that you're going to be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Malcolm Newsome [00:02:53]:

I actually did not find out Until she was born, and this was very intentional because at the time that she was born, Was just as the gender reveals were gaining popularity, they've been around, but they were really starting to become a much bigger thing where people were doing these much more elaborate gender reveals. And my wife and I made an a very intentional decision in that we did not wanna find out prior to. And This was, I I think, an important decision because as we'll get into, I always saw myself as A dad to girls, and I always wanted a daughter even from my high school days. And so we fast forward. We're in that moment. My wife gives birth, and, you know, it's just it's the it's it's almost those that moment of, like, feeling like Time is slowing down. Everything's in slow motion because I'm waiting for the doctor to say, you have a And it's it's a baby girl. You know, it's one of those that it's it's hard to capture the feeling.

Malcolm Newsome [00:04:08]:

It's hard to capture the emotion and all of that, But I can see it. You know? I can play it over and over again in my mind, and it's so vivid, but it's also, yes, in slow motion.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:18]:

Oh, I know that the first 3 kids that you had were boys, and you've now had 2 girls as well. Talk to me about the difference And what you had to do to parent and father and maybe a little bit of a different way for your daughters Dan, you may have had to have done with your sons.

Malcolm Newsome [00:04:41]:

One of the things that I told myself fairly early on is that I really wanted to kind of avoid the sort of stereotypical or typical mode of raising a girl, like, You know? So I very intentionally would never call her princess, for example. I was not super into, like, Oh, we're gonna do a bunch of girly things. I really did not wanna do that. And To that end, I decided also early on that so when my first son was born, I gave him the nickname mister chairman. And Then my so when my 2nd child was born, I was like, okay. What's what's that nickname gonna be? And so that ended up being mister president. The third one ended up being mister Monarch. And so now we have this this trend of nicknames, and I and I wanted them to have nicknames that were ones that where they could see themselves in positions of leadership and influence and all that.

Malcolm Newsome [00:05:45]:

And so I I made the decision early that I there like, no. There would be no princess. Like, I'm not using that. And I gave my first daughter The nickname, miss director. And throughout her growing years, I started to realize it doesn't matter what I say because she ends up being girly girl, all about princesses, All about pink and glitter and shiny things and stars, and I'm like, she is who she is, and that was none of my doing because I really tried the hardest I could to to give a different perspective. So, nevertheless, it's fun. In terms of how I parent them differently, I don't know. I it's a hard question to answer From the standpoint of I really have tried my best to mirror what they show me in terms of who they are, even from early ages.

Malcolm Newsome [00:06:45]:

And so if they're into you know, like I just mentioned with my daughter, if, you know, she's into dolls and stuff like that. So, alright, let's Support that, but she will run outside and play in dirt and play in mud and pick up bugs and all that. And so I'm like, alright. I'm here for that too. Right? And She loves gymnastics and flipping and stuff like that. Alright. I'm here for that. And and so what I try to do is let them be who they are and encourage Who they are to the best of my ability.

Christopher Lewis [00:07:16]:

Thanks so much for sharing that. You know, one of the things that a lot of dads have daughters tell me is that When they have their daughters, especially if it's a first time dad, but sometimes if it's a first time father of a daughter, that there's some fear, some fear That goes along with raising daughters and stepping into that new role of being a father to a daughter. What would you say has been your biggest fear In raising

Malcolm Newsome [00:07:41]:

daughters. My biggest fear is knowing that they're growing up in a world in a Society, that is going to devalue them. My biggest fear is evil lurking around the corner. Unfortunately, I rehearse all of the Potential terrible things that happen to women. Everything from cat calls to harassment. And that's not just women, that's girls too. Right? And so that starts at an early age. Those are my biggest fears with regard to raising girls, and so I don't know that that will ever go away, but a lot of the way I parent is to try to plant seeds in them Such that such that they can navigate the cruelties of this world.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:25]:

Now I mentioned the fact that you're a children's author. You work in cybersecurity. You're a busy guy. You've got A lot of things going on, and you've got 5 kids. You're balancing that. You're you're wearing a lot of different hats. Talk to me about balance And what you had to do to be able to balance all of these things that you do with also being able to be that engaged Father that you want to be.

Malcolm Newsome [00:08:50]:

Balance is a hard thing for me. I think that ultimately though, usually, the way I answer that question is The way I think about balance is that often means that there's a lot of things I don't do and there's a lot of things that I cannot do, and so I'm I feel like I'm kind of Often or have often, at least in the past, made intentional decisions to preserve family time, to preserve Creative time to preserve reading time, like those sorts of things. And so that means that I don't regularly go out for night Nights on the town just hanging out with buddies. That that means certain things. That means I don't watch a whole lot of TV or spend a whole lot of time on social media So that I can be present, things like that. So these are intentional trade offs that I make. That means I needed to say no to certain opportunities, Again, to preserve family time and preserve the priorities that I have in my life.

Christopher Lewis [00:09:45]:

Now you mentioned you have 5 kids. I said you have 3 boys and 2 girls. And one of the things that comes to my mind is that every father has to be able to find ways to build those unique relationships with their kids. You've got your 3 boys and 2 girls. Talk to me about what you had to do with your daughters to be able to build those unique relationships With each of them knowing that every child is a little bit different.

Malcolm Newsome [00:10:14]:

Yeah. That's such a good question. Unfortunately, that my wife Also values that, and we both value this, like, individual connection and individual time With our children, and we and so that is something that we think a lot about. And so what we have done is and we really honestly should do it more than we do, but, Usually, it works out to be a couple times a year. We'll we'll do, like, daddy daughter dates or Mom son dates or whatever or just daddy child date sort of thing where even if it's just going to get like, an intentional going to get ice cream With just one of the kids or something like that that set apart something that we don't normally do to try to have individual alone time with our Kids, and I feel like that's probably been the most helpful thing is because once you sort of get Them away from the normalcy of life, you see different sides of them too. They show up in a different way, and it's it's really kind of fascinating to see. So, yes, we try to do that. Things with my daughters, I've done you know, I mentioned ice cream.

Malcolm Newsome [00:11:23]:

We've done daddy daughter dances, stuff like that, Pedicure pedicure dates or just going mini golfing, things like that. Just going out to have some fun.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:32]:

Mentioned at the beginning of the show that you are a children's author. You have a book called Dear Starbaby that you wrote after the loss of 2 unborn children. And I guess first and foremost, What I'd like to do is go back and turn things back just a little bit to have you give me the story. Tell me about the impetus for the book, why you decided you wanted to step into the realm of writing a children's book, But then let's talk about this topic. It's a painful topic. It's a topic that that everybody talks about. Why did you delve into this topic And move into this area to write about this painful topic.

Malcolm Newsome [00:12:16]:

The moment where I put it together that I feel like I have something to say On this topic was when a fellow publishing colleague posted on Twitter just that She had been struggling with her miscarriage, and it was this sort of, we need to talk about this more, and she was kind of Making a bold stance and sharing about it, and it was that sort of like, yeah, you know, nobody talks about this. And That was true of my own experience where when we suffered our 1st major miscarriage, it was Kind of like all of a sudden, I started to find out, like, oh, this person's experienced that too. Oh, this person. Oh, this person. And then But you don't find out until you're going through it. And hopefully, you've you know? And not everyone finds out like that, but and so it was like, wow. There's this whole mystery To this horror that's happening, estimates of, like, 1 in 4 people. And so I had since our first miscarriage, I had done so much processing and had talked to folks here and there that had also lost babies and struggle to mostly men, and I felt like I had at least in those conversations, I felt like I had a perspective that I wanted to share.

Malcolm Newsome [00:13:35]:

And where this Also is important as it relates to the daddy-daughter conversations because our first miscarriage was After our 3rd son was born, and the thing that I struggled with the hardest again, going back to the fact that I always wanted A girl. The thing that I struggled with the hardest was, what if that was my daughter? What if that was her and I never get to meet her? And so through that Pain and that grieving process, that processing, I started to realize that for myself, the hardest part of this whole thing was Confronting the fact that I had an expectation of a future reality that now was not going to be that, Now I had to kind of rectify because, at least for me, when I got the news my wife is pregnant, I'm like, okay. It's a done deal. Pregnancy loss was nowhere on my radar, And so so I start organizing my life around these hopes and dreams, this sort of to me, in my mind, it was like an automatic thing. And yeah. So then I had to regroup. And so a lot of that for me is also representative book, the Kind of wondering and wishing the hopes, the dealing with, I wonder what this could have been, but it's not going to be that anymore. That was the hardest thing for me, and that's what I also try to represent in the book, where which I felt like maybe others Would resonate with as well.

Christopher Lewis [00:15:03]:

No. You're completely right that when you talk about this topic, it's not something that many men talk about. I've heard women talk about it, and it seems like there is community around women that they can find and support for women as they go through That process for themselves, but a lot of men seem to bottle it up. And they don't always Surround themselves with support in that regard. For you personally, as you were going through that for yourself, how did you find support? And how did you find that support and balance that support for yourself while at the same time your wife was dealing with her own loss And you were dealing with that together. So in all of that, you and your wife were grieving.

Malcolm Newsome [00:15:50]:

I think the reality is I probably would not have done it very well had it not been for a couple of really good folks That I had in my life. And because, let's face it, one of the things about our society is that most of us are taught as men To just like, you gotta move forward. You gotta take care of everything. You gotta make sure the family's good. You gotta make sure there's a sort of sentiment that, at least, I grew up with That that you don't you don't buckle under pressure. You just need to keep going. Right? And I think, at least in my experience personally and my experience talking with other men, is that they've Felt similarly and that it's almost this sort of sentiment that we grew up with that there's no time for grieving. You gotta push through and be the support, And like I said, fortunately, it worked out for me in that the job I had at the time, the woman who was running our HR, I let her know because, you know, I go into work, and I'm like, alright.

Malcolm Newsome [00:16:50]:

This is what's happening. I need a little bit of time off here, and She recognized correctly, and she asked me if she could connect me with another guy who at the company who had experienced Loss as well. And she got my approval for that. I said, sure. Yeah. I'm happy to check with him and see if he's willing to share all this. And So almost right away, I had another male and somebody that I respected and trusted that I could connect with. He provided resources.

Malcolm Newsome [00:17:21]:

He he was a sounding board. He was somebody that I could talk to, connect with. And so I felt like I was kinda lucky in that regard Because it's so much the norm that, to your point, men are sort of left out of the equation even today that Men are sort of forgotten about. No one really checks on them, see how you're doing, etcetera, etcetera. But, yes, my experience was kind of, In many ways, the opposite of that, in that I had the I had the good fortune of connecting with this, another man who had dealt with it, and he checked in on me for For some length of time, and that was a beautiful thing.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:58]:

Now as you and your wife were grieving, you're also a family. And as parents, You're grieving the loss of your child, but you're also parenting your other kids. And they may or may not understand what's going on Depending on how much they knew about the pregnancy upfront. So talk a little bit about that. So talk a little bit about that And how you and your wife had to help your kids process this. And it might be that it was this book that helped you process and help them to be able to understand what was going on. But how did you deal with this And help your kids through that loss.

Malcolm Newsome [00:18:38]:

It was one of those things that we did the best we could because we went Looking for resources, and there were none in terms of how do you address this with kids. None that we found anyway. And The the the the sort of the premise of the book is taken exactly from that experience of us sharing With our young boys at the time, they had been asking for a new sibling. As a part of their Christmas gifts That year, let them know, like, that's how we announced it to them, was on Christmas. And Then we fast forward, you know, about a month, and that's when the loss occurred. And so now we had to we it was basically, like, taking we had to, like, Take their Christmas gift back. And so the conversation is hard on its own, but when you layer it When you layer on that sort of excitement that we had built up, that additional excitement, there was no playbook for us. There was no playbook, and that set the stage for the premise or plot of this book of, hey, child's excited, And then all of a sudden, we've gotta break the news to them.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:53]:

Now you also mentioned that you found resources for yourself, some of which had been shared with you from your colleague at your work. I'm sure there were some other resources that your wife found for herself. Were some of the most beneficial resources that you found for your wife, for your kids, for you that existed and maybe still exist?

Malcolm Newsome [00:20:14]:

You know, the funny thing is I don't remember the titles, and largely because they were not resources for me. They were mostly resources for my wife that I kind of read bits and pieces of. And the biggest help for me at that point in time was The connection with this other guy that we got a chance to talk through it. But, yeah, the unfortunately, I don't remember titles, all that. It ended up being this thing where I had to for me, it was the conversation. And then just for me, it was Recognizing that I needed to process, and I remember making a very intentional decision to Not push it down, but to really sort of work my way through it mentally to keep it there and to Try to figure out, okay, what what are my big struggles here? And, again, that came out through the conversations. So While I would not call it therapy, it sort of filled that void, or I suppose helped in a way that, like, therapy would.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:19]:

Now I mentioned at the beginning of this book that you have a new book coming out called Sydney's Big speech, and that book, as you told me, is very tied into being a dad to a daughter. Tell me more about the book, and what What made you decide to move into another children's book in a completely different topic?

Malcolm Newsome [00:21:37]:

What folks will probably see of me as they follow my kind of publishing journey is that many of my early books are sort of like family, daddy daughter sort of themed, or at least There's these sort of there's these sort of overlays between, like, the dad and daughter relationship, and that's coming out of a couple places. That's coming out of this, My love for children, that's coming on my love for family and especially being a girl dad, but they're also still young. My youngest Right now I was 4, and I learned early that the time that it takes to publish a picture book from from when that book is acquired is typically about 2 years. And so a lot of my early inspiration or that first story well, motivation for For even pursuing publishing in the 1st place was that I wanted my kids to have I wanted my kids to have access to some things that I've That felt like was not entering the world and probably would never enter the world. And so I'm kind of writing for them, but I'm writing also for Those that might be similar to them in some ways, or I'm writing for this sort of projection of what if They are this way. What sort of message do I wanna leave for them? And that was Sydney's big speech. That's where Sydney's big speech came from. It came from this place of Girls, especially black girls, tend to be put into this place of, like the Stereotype is that typically they're loud, boisterous, and then from there, there's a sort of Projection in terms of what they might do in their lives.

Malcolm Newsome [00:23:22]:

This is a societal kind of thing that I'm speaking to. I wanted to cut through that, And I grew up with and around, like, my mom and my sister, for example, that were not boisterous. They were very quiet, Much more introverted, but yet they'd still did phenomenal things, and I wanted to show that. And also the backdrop, I'm thinking I don't know what my daughters are gonna be like. I don't know if they're gonna be more quiet or introverted or if they will struggle with public speaking or anything like that. So on the chance that they do, I want them to have this story. And that's effectively what the story is about. It is Sydney who is, on her 1st day of school.

Malcolm Newsome [00:24:09]:

She needs to stand up and introduce herself. She freezes, and the words won't come out. Right? And so then the story then becomes about she gets she gets this assignment to give a speech, And the story then becomes about her process of, like, she knows what she wants to say, but will she be able to say the things That she really wants to say, and they're very big things. Where where the dad part comes in is She and her dad have this special bond, and he's the one who encourages encourages her and presents her with some famous luminaries and shows them their speeches. These are speeches from Carol Moseley Braun, Condoleezza Rice, Shirley Chisholm and vice president Kamala Harris. So it's a way of taking inspiration from These phenomenal black women who have transcended who have left marks indelible marks on America's history, but along the way, they They sort of also had to overcome certain things as well. So that's the premise, and we don't see other parts of their They're family in this. It's really just Sydney and her dad and the special relationship that they have.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:34]:

Love the concept. Love the perspective as well. One of the things that I wonder when I think about this is for this book as well as your previous book. You have your own sounding board right there at home to share the stories with. What kind of response have you gotten in from your kids For both of the stories that you are putting out into the world.

Malcolm Newsome [00:25:57]:

Some stories I share with them and some I don't. The Dear Star Baby, I did not share with them while it was in development, but I did share it with them after we got the physical copies. And This was very instrumental for my older daughter because we also had not really talked to her about miscarriage and about our the loss of the children that we had. And so this was also Her first introduction to pregnancy loss and the reality that she's got some siblings in the stars. And the way that she experienced the book, internalized it, and then would Talk about it would bring me to tears because it's like, okay, she got it. And I remember one moment where we were leaving a restaurant, and this was After I had the book maybe for about a month or so, and I had to read read the story to her several times. But We're leaving a restaurant. She points up to a star in the sky, and she's like, that's our star baby right there.

Malcolm Newsome [00:27:04]:

And I was like, oh, man. Like, you almost took me out. You know? Like, I was almost out for the count right there, but so that was Amazing. Sydney's big speech, this is another one that I know I shared it with them. Once I got the the digital work, I did read it to them, and they enjoyed it. I think it's also gonna be one that when they have that book in their hands, they'll be able to experience it in a different way. Kids oftentimes are very tactile, so it's a little bit different, like, when you're reading something on a screen versus holding in the hands, and they can flip through it and they Take time and point to the thing and all that. But a part of this experience that they don't really know and that I'll be able to share with them is that in my early drafts of writing this story, I would I would be holding 1 of them or 2 of them, whatever, would be, like, in my lap doing whatever, watching TV or whatever, and I'm, like, drafting it on my phone While I'm with them and so there was one moment in particular with my youngest who was still an infant at the time where I'm, like, holding her in my lap, and this was the very 1st draft.

Malcolm Newsome [00:28:17]:

I finished the story. It's like the last line, and I just start weeping, sobbing. And this is not something that she'll remember necessarily because she was an infant at the time, but that's how much the story meant to me. And this is now a sort of legacy that I'll be able to share with her because I was thinking of her As I was writing this, every line was for them, and that conclusion was like, okay. There it is. And I can't wait to share that story with them, like, when we get the physical copies, and then I read it to them.

Christopher Lewis [00:28:55]:

Oh, this book sounds like a book that is definitely going to be a special one for the family. I appreciate you sharing that. And I look forward to seeing the new book hitting the shelves and being able to encourage others to read this for their families, for their kids, Because I know it's going to help them in many different ways. Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood five, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a Dad, are you ready?

Malcolm Newsome [00:29:23]:

Alright. I'm ready.

Christopher Lewis [00:29:24]:

In one word, what is fatherhood? Love. When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter? Haven't. Now if I was to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad? Silly. Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Malcolm Newsome [00:29:41]:

My dad.

Christopher Lewis [00:29:42]:

Now you've given a number of pieces of advice, number of things that you've learned along the way. As you think about all dads out there, What's one thing that you'd want to leave with every dad?

Malcolm Newsome [00:29:54]:

I think probably 2 things come to mind, and that is the first is I believe what our families need the most from us is the real, True vulnerable us, and when we show up that way, they get to see our love, our passion, But they also get to see where we struggle. They also get to see our fears, those sorts of things. Patience is another thing that I'm kind of I feel like I'm constantly working on, but that I encourage and exhort other males just patience, especially with young kids. Well, all kids, Patient. And then the 3rd is pursue wisdom, and the reason why I say that is because Our world is loaded with so much. Our perceptions have been shaped, you know, really by the world mostly, right, our society. And The only way that I think we can really combat that is to spend time with that and, like, dissect. Okay.

Malcolm Newsome [00:30:56]:

Where did this come from? Does this have to be true? Does this have to be true of my children or my family And all that. And so that, I think, comes from pursuing wisdom.

Christopher Lewis [00:31:06]:

Malcolm, I just want to say thank you for sharing what you've shared today, for putting it out there. If people wanna find out more about you, where's the best place for them to go?

Malcolm Newsome [00:31:16]:

You can find me on most of the socials, primarily Instagram And now threads. I'm not as active on x, but you can also and that's just Malcolm Newsom at any of those, malcolm.newsom. I also have a website, malcolmnewsom.com, which is also very easy to find me there. And If nothing else, then you could either Google Dear Star Baby or Sydney's Big Speech, and you'll find me as a result of those. And I should mention too that Sydney's Big Speech will be out will officially release in February, but presales Are available now anywhere books are sold.

Christopher Lewis [00:31:57]:

Again, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here, for sharing all that you've gone through as a father, And I wish you all the best.

Malcolm Newsome [00:32:04]:

Alright. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Christopher Lewis [00:32:06]:

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are Figuring it out as they go along. And the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step road maps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, But more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together.

Christopher Lewis [00:32:55]:

We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Malcolm Newsome [00:33:04]:

We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. Astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and be

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

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In this episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we welcome Cordan James, the newly appointed executive director of Fathering Together, a 501(c)(3) organization that is the host of this podcast.

Cordan James is a father of three, one of whom is a daughter and he opens up about his journey into fatherhood, sharing his excitement upon learning he would be a father to a girl. He recounts his preparations, both financial and mental, and the steps he took to ensure he was ready to provide and protect for his family, emphasizing the importance of mental health in his journey as a father. Cordan reflects on his past experiences as an army veteran dealing with PTSD and the importance of maintaining his mental well-being as a parent.

The conversation also discusses fears that fathers often experience in raising daughters, with Cordan acknowledging the fear of failure and the concern about maintaining a strong bond as his daughter grows older. He highlights the significance of intentional parenting and creating a unique connection with his daughter. Cordan elaborates on the special activities and shared experiences that have strengthened their bond, from touching moments and engaging in activities to volunteering together as a family.

The discussion further explores how Cordan balances the demands of work, running his own business, and being the executive director of Fathering Together while prioritizing his family and centering his life around them. Cordan's approach to work and family life allows for effective balance and aligns with the organization's mission.

Cordan shares his journey into the Fathering Together communities and the impact they had on his perspective of fatherhood. He attributes his decision to become the executive director to the example set by other fathers and the dedication to fatherhood that he witnessed within the community. He discusses his vision for the organization, emphasizing the importance of equality, breaking the stigma around fatherhood, and supporting fathers in being intentional in their roles. Cordan underlines the significance of fathers knowing they are enough and having a support system to drive positive change in the perception of fatherhood.

In conclusion, Christopher acknowledges the ongoing work required to change the perception of fatherhood and praises Cordan for stepping into the role of executive director to lead the organization into its next phase. The episode is a testament to the importance of fathers' roles in parenting and the community's dedication to supporting one another on this shared journey.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:

Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, Independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. We have an opportunity to be able to Talk together, work together to be able to support each other in this journey that we're on in raising daughters. Such an important journey, such an important job that we all have in being fathers of daughters. And I love being able to sit down with you every week, to be able to have these conversations, to be able to work with you and talk to you, to hear from you About the things that you are dealing with, the struggles that you're dealing with, whatever it may be. Every week, I also love being able to bring you different guests. People that are walking this journey alongside you or have resources that'll help you to be an even more engaged dad, A better father in the end.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]:

And this week, we've got another great guest with us. Corden James is with us today. And Corden is the brand new executive director of Fathering Together. We've been talking about Fathering Together for years, And Fathering Together is the five zero one c three organization that this podcast is a part of. And Corden joined our organization, Okay. Actually, quite a while ago, but joined us as the executive director just recently. And we're gonna get to know him a little bit more. But first and foremost, We've got to get to know him more as a father first, Cordan, thanks so much for being here today.

Cordan James [00:01:52]:

Absolutely. Honored to be here, Chris.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:54]:

It is my pleasure having you here today. I love being able to talk to different dads about the experiences that they've had. You got 3 kids, one of which is a daughter. I wanna go back in time. I wanna turn that clock all the way back to that 1st moment that you found out that you were going to be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Cordan James [00:02:10]:

I was excited. I've always wanted to have my daughter. Just as soon as I found out, I, you know, I started the books and finding out all I could about raising a girl. First of all, just having a baby, period, and what my goals and responsibilities are. And then, you know, from that kind of plan in my legacy as far as being a father to her, getting myself set up and financially stable and my mental health in the right place. And yeah.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:33]:

When you said that you needed to get your mental health in the right place, talk to me about that. What did that what does that mean to you, and what did you have to do to prepare yourself?

Cordan James [00:02:40]:

Well, Chris, I am an army veteran. I, you know, spent 5 years active duty army. So when I speak of mental health was really making sure that I had my anxiety in check, my PTSD that I experienced at war and just from life, being able to just find my calmness, find my spirituality, And, you know, I think most of all, just being able to to be present for fatherhood. You know? There's no there's no workbook when it comes to raising children, Raising a daughter. I'm used to raising boys, and I think that's a it's a different approach raising a daughter.

Christopher Lewis [00:03:14]:

As a veteran, as someone that has dealt with PTSD. There are other dads that are dealing with that as well, and some may have Dealt with it and and really worked through it. Others may have set it to the side and are still working through it themselves. Talk to me about the journey that you had to go on and what you had to do to prepare yourself and get through, Like you said, in getting yourself mentally ready, but to work through that PTSD that that you Have in your life. And I say have, because I know that it's a constant journey. But talk to me about what you had, what you have to do on a daily basis, On a regular basis, what you had to do prior to your daughter being born to be able to work through that PTSD.

Cordan James [00:04:03]:

Absolutely. I think coming home from Iraq, it started off with Therapy. Being able to meet with my VA therapist on a regular basis, setting that up. I would say another important thing for me was, fitness, Being able to to check my health, being on a regular workout schedule, and, you know, some of the other things like doing things for myself. I think after serving in the military, you know, there's 1% of us Serve in the military, so it's not like I'm able to walk around every day with people that who share the same experiences as I do. So that, you know, that vetting myself, Finding security within my own self, getting on a great schedule that took care of me first before I'm able to pour out for my children and my my partner at her mother, you know, that it took reading some books on how to how to speak to children, you know, on how to to get to their level, to bring a level of understanding. The normal development of a child was important for me to understand. Right? Having anxiety and PTSD.

Cordan James [00:04:57]:

Sometimes, you know, screaming from a child can be very triggering. When you're not able to control the situation, you're not able to calm my child down. Those are things that I faced as a father.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:07]:

So in having this in your life And having this as something that you're constantly working on. How do you talk to your kids about PTSD And what you're dealing with, because mental health is not easy to talk to anyone about, but let alone when you live with individuals or have people in their life and they don't understand what's going on. So how do you or how have you Been able to talk to your kids about this so that they understand it and that they understand what you're going through.

Cordan James [00:05:38]:

I think probably the one of the most pivotal times for me was In waking up with my child, kinda had a rough start to to the day, and I was having a very rough time commuting with her. And I had just looked looked in the very back of the seat, and I told her, hey. Hey, baby. Daddy's gotta process something, and it's gonna it's gonna look differently than what you're used to seeing, but I feel like I'm gonna cry. And at that time, I had I had found out about Emotional freedom techniques or tapping. And so I had let her know that if daddy's gonna process something, that I'm okay, but I'm gonna tap and let these emotions out. And I went through that. She asked if I was okay.

Cordan James [00:06:12]:

I ended I did end up breaking down, having some tears and some some calming affirmations to reassure myself that I was in a safe place And that I was okay. And I think the you know, we talk about modeling as a parent, modeling the behavior of processing my emotion. Right? I set aside time to process it. I did my tapping, which is my self care, right, caring for myself. You know? And I think where most paid off was a few weeks later, I remember hearing her get frustrated, and, I looked over at her, and she actually began to do the exact same tapping that I was doing. And so I think, you know, she's 9 now. I wouldn't say that she necessarily understands PTSD, but she does understand that when there is an emotion, that you process That you feel it so you can heal it. And I think that's been the most powerful thing between us.

Cordan James [00:06:57]:

It's improved our communication styles. It's improved my ability to say that I'm Sorry for overreacting or or projecting something that I may be feeling onto her. So it's made for a great communication the older that she gets.

Christopher Lewis [00:07:10]:

Talk to a lot of dads about having daughters, and one of the things that I hear from a lot of dads is that there are fears When it comes to not only fatherhood, but especially fears when it comes to raising a daughter. Now you said earlier that You knew how to raise a son, but that you needed to learn about how to raise a daughter. So as you think about Fear. Can you think about raising your daughter? What was the biggest fear or is the biggest fear that you have in raising your daughter? You know,

Cordan James [00:07:39]:

I think in all the conversations with other fathers, I think I would have to Echo the fear of failure. I remember some work that we did together a couple years ago, Chris. We asked, what would you not want your children to say about you or about your parenting? Right? And I think being able to be there so, you know, I would never want my children to say that I wasn't there, that I wasn't present, that I constantly use these opportunities to teach Instead of to get to know them, the fear of failure with her, I think, comes from I think everybody loves to tell me that As your daughter grows older, that she's gonna fall away from you, that there's going to be this huge disruption in life and she's not gonna like you. And I think as a young father, that was very daunting That this relationship could dwindle as she gets older. I think it really put it in the perspective of the work that I'm doing with her today, and I call it work because it's very intentional with her. From the way that I speak to her to the way that I stand around her when she was smaller. She's kinda tall now. She's 9 and she's 5 foot.

Cordan James [00:08:36]:

So she comes to the bottom of my chin. But as she was younger, you know, it it took me getting down to a knee. They say, you know, getting down to their level as you are the Parent, get down to their level, and they might hear you a little bit differently and better and and receive what you're saying more. Little things like that helped me soften my approach with her gave me I you know, it allowed room for more play, more discussion, for more ways to connect, whether it was painting nails together or Playing in the park or our favorite thing to do is literally walking on curbing, walking on the sidewalk and the very you know, the little curves. I don't know why, but we've just always had this little special moment. We can do that for hours and just laugh and, you know, just connect with each other.

Christopher Lewis [00:09:16]:

Now you have 3 kids. Each one of them is completely unique. They are different points in their lives, and you have to do what you can do to be able to develop those unique relationships With your kids, what do you do to be able to create that unique bond with your daughter?

Cordan James [00:09:32]:

I think that's a great question. If I had to look on a day to day, I say, Especially now, it's a habit of finding a way to connect with her no matter what. And whether it's when I pick her up from boys you know, if we start in the morning, I take her to boys and girls club. As soon as we wake up, it's very intentional with Hey, baby. How did you sleep? We get our cuddles in. We're very big cuddlers. So, you know, that's something that's part of our security is is Touching and hugging and kissing and yelling I love yous and the music choices, having little dance parties. Those are constants in our home.

Cordan James [00:10:02]:

That is just part of our Family culture now. So when I say connecting, especially as she gets older nowadays at 9, it's I hosted a sleepover last week. She had her best friend over and, you know, I had a girl's night with them, and then we had a great morning the next day. Their friend left, but Just providing creating new spaces for her to grow. It might be asking something very specific about her day. Definitely don't allow for just the, how was your day? Oh, it was good. Well, I wanna know a little bit more, so I'm gonna ask some questions that are open ended and and joke with her and and find some commonality. I think, at this point.

Cordan James [00:10:38]:

I appreciate the ways that we connect, and I appreciate the way that it comes back as well. She's definitely a little mama. She'll if dad's sick, she'll look after me. If sometimes she wants to Feed dad while we're eating dinner. She wants to feed me fries or something along those lines. So just those beautiful ways that I would never expect her to do those things for me, but she has it in her heart and in her soul. Other things we've done to connect is, like, community service. A few years ago, we faced a divorce Together and the separation of that in different homes and coparenting schedules, and I found that volunteering together was our biggest Connection.

Cordan James [00:11:15]:

I didn't have the money in the world to be able to take her to to do everything, but we would go to churches and volunteer our time, setting up pantries, Feeding the homeless, litter pickups. She got very involved in my own work as a mover or even as a mentor. She's been present for all my mentorships And business meetings and and thrills so forth.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:38]:

Sounds like special bonds and special times and definitely an opportunity to be able to make those connections and memories that will last for a lifetime, which is always exciting and important. You're really busy. You're a busy guy. You have got a lot of things going on. You You're running a business. You're now the executive director of Fathering Together. So there's a lot of things that you're gonna have to balance, a lot of hats that you have to wear. How do you balance work and raising your kids?

Cordan James [00:12:04]:

It's interesting because if we look at the history of Korten James and fathering together, So about 2019 is when I processed my divorce, and 2019 is when I also found Dads With Daughters. So it has very much led me to be this executive director. And I say that from the sense that since I joined fathering together, I've centered family first. My life today as a entrepreneur and now as the executive director of of Fathering Together, my family is still the center, more so today than it ever has been. I worked more corporate America, and it never fared well. I was always the father that would be present for my daughter didn't go to dentist without me. She didn't go to doctor's It's without me being able to pick up from school or if there's a sick day, I'm present for it. I would say so Over the few years, it's been a I've been able to center around my kids.

Cordan James [00:12:56]:

As a as a entrepreneur now owning my own business, I can take the day off. We can take a mental health day today. She's 9 now, so she can come to work with me. I have plenty of opportunities where she comes to work with me on a Saturday for a couple of hours and move some boxes my customers and tells my employees that she's the boss of them because her dad's the boss. So just, again, centering family first has has always been the priority, and finally being able to make that come true amongst the fears of not being able to. As a father, again, somebody who has to provide and protect, You can't just drop the job. You can't take large risks that may cost you your time with your children. So it's definitely paid off over these last few years.

Cordan James [00:13:38]:

Now it's I'm I'm home when I want to be with enough time for her and I. My evenings are set aside and I, and, it couldn't be a better feeling.

Christopher Lewis [00:13:48]:

You started getting into your journey with dads with daughters, dads with sons, fathering together. Talk to me let's go back to 2019. What was going on that led you to the communities? What how did you find out about the communities, and how did you get involved first as you were joining our communities?

Cordan James [00:14:10]:

Honestly, I think I might have connected with Brian somehow on Facebook. I don't know if we actually talked to each other or if I found Dads With Daughters first. I'm pretty sure he invited me into Dads With Daughters. And from there, we became friends and talked more, and I finally was able to meet you. And, You know, I think it was just when I look at Dads With Daughters, the Facebook group, I don't even know how many thousands of people were in that. So it was very it was very grassroots. There was new projects. I think we were starting off with Dove Men's Care.

Cordan James [00:14:41]:

I always recall the self esteem project that we did with them, which was kinda like my 1st intentional thing with my child. I think we talked a lot about fathers knowing their legacy as far as careers, But what is your legacy as a father? So I think it was all those conversations that brought me to a deeper understanding of who I really want to be as a dad. Not just My child's here, and we're gonna go day by day. But just an intentionality to my thought process, the way that I speak, and it drives everything of who I am as a dad today. So just great conversations, the groups, more conversations with Brian, watching you and Brian raise your daughters who are older than mine. I think for once in my life, I actually had like minded individuals when it came to fatherhood. Fathers who, you know, intergenerational, who knew what they were doing and why they were doing it. Being able to hear their mistakes and their triumphs Gave me a better perspective on what I wanna do and how I wanna be.

Christopher Lewis [00:15:38]:

So you're sharing that. Now over the years, you got more involved. You Started to engage with other people. And at some point, you decided that you wanted to take that next step to, be considered for the executive director role. What made you decide that you wanted to take this larger step To lead the organization into the future.

Cordan James [00:16:00]:

I mean, this sounds cliche, but first of all, the example that you and Brian set as fathers has always been motivational, inspirational to me. In my work since 2019, I'll be you know, starting my own businesses and becoming a youth and family mentor, teaching social emotional learning, and And learning peer support and having I think it was you know what? I think it was it was a lot of the leadership opportunities that Brian and you gave Within the group, from different speaking engagements, the different panels, the workshops that we held, just and then just to find that there's more fathers, there's new fathers, there's Other fathers out there that are looking for much of the same. So I think this vision today of having our school based chapters and our community chapters And our online our virtual presence and our in person presence just makes sense. Fatherhood is definitely again, My life my number one is fatherhood, and then my work comes second. And I think being able to not only teach and learn alongside other brothers Has been good for my mental health. I think today as the executive director, it's beautiful just as you know, whether it's different post within the group of dads looking For support or whether it's a a children's issues or child support or just basic support for the day to day grind of being a father, It's the narrative that we continue to talk about. Just wanting to push that further and further into new areas, into new homes, And being able to mix with mothers as a lot of my work before as a youth and family mentor started off with mothers who typically didn't have fathers present. It's just that dedication to fatherhood realizing that the work that we do today matters.

Cordan James [00:17:40]:

And I think on a global level, we're creating Spaces and making changes for things that we may never see happen. But it takes all of us at the table to have these conversations. So hats off to you.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:51]:

I appreciate you say saying that, and and it's definitely been a labor of love for Brian and I. But, definitely, as You step into this role, and now that you're in this role, and as you look at the organization and you have a vision in your mind Where you are hoping to lead the organization and work with the board of fathering together to lead it forward. What is your vision. Where are you leading the organization, and what are you hoping that fathering together can do In the future

Cordan James [00:18:20]:

It's about equality, I think, at this point. We are at the table with mothers and fathers, speaking about our rights, Speaking about the roles that we have in the home, I would love to continue to see fathers understanding their roles alongside their partners, Alongside their children, again, it's the intentionality of being a father that I most enjoy with this this vision of fatherhood is fathers who are intentional in what they're doing, fathers who are supported. Also, this vision of being able to break that stigma around fatherhood that we aren't just breadwinners. I love that you guys are are so extravagant on that point, That we are more than breadwinners, that we are more than our suits and ties, that we are more than our careers. I think it's important that fathers know that they're enough, That they have all that they need, and I think a support system to change excuse me. A support system to support these new changes It's just the pinnacle of what fatherhood needs.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:13]:

Definitely have a ways to go. There's not a right answer here, but it's definitely 1 step at a time and we move forward Just as that in regard to the fact that, you know, we have to we have to do the good work. We have to Build those relationships, build the connections, and be able to move the organization forward. And I appreciate that you were willing to step forward to lead the organization into the next phase of its existence. It's important for an organization like this to have different thoughts, different ideas, different Perspectives that can be shared by so many, and we work very hard to have a very diverse board that that we can utilize to be able to help us do that too, and I know that you're gonna be able to help us in so many different ways. Now we always finish our interview with what I like to call our fatherhood five, where we ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Cordan James [00:20:07]:

Yes, sir.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:08]:

In one word, what is fatherhood?

Cordan James [00:20:10]:

The first word that came to mind was leadership. I feel that on a daily basis, whether it's starting the day getting her off Or just when she's asleep at night, knowing that she's feeling loved and safe and that she's had a good day, that she's educated, And she has a beautiful relationship with her mother, and we have a beautiful co parenting relationship. Yeah. I think on a daily basis, I feel The sense of accomplishment in raising her.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:37]:

If I was to talk to your daughter, how would she describe you as a dad?

Cordan James [00:20:41]:

I would think she would say her dad is a goofball. I don't think she takes me too serious these days. I think she would say that she knows that she's loved, Does she know she can always come to her father?

Christopher Lewis [00:20:53]:

Fires you to be a better dad.

Cordan James [00:20:55]:

You know what? I have again, I have to bring this back to fathering together. It's the fathers in fathering together. When I log in Every day, several times a day, and I see the 127,000 dads we have in Dads with Daughters, and I read through the you know, I approve the post. I think it's great that we get approved the post because I get to see them first, so that's always a gift. Once it's approved, you know that there's gonna be a unanimous amount of support. There's gonna be different opinions, but that is always gonna be respectful. And I think I look forward to to seeing more fathers, to hearing their stories As those challenge me to be a a more calmer father, to be a more intentional father, they challenge me to be more present, and that's all I can ask for.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:34]:

Given a lot of piece of advice today. As we finish up today, what's 1 piece of advice that you'd want to give to every dad?

Cordan James [00:21:41]:

One piece of advice I would Give to every dad would be to take care of yourself. Look out for you look out for yourself. I think I think we have to get back to having a healthy outlet. You know, I think oftentimes we're on this go you know, I always think about how I'm always on as a father. I'm always tuned in to my kids. I'm always working for my kids. I'm finding new ways to support my partner in raising our children or duties around the home, And I think a lot of dads that I see need a moment to take care of themselves, whether it's, you know, a good gym routine, their spirituality, Being able to talk to a therapist, being able to have a good friend around to listen to you, to call upon, to rescue you at times as a man, Take care of yourself.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:27]:

Oh, Cordan, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your journey with your daughter, but also Thank you for stepping up and being willing to step into the executive director role for Fathering Together. We're really excited To have you on board, to have you a part of fathering together, and to lead the organization forward, and I wish you all the best.

Cordan James [00:22:49]:

Excellent. Thank you so much. It's been an honor to be here. It's an honor to lead forward fathering together, and I look forward to what we continue to do more of.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:57]:

The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best Dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, Step by step road maps and more. You will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out atfatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:40]:

We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters And be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy Add in presents and bring your a game because those kids are growing fast. The time Buzz by just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen, Be the best dad you can be. Be the best

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In this episode of the "Dads with Daughters" podcast, host Christopher Lewis welcomes author and parenting expert Michelle Icard. The podcast aims to provide resources and support to help fathers be the best they can be in raising strong, independent daughters.

Christopher introduces Michelle Icard, highlighting her extensive experience as a writer and her focus on parenting topics. Michelle is the author of several books, including "14 Talks by Age 14," "Middle School Makeover," and her newest book, "Eight Setbacks that can make a child a Success." She's also a parent herself, with two young adult children.

Michelle shares her journey into writing and parenting support. She mentions that her initial foray into writing was sparked by a teacher who recognized her writing skills when she was a 9th grader. This experience helped her identify herself as a writer, even though it wasn't her primary focus at the time. She later developed a social leadership curriculum for middle schoolers, which became the basis for her first book.

The conversation transitions into discussing Michelle's focus on middle school children and the challenges they face during that developmental stage. She explains that middle school is a critical time when kids are building their adult brains, bodies, and identities, which can lead to both internal and external struggles. She emphasizes the importance of understanding this transformative process.

The podcast delves into Michelle's book "14 Talks by Age 14," where she provides practical guidance for parents on how to approach essential conversations with their children, from topics like sex and sexuality to friendship and risk-taking. The book includes conversation scripts, conversation starters, and tips for initiating discussions with children who might not always be receptive.

The conversation evolves to discuss Michelle's latest book, "Eight Setbacks that can make a child a Success." Michelle explains that she identified eight archetypal setbacks that children commonly face during their development. These setbacks include the rebel, the daredevil, the misfit, the ego, the loner, the sensitive one, the black sheep, and the benchwarmer. She emphasizes that children may move through different archetypes at various stages of their lives. Michelle's three-step approach to handling setbacks—contain, resolve, and evolve—is discussed in detail.

The podcast highlights that the book is not just for parents of middle schoolers; it's relevant for parents with children aged 8 to 18. Christopher emphasizes the longevity of the lessons Michelle provides, which continue to be applicable as children grow into young adults.

Michelle expresses her desire for parents to feel relief after reading her book. She wants parents to understand that the challenges their children face are part of the normal developmental process. She emphasizes that mistakes and setbacks are opportunities for growth and learning.

Christopher encourages listeners to connect with Michelle through her website, michelleicard.com, and her Instagram profile. He also mentions her Facebook group, "Less Stressed Middle School Parents," which is relevant for parents of middle school and high school children.

The episode concludes with a message of encouragement for parents to embrace the challenges and setbacks their children face, recognizing that these experiences contribute to their growth into capable, confident adults.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads resources and more to help you be the best dad you can be. Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week you and I are on a journey together and it's a great opportunity for us to be able to talk one on one about the journey that you're on and raising your daughters, it's not always going to be easy. It's not always going to be a simple journey. There's going to be bumps in the road, but that's why we're here. We're here to walk alongside you as you go through this and hopefully give you some tips, some hints, some resources, some things that you can draw on, some tools for that toolbox that you carry with you that will help you in that journey that you're on.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:03]:

Every week I bring you different guests, different people from different walks of life, dads, moms, other resources that will help you to be able to do just that. And that's what this show is all about. This show is all about helping you to walk this journey. And I am so happy that every week I get to have that opportunity with you. This week, we've got another great guest with us today. Michelle Eichert is with us today. And Michelle has written for the Today Show Parenting Team, NBC News, Learn, CNN Science and Wellness and The Washington Post. She's the author of a few different books, one called 14 Talks by Age 14 and Middle School Makeover.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:46]:

And we're also going to be talking about a brand new book that she has written called Eight Setbacks that can make a child a Success. And I'm really excited to be able to talk to her because she is a parent herself. She has two young adult children, and also all these topics are definitely relevant to the journey that thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to chat our parenting experience. So Michelle, thanks so much for being here today. I'm really excited to be able to have you on and to talk about not only the new book, but some of these other books too, because I think all of these topics are ones that we probably could have multiple podcast episodes on because they're definitely issues and things that we deal with as parents. I guess first and foremost, I'd love to go back. I said that you have a brand new book that you have called Eight Setbacks that can make a child a success.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:48]:

But before we jump into that, you've had three different books that you have written and I would love to kind of go back in time because all of these are talking about kids, they're talking about parents, they're talking about working with kids. Talk to me a little bit about your background that led you to wanting to be a writer. Because I've written books, I know how much time and effort it takes, and it is definitely a passion project to get these things done. So talk to me about the journey and what made you decide you wanted to be an author. T

Michelle Icard [00:03:55]:

The first book came out in 2015. Prior to that book, I had been working in this field with young adolescents and their parents and their schools because I had developed a curriculum, which I called a social leadership curriculum, and it was for middle schoolers, and it started in 2004. So my kids were two and four at the time. My kids are now 21 and 23, so they have really grown up through all of this and have been wonderful guinea pigs for me personally and professionally to help me figure things out. But I started not thinking that I would write a book. I always knew that I loved writing. And I will say that there was a moment in my life when I was a 9th grader and I felt like most 9th graders probably do, which is I had a big question mark as to who I was. And I didn't really know who to be friends with or how I wanted to present myself or what I thought about things. I was really floundering. And we were given an assignment in 9th grade English to write a short biography, a two page story from our life, and I did it. And I was a nervous kid. I was a very anxious, nervous kid, as probably many writers were.

Michelle Icard [00:04:33]:

And so I handed in my paper, and it came back with all these red marks on it. And I panicked because this happened to be a teacher at our school who was known for being very loud and very aggressive, and he might throw a book across the room. The teachers could do that kind of thing. And so I saw the red marks, and I thought, oh, please let me just be swallowed up by the earth. I can't take it. And at the top of the paper, he had written a minus you are a writer, period. And everything changed for me in that moment. I thought, oh, my gosh, this is who I am.

Michelle Icard [00:05:08]:

Thank goodness someone told me who I am, because often we're afraid of giving kids labels, but I tell you, sometimes it's wonderful to be told. I think you're a blank. I think you're a diplomat, I think you're a writer, I think you're a musician, I think you're an artist, I think you're an attorney. I think whatever. That felt so good for me. But in any event, I tucked that away as just sort of a pleasure practice. I liked to write kind of for fun. I did this curriculum, so it was more businessy writing than anything, and then I was giving a lot of talks about the program and the effect it was having on kids.

Michelle Icard [00:05:45]:

And parents were saying, we love that you have this for our kids, but what do you have for us? We need something. So the first book was really born out of that request, and that was middle school. Makeover that's a primer for parents, just sort of how to get through middle school easier. And from there, things kind of started to snowball. Talk to me about middle school because I've talked to teachers before about being a middle school teacher. Middle school age is an interesting age. It's definitely a can be a challenging age for parents. It can be challenging age for teachers as well as kids.

Christopher Lewis [00:06:18]:

And as you said, you started to do your curriculum and your writing when your kids were very young, but you were focusing on the middle school age. What was it about the middle school age that really drew you in and kept you in that space as you wanted to not only help the kids, but help then parents of that age of child?

Michelle Icard

I have always loved coming of age as a concept. I love it in pop culture, I love it in movies, I love Ya books. I've always been fascinated by that. What happened that sort of spawned this curriculum. As I was out to lunch with some girlfriends and we were all talking about how hard middle school was for us, and each of us had a successful private business that we were running, and we were happy and we were in great relationships, but we said you couldn't pay us to go back to middle school. It was so hard. And I thought, that's unfortunate, and I want to learn more about why that is.

Michelle Icard [00:07:17]:

So I'm very curious, and I just did a deep dive into what makes coming of age and early adolescence so hard when it looks so fun on TV and in books, such a pleasure to consume at this age, but was so miserable to go through at that age. So I just am fascinated by what I call the middle school construction project. So it's a time when a kid is building the three things they need to become an adult an adult brain, an adult body, and an adult identity. And that is what drives most of my work. That's really interesting. I've had middle schoolers. Mine are now either in high school or college. Yours are past this age, too, but parents aren't always told that.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:06]:

And that is something that once you say it, I can't unhear it. But it is definitely something that I think that parents do need to hear. And I'm sure that in that first book that you wrote, you delved deeper into that to be able to help parents to kind of flip that switch for themselves, to reconceptualize those middle school years.

Michelle Icard

Yeah, there's something beautiful about the chaos, I think. So you have these early years of adolescence where your body is going through tremendous change, where your brain is restructuring and rewiring in preparation to become an adult brain, and where you are trying to figure out your own sense of self and your own sense of identity. And what that means is really figuring out who you are apart from your parents. So to a parent, that can look contrarian or rebellious or rude or disrespectful, but to a kid it's a really important and clunky clumsy practice of trying to say who am I by myself. Because really what kids need to do is become independent.

Michelle Icard [00:09:15]:

That's our hope for them. And yet we're also incredibly uncomfortable with the how of that process because it just doesn't feel good when a kid doesn't do it gracefully. And they mostly don't do it gracefully because they're very new to it. How could they do it gracefully for the first time? So they're going to be rude and they're going to be forgetful and they're going to be self centered. And that's all just critical to figuring out who they are separate from the people who raised them. They come back around, though. That's the nice part. They do come back around.

Christopher Lewis [00:09:48]:

Now, you started with that first book. You moved into the 14 Talks by age 14. And I guess let's talk a little bit about that book because you moved from helping parents to better understand those years to then something a bit, I'm going to say, very tangible in regard to specific things that you should be talking to your kids about. And I know that not everyone has read this book. Can you talk to me about what led you to this and how you identified those 14 Talks? Was it because of the conversations you had with your own kids or was it something different?

Michelle Icard

The 14 Talks came out of a desire to help parents with what I think is one of the hardest parts of parenting. They were saying to me over and over again, yeah, I get it. I get that I'm supposed to talk to my kid about X, Y or Z, but tell me the words. I don't know what to say.

Michelle Icard [00:10:42]:

And also my kid won't listen. So I don't know how to get my kid to pause and listen to what I'm saying about sex and sexuality or friends and when friendships don't go the way they're planned or risk taking or any of that stuff. So I wanted it to be super practical in the sense that there are scripts in the book and you can read them and at least be inspired by them and then make them your own. But it gets you over that sort of stage fright of how do I begin? It also contains things I call conversation Crashers and Conversation starters. So things that if you take this approach, your kid's going to roll their eyes and walk out of the room. So don't. And other ways that you can successfully begin a conversation with a kid when they're at an age when they're pulling apart and they don't really want to listen. So that's sort of the crux of the book.

Michelle Icard [00:11:31]:

And the way I came up with the 14 is I have a parenting group on Facebook and there are 12,000 members. They're from all over the country. It's a private group, but anyone can join. It's called less stressed middle school parents. If anyone listening, wants to pop over there, come hang out with us. I'm working really hard to make it a very supportive corner of Facebook. I asked them, what are the things that, you know, you need to talk about but are struggling with with your child? Created a massive list, rented an airbnb, put each thing on an index card, and covered the floor of the airbnb and walked around like I was solving a crime, actually, until I saw trends where things should be clunked together. And that's how I did it.

Christopher Lewis [00:12:12]:

So very practical. I love the fact that you used your group as your sounding board, and I can just see you in my mind's eye walking around that airbnb trying to find and being like, AHA, I found it. Exactly. I can link Deodorant with whatever over here, and we can make it work. I know we can get that into one conversation. Yeah. So you left that book and you now have a brand new book called Aid Setbacks that can make a child a success. And I think one of the things that I think is challenging also in these years is the fact that, like you said, little things can become very big things very quickly, and something that for us would be like, not a big deal is a huge deal for kids during these years.

Christopher Lewis [00:13:10]:

Whether it's friendships, whether it's a grade, whether it's somebody just says something the wrong way and it's internalized. They can really derail not only a day, but a month, a year. It can really lead kids down that rabbit hole very quickly. And as parents, I know I've had those situations where you're trying to reel them back out and when they've hunkered down and shut that door, sometimes it's very difficult. However, you do need to still be able to provide them with the skills to build that armor for themselves in many ways to help them to be resilient for the future. So talk to me about what led you into this now next book that has built on the work that you've done previously and how it's different from the first two books.

Michelle Icard

So this has really been an evolution with these three books, from very foundational, practical information you need to understand what your kid is going through to very practical, communication based writing on how to talk to your kid about these very tricky topics that they will encounter to a broader, almost more academic look. At? What does it mean to come of age back to that concept that I love so much? And how do you usher your child across the threshold from being a kid to becoming a responsible, happy, young adult? And I think many of us culturally, societally, are just getting it wrong.

Michelle Icard [00:14:53]:

And it's because we don't have a manual or directions that say, this is the way kids become adults. And we so often just think, I guess they pass their classes or they get a driver's license or a job, and that makes them an adult. And those are all good things that we want for our kids, but they are not the recipe. And so this book is really introducing what I believe to be based on a ton of research that other people have done and that I've sort of aggregated what I believe to be the recipe for how kids become. Successful, happy, competent, confident adults and what we need to do to make that possible for them and not to stymie them in their challenges.

Christopher Lewis

I know that one of the things that you introduce in the book is your three step approach for any kind of failure. Can you talk to me about that and how you came up with that, but also maybe how you use that with your own kids and how you've seen it kind of play out in real life.

Michelle Icard [00:15:59]:

So, yeah, I'd love to talk about that. The three steps are contain, resolve, and evolve. And I came to this process after interviewing families all across the country about experiences of failure that their kids had gone through. So they ranged from sort of subtle, like my kid had a loss of confidence and that was scary to watch for a while to dramatic or shocking or dangerous. My kid ended up in the hospital because they drank too much alcohol, or my kid got suspended from school because they broke rules or these kinds of things. So a wide variety. I looked at all of those and then I thought about, well, how do each of these families get through it? I asked them things that worked for me, for people I know, and did more research, which I love to do. So I came up with this process that I think fits all of them. And the first step is contain.

Michelle Icard [00:16:50]:

And that means you've got to just sort of put a tourniquet on the problem. You've got to stop the bleeding. So if something is coming at your child that's problematic, maybe there's a bully in the school. Maybe your child is using technology in a way that's not appropriate. Then you may have to contain what's coming at them. Or if your child is making decisions that are dangerous for them, you may have to contain the child. And that means, look, you're going to stay home this weekend. We got to figure some things out because it feels like the world's getting a little too big and dangerous right now.

Michelle Icard [00:17:21]:

So that's the first step. A lot of times parents will go, good, I'm done, I've contained the problem. That's probably all I need to do. That's putting a band Aid on. But you really need to fix the wound underneath there. So that's the next step. And that's resolve. And in the book there's a big menu of items that parents can look at and talk with their kids about and then based on whatever challenge they're facing, they can pick one or two and that's taking action to fix the problem.

Michelle Icard [00:17:49]:

So that might mean that an apology is necessary. It might mean that the kid has a misunderstanding about how something works in the world and they need more education or they might need professional consult or they might need an opportunity to negotiate for something that they want. So there's a big list that they can choose from. This is important because taking action is what keeps kids from feeling helpless when they're experiencing a challenge. We don't want that. And the third step is evolve. And I think it's the most important. And that's where we put this in the rear view mirror and don't keep revisiting it so that this doesn't become the headline of a kid's childhood.

Michelle Icard [00:18:26]:

It just becomes something they experienced and learned from and then they can move on. So important because as I said earlier, I mean the fact that some of these things can become that headline and kids at this age, at least in my experience, will hyper focus. And like I said, sometimes the small things become so big that they don't know how to make them small again. And as parents, I know there's been many times where I've had to reframe and I've had to work with my own kids to be able to help them to, as you said, contain and then resolve and to evolve. I didn't have those words, but I was doing that in my own way.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:25]:

So it's interesting that you frame it in that way. Now, you can tell you've done a lot of research, you've talked to a lot of people that have led you to putting this together. And you talk about eight setbacks. Define a setback and what does that mean for the child and what does that mean for the parent?

Michelle Icard

So whatever you call these setbacks or failures or challenges, I tend to think of them as experiences with failure. So that word failure makes some people really uncomfortable, therefore didn't make it on the title because I didn't. And also I didn't want a kid to see the book in their parents possession and think, oh, you think I'm a failure? So I was cautious about leading with that. But throughout the book, I describe ways in which kids fail. And there are these eight archetypes that I came up with after interviewing all of these families and they are the rebel. So that's failure to follow the rules. The daredevil that's failure to take care of your body. The misfit is really the academic misfit.

Michelle Icard [00:20:18]:

So that's failure to perform in school the way that people expect you to. The ego is failure to show concern for others. The loner is failure to connect with your peers. The sensitive one is failure to handle your feelings. You're easily overwhelmed, maybe anxious. The black sheep is similar to the loner, but the black sheep fails to connect with their family so oftentimes the black sheep will have a robust peer group socially who they like and hang out with. But they feel like the odd person out among their family members and the loner feels like the odd one out among their peers. And often their parents will substitute in as their friends.

Michelle Icard [00:20:56]:

And then the final one is the benchwarmer. And they have a failure to believe in themselves. So they are like you guys play, I'll sit here and watch. I'm not really good at that. You guys are better at it than I am. So from all of those, you may recognize your kid as one of these sometimes and then they become another one a little bit later. I can tell you from my own youth, I was sometimes the bench warmer, I was sometimes the rebel and I was always the sensitive one. Really anxious little kid.

Michelle Icard [00:21:27]:

So kids will pass through these at different times. There'll be one and then there'll be another. They may be a couple at the same time, but this contain, evolve or resolve. Evolve is a way of keeping them from identifying as that forever and learning that they can be more than that and that you see them as more than that. It's interesting is that while this has been written for a middle school age child, the way that you define and that you're talking about these phases or these archetypes, I could say that I see it in high schoolers too. And I think that it seems like that even if your child is not in middle school, that the things that you're teaching here are things that will only continue as they continue through high school, maybe even into some years of college as they get older. Absolutely. And I'll tell you, I've done this work for 20 years and I've been in the middle school realm very squarely for almost all of it.

Michelle Icard [00:22:33]:

But this book is actually for parents of kids through high school. So your instincts are right and it is for parents, really of kids ages eight to 18. So that's my setback to overcome, I guess. People see me squarely as middle school because I've been doing it for so long, but now I'm really bringing in some high school topics. So you'll find some topics that are elementary age appropriate and some that are very high school and beyond, as you say. So you have built building blocks in regards to the books that you've been writing, you've been researching this for many years and working with parents for many years on all of these different topics. As you have been looking at all of these different aspects, you're at this point in your life with your own kids and in the research that you've done, what gaps still exist for you and what do you want to look at next? Well, this is real fantasy world stuff, but I am really interested in kind of a memoir. I know that that's a departure from everything I've done so far, but that 9th grade writer who had to write that family story, I think about that a lot.

Michelle Icard [00:23:46]:

And my mother passed away last year and my birth father passed away last year. I have a stepfather alive who I have considered my father for most of my life. And you go through these phases of parenting your younger kids and for a while then you're sort of parenting your parent, especially if there's an illness or they need more help from you. And all of that arc of parenting my own kids to parenting my parents, it's brought up a lot of stuff that I'm like, oh, this is kind of an interesting new way to explore concepts of parenting through personal stories and memoir. But that really is the stuff of fantasy at this point. That would be five or ten years off, I could imagine. But I do think it would be a really fun thing and creative thing to explore.

Christopher Lewis

So as people pick up this book in your mind, what is the one or two things that you're hoping that every person takes out of reading this?

Michelle Icard [00:24:56]:

I'm so happy you asked that because with all of my work and with this book especially, I want you to feel relief. I think you're going to feel relief. I think if you are worried because your child is one of those archetypes that I mentioned, and you're so scared that your kid is never going to have confidence and they're not going to make friends with people who treat them well. Or you're scared your kid's never going to care about somebody else. They're so selfish. Or they're never going to take care of themselves and they're going to get hurt. Whatever it may be, I want you. To pick up this book and start reading and take a deep breath and sigh a sigh of relief knowing that every single family is going through something similar to what you're going through. And we all have these same struggles and emotions, and if we can lift the veil on that sort of nervousness and embarrassment around the very normal, natural things that happen to kids when they're growing up, I think we will all be much happier and more comfortable and more satisfied as parents.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:48]:

I appreciate you saying that because I think that the word that you just used at the end, I think is important. Being satisfied as parents, because I think we walk through life as parents many times, and we do our best to raise good kids, kids that are making a difference in society, that are helping others. We try to give them the values that are important to our family and do all these other things. But then, I don't know that we always ask or think about are we satisfied with the work that we do and satisfied with how our kids are turning up? We definitely get worried about whether the kids are turning out the way that we hope that they are, but I don't know that we always think about that.

Michelle Icard

My plug is that if you're worried about raising good kids, I think good kids screw up a lot, and I think that makes them really great adults. I mean, I have an example in the book, and I'm not going to get into it right now, but a story about my coming of age and the decision I made that was disastrous, that taught me one of the biggest lessons of my life. That fills me still with regret and embarrassment. But I am so happy I screwed up in that way because I learned so much about myself.

Michelle Icard [00:27:16]:

If you are constantly living in the world of ease and perfection, you really don't grow and you don't learn about yourself. So unburden yourself of the worry that you're raising a good kid. If you see them screwing up, you're probably raising a great kid. They're probably learning a ton along the way. So I want to leave parents with that sense of and

Christopher Lewis

Michelle, if people want to find out more about you, about the book, about your community, where should they go?

Michelle Icard [00:27:56]:

I'd love for people to find me on Instagram. If you're on Instagram, it's just my full name, michelleicard. It's two L's, and it's spelled like Icard I-C-A-R-D. So I'm on Instagram. My Facebook group is less stressed middle school parents, but we have tons of high school parents there now, too. So you can find me there and then connect on my website, which is just my name, Michelleikerd.com. I will put a link in the notes today for these different sites. But then also we'll make sure that we have a link to the books so that you can check them out for yourself and find them, because I know they're all out there. And these books will definitely help you whether you have middle schoolers or not. In this new one, like Michelle just said, even if you have up through age 18, it's definitely going to be a book that you're going to want to check out. And even if you have little kids, prepare now because there's going to be times when you're going to need some resources at your fingertips.

Christopher Lewis [00:28:48]:

So, Michelle, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for your time today, for being here, for doing all of this. Work and making parenting easier because we all need it. And I truly appreciate that you have done it and I wish you all the best.

Michelle Icard

Thank you, Christopher, and thanks for this podcast.

Christopher Lewis

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out The Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And The Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on Fatherhood.

Christopher Lewis [00:29:28]:

Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step, roadmaps and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it [email protected]. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes. Today Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them present. Bring your A game because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men get out and be the one to now be the best die you can be. You're the best dad you can be.

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In this episode of "Dads with Daughters," host Christopher Lewis introduces the show's mission, which is to provide resources and support for fathers to become the best dads they can be, especially in raising strong, independent daughters. He emphasizes the importance of the journey fathers embark on in raising their daughters and acknowledges the ups and downs they may encounter. Christopher encourages fathers not to go through this journey alone and highlights the abundant resources and people available to help them improve their parenting skills.

Christopher then introduces the episode's guest, Elizabeth Usovicz, who is the past Rotary International director, the chair of the Girls Empowerment Global Task Force for Rotary, and a Rotary International Women of Action honoree. The main focus of this episode is Rotary International's Girls Empowerment Initiative, which has been ongoing for three years. Christopher explains his involvement as a Rotarian and the reason for discussing Rotary's initiative in the context of empowering girls.

Elizabeth provides an overview of Rotary International, its history, and its mission, which centers on humanitarian service both locally and globally. She emphasizes Rotary's role in creating positive change in communities and mentions that Rotary has over 1.4 million members worldwide.

The discussion shifts to the Girls Empowerment Initiative. Elizabeth explains how Rotary's then-President, Sheikh Meta, initiated this focus three years ago. The goal was to enhance girls' well-being, education, safety, and economic opportunities worldwide. The initiative's broad scope allows local Rotary clubs to adapt projects to address specific challenges faced by girls in their communities.

Elizabeth shares examples of successful projects, such as providing gender-specific latrines in schools to improve girls' access to education. Another project involves donating feminine hygiene products to local food banks to ensure girls have the necessary resources for their menstrual hygiene. These projects highlight how even small-scale efforts can have a significant impact.

Christopher and Elizabeth discuss the initiative's goals for the current year and its vision for the next five years. They emphasize the importance of expanding partnerships, fostering collaboration, and integrating girls' empowerment into Rotary's core activities.

Towards the end of the episode, Elizabeth provides recommendations for individuals who want to support girls' empowerment. She encourages people to connect with their local Rotary clubs, collaborate with schools, and become mentors or role models for girls. Elizabeth emphasizes the crucial role fathers play in shaping girls' perceptions of relationships and encourages them to be positive role models.

Christopher expresses his gratitude to Elizabeth for her dedication to empowering girls worldwide and highlights the impact of her work.

The episode concludes with Christopher reminding listeners to check out the Fatherhood Insider, an essential resource for dads seeking guidance on their parenting journey. He encourages fathers of daughters to join the Dads With Daughters Facebook community and looks forward to having more inspiring guests in the future. The episode ends with a call to action for fathers to be the best dads they can be.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight Dads resources and more to help you be the best dad you can be. Hey, everyone. This is Chris, and welcome to Dads with Daughters, where we bring you guests to help you be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. We're on a journey to raise our daughters and be able to raise them into the strong, independent women that we want them to be. I love being on this journey with you because for you and I, it is a journey.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:45]:

There's going to be ups. There's going to be downs. There's going to be things that happen that we're like, what the heck? And then there's going to be times where things are going really smooth, and this is a big but you don't have to do this alone. And that's the thing that I keep telling you every week, is that you don't have to father alone. And that's important because there are so many resources, but there's so many people around you that can help you to be a better father. And that's why every week, I love being able to have you listen in. And I bring you different guests that have different perspectives, different things that they offer to be able to help you be the best dad that you can be. Sometimes it's other fathers that are fathering in different ways.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:31]:

Sometimes it's other resources that are out there that are there for you to tap into to help you this week. We got another great guest with us this week. Elizabeth Yusuf is with us. And Elizabeth is the past Rotary International director, as well as the chair of the Girls empowerment global task force for Rotary and a Rotary International women of action honoree. Today we're going to be talking about Rotary International. If those of you don't know what Rotary is, we're going to talk about that, too. I will be very upfront and say I am a Rotarian, proud to be a Rotarian. Been a Rotarian for quite a few years, and I am currently the president of our local Rotary Club.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:16]:

And I love talking about Rotary. Haven't really talked to you about Rotary before, but the reason that we're talking about this and that we've got Elizabeth Usovicz on today is for the past three years, there has been an initiative within rotary to focus on girls. Empowerment. And that ties in very well to the work that you and I are doing every day. To be able to empower our own daughters and the girls around our daughters, and beyond that, to help them to be successful in life. I'm really excited to have Elizabeth here and to talk about this great initiative. Elizabeth, thanks so much for being here.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:02:57]:

Oh, it is my pleasure, Christopher, to be with you. Thank you for inviting me.

Christopher Lewis [00:03:01]:

It is my pleasure having you here. I guess, first and foremost, I said that I'm a Rotarian and I could talk about it, but I'm going to let you talk. Why don't we step back before we talk about this initiative? Talk to me about Rotary. What is Rotary? And then let's talk about why did Rotary start this initiative, this girls empowerment initiative, three years ago?

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:03:23]:

Well, I should start by thanking you for being president of your Rotary Club. That's a huge honor. And presidents are really the lifeblood of Rotary and Rotary clubs. But many people know about Rotary, perhaps from grandfathers or fathers who might have been members. And we've come a long way since that time. Rotary was founded in the early 20th century, and so we're over 100 years old, and Rotary is a member organization that is organized by clubs. And our primary mission is humanitarian service to other people in our communities and around the world. We are proactive people of action who create positive change in our communities and in the world.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:04:13]:

And in the process of doing that, we are also creating positive change in ourselves. We're over 1.4 million people around the world who are proudly members of Rotary, and we welcome everyone to join us. So if you don't know about Rotary, you can go to the Rotary website, you can locate a club in your community, and they will welcome you to attend a meeting to get to know them and maybe become a member if it lines up with what's important to you. We'd love to have you.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:48]:

So, three years ago, the then Rotary International President and I should step back and say that every year there is a Rotary International President, that Rotary International President sets goals for themselves. And three years ago, one of the Rotary International President's goals was to focus on girls empowerment. Now, that's a broad topic. Can you talk to me about why that was an important topic for that International President and what girls empowerment truly means in the global context of Rotary?

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:05:26]:

Well, it's a big topic. It's a broad topic. And, yes, I'll start by saying that the President of Rotary is a member, a volunteer, an unpaid member of Rotary who is nominated to serve in that one year term. And it's very typical for a President to have specific initiatives for one year that are close to their hearts. Three years ago, actually, now almost well, it was in 2020 when we started. He was president elect. Sheikh Meta from India, met with some of his incoming board members and said, I really want to focus on girls empowerment in the coming year, and I'd like to put together a task force, and I'd like you to serve on it. And he did appoint me chair.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:06:22]:

And at that time, Rotary had done any number of projects around the world. We do literally in the Tens of thousands of projects globally every year. And many of those projects had a component that served to provide resources to girls. But we didn't really focus on it. And he felt very strongly that focusing on girls'empowerment, particularly in terms of education, in terms of health, was a very important priority for him. And it did start, as you've mentioned Christopher, as a very broad agenda. His objective was simply to have Rotary clubs and Rotary members around the world to engage in projects that enhanced the health, education, safety, well being and economic opportunities for girls. So it was wide open.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:07:14]:

And because Rotary operates differently in different parts of the world, some of the issues that girls face, let's say in India or in parts of Africa, are very different from what they experience in Australia or in northern Canada, or in the United States. And so it was very broad so that it could be adapted locally. It was very popular, extremely popular. Rotary members around the world embraced this initiative like nothing I have ever seen before, to the point where it was so popular that last year's president, our first woman president, Jennifer Jones, decided to continue it. I'm not 100% sure of this, but based on the research I've done, this has never happened before in Rotary history. That a presidential initiative from one year carried over into another. And now we are in an unprecedented third year of carryover because the engagement has been so high, it has been so rewarding for Rotary members and their partners, non Rotarians and other not for profit organizations, that it will continue into a fourth year next year. So this has grown in a way very organically because people have seen a need, they have met a need.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:08:40]:

The need has been appreciated in those local communities. It has continued and will continue into a fourth year and beyond as it becomes part of the fabric of what Rotary does around the world.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:53]:

So you mentioned that many Rotary clubs have taken up the mantle of this goal and have implemented programs, implemented initiatives. Can you give me some examples of some successful initiatives that have been implemented by Rotary clubs that truly hit this initiative at the heart of the goal itself?

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:09:20]:

Yes, absolutely. And as I mentioned, the initiative and the projects that clubs choose to take on vary depending on the part of the world. But I'll give you a great example from India. It's also a type of project that 20 years ago I was part of initiating in Malawi, Africa. So the need is continuing. One of those is that in many parts of the world, simple things like sanitation, segregated bathrooms in schools for children are simply not available. And simply on the basis of not being able to have a safe and sanitary place as a restroom for girls can prevent many of them from going to school. And so many of the projects that we have seen over the past three years have been focused on water and sanitation in schools and creating those gender specific latrines or bathroom spaces so that girls have the privacy that they need and can inspect spend a day in school.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:10:32]:

It's hard to believe that something as simple, a basic need, as simple as a bathroom can be pivotal to education. But in many parts of the world it is, and that has had a huge impact on keeping girls in school at a critical time. I'll give you another example of a very simple project, because sometimes what I have heard from clubs in North America sometimes is, well, we don't really have any issues that we can address in our communities. But if you drive by any high school in any community in the United States, about 25% of the girls in that school are missing two to three days of school every month because they do not have access to the products they need to manage their own feminine hygiene. And if you look at those communities, every one of those communities has a local food bank. And I've talked to many executive directors of food banks, community food banks, and the one thing that they have all told me is they never receive enough feminine hygiene products as part of the donations that Rotary clubs and other organizations may provide to them. And when they do get those products, they can't keep them on the shelves. There simply is not enough for demand.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:11:58]:

So what I have seen in many clubs is very simply adding those feminine hygiene products to the donations that they would make on a regular basis anyway to a local food bank. So a project doesn't have to be enormous to have an enormous impact. And there are just so many challenges that relate or keep girls out of school that addressing those issues can make a huge difference, because really, education is the key. Education and also aspiration in what to study, is also key for girls to become empowered women and to really be well represented across trades, skills, and professions.

Christopher Lewis [00:12:46]:

So being the chair of this global task force, you have people from around the world that are all coming together. You're talking about a vision for this group as a whole as you look to the future through this year with this international president and beyond. What are your main goals as a task force for this year and what are your goals as you look at the next, let's say five years?

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:13:15]:

Wow, that's an excellent question. And for something that has grown as spontaneously and organically as this initiative has grown, that is a challenging question to answer. In terms of the task force. First we looked at the data from rotary partner organizations like the World Bank, UNICEF and the Gates Foundation, among others, and so that we were really well informed on what the issues were and then ensured that that awareness of those issues was part of the resources that clubs were able to access as they decided which projects might be appropriate for their part of the world. But having said that, one of the things that the task force did is we created a network of people, Rotary volunteers that we call ambassadors. And I would estimate that there are over 200 ambassadors or assistant ambassadors in parts of the world who are there to create momentum, create that awareness, and build interest in doing projects that are focused on girls empowerment and also providing them with the resources that they need. And so that building that network and keeping that network expanding has been a primary goal of the task force in terms of where do we go from here? Partnerships are very definitely the place that we go from here. We've seen trending over the past year a number of clubs and other larger Rotary organizations called a district, a collection of clubs, a geographic collection of clubs who are partnering now both with each other, with other clubs.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:15:08]:

So multi club projects, we're also seeing those clubs partner with organizations that have specific expertise in dealing with those issues that girls face. Rotary has tremendous hands, hearts, and minds. We are the feet on the ground. And when we partner with those organizations with specific expertise, the impact is incredible. So we hope to continue that. As I said earlier, it's unprecedented to have what was structured as a one year presidential initiative now continue into a third year and into a fourth year. So the task force objective at this point is to examine and explore all the ways that we can integrate this girls empowerment beyond an initiative, but into the fabric of what Rotary does.

Christopher Lewis [00:16:04]:

We've been talking a lot about Rotary specifically, and not every listener is a rotarian. Are there things that people can do to support not only the initiative, but also to support girls empowerment in general that you would recommend?

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:16:25]:

Yes, there are. And certainly, as I had mentioned when we began our conversation, that looking up where local clubs meet in your geographic area and connecting with them, whether you join or not, is one way to connect with a club and to initiate a project or join a project in your community that is focused on this important area. Other things that can be done are definitely connecting with the schools in your local communities. The guidance counselors, the principals, the headmasters, those are the people who can best inform on what the needs are within that education sphere. I think that also there's a great deal that we can do in terms of some of the issues that girls face by focusing on prevention as opposed to rehabilitation. And I'm thinking about human trafficking in particular, where there is a great deal that we can do within our own communities to make citizens aware of what some of those signs are that a girl might be at risk of trafficking and also educating girls on what those signs might be. Because if we can prevent, then obviously then we don't have to do as much in terms of rehabilitation. And so I think those are very important ways.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:18:03]:

I think it's also given your organization and given the audience for this podcast, that obviously being a great role model for girls and really being an ally to girls, whether they are girls within your own family, within your own neighborhood, elsewhere in your community, often that micro mentorship, that micro role model. Just that one phrase you might say to a girl who maybe has not had that kind of encouragement in their lives before can make a difference. And I know in Rotary we all have stories about how that has happened. I have numerous times over the course of my career and my service in Rotary heard later from a girl that just that one thing you said to me ten years ago that resonated with me and it gave me hope and it gave me a focus. And I think also anytime that we can introduce a girl to someone who could be a mentor, a role model, that kind of exposure that a girl may not get at home or may get at home, but could be supplemented, having as many good role models as possible is really important. And that's something that we can all do as individuals, is to just be on the lookout for that and to encourage and support girls in that way.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:38]:

Definitely agree with you. I think that there is so much that we can do in regards to providing mentorship, providing someone for girls to look up to, whether it's yourself, whether it's connecting girls in your community with others that can help them to get to where they want to be and let them see a path to the future. That's so important and definitely something I know that I've done with my own daughters, to try and help them and see opportunities that may exist, not to push them, but to guide them, to help them and to let them still make decisions that are right for them. And that's important. And I think it's a role of any father to be able to be that guide and to help their child and the children around them, to be able to find that path for themselves in that regard.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:20:39]:

And you know this much better than I as a father. But that role of being a father is so pivotal and so important to children just in general, but for girls as well, so much of their impressions and their perspectives on what to expect from men and in their relationships with men are largely founded on the example that their fathers provide. So it's incredibly important, what you have just said really resonates.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:11]:

Elizabeth, people want to find out more about this initiative. Where should they go?

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:21:16]:

That is a very good question. And right now, the location of this information on the Rotary website can be found most easily by Googling Rotary presidential initiatives. And on that page for this year, for example, our President Gordon Mcinelli, who is incredibly supportive of this initiative, lists all of his initiatives, including Girls Empowerment, and there are resources that are listed as well on that page. That is one of the places to go. In addition, on the Rotary International Facebook page, which includes a number of the important work and the service opportunities that Rotary offers, there is also information there about the Girls Empowerment initiative. But really, because this is such a localized implementation of this initiative, really the best place is to go to a local Rotary club in your community and to connect with the members who are working on this project in ways that are meaningful in your community.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:30]:

Elizabeth, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for all the work that you're doing to empower people in the world, not just girls, but empowering people in the world to empower the girls in their communities to be able to find success in all aspects of their life. It is such an important initiative and such an important thing. I say that as a father of two daughters, but I know that there are so many fathers out there that once they know about this, I think they'll be very happy to hear that there is this work that's happening. So thank you. Thank you for doing this, and I'll put some links in the Notes today for where people can find those initiatives, and I wish you all the best.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:23:14]:

Thank you so much. Christopher it's really been an honor to be able to talk about this, and I would just say that the work that we do, we all do it together, so it's always a we proposition. And as you said at the beginning of this conversation, you don't do parenting alone. You don't do fathering alone. None of this work is done alone, and I just feel so honored to be a part of it.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:38]:

The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And the Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step, roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it [email protected]. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the Notes today. Dads With Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week.

All geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be. We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny, screaming passengers. We spend the time we give, the lessons, we make the meals we buy them present and bring your A game because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite glass calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the one to now be the best dad you can be be the best dad you can be.

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In this episode of the "Dads with Daughters" podcast, host Christopher Lewis emphasizes the importance of fathers supporting and guiding their daughters to become strong, independent women. He shares his own journey as a father of two daughters and his motivation behind creating this podcast - to learn from others and help dads navigate the challenges of fatherhood together.

Christopher introduces his guest, Rodney White, a father of three from Kansas, including two daughters. Rodney discusses his initial apprehension when he found out he was going to be a father to a daughter, particularly due to his lack of experience raising girls. However, he highlights the value of adapting and learning from the journey.

One of Rodney's biggest fears in raising a daughter is helping her navigate the challenges of the middle school years, where girls often face insecurity and peer pressure. He emphasizes the importance of building his daughter's self-confidence and self-worth through individual activities that challenge her and allow her to develop resilience.

Christopher and Rodney discuss the balance between work and family life, with Rodney expressing his commitment to making time for his kids despite potential career sacrifices. He shares how he prioritizes spending quality time with his daughters, supporting their interests, and being present in their lives.

They delve into the challenges of letting children fail and learn from their mistakes, which can be difficult for parents who want to protect them. Rodney acknowledges that allowing his daughter to experience consequences is essential for her growth and development.

The conversation also explores what it means to be a "girl dad." Rodney reflects on how being a father to a daughter involves setting an example, providing support, and helping her navigate a world that can sometimes be challenging for girls.

Rodney emphasizes the parallels between parenting and sports, particularly the importance of instilling a strong work ethic and teaching children to handle success and failure gracefully. He believes that these lessons from sports can translate into valuable life skills.

The episode concludes with a discussion of the joy that comes from hearing positive feedback about your children's behavior and character from others, reinforcing the importance of raising good people in a sometimes challenging world.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads resources and more to help you be the best dad you can be. Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week, and as always, I love being on this journey with you. You know, I'm a father of two daughters and this podcast was created somewhat cathartically to be able to learn from all of you, but also to help you in this journey that you're on, because all of us are on an individual journey, but we don't have to be on this journey alone. We have so many other dads around us that have gone through this, that are going through this, and we can support each other and learn from each other. And that's what this podcast is all about. It's all about the fact that you don't have to do it alone.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:03]:

You don't have to go it alone. You can talk to people around you, but you can also listen to people and listen to their experiences, take things that work and incorporate them into your own lives. Every week I have a great opportunity to be able to sit down and talk to different guests, different dads that come from many different walks of life but are doing fatherhood in a little bit different way. And they are able to share with all of us the journey that they've been on, the things that have worked, maybe things that haven't worked, and help all of us to be able to do what we can do, to be able to be the best dads that we want to be and that we can be. This week, we've got another great guest with us. Rodney White is with us today and Rodney is from Kansas. He has three kids. He has two daughters and a son. And I'm really excited to be able to talk with him today, to have him here and to learn from his experiences. Rodney, thanks so much for being here today.

Rodney White

Yeah, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. It's my pleasure having you here today.

Christopher Lewis

I love being able to talk to different dads, and one of the first things I love doing when I have these conversations is to turn the clock back in time. And I'm going to turn it back a few years back to that first moment, that first moment when you found out that you were going to be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Rodney White [00:02:29]:

Well, to be quite honest with you, I'll never forget the day. And the reason why is because I was a father of a son first. And I say that because my son, which I love him to death, 15 years old at the time, was, I believe, three, maybe four at the time, and was a lot. Let's just say when my youngest daughter was born, she wasn't something that we had planned and so we were a little freaked out. The reason I say that is because my oldest daughter so I have three kids. My oldest daughter's 22. I adopted her when she was at the age of seven. So I never really had that first through seven years. And my son was a lot like I said, and he was a boy and he is a boy and he's just 100% boy and go, go.

Rodney White [00:03:03]:

And be honest with you, my wife and I were like, I don't know if we can do this. I don't know if we can survive a second one. Obviously being as young as we were and knowing what I know now, we were going to be okay. And we figured out but knowing that we were having a daughter, I didn't know what to think. And the reason I didn't know what to think is because the youngest of four boys, so I grew up with no sisters a mother, but my mother was more the father figure. She was the disciplinarian and all of that. So I was honestly I was freaked out because I didn't know what to do. And what I mean by that is hair right now she's twelve years old.

Rodney White [00:03:35]:

So I'm going through some changes there. All of those things were running through my head like I have no idea how to raise girl. And so yeah, freaked me out for a little bit and quickly just settled in and realized that it's a new opportunity and we were going to learn. So yeah, I mean, obviously excited but scared to death because I was the youngest of four boys and I had no idea what I was doing.

Christopher Lewis

Really understand that. I have heard that so many times from so many dads that you walk in and there's definitely some fear there. And I hear it a lot with the dads that I talk to that have daughters that there is some fear. What would you say has been your biggest fear in raising a daughter?

Rodney White

My biggest fear, to be quite honest with you, is now I really didn't have any fear with my youngest because it was so easy to be honest with you. And I say that not the girls are easy to raise, but I always say if we would have had her first, would have had 15 more. My biggest fear is probably right now she's going into the middle school world. And I have one that went to the high school world that didn't have the greatest experience in the world. And to be honest with you, just that world of insecurity that girls come into, not that guys don't and boys don't have it. That middle school world is just so brutal and I think it's so life changing. My biggest fear is navigating her through that to make sure she comes out with self confidence and makes the right decisions and all of those, but from zero to twelve, there was no fear. I mean, she's been awesome, but this has always been my fears getting to this age. And we're here right now.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:01]:

Talk to me about that, because like you said, you want to build her self confidence, you want to safeguard her as she's going through that middle school process. What have you or are you doing to be able to not only prepare yourself, but helping your daughter to prepare for the reality that is middle school?

Rodney White

Yeah, so really the only thing that I can say, I mean, I had a really good friend of mine that was an MMA and boxing coach, and sports has always been a passion of mine. That's where my foundation raises. And I had my son in boxing and just training, nothing crazy, wasn't actually participating in fights, but what I noticed and what my friend told me was individual sports. And I say sports because that's where the world I live into. It could be anything individual. If it's learning an instrument, if it's doing something that's really hard by yourself that you have to get better at by doing it consistently raises self confidence. So I think that's what I've done is try from five years old on up, is try to build her self confidence, self worth, in something that going through hard things. We talk about that all the time. We can do hard things. And understanding that she is much more than what the world's getting ready to tell her that she is. So we just try to do single activities. If it was gymnastics, if it's singing, she's done musical things like that. Just try to do things to really build her up and let her know that she can do anything. And that sounds so cliche. You can do anything you want.

Rodney White [00:06:21]:

You really can. But I wanted her to be able to do that outside of a screen, outside of a phone, outside of an iPad, and something that she had to fail at. Because I don't think as parents, we let our kids fail enough and then let her build her up and give her support and let her see that, man, that was hard. But look how much better I am now, because I think that's the confidence builder. Going into middle school, when you feel like you know yourself and you know that you're struggling in math and somebody says something or whatever the case may be, you already know that work side. So we just try to create work ethic, I think, and just some of that inner strength, it definitely does. And I think that you definitely have to do that and you have to adjust along the way as you see how your child is thriving or is struggling, and you adjust as they go through the experience. And you have to just have open dialogues about what's going on.

Rodney White [00:07:13]:

Sometimes that's easier said than done, especially as they get into those teenage years and would rather be in their rooms than sometimes talking to mom and dad. But that being said, if you have created the environment for a child to know that you're there, to know that you're willing to help and be there, you know that they're going to come to you if and when they need that as well. And that's one of the cool things I like. Again, I'll go to the sports side because that's the world we live in. But we did it last night. We went to pitching lessons and it wasn't about the pitching lesson. I actually told this to my wife. It's not about the pitching lesson. It's not about going and getting better at the sport, which we tried to do, and we put it with the right people. But I had a 35 minutes car ride with my twelve year old on the way there and I had a 35 minutes car ride after endorphins were already flowing, so she was more talkative on the way home. We got an hour and ten minutes to sing Taylor Swift or Me Poke fun at Taylor Swift or have fun or hear about her school day and all of those things. And she couldn't open up a package of fruit snacks at lunch and she told me all about that. So that to mean that was worth every bit of it. So just trying to do that, I get that time, and I think that's so important. I know that you are a busy guy. You work full time and you're raising two kids still in the house.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:31]:

Talk to me about balance and how you balance what you're doing on a daily basis and how you're balancing that with being engaged with your kids.

Rodney White

Yeah, it's really hard. I don't know that I do a really good job at it, to be honest with you. One of the struggles that I have is not going all in. And I say that because when we go, I always tell them, I don't care what you do, we're going to go do it. Well, I told you my son Box, my oldest daughter, she played basketball for a little bit and then my youngest daughter played softball and then she did musicals. So whatever we're going to do, we're going to do it at 100%. I'm going to go find you the best people and we're going to put you around it. We're going to go try to be really good at it. The hardest part for me is making sure that I've still got time at home. For my wife, I struggle really bad with that because she doesn't have the same mindset as me. She is at home, and when I say same mindset, she's not as obsessed with the sports world as I am and that's okay. And she does a good job of supporting me. But I say that because being able to manage it, I have taken less jobs or less money to make sure that I'm around my kids that I can get off at 430. I could probably double my salary right now tomorrow if I wanted to go and work all the time. And I refuse to do it.

Rodney White [00:09:41]:

So I just make it a priority. I think that's probably the biggest thing I can tell you is I make sure that they get my full attention. If it's something at 06:00, I'm going to make sure that I'm done at 05:00 so I can get home and get them taken care of and things like that. So I guess the answer to the question is I make it a priority to make sure that they're getting the time that I think that they should get. But it's hard, man. Sometimes I go into work early, not often, but to be able to get out of work early. Or it's one of those deals that you just have to let you use the word adjust. You have to be able to adjust and sacrifice.

Rodney White [00:10:15]:

And one of the things I've never allowed myself to do was sacrifice my kids time. I only get it one time. So I'm going to make their games, I'm going to make their practices. I'm going to make whatever it is and whatever it takes. And that's important because putting yourself out there, being present, being willing to be interested not only in the things that you are interested in, but the things that they are interested in, is so critical because you're going to be able to create even stronger bonds with your children when you do that. The other part of that is making I try to really make sure that while we do all of that stuff, that I want them to be a kid too, right? So we make sure that they go to birthday parties. We make sure that they are outside and they're spending time with their friends and things like that. Because I think some people can get caught up and I do too sometimes. And you get caught up in just trying to do all the right things. But sometimes they got to be a kid too, so they got to be able to do a little bit of both.

Christopher Lewis

So important as well. And I was just going to say, let's be honest, not everything that our kids love doing are things that we're going to like doing. But that doesn't mean that you don't still take the time to learn more about it and to understand why they like it. Because that's going to show them that you're invested, you're interested, and that you're willing to do it. They'll know if you like it or not. They're going to know whether or not you are passionate about playing Barbies or not, but just being there and knowing that Dad's willing to do that is just part of the things that are going to make or break that relationship.

Rodney White [00:11:59]:

I said it earlier and she's actually going tonight for a tryout for the musical at our local high. And she's been in three. It is not my world, it's mom's world. I don't mind it though. I actually learned to enjoy it and I think that's really what it is and I believe this with my whole heart. While sports is something that I love, and I'm super glad that my daughter got into softball and I can teach it. It's a world that I played baseball growing up and yeah, it fits. My oldest daughter didn't, she played basketball, she didn't love it. I recognized it, gave her the opportunity and was like, hey, you don't have to do this her sophomore year in high school. But my daughter's going to the musical and we're going to make sure that same thing, right? Just because it's not softball, it doesn't change that, hey, I'm going to make sure that I'm off early. I'm going to make sure that she's got a presentation on Friday at 05:00. That's what we're going to be there and we're going to be there in the front row and all those things. So yeah, it's crucially important. We talk a lot about, especially with sports. And I tell all my girls I coach as well, so I help coach my daughter's team. So I'm around a lot of 1112 13 year old girls and we talk to them a ton about this is what you do, this is not who you are.

Rodney White [00:12:58]:

And we really make that because I think a lot of times they can forget that the success or the lack of success is where my love lies. And that's not it at all. And I try to focus on that. She's twelve, so she has a phone and you talk about again, we go back to the word adjust. We text a lot because that's her communication, right? That's the way she likes to communicate. And we talk, we have great conversations. But I really make sure that I text her probably once a week. Something in the realm of sports is not who you are, it's what you do. It's a thing that you do. I'm proud of you for X, I'm proud of you for whatever. So she can read that now. She may not respond because she's twelve years old or I may get a K or that was weird, dad or whatever, but making sure that they understand that just because of what we do, no matter what it is, that doesn't define who we are as a person. And I think that's important too. Very true and very important as well.

Christopher Lewis

I think that one of the things that I would put out there is just the fact that there are going to be high times there's going to be low times in parenting, in parenting, any type of child, whether it's a daughter, a son, multiple kids, it's not going to be all roses. As you look at the time that you've had with your daughters, what would you say has been the hardest part of being a father to a daughter?

Rodney White [00:14:14]:

Patience. Letting them fail. I had this conversation, actually, today knowing, I think as us, as parents, at least, I feel like I can see the future. Right? And we all can see the future. We understand if you're walking down this road with the people that you're hanging out with or the certain things that you're doing, we know the consequences. They don't. Right? I have to remember that this is their first time being twelve, and it's not my first time being twelve. So I can see the future, and I'm an adult, so obviously, within reason, letting them fail. And sometimes my words don't mean anything until they actually see the consequence of whatever that consequence is.

Rodney White [00:14:47]:

And I think that's probably the hardest thing. And to be honest, I think that's one of the things that our world doesn't do a good job of is letting our children fail in a constructive way. My children, I say this, they have no adversity. They have no true adversity in life. So we try to create some artificial adversity. Right? That's what I do with sports. It gets hard, you're running or whatever, because I want them to fail. I want them to see that if I don't put the work in, then I'm not going to get X.

Rodney White [00:15:10]:

And actually, I want you to see that even if you do put the work in, sometimes you don't get X, because I think that's probably been the hardest part, is letting them fail and not jumping in and knowing the answers to the test and letting them put them on paper themselves. And sometimes you get a B, right? Sometimes you get a C. And I think it's so hard, and I see so many other people do the same thing, and I get it. I understand because we love them and we don't want to see know we know the answers to the test, but yeah, you gotta let them fail. And I'm not the greatest at it, but I work on it for sure.

Christopher Lewis

I know that you and I initially got connected through a tweet that you put out there that used the hashtag girl dad. And most of us all know that that goes back to Kobe Bryant and his daughter. And it's kind of kept going since then for you. What does being a girl dad mean to you?

Rodney White [00:15:53]:

So I'll start that off by today's Kobe Bryant's birthday. So being a girl dad means man, god. What does that mean? It's so much because I'll start off by again. I was the youngest of four boys, so I grew up never really understanding that girls had it different. Maybe I did understand it, but not truly. Not until I saw my daughters going through it when it comes from anything from sexuality and how men and boys think about females to the lack of support that their sports get or something of that nature. So being a girl dad, you go to Kobe, because Kobe is actually a pretty big influence on mine, like just supporting the hell out of my daughter. I think that's what it means, right? And understanding that the very first line of defense is me.

Rodney White [00:16:42]:

And the very first person to love them, first male that's going to love them is me. So it's my job to show them what it's supposed to be like, what to expect, because the world doesn't do a really good job of that. It's my job to be respectful. It's my job to discipline. It's my job to raise them in a way that they feel adequate in this world. I guess it kind of sounds bad, but they get the short end of the stick and they really do. And I didn't know that until I had a daughter. And I feel like it's my job to build them from the ground up for a world that doesn't support them as much as they really should.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:17]:

It does. And I think that I asked this question because of the fact that I think that every dad sees that moniker as something different. And I think that it's important to understand that that the way that each of us internalizes what being a dad to a daughter means is going to be different. And that's okay. And that we do need to have a definition for ourselves. For some fathers, they may see being a father to a daughter as no different than being a father to a son. But then for others, there is a vast difference and that there is a different path that they walk. When it comes to raising a son or a daughter, I don't know the difference because for me, I've only had daughters. But for those that do have sons and daughters, this may feel a little different for them as well. So I put that out there just so that for anyone that is thinking about this, looking at this, that you have to define it yourself. You can learn from others and you can see how others define it for themselves, but that doesn't mean that that's the way that you're going to define it as well. Now, you have been talking about the fact that sports is a big part of your life. It's a big part of the life of your kids as well. The tweet that I mentioned was a tweet of you and your daughter practicing ball and she was pitching to you and throwing the ball around to you. I know that baseball and softball now is something that has been a big part of your life. And with your youngest daughter, that is a part of her life. What are some of the parallels that you see between parenting and sports that allow for you to be able to incorporate those into the work that you're doing to be a better father.

Rodney White

There's a song out there that says she thinks we're just fishing, right? And what that means is that dad and daughter are out fishing, and he's spending time with her. She thinks they're out trying to catch fish. He's understanding the time is so valuable. I think, number one, that's it. It's time, just spending time, no matter what, together. But one of the biggest parallels that I try to transfer is just work ethic. I mean, just we have to go do things that are hard sometimes, and we have to go to get a goal. Passion, I think it translates into life in general. I'm a big believer in passion. I don't care what it is. I mean, you can turn your passion into a lot of different things, but this world will beat you down if you don't have something that you're passionate about. So I think it translates into that. I think I have to do a good job of taking the coach hat off when I go home to be a dad, but also make sure that it's a responsibility. Right. So that parallels we talk a little bit about that at home, too, of making sure that I don't carry her softball bag.

Rodney White [00:19:49]:

I don't make sure her well, sometimes this is a let them fail type deal. I try not to fill her water bottle up, but I'm not letting her walk out with that water. Right, but there's a lot of those things. But what I've seen, and I don't know if this is just the way that she was born, but she gets herself up for school. She makes her own lunch. She cares on what kind of grades that she gets. She cares. And I believe that those transition from us going to the ball field and doing the things that we did, it has nothing to do with wins and losses.

Rodney White [00:20:17]:

It has nothing to do with what our team did as a team last year, because I couldn't even tell you what our record was. But does she pack her backpack? Does she treat others kindly when they fail? Does she learn how to pick them up? That's why I love sports, is because it translates to life so much that you have a teammate that struck out, and all of a sudden they're coming back in with tears in their eyes. And your job as a leader, as a teammate, is to pick them up and let them know they're going to be okay. Well, what about in school? What about when they're sitting there and there's somebody sitting by themselves and they're feeling bad? I would hope that she's going to go up and pick them up the same way so that's that transition that, to me, is vital for sports. I don't know. I'm sure there's other ways to be able to teach your kids that. But that's the avenue that I teach, and that's why I teach it, is because I want them to be able to take that and to be good humans. Because in the end of this whole deal, if I raise my kids and they're good people, then I win.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:04]:

It definitely makes a big difference when you get those people that come up to you and tell you things about your children that you didn't know that they have done or that they are doing that reinforce the values, reinforce the things that you have been trying to impress on them over the years. And I know in the past, for me, it just puts a smile on my face when someone comes up to me and says, your child did this. Did you know? And half the time I'm like, no, I didn't. But I'm glad. And I think that that reflects a lot in the work that you do day in and day out as a father.

Rodney White

There's not a better feeling in the world than that. I mean, there's absolutely in my house, we kind of joke around and say that you're guilty until proven innocent. And you get messages, you'll get a Facebook message or you'll get a message from a parent and you're like, your heart drops, right? Because you never know what's coming. And yeah, I mean, when you get those compliments, because I think you nailed it too. I don't know a lot of what my kid does outside of here. I don't know what she's doing at school all day. I don't know how she's treating people at the kitchen table. I can tell you all day long that she's the nicest kid in the world and that we've raised her to be this selfless servant of others and all of that stuff. I say that, but she very well could be a bully at school. I don't know. Until somebody tells me have no idea what's going on.

Rodney White [00:22:31]:

Again, I think there's a lot of parents out there that may be naive about their children and I might be naive about mine, but I think all we can do is the best that we can do and raise our kids the right way. To be kind to other people, to be nice to other people, to work super hard for a goal, whatever that goal might be, and have a goal and just hope for the best. Because the world sucks, man. I mean, the world out here is just social media. And every time we have a rule at home that nobody listens to, and myself included, is don't read the comments, right, because you're going to see negative stuff anywhere you go on social media. So if we just try to just want them to be good people and hope that those messages we get from parents are positive instead of negative ones, because to your point, there is. Not a better feeling in the world.

Christopher Lewis

We always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood five, where I ask you five more questions to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Rodney White

I think so.

Christopher Lewis

In one word, what is fatherhood

Rodney White

Love

Christopher Lewis

When was a time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Rodney White

I don't know that I have ever felt that way, to be honest with you. I'm always chasing it. I'm sure there's times, but it's really, really hard. So honestly, I feel like a failure of a dad and more times than I feel like I'm a good parent. But they always say that if you feel like a bad parent, that's because you're a good parent. And I believe that. And that's just because you're disciplined, you're doing the right thing. So I don't know. I don't know that I've ever truly felt that. It doesn't mean that it's not true. But I'm pretty hard on myself when it comes to something to think about is to go to your own children and ask them that question and see what they say, and they can be your biggest critic or biggest fan, so they might give you some good feedback. Depends on the day.

Christopher Lewis

Speaking of your kids, if I was to go to your daughters and ask them, how would they describe you as a dad?

Rodney White

Passionate and crazy. I think those are the two words they would describe me with, for sure.

Christopher Lewis

Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Rodney White [00:24:17]:

That's a great question. I have a really good friend group, two guys that have children as well, a little younger than me, great people, some of the most amazing people I ever have. And I'd say maybe they do. That was always there for me, too. So I think trying to impress him right, trying to make sure that I'm doing right through his eyes, too, is always important. But I don't know, that's just tough question.

Christopher Lewis

You've shared some of your own experiences, different pieces of advice, things that people can take in and think about for themselves as we finish up today. What's one piece of advice you'd want to give to every dad?

Rodney White [00:24:55]:

Stay patient. And it's the advice that I have to give myself, not everything. Pick your battles there's. Absolutely pick your battles. You can't fix everything. You have to let them fail. And if it's not going to matter five years from now, don't spend more than five minutes on it.

Christopher Lewis

Great points and great thoughts. I really appreciate it. If people want to find out more about you or follow you, where's the best place for them to go? Yeah, they can go to Twitter is probably the best spot.

Rodney White [00:25:18]:

@Rodney1904 on Twitter. It's a lot of sports. A lot of my kids. It's a lot of other kids as well. So I try to do the same thing for other kids in our community, especially the high school kids. Really big passion of mine. So, yeah, I'll make you laugh over there, too, sometimes.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:32]:

Rodney, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for everything that you're doing to raise your kids and to help other dads as well. Thanks for sharing your story and I wish you all the best.

Rodney White

No, I really appreciate the time and reaching out. Thank you.

Christopher Lewis

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out The Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And The Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on Fatherhood.

Christopher Lewis [00:26:07]:

Through our extensive course, library, interactive forum, step by step, roadmaps and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it [email protected]. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes. Today Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them present. Bring your A game because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men get out and be the one to them. Be the best dad you can be. You're the best dad you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

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In this episode of "Dads with Daughters," host Christopher Lewis welcomes Oggy Brewer, a biology teacher and father of four, to discuss the challenges and joys of being a father to daughters. Augie shares his personal journey and insights into building strong relationships with his daughters and fostering their self-esteem.

Oggy's initial surprise came when he thought he was having another son, only to discover he was going to be a father to a daughter. He reflects on the initial panic and uncertainty but emphasizes the importance of adapting and learning as a parent.

One of Oggy's biggest fears as a father of daughters is ensuring their self-esteem remains high. He discusses the delicate balance of being firm, supportive, and uplifting in their lives.

To build unique relationships with each daughter, Oggy emphasizes the significance of being present in their lives, connecting with their interests, and spending quality time with them. Whether it's playing basketball, taking drives, or simply being present, he believes that connecting with his daughters is an ongoing challenge but a crucial one.

Oggy shares memorable experiences with his daughters, including family trips to places like Glacier National Park and Dale Hollow Lake. These trips provide opportunities for bonding and creating lasting memories.

Balancing his role as a biology teacher and a father of four, Oggy discusses the importance of setting boundaries and making a commitment to be present with his family when he's home. He believes that being a positive example and showing hard work can also influence his children positively.

As daughters transition into their teenage years, Oggy acknowledges the changes and challenges in maintaining strong connections. He stresses the importance of continuous effort and being adaptable as a father.

Oggy delves into the concept of being a "girl dad" and highlights the significance of building positive relationships with daughters, fostering their self-esteem, and using powerful, uplifting words.

Augie introduces "MoPo for Life," a concept he developed during the COVID-19 pandemic. MoPo stands for "Max Out Payout," emphasizing the importance of identifying daily purposes and maximizing efforts to achieve them. Oggy has written a book titled "MoPo Max Out Payout: Living the MoPo Life, MoPo the Day," which encourages readers to reflect on their daily lives, set goals, and stay positive.

He also discusses how he challenges his own children to live the MoPo Life by helping them set goals and take actionable steps to achieve them, particularly in their academic pursuits.

Oggy extends the MoPo philosophy to his classroom, encouraging his students to identify their goals for the semester and holding them accountable. He believes that caring for students and helping them achieve their goals creates a positive impact.

Oggy shares his experiences of seeing kids embrace the MoPo message by wearing MoPo wristbands and actively engaging with the philosophy. He plans to expand his efforts by reaching out to sports teams and acting as a motivational speaker to spread the message further.

In conclusion, Oggy Brewer emphasizes the importance of connecting with others, like Christopher Lewis, to expand the reach of the MoPo philosophy and positively impact more lives.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads resources and more to help you be the best dad you can be. Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, you and I are on a journey together. I say this all the time, but it truly is a journey. What you and I are doing to raise our daughters is something that happens day by day, and it's not something that we can always plan for. There's going to be highs, there's going to be lows, there's going to be everything in between.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:47]:

But that being said, there are things that we can do to make it a little bit better. And one of the best ways, one of the greatest things that I would say for all of us to do is to surround us with other men that are doing this. Now, you may not feel comfortable going to that next door neighbor and talking to them about the way that they're being a father, but I'm glad that you're here, because by you being here, you have an opportunity to learn every week, and you have an opportunity to be able to take things that you're learning and incorporate them into your own lives. That's why every week I love having different guests, different guests here with me to share their own experiences in their own journey that they're on in raising their kids. And this week, we got another great guest. Augie Brewer is with us today. Augie is a teacher, a biology teacher, actually, but also does something that we're going to be learning a little bit more about called MoPo for Life, and we're going to talk about that as well. But he's a father of four with two daughters and two sons, so I'm excited to be able to talk to him today for you to get to know him and for us to kind of delve a little bit deeper into his own journey. Oggy, thanks so much for joining us today.

Oggy Brewer [00:01:58]:

Well, thank you for having me. I really appreciate come on. And what you're doing and being able to connect with different guys and dads and how we're raising our daughters. I appreciate being on. So thank you. It's my pleasure. My pleasure.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:14]:

And one of the things that I love to do, first and foremost, I want to turn the clock back in time. Your oldest daughter is 15. I want to go all the way back, all the way back to that first moment when you found out that you're going to be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head? Well, it's funny you asked this question, because my oldest is a boy. I have a son that's 18. And when my wife was pregnant with Olivia, in my eyes, in my head, I really thought we were having another boy, and really all the way up till delivery. And the doctor, when she was delivered, it was by c section. And when she was delivered, the doctor says, looks like a boy, and I'm behind the curtain.

Oggy Brewer [00:02:51]:

And so in my head, this is boy number two. And then those words come out. It's a girl. And I'm telling you, I wasn't sure what to do. I was in a little panic mode of like, oh, my goodness, my world has just changed. And so just trying to understand, okay, I'm going to be a father to a daughter now. And all the emotions and all the things that get stirred up when you have that thought, and obviously not having a playbook for, okay, what am I doing now? So that's the story of when Olivia was born. I love you know, I talked to a lot of dads, and a lot of dads tell me that going into being a father to a daughter, there's some fear there's some fear that goes with that.

Christopher Lewis [00:03:37]:

What would you say has been your biggest fear or fears in raising daughters?

Oggy Brewer

Yeah, I think one fear is just wanting to build up their self esteem and not wanting to be a person that brings that down ever. And so having a fear that maybe something I say or the way I react could bring their self esteem down, and I do not want to do that. So it's that balance of being able to be stern, being able to be encouraging and uplifting them, and also continuing to build that relationship with them, to build up their self esteem. I said you had two daughters, and both of those daughters are very unique individuals, and they have their own personalities, and you have to build different relationships with each of them, that you have to do that with all your kids. Yeah. What have you done to be able to build those unique relationships with each of your daughters? Sure. I believe the first thing is being present, making sure each day they know that I'm present there. And I know we're talking about teenage daughters, and being in a state of a lot of times, they don't make you feel like they want your presence with them all the time, but just because they give that indication doesn't mean that's a free pass to not be present.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:57]:

And so being present every day with them, I'm a man of faith, and I pray with them daily. I think that's important, that they know that someone's praying for them and praying over them and then just connecting with them with the things they enjoy doing. One of my oldest daughters, she enjoys playing basketball, so if I can get out in the driveway and rebound for her, I'm connecting with her that way. My other daughter really enjoys taking drives in the car, and so maybe even though as high as gas prices are. Maybe just getting in the car and taking a drive and spending time with her is a big deal. And connecting with her clearly understand that. My youngest daughter likes driving in the car as well, and she definitely loves being able to get out, listen to music, and just kind of get into some of the back roads. And sometimes we talk, sometimes we just kind of are present.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:51]:

And that happens in teenage years, but at least you're there. And as you said, you're present, you're engaged, and you're showing that you're interested in what they're interested in as well. Now, there are definitely opportunities throughout your kids lives that you have to be able to build memorable experiences, memories that will last a lifetime. What have been some of your most memorable experiences that you've been able to share with your daughters thus far as a dad?

Oggy Brewer

Yeah, I think we try to be strong family, doing things together as a family. And I feel like some of the trips that we have been on as a family have been good time to connect with them. We've taken a trip out west where we went to Glacier National Park and we do some hiking together. Those have been really memorable trips. We also enjoy going to the lake.

Oggy Brewer [00:06:40]:

One of those places is Dale Hollow Lake in Tennessee, and those are two places, definitely the lake, being in the sun, riding on the boat, they really enjoy those things. And anytime we get a chance to do that, it's a blessing to be able to do it. Now, I know you're a teacher, and as a teacher, you have many kids that you are working with, that you're mentoring, that you have. And sometimes they become even more than just students because they become a part of your lives in many different ways. And then you go home and you are a father of four. Talk to me about balance, because being a teacher, there's not a lot of balance, and there is a lot of work that has to be taken home and there's that work that has to get done for the next day of school and so on and so forth. But how do you balance being not only a biology teacher, but how do you balance that with being a father to four and being able to continue to be present in the lives of your kids? So I've been teaching now for 21 years. It's my 21st year, and probably I think it was four years into it was when my son three years into it was when my son was born.

Oggy Brewer [00:07:56]:

And it didn't take long to figure out, like, hey, there's going to have to be some things that change here for you. Like, you can't just bring your work home, put it on the table, and sit and do your work all the time. So I made a commitment probably five years into it, four or five years into it, to my wife, hey, when I come home, I'm going to set my bag down and I'm dad, and I'm going to be present. If there is work that needs to be done, it'll be done once the kids go to bed. And now, as the kids have gotten older, they are in their rooms more on their own, by themselves. The time that we have together is really at the dinner table. And then if there's homework that they need help on, sometimes they will come to dad. But even in that, they're not always coming straight to dad, right? They want to be by themselves and to themselves.

Oggy Brewer [00:08:49]:

Now, I have some moments I can get into my work at times when they are home, and I do think in that they do see, man, dad does work, and dad is doing some things. So now I'm giving an example to them of putting in some hard work, even though, look, when it comes down to it, they've got my first, they're going to look to me first, and I'm going to give them my presence before I get the work in.

Christopher Lewis

As you said, you have two teenage daughters, and teenage years can be a challenge upon themselves. But as you look back at the lives that they have had, the experiences that you've had, what's been the hardest part of being a father to a daughter?

Oggy Brewer

I think just the changes that occur, right? Because when they're little, you pull up to the driveway and they're waiting at the door, waiting to give you hugs, waiting to see you, and then there's an excitement, there a joy there. And then how do you maintain that joy as they keep getting older? If you can bottle that up and keep that going, you're doing something right. But again, the challenge then for me as a dad is as I've gotten older, and now there's not that they're not waiting at the door when I get home, but still connecting with them when I do get home. And maybe it's just a quick like, how's your day? Or did anything bring you joy in your day? We try to use that word joy because I love it. And connecting with them still as they've gotten older, and I feel like that's just a continuous challenge every day.

Oggy Brewer [00:10:22]:

How can I connect with them? And I'm not the best at it. I'm still learning. I'm still growing myself as a dad, but that is a challenge for me every day. I think that that just continues as your kids get older and they move into different phases in their lives. You're going to have to figure it out as you go along. They figure it out as they go along. And you have to be willing to have that grace and to be able to know that you're not going to know everything and you're not going to know how things are going to end up, but that you keep working through it, and that's the only thing you can do, because things are going to change. And I'll agree with you that it is challenging as the kids get older and become more of who they are.

Oggy Brewer [00:11:14]:

But then, yeah, I guess I have to also think back to, okay, what was I like as a teenager as well? And was I present? Did I want to spend time with my parents, too? I think I ended up turning out okay as I got older. So I'm hopeful that as they get older, they'll come back. Well, one thing you say with daughters, or what I've always been told is your daughters are always going to be there to take care of you. They're always going to come back, and they'll take care of dad when that time comes. So we'll see. But I have hope in that. Here's hoping.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:56]:

Now, you and I met over a tweet that you put out there, and one of the things that you put in that tweet was the hashtag girl dad. And that's been around for a bit, was tied back to Kobe Bryant and his daughter and has continued since then to talk about the relationship between a father and daughter and pride with their daughters. As you think of that hashtag, that girl dad. Hashtag, what does being a girl dad mean to you?

Oggy Brewer

I believe it means building a positive relationship with my daughters, trying to help them develop a positive self esteem, and, as we said, just doing something that's connecting with them over and over. You've said self esteem a couple of times, and as a teacher, you see self esteem happening in many different ways, and then you see that in your own daughters. Talk to me about how you see self esteem in girls, your own daughters, girls that you have had in your own classroom manifest itself and what you've learned about what many young women need to be able to have that support and what we can do as fathers to best support that. Well, I believe words are very powerful, and the words that they're hearing has a powerful influence on them. And as many times as you can tell them they're beautiful, they're amazing, meaning it when I say it, not just using those words just to say them, but again, the words they're hearing. And so oftentimes and I see it at school, kids are getting tore down by other kids because of the words that are being used to them or around them. And so, man, what a light you can shine if you're using positive, encouraging words to my daughters or to the kids at school. They're hearing that, and I believe it does. It lifts them up, and it provides a light in their life.

Christopher Lewis:

I mentioned at the beginning that you have something that you're involved in called MoPo Life or MoPo for Life. Talk to me about that. What is MoPo for life? And what are you trying to do to be able to engage fathers, parents, et cetera in this idea?

Oggy Brewer

Yeah, so during the COVID times when we were all locked in our homes, I decided one of the things I wanted to do was write a book. And I've always had that kind of on my bucket list. And this idea I have MoPo for life. MoPo the day. MoPo stands for Max Out payout. And so this is something you can use in whatever avenue you want. If you want it as a father, you want it as a teacher, as a coach, it applies. And the thought process is what's my purpose every day? What's the purpose that would be my payout and how am I maxing out to get that purpose? What are the things I'm doing to do that? So as a father, if my payout is to try to build a positive relationship with my daughters, then my Max Out has to be to be present, to spend time with them and to do things with them. The message MoPo is supposed to be positive. Again, I coined the phrase MoPo the Day and I use it a lot at school as well. And the other thing I've done with it is I've created a 365 day MoPo the Day calendar and it has a MoPo thought with a Bible verse every day and it's supposed to be uplifting.

Oggy Brewer [00:15:29]:

And I try to put a MoPo thought every day out on X to be uplifting to the people that are looking at that. And you did write the book called MoPo Max Out payout living the MoPo Life, MoPo the Day. I love that. Talk to me about for someone that's never read the book, what are some of the biggest takeaways that you want someone to take away from that book itself? One big thing is just looking at your daily life and trying to understand what's my purpose and what am I doing on a daily basis in that purpose? And then again, how am I maxing out to get it? So it's that message, it's also a devotional, it has questions throughout. So it tries to get the reader to think about their life and think about things that are going on. Also has a lot of Bible verses. So to connect with God and your faith and in all this, for me to be a reflection of Jesus as I share this, so it's to spread positivity, but it's know, just like you and I are doing tonight, to connect with as many people as you can. And man, you wouldn't believe how many times I'm somewhere and I just bring up this MoPo thought and all of a sudden I could connect with someone just by sharing this message.

Christopher Lewis [00:16:49]:

Talk to me about this concept and how you have challenged your own kids to live the MoPo Life and to incorporate that philosophy into what they're doing on a daily basis.

Oggy Brewer

Yeah. So with school right now they're in school, that's a big part of their life. So asking them, what is your goals here? To get out of each day, because I see this every day. A lot of kids just come to school because they're supposed to come to school, and there's not a purpose or a desire to be there all the time. And so the goal, again, is to talk to them before school starts. Like, okay, what's your MoPo for the year? What are we trying to accomplish? Maybe not for the year, but for this nine weeks, what are you wanting to do? So maybe it's to turn in all your homework for this semester, and by turning in all your homework, you're giving yourself a better chance to get a better grade. And I don't believe it's all about grades, but I do believe if you're going to be doing it, there's a purpose behind you doing it, and let's get the most out of it, giving them that challenge as they begin school.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:02]:

So that would be one example. I love that example, and I think that it's definitely something that is actionable, something that kids can take and be able to incorporate. How do you incorporate that into your classroom then?

Oggy Brewer

Yeah, so I will share that message, the MoPo message, with my classes, and again, I will give them a paper to fill out and say, what are you trying to accomplish this semester? And tell me how you're going to do it. And then I want to look at it, and I want to hold you accountable. I want to be a person in your life that's going to help you try to get what you want to get. You're writing it down, so it must be something that's on your heart or on your mind. And now, hey, you got somebody in your life that's going to help you try to reach that goal. And I think for a lot of kids, number one, them knowing that you care, if they know you care, then you can get a lot out of them.

Oggy Brewer [00:18:53]:

And number two, if them even knowing that they have people in their life that do care, obviously, being an educator, as long as I have, that's important to me, and that keeps me going. My juices flowing, too, as I teach. So I enjoy making that connection as we start the semester. And what kind of responses have you gotten from kids, your kids, the kids in your school, or others that have read the book? You know what's interesting is I've got these wristbands that say, MoPo the day. So that's another way I can connect with the kids. I share the message, and I hand out wristbands. And what's been cool is seeing the kids come back the next day and the next day, and they're wearing the wristbands. And so I know there is a connection there because they're keeping them on. If they weren't, there wouldn't be. But just knowing that and then also knowing as they've read the book or as they've heard the message, they want to keep coming back and connecting. And so that's just a positive thing each day to see them come in, to see them want to connect. And I know, okay, now we can go deeper, maybe in biology now with my classes and talk about something just because we connected with the MoPo.

Christopher Lewis

You worked on this over COVID, you pushed this out there over COVID. You have expanded it. Now talk to me about where is this philosophy now? Where is this effort now, and where do you see it going in the future?

Oggy Brewer

Yeah. So, number one, I don't always know what direction it's going because it's like, what's next on the plate? For me right now, I believe what's next is just going either to sports teams because I coached basketball for a long time. I've taken a backseat a little bit to that now, but I like going and being a little motivational speaker to different teams. I got a lot of coaching connections, so I can call up a coach, say, hey, on Thursdays. You usually do a motivational talk. You bring somebody in from the community, and I'd love to come share a little bit of this motivation with your team. And so I think for me, at this particular moment, it's trying to connect more with other teams from other schools. And like I said, I don't 100% know what direction it's always going, but just by connecting with people like you, I get the message out even more. So I do appreciate connecting with you tonight.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:30]:

Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Fatherhood Five, where I ask you five more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Oggy Brewer

Yeah.

Christopher Lewis

In one word, what is fatherhood?

Oggy Brewer

Love

Christopher Lewis

When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Oggy Brewer

When I got the elf on the shelf for my daughter.

Christopher Lewis

If I was to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad?

Oggy Brewer

I think they would say outgoing, someone that's graceful and someone that loves them a lot.

Christopher Lewis

Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Oggy Brewer

My dad.

Christopher Lewis

You've given a lot of pieces of advice today, things that you've learned along the way as we're finishing up today. What's one piece of advice you wanted to leave with every dad?

Oggy Brewer

Well, one of the things I was thinking about was when you have sons, you know they're carrying on your name, and they're going to carry that legacy on, and I want my daughters to do the same. I want them to carry the legacy of who I am on. And that doesn't mean they'll always keep my last name when they marry, but just in the way that they do life and the way that they connect with people and their faith. I want them to carry on the Brewer a legacy as all of their life.

Christopher Lewis

Oggy, if people want to find out more about you, about MoPo for Life, where can they go to find out more?

Oggy Brewer

Yeah, I have a website, it's called Mopoforlife.com. And you can get on that website and see what I'm trying to do. You can see my book, you can see the 365 day desk calendar and just look and see the things that are going on with MoPo. And that's MoPo. MoPo the number fourlife.com. Auggie, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:13]:

Thank you for sharing your journey with me and for all that you're doing to encourage not only your own kids, but all kinds of kids in your community to live their best life. And I wish you all the best.

Oggy Brewer

Thank you for having me on. It was fun to connect with you and thanks for the interview.

Christopher Lewis

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out The Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And The Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on Fatherhood.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:58]:

Through our extensive course, library, interactive forum, step by step, roadmaps and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out fatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dadswithdaughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes. Today Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week. All geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time we give the lessons, we make the meals we buy them present and bring your A game because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite glass calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men get out and be the one to now be the best dad you can be you, you're the best that you can be.

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ANNOUNCING FATHERING TOGETHER'S INTEGRATION WITH CITY DADS GROUP

Since it's formation, Fathering Together has sought to collaborate, not compete with other organizations focused on healthy families and connected dads. So we were thrilled when City Dads Group reached out asking to integrate their organization with ours.

Starting in October, our organizations began onboarding their group leaders and figuring out a path forward where Fathering Together expands its virtual communities with the in-person meetups of City Dads Group. By joining forces, Fathering Together will offer support to over 150,000 dads world wide.

That's 150,000 dads across more than 100 countries with in-person groups in the United States, Canada, Kenya, and Malawi. There are 41 official City Dads Groups across the United States and Canada with more on the way!

Here is the full press release.

To find a City Dads Group near you, check out where we have groups!

If you don't see a group in your area, fill out this quick questionnaire to decide if it is right for you!

And if you still have questions, please reach out

Dads With Daughters is part of The Dads Podcast Network, powered by DadsSupportingDads.org

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.