D’Amato & Szabo: Wine Thieves

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We’re kicking off 2023 and season three of the podcast with a look at one of the hottest wine trends down under: cool and fresh red wines from Australia. Once famous, and still well-known for robust, full-bodied, sunshine-filled jammy reds, today there’s serious momentum gathering, and already flowing, for lighter styles of red, fresher, less oaky, with lower alcohol and higher drinkability. So, what is driving this trend? What should we be looking for, and where?

The Thieves look to cool geography, viticultural methods and changing trends for answers with their guests  Mac Forbes and Sam Berketa. Mac Forbes established Mac Forbes Wines in 2004, with the aim of to better understanding and connecting with his native region. He credits the knowledge of the local Indigenous community who have lived and farmed this region for over 50,000 years as having helped him on his journey to become one of the most celebrated producers in the Yarra. Forbes specializes in pinot noir and chardonnay from vineyards across the Yarra Valley. Forbes also makes “village level” cuvées in the Burgundian fashion representing the various sub-regions of the Yarra, as well as the region-wide Yarra Valley offerings. The playground of exploration comes under the Experimental Batch range.

Sam Berketa is head winemaker at Alpha Box & Dice based in the McLaren Vale but has previously worked in the Yarra Valley, the Mornington Peninsula, Germany's Rheinhessen, in Barolo, Italy, as well as in Monterey in California applying his global knowledge to local production . Since its beginning in 2008, AB&D has become a champion of South Australia's alternative – particularly Mediterranean – varieties, exhibiting innovation at every step of the process by bending traditional winemaking norms.

Join John and Sara as they toast to the fresh, innovative reds produced in Australia's cooler reaches.

For extra credit, revisit Episode 9 of Season 2,  on the refreshing white wines of Australia, where we learn about the growing trend for lighter whites as well from guests Louisa Rose of Yalumba and Pewsey Vale (or rather Hill-Smith Family Vineyards as they’re known now), and Con-Greg Grigoriou, winemaker and partner at the Delinquente Wine Co. based in Riverland, as we have a similar discussion with them.

*This episode was produced in partnership with Wine Australia.

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With a broad, international perspective, award-winning author, Decanter columnist and broadcaster, Andrew Jefford shares his thoughts on Ontario Chardonnay after his role as a keynote speaker at this year's i4C (International Cool Climate Celebration) in Niagara, Ontario. Join John & Sara as they listen in to Jefford's consequential speech which connects the dynamic aspects of wine to music. 

Jefford shares his understanding of how a winemaker can bring a sense of place most memorably into being, without the hindsight of a long tradition. In the case of Ontario, Jefford tells us why chardonnay is most apt in clearly revealing a sense of North: "the great brooding icy masses of water; the sticky chaos of moraine and till; the implacable grey of winter; the green frenzy of summer." If a region's uniqueness can be expressed through the instrument of a grape variety, the group discusses the importance of "winemakers who are listening for singularities of landscape and topographical aptitude." But is chardonnay, like the cherished piano, overused and taken for granted? All this and more in this unforgettable episode of The Wine Thieves. 

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The Thieves are  back in Europe to explore the wealth of indigenous grape varieties and stunning stunning old vineyards found in Portugal.  Exactly how this sliver of the Iberian peninsula has been able to safeguard traditions, vineyards and distinctive regional character is what Sara and John are out to learn. 

They have a hunch that large-volume producers have a role to play, and invite three important guests to investigate: Martim Guedes, the Co-CEO of Aveleda (along with Antonio Guedes). Martim’s great-great grandfather Manoel Pedro Guedes founded Quinta da Aveleda in the Minho region 150 years ago, helping the wines of Vinho Verde achieve international recognition . The company has since expanded to the Douro, Bairrada and Algarve, and exports to more than 70 countries.

Luís Almada is an Executive Board Member of Casa Santos Lima, a family owned company that makes wine in Lisboa, Algarve, Alentejo, Vinho Verde and the Douro, exporting 90% of its total production to more than 50 countries on 5 continents.  Casa Santos Lima is It is the largest single producer of Vinho Regional Lisboa (responsible for the production of more than 50% of all the certified wine in the Lisboa region) and DOC Alenquer.

Pedro da Fonseca is  managing partner of Vicente Leite Faria in the Douro Valley, drawing on fruit from estate vineyards as well as hundreds of small growers that together account for over 500 hectares of vineyards.  Born in Portugal but raised in Canada, Pedro studied at York University in Toronto before earning a Master’s degree from Harvard, and he's currently a PhD candidate at the London Metropolitan University. Pedro has a sincere love for wines of his mother country and their proliferation abroad.

 We delve into topics such as the incentivization of small growers by large producers,  land conservation, and the preservation and re-propagation of rare, indigenous grapes. Although other countries such as the Republic of Georgia, Greece, and Italy can also boast many indigenous grapes, Portugal claims the highest density, some 250 varieties across an area six times smaller than France (551,500 km² vs. 92,120 km²).  But many are on the verge of extinction. We’ll find out what large wine companies are doing to help protect and preserve grape varieties that are at risk such as Azal, Codega do Larinho, Sousao, Tinta Grossa, and Jampal, among many others.

Climate change has also affected Portugal harder than many wine regions, pushing Portuguese growers to become global leaders in responding to the climate threat.  You'll find out what environmental initiatives these leading brands have undertaken, and how have these practices have had an impact on the industry at large.

Join John and Sara for an invigorating discussion on the role of leading brands safeguarding land, grapes and traditions in Portugal.

Sponsored by ViniPortugal.

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The Wine Thieves are finally back with a new episode, perfect for the late summer, at least in  the northern hemisphere, in which we share some cool news and information on the white wines of Australia. Many picture Australia as a warm country with beautiful beaches and great surfing,  well suited to heat-loving red grapes like grenache, shiraz and mourvèdre (aka mataro) that  make up the classic GSM blend, and rightfully so.  But this episode looks at some lesser-know, future classic white wines.  John and Sara steer clear of chardonnay, despite the many excellent examples, and concentrate instead on the new wave of eclectic and lively whites emerging across the country. 

Our special guests are Con-Greg Grigoriou, winemaker and partner at the Delinquente Wine Co. based in Riverland, and the legendary Louisa Rose,  head winemaker for Hill-Smith Family Vineyards, which includes includes Pewsey Vale, and, most famously, Yalumba. 

Grigoriou has set Deliquente apart from much of the bulk production the Riverland region is better known for, by pushing boundaries and making non-conformist wines in every sense of the word from  unconventional varieties like arinto, malvasia bianco, fiano, bianco d’alessano, and vermentino. 

Pewsey Vale, on the other hand,  put Eden Valley  on the world map for riesling. At the same time,  Louisa has created an identity for viognier at Yalumba, the first southern hemisphere winery to produce wine from the variety in a style that Rose has been perfecting it for the last twenty years.

Hot or not, wherever you may be listening in the world,  this episode will leave you craving a glass of refreshing Australian white wine.

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In today’s episode:  how cataloguing old vines in South Africa has raised standards for fair employment, and sustainable farming and may just prove the key to solving the problem of the country’s most prevalent vine virus. We continue investigating the topic of old vines, this time from a different perspective, as we look to the Certified Heritage Vineyards of South Africa. We hope you’ve built up an appetite for the subject after last week’s head-turning conversation with the South Australian duo of Dr. Dylan Griggs, the man who wrote the Ph.D. thesis on old vines after an extensive study of the old vines of the Barossa Valley, and Prue Henschke, viticulturist for the renowned Henschke winery, that produces two of the oldest single vineyard wines in Australia today.

We know that the term “old vines” helps to sell wine. Trade and well-informed consumers, tend to believe that old vines = better wine. But is that really true? Listen to last week’s episode to find out more about that topic but, spoiler alert, a more accurate expression would be “old vines make different wines”. The Thieves have come to think that those differences are worth preserving and protecting and thus will be discussing a movement in South Africa whose core mission is to do just that - preserve and protect old vines. Winery members of what is known as the “Old Vine Project” can now put a Certified Heritage Vineyards seal on bottles - the threshold for old is 35 years, which is not quite as arbitrary a number as you might think and the seal includes the date of the original planting of each of these old vineyards – a guarantee of authenticity. 

Our guests on the program include former lawyer-turned-viticulturist Rosa Kruger who is the founder of the small, privately funded group of crusaders known as “The Old Vines Project”. Kruger is the great-great-granddaughter of Paul Kruger, President of South Africa from 1883-1900, and the one for whom the famous Kruger national park is named.  During her travels and tastings around the wine world, Kruger arrived at the realization that old vines not only had advantages on a viticultural level, but also produced better, or at least distinctively, wine. 

Rosa’s colleague and counterpart at the OVP, Andre Morgenthal,  joins the round table. André has lectured at the Cape Wine Academy and has worked several vintages at Domaine Bertagna in Vougeot, Burgundy and made wine on a small Stellenbosch property, Clos du Ciel. In 2001, he joined Wines of South Africa (WOSA) as Communications Manager with a focus on media relations but in 2016 he resigned from WOSA to start his own business, among other ventures assisting Rosa Kruger with the Old Vine Project (OVP). 

Also joining the conversation is Andrew Harris of DGB, one of the largest South African producers and distributors of wine and spirits. DGB has developed and built some of the most successful wine brands in South Africa, including Boschendal, Franschhoek Cellars and Bellingham, as well as new projects through Artisanal Brands such as The Old Road Wine Co. and Fryer’s Cove, which DGB acquired last year. DGB is an important member of the Old Vine Project and manages more old vineyards than any other group in SA.

Find yourself a glass of old vines chenin blanc and join the conversation!

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Today's episode takes a critical look at the fashionable and fascinating subject of old vines, some extremely old, how they got so old, how they perform and the wines they produce. Do they make better wine than young vines?

The Wine Thieves  ask two world experts from South Australia to weigh in:  Prue Henschke, viticulturist for the renowned Henschke winery, including two of Australia’s most iconic ancient vineyards, Hill of Grace and Mount Edelstone, and Dr. Dylan Grigg, author of the doctoral thesis “An investigation into the effect of grapevine age on vine performance, and grape and wine composition”. Grigg studied five shiraz vineyards in the Barossa with genetically related ‘young’ and ‘old’ plantings in close proximity.  The average age difference between these adjacent young and old blocks was an astonishing 97 years, the greatest spread of extreme of vine ages to be subjected to scientific scrutiny. 

And it's a study that couldn't be reproduced elsewhere; South Australia is home to some of the world’s oldest vineyards, including some of the oldest producing vines on the planet.   
And the Barossa Valley in particular is rather unique in the world with large areas of surviving pre-phylloxera vines, some with continual production that dates back 180 years. 

In 2009 the Barossa Valley instituted the  ‘old vine charter’ to register vineyards by age, so that older vines could be both preserved and promoted.  The charter classifies vineyards into 4 age categories that include  Barossa Old Vines , equal to or greater than 35 years of age,  Barossa Survivor Vines, at least 70 years of age,  Barossa Centenarian Vines 100 years old or more, and Barossa Ancestor Vines 125 years old or more.

With a glass of fine shiraz in hand, Join the Wine Thieves for this perspective-changing discussion about what it means to be old. You'll have to suspend your beliefs about old vines and the wines they produce.  The conversation might very well reset your beliefs!

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Who doesn't love Beaujolais? This in-depth episode is all about this picturesque, hilly region and its geological and stylistic diversity. Recent cataloguing of the Beaujolais soils helped bring to light over 300 soil profiles that have been analyzed and described by geologists in tandem with growers, underscoring that diversity (be sure to check out the soil map,  published on  beaujolais.com.)

The Thieves welcome Mee Goddard to the round table, one of the newer voices in Beaujolais, who launched her Domaine in 2013 with three special bottlings of Morgon: Corcelette, Grand Cras, and Côte du Py.  She focuses on “vins de garde”, wines meant to age, blending carbonic and non-carbonic techniques.

Cyril Chirouze is also on the program,  Director of Winemaking and manager of Château des Jacques,  owned by the venerable Maison Louis Jabot. Cyril made wine in the Côte d'Or before making the move to Beaujolais, yielding to the "siren call" of gamay, and the vast, untapped potential of the region. Today Cyril makes wines in the crus of  Morgon and in Moulin-a-Vent.

Mathieu Lapierre is our third star guest at the table. Matthieu's father Marcel Lapierre was a pivotal player in the revival of Beaujolais, one of the "gang of four" who moved towards making wines with a bare minimum of intervention, what are currently often called “natural” wines. Mathieu sets the record straight on what is "traditional" winemaking in the region (spoiler: it's probably not what you think), and explains why gamay languished in northern Burgundy but flourished in the south.

John and Sara also attempt to sort out the status of the lieux-dits in Beaujolais and investigate the difference between a lieu-dit, a climat and a cru at the conclusion of the interview. 

Join us as we dig beneath the multicoloured soils of Beaujolais to reveal the secrets of France's most affable wine. Santé!

This episode was produced in collaboration with the interprofessional association of Beaujolais.

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The Wine Thieves venture out beyond wine (but not too far) to speak with Michelin starred chef-sommelier José González-Solla (Pepe to his friends) of the renowned Casa Solla, near Pontevedra in Galicia.  Once-known for its excellent, traditional, home cooking, when Solla took over from his parents he transformed the business through his inventive style of cooking that's  still firmly focused on the  authentic flavours of Galicia.

Pepe believes that “Galicia is the best place in the world to be a chef!” thanks to the excellent quality of regional ingredients, and he lets us in on a few of his cooking secrets to get the most out of what's available. There is of course the bounty of the rías to draw from, where sweet and saltwater meet on the Spanish coast, which includes the world's best  razor clams, mussels, crab and pulpo (octopus), to name but a few.  But inland, Galicia also has a unique breed of pork , distinctive  from the Iberian pigs prevalent in the rest of Spain, as well as local cattle and native poultry breeds, abundant produce and a wealth of local cheeses made into unique shapes such as the mushroom-shaped cheese known as Cebreiro, the creamy Arzùa-Ulloa, the golden pear-shaped of San Simón da Costa and the cheese known as Tetilla . . . . 

 Solla was among the founders of an association called the Grupo Nove, a 100%-Galician gastronomic movement. Members include a couple dozen Galician chefs, champions of their regional cuisine and innovators in the realm, whose aim is to put Galicia firmly in the world spotlight of cuisine. 

Salivating? Join us as we ask chef Pepe Solla  for tips on cooking at home and how best to enjoy the energetic wines of Rias Baixas.

 

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In Episode 4 in a five-part series on Rias Baixas,  the Wine Thieves speak with winemaker Emilio Rodriguez of the Terras Gauda winery in O Rosal, the largest privately owned winery in Rias Baixas. Emilio has been at Terras Gauda for longer than he can remember, and he is a big fan of some of the other native grapes of the region beyond Albariño, especially caiño blanco.  He speaks about the sweeping changes that occurred in the region, bringing Rias Baixas out of the middle ages of homespun winemaking and into the modern, quality-focused industry it is today. 

O Rosal is in the spotlight, the third most important sub-zone of Rias Baixas in size after the Salnés Valley and Condado do Tea. A coastal region in the southwestern corner of Galicia, bordered by the Minho River and Portugal to the south, Condado do Tea to the east, and the Atlantic Ocean to the west. O Rosal accounts for about 11% of total plantings in Rias Baixas,  and sits in temperature between that of Condado do Tea, the warmest, and Val do Salnés, the coolest.

Albariño is the main variety here, but complementary white varieties loureiro, treixadura, caiño and even godello have a role to play.  Terraced, south-facing vineyards along the north bank of the Minho enjoy excellent sun exposure, maximizing the nearly 2200 sunshine hours per year. Ripeness is nudged to a slightly higher degree than in the Salnés Valley, enabling even late varieties like caiño to deliver. Another distinguishing feature of Rosal is the band of schist bedrock that runs through the region, a variation on the otherwise granite-derived soils in most of the rest of the Rías Baixas D.O. You can expect the white wines of O Rosal to tilt more towards stone fruit flavours and relatively generous and rounded palate.

Grab a glass of your prefered Atlantic white and join John & Sara on their continued journey across the misty terroir of Rias Baixas. 

Salud!

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Rias Baixas episode 3 of a five-part series: redefining Albariño, emerging styles, ageworthy wines, and the Condado do Tea subregion with special guest Isabel Salgado, winemaker at Fillaboa. In this episode we shift our focus over to the Condado do Tea sub-region. Condado de Tea is the second largest sub-region of the five, behind the Salnès Valley. It starts inland from O Rosal about 40 kilometres from the coast along the course of the Minho River into rugged, mountainous territory. The region gets its name from a tributary of the Miño, called the Tea River, which runs through Condado do Tea (the “County of Tea”). As the most inland of the sub-regions, it’s the least Atlantic, although there is no question that all of Rias Baixas can be considered a maritime terroir. But, it's less directly affected by cooling marine breezes making it warmer overall. The soils are quite shallow here, with granite and slate sub-layers quite near the surface, with plenty of alluvial material along with pebbles and sand on top, deposited by both the Tea and the Miño rivers. Albariño is, again, the major grape, but Treixadura is the second variety of choice, which has a firm, steely structure, high acids and apple-y flavours.

Today the Wine Thieves talk with Isabel Salgado, winemaker at the Fillaboa Estate, one of the oldest estates in Galicia and one of the largest in the land registry of Pontevedra. It features an exquisite garden of camellias, olive trees, and magnolias along with 50 hectares of vineyard divided into 12 parcels, mostly south-facing on the north (or right bank) of the Miño River. Isabel shares her thoughts on emerging styles of Albariño, including a wine she makes that spends 6 years ageing on lees before bottling, and experiment to extend the ageability of this variety so often consumed young.

Join Isabella, John and Sara as they explore more unique facets of albariño when grown in this inland region on the pebbly soils left by the Tea and Miño Rivers.

Salud!

Episode sponsored by D.O. Rias Baixas, content exclusively by The Wine Thieves®