What if paying off debt faster isn't actually the goal? In this episode of The Money Healing Club, Rachel sits down with Haley and Justin Brown-Woods, the husband-wife team behind The Price of Avocado Toast, to reframe everything you thought you knew about debt. They discuss why the first step isn’t spreadsheets but childhood patterns, how the “whatever’s left” approach keeps you stuck, and why wealthy people don’t see debt as a moral failing. This conversation will challenge traditional ideas of being “responsible” with debt and may even strengthen your relationship in the process.

💬 "Debt happens to people more than people happen into debt. When folks first meet with us, they're so heavily rooted in this idea of 'I'm bad, I've caused this, and it's all my fault.'"

Key Takeaways:

About Haley & Justin Brown-Woods: Haley and Justin Brown-Woods are Accredited Financial Counselors® and the voices behind Price of Avocado Toast, a platform dedicated to redefining what financial wellness looks like for everyday people. Together, they help individuals and families break the debt cycle, build sustainable money habits, and align their spending with their core values

⏰ EPISODE BREAKDOWN

03:00 | The Shame That Shows Up First Why clients worry you'll judge them as much as they worry about the cost

06:30 | Starting With Story, Not Spreadsheets Why their first session focuses entirely on childhood and life history

21:00 | The Free Pizza That Started It All Unpacking how we all got our first credit cards (and why we had no idea what we were doing)

26:00 | Why "Throw Whatever's Left" Keeps You Stuck How inconsistent debt payments feed the drama instead of solving it

32:00 | Debt Is Morally Neutral (Even the Founding Fathers Knew It) Why bankruptcy is actually the American way and wealthy people leverage debt as a tool

💬 Join the Conversation

What shame language do you use about your debt? Do you say "I'm bad with money" or "I got myself into this mess"? What was your first credit card story? The Money Healing Club podcast wants to hear how debt actually happened TO you: https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast

🎧 Your next listen:

Listen to the No New Things Book Club episode on why we have so much stuff we don’t need.

💫 Visit the Money Healing Club website to start your money healing process!  https://www.moneyhealingclub.com

Full transcript: https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast

🎙️We're a proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective where creators like me are uplifting diverse voices and driving meaningful change.